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    Coronavirus: The Dead Speak!

    Pathology results are starting to unveil some of the virus' secrets
    by Adam Taggart

    Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 8:12 PM

Pathology results studying those who have died of covid-19 are starting to unveil some of the virus’ secrets.

First, the damage done to the lungs is far worse than that done anywhere else in the body. And specifically, its excessive clotting in the lungs that appears to be the root cause. Covid-19 causes a coagulation storm that greatly impairs the lungs’ ability to exchange oxygen.

An indicator called the Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (DIC) score is emerging as a key predictor of how fatal a covid-19 case will be. If the patient has a DIC score in excess of 5, then odds of a bad outcome dramatically increase.

Treating covid-19 patients, even those with mild symptoms, with anticoagulants may be part of the standard regimen going forward.

In other news, the Federal Reserve is up to its old tricks of bailing out those who deserve it least while worsening the wealth inequality divide.

And looking at oil, which is now at the staggeringly low price of $20/barrel, Chris predicts hard economic times ahead.

Which makes the Fed’s actions really look like grab for cash before everything goes to hell. A last-ditch effort by the rich to get all they can — a pure wealth transfer from us to them. Maddening…

Stay safe. And don’t forget to work on (or start) your garden!

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96 Comments

  • Tue, Apr 14, 2020 - 9:14pm

    #1
    centroid

    centroid

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    1

    centroid said:

    Is aspirin any good for treating covid19?. on the one hand is it antipyretic but on the other hand thins the blood?

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  • Tue, Apr 14, 2020 - 9:17pm

    #2

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    1

    Paul Craig Roberts

    https://youtu.be/cpi04VA1XQg

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  • Tue, Apr 14, 2020 - 10:00pm

    #3
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Big Bite out of Big Brother

    Chris hits another home run.  Love the section on the economy; you just can't get this kind of analysis from msm.

    After watching the Shadows movie (thank you here2help) and living through the unfolding of recent events,  seems to me we've got to come up with some sort of national boycott and flex our national muscle.

    It's pretty obvious the msm is the main source of the problem along with their compadre's, the cell phone companies.  I say we boycott the telecommunications companies and especially cell phones.

    There's all kinds of reasons to boycott cell phones:  EMF poisoing, 5G poisoning, other radiation poisoning, the constant barrage of confusing information, the addictive nature of the device, the loss of genuine social interaction, the dark web... there's a long list of really good reasons to give up cell phones.

    Keeping a single cell phone for the family to use as needed would take a big bite out of big brother.

     

     

     

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  • Tue, Apr 14, 2020 - 10:31pm

    #4
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

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    Useless investment

    10 years ago I bought my "smart" phone (a "google nexus") but I only use it as phone. The screen is simply too small for real internet purposes... Anyway, with my 2 euro/month smallest possible plan (500 minutes, but for me even too big) nobody get rich of it. When this thing breaks I will buy a 10 dollar GSM and I do not think I'm the only one

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  • Tue, Apr 14, 2020 - 11:22pm

    #5
    Scottie

    Scottie

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    COVID-19 Exponential Growth Inside the Body

    Chris, it seems like the exponential growth (case, case, case, cluster, cluster, boom) of COVID-19 happens internally between cells the same way it spreads externally between humans.  I have read many stories where people have no symptoms at first, then start having symptoms, and then boom, they’re in ICU.  Just an observation.  Thanks so much for all your helpful videos!!

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 12:54am

    #6
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    TUBERCULOSIS Similarities to COVID-19??

    Some of you will remember way back in Feb that a viral expert claimed this disease could be TB-related. Lo and behold, it has now been found that peoples vaccinated for TB seem to have a much lower rate of COVID infection or death.

    Certain countries did this "BCG" vaccine for TB for all children. I was one of them. 

    In what ways does COVID-19 behave like TB?

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/countries-with-mandatory-tuberculosis-vaccinatio-much-less-severely-hit-by-hb-19/

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 1:40am

    #7
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    3

    Blood clots

    https://youtu.be/giyZvits7DU

    Three doctors first American saying "We are not treating the right disease".

    Second Italian saying largely what Chris has outlined - patients dieing from thrombosis - a minithrombosis – ie blood clots due to inflamation - causing the lungs to fill with blood. Patients are drowning in their own blood.

    Third doctor prescribed two drugs of the same type as Azithromycine with good results – No HCQ.

    NB: I have yet to hear Chris answer this question - I don't know why noone has addressed it. If Lupus and Rheumatoide Polyarthritic patients take HCQ in their treatment - surely a statistically significant number of their absence in COVID-19 patients might confirm the usefulness of taking HCQ for this infection.

    This precisely what the second doctor found (Italian) at the 6min28 point of the video.

    Never have they had a patient with the illness Polyarthitis rheumatoide – beause they take HCQ and they develop a cortazone natural an important anti-inflamatory.

     

    Once again - we have been told to NOT take anti-inflamatory pedication, this doctor has now said nonsence.

     

    Re: defunding the WHO in particular regarding Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus - Bill Gate's friend. When I turned on my phone this morning I "randomly got an article (suggested for my interest, in French) :

    Certain states, like Austria, which have announced Tuesday a processus of "deconfinement" (ending the lockdown progressively) while other States like France are registering  their largest number of deaths ...

    Lots of experts underline the danger of doing this too early too rapidly ...

    "The era of mondialisation signifies that the reintroduction and resurgence of COVID-19 will continue." Thank you Tedros. I don't know about you - but I do NOT TAKE KINDLY to someone has led me astray more than once!

    In sum the second doctor said that the patients were dieing from "inflamation".

    6min17 inflamation had destroyed everything - provoking the formation of blood clots. The problem is not from the virus, but from the immunitary reaaction... he then makes the above point.

    Hospitalisations in Italy are reducing in number - and are being treated "a domicile" at home. Treating the infection at helps avoid the risk of provoking thrombosis. It hasn't been easy to see what is happening because the risks of "micro-embolies" are "flues" (blurry).

    Then the Talian doctor quoted by the French man (who is not a doctor) finishes "en beauté" - in beauty - in a strong manner. 7min16

    "The situation has appeared to me very clearly - you can go home, walk outdoors - no further need for a quarantine".

    We are treating the wrong sickness. This is not pneumonia, but an inflamation disorder. Anyone who has suffered a heart-attack or phebitis knows what he is talking about.

     

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 2:05am

    #8
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    How about that

    I have Gold futures down 1.86%

    and SP500 futures down 1.84%

    It is entirely logical that they trade in lockstep.

    PS  No this is not normal - it has been doing this for years - do you hear people talking about it? Manipulation!

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 2:30am

    #9
    French connexion

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    I have a hard time with this

    I am watching Pres. Trump addressing the nation giving all the false information re: WHO and that the US will "defund" the WHO. I am feeling good.

    Then he talks about VENTILATORS. How is it possible that on a grass roots level we could know that ventilators are absolutely USELESS for lungs which are "broken glass" and filled with blood?

    As much as I want to believe that someone wishes to do good - I can't.

    This is Good Cop; Bad Cop.

    cf press conference yesterday

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 3:07am

    #10
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Flatten the curve

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

    Take a look at France and tell me that we need confinement until May 11th.

    Confinement has nothing to do with our safety - this is for a ONE WORLD ORDER and it not for us. It is for the Pigs of Animal Farm. Some Pigs are more equal than others.

     

    We'll see what They do to the markets after Retail Sales.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 3:17am

    #11

    sofistek

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    Part of chloroquine study halted

    If hydrochloroquine is a treatment, it may not always be helpful. Azithromycin was also given in the study: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/health/chloroquine-coronavirus-trump.html

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 3:19am

    #12

    sofistek

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    More evidence of re-infection or re-activation

    South Korea reports more recovered coronavirus patients testing positive again - Reuters

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 3:38am

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    CQ study halted

    sofistek-

    Did you read the article carefully?  With NYT, you have to be very careful these days so you don't inadvertently take in information that could end up killing you.

    It turns out if you give a triple-handful of the more-toxic drug chloroquine (vs the less toxic hydroxychloroquine), you get a lot more side effects.

    Note: the US uses hydroxychloroquine, not chloroquine.  And the dosage is much smaller.

    How many faithful readers of the NYT will just read the headline of the article, then get infected with COVID, go to the hospital, and refuse the much safer hydroxychloroquine treatment that is working much better than "standard of care" in the south of France, and that - as per the last paragraph in this very article - a doctor in Manhattan confirms is also being used in his hospital as well?

    These days, you need to be really careful about the articles you read.  You might end up dead if you don't read them clear to the end, and note which medicines they are talking about, what the dosages are, and which ones we are using here in the US, and what the dosages are here.

    We're back in "WMD In Iraq" territory, with NYT and WAPO once again leading the charge.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 4:52am

    #14

    Beckett Bennett

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    4

    More On Food Failures





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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 4:53am

    #15
    Galene77

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    This, that and the other…

    @centroid

    Most analgesic will have there place for lay – stay at home – treatments, for sure, Ibuprofen too here in Blighty.

    However having watched Chris’s latest (once again excellent) update Vid the phrase..

    “We’re going to need a bigger boat…” comes swiftly to mind.

    The flawed protocol with this HB virus in the UK and dare I say the USA too, is this Govt best practice advice to sit at home for 14days?!? WTF.

    You allow yourself to be overrun by SARS-Cov-2 passively, and once you have developed breathing difficulites then you go to a medic centre for an assessment?

    The only viable anitcogulenat at this stage would be Warfarin via IV? However the damage is done… This is the problem with the current in play strategy, with over 50s and vulnerwable co-morbidity people… just sitting at home, unless this is some form of twisted eugenics protocol?

    @ Sofistek

    Reading the NYT article on Hydroxychloroquine, I can see a possible flaw they are dosing way too high, for too long… as opposed to French practice which notes the arythmia issue.

    They suggest hitting SARS-Cov-2 hard first 24hrs 800mg’s followed by 200 mg twice daily for 7 days with the goal of rapidly achieving therapeutic level while not exceeding potentially toxic levels above 2 mg/L.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O6Cls-Oz2ZAgJuyDbnICEGjMvQPEyM-aaXARUomR9Ww/preview

    What’s key is a rapid positive virus test result, within hours of early onset symptoms… then a knock-out punch to replication gaining hold, followed by a mainatentce dose to let Zinc in and other drugs to kill this SOB.

    (Tragicly,  the battle is done sitting passively with no treatement doing bugger all for two weeks)

    If so it’s at best palliative… and then luck of the gods.

    Note that medics continually exposed to high dose viral loads EU/UK/USA are and will continue to die.

    Why? They don’t get rapid (within hours testing) with a - or + result, its tentatively a death sentence for many.

    The Czech’s have developed a rapid, accurate cheap test.

    https://www.sott.net/article/431774-What-seems-unnatural-about-COVID-19-SARS-CoV-2

    And in Dr. Pekova’s (molecular biologist) view… this is a jack’d/engineered horror.

    You have said that SARS CoV-2 has certain genetic sequences that are not natural. Do you stand firm on your claim?

    Dr. Pekova: Yes, I stand behind my claim. RNA viruses mutate and their genome is unstable. They have high rates of mutations, and they are not very accurate in replication.

    The virus RNA usually mutates in areas that are responsible for protein production used as building blocks for "the body" of the virus. This part fulfils certain functions of the virus, such as cell penetration and interacting with the infected cell.

    Then there is the regulatory area of the virus genome, it can be seen as the command centre that governs virus replication.

    This part of SARS CoV-2 (COVID-19) genome appears unusually messy, as if it was severely altered.

    I have a hard time believing that such intensive restructuring, insertions and deletions of the virus RNA code, would happen in nature and that the virus would survive such severe restructuring.

    The regulatory portion of the virus genome usually has a low mutation rate. SARS CoV-2 (COVID-19) has an atypical degree of mutation, which is usually done by genetic modification.

    Full vid here:





    Finally, why you cannot trust Uncle Bill and his hold over the WHO.




    Keep sharing peeps.

    Keep safe

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 5:09am

    #16
    Galene77

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    Postscript: South Korea

    If there you cannot/will not avoid smartphone Covid-19 tracking apps and the BIG BROTHER surveillance system that comes with it.

    Once you’ve logged on registered for a virus test, you are then being monitored/watched/tracked via GPS. You have to have the phone on at all the times 24/7. Administrators do keep in touch, and are flagged if anyone drops off the matrix.

    If there is a drop in your signal and your whereabouts disappear due to your switching off… do this more than twice and you get a Police visit and fine.

    YOU WILL COMPLY

    If not all travel movement rights rescinded.

    Coming to your country as part of the lockdown release package  in three, two…. one

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 5:20am

    #17
    CCBW

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    are we using ventilators the right way

    This a video from a doctor in new york city who is clearly at his wits end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o&feature=emb_title Now I'm no doctor but I'm a certifed scuba diver for 50 years now and back then you had to know every thing to get certified not like today. Now what dose that have to do with ventilators well if your at 30 feet on suba take a breath hold it and head for the serfice you will experience an air embolism and probbly die the air will expand in your lungs and tare a hole in the lung and air will enter the blood strem then you will die. So if the ventilators are set to a little too much pressure perhaps their causing small fishers in the lung tissue. Is it possable this is contributing to the blood clotting in the lungs. Here is an interview with Dr.Cameron he may have paid a price for his openness after all we all have to remember our place. Ya right
    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928156
    CCBW

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 5:22am

    #18

    sand_puppy

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    Negative Results from HCQ in a French Study

    The topic came up in a facebook discussion group where one academic pointed out a recently released review of the course of hospitalized patients in France with respect to outcome, and whether they were given HCQ.

    In these very sick patients, where treatment was started later in the illness, the used of HCQ didn't show any clinical benefit.
    No evidence of clinical efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 infection with oxygen requirement: results of a study using routinely collected data to emulate a target trial
    ------

    Edit at 9;55 am

    After thinking about this more, I don't believe that there are ANY anti-infectives that would be effective if the start was delayed for 5-7 days and the cardiopulmonary disturbances of full-on sepsis were clearly present.  The whole goal of hospital sepsis protocols is to get antibiotic started within 1 hour of the diagnosis.

    So I don't believe there is any useful information here.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 5:58am

    #19
    French connexion

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    This is for you JimH and Sand Puppy

    The palpable disappointment on the part of Gates, Fauci, the media and the Democrats at the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine is all the indictment of these people you need to finally let the scales fall and see them for what they are.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/luongo-rages-firefauci-should-be-rallying-cry-generation

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 6:05am

    #20
    albacore

    albacore

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    Data point suggesting a lot of ‘of’ rather than ‘with’

    Useful chart. Would be good to see it for other countries. Anybody have that?

    Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) Tweeted: Here is the story of today's @ONS mortality statistics in a single chart. The worst week for UK mortality (all causes) since records began.
    The blue area shows the minimum and maximum mortality each week since 2010.
    The red line shows you this year so far. https://t.co/j71W00tCVy

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 7:10am

    Mots

    Mots

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    hydroxychloroquine failed to help patients administered within 48hr of admission

    Sandman: thank you very much for this French research pre-print.  This is not peer reviewed yet but seems very well written with a large sample number (84 given hydroxychloroquine and  97 not given).
    I note that azithromycin apparently was not used.

    The word "zinc" is completely missing from this paper.

    I expect 24 hour wall to wall coverage of this paper by CNN.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 7:13am

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: Negative Results from HCQ in a French Study

    Yeah, about those "negative results."

    A quick download of the PDF and then a  keyword search returns this:

    Isn't that odd?  Not only did they not use zinc, it was never even discussed to explain why they didn't or how future studies might include it.

    I equate this to running a critical test on the ability of a refrigerator to cool things but - so as not to confound the test - leaving it unplugged.

    Wouldn't you know it?  Refrigerators are not effective at cooling things down!

    Now why would these researchers not only leave zinc out but not even explain why?  Or even mention it?

    Whatever their motivations it wasn't science that led the way.  The ionophore qualities of HCQ are one of its key features.  This is a known, established mechanism, as is the role of zinc in helping to fight viral RNA synthesis inside the cell.

    Even if they didn't want to include zinc on pass #1, they should have measured zinc levels in the blood of the subjects.  Did they do this?  Nope.

    Again, why not?  It's data.  Data is what you collect during a clinical trail.  Certainly not every possible bit of data, but always the relevant parameters.  Always.

    I find this beyond weird opening up a line of thinking that it was an intentional exclusion of zinc.  If/when it is later proven that zinc is an essential factor, and that this was well known prior to this "study" I sincerely hope the live-human testers involved in this publication face consequences for failing to obtain proper informed consent before running an experimental trial designed to fail.

    Is that harsh?  No. Why?  Because zinc has both a very wide safety margin (including it wouldn't have harmed anyone) and a known anti-viral role in combination with chloroquine.   Patients should have been so informed and given a choice.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:35am

    loriniv

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    blood clotting

    I am a critical care registered nurse with 40 years experience.  It is clear you don't understand DIC.  It is the sequela in any hypoxic shock.  CO2 is acidic and it is the PH change that triggers the clotting cascade .  This is not unique to this disease and not caused by the virus attacking the blood.  It is true that anticoagulation is the treatment upon onset, but PH control is the preventative.  People should not take Asprin when they do not have coagulation pathology.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:37am

    albacore

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    Not using zinc is not so odd in France

    I’m getting a bit bemused by this. Surely we need studies with zinc and without it to test which is effective, so why knock this one?

    Particularly since Dr Raoult, who has driven the debate in France, doesnt have zinc in his protocol.

    This to me is one of the biggest indicators Of the politicisation: people saying on the one hand you must use zinc, but on the other hand touting Dr Raoult’s results, when he doesn’t.
    We are now getting some documented studies coming through, and I’m dismayed to see Sandpuppy and Chris saying “nothing to see here”.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:40am

    davefairtex

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    wanted: a real study

    From memory, Raoult makes a big deal about starting treatment as early as possible.

    "Everyone  knows" you have to start in with the anti virals ASAP.  That's what they say with Tamiflu, right?  Only useful if used within the first day.  That's stuck in my brain from somewhere.  Google says: that's been around since 2000.

    Nutley, NJ -- September 18, 2000

    Hoffmann-La Roche Inc. today announced new data on its influenza treatment Tamiflu™ (oseltamivir phosphate) that shows the drug’s benefits are significantly improved when taken earlier in the course of the disease. Tamiflu, taken within the first 12 hours of symptom onset, reduced the total duration of illness by greater than three days compared to treatment at 48 hours. The study data, entitled IMPACT, was released today at the annual Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy (ICAAC) in Toronto, Canada.

    https://www.gilead.com/news-and-press/press-room/press-releases/2000/9/new-tamiflu-data-shows-early-treatment-optimizes-benefit-for-flu-sufferers

    Presumably, if they wanted to do a real study to replicate or disprove Raoult's results, they'd actually give Raoult's treatment, and give it immediately upon receiving a positive test, and see how many got worse vs were cleared of the virus, just like he does.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:40am

    loriniv

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    Aspirin

    No, the clotting cascade happens after hypoxia.  Aspirin prior to becoming critically ill will not help.  The proper Rx  for hypercoagulability is Heparin.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:45am

    Rajkumarijay

    Rajkumarijay

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    coagulation

    What about warfarin?

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:50am

    nordicjack

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    I agree dave- about timming

    I agree , this study would have failed, zinc or not. We know the doctors seeing efficacy are using it early.  This would make sense with the zinc connection.   Zinc reduces viral replication.  So the action is to slow the replication long enough for the immune system to mount a defense.    After all the cells are infected with virus,  zinc or HQC wil do little or nothing.  I think even the drs that believe in its use and efficacy will tell you it wont do jack for severe hospitalized patients.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:37am

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: blood clotting

    I am a critical care registered nurse with 40 years experience.  It is clear you don’t understand DIC.  It is the sequela in any hypoxic shock.  CO2 is acidic and it is the PH change that triggers the clotting cascade .  This is not unique to this disease and not caused by the virus attacking the blood.  It is true that anticoagulation is the treatment upon onset, but PH control is the preventative.

    I'm sure you know a ton more about DIC that I ever will.  However, when researching it, it seemed to me there were many possible causes and triggers.

    You are making the assumption that it is the hypoxic shock that triggers it.  But what if it's the opposite?  What if it's the coagulation that triggers the hypoxic shock?

    Can you rule that out?  After all, it's not like DIC is triggered by any one thing:

    Seems to me like it's a very complicated cascade with multiple points where things can go bad.

    Also, could you please reach out to the American Society of Hematology?  As of yesterday (4/14) they weren't mentioning pH control in their recommended clinical anti-coagulation treatment guidelines.

    https://www.hematology.org/covid-19/covid-19-and-coagulopathy

    Sounds like they should know this...

    As well, when I read through this extensive review of DIC and its clinical treatment, pH was not mentioned even once except as a set of clinical values for a patient case study (where the pH values for the doomed patient rose the entire time as they crashed over  a ten day period).

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcp/article/146/6/670/2703125

    This came out in 2016 so perhaps it's outdated?  Still, kind of surprising that pH isn't mentioned even once here either.

    I try to do my research, but reading cannot ever come close to actual experience so thanks for weighing in.

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:55am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Dear Ioriniv

    I am translating in post 7 from French to English - in the video he translates from the Italian doctor.

    Effectively I know nothing about DIC, and subsequently cannot debate the points you raise. But as you speak from personal experience - I too know something about clotting as I have experienced a thrombosis experience - by having a heart attack. My experience has been that Big Pharma has lied about cholesterol to sell Billions of dollars worth of statins each year. Inflamation causing plaque to form in arteries - good dietary choices as a variable that can greatly improve your health - without statins. For me inflamation associated with blood clotting sounds familiar to me.

    Again I am not a doctor, but from a logical point of view I would think that trama and the blood clotting to repair would be somewhat different than irritation causing inflamation and the breakdown of the cell structure. We are dealing with a virus that is a "foreign" invader - destructive at that.

    Best wishes - please remember I am the messenger. The Italian doctor is the one that is talking about micro-thrombosis - which Chris amply talks about in this presentation.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:58am

    albacore

    albacore

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    Joined: Jul 20 2014

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    1

    Why describe the study as a failure?

    @nordicjack

    why describe the study as “failed”? It has given us a data point. From what folks are saying, it suggests that hydroxychloroquine given in this way (after significant onset, no zinc) doesn’t do much good.
    If that pans out we have learned something useful about treatment, haven’t we? Of course we need many more studies.
    It rankles with me to see Chris and others saying “show me the data” then the moment we get some data start saying “failure,” “nothing to see here,” and so on.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:59am

    #32
    nordicjack

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    In latest news - "HQC doesnt clear virus according to new strudy"

    No, I would imagine it would not, your immune system has to do that.  It does help zinc keep replication down while your immune system can do that.  But that is just one action of the drug.  There are others as chris mentioned regarding heme.   That was the leading title by media.. However the researches did note it did improve symptoms. and reduced inflammation according to biochemical markers.    "what?"    Hmm... and that was just a measly study of 150.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:03am

    #33
    moheli

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    moheli said:

    Interesting data about the 4 persons whose bodies they had autopsied: "The four decedents included male and female patients, ages 44-76. All were African American, and had a history of obesity class 2-3, and hypertension controlled by medication. Three of the patients had insulin-dependent type II diabetes, two had known chronic kidney disease (stages 2 and 3), and one was taking methotrexate.(this drug can cause blod clots and mess up your longs and suppresses the immune system, it seems according to drug info). On top of that there was "one decedent with prior partial lobectomy on the right side". Also, all the patients received "antibiotic therapy throughout their hospital courses". These also have side-effects that probably have weakened these patients even more.

    Even the younger patients (>44) were suffering underlying diseases and probably for a while on prescription drugs: "We also note that two of our patients were younger than those commonly thought to be ask risk for death due to Covid-19, and without immunosuppressive therapy, though with obesity, hypertension, and diabetes - comorbidities often present in our patient population, and in the population of many cities with Covid-19 on the rise."

    Did they die from Sars-cov-2 or with Sars-cov-2 ? I'm not a virologist, but I wonder if one can even say they had Sars-cov-2 in their bodies, given that the RT-PCR test is not unquestioned and can deliver false positives...

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:19am

    #34
    ddelong

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    8

    Dicotomy of Treatments

    The more I look at what is going on, the more I am astonished over the treatment of the treatments and standards of care.

     

    First let me say that I'm not an anti vaxxer, in fact I currently work a company that aseptically fills parenteral drugs.

    Why is it that the vaccine is the Gold Standard to all of these people, it doesn't make sense.  I know that it has been about 20 years since SARS-COV-1, but all those vaccines were basically crap since they caused more harm than good.  Have we progressed that much with SARS vaccines or is this just a Hail Mary play.

    You have countless doctors stating that the ventilator standard of care is most likely causing more damage, yet the standard of care must be followed for the almighty dollar to follow.

    We have Subject Matter Experts questioning alternate therapies because they haven't passed through the gold standard of the double blind study.  Our Health Care Workers and others are at war, they should be able to adjust therapies within reason in the effort to save lives.  This may require off label use of drugs, not following standard of care, etc.

    Also if a vaccine is found to work, and be effective for the long term there is still a problem of scale.  Lets say that in a best case scenario we only initially have to produce a vaccine for the 30% that don't have herd immunity.  So let's guess that 2.25 Billion need to be vaccinated.  This is of course assuming that the upstream bioreactors are available and scalable for the filling needs.  This is also assuming that the all the consumables, materials and packaging can be made in quantities can be made in time.  Whomever, gets the go ahead for the vaccine will need to have vendors produce things like vials, stoppers, and caps to supply to all of the various manufacturing sites.

    These days the majority of vaccines are filled into vials with only the one dose in them (Single Dose vs. Multi Dose Vials).  The best aseptic fillers these days run between 600-1000 vials a minute.  Now, an aseptic line usually only does batch filling as opposed to continuous filling so there is down time to be had but we will eliminate this for our calculations, also automated inspection machine top out at about 600 vials per minute for cloudy solutions which the majority of vaccines are, labeling and packaging shouldn't be a restraint.  So we are limited with a throughput of 600 vials per minute or 36,000 per hour.  So one line is capable filling the 2.25 Billion vials in 2,922 days.  Now of course there are possibly many facilities around the world that are capable of this throughput.  I personally think that the number of lines filling and inspecting at this rate around the world are on the low side, 30 tops.  If we take that number it will take the worlds fastest 30 filling lines about 100 days to fill those 2.25 Billion vials.  Of course the release and approval of the vials would most likely require some of the standard release requirements and take about 3 weeks per batch.  Then you have distribution and supply chain times.

    You say, well just have Ford, GM, Fiat Chrysler come and fill some of the vials.  This would only be valid under the FDA, EMA, CFDA, and others really relaxing their rules.  A new top of the line filler takes months to design and build, additional months to install and validate in an already validated pharmaceutical facility.

    My point is that having a vaccine in quantity in 12 months is a pipe dream at best.  We would be needing to identify facilities now, building more machines now, building bio-reactors now, deciding on packaging materials now.

    If we are able to find that a cocktail like Hydroxychlorquine, Zn, and Azithromycin has benefit now regardless of not having a double blind study, we should be moving in that direction now since it will likely take 12-18 months to have the infrastructure and supplies to make a single vaccine in mass quantities and this will likely be at the expense of producing other vaccines and other injectable drug products.

    These pills can be produced faster than vials (1000's vs. 100's a minute) and are already validated processes that are recognized by regulatory authorities.

     

    Like I said I'm in the business and I don't understand this odd infatuation by Dr. Fauci et. al. that we have to wait for a vaccine(s) that have yet to be confirmed with any human trials when we have mounting war time evidence of other treatments and standards of care that are working.

    It's like waiting around for a super-weapon that may or may not work when you have ingenious personnel that are cobbling together alternate solutions with the tools that they have and they appear to work but the "managers" refuse to see the merits and bide their time waiting for the super-weapon.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:20am

    #35
    marinam714

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    marinam714 said:

    I follow a blogger from Italy who has been reporting on the local situation in Milan.  She said that in light of the recent finding (blood clots), they are thinking of trying heparin as a treatment.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:37am

    #36
    TWalker5

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    TWalker5 said:

    Hello.
    I greatly appreciate the fine work Chris et al. have done in keeping us well informed on this topic. I have a healthy respect for the power of this virus and have been hunkered down for over a month now.

    But I am having trouble reconciling Chris’s very scary overviews of just how dangerous and deadly Covid-19 is with the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who contract the disease suffer either mild symptoms or none at all. Couple that with the reports of tent hospitals being dismantled and predicted hot spots not materializing and I’m genuinely confused. Can anyone help me out here?

    Thomas

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 11:31am

    Hanoi Joe

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    Hanoi Joe said:

    Great update, but your updates make me want to overthrow the government.  Screw the FED!!!  Pitchforks and torches!!!

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 11:40am

    #38
    karenchantal

    karenchantal

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    Terrible example

    I think this stuff is half working.  But feelings aside, this is a terrible example of what happens when it get's into an elder care place.

    https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/45-dead-in-coronavirus-outbreak-at-canterbury-rehabilitation-healthcare-center/

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 11:46am

    karenchantal

    karenchantal

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    karenchantal said:

    I just posted this.........  It will wipe out old people's homes unlike the flu.  https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/45-dead-in-coronavirus-outbreak-at-canterbury-rehabilitation-healthcare-center/

    Having said that, it is a novel virus and I think we will all get it at some point.  (Different viewpoint than Chris, lol.)  Either viewpoint, it is always good to be prepared.

    And if you prepare and nothing happens to you, then you are ready for your next hurricane-power outage-yellowstone-alien invasion.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 11:48am

    #40

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1616

    5

    University of Minnesota study on hydroxychloroquine for early outpatient use AND prevention

    While leaving out Zinc, this study is still promising because at least they are explicitly cataloging those participants who are taking Zinc, and they are looking for 1500 patients for each side of the study.  Full data more than two weeks out, but some possibility of early data;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiwtEeRTa8A

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 12:03pm

    #41
    louisdoran

    louisdoran

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    please rush to Chris ASAP-very pertinent information

    Just received this document from my brother this morning. It's  in french but surely someone can translate to english. In it, very pertinent and timely information from ICU doctors on how to treat coronavirus patients. Some lifesaving information in there. The information also ties in very well with what Chris has been getting at in his latest video. I tried sending an email but don't know if it went through all the way to Chris or not. I truly believe some of the information contained in this document could save lives and since every minute counts, please help me make sure this makes it all the  way to Chris to be  shared widely ASAP.

    Cheers

    References-COVID19

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 12:23pm

    #42
    loj-ikul

    loj-ikul

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    1

    Zinc Deficiency

    Zinc naturally occurs in the body and many people do not need to take supplements as they get it naturally through diet. In this case the HCQ would work without a zinc supplement when a covid case is treated early onset of symptoms (fever).

    I found this:

    About two billion people in the world suffer zinc deficiency. That includes 40% of older adults in the United States, the most likely demographic to end up in intensive care

    https://www.doctorshealthpress.com/food-and-nutrition-articles/new-discovery-how-zinc-can-help-with-infections/

    https://www.doctorshealthpress.com/general-health-articles/the-consequences-of-not-enough-zinc/

    https://www.doctorshealthpress.com/general-health-articles/the-consequences-of-not-enough-zinc/

    A lot of older people are zinc deficient. Anyone over a certain age should be given the Zinc. There should be a national campaign to get those people on zinc to boost their immune systems. The president could mention this in a presser. It also would be interesting to know the data of patients that experienced severe symptoms of their bodies level of zinc.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 12:42pm

    #43
    schwedischdemokratischrepublik

    schwedischdemokratischrepublik

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    1

    Swedish testing may be faulty, many possible false negatives and models show over 100k may die

    And many, many die without being tested at all. Without even proper anesthetics and without oxygen tubes. One 96 year old woman died after gasping for breath all night in her nursing home room, given only paracetamol and "an open window."

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsverigesradio.se%2Fsida%2Fartikel.aspx%3Fprogramid%3D83%26artikel%3D7451867

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsamnytt.se%2Feva-plagades-till-dods-av-corona-behandlades-endast-med-alvedon-och-oppet-fonster%2F

    Swedes, in general, do not take this seriously, but now a fairly famous and
    not that old (51, with no known underlying conditions) Swedish media personality has died from it, so maybe that will wake some people up. Models by researchers at Uppsala University show us heading towards over 100,000 dead.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsamnytt.se%2Fny-prognos-mellan-52-och-183-tusen-svenskar-kommer-att-do-av-corona%2F

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 12:47pm

    PaulJam

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    RE: Terrible example

    If anyone reading this has elderly loved ones in assisted living/ nursing home/memory care facilities, get them out if at all possible.  I have 2 elderly parents in such a facility.  My 85 year old mother is in a memory care unit where confining residents to rooms was nearly impossible because of the care needs of each resident.  Virtually the whole unit came down with COVID-19, including my Mom, who now appears unlikely to survive.  My father is in the same facility in an assisted living unit.  He does not have COVID-19, but is in complete lockdown, unable to leave his room, unable even to see my mom.  Our whole family is having to witness this playing out without the ability to physically be with my mother.  I would not wish this experience on anyone.

    Until the is a vaccine and/or rapid test, it is literally impossible for elder care facilities to take enough precautions to prevent COVID-19 from becoming established within the facility.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 1:24pm

    #45
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    5

    Assumptions

    A lot of people are making assumptions about SARS COV 2.

    One rather large assumption is that there will be a vaccine the treat this virus, in any time frame. This assumption is being made by people like Fauci, Gates etc. who are engaged in policy decisions. There is one fact that is undeniable about this assumption. There has never ever been an effective coronavirus vaccine.  This time will be different?

    Another big assumption is that there will be widespread herd immunity. That assumption is based on experience with previous diseases. No one actually knows if that is possible with this coronavirus. The coronavirus for the common cold has never had herd immunity. This time will be different?

    Another rather large assumption is that people "recover". What is a working definition for recovered in this case? If one has permanent lung or other organ damage but does not die is that recovered?

    At the moment we have many more questions than answers. Some answers I would like to get would come from the BSL4 labs in Wuhan and UNC. I would like for extradition proceedings to begin on Dr. Shi Zhengli for bio terrorism and a trial in the US. If Julian Assange can be imprisoned for publishing US war crimes then I think the world should demand and receive answers from "bat woman" . I would like to know what gain of function was she working on. I would like to know if this is from "nature" how many people living in proximity to those bat caves have ever gotten this coronavirus? I would like for Tedros to be put on trial as well for being complicit with the Chinese government. At the present time 2 million people are affected 133k are dead, untold numbers are damaged forlife, and economically millions of lives are being destroyed.

    We need, deserve, and demand answers and the perps need to pay.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 1:27pm

    Galene77

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    The PDF paper ref's Silvano Trotta whom I think is Belgian?

     

    He has a YouTube vid channel; my French isn't as good as my German.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgaRJPL8cmE&feature=youtu.be

    It mentions difficulty in getting pertinent info out via MSM - quelle surprise.

    He says patients are going to ICU for generalized venous thromboembolism, especially pulmonary.

    So over ventilation pressure on failing lungs is proving a common mistake, in end game patient management, 2nd time I’ve heard this hypothesis.

    Ditto the release of iron from haemoglobin rendering oxygen transfer from lungs to vital organs as a broken mechanism.

    So if you don’t treat the blood disease function… you’re likely to have a poor outcome.

    He doesn’t touch on its similarity to high altitude sickness equates Covid-19 more like carbon-monoxide poising.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 1:28pm

    #47
    karenchantal

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    Extra fries, I mean exercise covid paper

    I saw this....

    I have been spending as much time outside as possible to help prevent covid.  And keep windows open if possible.

    https://newsroom.uvahealth.com/2020/04/15/covid-19-exercise-may-help-prevent-deadly-complication/

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 1:33pm

    #48
    Galene77

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    2

    The narratibve is not on what ICU Dr's are figuring out.

    He who pays the piper calls the tune. So its the Gates Foundation/WHO and govt health systems to the rescue with mandatory vaccines that will eventually biotag you.

    As hacking phones to fool locations is an obvious dodge to the apps being applied now.

    The MSM wants fear, isolation... and a broken 99% to roll over

    A narrative that cheaper existing drugs and protocols are possible is being for want of a better phrase... - whitewashed.

    BIG Pharma wins.

    BIG Industry wins...

    He who lobby's and pays the govt influencers salaries gets the results they want.

    What's new?

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 1:52pm

    #49

    Beckett Bennett

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    Posts: 114

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    Galene77

    I totally agree with you.  If we look at history though, civilizations where oppression is rampant - they don’t last.  And this one won’t either.  People don’t like unfairness and the jack boot of oppression on our necks will make people angry. And then.....

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 3:28pm

    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

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    Yes we are using the ventilators in the right way

    This doc is just a social engineer trying to make it look as bad as it possibly can like many others.  His first comment or so seem genuine and now not so much.  We have been following the  standard lung protective protocol for ARD's and it is working just fine. Unfortunately, unhealthy patients are responding very poorly to this virus and those that end up on the vent have a 20-40% mortality rate.  Small hospitals that haven't see a lot of really sick patients in past don't know what to do are using too much oxygen and are causing fibrosis rather quickly.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 3:37pm

    #51
    Ben Burke

    Ben Burke

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    Difficult Conversations - the nature of Belief

    Good morning folks,

    Today I revisited what has become one of the most valuable short discussions about the human psyche I've ever come across.

    Let me give you a tiny quote and suggest you spend 18 minutes to get some clues about how to bring curiosity to a difficult conversation.

    “I think it’s very difficult to find a way to speak to somebody who is coming from Certainty without finding yourself collapsing into a similar kind of language. So you come back at the Certainty with another kind of Certainty and that gets us nowhere - it’s hopeless. So the question would be, how does one find a way to have a conversation with someone who is in that state without yourself falling into sounding Certain and using the same language, which I call the Language of Blame ”

    - Dr Philip Stokoe, with the legendary Philip Adams on Late Night Live

    How curiosity can change the world

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 4:32pm

    #52
    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Excellent overview of vaccine research

    Former HIV researchers have switched their labs to Covid research.  Here's an overview of what's going on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBcc_dk9Q9U&feature=youtu.be

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 5:37pm

    #53
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Posts: 753

    4

    Chris' newest video, "What a beast!" (4/15/20)

    The Coronavirus Is Even More Dangerous Than Previously Thought (4/15/20)





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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 5:47pm

    #54
    RenalTransplant30Years

    RenalTransplant30Years

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    Joined: Apr 16 2020

    Posts: 1

    1

    Cyclosporine, Azathioprine, and Prednisone...Oh my

    Chris,

    First, your videos are great! I am glad I found you on YouTube.

    As a renal transplant patient, cadavaric kidney and going strong 30 years, I have concerns about COVID-19 and the meds in the subject line. So started looking for Cyclosporine A (CysA) and Coronavirus and found some published papers. Interestingly there are papers addressing the use of CysA and the effect on T cells. The papers (I have the links but not handy at the moment) address how CysA was shown to reduce the COVID-19 replication. As for Azathioprine (Azp) those papers address how it causes apoptosis of T cells.

    I was wondering if the topic of transplant meds, a lot of which are also used for other conditions, would be something interesting for a future video segment?

    Thank you for providing the informative, factual, and scientific treatment of the Honey Badger virus. Be safe! And to all, be safe and stay healthy.

    RenalTransplant30Years

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 6:09pm

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: Terrible example

     Our whole family is having to witness this playing out without the ability to physically be with my mother.  I would not wish this experience on anyone.

    PaulJam - good god, I am so sorry for your situation.  That's truly horrible.  I find myself frustrated, angered and saddened by your experience.

    I don't know what to say...

    Be strong.  Be well.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 6:54pm

    schwedischdemokratischrepublik

    schwedischdemokratischrepublik

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    2

    RE: terrible example

    Very sorry to hear that, what a horrible thing to go through. And many tens of thousands of families are going through similar experiences. Hundreds of thousands more will. Just unimaginable how much suffering this things is causing. Here in Sweden, it's tearing through the nursing homes, lots dying without even the supplies needed to do so painlessly and comfortably. And most not tested.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 7:01pm

    #57
    James

    James

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    Joined: Sep 19 2013

    Posts: 24

    6

    Ignoring root of problem

    I have been a pathologist for 35 years and have seen the sickcare system pruning terminal branches without concern for root problems. Why? It makes the participants feel good, and keeps the profits rolling in. The root of SARS-COV-2 is labs in the U.S., Canada and China (and probably other places) experimenting with dangerous viruses by inserting “gain of function” genetic code. Peak Prosperity is ignoring this elephant in the room.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 7:42pm

    #58
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 1499

    3

    33 year old florida nurse

    How does a woman who is nurse, without any health issues die from this and leave a husband and 4 year old behind.    This disease is really very very scary.  The flu doesnt even compare - and some people ( officials ) are saying this will likely be about .06 CFR when its done..  Yeah we already have a whole years worth of deaths in NY in just 2 weeks.. That is not a couple times the flu.. its like 50 times .    this thing is 30-80 times as deadly as the flu.  with 3-5 times as many to get infected.  that will end with about 6 million in the US dead.. and they are speaking like its going to be 180k.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #59
    Christina Watkins

    Christina Watkins

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    Posts: 4

    1

    Worth your time. (Mentions Chris Martenson)

    Epoch Times Origin of the Wuhan virus

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bXWGxhd7ic

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 7:56pm

    #60
    ds24

    ds24

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    Joined: Dec 02 2010

    Posts: 63

    5

    "Grow your own garden" drumbeat leaves out apartment dwellers

    I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see every day's video end in "Grow your own garden!" That advice assumes everyone lives in a single-family home, making PP members that live in apartments invisible and unincluded.

    If food shortages get really bad, I don't trust that community gardens won't be looted. So I don't see a way to protect myself. Since I no longer own a home, I don't have a food security plan, which leaves me feeling very vulnerable. I get it: I believe food crises are coming. I see no way out other than leaving the city, and that is too overwhelming to contemplate.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:08pm

    #61
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    switzerland, germany and others

    These are countries who have high surveillance and have tested large percentages of the population.  And note germany is now trending above 3% CFR.. remember when ... everyone said oh germany is low because they test more..     well even countries with testing 10 times their infection rate are all showing 5ish percent CFR or higher.   I think the wuhan thing that was 2-3% not including the lag was generous.   It did finish closer to 5%.. and it looks like countries that do not do BCG and have greater A blood types - are being hit much harder.. ( US , England, all of europe. )

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:13pm

    #62

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

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    Please disregard these old, sick people who lived thanks to hydroxychloroquine - they are anecdotal

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yubIjKZZ19I

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 8:29pm

    #63
    nordicjack

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    Explanation for the funny curve in Dr Martenson's recent video

    I think its easy to see what is happening there.  We had a distorted death to case rate early on as it seems the data becomes more accurate with additional testing.    what we had early on was wuhan's data and artificial numbers from the US and even Europe.  It is now seemingly more deadly in these countries than in Asia.   including germany now.   Some of this can be due to the association seen with the BCG vaccine.. eastern germany likely received the USSR vaccine.. which may more protective.    as well as what we are seeing in asia with their vaccine policies.  I am mostly a antivaxxer, however , I am risk vs reward aware.

    My main belief here regarding the funny curve is that its simply more deadly in countries that are now exploding.. than in wuhan.. or other countries with BCG vaccination.  Additionally, as i mentioned in a previous comment, is that europe and the US have a greater population of A blood types than in asia as well..

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:14pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Christina, epoch times rocks

    The media and censorship is running rampant.  I wonder what sort of culpability in this mess is on the media, specifically google/facebook and others and its pushing the corrupt/propaganda and wrong and misinformation channels like WHO and CDC.

    I actually feel they are culpable in the deaths of many of americans. I wonder if a class action lawsuit is worthy.. I think so..

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:14pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1616

    4

    Stop complaining and do something! People don't need to die in nursing homes

    I have posted over, and over, and over again about hydroxychloroquine.  If people have parents or relatives suffering.. get off your sorry asses and find a doctor who will prescribe.  Don't act like there is nothing you can do.  Here is a doctor that literally saved 39 lives in one Texas nursing home.  Come on people.. wake the heck up!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBB3Obkla2M

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:19pm

    #66

    Jim H

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    Resource for people who can't find a doctor to prescribe the hydroxychloroquine regimen

    Over the last week Jerome Corsi has interviewed Dr. Zelenko as well as several other pro-HCQ doctors.  He is working with one of the doctors to tap into her network and make sure there are doctors in every State who are willing to prescribe HCQ via tele-med.  This may not be the end of hurdles because some governors and their pharma licensing boards still want you or your loved ones to die... but this is at least one means to try to get the drugs;

    https://corsination.com/covid-19/

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:24pm

    #67
    arterius2

    arterius2

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    Explaination of funny curve in most recent video

    The funny curve you see is due to two waves of infection in China vs Rest of the world(ROW), it combines the data from China and ROW so the graph you see is an overlap of two sets of data points, remember China and ROW did not happen at the same time, so the ROW lags behind China, imagine offsetting another curve behind a curve..So where it started to bottom out for China at around beginning of March, but that is when the rest of the world caught on, so it started another wave as the infection started to ramp up outside of China.. But there are still a large number of infected patients remaining in China at the time that outbreak started in ROW, so the Chinese data artificially deflated the death rates for the rest of the world at the time. As most of Chinese patients started to recover overtime, the ROW started to rise, so the death rate climbed back up again, and the apex of the 2nd wave, is when China data is almost completely gone from the picture and purely ROW data at this point.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 9:49pm

    loj-ikul

    loj-ikul

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    Growing a garden in an apartment

    Here are a some links to give ideas. It wont create a huge amount of food, yet it could be the difference between having something to eat or going hungry.

    https://mashable.com/2015/06/07/plants-you-can-grow-in-apartments/

    https://www.airtasker.com/blog/grow-vegetables-apartment/

    Here is a blog about being a prepper and living in an apartment. https://apartmentprepper.com/

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:04pm

    borderpatrol

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    Bingo, unhealthy are getting hit hard, age don't matter

    This plandemic has been made possible by the unhealthy.  If it were not for the obese, and unhealthy the numbers would be a fraction of what they currently are.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:17pm

    borderpatrol

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    We stopped using hydroxychloroquine regimen

    We stopped using hydroxychloroquine in our unit because we didn't see any benefit. Once someone is very sick, supportive care is the name of the game. Standard treatment and care like another other viral pneumonia.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:20pm

    #71
    Andy_S

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    DANISH Govt: N# INFECTED May Be 70 TIMES N# Counted

     

    In other words, published CFR may be 70 TIMES higher than it should be.

    "4.1.2. Revised planning basis Statens Serum Institut informs on the basis of antibody studies in 1,000 blood donors in the Capital Region, lost in the period 1-3. In April, 2.7% had been detected with antibodies, which, with a sensitivity of 70%, corresponds to 3.5% of those examined had already been infected with COVID-19. Statens Serum Institut states that if this figure is transmitted to the entire population of the Capital Region, it is equivalent to approx. 65,000 people may have been infected as early as 26 March. At this time, 917 confirmed cases of infection were found in the region. This means that there can be up to 70 times more infected in the community than confirmed cases."

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:27pm

    NicolaHNZ

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    'Fact Checked' by Facebook

    Hi all

    I also watched (and shared) the Epoch Times video of the origins of the virus.  I received a notification today, fact checking me, to say that this was 'fake' news.  Enraged, I wrote a rather curt reply and deleted the notification (I wish I hadn't done that part).

    Has anyone else encountered this?

    Cheers

    Nicola

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:28pm

    #73
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Alert: US West Point Mint shut down today, indefinately

    BREAKING NEWS ** West Point Mint Shuts Down - What Happens Now? | Andy Schectman





     

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:38pm

    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

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    Engineered to control the masses and take away our rights and freedoms

    But I am having trouble reconciling Chris’s very scary overviews of just how dangerous and deadly Covid-19 is with the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who contract the disease suffer either mild symptoms or none at all. Couple that with the reports of tent hospitals being dismantled and predicted hot spots not materializing and I’m genuinely confused. Can anyone help me out here?

     

    Answer is easy, create a new virus that people don't have antibodies too and will hit hard those that are unhealthy, obese, and the at risk (old,etc). Then, most  everyone will over react and want  and desire to live in a police state where there will be mandatory testing, vaccines, etc.  Also, by shutting down the economy they will bankrupt or near bankrupt large segments of low and middle class families and businesses, making them dependent of the government for handouts with strings attached of coarse.  Welcome to your third world country, where your one injury or sickness from bankruptcy.

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  • Wed, Apr 15, 2020 - 10:48pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    reply to ds24 -- food security in an apartment

    I have seen some amazing places apartment owners use for food storage.  SO, start food storage for your food security.  One of the things that apartment dwellers store is seeds for sprouts, alfalfa, radish, sunflower, pea, these seeds are biught not at the garden store but are bought in larger packages for sprouting.  Eating sprouts is very nutritious and will give you good vitamins without a garden if fresh vegetables become hard to source.

    You can also buy, as part of your food storage, dehydrated carrots and onions, packed in number 10 size cans that will store for many years.  There are many, many servings in a number 10 can of these.  I practiced cooking with those two a few years ago, bought and opened a can of each and lasted for many months incorporated into soups, stir frys, etc...  I would also recommend canned tomato products. So now you can have salads with your fresh sprouts, and have carrots, tomatoes and onions as vegetable bases to cook with.

     

    So, instead of comparing yourself to situations you dont have, make do with what you do  have.

     

    http://www.heirloom-organics.com/guide/guidetogrowingsprouts.html

    I just put that link in because of the list of types of seeds and how they taste and what vitamins they have.  Not as an endorsment to buy from them, I know nothing about that company.  Many seeds that can be sprouted, such as legumes, you can buy any legumes, in other words, a one pound bag of lentils from the grocery store can be used to sprout with.

     

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 12:00am

    #76
    arterius2

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    1 in 8 may be infected in NY





     

    1/8 pregnant woman in NY giving birth test positive for Coronavirus, thoughts?

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 12:12am

    #77
    Andy_S

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    HIDDEN "ICEBERG" of Unreported CASES is ENORMOUS - ie. MORTALITY Very LOW

    As the above video about Pregnant cases shows, the actual number of unreported cases is ENORMOUS. The Danish testing shows the same.

    This is actually good news - it means true mortality is very low.

     

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 12:14am

    reflector

    reflector

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    re: borderpatrol

    borderpatrol,

    as someone who is just getting over the virus (i hope), and who agrees with your assessment that the virus is being used as an excuse to implement systems of totalitarian control and take away peoples' rights, i can offer my take on that.

    i, too was of the opinion that the vast majority of people who were going to be seriously affected by the virus are over 60, smokers, overweight people, and those with pre existing conditions.

    i'm 49, i was going to the gym and biking regularly, was taking all the right vitamins and supplements, had a good diet, didn't smoke, and so i felt ready to take on the virus and wasn't worried about it.

    i came down with first symptoms on mar 15th, was sick for a few days, felt it spreading to my lungs, then felt it spreading to my chest and heart and spent a week wondering if i was going to have a heart attack, though i've never had heart issues before.

    now, it's a month later, i feel mostly recovered, though i still feel a pressure in my chest that wasn't there before, and my energy level is still low.  i'm hoping there's no lasting permanent damage.

    i think the virus affects people differently, and you are taking your chances if you get it; plus, there are multiple strains of the virus, some of which are more dangerous than others it seems.

    i think there is a cognitive bias in that we tend to focus on the more interesting and extreme cases, and perhaps chris does that to some extent in reporting as well.

    but the risk is there, and my advice is, avoid taking chances with it if you don't have to.

    of course, your rights are your rights, and anyone who tries to take them away citing medical emergency or any other excuse, should be recognized as an aggressor and an oppressor, an enemy of a free society.

    no self-proclaimed "authority" can know your personal values, goals, and risk-preferences, it's up to you and everyone else to decide what risks you want to take.

    but right or wrong, it seems the lockdowns and other measures are having a big impact, and the virus spread is slowing down a lot, which is why cases aren't materializing as expected..

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 1:00am

    #79
    davefairtex

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    undetected case count: 6 studies

    There are a LOT more cases out there than show up in the "confirmed" case counts.

    The "NYC mothers" study says that - during March - that most likely 14% of NYC was infected by end of month.  By end of April, what do we imagine that number will be?  Higher, certainly.  That's our "denominator" for the CFR.

    I think when all is said and done, this will be a whole lot less deadly than we feared, and way more infectious.  Especially on cold & dry subway lines.  With nobody wearing masks.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/04/14/coronavirus-case-counts/

    And our friend borderpatrol suggests that, mostly, its obese and compromised people that end up dying.  In his experience.

    So.  Lose weight, tubby!  🙂

    Damned hard to do when cooped up indoors.  I'm already up 5 pounds, I can feel it.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 1:02am

    albacore

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    NY pregnancies - what are you expecting?

    @arterius2

    “1/8 pregnant woman in NY giving birth test positive for Coronavirus, thoughts?“

    You post a stat with no reference, no detail, and expect us to have an opinion on it. What is your opinion? What axe are you grinding? This is not really helpful to informed discussion.
    Are you particularly surprised that 12.5% of young people in a virus hotspot have been exposed? A lot of this seems to be going on, trying to resurrect the “just like the flu” meme.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 3:56am

    Chris Martenson

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    Bad Danish Math?

    In April, 2.7% had been detected with antibodies, which, with a sensitivity of 70%, corresponds to 3.5% of those examined had already been infected with COVID-19.

    That's probably some very bad math right there.

    With a sensitivity of only 70% we have to assume (although it's not stated) that the specificity of the test is also less than perfect.  If we even generously assume that the specificity is around 90% then the probability of seeing a detected 2.7% positive rate is pretty much 100% just due to false positives.

    If my recollection of testing probabilities is correct, even if the specificity was 97.3% you'd expect to record a 2.7% "positive" hit rate.  Of course, those would be false positives.

    The only way the Dutch could record a 2.7% test sample result and then true it up to a higher number, as they did, would be to have a test that is 100% specific.  It returns zero false positives allowing you to estimate some false negatives that you can toss on your pile of true positives.

    I am verrrrry doubtful of that being the case here with a test with a crappy 70% sensitivity.

     

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 4:26am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    The True Incidence of Covid in Population

    There are a LOT more cases out there than show up in the “confirmed” case counts.

    It is undeniably true that there are MORE cases out there than show up in case counts.  HOW many more is the $1,200 question.  Thankfully, a family can live on that amount for up to ten weeks, according to Mnuchin.

    We all want to know the true incidence.  We all want to know that people who do test for the SARS2 antibody (Ab) are actually now safe for life from reinfection by SARS2.  That's probably not the case, sadly, but we can hope.

    It would be a mistake to use that handy table from the Salt Lake Tribune as definitive in any way.  Why?  Because of some pesky details that involve testing.

    Here we have to dive into the slightly complex world of test specificity and sensitivity.

    In medical diagnosis, test sensitivity is the ability of a test to correctly identify those with the disease (true positive rate).

    Test specificity is the ability of the test to correctly identify those without the disease (true negative rate).

    To translate, if a test has a 90% sensitivity it has a 90% chance of properly delivering a true positive result and a 10% chance of delivering a false negative.

    If a test has 90% specificity, it has a 90% chance of properly detecting a true negative but a 10% chance of improperly registering a false positive.

    How do we make sense of this?

    Let's look at a real example.  The FDA has approved Cellex's Ab test which has a sensitivity of 93.8% and a specificity of 95.6%

    Sounds pretty good right?

    Well, not so fast.  In a population with an incidence of 100% those would be pretty solid.  But something goes off the rails when the true incidence is low.

    Here's the math in visual form.  Because of the interplay between the false positives and the false negatives, which involves some Bayesian math, the Sensitivity and false positive rate does not add up to 100%.  So if that jumps out at you, just let it go.

    Let's begin with a true underlying incidence of 10%:

    Wow.  And Weird, right? If the true incidence is 10% in a population this test with it's 93.8%/95.6% stats is going to cough up a 30% false positive rate.  So if you measured 10% as positive, the true rate would be just 7%.

    But it gets worse as we nudge down the incidence curve.  Here are the results for a 1% incidence rate:

    In a 1% true incidence population even the very good Celex test is coughing up 82% false positive test results.  For every 100 positives, 82 of them actually weren't.

    Many of the test results in the Salt Lake Tribune table were from earlier Ab test kits that weren't as 'good' as the Celex test.  So, the summary is who the hell knows?

    I wish we did.

    Here's a very good article on the problem we face here:

    There are two key criteria we look for when we’re evaluating the accuracy of an antibody test. One is sensitivity, the ability to detect what it’s supposed to detect (in this case antibodies). The other is specificity, the ability to detect the particular antibodies it is looking for. Scanwell’s chief medical officer, Jack Jeng, says clinical trials in China showed that the Innovita test achieved 87.3% sensitivity and 100% specificity (these results are unpublished). That means it will not target the wrong kind of antibodies and won’t deliver any false positives (people incorrectly deemed immune), but it will not be able to tag any antibodies in 12.7% of all the samples it analyzes—those samples would come up as false negatives (people incorrectly deemed not immune).

    By comparison, Cellex, which is the first company to get a rapid covid-19 antibody test approved by the FDA, has a sensitivity of 93.8% and a specificity of 95.6%. Others are also trumpeting their own tests’ vital stats. Jacky Zhang, chairman and CEO of Beroni Group, says his company’s antibody test has a sensitivity of 88.57% and a specificity of 100%, for example. Allan Barbieri of Biomerica says his company’s test is over 90% sensitive. The Mayo Clinic is making available its own covid-19 serological test to look for IgG antibodies, which Elitza Theel, the clinic’s director of clinical microbiology, says has 95% specificity.

    The specificity and sensitivity rates work a bit like opposing dials. Increased sensitivity can reduce specificity by a bit, because the test is better able to react with any antibodies in the sample, even ones you aren’t trying to look for. Increasing specificity can lower sensitivity, because the slightest differences in the molecular structure of the antibodies (which is normal) could prevent the test from finding those targets.

    “It really depends on what your purpose is,” says Robert Garry, a virologist at Tulane University. Sensitivity and specificity rates of 95% or higher, he says, are considered a high benchmark, but those numbers are difficult to hit; 90% is considered clinically useful, and 80 to 85% is epidemiologically useful. Higher rates are difficult to achieve for home testing kits.

    But the truth is, a test that is 95% accurate isn’t much use at all. Even the smallest errors can blow up over a large population. Let’s say coronavirus has infected 5% of the population. If you test a million people at random, you ought to find 50,000 positive results and 950,000 negative results. But if the test is 95% sensitive and specific, it will correctly identify only 47,500 positive results and 902,500 negative results. That leaves 50,000 people who have a false result. That’s 2,500 people who are actually positive—immune—but are not getting an immunity passport and must stay home. That’s bad enough. But even worse is that a whopping 47,500 people who are actually negative—not immune—could incorrectly test positive. Half of the 95,000 people who are told they are immune and free to go about their business might never have been infected yet.

    Because we don’t know what the real infection rate is—1%, 3%, 5%, etc.—we don’t know how to truly predict what proportion of the immunity passports would be issued incorrectly. The lower the infection rate, the more devastating the effects of the antibody tests’ inaccuracies. The higher the infection rate, the more confident we can be that a positive result is real.

    (Source - Technology Review)

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 4:41am

    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    mild ain't so mild

    and a 14 percent rate of infection is a real s**t storm. I haven't gotten ill yet that I know of, know plenty who have.  Things like relentless 2 week fever with encephalitis symptoms, severe hypoxia (treated at home, bedridden for a month), etc...these are some who don't get counted.  I hope our attack rate is at least 50 percent by now, going through this a second time is too much to imagine and hopefully not coming to a town near you.

    Wishing you a full recovery. Hoping this asymptomtic syndrome notion is true.  TAke good care.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 5:39am

    #84
    Hladini

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    Question for Chris

    Saw this link in a comments section:  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-020-0424-9.pdf and I'm pretty sure  you have  covered this recently.

    The person who posted this link characterized the virus as airborne HIV.  Is this accurate?

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 6:20am

    #85
    karenpath

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    Diffuse alveolar damage

    ...and acute respiratory distress syndrome

    http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/topic/lungnontumordiffusealveolardamage.html

     

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 6:57am

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    fix for the false positive issue

    The easy fix for "false positive" is to test twice.

    In other cases where you test positive for something, you end up getting a second test, just to be sure.  Pregnancy, HIV, cancer, etc.  If you come up positive - you automatically get a second test.

    While I don't have evidence that's what they did in this instance, I think it's a strong likelihood that - given how that's how things work in every other instance I'm familiar with, when the situation is relatively serious - it is likely true here too.

    "Whoa, a positive test!  Let's do it once more so we are sure."

    So, if I'm right, then we can use that table.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 8:24am

    #87
    Cia

    Cia

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    Joined: Mar 08 2020

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    2

    Sense of smell

    My father reacted to the flu vaccine my parents got every fall at the mall with paralysis, but my mother reacted by losing her sense of smell and taste and then was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. It is common for Alzheimer’s to have this effect, so yes, chemical nerve damage.

    Since the CV numbers of cases are still going up and it often takes many weeks to recover (ten Diamond Princess patients are still in critical condition), the ratio of recovered to deaths is not an accurate measure at this time, as most cases are still in the limbo of “active:” while they could go either way, most will recover. The number of active cases not yet called is huge, and true CFR is impossible to determine at this time. That being said, SARS started with a low CFR but eventually went up to almost 10%, maybe because patients got an increased viral burden as it became more common in the environment.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 8:40am

    #88
    Andrew

    Andrew

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    6

    Andrew said:

    This was a great presentation, thank you for all your thoughtful coverage of this topic. I am a practicing forensic pathologist in one of the hot zones in the USA. Regarding fibrin microthrombi in the lungs - I think this may just be a well-known feature of diffuse alveolar damage in general of any etiology, rather than a thrombotic (micro)angiopathy per se, but it's too early to know for sure either way. I have seen and heard about some cases of systemic thromboemboli outside the lungs and in cases where Covid-19 was highly suspected, but PCR tested negative (possibly false negatives). It could well be that thromboembolic complications are a feature of Covid-19, and it would be very helpful to know that.

    At least according to my observations, I also wonder why the greatest risk factor for severe Covid-19 disease or death seems to be obesity, which is possibly an even greater risk factor than age. Could it be increased ACE2 expression in fat, either in adipocytes themselves or supporting cell types? Or might it be decreased physiologic reserves in terms of heart and lung function that have to support a large quantity of body tissues (i.e. fat)? Or something else altogether? I don't know the answers, and hopefully we will find them someday.

    On another note, I am somewhat less optimistic than you in expecting a positive outcome for our country in this crisis, and what is continuing to unfold. Too bad we don't have more informed and thoughtful people like you in leadership positions. As you are fond of saying, it didn't have to be this way.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 9:11am

    #89
    Truth9834

    Truth9834

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    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 32

    2

    How to fix the coronavirus problem!

    Not sure if this was mentioned previously, so let me apologize upfront if it was, as there are many posts on this site.  It seems we are lost on how to handle this virus. How many cases are there? What is the fatality rate? How do we stop the spread without destroying the economy? etc. The solution is we test everyone! We test to determine if you have the virus AND if you had the virus! This should be our priority. If most of the spread is from those who show no symptoms then we will never get rid of this disease. If we do not know the fatality rate, then we will never know how serious this virus is. So we test everyone, maybe monthly if need be, or until we have enough information on this virus to determine a better action plan.  I also agree with Chris's comments on masks, and social distancing, etc.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 10:04am

    nordicjack

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    regarding how TB and BCG vaccine can protect against covid

    I am only going to guess here based on my understanding of biology.   The BCG vaccine is actually a vaccine for a specific bacteria that causes TB.    Vaccines that target bacteria act differently than viral vaccines.   I would say that somewhere in the vaccines response it trains the immune system to target pathogens on surface of the lungs.  Something that is not innate to the immune system.  These vaccinated people may have a slightly more trained response inwhich the immune system is already programmed how to deploy immune cells to the target location.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 11:02am

    tkl

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    tkl said:

    For those who don't read French, just a quick summary from memory: The article confirms what Chris was talking about today. There is this micro thrombosis going on and it is to do with inflammation. In Italy this seems to be understood now and patients are now being treated with anti-inflammatory medication and this is having great results. In the US by contrast, the study says, the older protocol of avoiding anti-inflammatory treatment was leading to the current bad statistics. The study suggests we don't need any quaranteen, just the correct treatment.

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 1:55pm

    #92
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 27 2020

    Posts: 61

    1

    UNCOUNTED CASES - The ICEBERG is REAL - Official Data

    And that means the true mortality is low. The Danish data (cited above) actually comes from people who DONATED BLOOD and the blood was tested. This showed that true cases in that area were up to 70 TIMES the recorded cases. And the NY "Pregnant" findings (cited in the video above) showed that probably one million NY City residents had already been infected (one week ago). More and more of these numbers will come out.

     

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 3:00pm

    #93

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    0

    Truth9834

    Test everyone.  No way.  As soon as you give the government the rights to your body your their complete slave forever!

    “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    Benjamin Franklin
    If you are afraid of the virus - stay home!  Many of us are not willing to give away the rights to our body so you can feel secure.  I must say because I work with people I knew I would be exposed and I was.  Got through it just fine and am in my 60’s.  Now I see a whole lot of people living in fear.  I suspect sooner or later most everyone will be exposed, just like the common cold.  Soon the quarantine and virus may be the least of your problems?

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2020 - 6:17pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1464

    0

    Ben Franklin

    A little off topic but one of my pet peeves is inaccurate quotes. i am sorry nothing personal but there is no evidence ol Ben ever said that.

    Just as Jefferson said that thing about inflation and deflation.

    On the other hand I do agree with the sentiment

     

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  • Sat, Apr 18, 2020 - 10:31am

    #95
    Holistic

    Holistic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 5

    0

    Prevention is better than cure!

    https://holistichealth.one/treatment-for-coronavirus/ Blessed are those helping others through this. The best thing is focus on the positive and what you can do. Instead of focusing on the "pandemic" ask yourself "what can I do to be best prepared for it." Since I'm into holistic health and wellness I have a list of natural things anyone can do to be as safe from this outbreak as possible. #coronavirus #covid-19 #immune

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  • Wed, Apr 22, 2020 - 12:45pm

    ciacovops

    ciacovops

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2020

    Posts: 7

    0

    Was this a potential missed 1st death in us?

    Looks a lot like a european variant Covid-19-cytokine storm related death ..anybody know if the hospital staff was tested or infected?

    https://www.wlox.com/2019/12/27/espn-reporters-death-prompts-questions-about-dangers-pneumonia/

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