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    Coronavirus Infections Outside Of China Are Growing Exponentially

    And that's the official data. If it's underreported, then things are worse...
    by Adam Taggart

    Wednesday, February 19, 2020, 9:30 PM

In yesterday’s video, we warned that the coming two weeks will be crucial in determining how bad the pandemic will be.

The early results are not encouraging. New cases continue to climb in the rest of Asia — Japan, Korea and Singapore are being hit hardest.

And now we have the first two cases (and two deaths!) reported in Iran.

That’s on top of last week’s confirmed case in Africa. So now the virus is on every continent save Antarctica.

Also, new research provides the explanation for why those infected a second time by covid-19 are at much higher risk.

Chris breaks down the science in layman’s terms to explain the nature of the danger, but the key takeaway is: while you for sure don’t want to contract covid-19, you DEFINITELY don’t want to get it a second time…

Be sure to stay up-to-date on Peak Prosperity’s ongoing full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak by visiting here.

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192 Comments

  • Wed, Feb 19, 2020 - 10:22pm

    #1
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

    12+

    ADE, Well Accepted in viral and Vaccine Community

    Interesting how this is seems so evident in the industry.  But on all the media and authority sites , you will never here this information put forward.  This should be specifically addressed when those scammers of misinformation do interviews stating we will have a vaccine in 12- 18 mos.    We have yet to have a vaccine for the cold, SARS, dengue and many other viruses that work by this mechanism.   After years of research.. But we will have one now?

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  • Wed, Feb 19, 2020 - 10:54pm

    #2
    LabCat

    LabCat

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    Placebos

    These thermometers remind me of post 9-11 National Guardsmen guarding the airports with unloaded M-16’s.

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  • Wed, Feb 19, 2020 - 11:30pm

    #3
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    8+

    Chris, Adam: Translate PP YT videos in different languages?

    Hi Chris, Adam and all,

    A YT commenter named”Trip Immigration”on this video urgently requested translations in Japanese:

    “Peak prosperity I have a alarming bell to say you.
    I’m living in japan and I’m working with nurses and the worse problem now is no one gave training for this disease, include in hospital.
    The only say to wash hands and use cirurgic mask… I’m in shock!

    The media didn’t inform about airborne or use goggles. And this is the front line.
    Big part of staff is totally unaware what’s going on. The politicians here only try to hide the really numbers. The TV only say about ship numbers… Nothing about as human to human.
    I’m teaching them but I’m really concerned about this country. Japan will kill himself if we are not inform them in time.

    Please find someone to translate your videos for japanese ASAP. We can save lifes.”

    I don’t know what it would take to do this, but if feasible, it would be of great benefit to millions of people worldwide that would not otherwise have access to this important, life-saving information.

    I know…one more thing to add to your massive, ever expanding “to do” lists.  😉   Thank you!!

    Best,

    Sparky1

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  • Wed, Feb 19, 2020 - 11:48pm

    #4
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

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    Ontario couple testing positive for Covid-2019 after "recovery"

    Ontario couple have recovered but are still testing positive for coronavirus

    https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/02/13/ontario-couple-have-recovered-but-are-still-testing-positive-for-coronavirus.html

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:04am

    #5
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    2+

    Two Elderly Diamond Princess cruise ship passengers die from Covid-2019

    Two Diamond Princess cruise ship passengers die from coronavirus

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/19/coronavirus-deaths-two-diamond-princess-passengers-die/4815851002/

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:01am

    #6
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    4+

    Local TX officials want 225 quarantined evacuees tested at Lackland military base, not hospitals

    City, county officials join efforts to keep coronavirus evacuees at Lackland, away from local hospitals

    https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/02/18/top-bexar-county-official-wants-coronavirus-evacuees-kept-at-lackland-away-from-local-hospitals/

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:28am

    #7
    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Posts: 45

    2+

    Yep, gotta trust OUR gut...

    Chris, I come to you for what I need and the thing is I’m not getting the full picture from you, of course not because you don’t have the honest numbers to do even better. but, I am getting the trusted analysis from you and this keeps my reactions to this Virus focused. What is so amazing is a natural disaster as huge as Australia’s mass extinction event gets no more ink, that ended when this Virus hit the airwaves. We ARE a strange species. The Virus will end are my thoughts. The longer we keep it on the other side of our borders the better for us when this Virus succumbs to the weather and dies out. I see April as the month we get some signs for this die out. I do not believe the Virus will be a footnote though, I see it rearing its head again, perhaps late this Fall. I have no clue though as I have zero knowledge of the science involved or how this Virus changes over time and I don’t see anything to say anyone else understands either. I understand why the powers that be want’s to control the message and it’s because there is an end and I believe they are right and soon. Why set off panic. It’s a Virus that kills people and at a greater percentage than the flu but we will all become desensitized, not remember anyone who has died as we start commenting on how Gold has risen again and we become the human silly people we have always been. Thank you Chris for helping me understand and to remember that THIS TOO SHALL PASS. I mean, not everyone is going to die and the world will get moving again. So far, nothing has broken to badly, it seems it hardly ever does. The worst crisis in our lifetime, the Financial crisis has been fought through and we now head for all time highs! Go figure but, if you’re going to play the game and it has been very profitable then perspective must be maintained. Good luck to all.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:51am

    #8
    Matties

    Matties

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    RE : testing positive for Covid-2019 after "recovery" Look at SARS

    Autopsy findings for patients with SARS who died within 2
    weeks after the onset of illness showed that the presence of
    SARS-CoV was widespread in a number of tissues and organs
    [14, 15], and that, in some surviving patients, the virus remained
    for prolonged periods (up to 80 days)

    SARS Nasopharyngeal Shedding

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 2:01am

    Reply to #1
    Mary Critchley

    Mary Critchley

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    Joined: Jun 22 2014

    Posts: 9

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    cytokine storm following 2nd encounter with Covid-19

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qnCKxiQjOk

    Many of us are, no doubt, watching Clif High, an extraordinary (and I think, genius) polymath who, like Chris, has been well ahead of the curve on Covid-19.  On Feb 5th here  (start the video just after the 17 minute mark) he talks about the cytokine storm and how he feels one may be able to protect oneself from what Chris spoke about today: the way antibodies themselves can facilitate virus entry into host cells if people are infected by the virus a second time, whereupon this “mild” disease can turn fatal.  Many of Clif’s more recent videos are well worth watching, especially the interview he did yesterday with a Hong Kong medico.  Among other things, I have stocked up now on vitB6 and Chaga.  Good luck to us all – and huge thanks to Chris and Peak Prosperity.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 4:57am

    #9
    kbeckett

    kbeckett

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    Report in the Guardian about hits to industry.

    Don’t know if you’ve seen this yet – but there are a number of articles about the potential hits to industry in the Guardian today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/20/coronavirus-hit-airline-shipping-industry-china-flights

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 5:00am

    #10

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2161

    10+

    Quarantine and Our Relationship with "Legitimate Authorities"

    The nanny statesheeple relationship has 4 specific aspects:

    1.  The expectation of the sheeple that the “rightful and legitimate authorities” will care for them.  Power and responsibilities are localized in the hands of “the authorities.”  Sheeple demand and expect that authorities protect them from everything–food supply, violence, information, flood waters, viruses.  Everything.

    2.  Anger / outrage can be directed at those “authorities” when sheeple experience something bad.

    3.  The authorities (the locus of power and responsibility) direct the sheeple who obey.  Police power of the authorities over the sheeple is legitimate and expected.

    4.  Sheeple demand that the other sheeple obey said “authorities” by social pressures and by reporting neighbors to “authorities” for police enforcement action.

    If we do not give responsibility to “the authorities” then we cannot blame them.  If we blame them, then we are giving them the power and responsibility.

    Two sides of the same coin.

    I expect that police enforcement of quarantine and supply provisioning under quarantine will test this relationship sorely.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 5:21am

    Reply to #10
    MarkM

    MarkM

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    annnnddd.....They're off!!!

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-deaths-outside-china-surge-overnight-explosion-new-cases-suggests-outbreak

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 5:36am

    #11
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

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    Molecular Mechanism for Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Coronavirus Entry

    Hmmmm……

    So the second report in the video update was conducted with bunch of researchers from wuhan institute of virology and was published in early December 2019 which means they were doing testing with the ADE with Sars/mers viruses and spike proteins sometime in the months preceding……..I’m no scientist but would the timing on there testing  be almost exact with a potential Coronavirus initial release (up to a few mos before Dec.?)  Maybe their testing posed no risk to virus realease but I am not trained enough to determine this.

     

    research paper:

    https://jvi.asm.org/content/94/5/e02015-19

    Molecular Mechanism for Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Coronavirus Entry
    Yushun Wan,a Jian Shang,a Shihui Sun,b Wanbo Tai,c Jing Chen,d Qibin Geng,a Lei He,b Yuehong Chen,b Jianming Wu,a Zhengli Shi,d Yusen Zhou,b Lanying Du,c Fang Lia
    aDepartment of Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA bLaboratory of Infection and Immunity, Beijing Institute of Microbiology and Epidemiology, Beijing, China
    cLindsley F. Kimball Research Institute, New York Blood Center, New York, New York, USA
    dWuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, Hubei Province, China

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:09am

    #12
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    3+

    A little Opioid update

    Since the other info fell to the wayside 2 articles ago; i’ll remind people here of what i found with some updated info:

    The US uses 99% of the worlds supply of Hydrocodone. I think it’s the main opioid in use, though there are more, but this one stands out by the US using up 99% of it’s supply (ergo, any disruption in supply, the US has a problem).

    I’ve been trying to track down where it’s made, but i can’t find anything about which manufacturer of which brand produces it where and in what quantities. Not to mention i don’t live in the US so chasing after stuff isn’t an option. Best i can do is what i find online and this is the only manufacturers i’ve seen listed anywhere at all:

    https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/5284569#section=Chemical-Vendors
    There are only 3 manufacturers of the stuff: One in Germany, one in San Francisco, and one in Wuhan.

    Maybe this is for retail customers only but it stands to reason if they offer it in small amounts they offer it in big amounts. I just don’t know how much comes from where. But i’m more then willing to bet a significant chunk is made in China and thus; supply disruptions will happen.

    But to deepen the problem i decided to do the same with Methadone:

    https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4095#section=Chemical-Vendors
    Of the 13 on the list, there’s 7 located in China. Not only that, but the US will have to compete with the rest of the world for the methadone supply as the usage of it in other countries is significant; equal to that of the US in some cases. So the German manufacturer of methadone will not export to the US once Germans can’t get any more.

    Luckily; the alternative Buprenorphine is made almost exclusively in the US. However versions of it where only approved for use in opioid withdrawal in october of last year; so i wouldn’t count on this thing being available in mass quantities yet – of people having heard of it for that matter (i didn’t until i started looking into the problem of Opioid supply shortages).
    https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/644073#section=Chemical-Vendors

    Of course this isn’t the only medicine in short supply pretty soon. There are others more life threatening pharmaceuticals that’ll disappear soon, so you should be prepared. Regardless i consider it the most dangerous threat. Not because of lethality but because to contain this virus at all you need people to stay in doors and avoid contact. If there’s one type of person that will do *anything* for their next fix, it’s a opium addict. And that’s a trope from the best of times.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:13am

    #13
    ao

    ao

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    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    12+

    there is no subject other than corona virus

    At least that’s the impression I’m getting from reading this site.  All other concerns have fallen off the charts.  The diversity of news and information that was previously available on this site now seems absent.  I think I’ve reached peak corona virus information saturation.  All this breathlessness is a bit suffocating.  Time to take a break.  What will be will be.

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:25am

    #14
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    Joined: Jan 27 2020

    Posts: 50

    2+

    BOMBSHELL on ASIAN Susceptibility - Peer-Reviewed Study

     

    Wow – this study certainly sets the cat among the pigeons. We all know that Covid-19 uses the same method of infection as SARS. This paper proves that these type viruses definitely target CERTAIN ASIAN POPULATIONS much harder. I have not seen such a detailed, peer-reviewed study on this before.

    What does it mean? The virus should NOT be as serious outside Asia. Here is the peer-reviewed paper on it-

    https://www.intechopen.com/books/hla-and-associated-important-diseases/association-between-hla-gene-polymorphism-and-the-genetic-susceptibility-of-sars-infection

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:51am

    Reply to #13
    BillL

    BillL

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    2+

    Thanks for that ao.

    “never let a good crisis go to waste.”

    Even Jim Quinn @ Burning Platform is a bit jealous of the youtube hits here.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 7:20am

    #15

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    15+

    Thats Correct - Other “News” Doesn’t Matter as Much

    I for one am thrilled to not be reading about the latest political theatre, bitcoin, the stock market or what the Fed said today.

    However, this Pandemic is a historical event that will affect each and every one of us.  This site is THE one place I can come for up-to-date and reliable information.  Members contributions have been invaluable. Wicked smart people to be sure.

    Continuously providing current information is, no doubt a full time job.  So instead of criticizing simply go else-where and then come back when you want the latest info.

    This site is doing an amazing job and complaining isn’t necessary or appreciated. The “other” news is like an 8-track – – it just repeats over and over.

    Protective Granny!

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 7:55am

    #16

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 563

    1+

    ACE2 and Nutrition

    Chris,

    My degrees are in accounting, not science, so I’m out of my field.

    I found this article about a study done on mice.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2536864/

    It looks to me like a high fat diet for four weeks resulted in a threefold increase in ACE2 (liver, not lungs).

    I’m curious what you make of it.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:01am

    #17
    Green Acres

    Green Acres

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    Joined: Dec 04 2010

    Posts: 8

    9+

    It's okay to me that PP focuses on the virus

    One lesson I learned from 2008 is that the powers that be will do everything possible to stop a paper-based financial system from going into deflation and depression.   They will be very creative, and all that is possible due to the nature of our system.   That was contrary to my expectation, and well… lesson learned.  Plan B or a PM economy was early.  This time however, there is nothing the Fed or any other financial authority can do about COVID-19.  So I am happy that PP makes videos with updates based on science and latest data.  Now it’s up to the scientists to help us out here even with ADE as a possible complication.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:08am

    #18

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 633

    2+

    South Korean religious group is new hotbed for disease

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51572137

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:09am

    Reply to #13

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 178

    8+

    reply to ao

    To me no other news comes close to this. I was completely checked out of following any news for 2 years or so. Markets were happy, people working. The scare of 08 buried away under trillions of electronic 1s and 0s. It seemed like the next crisis was years away. I stopped thinking about debt and interest rate swaps and all that. Bought a 96 4runner and turned it into an off-road savage with front and rear locking differentials. In the back of my mind I knew I was building a SHTF escape vehicle. Have you seen what a duel locked 4X4 can crawl through? I was laughing to myself at the Chinese makeshift road blocks knowing my rig could easily crawl through them haha.

    This coronavirus really got my attention and really got me moving, especially after I heard about the unprecedented modern day quarantines. With so much chinese production offline God only knows what the hell is going to happen. India announced they are banning the export of antibiotics due to supply concerns! This is just the beginning I fear.

    The world may not be the same after this event plays out. “Made in China” was a huge mistake. We have the keys to the kingdom away to a authoritarian communist regime. Corps made the cash and consumers went along for the savings. IF the supply disruptions  become severe are we going back to the way it was? Or will China lose its place as bulk manufacturer.

    This could easily be the biggest event of our lives

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:24am

    #19
    Matties

    Matties

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

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    Re : BOMBSHELL

    Good find !

    SARS HLA Now a hard copy PDF is on the peakprosperity server.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:48am

    #20
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Oldest (?) Trick in the book

    Make those you want to conquer dependent on you, then pull the plug.  Gaslighting, indeed.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:49am

    #21
    davez

    davez

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 8

    3+

    Google Sheet Sample

    Here’s a Google Sheet where you can graph data from all areas to look for trends. If you copy it, you’ll need to replace the data daily with John Hopkin’s data, which is available. The update data link is included in the sheet.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FXVgNrTbECcO8X4-hFXhJuqgE5sl-7ddU-IO2ciXCdU/edit#gid=275720644

    I find it odd that they still only display 15 for US cases.

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:06am

    #22

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    12+

    They wouldn’t lie to us in the United States, would they…?

    How many people are troubled, versus comforted, by the apparent stasis in corona virus cases in the US?

    It has now been a week since the CDC confirmed the 15th case in the US…. Since then, deafening silence. No new cases, great right?

    What troubles me is the lack of any recovery or worsening of the acknowledged 15 cases. What’s up with North America. The US has 15 cases but only 3 (20%) have recovered. Canada has 8 cases with 2 (25%) recoveries. So what’s wrong with that?

    Australia also has 15 cases but 14 (93%) have recovered. The U.K. has 9 cases with 8 (89%) recovered. German and France are lagging with only 57% recovered combined. Go down the list and anywhere that is not being overrun by rapid addition of new cases (Japan, Korea) seems to have >50% recoveries, as high as 87% for Vietnam!

    So what’s the deal with the US? Nobody gets better, but nobody even comes up as being in critical condition? If they aren’t in critical conditions why aren’t they recovering? Supposedly 80% should have resolved with mild to moderate side effects by now. Strange…….

    No news is not good news. Are they even testing anyone in the US? Supposedly they are screening cases in 5 cities, but the reagents weren’t of high enough quality so they are whipping up more, to be ready…..when?

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:26am

    Reply to #22
    Awka72

    Awka72

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    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 10

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    No Recovered Making The Talk Show Rounds Either

    I’ve found it curious we have yet to see anyone trotted out in the media as having recovered. We have a few active from Diamond Princess, and various quarantines, but aside from a statement from a spokesperson here & there, I really can’t find anything from those who beat this thing, at least not in the Wes t.

    I understand why people might choose to remain private, but find it odd in a time when overstating is so common that we don’t have at least one or two coming forward to tell their story…..

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:43am

    #23
    Desogames

    Desogames

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    14+

    No other news matters now

    Until governments stop underestimating this thing, there is no other news of importance.

    Bitcoin? in it’s own little speculative universe. I’ve been tracking cryptos along everything else and they show absolutely no correlation to world events. One moment it behaves like a safe haven, the next it behaves like a risk asset. If you wanna predict what those are going to do you need a crypto specific website.

    Economy? Completely dominated by supply chain disruptions coming out of china now and will continue as such for the coming year. Same dynamics as a traffic jam: Even if the virus clears now, it’s essentially had the same effect as a driver on the highway slamming his breaks out of nowhere, then accelerating back up again, creating “ghost traffic” as we call it here in the Netherlands. Only question now is if it’s a driver slamming his breaks or slamming into the wall.

    Articles on how to prepare for the next months? That’s what these videos are. Knowledge is power, and what we know about this virus is still very much in development. As to why there is so much about it; it keeps getting *worse*. That’s no joke either the more we learn, every time we learn, it gets worse. The only ‘uptick’ we’ve had so far was the report that the virus doesn’t seem to either infect or affect children much if at all.

    Trade advice? Simple: DON’T. The market is far above exuberance on the simple premise of “If there is a crash, that’s good, because the fed will print more money”. Completely ignoring that you cannot print away a virus. This seems logic and reasonable to us, but the markets are not behaving reasonable and that’s why you should stay out.

    The rest is simple: Have some physical gold/silver in your portfolio (that you have full legal ownership of and preferably is even physically located in a vault near your residence), some cash as well (and yes those hedge each other, in a crisis you’re not trying to make money, that’s how you lose money, you’re trying to lose less then everybody else and gain *relative* wealth), invest the rest in what you think will do well when the world’s going to go into recession, because it is. Japan and Germany where already going into recession before the virus, the last few drops in global growth where fueled by China massively expanding their debt to $40 trillion and again – because of the virus, no amount of printing is going to coax people from their homes to work. Especially not after the government has lied so much about it, nobody will believe the all clear.

    What else…. US presidential elections? Doesn’t matter. If the stock market crashes before november we get bernie, if it doesn’t we get trump. Neither has indicated any way to pay for their future plans other then massively run up the US national debt. Foreigners (mainly china and japan) have stopped buying that years ago.

    As a result the US went bankrupt on 16 september 2019 in what we now know as “the Repocalypse” where the repo market; aka the shortest term lending facility, broke. Ever since then, the Fed has openly and directly monitized the US national debt, regardless of how hard they scream it’s not QE4. Not that it matters now, cause the virus will bring QE5.

    And yes – when your central bank has to buy your national debt because nobody else wants to, that’s called bankruptcy. You could say the central bank shouldn’t intervene and let the market set the rates; which is fine. Then the market will set the rates where the US will be fully bankrupt in a month. Because that’s the real situation.

    And if you think that’s a load of malarkey, just ask yourself what would happen if the Fed stops printing money to the tune of $60 billion a month ontop of their $78 billion overnight and daily Repo operations that they’re supposed to be tapering into april this year (don’t make me laugh). Their balance sheet went up $400 billion in 5 months and the repo’s are still oversubscribed twice their size. Another repo crisis is imminent, we just don’t exactly know when it’ll crack.

    Of course when the US dollar stops being the reserve currency of the world prices for everything in the US will triple. When the world no longer has use for dollars you’ll have to live within your means. A process which was inevitable once it was taken off the gold standard; though it started long before that.

    What else do you wanna know about? The massive swarms of locusts in africa that already are the size of cities and will get 500 times worse within 6 months? Those are the UN’s official estimates, not my alarmism, in fact i have a hard time believing them myself, though i can’t deny the evidence that it’ll be some amount worse then it already is at the very least.

    Unusual weather patterns and such? All of that’s nonsense, global warming isn’t happening. Climate change is, of course, the climate has always changed. But as far as temperature increases go: Those numbers are based on the IPCC numbers, which again are based on the US weather service’s weather stations all over the planet. In the 80s, they decreased the number of those, and in the 90s they decreased it again. To the point where there were 87 measuring stations in my home country of the netherlands, measuring an area of 41,873 km2 while there remained 0 in Bolivia, with an area of 1,098,581 km2 and instead, “estimating” the temperature in Boliva from stations in surrounding countries.

    Not only that, but sattelite data showed that there was no warming from 1998 to 2007. Warming resumed, at an accelerated pace, in 2008. Well turns out somebody looked into it, and it turns out some weather stations are still very much operational but are no longer taken with in the data. In other words: The IPCC simply changed the definition of “temperature gage”.

    Weather Stations Disappearing Worldwide

    Oh look, an article from 2008, who would’ve thunk it!

    All the “strange and extreme” weather you’ve been hearing is just over reporting by the same media who are so very accurately reporting every detail of this virus. Once you start looking for stuff you can find it.

    Australian bush fires? Caused by 200 people arrested for arson as well as a stupid decision by the climate activists to NOT burn underbrush in the off-season where it’s manageable, essentially creating a giant tinderbox of a country. Allowing eucalyptus trees, which are all over the bloody country and filled with FLAMMABLE OIL THAT MAKES THEM EXPLODE, to expand fires greatly. Know where you can also find those trees? Northern California, after they bought them from Australia 100 years ago (and it turns out, these trees take 100 years to mature. GO FIGURE).

    Jesus christ what else. Banks? going to fail. Deutsche bank has been bankrupt for quite a while now because they have $360 billion in bad assets and only $140 billion orso in tier 1 capital. That’s been that way since december (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5He-opu-nFk but it’s in dutch, still yknow, source. You can try following the closed captions but be warned it’s google auto translate so half of it makes no sense) and that is why i converted my life savings into physical gold and silver last december.

    Well, i saw the same problems coalescing so i bought physical precious metals Before i saw the above video (i bought it on the same day as it came out and i didn’t see the video till 2 weeks later, i did buy an additional bunch of silver because of it though) and 4 days before Zoltan Poszar (the man who built the repo market) declared imminent doom which caused jay power the next day to announce HALF A TRILLION in repo operations.

    So far i’ve earned more on that then all the interest ING gave me over the last 6 years on about $11,5k cash in a savings account. My last interest given was 0,01%. And honestly, there is no reason why it wouldn’t go up further.

    Aside from a deflationary crash, which we will have. But i also reckon once we hit the bottom and the Fed’s still got the printing press running on all cylinders, because he has to, because the US is broke, literally everybody and their mother will want to buy actual physical gold and the price will skyrocket. So i’m taking the loss on the way down just to be in the market on the way up.

    If you can still buy gold at that time, because germany has restricted anonymous cash purchases of gold this year on january 10th, down from €10k to €2000. At current prices that means germans can’t even anonymously buy 1 gold oz coin (https://news.bitcoin.com/germans-rush-to-buy-gold-as-draft-bill-threatens-to-restrict-purchases/)

    And no i’m not thinking the government wants to track you so they can confiscate your gold. I’m thinking they want to ban cash and move those purchases to the digital realm so they can prevent more people from buying gold with the flick of a switch! It’s called Capital Controls, it already happened to Cyprus in 2012.

    Once you cannot buy anything with your money in the bank, the policy makers have all the time in the world to decide how much of your money they will take to keep the bank alive.

    They’re not coming for your gold. They’re coming for your money. Because you know what appreciates the most in a deflationary crisis? Cash. On top of that the crash will be because of a liquidity crisis, meaning nobody either has cash or wants to lend out the cash they have, placing an additional premium on cash.

    I think that’s it. All the current calamities more or less summarized. That’s not to speak of the havoc wind and solar power are causing on the power grids, being optimized for stable current and not intermittent current, the escalating situation in Syria where turkey and syria are likely to go to war (which, considering russia is on the side of syria which might be dragged into the fight, with nato on the turkish side being dragged into the fight, is looking like another stage for WWIII) and if it doesn’t happen in syria it happens in libya, the EU pushing very hard for a banking union to share banking debt because of the above story, Brexit of course barely having started yet and the UK will crash out without a deal on jan 1st….

    There is plenty of news. None of it good. And most of it will be severely sped up….. by the corona virus. It has already been the catalyst of many things; now history just needs to catch up.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:44am

    Reply to #15
    ao

    ao

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    Posts: 1243

    5+

    thank you AKGranny

    What you term as “complaining”, I term as “feedback”.  While you and some others may want to read 100% corona virus information, myself and some others appreciate and value this information but would also like to read at least some other information.  Other things ARE happening in the world.  While you say the other news “repeats over and over” (which it often most assuredly does), the signal-to-noise ratio here has been steadily climbing and if you read through this thread, you’ll see a tremendous amount of news here also “repeats over and over”.  Your assumption seems to be that your viewpoint is the only valid one.  Mine is that we all have different viewpoints and it is that diversity in our perspective that adds to the strength and value of this site, not a monolithic, obsessive focus.  That being said, they are many speculative and non-factual comments being made here by many who do not appear to have scientific or medical backgrounds nor direct personal experience with the corona virus experience that are drowning out the information provided by those that do.  So perhaps in your newly assumed role as protector of the PP corona virus thread, you may want to curate the information and provide a truly valuable service.  That would be a better use of your time and energy than attacking me.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:49am

    #24
    Matties

    Matties

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    2+

    Black tea suppress your fighting against virus

    I encountered this on twitter.

    Was going to share w/ you the research and could be the reason Asians are highly susptibe. Please do not be offended, but … Theaflavons (side effect) suppress CD4 immune cells

    Theaflavons are in black tea, I used to drink it,but now I’ll stop. HIV drugs stimulate CD4. You need CD4 to be elevated to early stop the virus. pubmed

    Tea pigments inhibit Th1 and Th2

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:55am

    #25

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    12+

    Second round with dengue

    What Chris pointed out about dengue (den-gay) is correct. I survived a bout of it back in 1997 in the Brazilian Amazon. Even then they were saying that getting infected with a second strain of dengue had a high risk of turning into a dengue hemorrhagic fever (DHF).

    It’s a risk I’ve run for over 20 years as I’ve tromped through the jungles (and more hazardously – cities) of South America, Asia, Africa and Australia. So far so good….but it is always in the back of my mind. Time will tell how bad the first go around with COVID-19 is for all of us, never mind a second infection, when/if the second serotype develops.

    In Brazil there are at least 3 serotypes of dengue endemic at this point. In some urban areas seroepidemiologic studies show ~70% of the people have been infected with dengue at least once. So lot’s of secondary infections have and will continue to occur. They don’t all turn into DHF. During the outbreak of 2002 in Rio de Janeiro state, of those shown to have dengue, roughly 1 in 300 progressed to becoming DHF. That’s bad but it still isn’t a death sentence. The mortality rate for DHF was ~5%. (link) So for those with dengue ~0.3% progressed to DHF and then they had a 5% chance of death. That works out to 1-2 deaths per 10,000 infections.

    I don’t mean to downplay the severity of dengue and DHF. Trust me, you never want to experience ‘break-bone’ fever. I sweated it out for a week. In 2002 there were more DHF deaths than from malaria in Brazil. It is a serious health problem.

    The point though is that getting it (and presumably Covid-19) twice is not an instant death sentence.  Your risks of dying certainly increase if you get something like this twice but try to maintain perspective on the issue in your preparations. Hopefully we can avoid getting it the first time.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:02am

    Reply to #13
    ao

    ao

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    Posts: 1243

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    George, the Toyota 4 Runner is a good platform

    Depending upon the year, it’s identical to or at least similar to the Hilux which has proven its reliability all around the world.  There is one difficulty when encountering road blocks.  Bullets … since they are not infrequently manned by armed individuals.  I hope you have that thing armored.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:04am

    Reply to #1
    ao

    ao

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    Mary, be careful with the vitamin B6

    With the dosages of synthetic vitamin B6 presently being sold, it is quite easy to overdose on it.  The result … possible irreversible nerve damage, usually manifested as numbness in the lower extremities.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:21am

    #26
    ao

    ao

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    Desogames, i don't disagree with most of what you say

    But other things DO matter and your post has a tone that suggests you are heavily up-regulated about your perception of world events, a condition which can definitely lower your immune system function and just isn’t healthy for you physically or psychologically.  You did, however, commit the unpardonable sin of denying climate change.  That probably won’t go over big here.  Just a word of advice from someone who’s been where you seem to be now (and from the experience of a good friend of mine who was there before me and also now realizes the folly of his thinking).  First, do everything REASONABLE you can do to prepare but remain flexible enough to take advantage of the situation no matter what it is.  For example, many people here who sold off their stocks and closed their retirement accounts at the time of the financial crisis have come to regret those actions.  Second (and more important), NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, you will not be able to stop what is inevitable nor do you truly have any control over the situation.  The control you think you have is just an illusion, a reassuring one to be sure (since I partake in it myself to some extent) but an illusion, nonetheless.  As someone once said, “The only way to be happy is to tell yourself some lies or to deceive yourself.”  When you understand that your existence on this planet is all about spiritual learning and growth, not about the economy, politics, prepping, the corona virus, or whatever, you’ll begin to find some peace and reassurance, regardless of the situation.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:32am

    #27

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    11+

    When my children, now my grand-children provide me with “negative feedback” like …. saying “I am board” they get to dust and clean the heat registers and then start on washing the windows. Or, (which never happens) say they provide “negative feedback” they don’t like what is being served for dinner rather than being grateful, therefore get to help out by being in-charge of doing the dishes and cleaning up.

    Yep, being a Granny I’ve seen feedback, complaining, criticizing and bs and lots-a bullshit.   So, understand this.   I agree with PP contributor George Karpouzis when he said “This could be the biggest event of our lives.”  And I believe the PP team are working hard, very hard, and am not going to quietly let anyone unfairly criticize them.  That’s MY feedback dude.🥰

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:39am

    #28

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 633

    7+

    Fox Business attributes todays market decline to Coronavirus

    Radio broadcast sites virus as market mover. Gold a beneficiary. This is a significant change in media coverage. They specifically mentioned the spread to other countries. I am doing like Chris…..upping my preps another notch.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:46am

    #29

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1433

    8+

    Sign the US govt is prepping

    Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has issued a new “Healthcare Common Procedure Coding System (HCPCS)” code for providers+labs to test patients for SARSCoV2– allows labs doing tests to bill for the specific test

    https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/public-health-news-alert-cms-develops-new-code-coronavirus-lab-test

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:56am

    Reply to #27
    ao

    ao

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    correction

    Saying “I’m board (sic)” is not negative feedback.  It’s a child that either isn’t being stimulated or is not in a stimulating environment or hasn’t been taught or hasn’t learned to be a self starter.

    And I’m not even sure what this sentence means.

    “Or, (which never happens) say they provide “negative feedback” they don’t like what is being served for dinner rather than being grateful, therefore get to help out by being in-charge of doing the dishes and cleaning up.”

    Thank you for your comments, dudette.  You’re proving my point.  Are you familiar with the concept of constructive criticism?

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:19am

    #30

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    3+

    Enough

    In my post #15 I stated the following –

    “This site is doing an amazing job and complaining isn’t necessary or appreciated.“

    No where did I use anyone’s name or reply to a specific post. Nor do I use you, you, you.

    I am feeling a little attacked here!

    “So perhaps in your newly assumed role as protector of the PP corona virus thread, you may want to curate the information and provide a truly valuable service.  That would be a better use of your time and energy than attacking me.”

    Yes I am familiar with constructive criticism and when I don’t understand someones post I don’t endeavor to completely tear it apart.

    Okay, go ahead have the last word then lets move on.

    OMG

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:19am

    #31
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Joined: Jun 07 2007

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    25+

    The biggest event of our lives

    Are you familiar with the concept of constructive criticism?

    ao – are you familiar with the concept of self-responsibility?   If you want to discuss other matters then go ahead.  It’s not up to me, or anybody, to entertain you.

    The reason I am so focused on this, and will remain so, is because I am a systems guy.  I think systematically.  I understand how complex systems behave when perturbed (unpredictably).

    The supply chain disruptions slamming into a wall of corporate, household and government debt will create all manner of disruptions we’ve not yet contemplated or imagined.

    The way I keep ahead of those developments is to scour the news, connect dots, and keep track of the coronavirus.  Is it waning or expanding?  What are the options for containing it?  Given those options, what happens next?

    The impact those options will have on people’s lives, jobs and future prospects are larger than anything else in my lifetime, by a wide margin.

    If anybody finds that boring, I would suggest they are either at an advanced age of life or depressed.

    To me this is the most gripping, fast-paced story of our lives.  Again, if you have other things you’d like to discuss, I bet others would too.  Start a forum.  Be in charge of your own interests.  That’s our way around here.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:20am

    #32

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 171

    7+

    fairness....

    It has never failed to irk me when, over the years at PP, someone has attempted to be the arbiter of what is “fair” here on the site.  Chris and Adam have proven to be able to speak for themselves regarding all aspects of this marvelous enterprise, and, thankfully, appear to have a thicker skin than some others in attendance here.  Please let them speak for the site and themselves.  Attacking each other is non-productive and distracting.  Aloha, Steve

    ps- I do agree with ao and dtrammel that the signal-to-noise ratio is diminishing somewhat lately, and I sorely wish that our cherished new members would take the time to read previous posts before posting (I know, that’s asking a lot,but it’s a waste to have to sift through stuff today, that was posted by someone else yesterday!)  S

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:38am

    Reply to #22
    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

    3+

    Definition of "recovered" determines who can be counted; similar with definition of "case"

    Some people who have no symptoms continue to shed virus (such as the couple in Toronto). By the Chinese definition of recovery, they would not be recovered. This might be why so few people are recovered worldwide. And if different countries use different definitions, then their percentages may be different. Just guessing though.

    A lot of the craziness around the numbers relate to issues of testing, defining, searching, and the like (lying too I suppose). As opposed to what the virus is really doing, which we can only “see” through our tools and definitions.

    And yes, I am suspecting that the reason our number is still 15 is because we don’t trust our test and they are fighting at some level of the CDC about what to trust. Maybe that is also why we haven’t added the 14 that came from the Diamond Princess (since they are on US soil, shouldn’t that add them to the US numbers?). They were supposed to test suitable sick patients in San Francisco and 4 other cities’ hospitals and we haven’t heard one way or the other on that effort, it’s been 1 week since they announced it. I’m guessing they didn’t run any tests because even if they had sent them to the CDC with the 3-day turnaround time we would have something potentially.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:53am

    Reply to #15
    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    the virus is the news

    Hey AO I get it. I can see you got some likes, so at least a few other people feel the same way. Let me just say one thing in Chris’s defense though. (or Chris and Adam, I’m new here). If Chris weren’t obsessed with the virus, his reports on it wouldn’t be as good as they are. Same with a few of the commenters. Not to mention, it’s his website, he can talk about whatever he wants. I for one, would like to hear some interviews between Chris and some viral experts on the front lines right now rather than rehashing some of the current headlines. But it isn’t my website!

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:03pm

    Reply to #15
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    2+

    Crazy medical advice..

    Thanks ao, I was just thinking the same thing as you mentioned about medical advice. It’s all over the place and I suspect most is nonsense. LikeKeto diets and Elderberries as the solution to everything that ails us.

    I just watched a video from some guy named Clif High who says all you need to offset a Cytokine storm is vitamin B6.

    Well thank you Clif High.

    What a great solution. We can all afford it too. Knowing that I won’t even bother with hand washing anymore since all I need to do is reach for my bottle of B6 that is conveniently in a liquid form and I can now defend myself against the Wuhan Virus.

    Who knew. (Sarc)

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:07pm

    Reply to #26
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

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    Thanks for your concerns

    But my mental health has never been better. True; i am laser focussed. A function of my severe autism. But when i stopped pretending to be normal, and stopped repressing my thoughts and feelings for what others call, “the tone of my post”, i became a lot healthier mentally. Considering i have a communication disorder, you have completely misread the tone of my post. I can guarrantee you this.

    On that note, i *don’t give a flying fuck* what others think about climate change. Whether it’s real or not. I *know* it’s not real because i’ve spent 25 years heavily studying human behavior to you know, survive, and that same training is telling me the political interests are so heavily invested in this that it cannot possibly be real.

    Because the data says it isn’t there, the data that does say it’s there is demonstrably corrupt, and all the people who continually parrot it’s true have vested interests in continuing the lie. Al Gore made BANK off his movie. Sure – i’m not against investing what you believe in, i have gold and silver after all. But i didn’t switch to gold and silver to speculate, it was to protect my assets from the very same people who have now introduced Green Bonds. Money printing is the cause of all financial bubbles at the moment but if it’s for the environment suddenly it isn’t an issue? Give me a fucking break.

    And honestly if the blow back of what i say is so hard i’ll just move to another community! Because really, i’ve already learned to start nothing i’m not willing to abandon at a moments notice. I’m always willing to discuss data. I’m done discussing emotions.

    I find because people always try to “read my tone” or “assure me you can’t control everything and that’s fine”, they subsequently ignoring literally *everything* i said and assuming i’m some fucking halfwit who’s completely losing his mind over problems in the world.

    You remind me of my father. Who laughed in my face when i told him i bought a fully protective overall and full face mask, saying “have fun with your teletubbie suit”. So yeah, thank you for protecting my mental health yet again by completely trivializing everything i said with the single line “i agree with most of what you said, but…” and then focussing on *my* mental health like i’ve never seen anybody do that before. Go fuck yourself.

    Oh. Just to be sure. I literally do mean, go fuck yourself. The tone of my message is very mad because you’re no different from the people who’ve destroyed my mental health, providing me with enough trauma to waste 25 years of my life. I don’t care if you have the best intentions. The road to hell is paved with the best intentions. And i’ve been up and down that road many times.

    I have backed down enough. Never again. I’ll continue to post where ever i end up about the injustice of the day. No matter how much people don’t want to hear it.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:13pm

    Reply to #30
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    7+

    wait a minute, AK Granny

    I claimed victimhood first.  You can’t trump my victimhood with your victimhood.  That’s not permitted under the declaration of victimhood rules.  Please review those rules before any future frivolous engagements.  Thank you and have a pleasant day and an even better tomorrow.

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:14pm

    #33

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    12+

    We won't see it coming...

    Japan’s Health Minister Katsunobu Kato told Parliament the two people from the Diamond Princess cruise ship who died had “received the best medical treatment” but couldn’t be saved after catching the novel coronavirus on board. As of Thursday, 634 passengers and crew members were diagnosed with the virus out of 3,063 tested. Slightly more than half have no symptoms at all, officials said, and many of the remainder have only mild fever or a cough. Among patients who tested positive for the virus, 28 were reported in serious condition Thursday. (link)

    The part I bolded is a major point of concern. The Japanese have been roasted for the fiasco on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, and likely with some justification but there is a lot of desire to just treat these cases as anomalous and outside of consideration for understanding what is happening around us in the rest of the world.

    Maybe the ship was an incubator for the virus and the situation was poorly handled. However, the recent outbreak in Korea shows just how rapidly a ‘super-spreader’ can infect a large group of people who weren’t confined together for long periods. Perhaps this is a large part of the reason for the extensive spread on this cruise ship? Certainly not helped if there were poor quarantine protocols put in place afterward. We know when people became symptomatic but not when they were infected.

    Regardless it is very concerning that over half of the cases are completely asymptomatic, even at this stage! The only reason this is known at all is because they had a confined population of people who were potentially exposed to the virus AND they then tested all of them.

    Who else anywhere is broadly testing asymptomatic populations? How many infected people have been waived through checkpoints on travels around the world over the last several weeks? Get ready for a lot of unforeseen outbreaks in places throughout the world.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:24pm

    Reply to #15
    ao

    ao

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    Mr. Curious

    Did you see anyplace where I attacked Chris?  On the contrary, I applaud what he has been doing and his efforts.  I simply noted that the website was becoming somewhat out of balance, a fact which may not work in its favor over the longer term of spreading his original message.  This was simply an observation, no more, no less.  While the name of the website was changed from The Crash Course to Peak Prosperity in the past, I’m not aware of him having any intention of changing it to Peak Corona Virus.  To you and others, please don’t make more of this than what was written.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:25pm

    #34
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    7+

    I have no problem with ao's comments.

    I read all the thread. Ao was not out of line. Just expressing his own point of view and it was pretty reasonably written. I did not see any criticism of Chris (who has been doing an outstanding job in my view). The beauty of our culture is expression without censorship. That made some of the responses to ao pretty entertaining!

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:28pm

    Reply to #26
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    1+

    uh,

    OK <walking away quickly>

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:50pm

    Reply to #31
    ao

    ao

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    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    3+

    Chris

    Your post reads like you’re overreacting a bit (and perhaps more than a bit) to what I wrote.  The constructive criticism comment was directed to AK Granny, not you.  I simply made an observation about what I was witnessing on the site, actually for YOUR benefit.  Sometimes it helps to have an external perspective, especially when one is wrapped up in the excitement and emotion of an event such as this.  I’ll know now to keep my comments to myself.  Responding with snark about the self responsibility issue is not like you.  I happen to be the poster child for self-responsibility.  And nowhere did I ever ask you to entertain me.  I don’t know where you pulled that one from.

    Something obviously touched a nerve here and I think some reflection is in order.  You’ve talked repeatedly in the past about emotions and what happens when they come to dominate the conversation.  I don’t think I need to say any more than that.

    P.S. When I read the comment about the vitamin B6 and know the potential problems, would you prefer I just walk away to my own blog?  For myself, if 100 people read this on my blog and went out and started dosing heavily with it and developed irreversible peripheral nerve damage, I’d feel pretty bad about it.

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 12:51pm

    #35

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    3+

    Sometimes People Seem To Forget

    I do agree with ao and dtrammel that the signal-to-noise ratio is diminishing somewhat lately, and I sorely wish that our cherished new members would take the time to read previous posts before posting (I know, that’s asking a lot,but it’s a waste to have to sift through stuff today, that was posted by someone else yesterday!)

    LOL, I do look back and wish I had not been that harsh with that newer member who did what many looking for answers did, ask without looking around. Its a habit too many do now with the instant answer machine we call the Internet.

    “Why isn’t what I need to know, right there in front of me?” people seemed to ask when they come to a site.

    As a person who makes content, here and on my own website, its often hard to manage your real life, work 40-50 hours a week, get some measure of sleep and still find the time to write informative posts on a weekly basis, never mind daily like Chris and Adam are doing. For every paragraph or chart you post, it usually takes lots of time to find the base data, make sense of it and then put it into a form others can use.

    You also have dozens of different subjects that need to be covered. I found long ago that there is always someone who will complain you aren’t covering their preferred subject. If you do their request, then someone else complains.

    As Chris said, if you don’t like what is being covered here, there are many other sites that are available BUT I will challenge those people with this. If its not covered here, then go out, do the research, write the explanations and then come back here and post them for others to read too.

    Its a two way street. Don’t gripe about the lack of coverage here, if you aren’t willing to step up and do the work to provide the information for the community as well.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:05pm

    #36
    Matties

    Matties

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    2+

    Re : The biggest event of our lives

    Well it is certainly unforgettable in China. Whether the virus will impact the “West” we will see. But economically this is a disaster in progress and everybody on the planet will face the consequences.

    I appreciate your (and colleges) efforts to inform.

    Just hoping that everybody get enough sleep in these stressing times. That too is important and it certainly improves your ability to cope with aversions.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:08pm

    #37
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Here is a paragraph from that Sars/HLA paper posted earlier and it’s an eye opener. The author is stating there was no ancestor to SARS. In other words, it was a manufactured virus. Did anyone else read the paper yet?

    “…..Different from other viruses, there has been no SARS patient other than lab infections after the widespread infections in January 2004. SARS-CoV does not exist in nature or people now. Hence the natural SARS epidemic history has some extraordinary abnormalities. What are the reasons? The most important reason could be that there is no direct ancestor of SARS-CoV in nature. It had an “unusual evolution”. It is very likely that it was “unnaturally” introduced to populations, so it did not follow the normal epidemic transmission rules.”

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:15pm

    Reply to #14
    BZM

    BZM

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    Re: Bombshell

    This is more than a Bombshell. The article says there is no natural host or path in genetics for SARS-CoV and therefore it must have been GM (Genetically Modified) i.e. a man made chimera.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:19pm

    #38
    Desogames

    Desogames

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    Back to the virus; possible explanation for the cruise ship

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-deaths-outside-china-surge-overnight-explosion-new-cases-suggests-outbreak

    Zerohedge has updated with the reaction of the japanese health officials to the allegations of the quarantine being poorly implemented. But what’s interesting to me is their description of the japanese elderly woman who died from the virus. To wit:

    The other, a Japanese woman in her 80s without underlying illnesses, came down with a fever on Feb. 5, the same day passengers were told they would be quarantined in their cabins for two weeks, according to health ministry officials. The next day, she started suffering from diarrhea and saw a doctor on board.

    That’s what happened. Her diarrhea got Aerosolized and spread via the air conditioning. It’s the only thing that makes sense for how this could infect the entire goddamn ship, shoddy quarantine or no. This is exactly what happened with SARS, and need i remind everybody, the official name for this thing is SARS-CoV-2.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 1:21pm

    #39
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    Yes - BOMBSHELL is More of a MEGATON NUKE

     

    Since it is peer-reviewed. And confirms that Asian populations seem much more susceptible to this virus – just like SARS. Here is the Link again-

    https://www.intechopen.com/books/hla-and-associated-important-diseases/association-between-hla-gene-polymorphism-and-the-genetic-susceptibility-of-sars-infection

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 2:00pm

    #40
    Matties

    Matties

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    Posts: 160

    1+

    HLA-B46

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HLA-B46

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 2:06pm

    #41
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

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    AliExpress

    Since the beginning of Chinese NewYear end of Januari we’ve put 21 new (little) AliExpress orders at variout little Chinese shops. Normally they ship the package within one day, but now only 3 of these 21 were shipped. Things really stopped working there

    John

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 2:17pm

    Reply to #31
    PenchantForHoarding

    PenchantForHoarding

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    Comment Drama

    Yawn.  I’m trying to read and learn stuff.  Everybody walk away from the blue light, take a break, take a breath.

    I just got here and if the comments turn into ZH, it’ll be a shame.  Dial it down and everyone be nice to one another.  Sheesh.

    “With so much drama in the LBC, it’s kind of hard being Snoop D-O-double G.”

    (Dating myself there 🙂

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 2:34pm

    #42
    pawch

    pawch

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    More on ACE2

    I think more and more people are coming to the conclusion that the ninja virus is coming to the rest of the world. So now the discussion should be shifting to how to prepare for that coming.

    Besides the obvious hygiene measures, start an aerobic exercise program (see below recent articles). There are myriad other benefits as well.


    ACE-2: The SARS Receptor Identified

    https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified

    Read the last line below the diagram. Both SARS 1 and SARS 2 (ninja) bind to the ACE2 receptor sites. There are two forms of ACE2, soluble and membrane bound. The circulating soluble receptors soak up the virus and retard its attachment to receptors fixed on cells.

    Two protocols of aerobic exercise modulate the counter-regulatory axis of the renin-angiotensin system (Jan 2020)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6970173/#!po=9.25926

    “The RAS exerts its physiological responses by two opposite arms: (1) a classical one, composed by the angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE), angiotensin (Ang) II and angiotensin type 1 (AT1) receptor; and (2) a counter-regulatory arm, comprising an ACE homologue enzyme named ACE2, the heptapeptide Ang-(1–7) and its G-protein coupled receptor, the Mas receptor.”

    “Data from studies with animals showed that physical training is capable of downregulating the classical RAS arm and upregulating the counter-regulatory axis components.”

    Physical Exercise and ACE2-Angiotensin-(1-7)-Mas Receptor Axis of the Renin Angiotensin System (July 2017)

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318804243_Physical_Exercise_and_ACE2-Angiotensin-1-7-Mas_Receptor_Axis_of_the_Renin_Angiotensin_System

    These studies support the conclusion that aerobic exercise in humans leads to more ACE2 and less angiotensin II.

    In addition having an angiotensin II receptor blocker on hand might provide a partial insurance policy against a fatal outcome. Unfortunately they all require a prescription, but it’s inexpensive. In SARS infected mice treated with Losartan there were about 60% less fatalities.

    Read the last line.

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joseph_S_Peiris/publication/7679870_Good_ACE_bad_ACE_do_battle_in_lung_injury_SARS/links/54aa33ec0cf256bf8bb96451/Good-ACE-bad-ACE-do-battle-in-lung-injury-SARS.pdf?origin=publication_detail

    COVID News You Can Use

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 2:41pm

    Reply to #39
    pawch

    pawch

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    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 31

    More meganukes

    https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2334-6-106

    Association of SARS susceptibility with single nucleic acid polymorphisms of OAS1 and MxA genes: a case-control study

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:02pm

    #43
    Matties

    Matties

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    Re : BOMBSHELL

    Quote :

    “The SARS CoV from the outbreak in Guangzhou during 2003-2004 was phylogenetically closer to earlier viruses in the 2002-2003 epidemics than the later viruses, which led to its rapid decrease in virulence. Therefore, the correlation would be expected to disappear because of the reverse genetics of SARS-CoV, regardless of whether the susceptible gene existed in the Chinese population.”

     

    So it seems to me they are saying that normally the virus shouldn’t be so infectious, it was sharpened, and that the normal way is a reverse evolution which will make it weak again.

    Then who sharpened it ? I doubt that the Chinese where capable of doing so in 2003.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:09pm

    #44
    Matties

    Matties

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    Posts: 160

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    Reverse evolution and the bible

    I found this on my search on reverse evolution. It is so unique that i couldn’t resist sharing here.

    reverse evolution and the bible

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:11pm

    #45

    ktruddymd

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 12 2010

    Posts: 15

    9+

    SARS-2: Vaccine Strategies and Challenges

    The official name of the new, novel (Wuhan) corona virus is “SARS-CoV-2”; the WHO has named the disease associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection “COVID-19”.

    Let’s just call it “SARS-2” for short.

    As a followup summary of Chris’s recent, excellent post re:  ADE (antibody-mediated enhancement), let me just add that … as a response to initial infection with a coronavirus like SARS-CoV-2, the body makes antibodies to the specific “serotype” (i.e., ‘thumbprint’) of the coronavirus which, in the majority of initial cases, neutralizes the virus (via a series of immune cell-mediated annihilating steps), and … You’re cured!  Hallelujah, no more cruises.

    However, many viruses (like many colors) come in many ‘shades’, or serotypes:  the coronavirus associated with SARS is one variety with different serotypes.

    Now, if a patient survives one serotype infection and later bumps into another serotype of the virus, the antibodies that were once so helpful become, well, traitorous!  

    Those old, once useful antibodies grab onto the new serotype, drag it to about a zillion immune cells that are waiting like the National Guard to be called into action, and “present” the new villain for ‘internal processing’.  Go to jail!  And that’s where the insurrection begins.  The old antibody inadvertently delivers the new coronavirus serotype inside the cell where, because of very interesting and evolutionary marvelous machinations (really, you have to give credit where credit is due; and these viruses are ingenious), the virus replicates like WILD.  More so than previously.  

    All those newly infected immune cells – the National Guard – become traitors, not because they are evil but because ‘they are told to do so’ by the combination of the new serotype, the old antibodies, and a ‘scaffold’ of intracellular instructions that, essentially, tell all those zillions of immune cells to … blow you up.  And they do.

    This is what we see when we describe Dengue (pronounced, “Den Gay’) secondary infection (i.e., the second time around) that produces a hemorrhagic, multi-system organ failure catastrophe.  By most judgments, the mortality rate for Dengue Fever is ~1%.  But secondary Dengue hemorrhagic fever and shock shoot the mortality rate up to a range of 10-43%.  Ah, that would not be good should it be applicable to SARS-2.  Just saying, put an extra pin in your hat.

    Here’s a terrific, detailed, peer-reviewed article on the challenges of making a vaccine against SARS-1.  I think it’s fair to assume that the same challenges may prevail when it comes to developing a vaccine against SARS-2.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/erv.09.43

    All the best, Doc

     

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:25pm

    Reply to #41
    Mots

    Mots

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    Posts: 146

    3+

    AliExpress and the alleged destruction of the Chinese economy

    A poster cited that AliExpress stoped selling and shipping during the luner new year as evidence of the destruction of the Chinese economy.
    Chinese new year is January 24 to January 30.  During that time the economy grinds to a halt, companies stop selling and shipping product, and the economic numbers go off the cliff.

    Normally.

    Every year.  Before any viruses or other problems.  I order electronic parts almost every day (and circuit boards about every three months) and am careful to avoid that vacation time.  The suppliers warn that they will not ship and everything will be delayed an extra week. Everything is shut down.  Normally.  Always.  Every year.  You can see this “fall off the cliff” of the Chinese economy in normal times.  The timing of this yearly “crashing” and falling of the sky action of the Chinese economy is not from a corona virus that comes every year like Santa Claus.
    This year, the “falling off the cliff” economic event wherein suppliers stop selling and shipping was extended at least an extra week for the whole of China until February 8.  An extra week due to the virus.  I talked with my circuit board supplier yesterday and they said that their falling off the cliff not working at all custom (which repeats each year come hell or high water) was extended until February 10, at which time they partially resumed operation, while some of the work force were further delayed due to individual quarantines, but that they are all basically at work now and are processing all regular new orders with normal quick shipping times.  So the Chinese economy yearly cliff falling was extended this year.  The GDP growth, or absolute GDP size will or did experience a big hit or possibly a contraction.  I have experienced longer than the usual winter delays due to an extended holiday period and further note that about 20% of the sellers even now are still “on vacation” (ie. under quarantine).   I dont think that the Chinese economy is crashing and burning.  We hear news when Apple closes its offices and stores but do not hear news when those open.   Their company offices in China opened some time ago (a week or two ago) and some of their main store outlets have already opened again.  Not news worthy.  I read on the main stream media that their factories are closed.  I dont know if that is true but will assume that the MSM always tells the truth and never lies or misrepresents anything.
    I am too busy to make this an issue but please folks, get a grip on yourselves.  I am more worried about cui bono in Japan.  Government minister(s) have publically stated their desire to get the oldest people out of the way (ie. “die already”) to alleviate social security, the public debt is mostly held by old people and that debt is mostly retired when they die due to custom and tax law.  Guess what the biggest impact of the corona virus will have on the Japanese economy?  I think that the bankers may be the winners in this..

    The more interesting topic is how the people would connect the dots and rebel.  I expect a “Magna Carta” moment wherein the provincial business leaders band together to try and muzzle dictatorship, because such is bad for business.   But no sign of that but I would expect a Chinese Magna Carta before a possible collapse in the Chinese economy.  It will be interesting to see what develops.  Meanwhile, I noticed that every employee in the local mega (hardware) store last week was wearing a face mask and the bullet train is constantly messaging the problem of not covering when sneezing and coughing.  Not enough but everyone is aware of a change.  I expect that now and future generations will have to spend billions and many lives to deal with a permanent new biohazard, courtesy of an emergent military that is playing around with death tools,  Why isnt anyone complaining about the multiple beautiful islands that were purposely destroyed forever in the S Pacific by the *** crazy US and French military death toy makers.  Or the fact that the US military itself has been the biggest single cause of carbon dioxide emissions for many years, or that the Chinese military showed off how great it is by purposely destroying satellites in orbit, showering a layer around the earth with shrapnel.  According to a satellite expert I talked with, there is a very serious possibility of not being able to send spaceships out at some time not that far in the future.  The big picture is out of control militaries that are destroying our health and the planet itself.  We need to walk away and build self sufficient communities of Dunbar number limit sizes having decision making at the local level.  All this keyboarding chit chat crapping consumes precious time and detracts from the goal of future prosperity, which requires getting out and creating real wealth at the local level.  To me this site’s main value is to focus on wealth production in a decomposing world.  Nice to learn how to avoid problems, but that is not necessarily the main focus, for me at least……………………

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:30pm

    #46

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 698

    3+

    2/20 Chris Video - "A Symptom of the Fourth Turning" Now Up

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NhJrca9Qts

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:35pm

    #47
    Carlos2020

    Carlos2020

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    Can someone please confirm this?

    Hi Chris, all. Today while scanning through Twitter I found this article on Natural News, that refers to a new study that you can find on (full PDF is paid)
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166354220300528

    Abstract:
    In 2019, a new coronavirus (2019-nCoV) infecting Humans has emerged in Wuhan, China. Its genome has been sequenced and the genomic information promptly released. Despite a high similarity with the genome sequence of SARS-CoV and SARS-like CoVs, we identified a peculiar furin-like cleavage site in the Spike protein of the 2019-nCoV, lacking in the other SARS-like CoVs. In this article, we discuss the possible functional consequences of this cleavage site in the viral cycle, pathogenicity and its potential implication in the development of antivirals.

    Quotes from the article:
    “A new study published in the peer-reviewed journal Antiviral Research (Vol. 16, April 2020) is entitled, “The spike glycoprotein of the new coronavirus 2019-nCoV contains a furin-like cleavage site absent in CoV of the same clade.”

    “As the science authors of the paper explain in the full text, “This furin-like cleavage site… may provide a gain-of-function to the 2019-nCoV for efficient spreading in the human population.”

    “Further, the science paper finds that there is no known viral ancestry to the CoVid-19 coronavirus, meaning it did not evolve from nature. It was engineered, and the science paper authors also state that the virus contains elements from MERS, stating, “Before the emergence of the 2019-nCoV, this important feature was not observed in the lineage b of betacoronaviruses.”

    “The new feature engineered into the Wuhan coronavirus has, “the potential to cleave specifically viral envelope glycoproteins, thereby enhancing viral fusion with host cell membranes,” conclude study authors.

    This feature results in, “higher pathogenicity, pronounced neural symptoms and neurotropism in infected chickens,” according to the paper. That means, essentially, it kills more easily and causes nervous system damage while infecting nerve cells. Note that many of the human victims in China appear to suffer seizures and a total, almost instantaneous nervous system shutdown, literally collapsing in seconds.”

    “Finally, study authors explain that people who have already been exposed to other viral infections may have enhanced immunity against the coronavirus.”

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 3:47pm

    #48

    Phil Williams

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 14 2009

    Posts: 274

    2+

    Got GLD

    HSBC may not make it out of this in one piece. For anyone thinking about moving their money into the ETF GLD, HSBC is the custodian.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 4:40pm

    Reply to #48
    ao

    ao

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    Posts: 1243

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    Phil, regarding GLD

    In the archives, a number of years ago, I warned about the dangers of GLD, even before the latest developments with HSBC (although it may have had a different custodian at that time).  If one reads through the prospectus, which I did from start to finish, there are multiple problems with that ETF, approximately twenty if I recall correctly.  So yes, buyer beware, BIG TIME!

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 5:50pm

    Reply to #3

    Barbara

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    Posts: 131

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    Translate - Quick and Dirty

    Run the video through a voice to text and then run the text through a language program.  At least we could get a written transcript.  Haven’t used the Asian ones because I can’t analyze the results, but use this all the time for quick and dirty conversions to German and Spanish.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:05pm

    #49

    westcoastjan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 325

    3+

    BC update Feb 20

    Woman from B.C.’s Interior is province’s sixth case of COVID-19

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:14pm

    Reply to #47
    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

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    protease cleavage

    Carlos, I’m not a virologist, so maybe someone can verify this. Anyway, I think it is known that certain viruses (like SARS) have a receptor binding domain that is highly specific for the receptor site on the host cell (e.g, ACE2) and host proteases have been known to then be co-opted into digesting parts of the receptor binding domain in order to gain entry into the host cell. Furin is a ubiquitous enzyme found in many pathways and it has a very simple cleavage sequence Arg-X-X-Arg that shows up in a lot of genes, so it’s hard to say right away what to make of that non-peer-reviewed finding.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 6:36pm

    #50
    NorthElkhound

    NorthElkhound

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    Fourth Turning

    I would highly recommend John J. Zenakis website, http://www.generationaldynamics.com if you wish to understand Strauss & Howe’s Generation Theory. I have followed him for years. He has been highly accurate in a number of forecasts of leadership, economic changes around the globe.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 7:02pm

    #51
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

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    Why no cases in the wild in the US

    So, I have been waiting for reports of cases in the wild after they would start testing.  I was very interesting in san francisco – as my brother is ill , and traveled there with a high asian population 36%.     Well, now something is suspicious.   Then I read this and its more so:

    Expanded screening for the coronavirus has been postponed amid issues with a test developed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

    Although the Trump administration had planned to expand screening to various state and local public health labs, only three of more than 100 such labs nationwide have verified the CDC’s test for use, Politico reported.

    The CDC has also had to postpone its plans to screen samples collected during flu surveillance for the virus using public health labs in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle. Former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Commissioner Scott Gottlieb told the publication further delays could leave public health officials ill-equipped to detect scattered cases as they accumulate.

    If our govt cant even handle testing or tests.. after virtually every country that does..  – and can handle them for patients coming back from the cruise,  why cant they do this??  oh because they have have those results -they jsut cant or wont disclose them so its easier to blame it on the tests or testing process.. this way they dont need to even alert the patient themselves which can leak to the public via family.. so this is real corruption 101.. and it tells you its much worse than ever..  Not for ONE minute do I believe  this story..  after announcing to do surveillance ..  let me know what you think

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:10pm

    #52

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Posts: 875

    6+

    More cases in the US?

    The Worldometers info site is listing 12 new cases in the US. No explanations anywhere about where or who that I can find yet.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:13pm

    #53
    Galway87

    Galway87

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    Posts: 10

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    Could be 18 to 24 months to get a vaccine

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/ut-austin-announces-coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:24pm

    Reply to #51
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    8+

    CDC the joke's on us

    It’s every man for herself.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:29pm

    #54

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    3+

    Counterpoint - Vaccine May Never Be Developed

    People keep throwing up the idea that a vaccine is soon, or in 18 months, or what ever time frame the latest hype from some start up biotech company needing investors can get out there.

    Based on what Chris has posted recently on the way first infections, and vaccines increase the severity of a second illness, I have to say bluntly, there will be no vaccine and we need to plan accordingly.

    We need to identify and put in place strong protective measures to keep from getting this virus.

    We need to figure out good self administered medicinal and herbal measure we can take if we get this virus to minimize the damage it does.

    We need to prepare for major disruption of our social structure and ways we can get by without outside help.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:35pm

    Reply to #52
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

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    Definitely reaching a boiling point here with case info suppression...

    Mark – ughh – I’m having same problem,  have to hunt through bits and pieces to find clues.  “Is it cruise ship, military quarantine, in the wild” ?  No info! ……WTF…..The CDC better get there shit together, this is ridiculous, like Chris mentions in today’s video, Singapore has info graphics pictorials describing all their cases!

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 8:46pm

    #55
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    1+

    Hawaii quarantines

    What a crap show!
    So the couple with Coronavirus toured through Maui and Oahu and dozens they came in close contact with were self quarantined.  Now some will start to leave quarantine because of no symptoms……Well what if they are still asymptomatic?   They have tested no one! How is this being thorough?

     

    “State health officials say they have not found anyone exhibiting suspect symptoms of coronavirus in Hawaii and have not tested anyone.”

    https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/02/people-being-monitored-for-coronavirus-in-hawaii-are-starting-to-go-home/

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:23pm

    #56
    Satoshi Nakamoto

    Satoshi Nakamoto

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    Joined: Aug 18 2014

    Posts: 6

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    Wuhan Institute of Virology co-authored research above?

    In Chris’ video above, at the 21:06 point, he introduces a scientifically peer-reviewed report published by the American Society of Microbiology on the possible dangers of secondary coronavirus infection (along with the associated web URL address for the report, in the lower right corner of the video).  I actually went to this web page and read the report directly (to the extent of my satisfaction, I’m not a microbiologist).  While I was reading, I was mistakenly under the impression that the paper was in reference to the COVID-19 virus, but in fact, it was specifically about SARS and MERS coronaviruses in particular, among other viruses.

    As it turns out, the date of publication of this report is Dec. 11, 2019, immediately before the existence of the COVID-19 virus became widely known.  And one of the co-authors is the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which means that research to understand this coronavirus antibody-dependent enhancement mechanism was being carried out in Wuhan for several months, if not several years, beforehand – on the viruses known to be most similar to COVID-19.

    And maybe this research was being very secretly conducted on COVID-19 at the time as well?  The timing is horribly coincidental.

    Forgive me for any obvious paranoia and cynicism here, but it’s my guess that the name “Wuhan” will never be forgotten hereafter, pretty much like the names “Chernobyl”, or “Titanic”.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:54pm

    #57

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

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    2+

    FBI has ordered $40,000 in hand sanitizer and face masks ‘in case the coronavirus becomes a pandemic in the United States’

    FBI has ordered $40,000 in hand sanitizer and face masks ‘in case the coronavirus becomes a pandemic in the United States’

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/20/fbi-orders-40000-in-hand-sanitizer-and-face-masks-in-case-of-a-coronavirus-pandemic-in-us.html

    =============================

    Hong Kong cop tests positive for Wuhan virus

    Hong Kong police officer had fever when attending party of 60 people

    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3879223

    ===========================

    There are plenty of videos showing people with the disease in China just dropping in the streets. This guy says this is in Hong Kong:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSn2kZD41o

    ========================

    11 people evacuated to Omaha test positive for coronavirus

     Federal experts confirmed that 11 of 13 people evacuated to an Omaha hospital from a cruise ship in Japan have tested positive for COVID-19, Nebraska officials announced Thursday night.

    The University of Nebraska Medical Center said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had verified test results completed Monday by the Nebraska Public Health Lab.

    Ten of those people are being cared for at the National Quarantine Unit while three are in the nearby Nebraska Biocontaiment Unit. The medical center said only a few of the patients were showing symptoms of the disease.

    https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2020/02/20/11-cruise-ship-evacuees-test-positive-coronavirus-omaha/4828442002/

     

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 9:56pm

    Reply to #56
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Or the Bhopal India disaster....

    I think some scientists have a lot of explaining to do. The SARS HLA paper everyone is talking about today was published in March 2014 so it has no doubt been well read in the 6 years that has passed.

    That means a lot of people in the virus industry have been tuned in to what has been going on for a very long time already.

    Its just us outsiders who are now catching on for the first time. The simple obvious conclusion is that both SARS CoV viruses were deliberately created for the express purpose of depopulation.

    Can we just say that out loud now?

    Lets not kid ourselves anymore. Our own governments are prepared to kill us to balance the books, stay in power, meet environmental Green initiatives and correct imbalances created by health sciences that have been so successful almost anyone can live into their 90’s if they choose.

    Something had to give. And since nothing did give this virus got dreamed up instead. Did the Chinese make it? Maybe. Did they make it with the assistance of the West? Probably. Are they all in it together?

    Don’t make me laugh! Of course they are.

    Snakes and bats remember. The snake symbolizes a serpent or dragon and the bat symbolizes the Eagle.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:17pm

    #58

    dtrammel

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    Evaluating Points of Infection - Your Wallet or Purse

    I can’t help but think this crisis, if it goes as bad as we hope it doesn’t, will completely change normal habits and things we do from day to day.

    I’m of a mind how before the AIDS crisis who put on a condom for sex? Now, who doesn’t?

    I have a uv sterilizer coming this week, to put at my door in a sanitation station for when I come home.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W7HSDPZ/

    Its big enough that I can put my mask, glasses, keys and cell phone in, and run them for a term of uv light and hopefully kill any virus that I’ve picked up. I plan on a small plastic tote at the door with a inch or so of bleach water to disinfect my shoe soles.

    I may or may not decide that I need a laundry basket at the door too, to remove my outdoor clothing and don a house robe and slippers.

    Thinking about this, I realized that after your cellphone, the most probable carrier of infection is your wallet or purse. How often do we open both during the day? The credit card I use out in the world is not the credit card I want at my computer ordering from Amazon. How many odd things I rarely use (business cards, random gift cards) do I carry in my wallet?

    Perhaps I should reconsider what I carry in my pocket for economic commerce. Maybe just an easily disinfected money clip, an ID, a credit card and some cash would be sufficient? With it going into a plastic bag when you enter. Remember, not everything needs to be disinfected if you don’t need it in your green zone.

    ADDED: I write sci-fi and other fictional works, with a few published the last few years. As a writer I’m used to thinking of all the angles and ways you can screw your characters to further your plot.

    A week or so back, I posted at the end of on of the video threads, this list of possible infection entry points. Something to consider:

    “Knowing where the trap is—that’s the first step in evading it.”
    Frank Hebert, “Dune”.

    I feel we are at the point that we can go from the planning stage to the tactical stage of this crisis, that is identifying the routes this virus takes to infect the population and the figure out the ways to avoid that infection.

    While each of us will have a different path to walk in this darkness, we will all face some common dangers, and some less than common.

    With the assumption that no one person can view all directions of a circle, that it is an act best done by many, I wanted to open a discussion into what are going to be the ways we encounter the virus, how likely it may effect us, and ways of which we can avoid becoming ill, and spreading it to others.

    Without judging the severity yet or the ways we might protect against infection (which we will cover later), I will throw out some general thoughts and observations about the ways I see the virus spreading.

    Please rate what you think is the severity of each of these routes. And any you see I’ve missed as well.

    Via Family Member:

    I think this may well be the most likely pathway that we get infected. The close quarters we live with our partners, children, parents and even roommates, means that when one member of the household group becomes infected, it means the almost certain infection of the others in the group.

    This route is made more severe by the asymmetrical nature of the virus, how it seems that an infected individual can show no symptoms, and still be shedding infectious particles. By the time you realize a family member is infected, you all will probably have it.

    Via Emergency Healthcare:

    A hospital emergency room at the best of times is a swamp of pathogens and illnesses, made worse by close quarters. With it being more and more likely this virus spreads via aerosol transmission, being able to prevent infection in such an environment is problematical.

    Yet there are just some medical help that you can not provide in a home situation.

    Inside of Your Car: You have to assume that the inside of your car or truck is going to be infected. While you can slow this down by wiping surfaces like your steering wheel, door handles and stick shift will cut the risk down, your clothing may pick up the virus and transfer it to the seats of your car.

    Child Care:

    Unfortunately too many people rely on third party child care, which often involves the children of people outside of our contact circle, making each child a possible route of infection.

    So too staff, who will be exposed and possibly infected.

    Handling The Dead:

    I haven’t yet seen any information on how infectious the dead bodies are. I must assume that given the virus can live for several hours to several days outside of the body to mean that handling the dead will have risks.

    Also many people experience a loss of bodily functions at death. Fecal transmission I believe has been established. Bedding will also be infectious. Cleaning and preparing the dead for burial or transportation to disposal will carry risks.

    Accidental Infection When Removing PPE:

    More of a contact pathway, when removing your personal protective equipment, like masks and glove, you can accidentally infect yourself or your environment.

    Casual Romantic Partners:

    Not sure if bodily fluids are infectious, but the close contact any romantic encounter has almost certainly offers a pathway to infection is on partner is asymptomatic and does not know they are infected.

    Casual Necessary Contact:

    Sales people, store clerks even the police officer who pulls you over for a ticket can share a space with you long enough for infection.

    This can include physical items you pick up in a public area. A box of food at a store, which was handled by an infected individual just before you pick it up, may transmit the virus to your hands.

    Shared Meals and Food Preparation:

    We have already seen a group infection via a communal meal time happen. Though viral infection of food yet to be confirmed, shared meal prep, utensils and close quarters provide a pathway for the virus.

    Shared Sanitation Facilities – Public/Private:

    Fecal transmission has been established. Back splashing of contaminated waste water which aerosals provides one pathway, as does contaminated surfaces like toilet seat and sink surfaces.

    Public Transportation:

    Areas which have mass transit, like buses, subways and trains put large groups of people in close proximity and shared air.

    Domestic and International airplane travel presents risks as well.

    Private Transportation:

    Carpooling as well as Ride Share services like Uber and Lyft, present the possiblity of previous riders and/or the driver being infected and contaminating the interior of the vehicles.

    Work Spaces:

    Coworkers and work spaces can become infected by just one or two people. Those that work there, or those that need to stop by to conduct commercial activities can be infected. Those areas which are small and enclosed, like elevators will magnify the risk.

    Public Entertainment:

    Bars, concerts and theaters offer large groups of people sharing space for a length of time enough to transmit the virus.

    Surface Contact:

    Will depend on how frequently the surface is contacted. Out of the way door knobs will be less likely to be retouched before the virus dies. Exterior door handles which have many people per hour touching them will likely stay infected.

    Mail and Shipped Packaging:

    Will depend on the length of time it takes to get from first point of infection to the final destination. Exterior surfaces will be less likely to be infected due to exposure to the air and sunlight, though interior contents may present difficulties. Someone infected sneezing on a document, which is packaged and shipped by next day air, may still be infectious on arrival.

    Items shipped via sea transport, truck or train and not opened immediately less likely.

    What other routes of infection can you identify?

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 10:47pm

    #59
    kunga

    kunga

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    Removable outerwear

    I ordered some light weight plastic rain gear from Amazon.  Installing a simple, outdoor, camping shower in detached carport.  Will shower, in rain gear, with disinfectant solution after unloading packages from back of truck.  Rinse outerwear in bleach solution, hang on clothesline. I have to work out the sequence of steps I will use to go from a designated red zone to an uncontaminated green zone in the carport.  Then into the house

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:13pm

    #60
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Bleach

    My wife used to bleach our vegetables before starting to prepare them. She was African and had plenty of experience.

    At first I thought the idea was nutty but once I realized what she was doing I could see how it made sense.

    Basically she was making a veggie bath that was about the equivalent of creating chlorine for killing germs in the same way swimming pools keep bacteria under control.

    She was not alone. All the ladies were washing veggies that way since African fresh food markets are bacteriological nightmares where everyone (both healthy and sick) are touching the food as they make selections.

    The other thing she used to do was keep a spray bottle with a weak bleach concentration for washing down and spraying counters, doors and tools. And all this was long before Wuhan fever arrived.

    So the knowledge is already there if we use it. But expensive consumer preparations that kill germs are not always necessary.

    Cheap bleach does the trick.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:24pm

    #61

    dtrammel

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    China's Uyghurs Problem

    Anyone else think holding a million minority prisoners in close quarters with a highly infectious virus on the loose might be a problem?

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:31pm

    Reply to #58
    kunga

    kunga

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    Rout of infection

    I think for people who wear glasses, this is going to be tough.  We know the eyes can get infected from droplets or aerosols.  Recommended is something tight fitting like swim goggles or a tight fitting eye guard.  Chemistry safety glasses won’t cut it.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:37pm

    Reply to #61
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Grateful for freedom

    Yes, dtrammel it is a problem. It’s also a problem for anyone who lives in any kind of institutional setting. So not just prisoners but also homes for the handicapped, runaways, addiction centers, single mothers, abandoned children and old age facilities and barracks. The military is at acute risk as they are no more free to leave than captives.

    Let us be grateful for our independence.

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  • Thu, Feb 20, 2020 - 11:40pm

    Reply to #58
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Swimming goggles

    Thats brilliant kunga! I just put swimming goggles on my list of things to buy.

    On a different subject, gold is up 88 dollars in less than 14 trading days. The hourly chart is starting to look just like the parabolic infection rate chart. Weird.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:08am

    #62
    Kris1981

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    ADE possibly NOT culprit for secondary infection?

    Chris, multiple articles I found said that secondary infection was worse because DRUGS TAKEN during first round caused tissue damage to heart and lungs.  Is it possible it’s the drugs patients received that caused second infection to be worse?  I have not found info clarifying if second infection was bad for those who had taken drugs first time vs those who had not, nor have I been able to find info on which drugs were taken that supposedly damaged tissues. Because of this I question whether one should accept if a doctor prescribes antivirals or other medication, at least until more is known.  It would be “good news” if man-made pharmaceuticals are to blame rather than naturally occurring antibodies.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:25am

    Reply to #39
    chrissie.sugden

    chrissie.sugden

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    Re Bombshell

    I agree that it’s a bombshell that the paper says SARS has no natural ancestors. But I see nothing in the paper that compares Asian HLA to other races. There is a suggestion there but no evidence. Or did I miss something?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:46am

    #63
    Matties

    Matties

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    Re : Wuhan Institute of Virology

    Not so fast. Until now nobody knows where this virus came from. Both SARS and SARS2 seem to be weaponized virussen. China decided to study SARS which is, in the way of this world, logical and moreover, when they wouldn’t do that would be risking to be accused of dangerous neglect.

    It seem to me that SARS in 2003 was way out the technological league of China.

    And now we have SARS2 with subtle changes in the SPIKE protein and MERS insertions.

    Who profits ?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:51am

    #64
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    Yes - BOMBSHELL Is That EAST ASIANS Seem Far More Susceptible

    It is very clear from the start to the end of the paper. Others can read it here-

    https://www.intechopen.com/books/hla-and-associated-important-diseases/association-between-hla-gene-polymorphism-and-the-genetic-susceptibility-of-sars-infection

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:45am

    Reply to #15
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    ao, Chris' intentions re: PP site naming

    ao, you said, “While the name of the website was changed from The Crash Course to Peak Prosperity in the past, I’m not aware of him [Chris] having any intention of changing it to Peak Corona Virus.”

    Not that I was concerned about that non-issue, but I’m glad you cleared it up for Chris and the rest of us.

    Movin’ on.

    Thank you and have a pleasant day and an even better tomorrow.  🙂

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 3:11am

    #65

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    12+

    Gail Summarizes What Is Known

    I believe that Chris and Gail have a tremendous ability to synthesize data points and their efforts are greatly appreciated by me.  Here, Gail Tverberg summarizes the last 2 weeks of Chris’ daily reports.  (Abbreviated)

    [1] COVID-19 is incredibly contagious.

    COVID-19 transmits extremely easily from person to person. Interpersonal contact doesn’t need to be very long; a taxi driver can get the virus from a passenger, for example.

    [2] The virus likely remains active on inanimate surfaces such as paper, plastic, or metal for many days.

    Surfaces in airplanes, trains and buses may also harbor viruses, long after a passenger has left. The only way to avoid spreading COVID-19 seems to be geographic isolation.

    [4] The real story regarding the number of deaths and illnesses seems to be far worse than the story China is telling its own people and the world.

    The real story seems to be that the number of deaths is far greater than the number reported–perhaps 10 times as high as being reported.

    China doesn’t dare tell its people how bad the situation really is, for fear of panic. They want to tell a story of being in control and handling the situation well.

    [5] Our ability to identify who has the new coronavirus is poor.

    While there is a test for the coronavirus, it costs hundreds of dollars to administer. Even with this high cost, the results of the tests aren’t very reliable. The test tends to produce many false negatives.

    [6] Some people get much more severe symptoms from COVID-19 than others.

    Most people, perhaps 80% of people, seem to get a fairly light form of the COVID-19 illness. Groups that seem particularly prone to adverse outcomes include the elderly, smokers, those who are obese, and those with high blood pressure, diabetes, or poor immune systems. Males seem to have worse outcomes than females.

    Strangely enough, people with East Asian ancestry (Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese) may have a higher risk of adverse outcomes than those of European or African ancestry. One of the things that is targeted by the disease is the ACE2 receptor. The 1000 Genome Project studied expected differences in ACE2 receptors among various groups.

    Also, restarting after a shut-down is more difficult than it might appear. Take, for example, a mother who wants to go back to work. She will likely need:

    • Public transportation to be operating, so she has a way to get to work;
    • School to be open, so she doesn’t need to worry about her child while she is at work;
    • Masks to be available, so that she and her child can comply with requirements to wear them;
    • Stores providing necessities such as food to be open, or she may be too hungry to work

    [8] A shutdown of as little as three months is likely to be damaging to the world economy.

    Multiple things are likely to go wrong:

    (a) Commodity prices are likely to fall steeply, because of low demand from China. Oil prices, in particular, are likely to fall steeply, perhaps to $30 to $35 per barrel. Besides cutbacks in oil demand from China, there is the issue of a general reduction in long distance travel, because of fear of traveling with other passengers with COVID-19.

    (b) US businesses, such as Apple, will find their supply chains broken. They won’t know when, and if, they can ship products.

    [9] The longer the shutdown lasts, the more likely there is to be a major collapse of the Chinese economy. 

    [10] Planners everywhere have been guilty of “putting too many eggs in one basket.”

    Planners today look for efficiency. For example, placing a large share of the world’s industry in China looks like it is an efficient approach. … the world will suddenly discover that long supply chains weren’t such a good idea.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 4:34am

    #66

    Taz Alloway

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Reported cases are the tip of the iceberg.  Many infectious diseases manifest with a range of severity and the percentage of minimally apparent and inapparent Covid-19 infections are unknown right now. We do not know the true burden of illness from this disease yet. Early days.

    Here is a well written article from Helen Branswell – an experienced infectious disease journalist who has covered SARS through novel influenzas to…

    Experts say confusion over coronavirus case count in China is muddying picture of spread

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 4:51am

    Reply to #64
    chrissie.sugden

    chrissie.sugden

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    Posts: 11

    Re Bombshell

    The paper makes no mention of the frequency of the HLA alleles in other ethnic groups. All the comparisons are within the ethnic groups mentioned. Also it was written a good few years ago and so has nothing about ACE 2 pathways etc. I think it would be unwise to assume we in the West will get off lightly based on this paper alone.

    The apparent evidence that the original SARS virus, and hence also SARS-2 presumably, have no natural ancestors and have therefore been genetically modified by humans to be more contagious, is a lot more worrying. If they were intentionally released we have even more to be worried about than we thought.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 5:16am

    Reply to #13
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    Re: no other subject than corona virus

    ao-

    Yeah, I’m guilty of overfocus on the virus too.

    Part of my issue/excuse is that I think this event could be a forcing function that might actually bring about a reality check that endless printing has been able to paper over now for a decade.  Its like “nature batting last.”

    I also see it as an astonishingly asymmetric trading opportunity, with a “reward” out there for anyone who can look ahead to the course of economic events 3-6 months down the road.  Real black swans don’t happen often, and especially black swans that flap around for weeks, croaking out loud, black swan noises, while the markets seemingly just sits there, pretending that nothing is going on, leaving you plenty of time to take a position – enough time to wonder, “is this just my imagination?”

    These things don’t happen often – a few times in a lifetime.  2001.  2008.  And now.  Its the super bowl.  The world series.  I’ve created my tools.  Here it comes…

    My puzzle: how to participate in this experience while retaining my equanimity.  Without getting sucked into the emotional vortex of fear that – as we know – will act to pound my immune system and bring about the very events that are the cause for concern.

    As for the relative importance of this: I don’t see any other single near term force that comes close to this in terms of market impact.

    So I want to participate, and maintain my equanimity at the same time.  That’s the real test.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 5:37am

    Reply to #48

    Phil Williams

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    GLD Danger

    AO,

    I agree. I’ve read the prospectus too. Very shady. What’s the point of owning gold with counterparty risk? I saw a chart the other day that showed an increase in GLD inflows over the last six months as the price of gold has risen. When people see the price of gold rising, they call their financial person and tell them they want into gold, and of course they buy GLD. If things go really bad, GLD investors may be left holding an empty bag. Imagine being right about the trade, but wrong about the vehicle. Ouch.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:32am

    #67

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Scientific Research a Casualty of the Crisis as well

    Something I hadn’t considered.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/disruption-enormous-coronavirus-epidemic-snarls-science-worldwide

    Also a bit about pharmaceutical supply chains too.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:55am

    #68

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    1+

    Iran reports 2 more deaths, 13 new cases of new coronavirus

    Iran reports 2 more deaths, 13 new cases of new coronavirus

    https://apnews.com/ebdbf56585701c3e8a298c51368b810d

    =========================

    Coronavirus updates: South Korea reports big jump in cases, virus spreading in Chinese prisons

    South Korea declares ‘special management zone’ following spread from church

    The mayor of South Korean city of Daegu said it was facing an “unprecedented crisis” after a series coronavirus infections linked to a single church service, as worries mounted in the country.

    The number of cases of coronavirus in South Korea has doubled in 24 hours, reaching 204

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/coronavirus-update-south-korea-reports-big-jump-cases-virus-spreading-n1140201

    ============================

    23 more infected with coronavirus in Japan, including 2 gov’t workers

    https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200221/p2a/00m/0na/004000c

    =============================

    Japan Limits Large Gatherings to Thwart Coronavirus

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hit-japan-limits-large-gatherings-11582282621

    ==========================

    More than 500 new coronavirus cases are detected in PRISONS across China, fuelling fears about the virus’s ability to spread – as Iran confirms two more deaths and Israel and Lebanon announce their first cases

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8028275/More-500-new-coronavirus-cases-detected-PRISONS-China.html

    ============================

    Three Italians test positive for the coronavirus in northern Italy

    The first patient had dinner in early February with a friend who had just come back from China, according to Lombardy welfare councillor Giulio Gallera.

    Around 100 people are now reportedly being tested for the virus in the city of Codogno, where the three live.

    Italian media said 60 people had been placed under quarantine as a precaution.

    https://www.thelocal.it/20200221/three-italians-test-positive-for-coronavirus-in-lombardy

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:11am

    #69
    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

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    “That’s on top of last week’s confirmed case in Africa. So now the virus is on every continent save Antarctica.”

    I don’t see any cases in South America.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:33am

    #70
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Posts: 289

    Not even solitary confinement makes you safe

    Death was stalking Jeffrey Epstien months before his end. Had he not died already Corona would have gotten him eventually.

    You can’t run and hide. Especially in prison. But even solitary is not far enough away when it comes to airborne viruses.

    I expect this illness to take a steep toll on those who are incarcerated. At the best of times prisoners do not get much medical care. Some jails in poor countries will become graveyards. Note to others…This is a very bad time to piss off the judge at your child support hearings.

    So stay outa jail!

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:41am

    Reply to #69
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

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    South America

    Yes, South America is one of the seven continents

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:45am

    Reply to #46

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 826

    10+

    I think we're screwed

    dtrammel –

    If this is indeed the onset of the Fourth Turning societal crisis, that makes Millenials the Hero archetype.  It’s up to the Millenials to “save” us.  Probably with vehement tweeting and social media angsty warfare.

    As a Boomer and a Prophet archetype, I am of the opinion that we are screwed.

    Get off my lawn.  😉

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:49am

    #71
    Galway87

    Galway87

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    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 10

    3+

    U.S. numbers

    How did U.S. go from 29 to 16?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:55am

    #72
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    2+

    Thoughts on Travel restrictions?

    Why has the US not updated their travel restriction put in place earlier in February?

    Being pro-active I would think about adding Singapore, South Korea, and even Iran (yes anyone can hop a a plane there now, but not sure who is).

    As I understand the existing restrictions now are

    1. Set of health checks and mandatory quarantine for those coming back from Hubei province.  Foreign nationals may be denied entry completely.

    2. For those coming back anywhere from China , a health check and self imposed quarantine at home.

    These existing restrictions are probably not effective either because of asymptomatic nature, short quarantine, and dependent upon folks to self quarantine.   I don’t know all the factors But why not consider making these stricter by increasing quarantine length and/or make it more of a true ban?

    While the available  flights are reduced I checked and can book a flight this weekend from LA to Beijing on United and China southern air and come back to US and just get temp taken and go home.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:13am

    Reply to #71
    thad1a

    thad1a

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 2

    3+

    Cases not even being widely reported in the US

    New one in Humbolt County, CA that is not being picked up by any major news sources.  Definitely something fishy going on in the US.  Especially with the CDC kits not working so no local testing can be done.

    https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/first-case-of-novel-coronavirus-confirmed-in-humboldt-county

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:16am

    Reply to #71

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 826

    2+

    29 to 16

    James –

    I can’t recall the source article, but I read that the spike to 29 came from considering individuals who may have tested negative on the current nucleic acid diagnostic test, but show all of the coronavirus symptoms to be classified as confirmed cases.

    After a trip to the replay booth, the call on the field was overturned and 14 cases were later determined to not be COVID-19.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:19am

    #73
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    2+

    State dept and CDC on the return of 14 infected cruise passengers

    Great, CDC and State Dept. arguing………not sure which one is more inept at virus response but when you have both not listening to each other well……

    None of the infected passengers were showing symptoms of the virus, triggering a debate between the State Department and the CDC. The State Department and a Trump administration health official wanted to send the passengers home on the chartered flight out of Japan anyway, the Post reported. CDC officials, however, warned against evacuating the infected, due to concerns over re-exposing healthy passengers to the virus. When State Department and administration officials decided to go through with the evacuation, the CDC’s principal deputy director, Anne Schuchat, requested not to be included in the news release announcing the decision.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:28am

    #74
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    1+

    Coronavirus in the workplace

    While not top of mind now, here is interesting commentary about Coronavirus in the workplace, especially those in healthcare:

    https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/coronavirus-at-the-workplace-19261/

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:40am

    #75
    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

    3+

    New cases in Italy

    In support of the idea that nothing gets detected until there’s unusually severe cases of viral pneumonia is the situation with the six new patients in Italy. One man presented in serious condition with pneumonia, and was found to have been to a dinner with someone who had traveled to China. The traveler to China himself was not ill, and tested negative for the virus!

    I read these reports to get an idea for what is the most likely unusual event that I might experience. How about being accused of spreading a virus no one can prove you have! The man who traveled from China is now in isolation in the hospital, unable to work, because he is the most likely link. But who knows where they all got the infection honestly. Confusing!

    A few days ago I came into contact with someone whose family member travels to Asia frequently. The family member was sick last week, but I’m going to guess they did not ask for a coronavirus test. Who would do this to themselves voluntarily unless they were so short of breath they had to go to the hospital?

     

    and to those who feel reassured thinking that Asians are more severely affected, note that all six Italians who tested positive for the virus are in severe condition.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:41am

    #76

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    3+

    Demographics, Doctors and Death from COVID-19

    With a supposed demographic breakdown of mortality by age of:

    COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

    Age                                                   Fatality Rate
    80+                                               14.8%
    70-79 years old                         8.0%
    60-69 years old                         3.6%
    50-59 years old                         1.3%
    40-49 years old                         0.4%
    30-39 years old                         0.2%
    20-29 years old                         0.2%
    10-19 years old                         0.2%
    0-9 years old                             no fatalities

    I am a little surprised by the reported deaths of doctors in China. To be sure, it has been indicated that potentially thousands of health care personnel have been infected (1700 with 7 deaths according to AP) but they are by definition the most likely to be rapidly diagnosed and get the best care. That said, the deaths reported in western media include:

    Dr. Li Wenliang – age 33. Sick Jan 10, hospitalized Jan 13, diagnosed Jan 30, dead Feb 7. (well-known whistleblower)

    Dr. Liu Zhiming – age 51 (Hospital director) – “he became infected and died despite “all-out” attempts to save him.

    Unnamed doctor (today) – Age 29. Hospitalized Jan 25, worsened Jan 30, died Feb 21.

    I haven’t seen reports for the others who died (maybe nurses don’t get high enough billing?). I am also not sure what the likely percentage of doctors is among the 1700 health care professionals who are afflicted with COVID-19. The young ages of the known doctors who have died from the virus is unusual but perhaps not statistically impossible given the reported mortality rates. What doesn’t make sense is the apparent lack of older doctors dying from this virus. Are there so few older Chinese doctors? Are the fatality rate age demographics accurate? We probably won’t know until the unfortunate mortality statistics reach large enough numbers in countries outside of China. Even when the infection levels rise though, it looks like the time between hospitalization and death can be ~4 weeks so we will always be behind the curve on understanding the demographic outcomes.

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:55am

    Reply to #73

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    6+

    Revised revision on the "infected", "not infected" -- oops ïnfected US Diamond Princess passengers

    11 of the 12 new cases is the US last night were from the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Of the reported 14 infected Americans, 13 ended up in Nebraska (not sure where number 14 went). Now eleven of the 13 have been verified to have tested positively for the virus (confirmed by the CDC).

    I’m really not gaining a lot of confidence in the ongoing US response to this virus outbreak….. I guess being the vaunted World’s Sole Superpower isn’t all it been cracked up to be.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:55am

    #77
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    Joined: Aug 20 2019

    Posts: 23

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    Mark I have to agree with you and admit that the same thought crossed my mind.

    When you have young doctors making an exit to the celestial realm it is time to reassess things. These folks are well versed in what to look for, and can count on getting the best care that their relative nations have to offer. These are not cases of the old or the poor being tossed aside by an uncaring and ineffective system.

    From what I can see this virus is bad. And if it is as bad as it seems from what reading I’ve done? I’m not sure there is going to be a way to contain it or guard against getting it if you have a job that entails being around others. Unless you can check out of the current economy you have to get out and mix with others.

    Maybe the best we can hope for is that it is contained to a degree that gets us into spring. Then maybe it will subside in the northern hemisphere until we can perhaps get a vaccine ready for next winter.

    Will

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:57am

    Reply to #31

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 131

    4+

    The biggest event AND not the only event

    Chris,

    As someone with identified coronavirus in my area, I appreciate your work to keep COVID19 information analyzed and updated for us.  You have also helped clarify the interactions with our broken economy.

    That said, I had two thoughts regarding other topics.

    First everything is connected, so if we focus only on virus statistics and economic manipulations, we might miss a subtle 2nd order effect or another “black swan” that could come back to bit us.

    Second, whenever MSM and the officials start orchestrating a circus, I wonder what we are supposed to NOT SEE.  E.g. Impeachment circus distracted from events in China. – just mentioning.

    So Chris, you and Adam are doing a bang up job keeping up with coronavirus and it’s potential social and economic impacts so the rest of us don’t have to do that in depth analysis.  What you’re making available publically is providing a critical service.  Thank you.

    I’d like to remind the members that we shouldn’t be posting speculative information on the public posts, but to keep unverified thoughts behind the paywall.  I say that because I’ve caught myself in the wrong location a couple of times.

    As you point out, we’re all self-directed adults here.  We can be each other’s eyes and ears to monitor other issues that MSM is trying to hide so the entire group can benefit from wide monitoring for other factors that may otherwise creep up on us as we focus on the biggest event.

    We’ve talked about drug shortages and food safety, but I’m monitoring the flooding in agricultural areas.  It’s possible the breadbelt will have another wet and less productive summer.  If travel restrictions limit food imports from heavily infected areas, there could also be food shortages and massive increases in food prices, perhaps at the same time the economy starts to go south as the supply chain crumbles.

    So keep up the good work Chris and Adam while some of the rest of us use the time you’ve given us to scan for other potential risks that often come as an add-on to possible collapse.

    Here’s a list of potential additional neon (ok he likes “white”) swans to monitor from  Roubini.  Here’s Roubini’s covid comment.

    “The Covid-19 outbreak has reinforced the position of those in the US arguing for containment [of China] and lent further momentum to the broader trend of Sino-American “decoupling”. More immediately, the epidemic is likely to be more severe than currently expected and the disruption to the Chinese economy will have spillover effects on global supply chains – including pharma inputs, of which China is a critical supplier – and business confidence, all of which will likely be more severe than financial markets’ current complacency suggests.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/19/the-white-swan-harbingers-of-global-economic-crisis-are-already-here?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR2758x89Cgh_cMmKjqNlDII3Xps6roM48qERDin9PK2DvOlGowb98UKCK0

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:58am

    #78
    kbeckett

    kbeckett

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    Joined: Feb 04 2020

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    2+

    Gail Tverberg has a great summary

    Ms. Tverberg, over at her blog “Our Finite World” has posted a great overview:

    https://ourfiniteworld.com/2020/02/18/easily-overlooked-issues-regarding-covid-19/

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 9:07am

    #79
    ao

    ao

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    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    3+

    MS Westerdam returnee

    My Australian friend was one of the individuals to get off the MS Westerdam and get back home.  He said only two planeloads left Cambodia before the authorities stopped any more from leaving due to the supposed single case that was found.  Some 255 people were still stuck on the ship while an estimated 800 others were sequestered in hotels in Phnom Penh waiting to be tested.  He also presented some of the questionable aspects of the diagnosis of the single passenger as well as very plausible larger political, diplomatic, and legal  reasons for why she was detained.  He had used elderberry syrup and masks at my suggestion and wisely kept his family socially isolated and protected to the best of their ability.  The details of his family’s experience was interesting but that’s all I’m going to say here for now.

    He is a very wise and intelligent person, kept his cool, and stayed surprisingly calm about the whole situation.  He is also a Vietnam vet so I’d guess after surviving that, this didn’t seem like much in comparison.

    While this corona virus is certainly a matter of grave concern and has the potential to alter global dynamics in a historical manner, it hasn’t yet reached the point where I would consider it the biggest event of my lifetime.  When you consider the Americans, Australians, French, South Vietnamese, North Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, Chinese, Russians, etc. who were killed or wounded in the course of the Vietnam conflict, the refugees created, the homes destroyed, and the political, geopolitical, economic, and monetary repercussions, the Vietnam War was of far greater consequence.  Look at the death tolls.  There is no comparison.  And if you happened to be Iraqii or Iranian, the Iran-Iraq War entailed a level of carnage that was apocalyptic for those people.  And I could go on and on naming conflicts during my life time and the horrendous losses that were involved.  So, yes, the corona virus could be the biggest event of our lifetime but it has not yet, according to the facts and data so beloved on this site, reached a level to surpass a number of those other events.  Let’s hope and pray it never does.

    P.S. To get some idea of what I’m saying, read about just one day in one battle in one conflict the Battle of Hamburger Hill (Hill 937) in Vietnam in 1969.  On May 20th, the hill was pounded with 20,000 artillery rounds and 272 air strikes with a total of 1 million pounds of bombs dropped and 152,000 pounds of napalm dropped leaving a minimum of 630 dead NVA and probably far more (and with the number of wounded unknown but an obvious multiple of that), 72 dead Americans, and 400 wounded Americans at the end of the battle.  Think of the cost of life and limb, the economic cost, the environmental impact, etc.  If I had to pick being in the middle of that fighting or the middle of Wuhan, I know what I’d pick.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 9:20am

    Reply to #31

    dcm

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 14 2009

    Posts: 122

    5+

    “The Poster Child of Responsibility“

    1. The second you claim the title is the  moment you’re disqualified.   I love ironies. I also love this site and (what I humbly observe) is an unselfish passion that Chris and Adam devote to “complex systems” and the “complex problems” that come with them.  Is anyone really surprised that a man with Martenson’s background and education would become a little passionate and focused on something like this? Beyond that, this subject, although new, has all the elements  of everything this site is devoted to – how the real world and it’s explosive problems in ecology, biology and yes psychology, are the ultimate dictators of our “financial health”   As Chris and Adam remind us, we’re living in incredibly unique times with incredibly unique threats – and these are global Sounds like a little devotion to a global pandemic with a virus unlike anything seen before is far from over doing it

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 9:31am

    Reply to #69
    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

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    Joined: Feb 19 2020

    Posts: 6

    I know South America is one of the continents. Where are the confirmed cases since Chris said the only continent not to have a case is Antarctica.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:02am

    #80
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 27 2020

    Posts: 50

    OUCH

     

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/02/20/dominoes-falling-global-shipping-covid-19-continues-grip-chinas/

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:08am

    Reply to #48

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 633

    What about CEF?

    Phil and AO……isn’t CEF supposed to have actual reserves?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:21am

    #81
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

    3+

    apparently the rest of the world is testing and scared of this

    Look at the italians , at least they are testing .. here they would not meet the criteria.. and even if they did apparently they dont have the ability to test  – according to the release about postpone the surveillance in the four cities in the US.. by testing people who present with flu like symptoms .   So, I have no words..  the US is just letting it fly. I guess they want all the elderly people to die – so they dont have to pay the SSA and medicare we pay..  This is just another tax.. that we will never see.   Forth turning .. US is done.. look at all the beautiful helpful accurate information and infographics and videos put out by the asian countries – even north korea.. meaning while in the US we are morons.. its just flu but milder.   US is done..

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:24am

    Reply to #45
    alanrgreenland

    alanrgreenland

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    Joined: Nov 07 2010

    Posts: 45

    7+

    @ktruddymd -- Could Most Wuhan Cases *Be* Re-Infections?

    Is it possible that a large number of the “SARS-2” (COVID-19) cases in Wuhan could be among people who previously had SARS-1 (the original SARS), and therefore they are experiencing this 2nd-infection phenomenon you described above??  Seems like this could explain the obviously very high death rate in that region, and even the cases of people “collapsing in the street”.  What do you think?

    And let me add:  I appreciate all the different perspectives here at PP (on this topic, and others).  I mostly read; don’t post very often.  I find that I can get valuable info on Topic B from someone I disagree with on Topic A.  So thanks to all who contribute!

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:32am

    Reply to #81
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    No worries we only have 15 US cases 🤨

    NordicJack – I just checked the official CDC site (the real experts) and there’s only 15 US cases.  So no worries 🤭.

    Oh wait, what about the cruise ship evacuees?  Other sites like World meters  list 27 and WSJ that says 34 cases?   🧐.   And that humboldt county CA case?

    I’m so 🤯🤬😡😤 !

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:32am

    Reply to #69
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 24

    Sorry, misread your post.  🙂

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:41am

    #82

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    4+

    Can't you just hear the CDC saying I told you so to the State Department?

     

    7 new cases in the United States from the Diamond Princess cruise ship, in addition to the 11 previously confirmed, for a total of 18 from the ship.

     

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:44am

    Reply to #70

    westcoastjan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 325

    4+

    Do you actually believe Epstein is dead?

    There are a lot of us who are rather skeptical of his demise. My money is on he is alive and living it up under Israeli Mossad protection. I hope it is no where near young women…

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:53am

    Reply to #80

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Global Shipping and a Malware Attack Too

    Andy, your link is behind a paywall. Here is one that covers the shipping concerns that isn’t:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/business/shipping-coronavirus-impact/index.html

    Also, hackers are using the crisis to try and infect port computers. No doubt for ransomware attacks.

    https://www.proofpoint.com/us/corporate-blog/post/coronavirus-themed-attacks-target-global-shipping-concerns

    https://www.techrepublic.com/article/global-shipping-industry-attacked-by-coronavirus-themed-malware/

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:15am

    Reply to #58
    Onward

    Onward

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 18 2020

    Posts: 2

    4+

    Re: routes of becoming infected with virus

    Dtrammel, you make some excellent points regarding ways one might catch the virus or transmit it to others.  Right now I’m trying to avoid catching the regular flu, which is severe in my area, because I have lung problems and lowered immunity.  My background includes working with hospitalized patients who had severe communicable diseases, and so I’m trying to educate my partner in infection control techniques.  Sigh.  Not an easy thing to teach to someone who never studied biology or needed to worry about infections.

    Automatic responses sometimes creep in.  A friend sees you and rushes up to give you a hug and a close greeting.  Or someone enthusiastically greets you with an outstretched hand and before you know what you’re doing, you shake it.  Or you use your hand sanitizer after you handle the store shopping cart, but then you handle the packages, your car handle, your keys and the steering wheel — then you use the hand sanitizer again.  Whoa, see the whoops there?

    I was active on Peak Prosperity years ago but my computer crashed and with it went the login info.  COVID19 has brought me back.  I did all the prepping in 1999, then again for the ‘bird flu’ worries, and then for the 2009 swine flu.  Here we go again but this time with a renewed earnest effort.  Thank you Chris and Adam, Dtrammel and all the posters for the information you’re sharing.  I read and absorb and try to prepare, again.

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:28am

    Reply to #23
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 157

    Desogames

    Well I gotta say I feel much better now after reading your essay.

    You did leaveout a couple of things though. I assume you have a very complete arsenal to defend all that gold and silver. Plenty of ammo too.

    I would like to get your thoughts on the “Mad Max” movie we will be starring in should all of this unfold as you predict. Btw just where will you be spending that gold and silver and on what?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:31am

    Reply to #48
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    2+

    Oliveoilguy, with regards to CEF

    Yes, it is certainly better than GLD but again there’s that counter-party risk issue.  Also, there’s the “friction” issue with any precious metal fund including CEF.  It costs money to maintain that fund, so each year your principal is gradually whittled away by the 0.73% annual management expense ratio.  That adds up pretty quickly, especially if gold and silver are trading sideways or heading downward.  There’s also the problem of the trust being based in Canada.  A number of years ago, Canada burned American holders of energy trusts with changed regulations and with a distinctly left leaning leader in Canada, I’d be fearful of a similar situation potentially occurring with a gold and silver trust at some point in the future.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:38am

    Reply to #70
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 157

    3+

    Epstein

    I have it on good authority he is living in the Clinton’s basement

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:43am

    Reply to #31
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    dcm, you misquoted me

    I said the poster child of self-responsibility.  There’s a difference.  I’m not sure what that disqualifies me from since you didn’t state that but if that thought comforts you in your mind, who am I to question your perception regardless of whether it is misplaced or not.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:45am

    #83
    DennisC

    DennisC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2011

    Posts: 113

    1+

    Revised Revisions...

    I just love it when some taxpayer-funded bureaucrats get into a pissing match with some other taxpayer-funded bureaucrats.  Tells me, at least, what a great team we have here.  I checked out the CDC site today and they changed the display from what I remembered a couple days ago.  The “imported” cases were previously described in a footnote, now they are broken out/reported separately.  Since I finished enough grade school to feel comfortable doing easy math, it would be simple (at least IMO) to have a line that indicates (i.e. adds up) all cases in the U.S.  I suspect the contest described above (and in some other posts) has something to do with this.  If one or more of the 18 “imported” positive cases infect others in the U.S., will we have a yet third category of confirmed cases?

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:55am

    #84
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    a good book for the times

    https://www.amazon.com/Markets-Mobs-Mayhem-Modern-Madness/dp/0471233277

    The reading of which can be accompanied by the reading of the poem, If, by Rudyard Kipling.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:01pm

    #85
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    4+

    get your rest, relaxation, and recreation

    If you start heading too far to the right of the Yerkes-Dodson workload curve, your performance and life will suffer.

    W160401_GINO_YERKESDODSON

    https://hbr.org/2016/04/are-you-too-stressed-to-be-productive-or-not-stressed-enough

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:06pm

    Reply to #79

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 131

    3+

    Wuhan better than Vietnam?

    For myself, personally maybe, since I’d not yet be shooting at children.
    US Veterans groups of Vietnam survivors are banding together to demand the VA admit the impact on physical (agent orange) and psychological health.  They’ve started a campaign to reach other vets to inform them of the newer programs the VA has finally been forced to provide.

    That said, Vietnam soldiers knew when their tour ended – we could have to fight this for years.  They didn’t have to worry about their kids dying due to contamination from their experience.  The danger of bombs and bullets is clear and immediate.  You don’t need to worry for 3 weeks in case your family was contaminated by something you brought home with you.

    Since the great depression and WWII, most western countries have had a pretty cushy life.  For most of history and now in large parts of the world fear and deprivation are a normal way of life.
    Between the huge potential for economic and social disruption and the probable health impacts, Covid is the most serious issue out there.

    As Chris and many others have said, this is a group that looks at data differently; neither as a conspiracy nor a reason to panic, but rather with the need to look at all the contradictory ideas and weigh them carefully.  As we catalyze small islands of sanity and preparedness around us, we do a great service.
    As Viktor Frankl pointed out, it’s not the horror of the experience, it’s what we as rational beings make of that experience internally.  And a lot of PP people would add that it’s also what you do in your immediate environment to make things just a little better to the best of your ability.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:15pm

    Reply to #70

    westcoastjan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 325

    2+

    and he's getting off watching re-runs with Bill

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/jeffrey-and-i-had-everyone-videotape-ghislaine-maxwell-reportedly-told-socialite

    Barf!

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:21pm

    #86
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    1+

    California cases

    New Sacramento county case in addition to the humboldt county case.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-02-21/coronavirus-humboldt-sacramento-county-total-california-cases-to-15%3f_amp=true

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:22pm

    Reply to #79

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 826

    3+

    The Fourth E?

    ao,

    You and I have been around here long enough to know that half the time this site runs on superbly assembled data and reasoned debate.  The other half is hyperbole and emotion.

    The hard part for many (seemingly) is discerning between halves.

    If you see Yooper Surfer Dan, say hello for me.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:26pm

    Reply to #79
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    4+

    i wouldn't go there

    Barbara, I wouldn’t go down the “shooting at children” road.  You risk the danger of falling into the category of those who verbally abused, spat upon, and even physically attacked servicemen who were returning from Vietnam.  How many of those cowardly attackers will step forward now in the present day and claim credit for how many servicemen they spat upon?  Not too many I venture.

    Barbara, how many people in Wuhan had themselves captured, tied up, their skin slowly peeled off their bodies in strips left hanging, their genitals mutilated, despicable acts perpetrated upon them, and their testicles dangled in front of their faces and then stuffed down their mouth.  You don’t have a clue what went on!  Do you want to hear more?  I’d guess not.

    The Vietnam vets have also had to worry about carcinogenic, teratogenic, and other effects on both their children and their grandchildren from Agent Orange and the other dioxins.

    How about the Vietnam vets who were POW/MIAs and allowed to die a slow, miserable death in North Vietnam, not because the shape of the bargaining table in Paris, but because of the disagreement on the topic of war reparations.  Unless, perhaps you believe the US government’s version of events.

    And now let’s look at the flip side of the equation, the North Vietnamese perspective.  The saying of “Born in the North to die in the South” was not created without a basis in fact.  At least a million died, probably more.  Then there are the lingering effects of dioxins causing a YOY rise in birth defects.

    That’s just one data point.  At least a million dead and untold more physically and psychologically wounded and maimed on both sides.  So you’re telling me the corona virus has presently reached that scale?  Please.

    It may in the future but not presently.

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:40pm

    #87
    Galway87

    Galway87

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 10

    Thousands in US are in quarantine

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/431674/coronavirus-voluntary-quarantine-thousands-california-new-york/

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:47pm

    Reply to #79
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    2+

    good to hear from you Rick

    I couldn’t agree with you more.  As I’ve emphasized to many people I’ve taught over the years, “mental management” is all important, particularly in an impending or impacting crisis.  If one doesn’t manage one’s fear, one is lost.

    Surfer Dan is some crazy dude, isn’t he?  There’s a man who has mastered fear, maybe too well, lol.

    Remember when we walked out on Black Rocks?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:50pm

    Reply to #49
    Snow Eater

    Snow Eater

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 28

    1+

    BC Interior case

    Jeepers that’s two for the interior now. Of course, no one where I live is paying any attention to this stuff; it’s easy to feel protected by the distance away from cities.

     

    I hope the officials in charge of this really drive the point home to these people that isolation is very important.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 12:59pm

    #88
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

    How to know when we are in BIG ass trouble?

    I come home today to see my wife bought a canister of powdered cheese.  Really,  I asked her what are we going to do with that – that is all flavoring stuff with all kinds of chemical additives…   I said by the time we get to that, we know we are in big ass trouble.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:05pm

    Reply to #88

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 826

    4+

    We are here

    Everything is flavored with chemicals because everything is chemicals.

    And physics.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:23pm

    Reply to #49
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

    4+

    Re bc interior

    I am banking we are loaded in the interior , exterior , middle or whatever( anterior , and posterior ) here in the US.  We just don’t know it yet.   my internet went down 2 days ago – had a guy here today – seemed like he was getting over some sort of infection.. I am treating it all like its the corona virus..  A service guy can see a bunch of people through the week..  I am like paranoid disinfecting things.    Wish me the best.. trying to figure out when to need to isolate.. bottom line avoid as much contact as possible.. but to bring sick people into the home is a whole other kind of stupid..  wish me and mine luck.. My guess is the way this bad boy gets around – its everywhere now.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:25pm

    Reply to #79
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 1913

    4+

    biggest event

    ao-

    Oh for sure the current event hasn’t reached “wartime” levels just yet.

    However, unless we have some sort of intervention, much of the world is going to get absolutely nailed by this thing.  Just do the math.  6-day doubling period.  How long until you reach 50 million – in many (most) countries, especially in the third world?  My math says: about 3 months.

    Multiply by the CFR (and in many places, the “overwhelmed hospital CFR”), and … that’s certainly worse than Vietnam, because it is every country, not just one country.

    We just have to hope we find a cheap & effective treatment that mitigates that CFR within the next 3 months.  Maybe its Chloroquine.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:28pm

    #89
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    5+

    Charles Hugh Smith's Covid-2019 series of posts

    “Of Two Minds” blogger and author Charles Hugh Smith has also been covering the Covid-19 outbreak for the past several weeks in his series of excellent posts (link below). He is a frequent PP guest contributor and interviewee on PP podcasts with Chris.

    COVID-19 Pandemic Posts

    https://www.oftwominds.com/pandemic-posts2020.html

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:46pm

    #90

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    2+

    Italy orders mass closures after COVID-19 cases quadruple

    Italy orders mass closures after COVID-19 cases quadruple

    Officials ordered schools, public buildings, restaurants and coffee shops in ten towns in northern Italy to close after a cluster of 14 new COVID-19 cases emerged.

    https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-italy-orders-mass-closures-after-covid-19-cases-quadruple/a-52467865

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:51pm

    Reply to #79

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 131

    1+

    AO you assume too much

    “shooting children” was actually on my mind because it is one of  the things my vet friends mentioned as something in their nightmares.  We had a discussion about it and they decided that it wasn’t a question of feeling guilty about doing what was necessary.  It was simply that it was sane to be bothered by being forced to kill.  A couple talk about being scared when around soldiers that obviously enjoyed the killing, since those didn’t appear to be sane, as in the scenarios you described.

    Far from spitting on people who were there, I’m still appalled by the treatment of Vietnam Vets by both the military and the spoiled idiots who abused them when they returned.

    Perhaps you’ve been spending too much time with liberals like those who abused Vietnam soldiers?  Nobody like that on PP.  Just because someone is sophisticated enough to know that psychological trauma [like waiting locked in an apartment building for your children to catch a fatal disease] can be as hard as physical trauma of being in a war, doesn’t mean both trauma’s aren’t understood.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 1:53pm

    #91

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    2+

    :43 pm: Only three states can test for coronavirus because of flawed kits

    :43 pm: Only three states can test for coronavirus because of flawed kits

    1:43 pm: Only three states can test for coronavirus because of flawed kits

    California, Nebraska and Illinois are the only U.S. states that can currently test for coronavirus, the Association of Public Health Laboratories told Reuters. The CDC last week said some of the testing kits sent to U.S. states and at least 30 countries produced “inconclusive” results due to a flawed component, and the CDC planned to send replacement materials to make the kits work. The CDC has increased testing capacity until new testing kits become available, said Scott Becker, the executive director of APHL, which represents public health laboratories in the United States. —Reuters

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/coronavirus-latest-updates-outbreak.html

    ===============================

    CDC prepares for possibility coronavirus becomes a pandemic and businesses, schools need to be closed

    “We’re not seeing community spread here in the United States, yet, but it’s very possible, even likely, that it may eventually happen,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, told reporters on a conference call. “Our goal continues to be slowing the introduction of the virus into the U.S. This buys us more time to prepare communities for more cases and possibly sustained spread.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/us-health-officials-prepare-for-coronavirus-outbreak-to-become-pandemic.html

    =================================

    Coronavirus: US facing ‘tremendous public health threat’ as imported infections rise; World Health Organisation set to launch Wuhan probe

    Also in Friday’s briefing, Tedros urged the world’s governments to remain vigilant against the virus after new infections were reported in Lebanon and Iran with no immediate clue how the pathogen had reached these Middle Eastern countries.

    “The cases that we see in the rest of the world, although the numbers are small, but not linked to Wuhan or China, it’s very worrisome,” Tedros said.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051874/coronavirus-world-health-organisation-experts-set-launch-wuhan

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 2:43pm

    Reply to #79
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    2+

    Barbara, glad to hear you have respect and compassion for the Vietnam vets

    But please don’t you assume who I hang out with, one way or another.  And I almost guarantee you there are individuals here who are among the spitters or would have been if they had the opportunity.  Being a PPer doesn’t confer sainthood or any particular political bent for that matter.  Also, although I’m sure you understand the truth from talking to your vet friends, your last sentence seems to suggest that the trauma of war is only physical, which we both know is far from reality.  Unlike the physical wounds, the psychological wounds can be as fresh 50 years afterwards as the day they occurred.

    About 2% of combat soldiers are criminally psychopathic.  They actually enjoy the killing.  Whether they are sane or not is a question I’ll let psychiatrists debate.  It’s noteworthy that serviceman in WW2 shot children to protect themselves (in such places as Saipan and Okinawa) but no one would dare to call them baby killers.  That all changed with Vietnam, however, as the influence of the left grew via covert influence and support from the Soviets.  Your friends bear no guilt.  The guilt falls upon those who would use their children as human shields or worse yet, armed combatants.

    All this being said, if we stay objective and eschew emotion and hyperbole, the facts and data clearly show the scale of the corona virus crisis does not yet begin to match the scale of something like Vietnam.  In no way does that statement preclude this present crisis from exceedingly the scale of the Vietnam war in the future.  One can make predictions, prophecies, prognostications, etc. but NO ONE knows for sure until events actually happen.

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 2:53pm

    #92

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    4+

    California Tells 7,600 People To Self-Quarantine Over Concern Of Coronavirus Spread

    California Tells 7,600 People To Self-Quarantine Over Concern Of Coronavirus Spread

    SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF/AP) — People in California who have recently returned from visiting China are being asked to stay home for the rest of the month to help stop the spread of the new coronavirus.

    The California Department of Public Health said Friday that 7,600 people have been urged to self-quarantine: stay home, monitor their health and limit interaction with other people.

    The figure does not include those who visited the China’s Hubei province region where the virus is thought to have originated, as those travelers have flown on charter flights and been quarantined on U.S. military bases, including Travis Air Force base in Fairfield.

    The self-quarantine directive applies to travelers returning to the U.S. on or after February 2.

    https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/02/21/california-tells-7600-people-to-self-quarantine-over-concern-of-coronavirus-spread/

     

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 2:59pm

    Reply to #49

    westcoastjan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 325

    1+

    you and me both!

    But my trust/faith level in authorities is rather low, which kind of plays into the 4th turning theory of how things will go…

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 3:24pm

    #93
    isjrb029

    isjrb029

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 16 2009

    Posts: 11

    3+

    Not finding it here

    Not find the new video here kind of weird but I wanted to thank Chris and crew for taking time to bring insight to this site  I started here many years ago and then life happened  1 years later here I am and this site just like back then is just awesome  think it is time to start paying for all of your hard work  you guys rock!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0NhJrca9Qts

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 3:35pm

    #94
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    2+

    Practicing prevention

    Received at post office a five box order, mostly from Amazon.  I am wearing gloves now, whenever I go off property.  Loaded boxes in back of pickup, wiped gloved hands and door handles with disinfectant wipes.  Unloading was awkward.  I sprayed outsides of all boxes with lysol.  Unpacked objects I wanted to store in carport like extra gloves and rain suits.  Sprayed down with lysol.  Remainder of objects I want in the house, lysol sprayed, sitting on back porch.  Amazon, etc. is going to be shocked, but I predict my on line ordering is going to drop.  Things are going to be a hassle.  Next Friday probably my last order.

    Also, I have designated a pair of waterproof shoes as the footwear for off property trips.  These shoes will stay outside, in carport from now on, never in the house.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 3:48pm

    #95

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 178

    4+

    This outbreak is REALLY starting to get legs now: Italy, Iran, South Korea, Japan

    And still, the vast majority of the people around me are SITTING DUCKS

    “Well that’s all the way over there”

    Interestingly though, the costco in Yorba Linda, California was OUT of hand sanitizer.

     

     

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 3:53pm

    #96
    Sabemenos

    Sabemenos

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 21

    4+

    People will not comply with quarantines

    I was in a large Pennsylvania hospital today and while waiting for my ride I saw a sick kid wearing a mask being wheeled to the exit.  As soon as the nurse left his mother started ridiculing him for wearing the mask. Embarrassed, he took it off. Doesn’t matter how reasonable self isolation and precaution instructions are.  People are just going to ignore them. Don’t ask me why

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 3:53pm

    Reply to #79
    Rajkumarijay

    Rajkumarijay

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 08 2020

    Posts: 44

    5+

    Again with the one size fits all

    Barbara, I enjoy your posts. I must say though that lumping all “liberals” together as people who would spit on Vietnam vets is a broad generalization. I consider myself a moderate liberal and yet I have great respect for ALL veterans whether they were immersed in a war zone or not. Anyone who selfishly gives time to keep us safe is a hero in my book. I said this in an earlier post that we need to work together even with different political views.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 4:45pm

    Reply to #23
    Desogames

    Desogames

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    No need for guns

    Better to have melee weapons. Having a gun just makes you a target for other people who carry guns; for who you’re no threat when you only have a stick…. But if they can choose between targets who are no threat, they will pick the one not ready to struggle.

    Except if you’re American then by god get a gun. Everybody else already has one.

    Nor am i dumb enough to keep my precious metals in my home. They’re in a private vault, with a company which guarrantees contractually that whatever is in there, and they don’t even know whats in there as it’s essentially a black box, is economically and legally mine. This opposed to a safe deposit box at a bank, where it counts as part of the bank’s balance sheet. Meaning if the bank goes bust it gets confiscated and used to pay off creditors.

    Honestly, do you really think movies are real life? We’re not all going to die dumbass. Alot of us are going to die. Especially old folk. Alot of people will lose all they have. Just like they have before *countless times before* in history and afterwards they rebuild.

    But hey if you wanna be the guy sleeping in the same room with 10 others working for a buck an hour just like they did in china until very recently; you do you. I intend to have this crisis lift me out of poverty, simply by not being a dumbass and losing much much less then everybody else.

    Back to virus news! This rumour of being able to be infected more then once has turned from a rumour into a persistant rumour (multiple sources same rumour) and that’s good enough for me to say Xnay on the immunitay. The problem doubled *yet again*.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 4:54pm

    #97
    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 146

    3+

    Japan is a petri dish

    Assuming that information in this website is factual, clearly ca. 2% or more of the world’s population (mostly the aged, sparing the very young) will die from this within about a year.  Doubling time is 6 days, hmmmm.  And, reinfection is possible? If so, then possibly that 2% is an underestimate.

    This genetically engineered problem may be just the thing that spurs serious small community development with final demise of popularity of big city living.  It is appropriate that Peak Prosperity become the go-to place on the internet for dealing with this corona problem.  Make no mistake about it, this problem  was created and enhanced by big government organizations in large cities such as downtown Wuhan (P4 biowarfare/research lab), NY (political WHO), Tokyo/Washington DC (politicians overruling health experts) .    Small community development enclaves of educated and thoughtful people will become desirable places to be, as seen during collapse of the Roman Empire, and probably for the same reasons.

    This is why CM’s new community development in NH is a big deal.  There is nothing more important than contributing to development of independent small community of Dunbar limit size that avoids national and globalist forms of corruption, while the empire collapses. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number )  I hope that the recent invigoration in this PP blogsite is just a beginning and that CM’s new community becomes an oasis where educated people who follow reason and logic can provide un-biased teaching and enlightenment to others.  I hope to see more videos but also formal tabular information for looking up information “that you cant live without” and which the nationalists and globalists cannot focus on or provide.  I look forward to the new community and hope that knowledge gained from its development can be used to help others build communities of Dunbar limit size in a kind of informal franchising.

    I look forward to regular sessions from CM and maybe the Sandman/others that summarize and document in tabular form, best available knowledge for a. prevention practices (focusing on low cost options such as diluted chlorine wipes that you can make yourself, UV light-how strong and how long-, sunshine on surfaces-how long);  2. low cost treatment practices (including over the counter chemicals such as vitamin C, N-acetyl cysteine, separately from restricted drugs as treatment modalities), oxygen machines that have become inexpensive sources of purified oxygen; 3 behavioral changes needed including inter-personal distances, types of masks how to wear etc. in a one-lookup table static website page that can answer questions without rooting though the postings.

    Japan is a petri dish of community minded action.  I am delighted that the neighbor island’s guest house refused to accept its scheduled guests from Tokyo this weekend due to corona concerns.   Yesterday bullet train ridership was off 8% (presumably will decline much more from here) and had constant messages about coughing and sneezing without a mask.  News here is less censored than in the US and certainly less than in China.  The last time corporate corruption created a disaster in Japan (Fukushima) the entire country cancelled all festivals for a whole year in empathy for the victims.  I expect no less this time.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 5:01pm

    #98
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    1+

    Chris' newest video: "Accelerating" (2/21)

    Coronavirus:  The Pandemic is Accelerating Worldwide (2/21/20)

    https://youtu.be/rnJ2iLZd7HY

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 5:36pm

    #99
    thejacksonteam

    thejacksonteam

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 29 2012

    Posts: 13

    webinar

    Where can I find the replay of todays webinar?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 5:36pm

    #100
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    1+

    South Korea now at 346 total cases

    Another 142…

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN20G02F

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:11pm

    #101
    Rajkumarijay

    Rajkumarijay

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 08 2020

    Posts: 44

    3+

    Light disposable raincoats

    What do you think of this idea? I can’t find the disposable paper coveralls so I ordered a packet of 10 disposable plastic rain coats. I was thinking I could have a bucket with a bleach and water mixture that the raincoat could be dropped into and soaked after exposure to someone sick. Then after awhile, the jacket could be hung up to dry. They come with draw string hoods and elastic wrist bands. Coupled with swim goggles and Facemask and using wellees that can also be rinsed off with a bleach mixture that’s a suit of protection. Maybe not the best but do you think it would be fairly protective?

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:13pm

    #102
    Petey1

    Petey1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 13 2012

    Posts: 19

    2+

    Supplies out of stock

    Emergency food supplies are listed out of stock for the most popular items where I buy mine.  Things might become hard to get real soon.  Stock up while you can.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:23pm

    #103
    karenf

    karenf

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2010

    Posts: 56

    4+

    I am a lab rat

    Hi Chris – I know this sounds crazy and foolish but I work in a hospital lab and I have resigned myself to the possibility that I may get this.  With the US not trying to test much or get on top of this quickly it could pop up in any hospital at any time.  No one is doing anything at this point to preemptively/proactively stay safe.  It looks like we are just sitting ducks.  I am not leaving my job and recognize that the system may be behind the eight ball to protect us.

    I will follow all of your suggestions to keep myself healthy through this.

    Karen

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:43pm

    #104
    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

    1+

    Time course of patient survival (or not) in the ICU

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1230993803307253762/photo/1

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:46pm

    #105
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    3+

    US messaging is getting real...Dr. Scott Gottlieb and Michael Osterholm on CNBC...

    Dr. Scott Gottlieb and Michael Osterholm speaking on CNBC this evening. Their messaging is getting real…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A9BT3lAGHU

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 6:47pm

    #106
    Awka72

    Awka72

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 10

    2+

    Transfer of 70 cases in California??

    What is going on in California!? https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/02/21/costa-mesa-coronavirus/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:10pm

    Reply to #98
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

    1+

    Thank god the officials are downplaying this.

    You still have  a prep window.  But , I would say it is like squeezing a fat man through a 2ft square window.     I am taking inventory and finishing my prep tonight.   After this week, I will be shopping with a respirator.  and going out about 1 every 10 days.. I think this is sufficiently out in the community in the US now.   I will be reloading my expireable preps weekly.   I do have somethings that expire in 1-3 mos..  but, not dependent upon.   But, its game on.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:12pm

    #107

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1433

    3+

    Hazmat suits

    CNBC has been doing some good reporting on the novel coronavirus and related topics. This article is about DuPont churning out hazmat suits in advance of when they’ll be desperately needed.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/coronavirus-dupont-ramps-up-safety-suit-production-amid-china-shortage.html

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:14pm

    Reply to #106
    Green Acres

    Green Acres

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 04 2010

    Posts: 8

    1+

    Thoughts on the transfer

    I suspect this is a plan to move COVID-19 patients in Northern California plus an unknown number of Americans who tested positive who remain in Japan.   As of right now from worldometers, I show there are 35 cases in the US, and there aren’t 35 in Northern California (not sure how many, but I know it’s not 35), so probably more than 35 positive Americans who were on the DP are coming from Japan.   Again, this is conjecture using data we have.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:15pm

    #108
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    3+

    Beijing restauranteur contemplates bankruptcy within weeks...how many more like this...

    Economic woes around the corner.   A restauranteur in Beijing with 14 outlets contemplates bankruptcy within weeks.   How many more by the time this is done…

    Short 1.5 minute long CNBC video:

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/02/21/coronavirus-a-huge-threat-to-restaurant-business-in-china.html

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:17pm

    Reply to #99
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    TheJacksonTeam, here's the video link

    Here’s the link to today’s PP Covid-2019 video:  https://youtu.be/rnJ2iLZd7HY

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:29pm

    Reply to #101
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    1+

    Rainsuits for improvised PPE

    Rajkumarijay, personally I think your approach using rain suits is better than using the paper coveralls. Here’s a link to a video by Brad Harris/FSS about using rain suits and other items for improvised PPE when commercial/traditional PPE are not available or affordable:   https://youtu.be/oeH6r_SHloc

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 7:43pm

    Reply to #103
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 329

    2+

    lab rat

    Karen , do not wait for the govt or hospital officials to protect you.. You can show them how serious this is , as you are qualified educated laboratory worker.  Take precautions.  Wear everything necessary to handle specimens.  I know you cannot create a clean room etc.. but , you can practice best hygene.. and you can certainly wear a respirator and eye protection along with protective clothes , and do not eat until you have showered. and remove/change all clothing etc.. before leaving the lab.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 8:23pm

    Reply to #103
    yaz

    yaz

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 5

    3+

    RE: Lab Rat

    Hi Karen — I’m no longer in the lab, but did work as a clinical microbiologist for several years and have been keeping up with the posted CDC guidelines for health professionals, schools, and businesses (for some reason the one for schools was removed all together a couple of days ago after being updated for this virus…but that’s a different topic). From what I read, all work is to be done under the hood and virus culture will not be attempted in hospital labs. I don’t know what department you work in, but if I was still in micro, I would run ALL flu tests under the hood wearing an N95 and discard gloves and gown immediately after (even if not flagged for Corona testing). Followed by proper hand washing and hand sanitizer up to my elbows in case I missed anything during hand washing. Here are the most recent guidelines for the laboratory: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/lab/lab-biosafety-guidelines.html

    Increasing your Vitamin C & D now + other immune boosters should also help. Stay Safe!

    -Y

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 10:37pm

    Reply to #101

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    2+

    My Phase Two PPE

    What do you think of this idea? I can’t find the disposable paper coveralls so I ordered a packet of 10 disposable plastic rain coats. I was thinking I could have a bucket with a bleach and water mixture that the raincoat could be dropped into and soaked after exposure to someone sick. Then after awhile, the jacket could be hung up to dry. They come with draw string hoods and elastic wrist bands. Coupled with swim goggles and Facemask and using wellees that can also be rinsed off with a bleach mixture that’s a suit of protection. Maybe not the best but do you think it would be fairly protective?

    That’s actually my phase 2 PPE plans for when or if the illness gets serious.

    During the beginning phase (phase 1) of caring for someone I’ll wear one of my paper isolation gowns. That’s when they aren’t that sick and aren’t coughing excessively or having sweats or diarrhea.

    That is when there isn’t much bodily fluids being broadcasted into the room. I figure I should be able to reuse the paper gowns a few times, by removing them and sanitizing them with lysol and letting them air dry in the bathroom.

    Hopefully the person I’ll need to care for will be among the 80% that gets mild symptoms.

    If it turns to the worse, then I’ll go to the heavier plastic rain suit and when removing it, will do like you said, put it into a bleach bath for half an hour then hang it to dry.

    Honestly I figure both my sister and I will get it. Hopefully she gets it first and she will learn from the way I do PPE, then do it herself when I’m sick.

    Not sure what I can do for my mother, other than recommend to stock up on food and supplies then self quarantine. She’s in a whole ‘nother state, six hours by car.

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  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 11:50pm

    Reply to #101
    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 308

    Slow cooker as stop-gap sanitizer

    I figure that in a pinch, my slow cooker could do duty as a heat sanitizer for suspect, non-meltable items that are small enough to fit. The high setting on mine is about 180 F., so set the item(s) in (without water) and let things bake for a few hours.

    It could be plugged in outside so suspect items would not need to come in to the house until they’d been treated.

    … I think I’ve just talked myself into getting a second slow cooker!

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  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 6:21am

    Reply to #100

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    1+

    South Korea says coronavirus cases more than double, total now 433

    South Korea says coronavirus cases more than double, total now 433

    SEOUL (Reuters) – South Korea said on Saturday that the number of people infected with the coronavirus in the country had more than doubled to 433.

    Korea’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 142 new cases at a morning briefing and another 87 in the afternoon. It had reported 204 cases on Friday.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-southkorea-cases/south-korea-says-coronavirus-cases-more-than-double-total-now-433-idUSKCN20G0BK

    ==================================

    30-year Treasury bond yield breaks to all-time low as coronavirus fears lift havens

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/30-year-treasury-bond-yield-breaks-to-all-time-low-as-coronavirus-fears-lift-havens-2020-02-21

    ==========================

     

     

    The coronavirus may be ‘Disease X’ health experts warned about

    “Whether it will be contained or not, this outbreak is rapidly becoming the first true pandemic challenge that fits the disease X category,” Marion Koopmans, head of viroscience at Erasmus University Medical Center in Rotterdam, and a member of the WHO’s emergency committee, wrote Wednesday in the journal Cell.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/22/covid-19-may-be-the-disease-x-the-health-agency-warned-about/amp/

    =============================

    New coronavirus cases in Iran, Italy fuel concerns the disease cannot be contained

    Localized outbreaks of the new coronavirus outside of China are fueling concerns among infectious disease experts and scientists that the virus is spreading too quickly and may be past the point of containment. Health officials are warning the public to prepare for a potential global pandemic.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/new-coronavirus-cases-in-iran-italy-fuel-concerns-disease-cannot-be-contained.html

    ====================================

    Iran now says 5 dead out of 28 infected with new coronavirus

    Elsewhere in the region, Saudi Arabia announced that citizens and residents of the kingdom are not permitted to travel to Iran following the spread of the virus there. Anyone previously in Iran will only be permitted entry to the country after the 14-day incubation period of the virus has passed.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/iran-reports-death-10-cases-coronavirus-69141354

    =============================

     

     

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  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 6:24am

    #109

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    1+

    Untraceable coronavirus cells emerge in three countries amid pandemic

    Untraceable coronavirus cells emerge in three countries amid pandemic

    Untraceable coronavirus cells have emerged in three countries — and health officials say the elusive strands could be the first sign that the virus is spreading at an uncontrollable pace.

    Doctors are unable to identify the source of coronavirus clusters in South Korea, Singapore and Iran, the World Health Organization said Saturday, urging a stricter approach to containing the virus.

    “A number of spot fires occurring around the world is a sign that things are ticking along, and what we are going to have here is probably a pandemic,” said Ian Mackay, a researcher at Australia’s University of Queensland.

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/untraceable-coronavirus-cells-emerge-in-three-countries-amid-pandemic/

    ========================

    Health experts warn life-saving coronavirus vaccine still years away

    “Going into a Phase 1 trial does not mean you have a vaccine,” Fauci said. “It means you have taken the first step towards the vaccine, which by anybody’s calculation is going to be at least a year to a year and a half at best, and that is if we proceed under the emergency authorization of the regulatory agencies.”

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-experts-warn-life-saving-coronavirus-vaccine-years/story?id=69032902

    =========================

    TOWNS IN ITALY UNDER LOCKDOWN AS CORONAVIRUS CASES SURGE IN SOUTHERN EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST

    A silent panic befell northeastern Italy during the final weekend of carnival. Bars, schools, restaurants, and other public spaces in 10 towns here closed, with more expected to follow, after the region reported its first two deaths from the new coronavirus. From Milan to Venice, villages and communities resembled ghost towns.

    https://www.newsweek.com/italy-coronavirus-iran-lebanon-israel-1488564

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  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 7:18am

    #110

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    Mortality & Cognitive Dissonance

    The chart below leads me to believe that I have a very good chance of surviving the virus with only mild discomfort and inconvenience. And even better, my kids and grand-kids have a less than zero chance of dying.  Really?

    So last night I went out to dinner, a nice Japanese restaurant and then went to see the musical Chicago.  My husband and I could quarantine ourselves but that seems pointless because if the kids or grandkids get sick I am there to do anything and everything to keep them alive.

    And Chris is right about American healthcare, we have a $2000 insurance deductible per person so I won’t be going to the Dr. until I am on deaths door, if then even. But I am healthy. Recently, I talked to an 83 year old lady who fell on the ice and refused an ambulance ride to the hospital because of cost and drove herself instead. Turned out she broke her neck. But I digress.

    Anyway, if I hang my hat on the 3.6% fatality rate reflected below, it’s whistle a happy tune time. A 1.3% or, less than zero, that sounds wonderful too.  And yet……. I read the other threads and…. dam there is that cognitive dissonance.  What to believe.  On a scale of 1 to 10 how apprehensive should we be? Looking at the chart below does your answer change?

    COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

    Age                                                   Fatality Rate
    80+                                               14.8%
    70-79 years old                         8.0%
    60-69 years old                         3.6%
    50-59 years old                         1.3%
    40-49 years old                         0.4%
    30-39 years old                         0.2%
    20-29 years old                         0.2%
    10-19 years old                         0.2%
    0-9 years old                             no fatalities

    How about that 0.4%?  Can we trust this info?

    Hmmm, what to think.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 7:29am

    #111

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    1+

    Coronavirus live updates: IMF lowers global growth forecast, warns of ‘more dire scenarios’

    7:00 am: IMF says virus outbreak will slow global growth

    The International Monetary Fund (IMF) said on Saturday that the virus will likely cut off 0.1% from global growth, and drag down growth for China’s economy to 5.6%, which is 0.4% lower from its January outlook.

    “But we are also looking at more dire scenarios where the spread of the virus continues for longer and more globally, and the growth consequences are more protracted,” said International Monetary Fund Managing Director Kristalina Georgieva at the G20 Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors Meeting.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/22/coronavirus-live-updates-imf-lowers-global-growth-forecast.html

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  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 9:26am

    Reply to #110

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 131

    3+

    Mortality - can you trust those stats?

    Not only can’t we trust existing stats, now that the authorities conspired to stop the accurate tracking of cruise cases by sending infected people out, we probably can’t use the recovery stats or long-term reinfection stats because it’s no longer a closed system.

    the number that concerns me most is:
    0-9 years old        no fatalities

    Oh really?  Does China simply not admit sick kids to their hospitals?  If they had very sick kids in hospitals in Dec and Jan, then there should be sick children who got Covid as a secondary infection from the hospitals.  They should be more susceptible than even tired medical staff, especially if their underlying condition has any respiratory impairment.

    So I suspect zero deaths of kids from Covid means dead from identified Covid.  The dead kids were not tested and are listed as dying from the underlying condition.    At least early on, parents might not have been aware that their child had the virus if they were already potentially terminal.

    So let’s all manage that Cognitive Dissonance.  I suspect the underlying idea that the younger and healthier are relatively low risk for serious complications and death is correct for the first pass.  Of course the question of reinfection is a big unknown that may be impossible to track because authorities are deliberately covering up actual figures.

    I wonder if the UK could get survivors to voluntarily disclose and track their health for the next few months.

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  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 9:58am

    #112

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    1+

    Immunologist: We are clearly at the brink of a pandemic (CNN Video)

    https://www.citizentribune.com/lifestyles/health/immunologist-we-are-clearly-at-the-brink-of-a-pandemic/video_8660ee9b-2991-5ccd-bbf7-342ade6068c2.html

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  • Sun, Feb 23, 2020 - 11:32pm

    Reply to #101
    LeftCoaster

    LeftCoaster

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 16

    1+

    Re: Rainssuits for PPE

    Thank you Sparky for posting the link with very specific steps to take to remove the PPE. After seeing that, I think I am F’d.     Even though I am a nurse & understand the steps to take, they are so detailed, I do not think I will be able to do that, in my home.                  My partner thinks I am over reacting & refuses to learn anything about how to prepare. (Even the basics of removing shoes & washing hand asap upon returning home. )  I have stocked up on food, meds, TP, needed paper & cleaning products and plan on quarantining at home.  If my partner gets sick, which I believe he will, I am not sure how much care I can give him & still stay safe.    It sure would be a whole lot easier, if we were both learning & preparing.  This has been a lot of work for one person to do, in 2 weeks time.    Unfortunately I have not lived in my current local long enough to know other people. Crap.  I will try to stop positive and do the best I can. At least I have this online community for great info & the moral support needed, at times.  Thank you to everyone.

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  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 3:18am

    Reply to #101
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 586

    LeftCoaster, re: PPE and thoughts on prepping

    LeftCoaster, LoL, I can appreciate your “I’m f*d” situational assessment as I’ve been there often, and will probably be there frequently in the future. Once you become “aware,” its daunting to see all the potential gaps in your preps and even more difficult if you feel you lack support and are running out of time. Still, it sounds like you’re ahead of most people in your preps, knowledge and skills. Being a nurse, you have life-saving knowledge and skills that most people don’t have (like me!) and so you will be quickly welcomed into any local community/prep group of your choice in a real SHTF situation.

    Personally, I think we have at least 3-4 weeks before the effects of this crisis start to become apparent to the general public, and even then, the situation will unfold unevenly geographically and economically (e.g. more pronounced shortages in key supplies). So you still have time to prepare in that regard. Just assess and prioritize where you are most vulnerable and try to plug that/those gap(s) the best you can as time and resources allow. Like you, I feel I still have many gaps to plug, but I’ve made considerable progress over time.

    In terms of minimizing coronavirus exposure and preventing infection: stay strong and you keep doing what you know is appropriate regardless of whether your partner is on board. While this unfairly places the burden of mitigation primarily on you initially, you’ll still improve both your chances, and he may learn by “osmosis”and may even come around once the impacts of pandemic spread become more obvious.

    Depending on his and/or your age (older adult?)  and health status (any co-morbidities such as diabetes?) you may want to let him know that, although he may feel you’re over reacting, these precautions  however inconvenient may keep either or both of you from being sick, hospitalized or in the ICU for weeks on end possibly resulting in compromised health upon “recovery” or death.  You’re a nurse, so you’ve had a front row seat on what that actually entails (but don’t let it paralyze you!) so you are speaking from an informed perspective. You could throw in some stats from Chris’ last summary slide from his videos to bolster your argument (e.g., men/older men at greater risk, % hospitalized/serious condition) if you feel that might be effective.  There’s also a PP podcast from a few months ago about “How to have difficult conversations” that you may find helpful.

    In addition to any supplements you take, you could start slipping more nutrients and natural immune-boosting foods into your cooking such as garlic and onions, turmeric, cinnamon, fruits and vegetables, and dairy products (if you consume them) with added vitamin d or probiotics such as milk, yogurts, or ice cream.

    Can you do the PPE donning and doffing in a mud room, on a porch or in the back yard, away from your main living space? I have an inexpensive pop-up changing room that I plan to use with an outdoor shower (a tiki shower and a camp solar shower bag with sprayer) if needed. The bleach solution decontamination will be difficult as I’ll probably be doing that solo as well. I plan to use a dedicated garden sprayer and the camp solar shower for that purpose, remove and disinfect the PPE, then move to the clean water tiki shower. I’m not to that point yet, but I do need to test it out soon.

    So far, I’m severely limiting my travels and exposures, wearing clear gloves and masks when in stores (“I’m just getting over a cold.”), not using public rest rooms, not eating out or eating prepared foods, using hand sanitizer and wipes, washing hands constantly and face as needed, changing clothes and leaving outerwear away from my living area. Not yet wearing goggles out and about. I’ll ramp-up as indicators suggest that things are getting worse. I have a room and supplies that can be mobilized for a sick room, but they’re not ready yet and I need more duct tape. (Can never have enough duct tape!!)

    I have to practice my donning and doffing of PPE as well. It is a challenge, for sure. I need to get more masks, goggles, Tyvak and rain suits, and buckets as I’m preparing for family that won’t.  While probably overkill, I have heavy duty military surplus Chemical Nuclear Biological (CBN) suits that I bought from MREdepot for me and each of my adult children soon after the Fukashima nuclear (ongoing) disaster. Boy, did I get a lot of ridicule and flak for that! But, they still have them and one even tried his on. In a pinch, they know they are better prepared and that however “over reactive” I may be, they know I love them and am looking out for their well-being.

    IMO, prepping is learning to live with an imperfect, never-ending process of growth and improvement, which builds independence, resilience and gives peace of mind. So hang in there! You’re doing great with your prepping and you and your partner will be all the better for it.

    PS:  I’m a “LeftCoaster” too.  🙂

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