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    Coronavirus: Now That It’s A National Emergency, Is It ‘Too Late’?

    Not yet. We all have a role to play in slowing the spread of this outbreak.
    by Adam Taggart

    Saturday, February 1, 2020, 10:24 AM

Late yesterday, the US officially declared coronavirus a “national health emergency”.

Some are starting to claim that it’s “too late” to do anything to stop the spread of coronavirus.

Is it?

Well, even if it’s too late to stop it, we may still be able to slow the spread substantially.

The latest numbers from China may be offering our first hope of that. At ~12,000, they are our first sign the virus may no longer be spreading at a geometric rate.

China’s quarantine efforts may be starting to pay off. (Or, we may just be getting bad data. It’s simply too early to tell.)

Yes, it’s important to prepare for coronavirus to arrive in your community. That’s just prudent given what we know right now.

But don’t lose hope. We all have a role to play in limiting the damage this outbreak can cause.

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123 Comments

  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 10:33am

    #1
    Kgluong

    Kgluong

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    Hmmm.

    Didn’t said it out right that it is man made but his body language tells otherwise.

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 10:40am

    #2
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    ASIAN MALES have 5 TIMES the ACE2 RECEPTOR CELLS - Vital Fact

    According to published research (see 2 links below) – this likely makes Asian men literally 5 times more susceptible to this kind of virus – especially in the lungs. Wow! Now that explains a lot-

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.919985v1.full

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/1222540821016326145

    God bless,

    -Andy.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 10:55am

    #3
    hail

    hail

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    Social Media filtering

    Social Media sites filtering posts.  But who decides what is true vs fake?

    Coronavirus: How Facebook, TikTok and other apps tackle fake claims – BBC News
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51337357

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:03am

    #4
    MTLass

    MTLass

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    8 Confirmed Cases in US

    An 8th case in the US has been confirmed in a Boston man.

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-cdc-seventh-case-us

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:34am

    #5
    schmidtma01

    schmidtma01

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    CDC Pandemic Planning

    The whole response to this by American public health officials has been incredibly frustrating for me to watch. The CDC (and state health departments) have been planning for pandemic influenza for 15-20 years! There are plans that, in theory, would just need to be pulled off the shelf, dusted off, and enacted. I’m not sure if that’s going on behind the scenes, but the lack of public communication on this matter is just fueling increased speculation, etc.

    That said, I think there’s very good reason why there has not been good communication about this: namely, it is realized that this is actually a more serious pandemic potential than any previous plan has taken into account. The most recent MMWR which details public planning has a chart to define severity of the pandemic (p 29 – I tried to insert the figure, but not convinced it would be readable). Among many other metrics, the most extreme scenario is projected to have an R0 of 1.8, case fatality rate of >1%, and a case-hospitalization rate of >7%. While I believe we can all see how the the data presented here can be put into that context, even the stupid CNN calculations of CFR of 2% is DOUBLE the threshold.

    Recommended actions in this case include: recommending closure of schools, social distancing, possibly cancelling/postponing mass gatherings. (p 32) At a minimum, sensible communication about all of this could focus on that piece.

    I’ve been trying to get my family and friends to take this seriously. I fear they would completely shut down if presented with any of the information presented on this site. So, I’ve chosen this as the frame of reference (oh, look, it’s from an organization you trust, so you should at least be prepared for these previously-planned-for scenarios). And I’m having spotty luck at best. So – good luck.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:36am

    #6
    Myrto Ashe

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    Viruses often reduce white blood cell counts

    I will look into this more,  but the video makes a big deal out of the fact that WBC counts are lowered with this coronavirus, but viruses often cause leukopenia (low WBC counts). However, they cause low neutrophils and higher lymphocytes, especially over time, while I seem to remember reading that what was especially noticeable were the low lymphocytes for coronavirus patients, which would make it a bit more like an HIV.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:37am

    #7
    Sparky1

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    Boston man in 20's confirmed for nCoV; 8 total confirmed US cases

    https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/02/01/first-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-massachusetts

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:53am

    #8
    Kgluong

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    He getting reelected.

     

    One of a very few US politician understanding what the world is facing.  He also implied it could be man made. The video was made two days ago so he was ahead of the game.

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:59am

    #9
    Myrto Ashe

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    Public health response can be understood if you watch Event 201 videos

    I encourage everyone to watch at least the Highlights Reel from the Event 201 pandemic simulation website. Yesterday I watched hours 1 and 2, and now understand the conundrum facing public health. Disrupting the economy would also cause incalculable suffering (though I get that it will be disrupted either way). But at the moment we still have the hope that mortality rate will be low, and severe illness will be low in the 1st world, that supply networks can be maintained.
    While if we were all prepared for a downturn (self sufficient in terms of energy, medication, food and water for 1 year), it could conceivably be better to all shelter in place, actually since most aren’t, stopping the economy cold to prevent transmission would have worse consequences (they make a pretty good case for that, you be the judge). For example, it would interrupt supply chains that make our sanitation, water treatment, energy generation, food growing and distribution, medical care (more than half of Americans on a chronic medication, some can’t go without for even 1 week without getting very sick) – basically there would be a lot of death and suffering. And though some of the commerce is useless (think plastic toys of all sorts) it represents jobs for many people the way we’ve structured our society.

    What it looks like we have is a virus that can be transmitted before you show symptoms, during often mild symptoms, and after you recover. And you can possibly get it over and over again. So we can’t suspend all activities indefinitely on that basis. The analogy for me is how we use our cars. Of course we know that there’s a chance we get killed leaving our driveway, but we still prefer life with a car (or a bike, you get my point). Or how we choose to go hiking in Colorado for example – yes there’s a chance you’ll get attacked by a mountain lion, but most choose to go hiking anyways.I reserve the right to change my mind as more info comes in, of course.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 12:40pm

    Reply to #9
    Kgluong

    Kgluong

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    The global economy have been disrupted. Global supply chain broken.  Dead and sick people don’t go back to work. No economy if your citizens are dead. That’s the realization of china.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 12:52pm

    #10
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

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    Random thoughts....

    A couple of things…..

    Most things these days run in a mostly optimal fashion.  To this end, Supply chains are run on a just in time basis. Additionally, Hospitals try to run such that the average  numbers of patients are very close to the capacity of beds that they have.  An empty bed makes no money & it costs a lot to maintain.  The same thing goes with the number of healthcare workers employed by hospitals.  Any increase above the average number of patients, such as a bad flu season, can put quite a bit of stress on a hospital.

    Also, so many things come from China that I am not sure most people are aware of.  A very large number of pharmaceutical medications, including antibiotics, come from China.  A disruption in those supply chains is likely to cause a severe impact to our entire healthcare system.  If you think a 3% mortality rate is high from Coronavirus, then just wait until you see the mortality rate go up without many of these medications.

    I could be wrong, but I think most people have no idea how much the world would be affected if the Chinese economy came to a standstill (looks like that’s what’s happening now).  Supply chains on all sorts of items would likely be disrupted on all sorts of unimaginable things.  Ford in Detroit would not be able to “make” cars because they don’t make the parts.  The parts come from China.  Most electronic parts probably come from China. Etc., etc.  For you business people, I’m sure you have had meetings already addressing supply chain concerns.

    The virus may or may not directly affect the health of Americans & people from non-China countries, but I personally don’t see how the world is not going to be deeply affected in so many unimaginable ways.  Our world lacks resilience in so many different ways.

    Hope I’m wrong.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 12:58pm

    #11
    mEad0w.larK

    mEad0w.larK

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    2019-ncov may be man made!

    Whitney Webb has a good article out:

    BATS, GENE EDITING AND BIOWEAPONS: RECENT DARPA EXPERIMENTS RAISE CONCERNS AMID CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK

    https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/bats-gene-editing-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

    Also this from South China Morning News:

    China coronavirus: Beijing confirms use of anti-HIV drugs at some hospitals

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047667/china-coronavirus-beijing-confirms-use-anti-hiv-drugs-some

    and this from Biorxiv:

    Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1

    Scary and possibly man made.

    I got all this info from : The Last American Vagabond site:

    https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/daily-wrap-up/more-evidence-this-is-a-man-made-coronavirus-israel-bombs-gaza-the-lie-of-the-century-implodes/

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:01pm

    #12
    Andy_S

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    PANDEMIC OVER - ASIANS are 5 TIMES as VULNERABLE TO VIRUS - Scientists

    This is due to the ACE2 Receptors in the lungs. Asian males have 5 times as many. Very sad news for East Asia. But good news for the rest of the world. This explains a great deal. Take a look-

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.919985v1.full

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/1222540821016326145

    God bless,

    -Andy.

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:21pm

    Reply to #6

    KugsCheese

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    Do you have reference for the information on certain viruses reducing the activity of the Innate Immune System?

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:22pm

    #13
    borderpatrol

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    Shock and awe

    Shock and awe Chinese style. Have labs that create new viruses and they occasionally leak like they have in the past. Create fear to keep the masses timid. Chinese have set standard for social credit scores to control society, see easy peasy. No accountability and more top down authority. More control, more regs, more vaccines, more sickness, look around folks, look at people around you and see how many medication they are on and how little they can do. Just because our lifespan is about the same, we are not healthier and many can do just a fraction of what those could do before them. I personally believe all this research into biochemistry is used against us, not for us. Perfect example is anthrax, created in lab is potent bio-terror weapon. Don’t let the likes of Bill and Linda Gate and their front foundations, they are nothing but a front the eugenic societies since the turn of the century. Guess who has a patent on a corona virus, yep the Gates, isn’t that special. I’m sure not the one in the pandemic but why are these patents needed in the first p;ace. Talk about predictive programming, John Hopkins pandemic exercise in Oct 2019 and now this, just a coincidence I’m sure. Funded by who? http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/newsroom/center-news/2020-01-24-Statement-of-Clarification-Event201.html

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:25pm

    #14
    randy45

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    Chris, do you still have ties at Duke? I’m wondering if you might get their comment on their research with Wuhan as discussed here

     

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:32pm

    Reply to #12
    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

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    sample size

    sample size is only eight patients. Needs larger sample size to give it credibility. Maybe could be front running this story. Maybe virus is know to have a higher mortality rate among Asians due to it’s make up in the lab, don’t know. I’m in the boat, don’t trust the Chinese, ever.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:36pm

    Reply to #10
    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

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    Agreed, supply chain weak link

    affects of this will be more economic than health. Just in time supply works great till it doesn’t. Maybe we need to just a lot less, I think.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:36pm

    #15
    Andy_S

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    AGREED - BUT ASIAN 5 x VULNERABILITY MATCHES Other DATA TOO

    We have been wondering why so few serious complications or deaths outside China. It seems so much more severe there. This provides answers why.

    It means this will be an Asian pandemic rather than worldwide disaster. Still serious – but less than was feared.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 1:55pm

    #16
    asgordon123

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    testing protocol?

    chris..do you know anything about the tests needed to diagnose a positive 2019 novel corona virus?  from what i see on the WHO website it’s quite involved, quite complex and may require many different tests…..

    seems to me its very unlikely that the chinese (during a major outbreak) would have the ability to conduct these extensive tests …..thus leading to way underreported numbers.

    just wondering if you have any insights into the testing procedures and how that may impact the reporting or mis reporting.?

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 2:14pm

    Reply to #10
    BillL

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    Your thoughts are spot on.  It may just take time to see things happen as far as the supply chain goes.

    Many retailers have stocks of inventory of their popular products, but the big problems are how far they are from their supplier and how many customers they have.

    Food is going to be a huge issue if jit supply breaks.  We have seen it before.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 2:24pm

    Reply to #15
    Kgluong

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    Wishful thinking.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 2:56pm

    #17

    westcoastjan

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    if you have to fly be well prepared to be self-sufficient... case point

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/no-running-water-on-air-canada-flight-from-china-during-worsening-coronavirus-outbreak-1.5448946

    This is pathetic and inexcusable. Prepare accordingly people!

    Jan

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 3:03pm

    #18
    Tim Soper

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    From Stat News Article

    From the Stat News article interviewing Dr. Ryan, WHO’s head of their Emergencies Program.

    “Still, numbers of cases are growing in big leaps — China reported 2,102 new cases and 46 additional deaths on Saturday. And those numbers might be higher still but for the fact that China has a backlog of tests to be processed. Ryan said the problem isn’t testing reagents — the country has indicated it has adequate supplies — but the sheer number of tests that need to be run.”

    As he was trying to put the best spin on Coronavirus developments, this seems like a grim admission that the slowing trend of cases isn’t the virus slowing down but the Chinese capability to test.

    Top WHO official says it’s not too late to stop the new coronavirus outbreak

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 3:09pm

    #19
    dryam2000

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    Resiliency

    Mr. Taleb has written a lot about resiliency and how redundancy is very much a part of being resilient.

    We have 2 kidneys for a reason.  A business person would have only built the body with one kidney because the second kidney is not “cost-effective”.   The human body is one of the most redundant systems there is.  Nature knows.  We do not.

    Chris, Adam, and the folks at Peak Prosperity have talked the need resiliency for years given the fragile world we live in.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 3:22pm

    Reply to #5
    LeftCoaster

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    Family thinks I'm exaggerating potential risk

    I know what you mean about your family not taking the info seriously. I Have had to dole out tiny bits of info, to a select few,  so they don’t just disregard everything I am trying to tell them. I am finding it quite frustrating being around people who act like nothing is wrong. Meanwhile, I am just preparing, on my own, and hope family takes a little preparation. Bottom line is I can’t make them prepare or remove their denial. That is an inside job.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 3:49pm

    #20
    M Webber

    M Webber

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    corona targeting

    I have been wondering if any other folks other than Asians have contracted and died from this virus? If not, then this would suggest that the virus was weaponized. Has anyone seen evidence or news reports that non-Asians have also contracted and died from this?

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 3:53pm

    Reply to #1
    fieryeyes

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    He is perfectly clear about Coronavirus in this Q & A

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 3:54pm

    #21
    Ben Burke

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    Taleb chimes in

    Nicholas Taleb is a person who has my trust when it comes to probability… This one-pager appeared on twitter.

    This says it all.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:06pm

    Reply to #5

    George Karpouzis

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    Reply to Pat Auble

    99 percent of Americans can’t mentally accept a pandemic hitting their country. I barely talk about it other than to a select few that are willing to listen. Just prepare yourself accordingly and hope and pray that the chaos stays away from us. Thankfully the flights are stopping so no more spread from abroad.

    If we have an outbreak here in the states and on our local areas then all bets are off. It’s up to you to decide whether you can or should help others that could have helped themselves. Me I have 2 kids so im not very sympathetic to those with deaf ears. Plus I’m locked and loaded if you know what I mean

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:14pm

    #22
    robbie

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    Twitter bans Zerohedge permanently

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-01/zero-hedge-permanently-suspended-from-twitter-for-harassment

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:27pm

    Reply to #1
    Kgluong

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    His analysis on the report of hiv insertion.

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:31pm

    #23
    wheresdavid

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    From South China Morning Post: 45-more-deaths-1921-new-cases

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048575/coronavirus-45-more-deaths-1921-new-cases-reported-hubei

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:50pm

    #24

    Adam Taggart

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    Latest: 14,380 infected, 304 dead

    Latest stats:

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:56pm

    #25

    Adam Taggart

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    Virus Growth Rate Sigmoidal vs Geometric/Exponential?

    With yesterday’s and today’s numbers, the # of infected looks like it may be growing sigmoidally vs geometrically.

    This would be welcome news.

    But before we breathe a sigh of relief, we need more data points to confirm. Also, we don’t yet know how trustworthy the data we *do* have is.

    So take all this with a big grain of salt at the moment.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 4:58pm

    #26
    pat the rat

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    2+2=1

    Any chance that there could be 2 version of the virus in one  ? Any chance that there could be 2 virus inside one big virus?  This could explain why it spreads after recover,only got halve of it.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 5:34pm

    #27
    karenf

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    unbelievable the censoring

    going on on Reddit.  Where can we have free speech anymore?  Where should people go to communicate?  Zerohedge was banned from Twitter.  I feel like the world is fast approaching 1930’s Germany.  The level of propaganda is startling.  Does anybody care?  Does anybody even know about this?  Watch the latest Bachelor or Kardashian.

    We are drugged into stupidity.

    Karen

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 6:23pm

    #28

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Have no idea of the difference between geometric/exponential/sigmoidal? Know I am not the only one so please elaborate on your updates.

    Thank you.

    Granny needs a refresher😀

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 6:29pm

    Reply to #21
    Tim Soper

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    Link to Taleb Paper

    Ben Burke posted a screenshot of a Nassim Nicholas Taleb paper regarding this outbreak. Here’s the link to the paper:

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b68a4e4a2772c2a206180a1/t/5e2efaa2ff2cf27efbe8fc91/1580137123173/Systemic_Risk_of_Pandemic_via_Novel_Path.pdf

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 7:12pm

    Reply to #25

    Quercus bicolor

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    14.5K

    Hi Adam,

    From what I see here, we’re at 14,500 today, up from 11,200 or so yesterday, a daily increase of 3,300 which surpasses the previous maximum daily increase of 2,000.  (Beware, they’re daily chart shows 11,900, which, I believe is the first update from earlier today).  That pushes things back towards exponential.  If that point were on your plot, it would be somewhat closer to the exponential rather than the sigmoidal curve.  From what I’ve seen, though, the numbers are now limited by the maximum diagnosis rate, which is well below the infection rate.  So it’s hard to tell what is really going on.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #29

    dtrammel

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    Second Route Of Virus Spread - Flushing Toilets

    We’ve been focused on masks and protecting ourselves from airborne water droplets from coughs but apparently a second method of the spread of the virus is feces. Infected individuals often experience diarrhea and in the act of using the toilet, cause infected water droplets to be expelled into the air. That indicates we will want to rethink the way we use the bathroom and use the toilet.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-01/coronavirus-lurking-in-feces-may-reveal-hidden-risk-of-spread

    Modern Western toilets and the act of flushing is known to put water droplets into the air of the typical bathroom. Its almost criminal we have the one thing we put in our mouths on a regular basis, our tooth brush, within a few feet of where we poop.

    Here are some changes in habit I think could minimize cross infection and spread, especially if this illness really gets a hold of the general population.

    (I wouldn’t go this extreme until there were several cases in my local area.)

    First off, remove anything like a toothbrush or washing up equipment from your bathroom. Medicinals as well. Get everything out of that room.  Minimize the time and reason you spend in the room.

    Consider taking your clothing off before you enter the bathroom so as to not spread anything. If you are like me and live with a family member (I’m 62 and live with my 60 year old sister) then buy a light robe for each person. Change in private, then disrobe in the bathroom. Poop naked on the toilet, then put it back on before leaving. Short term exposure like this should be ok.

    Bathrooms are often placed next to bedrooms, or with them in the case of master bedrooms. Use these bedrooms as quarantine areas. If need be, move uninfected members’ sleeping arrangements to the living room away from the ill. Hang plastic sheeting to make a air break and separate living areas. Place disinfecting supplies at each separation.

    Prioritize the purchase of toilet paper, bleach and cleaning supplies over food at the beginning. You can go hungry for a limited amount of time. Its unpleasant but not being able to disinfect areas of possible infection might kill you.

    Airborne water droplets when you flush will end up on the floor. Put a medium size plastic tote with a water and bleach solution outside the bathroom. Have a chair to sit in and towels available. Dip your hands in it when you leave and let air dry. Sit and put your feet in it and let your feet soak for a minute, then remove them and let them air dry. Have a separate plastic bag for any towels you use to dry your feet or cover the floor.

    Or have available a specific set of plastic slippers you put on your feet to step into the bathroom, then remove and soak in a bleach water solution when you step out.

    Get two colors of trash bags, one for infected material and one for uninfected material.

    Open the window to your bathroom to provide ventilation, even if it means the room is cold. Perhaps set up a home box fan to blow air into the room when you open the door to push infected air outside. Set up a face mask rack, with individual masks for each person to wear when they use the bathroom. Face masks are degraded primarily through moisture from your breath. Short term usage can extend the life of the mask significantly. Disinfect after you take it off, then let it dry.

    Consider bodily cleaning outside of the bathroom, using a bucket and wash clothes instead of a shower. Use the bath tub as emergency water storage, filling the tub with a good amount of water, then disinfecting with bleach to be used if the water goes out.

    When using the toilet, lay down a paper towel on the top of the water to minimize up splashing when you use it.

    Men, stop peeing standing up. Three feet of airborne droplets versus 3 inches, do the math.

    Close the lid before you flush. Have on hand a spray bottle of a bleach/water solution to spray on all surfaces, flush then promptly leave the room.

    What other suggestions do you have?

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 7:56pm

    #30

    George Karpouzis

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    Whenzhou on lockdown! 400 miles from Wuhan

    Very big news guys. Whenzhou has 9 million people and is hours away from Wuhan. The virus has hit the city so bad that they are on lockdown too

    this is very significant. How much longer until the entire county is infected? This damn virus is just Too infectious. Hate to say it but we are witnessing a full blown disaster. China production will crash through the floor. Shortages throughout the entire world.

    Will we lose control of the virus here in the states? I just can’t say at this point

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 7:58pm

    #31

    Oliveoilguy

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    Posts: 580

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    First Coronavirus Death outside of China

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51345855

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 8:13pm

    #32
    Kgluong

    Kgluong

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    First death outside of china

    First death outside of china.

     

    https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/724482/philippines-confirms-2nd-novel-coronavirus-case-patient-dies/story/

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 8:24pm

    Reply to #29

    Quercus bicolor

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    Bathroom hygiene

    Thanks for that dtrammel.

    I think closing the lid of the toilet before flushing is the single most important suggestion you make.  Some other ideas:

    1. Avoid using public restrooms with commercial toilets that flush under full water pressure rather than from tanks with just a few feet of gravity induced pressure.  Lot’s more fine droplets created with these toilets.
    2. Pee outside when it is reasonable to do so.

    I’m glad we added an 80 cfm quiet energy star rated fan when we remodeled our bathroom.  It replaces the entire air volume of the bathroom in 4 minutes and makes the bathroom a negative pressure environment.  I can adjust it to 110 cfm (under 3 minutes) with a switch on the fan motor housing.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 8:51pm

    Reply to #29
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    Agree about toilets !

    These have always been a horror to me.  My habit, and what I taught my kids is to always close the lid, so everyone when done is putting lids down, male and female, all of the seats and lids.  Lids are down before flushing.  Toothbrushes are kept in the bathroom drawer, not on counter, but of course the towels are hanging up…. but the lid is closed always before flushing.

     

    I had visitors over the holidays and am am amazed that some people leave their toohtbrush hanging over the edge of the main bathroom sink, on the side of the sink between teh sink and the soap and hand towel ring.  Another person left their contact lens case open, and next to the sink, again on the side by the soap and hand towel !  Why not the other side of the sink ?  Why not on the counter further from the sink ? Who wants to have their toothbrush or open contact lens case to get wet hand washing water on them ?  I moved the items, but people do not think.  Besides toiletting, my main bathroom is where handwashing happens when coming into the house, so after mucking a goat stall or cleaning after chickens, or anything and everything.

     

    Which brings me to the kitchen sink.  Every now and then a guest will come in from being outside and go to the kitchen sink to wash ( ? !!)  The kitchen sink is where food is prepared and dishes washed, why bring extra germs there ?  Why not just have one sink to get the dirtiest, germiest washing, which would be in the bathroom since that sink already is used after toileting, so it also should be the sink used to wash up after being out or taking care of animals, etc….

     

    The problem is when out of the house ! Public toilets never have lids, I rush in and out as quick as I can, but there is nothing to be done, I cant have a trip to town and not use a public restroom, we live too far away.

     

    Of course, if things get too infectious out in the greater area, I will cease to go to town at all for a while.

     

    But, the whole public flushing toilet thing has been an irritation to me for quite some time, toilet droplets all over the air and surfaces….

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 8:53pm

    #33

    dtrammel

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    One thing I always do

    Thanks Quercus bicolor. Public toilets usually have no lid, so they have no way to minimize water droplet dispersion. and you are right, they often prioritize flushing over water conservation making the matter worse.

    One thing I’ve always done as a habit is use the restroom before I leave the house on the odd chance my car breaks down. I don’t want to be squatting in a bush when road side assistance pulls up. Not needing to use public restrooms is going to be critical to protecting yourself if this goes to the pandemic stage.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 8:58pm

    #34
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    Sick room/toilet

    I dont see any reason to sterilize feet/shoes when leaving the bathroom since the toilet lid is closed.

    But, if we need to take care of a sick person here, the downstairs bedroom and main bathroom would be set aside for that, and a sheet of plastic covering the entrance to the hallway to them.  And regular bathroom use will shift to the upstairs bathroom, slightly inconvenient, but we all need the exercise anyways.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 9:27pm

    #35

    dtrammel

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    Think Outerspace

    If it comes to a massive public outbreak, I picture it like dealing with outer space. At your entrance of your home, you would set up a covered section where when you came in from the outside you would decloth and don inside garb.

    If not a complete change of clothing, at least removal of your shoes and sanitizing of your hands. Much like the Japanese do with in home sandals. Also demasking and sanitation of any packages or carry-ins.

    If it gets to that point though, we are all completely fraked!

    If the articles are correct and that people who survive the virus, continue to be infectious, then quarantine protocols are useless. Your only choice will be when you get infected and how well you can survive the illness. Your best choice might be to get it early and develop an immunity when you can still go to the hospital if complications are about to kill you.

    At worst case there are not any good options.

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 9:55pm

    Reply to #27
    ao

    ao

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    the censoring has been going on a long, long time

    karenf,

    I understand your sentiments about the censoring completely and share those sentiments.  It’s become very much “in your face” with even the pretense of free speech increasingly falling by the wayside.  But to give you some historical perspective, here’s a speech made in 1883 by John Swinton, chief editorialist of The New York Times and The New York Sun:

    “There is no such a thing in America as an independent press, unless it is out in country towns. You are all slaves. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to express an honest opinion. If you expressed it, you would know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid $150 for keeping honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things. If I should allow honest opinions to be printed in one issue of my paper, I would be like Othello before twenty-four hours: my occupation would be gone. The man who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the street hunting for another job. The business of a New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to villify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same — his salary. You know this, and I know it; and what foolery to be toasting an “Independent Press”! We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the string and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.”

    From Bruce Springsteen’s, “Jack of All Trades”:

    “The banker man grows fatter, the working man grows thin
    It’s all happened before and it’ll happen again”

    By the way, isn’t it interesting that Springsteen’s “Wrecking Ball” album, which spoke about issues of economic injustice and inequality (and repeatedly used biblically-inspired lyrics) and was, in my opinion, one of the best albums in the latter part of his career, was closely followed by and totally eclipsed and supplanted by Miley Cyrus’s “Wrecking Ball” … almost as if planned.  What happened to the copyright laws?  Do ya think Cyrus’s readily identified satanist connections might have anything to do with it?  Nahh, that’s just a crazy conspiracy theory.

     

     

     

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  • Sat, Feb 01, 2020 - 11:08pm

    #36
    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

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    Separate toilet and bathroom

    This may be one area where Australia has done something right for a change: most detached houses are built with separate toilets and bathrooms. (Small flats of course are not.)

    However, most of the time there is no handbasin in the toilet, so people emerge from the loo with dirty hands and must go into the bathroom to wash.

    For some strange but welcome reason, our rather poorly designed house has a washbasin in the toilet. This feature adds a bit extra to the cordon sanitaire that we all may find ourselves setting up.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:24am

    #37
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    New York has a "suspected" case and making a big production of it

    Around 1am we got a special report from the Mayor that a suspected case, recently arrived from China 2 days ago, is being evaluated and treated at Bellevue.  It seems there is a high level of concern about this particular patient amongst the others for whom testing is still pending.

    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/02/01/city-testing-its-first-person-for-coronavirus

    Things are quite tense here after a shocking demonstration at the transportation hubs on Friday where hundreds of masked demonstrators demanded free subway fares and elimination of enhanced police patrols from the subways.  It frightened a lot of people here and didn’t make sense to those I know who live there.  Social mood is tense here as the demonstrators made direct threats and vandalized the subway tracks with spray paint and ticket machines with super glue etc….  It just feels like a setup for more problems.

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/01/31/anti-police-protest/

    Hopefully the patient will be ok.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:39am

    #38
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    THIS VIRUS is 5 TIMES WORSE for ASIAN MALES - Scientists

    This is why the cases outside China are so much less severe. It is because this virus targets the ACE2 Receptors in the lungs. Asian males have 5 times the number of these receptor cells in their lungs. So they are 5 TIMES AS VULNERABLE.

    Very sad news for East Asia. But good news for the rest of the world. This explains a great deal. Take a look at the scientific data below-

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.919985v1.full

    https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/1222540821016326145

    God bless you,

    Andy

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:44am

    #39
    HaikuJr

    HaikuJr

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    Konton

    pandemonium
    the wolf is near or is he
    click cicada click

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:19am

    Reply to #25

    cheapseats

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    Measurement bias

    Adam,

    We can’t know the number of infected, only the number that test positive AND are counted by the Chinese AND made public.  Based on logistical challenges of testing and the reports of mislabeling as pneumonia and undercounting, there is a sizable undercount bias built into the numbers we see.  I think we get more from monitoring the trend.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:42am

    #40
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Posts: 305

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    Misleading, misinformed content on alt-media sites, nCoV as "fear porn": Celente, Mannerino, Prepper Princess

    I’m surprised and dismayed at several respected (albeit “colorful”) alt-media that are providing misleading, misinformed content on their channels, most of which have substantial views/subs. Yesterday I posted on another PP thread re: Prepper Princess’ video, “The Coronavirius…When is it time to panic?”(see:   https://www.peakprosperity.com/the-conoravirus-is-now-an-actual-pandemic/#comment-297507)

    Here are two others:  Greg Mannerino, TradersChoice.net (see:  https://youtu.be/-PdBffsb3Gc)

    and Gerald Celente (Trends Journal) on KitkoNews (see:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlqLU4OoW3w

    “Gerald Celente says coronavirus overhyped despite WHO state of emergency”

    (Daniela did a great job with her very direct, informed interview questions.)

    These are otherwise intelligent people, now parroting stats and views by the MSM (e.g., comparing flu to nCov; citing the relatively “few” numbers of people who have died from nCov).  Ironically, their opinions are based on mistrust for the MSM and TPTB. It is obvious that these alt-media hosts haven’t done even the most basic research into nCoV.  However, many viewers’ comments (respectfully) called the hosts out on their erroneous information, and cited Chris’ nCoV video series and articles, providing links. Yeah!

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:52am

    Reply to #37
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    Posts: 156

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    Mayor NYC, with doctors in the room, says you can't get this from hard surfaces

    Mayor DiBlasio told the city of 10 million that this virus is spread only through “close and sustained contact” (living with the infected person) and that you cannot get it from touching hard surfaces or spending a short period of time with an infected person.

    “De Blasio said the patient was traveling alone and wasn’t sharing a living space with anyone else. So the likelihood of their having infected others is low.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/01/de-blasio-vows-to-alert-public-about-nycs-possible-first-case-of-coronavirus/

    My faith in anything else coming out of his office about this case or any outbreaks has been eliminated.   He lied in the company of physicians who did not speak up.  Had I not heard him say it during tonight’s press conference I wouldn’t have believed it.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:56am

    #41

    davefairtex

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    9+

    SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT of elderly Wuhan virus patient in Thailand

    Executive summary: in Thailand, an anti-flu drug and 2 HIV drugs helped a severely ill elderly female Chinese patient recover in 48 hours following treatment:

    …after finding she had severe symptoms, the doctors decided to use oseltamivir, an anti-flu drug used to treat the Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS), as well as lopinavir and ritonavir, two AIDS drugs.

    “After poor lab tests for 10 days, the test finally turned positive after 48 hours of administering the medications. The treatment, as well as the recovery, is fast,” he said.

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1849024/thai-doctors-say-two-drug-groups-help-cure-patient

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 2:07am

    Reply to #36
    fated

    fated

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    Posts: 61

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    Aussie houses - and houses everywhere

    In response to ezlxq1949.

    Our house is also different to the norm. Due to its age and a blokey shed… We have a toilet in the shed accessible only via its own doorway from the outside – no basin but a tap right near on the outside wall. All well persons will be using that (sharing it with the spiders!) and brushing their teeth in the laundry trough inside the house. It would be rough to send a sick person out there in the dark at night. The ‘main’ and only bathroom contains the ‘in the house’ toilet and of course the basin and shower. Any sick person will be using that and sleeping in the closest bedroom. A sort of quarantine area at the far end of the hallway.

    However, considering the risk of the virus spreading from a single infected person while asymptomatic (and also rumored when recovered) this plan may become null and void as the disease could already have infected all residents of the home. Only time would tell.

    All homes are different and we can all plan accordingly. The basics of good hygiene, isolation and infection control will be challenging to most people no matter what the layout of their home if what  I see at work in ‘trained health professionals’ is any indicator.

    The idea mentioned earlier of clearing out the bathroom is great.  (if it’s not in there it can’t be contaminated and won’t need disinfecting).

    This applies to our home, work and social environments. Time for a tidy up. 😉

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:10am

    #42
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    Posts: 50

    GREAT NEWS About THAT RECOVERED PATIENT - Thailand

    Dave – that is wonderful news about how those drugs helped so much. It is starting to look like Wuhan province is the outlier – and other places should do OK.

    Maybe the economic impact will be worse than the actual virus.

    -Andy

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:42am

    #43

    Chris Martenson

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    Outside of China Death in Philippines

    This seems legit…I’ve found several sources reporting it:

    Again the pattern; (1) male and (2) probably second rate health care.

    I think, so far, with proper, first rate, medical support this can be treated reasonably effectively.  Also, the younger the better, and being female seems to help.

    Which is why I am aghast at the “oh well, the ‘bat’s out of the soup’ might as well allow travel because, money” attitude.

    Getting first rate medical support means not having an overloaded medical system.

    Wuhan is completely swamped – this still is taken from Fang Bin’s bravely shot video that leaked out of China yesterday:

    That’s what ‘treatment’ looks like in a swamped hospital system.

    This was a very tough video to watch so full warning, this is only for those who can absorb the reality of the situation – Link to Video one Youtube

    It shows 8 body bags stacked in what looks like a hospitality bus, and many critically ill people and even more deaths inside the hospital.  Within hours of this being uploaded, Fang Bin recorded ‘health officials’ banging on his door demanding to ‘take his temperature’ and to place him in isolation.  That was the last he’s been heard from.

    Very disturbing.

    He risked his life to get this video out and it confirms my worst fears and the the death toll is almost certainly complete garbage.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:58am

    Reply to #30

    Chris Martenson

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    Wenzhou rioting

    There are numerous reports of “rioting” in Wenzhou.  I’ve only been able to source two videos from that rioting so I don’t know if that’s too strong of a term.

    (Source – Harry Chen on Twitter)

    But it’s clear that the social control of the CCP is being tested.  From what I know of China’s history it is one of long periods of absolute control interrupted by brief social cataclysms that upend everything.

    So, yeah, if that happens here then the global just-in-time remote mfg “strategy” is going to crash to a halt.

    So sorry about your supply chains!  It’s unpredictable in its effects except to say “things will simplify.”

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 4:11am

    #44
    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

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    Problem Reaction Solution

    Problem- awful virus that’s spreading worldwide Reaction- we are doing all we can and millions are gonna die. Solution- we have a another vaccine, let’s make it mandatory and why not just make the other ones also. Place your bets

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 4:19am

    #45
    Nate

    Nate

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    CAF podcast

    Investment advisor and former Assistant Secretary of Housing Catherine Austin Fitts says she is less worried about the coronavirus and more worried about what happens to China’s economy. Fitts explains, “Whatever is going on, it is going to slow down the Chinese economy. If China slows down a lot, it is going to put them in a dollar bear trap. The thing that kept the global economy going after the bailouts were the Chinese, and the Chinese did that by levering. A lot of that debt is dollar based. So, now if their income shrinks, especially after the trade war with the U.S. administration, they are going to be in a dollar trap. That means it’s (dollar) going to be stronger than if this would not have happened.”  In short, China will need dollars to pay debt, supporting the dollar.

    Fitts goes on to say, “From everything I have heard so far . . . the virus is not my concern for the Western world. My concern is the vaccine. So, I am extremely concerned about Nano technology and vaccine injury. The process to push for vaccine mandates has been very extreme. . . . Why are we seeing such a heavy push for heavy schedules of vaccines and mandates for vaccines, which is in violation of the Nuremberg code and the U.S. Constitution?”

    Fitts says people need to get ready for dramatic challenges coming, and she says the theme for common citizens is “to become less dependent and more resilient.”

    https://usawatchdog.com/china-now-in-dollar-bear-trap-catherine-austin-fitts/

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 4:34am

    #46
    karenf

    karenf

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    Shouldn't we be seeing more cases outside of China?

    Hi Chris – I am just wondering what you are thinking about what seems to me a fairly low case load outside of China.  For this to be really spreading, shouldn’t we be hearing about more diagnosis daily with numbers increasing?  Instead there is silence.  Could this really just be horror inside China but not a problem for the rest of the world?  I know it is probably too early to tell for sure but things still seem to not be spreading as much as expected outside the country.

    Karen

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 5:34am

    #47
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    OUTSIDE CHINA - THIS THING is LOOKING BETTER

    As noted above, Scientists now tell us that it is Asian males who are 5 times more vulnerable to this virus. So little wonder that we see far less severity outside China. In fact, even in China it is Wuhan province that is really bad. Other provinces have a much lower death rate.

    BTW – the one death in the Philippines was a Chinese male.

    Overall, you can see that this thing may not be too bad outside China.

    God bless,

    -Andy.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 5:44am

    Reply to #47
    brianwilliams82

    brianwilliams82

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    Posts: 8

    Andy, that does appear to look better for non-Asians

    But I’d defo like to see Chris’s take on it. If true, though, what about Asian communities abroad? In my country there’s a lot of Vietnamese – how bad could they get it and what kind of risk would they pose for those outside of their community?

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 6:13am

    Reply to #38

    lambertad

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    Peer reviewed study on ACE

    Andy,

    Thanks for taking the time to provide your input on this very important topic, however, I can’t help but notice how you have essentially lectured Chris for hyperbole and saying there is not enough data to support some of his claims. You tell him to be “balanced”. Now I see you are posting NON-PEER REVIEWED papers and claiming Asian males have 5x the ACE2 that other have. Are you sure? Can you produce any PEER REVIEWED papers substantiating this claim? Are you being balanced or were you just looking for some evidence to support your view that this will not be a global epidemic, and now that you found ANY evidence, you’re resolute in your claim that this will not be a big deal outside of China?

    May I suggest continuing to prepare as this virus has a CFR of ~3-10%, especially among males > 50 years old.

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 6:18am

    #48

    Chris Martenson

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    Looks like China is taking this **super** seriously

    This is approaching 100 on the state panic level.  That’s how it looks to me:

    As always – caveat – found this on the internet, not verified, might not be true, could be misreported, etc and so forth.

    But, if true, I cannot think of why this would be the case unless the CCP authorities are extremely worried about this virus.

    As of yet, I have to good explanation for why it has not yet traveled outside of China.  Could be that Asians, and particularly Chinese are more susceptible?

    Still working on that…

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 7:36am

    Reply to #48

    davefairtex

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    13+

    state panic

    The state panic level – “if true” – is probably what drove Trump to pull the plug on Chinese travelers.  No doubt the NSA owns their communications networks and they have a really good idea of the level of panic in the leadership over there.

    Our intel agencies don’t need chapter and verse to decide that – if they are panicked, we should probably not act as if it was business as usual.

    A friend of mine had to travel to a mainland city this weekend.  Don’t ask me why, I think it was crazy, but he’s spent years in third world countries and lived through revolutions and war zones – he is definitely a hardier fellow than I am.  Anyhow, he wrote to me and said that the city was a ghost town, there was very little food, and he talked about a 3-day fast being actually useful for – I forget what.  Some damn thing.

    I’ll debrief him thoroughly next time I see him.  After he has passed the quarantine period.  He is a very sharp observer of people and cultures, and should have some interesting perspectives.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 7:50am

    #49
    schmidtma01

    schmidtma01

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    Longer lag time in symptom onset to death

    I just ran across this article in the Journal of Medical Virology , which analyzed the first 56 deaths of 1,975 cases (as of 1/25 – obviously a lot of end results still pending). Authors found a median time of symptom onset to death of 14 days, with it shorter (11.5 days) among those 70 years and older than among those younger (20 days).

    This seems to be substantially longer than the time lag Chris uses when cautioning everyone not to trust the current CNN-based CFR. If true, this could explain why we’ve so far seen so few deaths outside of China… we simply haven’t followed most of them long enough yet; and could indicate a more serious CFR than even assumed.

    Fourteen days ago was 1/19. This Bloomberg article shows that the number of officially-reported cases on 1/20 (first day noted) was 291. There’s no way to accurately “do the math” as there are now more deaths reported than cases officially reported at that time. However, this data point is corroborated by calculating CFR as deaths/(deaths+recovered), which is still running at about 50%. Even if the true case count is 20x what is being reported and even if every one of those unreported cases does not result in death, that could lead to a CFR of around 2.5%. As a reminder, this is 2.5x higher than the worst case scenario involved in all previous CDC pandemic influenza planning.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 8:18am

    Reply to #44
    BillL

    BillL

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    Exactly borderpatrol.

    They will hype and ramp this deal up until they are completely satisfied with the results and bam!

    “We have a comprehensive CV vaccine available for all to save your life and are here to help.”

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 8:24am

    #50
    PokerBear

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    Quite a few breadcrumbs...

    Doesn’t it seem funny that there’s a patent to bio-engineer a coronavirus’s spike-protein, which was done by Chinese scientists at UNC once already making an extraordinarily virulent coronavirus, and now this Wuhan coronavirus strain seems to have small bits of HIV spliced into its spike-protein’s genes, and is responding to a cocktail of anti-HIV drugs?

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 8:35am

    Reply to #21

    Barbara

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    link to taleb article

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b68a4e4a2772c2a206180a1/t/5e2efaa2ff2cf27efbe8fc91/1580137123173/Systemic_Risk_of_Pandemic_via_Novel_Path.pdf

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 8:39am

    #51
    dfjhumanist

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    In response to MSM articles that might be implying that PeakProsperity’s articles are alarmist, there’s this excerpt from an MSN article:

    “Projecting optimism and confidence, if you don’t have the data, is a very dangerous strategy,” said Alexandra Phelan, a faculty research instructor in the department of microbiology and immunology at Georgetown University.

    “It undermines the legitimacy of the government in messaging,” she added. “And public health is dependent on public trust.”

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:10am

    #52
    Jeff

    Jeff

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    Fasting and cell regeneration

    Davefairtex,

    A 3 day fast(in theory) will start a process called autophagy.  Autophagy is basically cellular cleansing.  Your body is starving so it goes after damaged cells, including immune cells.  Upon eating(healthy food) your body kicks in and releases stem cells to regenerate a new team of cells.  From what I understand it’s theoretical.  I personally do 2 per year, it’s difficult, but feel great after.  I do suggest working up to it however.  Detox pathways definitely kick in and if your body has not properly adjusted you will most likely feel pretty horrible, n=1.  Fasting can also be a resilience modifier, if you have experience fasting, it’s not as big a deal if you get forced into it.  Tread lightly, but I feel once established it’s both liberating and healthy.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:27am

    #53
    jerryr

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    Peer reviewed study on ACE-2 and ethnicity?

    The geographic distribution of the ACE II genotype: A novel finding

    Genetics Research 89(4):259-67 · September 2007 (via researchgate.net)

    It seems that the ethnic & geographical distribution of the ACE II gene has been extensively studied. This paper includes a table citing many earlier studies. The studies indicate that the ACE II genotype frequency is around 40% to 50% in East Asian populations; 15% to 25% in most European (Caucasian) populations; and less than 10% in the Arab populations sampled.

    So this doesn’t support the 5x difference claimed by Andy S, but it might indicate that Asian populations will be hardest hit by this coronavirus.

    I should add that I’m not really qualified to even read papers on the topic! I’m not sure if ACE-2 and ACE-II are the same thing, for example.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:51am

    #54
    schmidtma01

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    There is no reason for Americans to Panic

    Well, shit.

    For those who are well-familiar with the philosophy that nothing is unofficially confirmed until officially denied, a.k.a. “when it becomes serious, you have to lie,” this could be the most clear signal yet that the time to prepare is running short. Funny, though… if enough Americans were panicking that they had to trot out an official, one would think there would have been at least one article posted about it on Facebook since last weekend. Just one! But so far, still, crickets.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:58am

    Reply to #29
    SincerelyYours

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    can someone please make a cheat sheet?

    this is overwhelming. It would be nice to have a simple cheat sheet with step by step instructions. Like 1) supplies to stock up on (for 3? months) 2) household sanitation process 3) home care (if someone gets sick)… i’m trying to put that together…or has someone already done so? thanks

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 10:09am

    #55

    Afridev

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

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    A thought

    A thought, maybe covered earlier on PP, sorry if this is a repeat.

    Looking at the data from https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

    If we take ratio ‘death’ divided by ‘confirmed’ (I know, the 2 cannot be compared directly, just fooling around with figures):

    Hubei: 3.2

    Only one, Heilongjian (95 confirmed, 2 death) comes near with 2.1 (and that’s a very small sample, so not a reliable figure). The sample size of Philippines with 2 confirmed, 1 death can’t really be considered.

    Hubei was ground zero for the outbreak, so it’s front-running the other places. Probably by quite a lot.

    Data is certainly not reliable (even if every step in the detection and reporting chain would be timely and dependable it’s impossible to have reliable data).

    I wonder if this could mean something; out-of-control vs in-control (i.e. quality of care that can be given), data is more reliable in other places (i.e. better diagnosis/ reporting of infections), higher lethality of the virus in Hubei (would that be possible already? virulence can change over the course of epidemics; e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3597519/), very late onset of complications that lead to death?

    Would be interesting if we could compare this ratio between different places at comparable phases of the outbreak. Maybe nothing to see from this angle, don’t know.

    One thing I’m also wondering about is that, with all Chinese in Africa, no cases in Africa yet? I would assume that many cases would go under the radar (as they would elsewhere), but no cases at all?

    Just some lose thoughts…

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 10:16am

    #56
    Lions

    Lions

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    Regarding Judy Stone of infectious disease

    This woman is a real degraded being – No  traffic with reason whatsoever. She is the Ben Bernanke of infectious disease.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 11:11am

    Reply to #51
    robbie

    robbie

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    You mean like this? Welcome to the first woke pandemic.

    Chinatown’s Lunar New Year celebrations happening as planned amid coronavirus concerns

    https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/chinatowns-lunar-new-year-celebrations-happening-planned-amid-coronavirus-concerns/RRAWWNU4QRGHDLJNLVF33KNDXM

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 11:12am

    Reply to #29
    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Cheat sheet

    If you put together a cheat sheet you would do a great service to us all.

    We’ve been working on menu planning. We normally keep quite a full pantry, especially in winter storm season, but it was out of balance if we had to live out of our supplies for an extended period. A year’s supply of some things, but others running low! So, we’ve been shopping to fill the gaps. Our aim is to have supplies on hand for two months of reasonably well-balanced meals even without fresh supplies, then we’ll add to that as we go. Ditto for cleaning supplies etc.. It’s all normal groceries … just better organized than usual!

    ——-

    On a different note, I’m seeing lots of pictures of people in masks and goggles, but with bare hands. What are the pros and cons of wearing gloves?

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 11:34am

    Reply to #55
    Sparky1

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    Underreporting of nCoV cases in Africa, US

    I, too, have found it very unusual that there are no suspected or confirmed cases out of Africa, where there are a lot of Chinese.

    Also, there is likely underreporting of suspected, confirmed cases in the US as the CDC leaves it to state and local health departments to determine if/what information they release to the public.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 11:46am

    Reply to #55
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    Don’t know but it is winter in China and the other affected areas. Maybe this thing is seasonal.  Some viruses are temperature dependent and transmit better in the cold. Wondering about Africa too for the same reason.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:32pm

    #57
    FooBarr

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    Intrigued by comments regarding 3-day fast & Autophagy--Interested in any PP-member personal experience with such.

    Anybody got personal experience with fasting and autophagy?  is there any medical experts who could advise on where in the influenza infection-and-recovery cycle would a patient want to fast?

    Did a quick search and here are some interesting videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr_3eTC8FvY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10jNZleNH9w

    Sounds like High Intensity Training HIT can also be accomplished during the fasting session increasing the effect?

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:36pm

    #58

    cheapseats

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    Confirmed - genetically engineered in Wuhan

    Looks like they were working on it in the lab in Wuhan in 2010 and published about it. Idiots.  https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00705-010-0729-6

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:44pm

    Reply to #57
    SincerelyYours

    SincerelyYours

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    learn about the health-promoting properties of fasting

    In response to the question above fasting — one of the world’s leading experts on water-only fasting is Dr. Alan Goldhamer at the TrueNorth Health Center in Santa Rosa. https://www.healthpromoting.com Dr. Michael Klaper https://www.doctorklaper.com worked there for many years (and now teaches nutrition in medical schools) knows a thing or two about fasting. Dr. Valter Longo at USC has done extensive research into fasting and has created something called the “fasting mimicking diet” https://valterlongo.com

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 12:52pm

    Reply to #57
    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

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    Re: periodic fasting possible role

    In response to the post, I am a functional medicine physician who uses a lot of periodic fasting in my practice. Given that ARDS is one of the biggest concerns, fasting and the ketogenic diet could both be used to reduce the immune system “overresponse” that can result in ARDS.

    I researched this a bit in order to counsel my patients. I found that in the sickest coronavirus patients, the innate immune system is likely overreacting (not being properly regulated) causing exaggerated damage in the lungs. The way I see it, the concept of “cytokine storm” does not indicate an immune system that is robust, but rather one that is malfunctioning and not properly regulated.

    We know that such an immune system results in inflammation, which is an underlying factor in most chronic diseases, from arthritis, to cardiovascular disease, diabetes, depression, autoimmune disease, Alzheimer’s, and apparently ARDS.

    One of the key players are mitochondria, and something called the NLRP3 inflammasome. When it’s stimulated, it leads to inflammation, organ damage, and ARDS. Inhibiting the NLRP3 inflammasome improves these conditions. The ketogenic diet and periodic fasting inhibit this inflammasome and should be expected to be helpful (you may get the virus and not have a severe course – that’s the hope).

    There are many kinds of fasting: the simplest is a 14 hour overnight interval (say from dinner at 6pm to breakfast no sooner than 8am). Or you can skip breakfast (or dinner) altogether. Or you can have a day of eating very little (say 400 calories, mostly vegan) one or two days each week. Or you can have a full-fledged “fasting-mimicking diet” FMD, which is a 5-day low calorie, low protein, vegan diet. A 4-day water only fast would work too, but has some drawbacks.

    The FMD is an invention by Dr. Valter Longo that has a ton of very good research published in highly respectable journals such as Nature. It indeed caused autophagy, and mitophagy, and stimulates stem cells, which are then ready for the period of “refeeding” that follows FMD. One can purchase a kit with which to do FMD (called ProLon kit), or figure out how to design one’s own. Of course the research is done on the kit so you are not guaranteed to be on target if you invent your own (BTW I don’t work for the company that makes the ProLon kit). My favorite Longo video is with Dr. Mark Hyman on The Doctor’s Farmacy.

    I hope this helps. I think some of these “lifestyle” ways to improve the right functioning of our immune system (rather than consuming a high sugar, high processed food diet) would be helpful in allowing us to better than the average person in this epidemic. I plan to post a link to the newsletter I will be sending my patients tomorrow with additional information on inhibiting the NLRP3 inflammasome.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:09pm

    Reply to #58
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Chris, would you pls read this and provide your informed perspective?

    Cheapseats, thanks for sharing this. Very interesting. I’d like Chris’ informed perspective on this study.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:51pm

    #59
    vshelford

    vshelford

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    mutations

    It occurs to me to note that, whatever the greater or lesser degree of susceptibility of different populations to the current version of this virus, as Chris has pointed out, once it is out and about (which it obviously is), it could easily, we might almost say inevitably, mutate to forms which will find other populations more to its taste.  This story still feels like it’s a lot closer to the beginning than the end.  Just a little ray of sunshine…

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:55pm

    Reply to #55
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

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    Winter and viral disease

    My approach is based on sunshine exposure of our skin produces D 3 which boosts our immune system. In winter with less direct sunshine supplements of D3 are a good solution.

    I’ve done that for the last 5 years—no flu shots, no flu, no colds.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 1:58pm

    #60
    annepan001

    annepan001

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    Chinese economy gets $173bn boost to maintain a stable currency market during the epidemic

    China’s central bank has announced that it will inject 1.2 trillion yuan ($173bn) into the economy to help deal with the outbreak of coronavirus.

    The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) said in a statement it would launch a 1.2 trillion-yuan reverse repurchase operation on Monday to maintain “reasonable and abundant liquidity” in the banking system, as well as a stable currency market, during the epidemic.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/china-coronavirus-deaths-infections-jump-latest-updates-200202000738703.html

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 2:07pm

    #61

    George Karpouzis

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    10+

    4th California Case Confirmed Santa Cruz

    We now have 4 confirmed cases in my home state.

    Also, just learned that the American in Vietnam who is confirmed infected had a 2 hour lay over in Wuhan on Jan 15. He was hospitalized Jan 31 in Vietnam. I mean WTF

    It took him 2 hours in an airport to get infected. Then showed no symptoms for 15 days later. Incredible.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 2:17pm

    Reply to #57
    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

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    D3 strengthens the immune system; Omega 3 fatty acids can help control excessive inflammatory response.

    More nutritional/inflammation considerations: Also take vitamin D3; most people are deficient [there are few dietary sources]. And the omega 3 fatty acids EPA and DHA, preferably in triglyceride form that occur naturally in fish oil. ALA is good too, but the body needs EPA & DHA the most. These help modulate the inflammatory response.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 2:58pm

    #62
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Travis AFB, 3 other US bases to house up to 250 quarantined through 2/29/20

    “Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield was tapped to be one of four U.S. military bases on standby to house overseas travelers who may need to be quarantined.

    The Pentagon approved a Department of Health and Human Services request for facilities capable of housing at least 250 people in individual rooms through Feb. 29, according to announcement Saturday on the base’s Facebook page.

    “The other three installations selected to house evacuees are the 168th Regiment, Regional Training Institute in Fort Carson, Colorado; Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas; and the Marine Corps Air Station Miramar, California, according to a statement from Jonathan Rath Hoffman, assistant to the Secretary of Defense for public affairs.”

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/02/travis-air-force-base-in-north-bay-one-of-four-u-s-bases-to-house-coronavirus-evacuees/

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:06pm

    Reply to #57
    bethiew

    bethiew

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    FooBarr, I have been intermittent fasting for over 2 years.  I started out doing 18 hour daily fasts (just water, black coffee, no sweetners, cream, etc).  I then worked up to 20 hour daily fasts then one meal a day.  I have done many 42 hour fasts.  Some 72 hour fasts.  For the last year I have been doing regular dry fasts (this is VERY controversial).  My longest dry fast was 84 hours.  This means no food, no liquid.  Dry fasting is supposed to increase autophogy.  I went from being obese with a sleep disorder, anxiety, high BP, and who knows what else to now being in perfect health with incredible energy and no loose skin at the end of the process. I will fast/dry fast for the rest of my life.  This is a lifestyle, not a diet.  My plan while this virus appears to be gaining steam is to do 2-3 full day fasts per week with at least one of them completely dry.  Example eat until dinner Sunday night -fast till lunch Tuesday.  Fasting takes your body time to get used to but then it is easy.  On my eating days I plan to use copious amounts of Vit C and raw garlic as well as other supplements.  I’m not a doctor and would never suggest anyone else do these things but they have been life changing for me.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:08pm

    Reply to #62
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Posts: 305

    Odd, no East coast military facilities for quarantined travelers identified.

    That might change in due time, of course.

    Does this bring the total identified military facilities for quarantine to 5, including March AFB in Riverside, CA?

    Maybe some of the 15 “missing” Americans from the original 210 that left on the Wuhan rescue flight that never arrived in California’s March AFB were re-routed to these other facilities.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:21pm

    Reply to #55
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Posts: 925

    FWIW

    the novel corona virus doesn’t like heat? Africa? Go figure.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:27pm

    #63
    Matties

    Matties

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    New evidence emerges: Coronavirus contain “pShuttle-SN” sequences, proving laboratory origin

    In fact, if you then take that sequence and compare it to other proteins, we find that it’s actually a SARS protein that was put into a coronavirus for the purpose of making the vaccine work better. That’s why this element is in there, to create a more reactogenic vaccine.

     

    Why does it matter whether the origin was a Chinese vaccine experiment vs. a bioweapon? As previous research has revealed, when these SARS insertions into the coronavirus are introduced into animal as part of a vaccine, they create heightened fatalities when patients are exposed to other coronavirus strains.

     

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-02-coronavirus-bioweapon-chinese-vaccine-experiment-gone-wrong-pshuttle-sn-gene-sequence.html

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:34pm

    #64

    Adam Taggart

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    2+

    Latest: 16,758 infected, 361 dead

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/who-warns-countries-should-prepare-local-outbreaks-pentagon-readies-quarantine-housing

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 3:35pm

    #65
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    China - Nat'l Health Commission mandates rapid cremation for all confirmed, suspected nCoV deaths (2/1/20)

    Immediately upon death of confirmed or suspected nCoV patients/citizens, corpses are placed in sealed enclosures (i.e., body bags) which remain unopened through transport and cremation. Bodies enclosed, then family notified (if not present), can give permission for cremation–if not, then authorities can over ride and cremate remains regardless. No viewing, farewells, or ceremonies; families get deceased’s ashes and certificate.

    The Commission’s notice outlines respective roles, responsibilities and protocols for handling the deceased and for ensuring the safety of medical and funeral personnel.

    Source, FluTrackers, h/t Hawkeye

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 4:01pm

    #66
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Posts: 305

    Coast Guard, Lousiana Health Dept. screening vessels for last 5 ports, any symptomatic on board

    The screening for nCoV are based on self-report of illness, obvious symptoms (e.g., fever), and whether last 5 ports of call were from infected areas. Screening and quarantine might impact trade.

    “The Coast Guard, both here locally, as well as nationally are supporting efforts to protect and mitigate the impact of the coronavirus here in the United States. Part of those mitigation efforts include assessing advance notice of arrival from vessels,” said Edwards. “We’re assessing to determine whether or not their last five port of calls have been in areas that have been impacted by the virus, as well as requiring vessel operators to report any ill crew members or passengers a minimum of 15 days prior to the arrival in any U.S. port.”

    Edwards said information about illnesses is provided to a federal health agency.
    “The vessel operators are required to report any illnesses to the CDC,” said Edwards.

    “…according to the Port of New Orleans, it saw 396,876 short tons of general cargo imported from China during fiscal year 2019, and in fiscal year 2018, it said it saw 359,097 short tons of general cargo imported from China.”

    https://www.fox8live.com/2020/02/01/coast-guard-la-health-department-take-steps-wake-coronavirus-concerns/

     

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 4:17pm

    #67

    Adam Taggart

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    7+

    Back Closer To Geometric Growth Curve

    With today’s data of nearly 17k confirmed infected, the Wuhan coronavirus’ spread is back closer to a geometric/exponential trajectory:

    If that remains the case, expect these totals to get huge (hundreds of thousands, then millions) within the next two weeks. And the markets to really start puking hard.

    Usual caveat: this is the only data we have at this point, many believe the Chinese government is underreporting, government efforts to slow the spread may become more effective, etc, etc.

    Take with the usual boulder of salt.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 4:49pm

    Reply to #58

    Mots

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 128

    8+

    No Cheapseats, Not "confirmation" of Genetically Engineered in Wuhan

    The inflammatory comment by Cheapseats that asserts that incriminating research was carried out at “the” Wuhan research facility in 2010 is very misleading.

    1. The referred to research paper describes research carried out in a P2 Australian animal laboratory, 10 years ago.
    2. As I understand from reading other places, the Chinese scientist now at the new Wuhan P4 lab that was opened 1 year ago and doxxed by Zerohedge was recruited to work in China about 8 years after this was published.  Wuhan had a natural reason to spend money on a P4 lab and to study its native DNA, and the relationship with SARS.  In fact, all of China has been on an incredible and immense R&D spending spree the last few years and it would be strange if they did NOT study bat sequences.   I know for a fact that many if not most Chinese scientists are returning to China to participate in the biggest R&D push in human history, occurring now in China. Every province of China is pouring tons of money on R&D to study its own particular environment and resources.  It is very natural for China to put its new P4 facility in Wuhan and very natural to study both SARS and bat sequences there.  In fact, they would be fools not to, in consideration of the incredibly large amount of money they have for now to explore the universe, whether it be exploring the back side of the moon, putting people into space for a moon landing, sequencing all important organisms that they can, and figuring out how infectious disease agents work.  They have pulled ahead of the West in many crucial areas of applied science and technology because of this.  Very much like what happened in Japan in the 1970s and 1980s, but about 10-20 times larger.  This is an untold story and interesting subject on its own.  They pay old scientists like me without a university position to fly out and join conferences at their expense many times the last 2 years just so that we might have an idea or contribution to their immense ongoing new scientific and engineering enterprises.  People in the West have no idea how much more effort the Chinese are putting into science and technology compared to the rest of the world. This extends to all fields, whether AI, molecular biology, big data etc.

    I agree with Twitter for banning Zerohedge, as it was inappropriate to give the researcher’s email address and phone number to the public as a target of corona virus anger.  If zerohedge thought it was doing a criminal investigation, it would have given its results to a relevant police hotline or national health agency.  One can speculate where this engineered virus came from based on two questions: 1. Qui bono?  (who benefits) and 2. where could the engineering have been done?  The answer to these two questions extend to other continents, and I dont mean Australia.

    3.  The research that Cheapseats refers to served an important research purpose and in fact did not create a frankenvirus.  Here is a comment by another researcher on this very subject:
    “The study had nothing at all to do with increasing the infectiousness of SARS. The study was about how SARS binds to the ACE2 receptor. A pseudovirus is an inert virus that can be used in a low level security lab BSL2, where only aseptic technique and HEPA filter bio-cabinet is needed.  The HIV-1 pseudovirus was given a bioluminescence gene from a firefly (luciferase) and the binding protein from SARS. It was done this way, so the SARS virus binding to ACE2 could be observed due to illumination. The HIV-1 was simply the carrier for the bioluminescence.”

    I understand the extreme need for entertainment and also for satisfying natural curiosity.  Valid reasons why we are all here.  But cheap shots at others’ expense and at our expense (merely serving to increase our own bigotry and ignorance) is unacceptable.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 5:35pm

    Reply to #61
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 199

    2+

    Where did you see the info on a case in santa cruz ?

    A little close to home, so would love more info

    My first “guess” would be University of CA Santa Cruz ?  But, there are actually many junior high and high school aged exchange students in the area

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 7:39pm

    #68
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 305

    2+

    NYT: Wuhan overwhelmed by nCoV; extreme lack of supplies, testing, access to care

    “Coronavirus Pummels Wuhan, a City Short of Supplies and Overwhelmed” (Source)

    I’m surprised at the candor of this NYT article (with photos), and that it made it past China’s censors. I hope the named individuals in the article do not suffer repercussions for criticizing the government and health care system (“spreading rumors”).

    The situation is indeed grim and getting progressively worse. Given what we know, it is hard to believe any of the nCoV figures being reported by Chinese officials and their media mouthpieces.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 7:53pm

    Reply to #58

    cheapseats

    Status Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 19

    Mots - Yup

    The researcher who inserted HIV into coronavirus 9  years ago worked at the lab in Wuhan.  Now a novel coronavirus with non random HIV genes as described in his paper emerges in Wuhan.  I consider this confirmation of the Indian paper, and that this is an engineered virus.  It also sounds like you have a financial incentive (plane flights, conference attendance) to believe this is not confirmation.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 8:46pm

    #69
    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 84

    Elliott Wave pattern

    Someone mentioned the case numbers seemed to fit a Fibonacci sequence.  If sigmoidal pattern happening, now, the final pattern of number of cases will probably fit an Elliott wave 1-2-3 or a 1-2-3-4-5 pattern.  Many years ago I noticed this studying a small pox epidemic. So it’s not over till it’s over.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 8:53pm

    #70
    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 84

    1+

    HIV plus Corona virus drugs

    Drug combination seems to be working in some cases.  Good.  However, the speed of spread may overwhelm the drug supply, availability and cost. This cure news may foster even more complacency in US.  If people not panicking, gives me a little more prep time.  I am planning on isolation, just quietly increasing my supplies.  Keep on prepping.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:12pm

    Reply to #57
    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 84

    2+

    Bethiew, Way to go

    Last summer I was on ketogenic diet plus fasting.  Went into planned major surgery in ketosis.  Went very well.  I think keeping blood sugar low is good.  I fell off the wagon this winter, but I am geared up to start back ketogenic this week.

    Even fasting one day a week saves over a month and a half of food.  Kudos!

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:37pm

    Reply to #57
    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 84

    Dr. Ashe, Good info.

    Please put me on your newsletter email list.  [email protected]

    I am starting back on ketogenic diet and fasting this week.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:42pm

    #71

    saxplayer00o1

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3082

    1+

    Getting symptoms "a few weeks" after returning from China

    2 cases of coronavirus confirmed in San Benito County, bringing U.S. total to 11

    “[The husband] was screened at the airport per the quarantine rules at the time and was found to be totally healthy and asymptomatic, so nothing was going on with him at the time,” said Dr. Marty Fenstersheib, the San Benito County Health Officer.

    However, a few weeks after he returned from China, the husband and wife started feeling symptoms of the virus and called health officials, according to KSBW. The husband reported having a cough and fever.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 9:49pm

    #72

    saxplayer00o1

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3082

    2+

    Another reason you will need to wash your hands frequently

    Coronavirus detected on doorknob in S. China’s Guangzhou

    Scientists in south China’s Guangzhou on Sunday detected the nucleic acid of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) on a doorknob at the house of a patient diagnosed with the disease, according to an official for the Disease Control and Prevention Center in Guangzhou, the capital city of Guangdong Province.

    In addition, other areas prone to contamination include mobile phones, keyboards and faucet handles, added the official.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 10:10pm

    #73

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 547

    The Nation is Naive

    Why do we automatically assume that when someone goes to the Hospital feeling ill that they will be properly added to the database if they indeed have the nCoV virus?  More likely, it would seem to me the question would be, do you have insurance?  Or, sorry the insurance wont cover the nCov test. But, if they can obtain such a test that will be $1,000 please.  Its a fantasy to think that processes are in place to test, process and accurately keep track of patients that have symptoms familiar to other routine illnesses.

    Its just like going shopping and believing that we just happened to shop on a day that has a really good sale.

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  • Sun, Feb 02, 2020 - 10:38pm

    Reply to #58
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Posts: 305

    1+

    Cheapseats and Mots: agreement and conjecture

    Nice to see you two getting along so swimmingly.  😉  It appears that you agree that nCoV is a genetically engineered (ge) virus, but you differ in your opinions regarding its source/origins.  IMO, your arguments regarding source/origins are conjecture, as are the motives (e.g., financial incentives, bigotry) you ascribe to each other for holding those opinions regarding the source/origins.

    Given such sparse and questionable data, it is difficult to come to anywhere close to validating anything about this n/geCoV.  It is also difficult to ascertain the motives of others based on a few posts in a virtual, on-line environment.  Seems to me there must be a more productive way for you two to go about discussing the potential and implications of a geCoV that will benefit each other and the larger PP community.

    (‘Just my two cents’ worth.)

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 12:33am

    Reply to #58

    Mots

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 128

    3+

    Sparky's agreement and conjecture

    lol
    1. there is no evidence for any conclusion for blame
    2. even if there were evidence for a conclusion (accident, or intentional release), such knowledge is useless and has no real import.  The TPTB determine the narrative regardless of truth, whether it is Epstein killing himself, Seth R getting robbed, a third building coming down on its own footprint because of office furniture that caught fire on 9/11 or what have you……

    It is important not to blame other people or cultures and to respect their accomplishments, particularly in a world where wealth creation and wealth creators are denigrated or not respected.  That was the import of my message.  In my first comment on this topic I had thought that maybe someone might have made a mistake over there, and that they had to deal with it and are paying dearly for it.  The Chinese society is becoming damaged and might even fracture regardless of the blame game.  No need to lecture or discuss motivations or whatever.
    The wealth creators are the prime movers in the real world and we are either pursuing our own Peak Prosperity with our gardens and small communities, or else we are spectators.  No need to denigrate people who are trying to succeed in making the world a better place.  I dont think it was right for zerohedge to doxx a researcher.  A media organization is not a judge and executioner and neither is anyone here.

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 2:32am

    #74
    Matties

    Matties

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    Posts: 98

    1+

    Mots : Creating dangerous virussen in leaky labs is ok

    Well done, you have saved the world again Mots. Ask the Chinese or ask the Japanese a little later on in this game because the ACEII distribution suggests they are extremely vulnerable for this virus. Ask all the vaccine damaged people in the US. I’m sure they are thankful.

    Maybe you should consider our thoughts about this and not pick on somebody ringing the alarm.

    Maybe you should go to Wuhan and help them out.

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 5:26am

    Reply to #57
    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

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    Joined: Feb 21 2017

    Posts: 36

    2+

    Respiratory ARDS is an acute condition

    ARD’s is just an inflammatory response not an over response.  Treatment for ARD’s in ICU setting is large amounts of pain and sedation med’s and paralytics if needed and 6cc per kilo for tidal volumes on mech vent. An overesponse with a flu would be a cytokine storm, two different things. From what limited reporting on this virus, I haven’t seen cytokine storm.  I doubt there is anything one can do prior to ARD’s to help with inflammation, i.e., ketogentic diet or fasting, etc.  I am interested to see some suggestions for cytokine storm, that might be more realistic and helpful.

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 5:56am

    Reply to #58

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3322

    6+

    people, culture, and governments

    Mots-

    While I respect Chinese people and culture, I am less enthusiastic about the government of China – the CCP.

    Germany, during the Nazi regime, managed to recover quite quickly from the Great Depression, they had lots of research programs into all sorts of interesting fields (medicine, and rocketry, certainly), and yet…nobody remembers them fondly for their research or economic success.

    Given the remarkable achievement of the CCP in turning a concentration camp into a profit center via organ harvesting (a higher-profit version of Arbeit Mach Frei), I think the parallels between the two regimes are unmistakable.

    Chinese people & culture = respect.  The ruling elite?  I’m really not a fan.  I thought the western elites were bad, but it turns out, things could be worse.  I could be living in China under CCP rule.

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 6:15am

    #75

    saxplayer00o1

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3082

    1+

    17,488 of which 2,298 (13%) in critical conditions

    of which 2,298 (13%)
    in critical conditions

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 11:26am

    #76
    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 26

    Ischemic attacks?

    In reviewing case studies, I have noticed elevated cardiac labs in some of the patients from the December (41 patients) studied… people are chatting about ischemic attacks being the source of what appears to be “people dropping” in the streets. I’ve just come across a video on twitter (link below) no idea of validity, however it appears to be time stamped so taking it with a grain of salt. Warning, it appears the person is either having an acute heart attack (Mycocardial infarction- MI) or seizure. Please view knowing it is not pleasant and possibly fatal. I can’t tell. However I’m only sharing due to the need to review this ischemic attack issue companied with the elevated cardiac labs and appearance of sudden death in some people. If that is true, it’s a whole other ballgame of issues as typically MI patients are given 325mg of aspirin if suspected of having acute MI upon initial assessment along with nitrogen, oxygen, morphine and EKG. But with viral Mi im not if sure Aspirin is still frontline option due to Reye’s syndrome. Would love input. As a previous adult and pedi ER nurse, I have never observed a heart attack with these symptoms As this patient. I have observed a stroke with similar symptoms but the patient also had an active gi bleed and confused the “picture.”

    link twitter video, my apologies if this is inappropriate to share here. Just can’t figure out how to email Chris directly here and feel it’s important to learn as much as possible with this virus. https://mobile.twitter.com/hongyihope/status/1224358073252249600

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  • Mon, Feb 03, 2020 - 6:52pm

    Reply to #57
    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 26

    Ards and high dose vit c

    I listened to a fascinating YouTube video today re ARDS/ septic shock and high dose vitamin can. They found mortality dropped with 50mg/kg every 6h dosing. Here is link if anyone wants to check out:

    https://youtu.be/lYGoaW1gKQw

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