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    From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sun, May 26, 2019 - 5:18pm

    #
    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 186

    1+

    Climate disintegration: excellent term

    wfoord has provided a great insight into what’s going on climatically: not climate change, although change it is, but climate disintegration. The atmosphere is a fluid dynamic system and very complex, capable of considerable instability. Not good for we little creatures living at the bottom of this gaseous ocean.

    It will no doubt re-integrate and re-stabilise into some new arrangement which owing to the physics should greatly resemble the old, but the transition from one state to the other will make for, er, interesting times.

    I don’t know if this video has already been suggested to the PP people, but it’s worth looking at more than once. In fact, this fellow, Just Have A Think, has a lot of engaging explanatory videos.

     

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  • From: Daily Digest 5/25 – Malaria back with a vengeance in crisis-hit Venezuela, Americans’ Life Savings Disappear
  • Sun, May 26, 2019 - 3:56pm

    #
    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 186

    Beijing is building hundreds of airports as millions of Chinese take to the skies

    Little wonder that BAU opinion in Australia is that it’s totally pointless for us to do anything to reduce our carbon emissions, including exporting megatons of coal, while the likes of China go on a massive carbon spending spree. We might as well cash in now. Oh, and climate change is not real, got that? And don’t let the doomsayers spoil your revenue streams and dreams.

    I understand that commercial aviation is one of the major injectors of CO2 into the atmosphere and at high altitudes, precisely where it does the most harm. If so, better cash in as early as possible!

    This all makes good business sense. Or something.

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  • From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sun, May 26, 2019 - 7:21am

    Reply to #
    Steveisbecomingoverwhelmed

    Steveisbecomingoverwhelmed

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    Posts: 4

    4+

    Economy is just one leg of the three legged chair.

    Let’s not forget this economic situation is not occurring in a vacuum.  The three legs of the chair are Economy, Environment and Energy.  For example, as temperatures increase, the ice caps disappear and the oceans rise.  Take a look at the profile of lands that hold moisture in this scenario.  Will fertile irrigable farmland decrease in value just because the economic bubble popped?  And what of the additional impact of peak oil?  It’s difficult to imagine how this scenario will ultimately ripple out.  But, it’s best to develop a positive attitude, learn what you can offer to others and to yourself and try to become a contributing part of a concerned community.

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  • From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 5:06pm

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    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 461

    6+

    Suffering is Optional?

    I could wax philosophical, but I’ll just cut to the chase.  There is going to be a boat load of suffering when this experiment fails.

    A very few people might be mentally prepared and perhaps a few others will guess right and get the timing right, but those are going to be the exceptions, not the rule.

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  • From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 4:34pm

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    wfoord@bigpond.net.au

    [email protected]

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    we should start using the term “climate desintegration” instead of “climate change”. the 2nd one is too moderate

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  • From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 4:14pm

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    wfoord@bigpond.net.au

    [email protected]

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    the central banks are delaying the day we have to look at ourselves.

    how can the markets go down now in the way that they should?. we’ve got this coordinated intervention from the central banks eg/ “collusion” by nomi prins. if they did go down dramatically it would be a good thing, because many delusions would be shattered and then we may see things more clearly , like climate disintegration. in fact we should change the terminology from climate change to climate disintegration, its closer to sending the correct message, thank you chris

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  • From: They’ve Stolen Our Future!
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 3:31pm

    Reply to #

    cmartenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4479

    6+

    Re: Interesting Shift

     I’m not sure I agree with your assessment that civilization is facing imminent collapse – there’s still a fair amount of inertia in the system, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we muddled along for another 20 or 30 years before everything goes off the rails

    My timing is not known because I specifically don’t and have never put out a time frame for when a collapse event will occur.  I have said that the next twenty years will be completely unlike the past twenty years.

    I have also said that collapse is a process, not an event, and that it’s actually already underway.  If you shared my views on insects alone, and the deeply unwise practice of wiping out the bottom of the food chain, you’d agree with me that collapse is already underway.

    But let’s assume that I agreed with your assessment of 20 to 30 more years before things really begin to go off the rails.  Even with that timing I’d say that’s “imminent” because of the vast lead times required to do anything about anything at scale.

    If you said “we have 30- years to fix the energy infrastructure to move 100% away from fossil fuels” I would respond “we’re scroomed then, there isn’t enough time.”

    Sorry to say, I haven’t really changed my view of the utility of climate change as a useful human organizing principle and change agent.  It remains distant, statistical, abstract, something about which any one individual has practicality zero agency, and easily ‘disproven’ by people’s local weather experiences.

    Worse, the face we’d have to attach to it is the one in the mirror.

    I noted the students striking all over Europe again last weekend and felt really good about that.  At the same time I wondered how many of them were willing to give up cheap clothes made half way around the world, their cell phones, or any of a thousand other expressions of “cheap and easy” that fossil fuels deliver to them personally.

    I bet a fair lot of them would more easily and readily give up creature comforts than their elders, but still it would be a small number I’d bet.

    Yet that’s what has to happen – we have to change our lifestyles and adjust our expectations towards a world without this economic ‘growth’ we’re all so fond of.

    That means changing the narrative.  If climate change proves to be the narrative that finally wakes people up and moves them to action, I will be glad to have been in the wrong about that.

    In the meantime, I’ll continue to promote people making individual changes to their lives that build greater resilience, knowing that these are the same steps that are necessary to create a world worth inheriting whether one’s focus is climate change, The Everything Bubble, or the looming energy predicament.

    I’m thoroughly agnostic.  Whatever works best and fastest.  We really don’t have a lot of time.

    20 – 30 years is ridiculously imminent given the challenges and numbers of people involved.

     

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  • From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 3:24pm

    #
    obizzozero

    obizzozero

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    Joined: Jan 20 2018

    Posts: 2

    I then to agree with David

    First of all, I want to thank the group for an outstanding discussion.

    I tend to agree with David Stockman. If there is a large market downturn, everything will go down including EM. Just like in 2008, the only place to hide will be in US treasuries. Everything else will go down, including precious metals, energy, farm land, etc.

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  • From: Pain Is Inevitable; But Suffering Is Optional.
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 2:52pm

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    Rodster

    Rodster

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    Posts: 17

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    OK, i'll Play

    I’ll go with Lance Armstrong

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  • From: They’ve Stolen Our Future!
  • Sat, May 25, 2019 - 1:14pm

    #
    t.tanner

    t.tanner

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    Posts: 14

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    Interesting shift

    Chris, it’s been a long, long time since I’ve engaged on Peak Prosperity, in large part because I felt like you were ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla in the room by steering the site away from a realistic discussion on climate change.  I just looked at an old e-mail of yours, from 2011, where you explained that it simply didn’t make sense to discuss climate.  I’d like to thank you for shifting to a much more proactive position.  I’m not sure I agree with your assessment that civilization is facing imminent collapse – there’s still a fair amount of inertia in the system, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we muddled along for another 20 or 30 years before everything goes off the rails – but there’s absolutely no doubt that risk of collapse is serious and getting worse by the day.  In any case, thanks for evolving your stance to reflect the reality of the situation.

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