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    Coronavirus: Time To Prepare Is Running Out

    Once a quarantine happens (voluntary or not), your window to prepare slams shut
    by Adam Taggart

    Monday, February 24, 2020, 5:28 PM

OK…despite more worldwide infections than ever, the WHO has decided to stop using the (technically very accurate) term “pandemic” to describe covid-19, presumably because they don’t want to scare folks.

The CDC is claiming that the US is not seeing “community level” spreading of the virus. But of course it isn’t, because it’s NOT testing at the community level. And only 3 US states currently have the capacity to run such tests, due to faulty kits being provided to the other states.

Then there’s State Department’s botched rescue of US citizens stuck on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, during which poor safety controls allowed 25 more folks to get infected on the flight back to the US.

And these are the authorities we’re depending on??

China, meanwhile, is lowering response levels in several provinces, setting the stage for workers to head back to the factories. BUT…they’ve postponed the National People’s Conference. So, it’s still too serious for the the ‘important’ people to be in public, but the plebes have nothing to worry about??

China is facing a lose-lose decision: maintain their widespread quarantines to contain the virus, but kill their economy? Or send people back to work, and risk infecting millions more?

Today, the markets *finally* started to show concern for the hit global trade is taking from this growing crisis. If the euphoria pushing markets to new highs is dissipating, there is an awful lot of empty space below today’s asset prices compared to their fundamentals-based valuations. Translation = the markets can fall a LOT farther from here.

To reiterate our guidance: the time to prepare — physically and financially — is NOW. As China, Italy, South Korea, Iran and other countries are showing us, a government lockdown happens swiftly, slamming shut your window to act.

Use the time you still have as the precious gift it is, and strengthen your preparations.

Begin by making sure you’re up-to-date on developments with the coronavirus. All of our latest covid-19 video updates, podcasts and articles can be accessed here for free.

And here’s our material on Chris’ and my own preparation efforts that we’ve published for our premium subscribers (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

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117 Comments

  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 5:59pm

    #1
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

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    Tragedy of the Commons

    I wanted to post this high up in the thread. I believe the US is going to be much harder hit by this virus then the EU will. The reason for that is simple; the US has a much more selfish culture then the EU has. No sleight there; to each his own. But it will lead to a situation called Tragedy of the Commons. It’s the same reason why Chris urges you not to hoard.

    While the video below comes from a youtube channel i’ve been following for years for Game Design, it gives a good analogy of how this ancient problem manifests itself in our modern times. And; in the end the mechanics of games are based on those in real life. Good information can be found anywhere.

    Now humans are humans so this situation will play out across the globe. But after watching the above video i think we can all see how that’ll play out in the US.

    My point is to keep in mind what the point is the above video is trying to make. If you create equitable systems of trust, people can and will work together, yielding much better results. But you can’t just expect to happen on it’s own. And that’s where the US and EU differ. People in the US will expect others to do it for them so they can grab the most in such a situation (hoard the most private land AND benefit from the public land).

    EDIT: Just so i’m clear on this; i’m talking about institutionalized behaviours. So, the US doesn’t have national healthcare while europe does (countries of comparable wealth). Europe has better social security, public transport, programs for the homeless, psychiatric care etc etc. Sure, the quality in the US *can* surpass that of inside the EU; which is the arguement for the US’s system. But that quality of care comes with equally high costs; which are non-existant in the EU. The upside then is (was) less taxation in the US; you keep more of your working income, but you also have to pay more in case something happens.

    And it’s that last part that concerns me.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:04pm

    #2

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

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    The State Dept goof who allowed the infected into the US now has a name

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/state-department-employee-in-japan-ignored-president-trumps-orders-and-allowed-americans-with-coronavirus-to-fly-back-to-the-us/

    President Trump is reportedly furious after a State Department underling in Japan ignored the President’s orders and allowed Americans, sick with the coronavirus, to return to the US from Japan.  Ian Brownlee, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Consular Affairs, appears to feel he was right in overriding the President’s directives.

    “The Resistance” in action.

    https://ianbrownlee.wordpress.com/ian-brownlee-professional-background/

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:16pm

    #3
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    80K+ cases now

    https://covid19info.live/

    Confirmed case count has surpassed 80k. This thanks to the new numbers out of south korea, which added 60 overnight. A good thing though; that number breaks the exponential doubling trend. So that’s hopeful. Especially considering how agressively they’re testing. Does nothing for the global exponential trend though.

    However… because of China’s fudged number and their desire to keep the case count low… the Death count is now quickly rising in percentages.

    Currently the CFR’s 3.4%…. and those are now official numbers.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:27pm

    #4
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    Sorry for the spam

    But people are still woefully under-informed as to what is actually happening as well as what they’ll end up going through when this thing actually hits them in the face. It sounds cruel, but the more hopes that are dispelled right now the more people are saved. As we keep saying – the virus isn’t the biggest problem, it is everybody moving at once when everybody realizes the truth at once. The more people that gradually realize the truth, the better.

    So on that note: Update on production in China as measured by traffic congestion, coal consumption and other measures the Chinese government just can’t fabricate:
    https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/it-begins-chinese-business-conditions-crash-most-record

    As much as the CCP says China’s back at work… they really aren’t.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:42pm

    Reply to #1
    kunga

    kunga

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    Sharing resources

    The members of one tribe think they are more worthy than members of a different tribe and deserve to exist.  Hoarding is insurance.  Divisions are by blood, class, religion, etc.  Sociopaths think they are the only worthy ones.  Many around, now days.

    If Europe hadn’t developed its current system after being destroyed in WWII, it would have devolved into anarchy.  Maybe that’s what it takes for people to come together, complete destruction.  Then we just repeat it all again.  Eternal human nature, round and round on the wheel.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:45pm

    Reply to #2
    ao

    ao

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    nice find Tom

    Master Trainer in NLP.  How convenient.  I think someplace back in the archives there was a discussion of how often NLP is used on the American public such as during nation political campaigns.  I watched a small time (compared to national politicians) health professional who lectured on the national circuit rather skillfully use it at one of his seminars.  The class was just mesmerized.  A friend and I who took it together are looking at one another like, “Do these people know what’s going on here?”  The answer: no, they didn’t.  They thought this guy was the greatest thing since sliced bread while we knew his information was mundane and largely plagiarized to boot.  But the truth is often buried by the hype.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:48pm

    #5

    rcmacl

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    Has anyone noticed flu hospitalizations in Hawaii

    https://www.stripes.com/news/us/officials-hawaii-flu-outbreak-complicated-by-virus-fears-1.620044 Apparently Hawaii is having an unusually high number of people hospitalized for influenza this year. Does anyone know if anyone in Hawaii has been tested for coronavirus yet?

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:52pm

    #6
    dreinmund

    dreinmund

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    Face masks but no goggles

    Watching footage from China, South Korea and Italy, I noticed that many people are wearing surgical or N95 masks, but almost nobody has safety glasses / goggles.

    If Covid-19 is really aerosolized, wouldn’t infections spread through  eye contact ? Further, if I understand correctly, surgical masks will prevent droplets, but not necessarily aerosolized spreading.

    Is there any data yet talking about this ?

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 6:58pm

    Reply to #6
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Surgical masks

    It’s true, surgical masks offer very little benefit. I read the manufacturer’s disclosures. What they do best in this case is help you to contain your own coughing and reduce the risk to those around you. But they are just modestly helpful at blocking aerosols that you might encounter in closed spaces. We really do need quality well fitted masks for our own protection.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:06pm

    #7
    ao

    ao

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    did some mask reconnoitering today

    Drove to the opposite side of the county today to an out of the way hardware store in a very lightly populated area.  We live in a sparsely populated, remote, geographically isolated area that tends to lag the nation in trends and discoveries.  New things tend to come here last.  If any place in the country would have masks, this place would.  Got to talking to one fellow there who was halfway savvy.  The store was dead at the time so I got to do about a 45 minute brain download on multiple aspects of American history and geopolitics to him and 3 of their staff.  Their mouths were hanging open by the time I was done and you could see the wheels turning in their minds.  They’d never view the world the same again.  Getting back to the masks, even this out of the way store was cleaned out.  In fact, the savvy guy said they even had a few calls looking for bulk orders.

    Every other place I checked was out of masks.  Finally, I thought of a paint store and found two packs of 3M masks there, the last two.  Fellow at the counter told me he also had gotten a couple of calls from folks looking to make bulk purchases to ship to China.    Whether these folks were Chinese Americans looking to send masks to relatives or American families of missionaries or business people looking to send their loved ones masks in China, I don’t know.

    I do know that if people in our area are buying up masks, the concern about this issue has probably spread to every corner of the country.  Most people I talked to though are fatalistic about it and will take their chances with contracting it.  I don’t get any sense of panic … yet.  Almost none of them, however, are considering the enormous potential supply chain problems and the implications of that situation.  That doesn’t surprise me though since the economic and financial literacy of the average American is, sadly, shockingly low.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:11pm

    #8

    bmaier

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    Hey Chris, my Xray tech wife wanted to know if there is a link for the reddit x-ray post?  FYI you highlighted the heart shadow not pneumonia.

     

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:17pm

    #9
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    Don't ship anything to china.

    Early on my friend from Hong Kong had a friend from Texas ship him some masks. I heard from him today, his package has been stuck in the UK for 15 days now.

    There’s no freight going into China. You might wanna mention that next time you go to a store looking for masks and ask to pre-order the next shipment or something because you can guarantee they will be used locally and not end up rotting in a warehouse somewhere.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:20pm

    Reply to #5

    SagerXX

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    No, the test kits we (Hawai'i) were sent...

    …were defective.  Your tax dollars hard at work.

    No word on when Hawai’i will get functional kits.

    Bear in mind, of course, the local gov doesn’t *want* functional test kits.  If they had them, they might find out there is COVID-19 among the population — popular knowledge of which would chill the lucrative tourist trade.

    VIVA anyway — Sager

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:22pm

    #10
    greendoc

    greendoc

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    that was the heart, not pneumonia

    Chris, maybe you should consult with folks with xray experience before making a diagnosis. I took diagnostic imaging almost 30 years ago and haven’t read an xray since and I knew you where pointing to the shadow of the heart, not consolidation from pneumonia or typical ground glass opacity from coronavirus infection.

     

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:24pm

    #11
    ivah

    ivah

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    Italian outbreak

    Hi Chris, I live in Europe and am an Italian speaker, watching Italian TV quite a lot of time every day.

    I follow your site since the coronavirus outbreak and am very thankful for your useful tips and accurate information that helps me to prepare for the worst. Since the end of January when the first data were known out of China I put them into an exponential curve model and got results of several million of possible infected people at the end of February (I was just using the official numbers and didn’t have any factors available that could accelerate or slow down the process of infection). The guess was pretty accurate, knowing that China is hiding the real numbers because they are totalitarian system that doesn’t care about their own people. We are not March yet and the virus attacked other countries massively.

    You said that Italy will probably contain the virus pretty well because of its advanced health care system. There are just things that shock me when I listen to the Italian official TV news when they talk about the coronavirus outbreak that is going on in their country.

    First, and not unlike the official WHO information, they stress only the washing of the hands. Nobody has heard about the aerosol spread?? Or are they intentionally lying to us, to kill more people?

    Then, especially young people seem to be bored with the overall system lock down, and underestimate the virus, saying that it’s just flu and kills only old people. On the TV there was a young couple sitting outside on a board of a fountain, relaxing and having their masks put up on the top of their heads (!!!). Obviously they never had the basic rules of virus contamination explained.

    As nobody has been prepared for the outbreak, (“it’s just the Chinese who can get the virus”), food disappeared in a day or two from the supermarkets. One month ago Italians were sending masks to China and now they have found themselves in shortage.

    That’s a further reason why so many Italians bought huge quantities of masks and are selling them  ten times more expensive to their fellow citizens. Even not being ashamed of it, admitting it openly on TV. Some groups of criminals even present themselves in the houses of elderly people as the official public health controllers and under the excuse of controlling the virus spread they try to rob people, stealing money and jewelry from their homes.

    These all things happening while hundreds if not thousands of migrants from Africa and Asia are being shipped to Italy daily and being given the refugee status, obviously never ever having been tested on any type of sickness. While a poor Italian student having been blocked in China and unable to return home for a long time because he had just simple fever.

    As the president of Italy stated that he was “surprised” by the sudden outbreak of the virus, I want to see how “surprised” an average, unconscious Italian will be when he sees even younger people drop dead from the coronavirus caused sickness. I say unconscious because I don’t want to be offensive saying stupid, though I see it as stupidity, the lack of interest to read foreign information that is already known in the world.

    At least we will have a test case how bad the pandemics can get (oh my, have I just said the forbidden P word?) and we will be able to compare it with responsible approach like seen in South Korea and Singapore these days.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:29pm

    Reply to #4
    kunga

    kunga

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    The tell for me

    Heh, heh, Dessogames, you said ” …when it hits them in the face…”  Yes, well, I do not really like beards,  many men around here are skraggly and unkempt.  The day I go to town, and there’s suddenly not a whisker in sight, is the day I lock down at home.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:42pm

    Reply to #9
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

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    Mask shortage

    Yes Virginia there really are hoarders, sometimes called ‘parallel merchants’. They will be hawking their valuable masks at a nice premium in the near future.

    I hope you all can get what you need without dealing with ripoff artists.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:51pm

    #12
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

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    A note on North Vietnam

    A Chinese national that I know through work caught me up on what she knows about the pandemic (I refuse to use doublespeak). The state of China conforms a lot with Chris’ info. When I mentioned NV having zero cases, she matter of factly said, ‘Of course not, they all get shot.’

    She also said that China is having a problem with South Koreans trying to get into China. Unlike surfing, it seems no one wants to stay up on this wave.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 7:54pm

    #13
    Shadow5762

    Shadow5762

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    Joined: Mar 09 2016

    Posts: 1

    Southern Hemisphere

    The WHO comments seem to relate to the Northern Hemisphere pretty much. The southern portion of the planet will be entering “their” fall season. Will the Covid-19 act like any other virus in the wintry months in the southern regions? Will it accelerate in intensity?

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 8:19pm

    Reply to #9
    ao

    ao

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    Desogames, sorry but you're incorrect

    There are shipments going into China.  A missionary family from our church received masks we recently sent them.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 8:42pm

    #14

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

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    Some Peak Prosperity Resources For Those New Here

    Welcome the Peak Prosperity those of you who just found this great site.

    Like Chris said, his first alert, just over a month ago caused many of us, who have been following and learn from this site, sometimes for years to sit up and notice.

    Since then Chris, Adam and the community of diverse members have been discussing this virus, its affects and its characteristics to try and get a handle on how we should prepare. Because of this, we have some great resources to help you get prepared.

    Start with this post:

    An ER Doc’s Summary –Written for His Family

    It will give you a quick introduction to the virus.

    Next you are going to want to prepare and buy some supplies. You may be forced by personal decision or perhaps even government edict to self quarantine. Can you live in your home for 14 days without having to leave for food or other needed items? If not, then you need to go out and buy what you need NOW.

    As Chris said in this video, time to prepare is running out.

    This post offers some very good ideas on what you might need and areas you may have forgotten:

    Preparations By Category – Revised 2/14

    Not everyone will realize how critical it is to prepare, and so when it does dawn on them, the seriousness of the crisis, and find empty shelves at grocery stores they will get desperate. They may remember then how they saw you, unloading bags of groceries and supplies then decide to come knocking on your door.

    It is not selfish to want to protect your family, friends and loved ones.

    If you decide to stock up and prepare with purchases of supplies and groceries, do so wisely and with a little bit of discretion. This post explains how to do that:

    Protective Camouflage Is Now Needed – Getting Serious!

    Now this is a good post on what to do if you do get ill. Chris found it on reddit and its a great list:

    Nursing 101: Caring for your loved ones at home

    Along with that gem, there are many other comments filled with information.

    Its hard to go through each of the almost daily video threads here and find what you need to know so we have put together a megathread, one where all the comments about basic subjects are listed so you can find them.

    Here are the three current threads:

    Coronavirus: Home Prep, Deep Pantry & Gardening Megathread

    Coronavirus: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread

    Coronavirus: Sanitation, PPE and Self Quarantine Megathread

    (These threads are current to 2/14, they will be updated further later in the week.)

    Lots of amazing information in those threads. If you are searching for something specific, use your browser’s “Find” option.

    If what you are looking for is not covered in those comments, then please POST A QUESTION to any video thread. The community has a diverse and knowledgeable depth you won’t find anywhere else on the Internet, and they are here to help.

    Best of luck, stay safe.

     

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 8:47pm

    Reply to #13

    dtrammel

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    That's THE Question

    Welcome Shadow to the community

    The WHO comments seem to relate to the Northern Hemisphere pretty much. The southern portion of the planet will be entering “their” fall season. Will the Covid-19 act like any other virus in the wintry months in the southern regions? Will it accelerate in intensity?

    That is the question everyone is wondering about. Does Covid act like other flu viruses and abate in warmer temperatures? If it does then those of you in the Southern Hemisphere are in for some bad times while the North gets some relief. If not then those of you in the Southern Hemisphere are in for some bad times while the North still gets screwed.

    Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 9:01pm

    #15
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    The sword cuts both ways

    If you show up at the hospital with what you feel are cov2019 symptoms, who brings their passport to the local hospital?

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 9:16pm

    #16
    awdriven

    awdriven

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    Longer term - Atlantic Article

    I saw this new article on The Atlantic. I know the community is talking more about right now and the nearer future right now, but the article takes an interesting perspective of looking at a longer timeframe. Curious to hear what people think about the longer term, but don’t want to sidetrack the timely and vital discussion of action that needs to happen in the immediate term. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 9:43pm

    #17
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Burning patients alive?

    Just saw a video of a Chinese woman claiming that while she was hospitalized in Wuhan that other patients near her who were NOT dead had been bundled up and sent for cremation. I can’t find it again but you have probably all seen it anyway.

    It was on a Twitter thread.

    Anyway, we are on our own if hospitals get over run. Not saying they would do that here but I would rather die at home if it ever came to that. Kind of harks back to horror stories from the Dark Ages (according to Monty Python).

    What is wrong with that Chinese system and its people? They are utterly barbaric. Martin Armstrong keeps pumping that the center of the financial world will be over there by 2032.

    God help us.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 9:43pm

    Reply to #13
    Expat2Uruguay

    Expat2Uruguay

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    En Uruguay

    Here in here in Uruguay the weather is already getting brisk. I’ve lived here for four years, and they pass a lot of Cold and Flu here,  mainly because of crowded Transit and the sharing of beverages.  So yes, I do think it’ll accelerate this winter here in Uruguay and Argentina.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 10:07pm

    #18

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

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    I'm Hesitant To Buy In To The Meme Of Barbaric Chinese

    Nairobi (and others out there).

    I’m not ready to buy into the Internet meme that those dastardly Reds are burning people alive. It strikes me as fear speaking and worse, racists fear mongering that vilifies the “Other”. A lot of groups out there want to make the Chinese look bad for political and personal reasons. And some do it by the worst means possible.

    I’m not saying you personally are a racist, please note.

    What I am saying is I know several health care professionals and they got in to the business to help people. I expect those who are Chinese who are doctors and nurses, did the same. These are people standing on the Line, wearing PPE and diapers for 8, 10, sometimes 12 and 14 hour shifts so they can help people. Whose coworkers are getting sick and in some cases dying. Do you think for a moment, those people wouldn’t object at the top of their lungs over somebody saying, “Toss that guy into a body bag we need to burn him now.”

    The Chinese military is not robots. Ask yourself what you would do if ordered to burn a living person alive by your commander? Do you know the Vietnam era slang “frag your officer”? It involved rolling a grenade into your boss’s tent some night. The Chinese Army, I am sure isn’t the happy lapdog willing to commit atrocities that too many of people want us to believe.

    Yes the CCP is reacting like a typical authoritative government to a crisis, covering their collective ass and seeking to maintain their power. That’s to be expected. Still such governments are made up of people just like me and you.

    Lets not spread the worst of conspiracy theories without more proof that a Twitter post you can no longer find.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 10:19pm

    #19

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 698

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    America and the Legal Nightmare of This Virus

    Good overview of the legal powers and the legal pitfalls waiting for the American government in this crisis.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/coronavirus-quarantine-america-could-be-giant-legal-mess/606595/

    It may not be up to the Feds, but to your State and City officials to handle this.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 10:35pm

    Reply to #18
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    sensationalist twitter posts, etc...

    They are anonymous and likely staged.  That is my impression, and I happened to watch the one that had the person saying he observed the attrocity.  A few minutes I will never get back, I fell for the click bait.  Yes, people make stuff up for “clicks” or likes or what have you… or just cuse they have a sick sens of humor

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 10:59pm

    #20

    dtrammel

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    Going To Have A Chat With My Mother Tomorrow

    Most of my relatives long ago learned to roll their eyes when I got to talking about global warming, resource depletion, society collapse and all the other fun things that might bring down our civilization.

    At least my mother has always been cool about it. She actually did what I asked last year after the repo market scare and pulled her accounts out of stocks and rotated them into laddered CDs to keep her money safe in my opinion.

    She doesn’t live near me, but in a near by state. About 6 hours by car.

    She is though an old country farm girl, so she at least understands the idea of getting ready for an emergency. She lives alone, with two dogs in home she owns outright. My grand parents owned land with the mineral rights and a decade back, my mother leased her land for a fraking well. She used the money to take some trips as well as upgrade her home. No she doesn’t live on the land being fraked.

    What she would probably not have done 2-3 weeks ago is go all in on prepping.

    I think we are at the point I need to have “the talk” with her and get her to pull a grand out of her bank for supplies and food.

    I’m leaning towards framing it as an issue of “supply disruption” rather than what I think it is going to be, a wide spread disruption in general governance and social cohesion.

    She’s coming up on her 80th birthday but is physically fit and I don’t think she takes any reoccurring drugs for her health.

    While she lives alone, my younger brother and his wife live in the same town. I’m not that confident he’s up to the task of this crisis. He may end up at her house if things go south. A selling point in getting her to prepare.

    One point for Mom. last year she asked me to buy her a pistol for home defense and had me teach her to shoot. My sister too, who lives here in St Louis.

    I’ll let everyone know how it goes.

    With luck she will listen to me and put away some supplies this week. I may have to mail her a care package though of specific items, rather than trust her to get them herself. I’d rather not take a long weekend and drive down there to set her up myself.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:00pm

    #21
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 288

    1+

    No problem dtrammel.

    I don’t know if its true either but I do not like what I have seen in a hundred other repulsive videos out of that country lately. None of them are any good. But do we know it’s not true? I did find that commentary again. Who knows, maybe it’s Falun Gong propaganda. They all have masks on while talking. I won’t mention it again since it bothers some but I suspect there are elements of chaos taking place over there right now. You can find it yourself if you like .

    #coronavirus China burning sick people alive.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:14pm

    #22

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    4+

    Helpful You Bring It Up

    Thank you for understanding that I’m not lumping you into the muck pile of the Internet, Nairobi. You’ve been a great source of information and I appreciate all you do for the community here.

    Its just there are a lot of people out there who I wonder if their brains are really in their skulls or is that empty hole just filled with cobwebs. I’m constantly amazed at the stuff people pass on to me.

    It seems to me personally, that too many people want to blame a secret shadowy conspiracy when simple government bureaucratic inertia, low level idiots trying to cover their ass and just stuff that naturally happens make alot more sense.

    Did Covid19 get accidentally release from some Chinese lab? I’ve read good arguments from both sides of the question. Does it matter in the short term?

    Whether its a secret plot by legendary Fu Manchu, or simply a fluk of nature, I still need to buy more food, get some masks, talk to my mother tomorrow, and make sure there isn’t any holes in my prep.

    I’ll let the blame be assigned if I survive this. I’m 62 and in the dangerous part of the statistical curve for bad outcomes.

    That reminds me I need to buy some NAC supplements soon.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:28pm

    #23
    Ratsny

    Ratsny

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    Joined: Aug 02 2010

    Posts: 6

    6+

    Finally a warning on NZ nightly news

    Long-term quiet watcher and learner but new subscriber here.

    With enormous numbers of tourists and University students from Asia coming to New Zealand I really don’t believe that we have no cases of Covid 19 here. The official narrative is that we don’t. MSM have been reporting sanitised stories about cases overseas but tonight, 3rd story in (after Harvey Weinstein trial verdict as lead item) we received a warning about a likely global pandemic. But don’t worry it’s not here yet. Some basic advice about symptoms and how to prevent spread, nothing about masks or data regarding transmission. And get this – if you feel sick, go to your doctor! Surely the best advice would be stay home and call your doctor, not risk spreading it.

    I bet there’ll be a run on at the shops tomorrow. I tried to get masks and hand sanitiser several weeks ago and there was none. The pharmacists told me Chinese people buy them all to send to their families. Managed to get some masks from a hardware store but even they had few and I didn’t want to wipe them out so only ended up with 2 masks per family member. On the bright side the elderberry bushes are heavy with ripe berries right now so plenty of free medicine to be had!

    Good luck everyone and thank you Peak Prosperity for all your timely advice.

    P. S. I love reading everyone’s comments especially AKGranny – such a character! Stay safe, keep the grit and the humour up 🙂

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:35pm

    #24

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    8+

    The House Cats Ask

    Some humor…

    cats ask

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:44pm

    Reply to #21
    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 308

    1+

    Propaganda

    >> Who knows, maybe it’s Falun Gong propaganda.

    I’d lay my bets on Hong Kong protestors.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:46pm

    Reply to #22
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

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    Moringa Oliefera

    Given your age dtrammel, you might try this:

    I have not seen any mention of Moringa in the threads and it surprises me. Especially as there is so much discussion about Elderberry.

    Anyway it is very widely used and accessible in East Africa and I could not imagine doing without it. The stuff is packed with nutrition but its key features are that it’s an antioxident, anti–inflammatory, antifungal and antimicrobial plant.

    I have used it for years and in my opinion of all the herbal remedies that get tossed around in the blog world and sometimes become popular for reasons I don’t understand, this one actually works.

    It is frankly a superfood with vitamins and medicinal properties. And the nice part is that there are very few risks to using it except in very specific circumstances where it magnifies the effects of conventional medicines.

    You can read about it if you are curious in the link attached. A lot of research has been done on this plant so it’s well known overseas.

    Who knows, it may even help when the virus hits but I am not a doctor so I would not know about that. I read its grown in the US now so it should be easy to acquire here.

    The one downside I noticed personally is that overuse makes you hyper since it really delivers an energy punch. It’s like getting too much of a good thing if you over consume it.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213453016300362

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 11:51pm

    #25
    waikaalulu2

    waikaalulu2

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2011

    Posts: 2

    4+

    Good site with good advice in the last two posts

    This site from Australia has some good info, especially about preparation in the last two blog posts. Much of it mirrors what PP folks have been saying, but it’s nice to see from virology specialists.

    https://virologydownunder.com/

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:12am

    #26
    Desogames

    Desogames

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    Remdesivir clinical results atleast 2 months away

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052188/coronavirus-south-korea-main-concern-china-reports-508-new-cases

    It notes that remdesivir, which some people consider (and the WHO said) to be the best chance against Covid19 is still undergoing clinical trials in China and the >results< of those trials won’t be available until April 27th.

    So anybody still hoping on a vaccine/cure/treatment, even the best chance is 2 months away, and it used to be a failed drug against Ebola.

    They are also, quite hilariously and ironically, mentioning: “He Zhimin, deputy director of the administration, said Gilead Science – developer of the experimental compound – had applied for eight patents for the drug in China, of which three had been approved. The remainder were still undergoing reviews.”

    AND:
    “He warned that all pharmaceutical companies, including generic drug producers, should respect Gilead’s legitimate rights by obeying patent law. Gilead has applied for patents covering core structure, similar structure and crystal forms of the compound, as well as related manufacturing methods and usage.”

    I would like to point out that any measures pertaining to “respecting copyright law” where explicitly not part of the Phase 1 trade deal because China Didn’t Wanna.

    EDIT: Might as well edit this post lord knows i’ve been spamming enough already. An SCMP article mentions 27 cases in the ICU in italy:
    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3052175/coronavirus-seven-dead-italy-and-more-220-infected-highest-number

    Since we know from the 60k study that 5% of all cases are critical cases, 20×27= 540 cases total. So far SCMP says 220 infected, worldometers says 231 infected, so whichever one it really is it’s half of all the implied cases.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:26am

    Reply to #5
    nigel

    nigel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 15 2009

    Posts: 122

    3+

    Hawaii

    The crazy people on Zero Hedge suggested that Hawaii lacked the ability to test for the Corona Virus, however a google searched showed that the state health laboratory was starting testing the week after the 7th of Feb.

    The one point of concern was the Japanese man who contracted Corona after visiting Hawaii, it isn’t clear exactly, but it’s suspected he got it on Hawaii. (reported on the 14th)

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:53am

    Reply to #1
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Joined: Jan 05 2020

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    It's pretty much Apples to Oranges to compare US and Europe. But there are lessons in perspective for us consider.

    Economist Elinor Ostrom did some essential work on this problem and demonstrated that people will manage their commons well for all if certain elements are present, and will do so even when the commons is dangerously poor in natural resources. As well, when the commons is surpassing rich in resources.  Spain, Switzerland, the Philippines, and many other areas have groups successfully sharing a commons over many generations – going back almost a thousand years in one case!

    This video hits close to them. It’s essential that the group have power to define and adjust the situation within itself, that the cost of monitoring compliance be small (which can include the group members taking turn as monitors, or all being constantly empowered to monitor), that all participate in resource provision (ie, maintenance, improvement), that sanctions be nominal at first but that graduate to stiffer penalties for repeated abuse (recognizing exigent circumstances can cause someone to risk breaking the common agreement for an understandable purpose – eg, crops about to fail results in taking water out of turn to save the crop), and that there be some larger body that provides institutional affirmation of the group’s rules and right to develop its own rules. There are more, 8 in total, but that’s the gist of it.

    When the rules of commons government is imposed form above, by people at a distance who presume one size fits all (for example, Nova Scotia deciding to govern offshore fisheries by one standard, which fails to account for differences in inshore and offshore fish availability and equipment), the incentive to follow the rules declines; that’s exacerbated when the distant governors are susceptible to special arrangements with some commons users – or are perceived to be susceptible. Again, there’s more.

    A commons can be shared when it is clear what resource is in the commons and what is private and what is ungoverned; and who has rights to appropriate from the commons (and therefore also responsibility to provision the commons); and those boundaries and responsibilities are enforced by the group, and not overruled by higher (e.g., state) authorities, but positively affirmed.

    This necessarily means smaller rather than larger groups of individuals. However, as Ostrom notes, various similar groups can coordinate in next level up cooperative associations where representatives of the front line groups meet to discuss shared concerns for provisioning and appropriating a resource common to them all. For example, several groups of farmers drawing water from up and down a river can coordinate along the length of the river to assure those toward the headwaters end don’t appropriate so much water that those at the tail end go waterless in years of drought. These are, in Ostrom’s terms, nested associations. One example where it has worked is in Southern California where several water districts worked together to determine best practices for ground water management for the benefit of farmers and residents living over and drawing from the several ground water pools which, together, need to prevent creeping salinization from the Pacific ocean and need to assure water infiltrates through pools closer to mountains to those further away.

    Perhaps Europe is  better at this for two important reasons. One, they are much older cultures that have had to work out how to survive on their land much longer than we have in the New World where until recently there was always more land over the horizon if we wore out the land we were farming (a major reason for westward expansion was soil destruction on the eastern seaboard). Our culture became one of using up and moving on, with little incentive to manage resources “here” since there was an abundance just “over there”.

    Second is the homogeneity of European societies compared to ours. Where cultures are relatively stable, and change slowly, people share worldviews and can infiltrate new lessons and approaches over time both horizontally (in this generation) and vertically (down generations). The US does not have “cultural cohesion” in that sense. What has united the disparate peoples that make up our population has been the shared opportunity to change one’s destiny by personal initiative – we can all meet on the farm soil or on the factory floor to make a better life for ourselves and our families if we cooperate for that purpose. Thus, “the business of America is business.” That works well until scarcity appears – whether long term prospects, or short term needs. In scarcity, every prudent “businessman” will maximize personal benefit at the expense of others because we’re really not a comprehensive culture, but more of an association of individuals with a shared interest in improving our own lives according to our energy, initiative, and desires.

    If we look to our small, rural communities – or back to settlements in the westward expansion era – we will see that defined groups of people did (and often still do) work as communities to enforce local ordinances to keep the peace. We have not been as good at distinguishing common resource pools from either private resources or unregulated resources (thus the prairie fights over water and grazing land). Still, there are traditions in more rural towns – such as in my Vermont village – of the town gathering in annual meetings to determine who among the residents will oversee the town’s business for the coming year, and to settle shared governance rules to the satisfaction of participants. (It’s a tradition being steadily eroded, here, by the state government which, if Ostrom’s research is correct, will lead to less shared responsibility to achieve the very goals Montpelier is arrogating to itself to accomplish, as the incentive to take responsibility in order to maximize benefit is undercut.)

    Modern notions of anarchism trend along the lines of smaller group organization determined by the participants, and coordinated in nests of higher level cooperation, just as Ostrom outlines. The keys are smaller groups that can meet face to face to work out common norms and to monitor one another’s compliance. It’s basic bottom-up democracy in action, represented at higher levels by representatives of those basic blocks.

    Personally, I don’t think it can be accomplished in our mega-cities. They are too transient, and too diverse. And no one in a city has any responsibility for provisioning the commons that produce their food and process their detritus. That’s left to people living outside city limits who have no control over either the extraction of their resources for the people in the cities, or the dumping of trash and effluviant into their commons. In Europe (at least until the very recent mass immigration of peoples with very different cultural orientations) the homogeneity of culturally-close residents of city, town, and country makes shared values and solution-oriented policies for common resource provision and appropriation much easier to establish and to sustain over time.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 3:16am

    Reply to #2
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 59

    Not likely the same person

    The two links here are to very different professional biographies and geographical areas of operation. I do not think they are the same person.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 3:27am

    Reply to #23
    Dale Hinkley

    Dale Hinkley

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 21 2014

    Posts: 5

    2+

    Another New Zealander.

    I haven’t been able to get supplies. I have masks and gloves that I stocked up several years ago. But can’t get goggles or gowns for if I end up nursing anyone. It seems to me the health department is pretty useless and won’t be interested unless you have a strong association with China. Not sure if anything else or association with another country or anything unknown – even with suspicious symptoms would ever get a person to be tested. I doubt it. When I studied the bird flu years ago, I decided that staying isolated is the only way. Easier said than done – for longer periods anyway. I’m still getting my head around all this, having renewed my membership with PP again and checking out Dr John Campbell too. Is there a NZ group I can join?
    I have a family member, that I doubt would survive if he caught the virus today. Lungs compromised because of an 8 week bronchitis episode that still has not been overcome – with two Doctors so far.  I’ve been wondering if there is a way of getting oxygen for home use? If someone was to need it after getting the virus. I bought a good oximeter today.

    Thanks for any help on this if there’s any out there 🙂

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 3:48am

    #27
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 186

    2+

    testing plans in the US per Dr Fauci

    This video is from last week’s meeting of Council on Foreign relations on Biosecurity and threats to global health.  Dr Fauci says very clearly that the plan is to test people who are negative for flu and present with fever in 5 representative cities.  It is an epidemiologic survey, not testing with the intent to treat.  It says something about how we will be handling it here and it appears they are not looking for cases individually, they just want a statistical measure of probable prevalence (how many people are infected currently).

     

    On a side note the announcements about a second wave of flu in the US will confound the data and interpretation of influenza like illness data.  So they are openly admitting to not looking at individuals this is a study of the population at large.  It is upsetting to me as it seems we are waiting for things to become self evident to fill up before we call it.  Still, Dr Fauci is telling this truth on this one even though I don’t agree with their plan.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 4:53am

    #28
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 69

    Spain

    The Tenerife Islands hotel” H10 Costa Adeje Palace” with about 1000 guests is in lockdown after 2 Italian guests were confirmed with Covig19

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 4:55am

    Reply to #28

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 633

    1+

    Italian person infects Spanish resort

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51627597

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:32am

    #29
    pat the rat

    pat the rat

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    Joined: Nov 01 2011

    Posts: 141

    3+

    cover

    In times like these always remember to cover the basics,boil all water before drinking until proof is other wise.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:41am

    #30

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2161

    11+

    Pandemic is beyond the control of government officials

    If a tornado were to touch down and destroy a school, would we blame Trump?  My mom certainly would:

    “This is what is happening now in Trump’s America!”  (full of outrage).

    Or when a forest fire jumps a fire line in the Sierra Nevada foothills:

    “Governor Newsom fails again!”

    Such blame only makes sense if tornados and forest fires are under the control of the governmental authorities.  But they are not.

    Nor is COVID-19.

    It is my opinion that the pandemic is out of the box.  No government action will stop it.  No testing strategy, public health isolation strategy.  No containment is possible. Such actions might offer a slight rerouting of the vectors of spread, but not stop it.  (Though universal and quick point of care testing could help specific patients and families know what to do.)

    We are caught between the public viewpoints of:

    1)  “That won’t happen here in the USA” (and hence being unwilling to tolerate a transportation lockdown) and

    2) waiting for obvious proof that it IS happening here (say, 15 -20 dead bodies in my community) when transportation lockdown will be far too late to be of benefit.

    So we will move between being far too early and far too late in an instant.

    My ED physicians facebook page is calling on all ED docs to write to the CDC and their congresspersons to urge various things.  The South Korean Crisis Response Coordinator commits suicide as the cases there reach 1,000.  The UK PM assures the public that it has the epidemic under control.  Etc, etc.  All this is based on the belief that governmental authorities have the power to control this.

    ——

    We are on our own.

    Shifting gear psychologically will help us come to grips with what we personally must do, now.  It brings the locus of control into our own households.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:44am

    #31

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1836

    3+

    Shocking anecdotal reports From China

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/china-apocalypse-buddhist-prophecy-locusts/

    …So here is the update on multiple fronts.

    First of all my wife’s family.

    Her father has still not been heard of — now approaching a month. No words can express my wife’s grieving. I am running out of ways to help her cope.

    Her brother and his family are still in their upper floor apartment in a major metro area — not Wuhan. The martial law and lockdown continue. They have not left their apartment in about 3 weeks. Food is delivered to them twice a week. There is no end in sight at this time. The family immediately across the hall was forcibly removed about 3 days ago because one of them was sick. My wife is concerned about their mental health – but so far they are staying healthy.

    Her mother remains under in home quarantine in her apartment in a small city on the Western frontier. She seems to be fully recovered. She is eating rice that she has had piled up in her apartment for just such a reason – and refuses to eat any food that is brought to her door. This city is in the middle of a vast agricultural area. Hogs, cows and chickens are a staple of their economy. My mother-in-law has told us that the “death stench” has permeated her city the past week or so and getting worse daily. She cannot even open her windows. Why? No one is going to work – and no one is taking care of the livestock. No shipments of grain are coming in for the animals — and throughout the land the animals are starving in the pastures. The bodies by the hundreds of thousands are just laying in the sun and rotting. All this while the industrialized part of China is beginning to have severe food shortages. Something in my doctor brain is telling me that having millions of people so close to rotting animals cannot be good. What could possibly go wrong?

    Three days ago, 20% of the workers in my brother-in-law’s city were ordered back to work. The photo I have attached is from American media, showing a transit train during rush hour on that day. Yep, that worked. The people of that big city are in open defiance of the Communist Party in a way that has never happened before. It has been my concern all along that the lies and fraudulent numbers coming out would reap the whirlwind for the Communist government not just from the West — but also from their own people. When exactly are the people going to feel safe going back to work? Who knows?

    Some of the comments I have read on some of my previous posts have been concerned that the tone was too macabre or apocalyptic. Well, snowflakes — that is because things are very macabre and very apocalyptic in China today. The true scope of this disaster is being grossly underplayed in the American media.

    My wife is a PhD graduate of Tshingua University in Beijing. It is an institution that would be similar if our Harvard, Yale, and MIT were all combined into one place. The graduates there are heavily recruited by the Communist Party – and most of them go on to work in the government, the universities, and the law. It is their version of the one-percent elite. My wife belongs to multiple social media groups of Tshingua alumni and current students. Imagine my surprise reading multiple comments repeatedly bashing the Communist government and officials and their handling of this incident. These are future and current Communists and this would have been unthinkable just a few days ago. But the real stunner came last night — another jpg of Chinese text was sent to all current students and alumnus of Tshinghua. I have enclosed the photo…

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:44am

    #32

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1433

    Better late than never, or false hope?

    For what it’s worth, they seem to be trying to make this vaccine happen. I’m not hopeful it will work, or even be in time for most.  – Wendy

    https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccine-human-clinical-trial-ff89108d-87b0-4948-a299-59ee3369eb83.html

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:55am

    Reply to #5
    isjrb029

    isjrb029

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 16 2009

    Posts: 11

    No, the test kits we (Hawai'i) were sent...

    I think you might be onto something here. When Chris talked about all the test kits being bad. Seems kind of strange to me. What are the odds that all though kits were bad.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:19am

    #33
    Pipoe

    Pipoe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 20 2020

    Posts: 2

    2+

    interview with Jennifer Zeng

    Coronavirus Crisis in China: What To Believe? Brave Journalist Lifts Veil of Secrecy

    This interview with Jennifer Zeng by Spiro Skouras has hallmarks of authenticity. Jennifer provides insights into what China has/is doing along with other useful information.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:25am

    #34
    Nordic_Mist

    Nordic_Mist

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 15 2010

    Posts: 9

    Singapore the exception?

    Here it seems we are well last the worst….

     

    https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/five-more-cases-discharged-one-new-case-of-covid-19-infection-confirmed

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:43am

    #35

    westcoastjan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 325

    2+

    Can't fix stupid (CFS)

    An illustrative example of harmful, stupid ignorance:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kelowna-realtor-meme-outrage-china-coronavirus-1.5474296

    No shortage of CFS out there… 🙁

    Jan

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:47am

    Reply to #22
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    2+

    Nairobi, thanks for reminding me about Moringa

    My son was in the Peace Corps in Nepal working on food and economic security and was heavily involved with planting, growing, and harvesting moringa as well as marketing it internationally. Its positive benefits are manifold, as you stated.  I used it for a while and didn’t notice much difference (but my nutrition is already excellent and energy level is high) and then I got a bad batch which turned me off to it.  Quite frankly, I’d forgotten about it but will order some now.  I think it’s an excellent recommendation for nutrition in general and that never hurts in terms of decreasing one’s susceptibility to disease.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:48am

    #36

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    4+

    dtrammel and all

    It is a great idea to talk to your Mom about disruptions and acquiring some extra supplies.  May I suggest you create a simple sheet with bullet points or check-off boxes for her.  When a persons anxiety increases organized thought decreases.  By providing a task and making it fun, your Mom will not only want to please you but will feel a sense of accomplishment as well with less anxiety.

    A while back I created a list for my kids should we all need to leave to go to our out-of-town location.  Knowing stress would be high giving them a “here’s what to take list” would make their preparations easier. One for the kids is helpful too.

    Good luck and keep us posted!

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:11am

    Reply to #34
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 24

    3+

    Singapore

    Singapore’s handling and transparency of this crisis continues to amaze me! The level of detail on their Ministry of Health site is amazing. What an incredible way to make sure people have the info they need without inciting panic or suspicion.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:27am

    #37
    CCBW

    CCBW

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 24 2010

    Posts: 13

    1+

    B. S. from healthline

    Here is the address https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-covid-19
    COVID-19 versus the flu
    The symptoms of COVID-19 are similar to that of the influenza (flu) virus.

    The flu virus is much more common and much more deadly than the 2019 coronavirus.
    At least 6.8 percent of people who developed the flu during the 2019–2020 flu season in the United States have died (as of February 2020), compared to around 2 percentTrusted Source of those diagnosed with the 2019 coronavirus. So there is no problem. what a pile of crapp! talk about bad info. Supposedly the U.S. had 4,600,000 cases of the flu 39,000 were hospitalizations and 2,100 deaths from flu so far this season. How can they get a death rate of 6.8 percent. SO I called them and left a message. Thanks CCBW

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:34am

    Reply to #27

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    1+

    What - WTF

    From VeganDB12  – #27

    “This video is from last week’s meeting of Council on Foreign relations on Biosecurity and threats to global health.  Dr Fauci says very clearly that the plan is to test people who are negative for flu and present with fever in 5 representative cities.  It is an epidemiologic survey, not testing with the intent to treat.  It says something about how we will be handling it here and it appears they are not looking for cases individually, they just want a statistical measure of probable prevalence (how many people are infected currently). See video.”

    The video tells us that five cities will be virus tested and evaluated for statistical purposes and understanding.  But not for treatment purposes. Do you’ll understand that we are a lab rats and they don’t give a shit? Please provide evidence I am wrong!

    Why are test kits in our country inaccurate? Why can’t every citizen who wants a test get one?  Why doesn’t every hospital and clinic have test kits? It’s like those in-charge want the virus to spread.

    Doubtful Granny

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:59am

    Reply to #27
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 186

    2+

    my personal opinion

    AKGrannyWGrit

    My interpretation of this is that, they are trying to avoid the harm caused by quarantine and response to the results of testing.  It is just an opinion.  I am sorry I cannot think of another reason. I don’t think they are trying to finish us off, but it is a decision that makes contact tracing impossible. Perhaps it is for the best I have no idea. I know it’s upsetting but it is what they say.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:09am

    Reply to #32

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 826

    Moderna's vaccine in Phase 1 clinical trials

    Within 90 days of receiving the sequence.  Pretty aggressive.  Hopefully it works.

    We bought MRNA shares back in August when we found out they were the prime supplier for components used by Ancestry and 23 and Me.

    So far so good, but if the clinical trial fails….poof…gone.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/moderna-shares-surge-as-drugmaker-delivers-first-coronavirus-vaccine/ar-BB10lyTp?ocid=FinanceShimLayer

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:15am

    #38
    Jay Pine

    Jay Pine

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 13

    Is it likely CoVid-19 can be caught/passed by animals?

    As this virus came from an animal, either naturally or through lab. experiments, my question is this: How likely is this virus going to be passed to, between and from other mammals from humans? Could this add another level of issue?

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:20am

    #39

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 826

    Levels of levels

    “How likely is this virus going to be passed to, between and from other mammals from humans? Could this add another level of issue?”

    The mammal homo sapiens is already doing a pretty good job of spreading it to other humans.

    The concern (I think) would be if the virus mutated into a more volatile and deadly form and the source animal(s) became a direct vector path.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:30am

    #40

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    Thanks VeganDB12

    It’s interesting that the video doesn’t’ talk about expanding our healthcare to meet a Pandemic head-on. But they did  talk about “mitigation” meaning, containing, quarantining and controlling the population.

    Fourth Turning – full speed ahead!

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:32am

    Reply to #5

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 131

    1+

    Flu testing

    We have identified corona cases here in WI and of course, nobody gets tested, even if they have symptoms.
    However, the local hospital system “says” they ARE testing for flu virus and flu is 10X as active as it was in the last couple of years.
    However, my question then becomes did we test everybody with symptoms for flu virus last year?  If we didn’t that’s a good thing for me here locally.
    The CDC and insurance can prevent doctors from doing covid tests.  They can’t prevent them from doing flu tests.  I think maybe the smartest, most ethical doctors here are doing flu tests so they don’t mistake corona for bad flu.  If so, god bless them.

    Bottom Line:  if you have any symptoms and they won’t test for corona, demand tests for other respiratory viruses.  Here’s some you could demand.
    “Direct antigen tests are routinely available for influenza virus and respiratory syncytial virus (RSV). Some centers offer direct antigen tests for parainfluenza and adenovirus. Increasingly, microarray and real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR) assays are being used to detect rhinovirus in respiratory specimens”

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:39am

    Reply to #18
    PhilH

    PhilH

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 24 2010

    Posts: 155

    Spreading Conspiracy Propoganda

    DTRAMMEL, You’ll appreciate what  I saw on a friends feed.  The reason China was hit so hard, China’s mandatory vaccination allowed their system to respond to “digital signal” contained in chem trail chemicals.  Just thinking out loud here, so chemtrails spread over USA, somehow magically appear in China and somehow this massive undertaken global genocide run by world’s elite is kept a secret that only a few know about?

    The lack of accurate and current information out of so many of the worlds govt’s help spin of these tin foil hat theories.  What was it Chris said, loss of faith in the govt???

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:56am

    #41

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    Love those conspiracy theories!!!!

    Yep, the rich and powerful have conspired to keep their wealth and power since the dawn of civilization!

    “The lack of accurate and current information out of so many of the worlds govt’s help spin of these tin foil hat theories.  What was it Chris said, loss of faith in the govt???”

    Hey remember the Doctor who said washing your hands could stop the spread of disease. Yeah, unseen little critters could spread disease. Haha so crazy, a real dingbat, dododo (twilight zone music) Oh wait, thats true. What we can’t see can hurt us?

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:22am

    #42
    annepan001

    annepan001

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 27 2009

    Posts: 11

    4+

    My family starting to take this seriously ... as it impacts on them through work

    So yesterday we received a delivery of veg from Italy, to supplement what we sell through our veg box scheme in the UK, and wondered how long we’ll be able to keep receiving European supplies now that Italy is becoming locked down.

    Meanwhile, my sister who lives in Germany, and specialises in designing those huge exhibition stands for multinationals, discovered that the Light and Building exhibition in Frankfurt has been cancelled – https://www.eturbonews.com/544181/bombshell-news-from-frankfurt-for-itb-berlin/  … and is worrying about the ITB Berlin which she’s been working on for months…

    Meanwhile, my god-daughter, who is a recruitment specialist in England, discovered that the interviews she had arranged for potential recruits in Italy, were in Codogno, so have all had to be cancelled. All this in one day.

    It’s certainly focussed our minds, and even those in my family who had been putting it off are now starting to prepare their stores!

     

     

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:31am

    Reply to #27

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 131

    2+

    why can't we just get a test?

    Yes to quarantine issues, but more to the point, the tests appear to give false negatives.  So I’m sick and I get a test and no corona.  Sounds good.  However then I find the test didn’t work and after a week friends and family start getting sick.

    That said, give me a test and don’t even tell me the result (assuming these clowns get a test that works).  That’s beyond unethical.  
    Yes, getting good statistics on asymptomatic cases is important, but I want the results to go to individuals (not doctors)  immediately.  We’re beyond where quarantines make sense, but I should have the choice to self-isolate and to tell people who I’ve been in contact with to get tested and self-monitor.

    However, to do this you have to account for the “idiot’ factor.  So I’m totally asymptomatic and get a call that I’m positive.  There are a bunch of people who will immediately take themselves and maybe their entire family to the emergency room to be “fixed”, totally blocking the ability to care for the actually sick.

    Perhaps this would require local walk-in clinics where frightened positive-testing people could go to get advice.  Wouldn’t even need medical staff.  Just someone who could take a temperature, check off symptoms and underlying health problems and explain what to do next.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:40am

    #43
    Desogames

    Desogames

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    2+

    Silver price manipulation

    Another sign that this truely is the end, the silver price is being manipulated like CRAZY.

    Silver futures are being traded like crazy, just look at the volume over the last 5 days. The timescales are comparable.

    There is no logical reason for this amount of volume pushing silver DOWN when Nasdaq futures went from +2% at european open to -1% now going as far as to cracking the 9000 barrier, after a 1k Dow drop day. If anything, you would expect silver and gold to go up.

    Well, there *is* just 1 logical explanation for it: Price Manipulation. If you want to panic buy a lot of gold/silver without making the price spike, you depress it with futures. How does this work? Same way as Naked Short Selling.

    You make a futures contract for march 23 (for example), sell it, make another, sell it, etc until volume depresses the price. Then you buy back the future at a lower price, then destroy it. No gold needs to be mined, or delivered, as long as the contract is voided before it is delivered. You pocked the difference in price on the way down.

    Obviously only the CME group can do this since they control futures contracts. But that’s exactly what they’ve been doing now, for years. Nothing as Opaque as the gold markets. We’ve known for years the paper market has levered the physical market up to the hilt.

    If you don’t understand what’s going on still, just watch The Big Short again. The moment Michael Burry’s on the phone with goldman sachs because they refuse to value his swaps at the correct valuation until the bank has built up a net short position themselves so they don’t explode when the valuation changes. That’s the above picture in a nutshell.

    Remember kids, buy physical. Because the moment the above becomes self-evident truth, just like the virus, things will happen very very quickly.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:45am

    Reply to #27
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 260

    swab tests

    Not my field, but my understanding is that swab tests, which are the type of tests we do to test for flu, strep throat, this SARS-COV2 and others, would need to have the germ in the mucus that is being tested, otherwise, it cant see it.  This new COv virus  is getting “false ” negatives as the person can have the germ multiplying away in inaccessable places, and this can go on for a long time potentially before it is up in the throat or nose.  So, not so easy to just test

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:48am

    #44

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2161

    2+

    Shifting Strategies from Containment to Harm Reduction

    In the last 24 hours several public health officials in Canada and Japan have put forward the view that the horse is out of the barn.  Containment is a hopeless goal.  Too late, too transmissible (with the public acceptance level of travel restrictions).

    The focus is now shifting to

    “minimizing the body count.”

    “We Can’t Stop This”: Japan Rolls Out New ‘Harm Reduction’ Policy Aimed At Limiting Virus-Related Deaths

     

    According to the Washington Postthe “basic premise” of the Japanese plan is that the virus can’t be stopped. That’s right: The Japanese are essentially acknowledging that the thesis proposed by Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch – ie that 70% of the world’s population might someday contract the virus – has at least some legitimacy.

    One senior advisor who spoke with WaPo put it the starkest of terms: We can’t stop it, so the best we can do is keep the body count as low as possible.

    “We shouldn’t have illusions,” said Shigeru Omi, a senior government adviser. “We can’t stop this, but we can try to reduce the speed of expansion and reduce mortality.”

    In keeping with this maxim, hospital space will be reserved for patients with the most serious symptoms, while those with simple colds and fevers have been asked to rest at home. They’re only to contact health authorities if a fever persists for four days. Or two for the elderly, people with chronic diseases or pregnant women.

    And in Canada, (h/t Time2Help) a similar acceptance

    “In a shift from previous messages, Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Theresa Tam acknowledged Monday that Canada may no longer be able to contain and limit the virus if it continues to spread around the world. She said governments, businesses and individuals should prepare for an outbreak or pandemic.

    “We are coming to similar conclusions,” agreed Dr. Vera Etches, the City of Ottawa’s top health officer, on Monday. “It looks like it is going to be more and more difficult to contain this virus and it may well evolve into a pandemic. That would change the efforts to contain every last case and contact.”

    Etches said people can take steps now, at home and at work, to prepare.

    Some of those steps include stocking up on needed prescriptions ahead of time so there is no need to do so during a possible pandemic. She also recommended people stock up on non-perishable food.”

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:49am

    Reply to #43
    SafeinNH1952

    SafeinNH1952

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 5

    Gold / Silver

    I trade gold and silver and noticed the same thing.     It is time to buy —- eventually their manipulation will stall out as buying just takes off.    Thanks to showing us the data.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:01am

    #45

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    1+

    “This new COv virus  is getting “false ” negatives as the person can have the germ multiplying away in inaccessable places, and this can go on for a long time potentially before it is up in the throat or nose.  So, not so easy to just test“

    So we are told.  I just find it hard to believe that we are supposed to have some of the most advanced medical and technological knowledge and equipment in the world but we cant figure out how to create accurate test kits?  Do you believe that?

    “We’re beyond where quarantines make sense, but I should have the choice to self-isolate and to tell people who I’ve been in contact with to get tested and self-monitor.” ………Gosh, should I spend 8 hours on a plane? Oh look, I test positive, maybe not fly after all.

    What you NEVER, ever, ever, ever hear is some one in a high place talk about releaving suffering and helping people. Hmmmm relieving suffering or making profit?

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:03am

    Reply to #44

    westcoastjan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 325

    Canada now adivsing to check for travel advisories

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/travel-coronavirus-champagne-advisories-1.5475003

    On his way into a cabinet meeting this morning in Ottawa, Champagne called the outbreak a “dynamic” situation and urged Canadians with travel plans to take precautions.

    “Make sure you check before you go. That’s the best advice I can give,” he said.

    I hope this gets people to start paying more attention…

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:11am

    Reply to #43
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    2+

    Silver

    Holding precious metals as an investment takes patience. Eight to ten year cycles. It helps to think of your holding as more of an insurance against financial melt down.  Also, it is a store of energy, easier for me to hold two ounces of silver than a barrel of crude.  I started buying silver in the early 2000s for $4.25/oz.  Not much available, some bars and junk. As the price rose, more was dis hoarded. Bought some collectable sterling spoons. Eventually, the metals companies began to produce silver rounds and the supply of Silver Eagle coins increased.  My two favorite metals are copper and silver.  Many of the silver rounds are beautiful.  I always buy a little, mainly for the beauty.  I just completed a small collection of silver dragons of the world.  Silver in bulk is difficult to deal with.  When I started buying, the trader boys ignored it saying, ” You get too much for your money.”  One guy posted he was storing silver rounds in old paint buckets in his garage.  There’s no fever like gold (silver) fever.   Run, Spot, run!

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:39am

    #46
    Roadlesstaken

    Roadlesstaken

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 27 2011

    Posts: 4

    2+

    Treating pneumonia at home

    Is it possible to treat pneumonia at home?  With only 1 million hospital beds in the U.S., if 1) COVID-19 spreads to just 3% of the population (10 million Americans) and 2) the serious complication rate was just 10%, it seems likely that home care will become necessary . . .

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:49am

    #47
    El777

    El777

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 01 2020

    Posts: 9

    4+

    $3000 to test for coronavirus

    Just heard on the news about a young man in Miami, FL. recently returned from China and became ill. He wanted to make sure he wasn’t a risk to other people, so he went in to get  tested. They are charging him $3000!!!

    So yeah, no wonder why we aren’t seeing much increase in cases. CDC won’t test for it, and people can’t afford it even if they want to get tested.

    Profiteering at its finest! We are screwed over by the healthcare system and all of its lobbists day in and day out!

    In the meantime, the virus is having a blast inflecting God knows how many people!!

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 11:16am

    Reply to #46
    Arle

    Arle

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 1

    1+

    maybe yes

    I’m not a medical specialist but after digging through the data I found that the most important thing to treating pneumonia is oxygen, this is a key.

    In my country in case of any outbreak I can forget about real treatment due to very limited amount of equipment for O2 support in hospitals that will be reserved for “important” people, amount of generic beds is irrelevant without treatment so this is real limiting factor and main reasons for very high mortality when hospitals get overloaded..

    Personally I think that oxygen concentrator might be good idea while they are still relatively cheap, the lower ends are between 300-600$

    The cases of corona virus that have full treatment history received between 2 and 5 l/min of oxygen for few days so this is the ballpark for the equipment (example for reference  http://www.yuwell.com/index_en.php/Product/read/id/328 ), and with this you need oximeter for checking the amount of oxygen in blood (like for example https://ihealthlabs.com/fitness-devices/wireless-pulse-oximeter/ ).

    I would love to get some more relevant information from medical personnel, especially about alternatives to Arbidol which is not available in my country… but the ones I know are more than useless… just purely incompetent.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:07pm

    Reply to #46
    Nacho_avg_Joe

    Nacho_avg_Joe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 6

    3+

    At home treatment

    Sorry if this is repeat – for some reason it seems my last post did not go through.

    Dr John Campbell said on his you tube channel  that a lot of these people stuck at home dying would live with Oxygen support.  O2 Concentrator or tank is a good idea IMO.  I bought a concentrator.

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:25pm

    #48
    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 21 2014

    Posts: 53

    1+

    Articles that start with: "WHO says coronavirus outbreak in China has peaked...."

    There is NO WAY they can know that; it’s a BS lie.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/24/who-says-coronavirus-outbreak-in-china-has-peaked-new-cases-in-iran-and-italy-are-deeply-concerning.html?recirc=taboolainternal

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:43pm

    #49

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    1+

    CDC Tells Americans to Start Readying for Outbreak

    CDC Tells Americans to Start Readying for Outbreak

    The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Americans to prepare for a coronavirus outbreak at home that could lead to significant disruptions of daily life, though the warnings were downplayed by the White House. Congress was told that there’s shortage of masks needed for health workers if one occurs.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-cases-top-80-000-020046679.html

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:53pm

    #50
    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    3+

    WHO - It is the money, stupid

    World Health Organization (WHO) has had a difficult time calling Covid-19 outbreak a “pandemic,” this is because it would cause both bonds to trigger, effectively wiping out bondholders.

    Class A bonds were issued in the amount of $225 million, with a payout of 6.9% annually. The bonds default if a pandemic is identified, and deaths reach over 2,500 in one particular country with an additional 20 deaths in another, the prospectus states.

    Class B bonds were issued in the amount of $95 million, with a payout of 11.5% annually but had a much lower trigger level of deaths, versus Class A, hence the high yield.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-25/catastrophe-bonds-signal-coronavirus-nearing-pandemic-status
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-are-425-billion-reasons-why-who-refuses-call-covid-19-outbreak-pandemic

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:58pm

    #51
    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 89

    3+

    Essential Oils, herbs, & minerals

    WOW!  Fantastic coverage by Chris and Adam on corona virus.  Thank you to everyone for all the helpful comments and links.

    Have not read all the threads and am not a paying member,  but thought I would throw out some tips that have helped me in the past.  There are many herbs, minerals and essential oils that can help with the symptoms and boost the immune system.  There are many, many anti viral essential oils such as oregano, thyme, clove, cinnamon, rosemary, pine, peppermint, etc.  Just google it.  When I get sick, I diffuse 4-5 of these essential oils near my bed and get immediate relief from cold/flu symptoms.  They really knock the symptoms down a few notches.

    Also zinc, Vit D, and selenium are antiviral.  Silver is another option.  I personally take angstrom size minerals.  Along with catching some rays, if you catch those rays while touching the earth or water for a good 30 minutes (grounding/earthing), inflammation is measurably reduced – should help with the inflammation that goes along with flu/cold symptoms.  Nothing can really substitute for direct sunshine re: vit d.  On the topic of grounding, there is a great documentary on a little town in Alaska where the citizens took to grounding and many ailments were reduced or eliminated.  Highly recommend watching.  Reduction of inflammation was measurable.  I would imagine there is a lot of inflammation associated with flu/ard.

    Finally, we all know what a fan Chris is of elderberry, other anti viral herbs include  astragulous, cat’s claw, calendula, licorice root, olive leaf, oregano, etc..  Black seed cumin oil tastes terrible but has helped reduce severity of colds/flues.

    Finally, I’ve never seen so many ‘on the ground’ videos from China.  What I’m seeing are folks who are just as unhappy with their government as I am!

    Thanks again for the excellent reporting on the virus.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 1:23pm

    Reply to #45
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 260

    But that is what it IS

    You cannot swab something you cannot make contact with.

    In what way do you think they can test ? What is it they would be testing ?

    Have you had a swab test for Strep throat ?  They literally take a long q-tip like swab and touch the wet area in the throat.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 1:26pm

    #52
    Yeo Man 313

    Yeo Man 313

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 28 2020

    Posts: 10

    1+

    WHO corruption

    excellent video detailing how the WHO is in chinas back pocket

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwFTZawOc9k

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:26pm

    Reply to #24
    Zana Hart

    Zana Hart

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 23 2011

    Posts: 31

    2+

    My cat has her own approach

    When she isn’t sitting on the heater vent or bossing the dogs…

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:30pm

    Reply to #18
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 157

    3+

    Chinese military

    I have no first hand evidence of what the Chinese military is doing or not doing in regards to coronavirus. What I do have first hand knowledge of is the devastation the Chinese military has wrought on Tibet. I won’t go into details it is well documented and easily found online. I did however recently return from Thailand and India. I have a Chinese friend in India who contacted family in China about a month ago. The descriptions were that people suspected of having the virus were locked up and the keys thrown away. Anyone with the virus was executed. She is extending her stay in India to avoid the situation. I for one would not want my life in the hands of the communist party and their military.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:31pm

    Reply to #45
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Rectal swab?

    I am wondering if this would show the virus early.  Prepare to be probed.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:34pm

    #53

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1433

    3+

    Here we go.

     

    The CDC just declared it.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/25/us-health-officials-say-coronavirus-will-likely-cause-a-global-pandemic.html

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:55pm

    Reply to #53
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    2+

    Here we went

    Wow, I guess the message is to panic slowly and quietly.

    “defined playbook”  Ameicans “shouldn’t panic when they see new cases…”  “we have tools to deal with it that are reasonable, titrated, and don’t excessively interfere either with the economy or individual lives, NECESSARILY”.

    Not wishing to be “titrated”, I will continue to panic slowly.  Thank you.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 2:58pm

    #54
    greendoc

    greendoc

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 23 2008

    Posts: 163

    2+

    Mtnhousepermi correct I believe about PCR testing

    Mtnhousepermi: “This new COv virus  is getting “false ” negatives as the person can have the germ multiplying away in inaccessable places, and this can go on for a long time potentially before it is up in the throat or nose.  So, not so easy to just test“

    Grannywit: So we are told.  I just find it hard to believe that we are supposed to have some of the most advanced medical and technological knowledge and equipment in the world but we cant figure out how to create accurate test kits?  Do you believe that?

    This is research on SARS and false negatives/shedding rates. I have not seen any research for these topics and Covid, likely some brave Chinese scientists are working on it.  Lets send them some positive thoughts, it must be hellish over there now.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16652313

    Nasopharyngeal shedding of severe acute respiratory syndrome-associated coronavirus is associated with genetic polymorphisms.

    A high initial or peak severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) load in nasopharyngeal specimens was shown to be associated with a high mortality rate.

    RESULTS: Titers of SARS-CoV shed in nasopharyngeal specimens varied widely, ranging from nondetectable to 10(8) SARS-CoV RNA copies/mL, and they were correlated positively with a high mortality rate (P<.0001, by trend test) and with early death (i.e., death occurring within 2 weeks of the onset of illness) (P=.0015, by trend test). Virus shedding was found to be higher among male patients (P=.0014, by multivariate logistic regression) and among older patients (P=.015, by multivariate logistic regression). Detectable nasopharyngeal shedding of SARS-CoV was associated with polymorphic alleles of interleukins 18, NF kappa B complex all of which are proinflammatory in nature, as well as the procoagulation molecule fibrinogen-like protein 2.

    English: Virus shedding varied from nonexistent (and therefore false negative) to very high (and detectable by PCR). Those who shed large numbers of viral particles had increased mortality. Men and elderly also shed more viral particles as compared to younger or females. There are genetic mutations in immune and inflammation related genes that increased viral shedding. 

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15158632

    Viral shedding patterns of coronavirus in patients with probable severe acute respiratory syndrome

    Positive rates peaked at 6-11 days after onset of illness for nasopharyngeal aspirates (87 of 149 [58%], to 37 of 62 [60%]), and 9-14 days for faeces (15 of 22 [68%], to 26 of 37 [70%]). Overall, peak viral loads were reached at 12-14 days of illness when patients were probably in hospital care, which would explain why hospital workers were prone to infection.

    English: Example: someone who has had a fever for 3-4 days (and thus would be on day 3 or 4 of the illness as infection date is unknown) would not be at peak viral shedding: that occurs two weeks after onset of symptoms. Also if they had the host genetics that minimized shedding they could easily be in the group that had non-detectable titers (and thus a negative test) despite actually being sick.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 3:03pm

    #55
    Vickdenise

    Vickdenise

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 2

    Cure

    Cured from diabetes with Herbal medicine
    I was diagnosed of DIABETES for sometime, I have tried all possible means to get cured but all my effort proved abortive, until a friend of mine introduced me to a herbal doctor from Africa by name Dr Nelson, who prepare herbal medicine to cure all kind of diseases including hepatitis B, DIABETES and (HPV). When I contacted this herbal doctor via his email, he sent me his herbal medicine via courier service, when i received the herbal medicine he gave me step by step instructions on how to apply it, I took it as instructed after 3 weeks I went for check up and my result was negative. I am very grateful to DR Nelson may God bless him and continue to give him wisdom. I will continue sharing this testimonies,You can also Contact him on. [email protected] gmail. com
    or send him a whatsapp text on +2348116522191.
    he has herbal cure for Herpes Virus and outbreaks, Fibroid, cancer, Hepatitis and heart diseases

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 3:08pm

    #56

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    3+

    Eventual Outbreak

    • While COVID-19 is contained in the U.S. so far, CDC officials said earlier Tuesday that the public needs to prepare for an eventual outbreak here.

    According to a client. Her daughter sat next to a sick young lady on a plane and her daughter  got it. Was really sick……… Of course not tested so not counted. Didn’t wind up in the hospital. Could have been anything right. Right.  She/they don’t think so. The young lady she sat next to didn’t speak much english and was obviously not feeling well.

    Travel on a plane, not me but, hey YOU might be lucky.

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 3:22pm

    Reply to #46
    NorthElkhound

    NorthElkhound

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 34

    2+

    pneumonia

    Buy the right antibiotics at a local feed store. Horses, goats, sheep take the same antibiotics we do. You don’t need a prescription.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:07pm

    #57
    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 70

    1+

    Costco (partly) got the message

    Was on a Costco run today, ongoing stocking up.  Had to smile to see that the entire back end of the warehouse store, floor to incredibly-high ceiling, was stacked with toilet paper…

    Also, for folks in Canada – I inquired at Canadian Tire if they had any N95 masks left, and checking their computers they said no.  I went and looked anyway, and there was still a pretty good selection on the rack.  Got what we needed but still lots there.  But I doubt this will last long.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:20pm

    Reply to #46
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 260

    antibiotics do not work on viral pnuemonia

    And, not all are the same, for example, the penicillin I use for goats/ horses is not the same as usually used for people.  And, if they have any at all, that would likely be it which is not even the correct antibiotic for most bacterial infections !  the fancy stuff used against the pneumonia this virus in the hospital is certainly not sold at the feed store.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:32pm

    #58
    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 70

    Questions about oxygen

    Sorry, very ignorant about these things, but if we are coping at home: my husband has asthma, presently inactive, but if he got any viral infection that affected his breathing and the hospitals were overfilled, presumably a concentrated oxygen source might be useful.  I wondered about these oxygen canisters from Amazon:  5 Pack of Original 95% Premium Portable 5L Oxygen cans.  The oxygen concentrators I’ve seen online appear to be fitted for atmospheric clearing rather than individual boosting.

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 5:49pm

    Reply to #58
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 260

    2+

    ask your doctor

    Ask your doctor about what to have at home, the oxygen concentrators are what older family members of mine have used both at home and at nursing homes, but you should find out what type of that to get.  For sure get a fingertip pulse oximeter so you can monitor his oxygen levels and know if he needs the hospital.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:18pm

    Reply to #58

    jturbo68

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 103

    1+

    Oxygen Concentrators

    Can these be purchased without a DR prescription?

     

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:38pm

    Reply to #58
    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 70

    re oximeter

    We have ready access to finger oximeters from our local FD/FR department.  We’re both part of the auxiliary at this stage, retired from the department, and on an island of pop. 350, so that level of access should remain good.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:38pm

    #59

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2161

    7+

    Oxygen Concentrators and BiPAP Machine Rental

    With the encouragement of several posters here (thank you), I am going to see if I can rent an oxygen concentrator for 1 year ($3500 to purchase, $840 to rent) and a BiPAP machine with a full face mask and humidifier.

    I hope (?) that these could function for respiratory support for a mild pneumonia case with mild hypoxemia and increased work of breathing.  But I’m not sure of this.  I’ll see if I can find out tomorrow.  But they are far, far short of a full ICU bed staffed with skilled nurses and respiratory therapists!  Pneumonia often needs IV fluids, blood pressure support medicines IV, frequent lab work, and frequent suctioning of the airway to remove mucous.  None of that will be happening with home treatment.

    We have a DME (durable medical equipment) company near by that can help fit the mask and ensure compatibility.

    Concentrators and BiPAP machines require a doctors prescription.  Since I don’t have lung disease with low oxygen levels, no insurance will pay for this equipment.  So it will be a cash.  Might be needed by me, or a family or loved one.  Will find out tomorrow how this goes.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:45pm

    Reply to #58
    Laura from Texas

    Laura from Texas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 13

    Answer about O2 Concentrators

    Yes, you are supposed to have a doctor’s Rx for a machine.  However, they are readily available on Craig’s List.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:50pm

    Reply to #46
    Laura from Texas

    Laura from Texas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 13

    re: antibiotics do not work on viral pnuemonia

    The nCoV, virus, can make you vulnerable to bacterial pneumonia.  I’m not sure that the nCoV  IS the pneumonia.  Can somebody who knows please chime in?

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:26pm

    #60

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    2+

    Believe Pneumonia Is The General Term

    Laura, medical professions will correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that the term “pneumonia” is the general term for fluid on the lungs. The cause can be viral or bacterial. You might not get pneumonia from Covid, but strep is an opportunistic ba$tard and so could infect your lungs too. That’s why we talked about getting the pneumonia vaccine as a preventative. Antibiotics might help that but not for Covid.

    (Not a doctor nor do I play one on TV)

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:43pm

    Reply to #59
    BillL

    BillL

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    Thanks for that SP...and others.

    Discussing this with wife tonight.  Must have a doc’s prescription for oxygen as well.  You can only get oxygen if you have a medical need for it.  No need, no O2.

    She is in medical field and our son is an RT.  She’s going to consult him for additional options.

    The Medical Industrial Complex…what can I say?

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:06pm

    Reply to #59
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 24

    1+

    Oxygen

    First off, I want to make it clear that I am NOT a medical professional. Yes, it does require a prescription to get “medical oxygen” but the oxygen in the much bigger tanks you get at a welding store are pure oxygen as well and hold a LOT more oxygen.  Yes you are buying a “used” tank pre-filled with oxygen, but in an emergency I personally am not going to be picky.  Just make sure you buy the correct oxygen regulator. The medical tanks have a CGA870 connection but the large tanks for welding (we use ours for gopher extermination – think Caddyshack!) have a CGA540 connection.  I wanted to make sure I purchased a reliable brand so I got a couple from Drive Medical here: https://www.vitalitymedical.com/drive-oxygen-regulator-cga-540.html  I have never purchased from them before but the process was seamless and my order was delivered quickly. No complaints.  I am sure that there are lots of other medical supply stores on the web as well as actual store fronts that sell these same models.  The output is a DISS connection so you need to buy a few christmas tree adapter nipples as well.  https://www.vitalitymedical.com/hudson-rci-nipple-and-nut.html  Don’t forget to buy whatever tubing, masks, and nasal cannulas you need as well.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:09pm

    #61

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Oil In The Compressor At Industrial Sources

    It was my understanding when I used to weld that you couldn’t use industrial air or oxygen for breathing because the compressors are lubricated with oil. This would get into your lungs and be bad. I can think of a couple of work arounds though.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:18pm

    Reply to #61
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 24

    Industrial Oxygen

    That is a really good point.  I will have to research that.  Like I said I am not a medical professional!  😉

    Clear as mud:  https://weldtalk.hobartwelders.com/forum/weld-talk-topic-archive/welding-products/5212-welding-vs-medical-grade-oxygen

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:46pm

    Reply to #14
    ivah

    ivah

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 9

    1+

    Preppers

    @Dtrammel thank you very much for the very exhaustive list of crucial information, last days my insomnia got worse so I had something to read on :-))) and I have not read through all of it yet. I find very useful your advice about pets; I have also adopted a cat and it’s very relaxing to play with him. When humans feel under pressure, animals can help them to calm down and start thinking rationally. 

    I feel very lucky for I had made conserves of elderflower sirup last summer, as the plant grows wild on the boards of forests over here and I used to drink elderflower lemonade when I was little.

     

    I was born in Eastern Europe where every product that you can find for free in the nature is highly appreciated as our countries were impoverished by the soviet occupation. Recently I started to experiment with natural fermentation, and in case of necessity I guess I would succeed to prepare my own fermented vegetables, home made yoghurt, home made fresh cheese, basic vinegar. Also I made a large electronic cookbook collection about home made pasta, drying food, making sausages and curing meats. Drying fruits and herbs is an excellent way to store excess of seasonal products for later consumption. Tried to dry meat too, beef and horse meat stripes, with chili peppers and soya sauce marinade which were quite tasty. 

    Anyway, having stored larger reserves of sugar, natural salt, vinegar and spices is always useful. In the worst case kitchen waste like apple or melon peels can be put to ferment in water with a bit of sugar. Vinegar made in this way is weak in acidity but is an excellent cleaning product to wash floors and kitchen surfaces. It has also mild disinfecting properties and can be useful in case one cannot buy cleaning products.

    I want to study better herbal properties to heal symptoms of pneumonia, heart and kidney troubles. Traditionally herbs were used by our grandmothers to heal these health problems and certainly some herbs can be very useful in time of overall crisis, when normal medicines are either not available or don’t bring the awaited results. I had to do once with tropical fever of a friend in Indonesia that shot the fever up to 41-42ºC (over 105ºF) and I succeeded to put it under control with wet towels before a doctor could arrive who prescribed medication. Another time I was able to help with herbs to ease kidney troubles, so if there is a real need to help ourselves without medical assistance, there are possible steps to take to ease the situation. Only sudden heart troubles scare me, because there is not enough time to do something. 

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:51pm

    Reply to #17
    ivah

    ivah

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 9

    Burning patients alive

    that’s the vid:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et5cUowd25o&feature=share

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:24pm

    Reply to #59
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    @ sand_puppy - your advice please about CPAP

    Hi sand_puppy, please can I ask your advice.

    I have a ResMed S9 CPAP machine.  Will this machine be of any benefit to me in case of contracting Covid-19?  Or might using it do me more harm than good?

    Many thanks indeed for a brief feedback. Much appreciated.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:27pm

    Reply to #61
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 24

    Industrial Oxygen

    I found another good link that seems very logical. Hopefully somebody more expert on this will comment.

    https://survivalblog.com/five-letters-re-welding-oxygen/

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 11:14pm

    #62
    skipr

    skipr

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 09 2016

    Posts: 165

    CPAP, O2, and PNAC

    I have a ResMed 10 CPAP.  I better change the filters more often.  If things get ugly I’ll have to hibernate in the house and stay strapped to it 24/7.  I use the public bus system every day.  There were several people coughing fairly hard yesterday, including a driver.  I better update my will soon.

    As far as oxygen goes, I’ve seen TV ads about an easy to carry tankless system.  Would they be effective?

    Here’s an interesting interview of law professor Francis Boyle about the coronavirus.  He thinks it’s an engineered bioweapon.  It’ll be pretty hard to dismiss him since he authored The Biological Weapons Act.  Then there’s this line out of the Project for a New American Century: “And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:24am

    #63
    Uki78

    Uki78

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 30 2017

    Posts: 6

    Big thank you! to Chris & co.

    Amazing work over the last month. I learned A LOT.
    I am so grateful that I followed you from the beginning and believed in you and your analytical data driven approach.
    as you mentioned in your last video, it’s on everyone’s lips now “a crisis now obvious to all”

    in a funny sarcastic note, you didn’t make the cut on the misinformation list published the other day.

    Coronavirus Misinformation Tracking Center

    big thanks! Love your work.

    ps    Bloomberg and Wikipedia should send you chocolate for life. 😉

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:09am

    Reply to #44
    annepan001

    annepan001

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 27 2009

    Posts: 11

    meanwhile in the UK - "just wash your hands"

    Covid19 has made it onto the Radio Scotland morning chat show. The health expert advised us to just wash our hands. Said it was highly unlikely anyone would catch it from handling money, door handles and other hard surfaces. She said it was spread by droplets – no mention of aerosols. Also recommending 14 days self-isolation if someone has been to an infected region, rather than 27 days which is what the science now suggests.

    There was also a shocking report of a young Scottish teacher working in Wuhan, who was able to leave at the end of January just before total lockdown in his region. He tried contacting UK authorities for advice, and was passed from pillar to post with no useful advice – or screening going through the UK airport – eventually his mum called NHS24 who advised 14 days self isolation. So he stayed in his uncle’s caravan for two weeks, arriving there by public transport. Happily he has shown no signs of infection since then, but how many people DID slip through the wide open net and are now incubating coronavirus masquerading as ‘flu’ in their communities? At last the UK govt has today decided to start testing people with flu symptoms … but I rather suspect this particular cat is well and truly out of the bag!

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:23am

    Reply to #62
    BillL

    BillL

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    CFR, PNAC and many more..."our betters."

    I think it was Granny in one of the previous threads, maybe this one that summed it up quite well…”these ‘people’ (I’ll use her word) don’t give a shit about you.”

    The sooner you realize that, the better prepared you will be…the only ones that your will be able to count on are those in your immediate circle.   Even that will be difficult.

    I’ll repeat this…”No one is coming to save you.”

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:37am

    Reply to #62
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 81

    Engineered Virus, Yes. Bio-Weapon, Not So Much. Population Control, Maybe.

    An accidental escape of an engineered virus, used in research, may look and act like a bio-weapon someone deliberately released.  But, don’t all pathogens act like a weapon?

    Do you think CHINA would be able to recognize the genetic signature of their bio-weapons, and their labs recognize their own handiwork?  I think so.

    The actions of all the world’s governments are not consistent with the advent of bio-warfare, especially the Chinese reaction..as they KNOW the source of the virus they are facing.  Remember, the Chinese reacted almost immediately with unprecedented acts, far in excess of those taken by an uninformed entity…just learning of the pathogen.  This indicates the Chinese had direct knowledge of the threat they faced.

    For example, the Chinese could already have known how SARS-CoV-2 used sub, and non, neutralizing antibodies, to gain access to Fc-Expressing-Cells, along with the receptors ACE2, to cause dangerous reactions to a secondary virus infection, from the study of this coronavirus in their labs.  They would also be familiar with this coronavirus R=0 factor, as well as other virus characteristics.

    Other than to avoid blame for the engineered pathogen we now face, China could have officially placed blame for the virus on any handy political target..and acted accordingly.   And, while this may have been something the Chinese thought about, and even tested a bit, they realized this tactic would be much worse for them, than just shutting up and handing it the best they could.

    The Chinese know what this virus is, and the U.S. & Canada knows what this virus is, too.  Exactly.  It exists in Chinese, Canadian, and U.S. labs…right now, and has existed in them for a few years.  It was developed to research the development of vaccines and nucleotide serums for coronavirus pathogens.

    It escaped from a Chinese lab, which received it from a Canadian lab, and the lab it escaped from has a history of virus escapes.  The Chinese lab is located at GROUND ZERO for this current outbreak.  This is why we are not shooting at each other at this time.

    Although I firmly believe this outbreak is accidental, the result of this outbreak shall mirror the strategies developed for bio-warfare and “a-political” depopulation efforts.  This cannot be avoided and speculation about these things cannot be stopped.  But, neither of which may be true.

    Do not expect ANY vaccine to be available in 18 months, or in 18 years.  The ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) used by this virus to broaden its pathway into the body is only added by vaccines.   We are still waiting for cures to the SARS coronavirus, for example.  It has been Eight YEARS, and counting….and THIS virus is worse.

    BOND MONEY is the reason the WHO and CDC will not call this pandemic a pandemic.  Doing so releases over $400,000,000 from dedicated Bonds, if they do declare an official pandemic, wiping out all bond holder investments.

    Again, it is not our HEALTH these agencies care about…but, money…and the economy.

    My background?  Bio-Warfare.  Chemical Warfare.  And, part of the U.S. fire teams for decontamination resulting from radio active events.

    This virus should make 1918 look like the sniffles.

    Make sure you stock up on toilet paper!

     

     

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