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    censorship out of control

    Censorship Is Out Of Control!

    And it's making things worse
    by Chris Martenson

    Friday, October 16, 2020, 2:13 AM

The social atmosphere in the US is increasing bitter and divided.  Tempers are fraying, and many are wondering what to do.

Social media – which I am increasingly going to be calling anti-social media for a host of reasons – is a major cause of those divisions.

Rightfully, social media has concluded that its own platforms are contributing.  Wrongfully, they’ve decided the issue rests with bad or wrong ideas that they are now in the process of scrubbing from their platforms.

One thing has led to another and now they are forcefully deciding what’s good medicine which, predictably, is always in alignment with pharmaceutical companies and their profit motives.

They are deciding which investigative articles can be shown and which are ‘wrong.’  This week Twitter even went so far as to prevent a government website from displaying describing it as ‘potentially unsafe’ by which they mean ‘went against our fervent desire to see Joe Biden elected.’

Having good, curated information is a treat.  But assuming that you know which is good and which is maliciously bad?  All the way to the point that you’re shadow banning people like myself who are sharing honest-to-goodness scientific research papers? Well, now you’re out of control.

Accordingly, to balance the universe, I went out of control in this video and even took to a swear-filled rant…all tastefully bleeped out of course (because self-censorship is the best censorship!)

But don’t worry there’s a funny cat video to balance that all out.

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113 Comments

  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 2:49am

    #1
    Prep101

    Prep101

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 41

    14

    Digital resilency: Alternatives for google & How to save the internet from censorship

    I couldn't agree more. Censorship by the Big Tech companies is indeed out of control. And like Chris said, you have to get resilient.

    That includes DIGITAL resiliency:

    "So You've Decided To Boycott Google...":
    https://www.corbettreport.com/so-youve-decided-to-boycott-google/
    (Good information on alternatives for google. Also some useful information in the comment-section)

    And more recent:

    "How to Save the Library":
    https://www.corbettreport.com/how-to-save-the-library-questions-for-corbett-069/
    (How to save the modern day burning of the 'Library of Alexanderia', or in other words how to save the internet from censorship)

     

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 3:29am

    #2
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 261

    17

    How is this not Chinese 'Social Credit Score' coercion?

    This morning my brother sent me this email he received from the CEO of Gab, an alternative social media platform:

    The Digital Civil War is Here, Which Side Are You On?

    Today was the biggest day in Gab’s history. For over four years we have been warning about Big Tech’s unchecked control and abuse of power over the flow of information, news, and communication online.

    We have been building a digital Noah’s Ark for this very moment. A place where free speech is preserved and the free flow of information is protected for all people. Gab’s traffic, new user growth, and site activity all reached record levels this week.

    Today started with Youtube banning dozens of top Conservative channels.

    Then Twitter continued banning people who posted the Hunter Biden story.

    Then the Senate Judiciary Committee Announced That They Will Subpoena Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey over NY Post Censorship.

    Then Wikipedia Editors Censored the Hunter Biden Bombshell, and called the New York Post an ‘Unreliable’ Source.

    Then Twitter Locked the Trump Campaign Account Less Than 3 Weeks Before Presidential Election.

    Then Jim Jordan Posted the Hunter Biden-Burisma Story on a federal government website after Twitter Censors House Judiciary GOP, at which point the link was promptly censored by Twitter.

    Then Twitter itself shut down completely.

    All the while, Gab’s growth exploded.

    Gab is the only place left on the internet that does not censor on behalf of the Google and Apple app stores to keep our app on their platforms. We do not answer to Apple. We do not answer to Google. We do not answer to Twitter. We do not answer to activist groups, big corporate sponsors, or the mainstream media.

    We answer to you, The People.

    On Gab you are not the product being sold. You are a valued member of our community and if you receive value from Gab and want to support our mission we hope that you’ll consider becoming one of our customers. Our highest honor is earning your business and support by providing a great service where information flows freely and people aren’t afraid to speak their minds.

    Please keep our team and our community in your prayers. Make no mistake about it, the digital civil war has only just begun. It’s the oligarchs of Silicon Valley, the little tyrants who bend over backwards for their Communist Chinese Party masters, against We The People.

    This is a spiritual war.

    There is a very clear dichotomy between good and pure evil.

    The line in the sand has been drawn.

    What we need to remember is that we have God and Truth on our side.

    United in faith, we can and will accomplish anything together.

    The question is: which side are you on?

    Andrew Torba
    CEO, Gab.com
    October 15th, 2020
    Jesus is King

    (source)

    Apparently, Gab has not only been deplatformed by other social media, but blocked by Paypal and Visa, too.

    Snarky Aside: That means they've turned to echecks, snail mail checks, and Bitcoin as funding mechanisms by which people who chose to subscribe to their Pro side can pay. This is a use case for Bitcoin that is pretty well known in many repressive regime countries. We just might discover its usefulness more broadly here in the good old Land of the Free.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 3:43am

    #3
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    10

    hahahahahah!!!

    LMAO at Chris' rant!  Yes, we all need to laugh.

    As for the censorship, man does it suck.  It is very scary because it's such a formidable power.  I just hate it.  I can't imagine who are these people?  Who do they think they are?

    As for our modern day media ills, I got a keen bird's eye view of the media with Matt Taibbi giving a lecture to a class of aspiring journalists.  He just wrote a book called Hate, Inc., which was the platform for the lecture,  and in this lecture he dives into the history  of media, and details how media has devolved over time.  Many factors are at play, but commercial interests play a major role.  In this lecture, Taibbi does not mention one event that profoundly impacted the media and that was the deregulation of the FCC under the Clinton Administration.  However, I learned that the Reagan Administration began the deregulation of news media.  A series of events have gotten us to our present day news media clusterfuck.  The censorship makes everything ten times worse.

    Matt Taibbi would be a great guest to have right now on PP.

    Ya'll can watch his lecture here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG1qJeDI9Ok

     

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 3:58am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    3

    Spiritual Solution

    I agree with Mr. Torba, only a spiritual solution will save us.  There are no economic, monetary, or political solutions.  DC is a mirror of the nation as a whole and this nation is not well.  That may well be the reason for this God awful planetary line up.  When people suffer, many turn to prayer, self reflection, charitable works, philosophy, etc.  Suffering forces people to re-prioritize.

    Unfortunately suffering can also  spawn the devil in people.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 3:59am

    #5

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 179

    8

    Information Resilience

    Maybe we need a new form of resilience, "Information Resilience".  Basically how reliable are you information sources?  Are they real people you know and trust?  How deep and wide are those networks?  Are they first hand sources of information?  What are their biases and agendas?

    Simply without good information we are likely to make poor and even harmful desiscions.

    -Travis

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 4:19am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    7

    Sources of Information

    Hello  Travis!  Happy  to share some of my sources of information, a lot of these guys are market guys, I don't agree with all of these people on every point but I'm interested to hear what they have to say:  Michael Pentos, John Robino, EB White, Catherine Austin Fitts, Gail Twerberg/ourfiniteworld.com, Lynnette Zang, Rick Rule, Charles Nenner, Evon Von Greyerz, RFK, Jr/Children's Defense Fund, Alliance for Natural Health, ZeroHedge, the Misis Institute, Global Research, Matt Taibbi, Jimmy Dore, Whitney Webb, Seymore Hirsch, Glen Greenwald, The Hill Rising, Greg Mannarino, Craig Hemke, Charles Hugh Smith, Chris Hedges, Chris Martenson(!), Veritas Project, the Greyzone, Craig Murray, Gerald Celente, Valuetainment, George Gammon, USAwatchdog.com (for the guest line up),  government websites....

    I also watch nature shows which have a tendency to illustrate the nature of things: one living entity is food for another -  all the way up the food chain where the greatest wealth transfer of all time is taking place.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 5:08am

    #7

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 179

    2

    Broken by design

    What if this system of information flow is unworkable?

    We have a number of factors.

    • The speed of information. If I release a unit of information, what is the rate of persons per unit of time that learn the information? (This factor is probably higher then ever in all history)
    • How fast and well can people process the information in their own heads? How trustworthy is it? Is it good/bad info? Is it biased? Questions? (This is probably mostly the same throughout human history. Probably depends on education and curiosity levels)
    • Quality of the information. We live in a world where the next news stoy makes the next dollar. The time it takes to fully reseach the topic is often just too expensive. ( we probably have a lot more low quality information)
    • The speed to quality ratio. Low quality information can simply travel much fast in the current system.
    • Number of information sources ( Simply population keeps going up, soures go up )
    • Biased news ( people always have done that )
    • Knowledge foundations and biases. Biases are simply cognitive short cuts. It's either have biases or get a bigger brain. So I guess we are stuck with biases. Knowledge foundation, just watch the Crash Course and you will have a new knowledge foundation. Don't watch the crash course you have a different foundation. ( so many people these days are separated from a world were real thing matter any more. Their knowledge foundations reflect that )
    • The ONLY way to counter bad information is with good information.  (Wait, didn't we just say that bad information is a lot easier and faster then good information)

    In past eras information had to spread by word of mouth, or the town paper only released once a week, or maybe per day. But people had time to digest the information.  A common knowledge state, or informational equilibrium could be reached.

    Now we are constantly flooded with new information before the old information can be processed. It's like a super massive and highly connected neural network with flows of information that constantly explode and flood over each other.  The are simply too many neurons and too many connections.  Low quality information has the complete advantage.  The system broken by design.

    Solutions (maybe)

    • We need about 4-5 billion people to self remove from the population.
    • Go back to a world where information was much slower.  What if we banned 24/7 new networks?  You would only release news between 6-8am and 6-8pm.  (Ya, that would fly like a lead balloon)
    • Chris and Adam - We need you both to produce enough good information to overcome the bad information.  I'm thinking about a 100 new articles per day with both morning and evening audio/video news updates, including weekends and holidays.

    So I guess we need Chris and Adam to get cracking, or else we are all doomed!!  LOL

    -Travis

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 5:10am

    #8
    MQ

    MQ

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    Posts: 123

    0

    The rest of the story???

    https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-media-misinformation-social-media-elections-b7a4551572d3893ec0785df22c0f41a8?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AP%20Morning%20Wire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 6:06am

    #9

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    11

    I fear y’all are waaay too optimistic

    Granted, the spot in the road where we currently are is bad, bad, bad (and getting worse). But if all you do is look at where we’re at today, you won’t take a sober glance down the road a few months or years. Look ahead. Do you not see how all the worst possible outcomes are now within easy reach from where we are now: civil war, WWIII, complete totalitarian takeover of society, total economic collapse leading to a totalitarian economic reset that benefits only the oligarchs and their servants but kills or enslaves everyone else? If you can’t see these imminent possibilities on your own, there is plenty of open source information out there in which these developments are being discussed approvingly and plans made that will lead to these outcomes.

    In my mind, resilience must definitely include plans and preparations for the now possible worst outcomes. Are you ready for:

    1. A breakdown in law and order for a time in which crimes and violence are mostly uncontrolled by police and the criminal justice system. You’ll be left on your own to cope with the worst impulses of the worst people and the desperate actions of “normal” people who commit unspeakable acts just to survive.

    2. Organized political violence by government forces and anti-government militias of various stripes battling them for control and revenge.
    3. A chaotic breakdown in the money system for navigating every day life, then more chaos as a variety of competing “solutions” are proposed, and finally a money system reset imposed by force that only benefits the banks and billionaires.

    4. WWIII which will spare no country.

    “Happy Hunger Games! And may the odds be ever in your favor.”

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 7:13am

    Mary59

    Mary59

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 109

    4

    No Deep Contextual Understanding - No Deep Resilience

    Taking small steps towards resilience is always positive.  At the same time and if one is looking towards the sustainability of said achieved goal of resilience then one needs to have an understanding of what possible things lie in the future.

    As a career strategic planner and programme/project designer, I can say that before planning anything, before setting goals and results,  one need to first gain a VERY good understanding of the context preferably looking at things through an integral lense, and look at the trends, past and present and as is possible, extrapolate models into the future if those trends remain true.  To me, none of us on PP know what is really going on and thus I created the new forum for looking at the question of Who is/are the Ultimate Decision Maker/s on Planet Earth.  What is more important than that to understanding the present and extrapolating into the future?

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:00am

    #11
    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    11

    Mike from Jersey said:

    It is sad to say, but Chris' article is right  on target.

    I have travelled internationally more than most. I also have family and friends living in other nations and in the so-called third world. And I have - on occasion - been relatively close to positions of political and economic power. Over several decades of experience, I have discovered that the American media is little more than a very large disinformation platform.

    Now, social media is following right along that same path.

    In the past when I told other Americans things that I knew to be true - but which ran counter to established narratives - many have looked at me as if I was simply crazy. But increasingly Americans are discovering - based upon their own knowledge and experience - that some of the established narratives that they are being fed are pure fiction. Some of these people are generalizing - accurately - that most of the established narrative is pure fiction.

    The people in power don't seem to understand that this is an increasingly dangerous situation. As conditions visibly deteriorate, a nation simply cannot be held together by narratives which are no longer believed.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:02am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    1

    Yes and No

    Hello thc0655!  No matter what the outcome, most everyone will have unique experiences.  Even in the dystopia you describe, some people will suffer miserably, some will come out unscathed, some will die, some will kill, there will be all manner of realities out there.

    Don't underestimate that for as much as this scenario will spawn really bad actors,  it will also ignite people who rise above the mayhem and become protectors or saviors of sorts, and everything in between.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:03am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 261

    12

    Reverse approach

    @Mary59

    With respect, I've taken the opposite tack. Since no one can know what from among the myriad possibilities that our human imaginations can conjure will actually materialize, a resilient lifestyle is the best preparation. The emphasis needs to be on "lifestyle." We need resilient lives, which requires a lot more production and a lot less consumption. It doesn't work to purchase one's lifestyle off of shelves; rather, we need to learn how to build our own lifestyles by our own hands.

    Also it's a good idea to try to locate one's ark out of the main paths of egress from the metropolises.

    I think in terms of "100 Year Solution" and "30 Year Solution." The 100 Year Solution is the baseline. It does not depend on outside energy, markets, or exotic replacement parts. On top of that I've layered what I call 30 Year Solutions - those are technology upgrades on basic hand-powered processes that are labor saving and life quality enhancing for as long as they can be kept operating. So, for example, my 100 Year Solution for heat and cooking are wood stoves and hand tools for felling and processing trees. My 30 Year add-on includes oil heat, chainsaws, and a gas-powered log splitter. (I'm on the verge of adding solar, too.)

    I shared my 12-point program outline for developing a resilient lifestyle once before. I'll repeat it here. Each point is a metric, each metric has specific criteria to indicate levels of accomplishment. (Really, this is just my way of codifying the process of rediscovering the way our ancestors lived right up until WWII.)

    1. Own property free and clear (if you don't have a mortgage the banks can't take your land)

    2. Reduce legible income as much as possible (Socialists and populists take from those who appear to have "excess" to give to those who appear to "need more." Choose on which side of the ledger you want your name to appear and take legal steps to make it so)

    3. Get fit and healthy (both are essential to a self-made life)

    4. Produce as much of your annual food as possible (if you're not dependent on the supply chain you won't go hungry)

    5. Produce extra annual food to sell or trade to pay food expenses (since you can't grow everything, be in a position to trade with others who can't grow everything)

    6. Start a food forest (it's a 'plan B' perennial food source for those times when nature doesn't cooperate or some official or unofficial brigand takes your annual crop)

    7. Preserve food without refrigeration (electricity is not guaranteed)

    8. Invest in infrastructure, not stocks (land and equipment are true wealth; stocks, bonds, and bank accounts can disappear in many ways)

    9. Build community (strong local networks are true security)

    10. Prepare for self-protection with and without guns (guns are equalizers, but might not always be available; be prepared)

    11. Prepare for hunting with and without guns (learn to hunt; keep in mind guns might not always be available, or might not work when the larder's empty; learn to trap)

    12. Build a paper-based resource library (the internet might not always be on so essential resource materials and how-to books need to be in paper; cultivate books showing old ways; cultivate a reading library of literature, politics, philosophy, and economics because "controversial" books and ideas might not always be accessible)

    Here's an excellent resource library for old ways of doing most anything. The curator has simply digitized out-of-copyright textbooks and manuals. You can download and print them for yourself: http://www.survivorlibrary.com/

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:11am

    #14
    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 155

    3

    planfortomorrow said:

    Chris, all of this just nailed down the fact that at least one of the tech giants are going to be broken up to send a huge message to the others. I think if they just send a memo with your rant against The Fed they would see how all of us are fed up on a lot of Bill of Rights issues that are being molested.. You are a high character Man and I like in every direction you are come from.

    Now, to the censors: you are all a bunch of idiotic, ignorant, ass holes that need to just go away. To the CEO's of these soon to be broken up entities: you possibly just drove into your own casket the final nail to get broken up. You made a horrible mistake trying to covey your interpretation of the Bill of Rights when it was obvious your actions tried to elect Joe Biden. The same Biden who's son pimped his way into the Ukraine and China and filled the pockets of his son~ Further, if anyone believer's this wasn't the intent of his father too to use as his front Man, his Boy, to just sell the privilege's to meet with his Dad for a pocketful of cash. Biden,  VP is a crook. Has always been as he is a politician, it's in their DNA. Hunter and his daddy belong in prison, with the Clintons and what the hell, may as well drag Obama too. Of course none of this will happen because when I go to look up the information on all these Folks you decided to sensor relevant materials and that pisses me off. Where will it ever end? Yep, got to break your asses up. You arrogant son's of a bitches. If I'm a Biden supporter I would judge you by your actions because they speak to a world where I can't think for myself or research all the data to make up my own mind. You think you know me better than I do myself. So, get ready, as I think you are going to get some not so flattering push back from the Trump administration because this kind of censorship just helped reelect Trump his second term and is why you tried to sensor the papers right to submit an investigative report. Thank you and dumb move you stupid shits.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:14am

    #15
    SunFarmer

    SunFarmer

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    Joined: Mar 07 2019

    Posts: 9

    2

    The Least Important Election Of Our Lifetimes? Decentralize now or die?

    Don't like to go there when it comes to the Political Reality show, but this illustrated how FUBAR centralization of systems that fail when centralized. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/least-important-election-our-lifetimes

    Another article stated that everything the US Central gov does is anti-constitutional.  Perhaps not far from the Truth, These rocket scientists are hell-bent on centralization of the Internet, while the design of the internet protocol is decentralized.  Maybe that is why IP6 is so slow to catch on. There is an addressable address for every client by default.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:26am

    #16
    SunFarmer

    SunFarmer

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    Joined: Mar 07 2019

    Posts: 9

    2

    Good luck making ----- ---------- about what to --- and what to ---- when you don’t know ---- -- ---

    POSTED WITHOUT COMMENT

    The free speech vs. censorship issue that erupted again this week in the US ------- has ------- ------------- for -------. Markets might not want to admit that fact, but it does. Aren’t market trading decisions supposed to proceed in an environment in which we have full ------------ about what is going on? ------------ not. Good luck making ----- ---------- about what to --- and what to ---- when you don’t know ---- -- ----- --. Meanwhile, here is what we are allowed to talk about. https://www.zerohedge.com/markets-0

     

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:28am

    #17
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 778

    1

    Seems Like

    Somebody or somebodies are getting limbically triggered.

    As Eddie Bernays has pointed out, it is a great way to control people.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:36am

    #18
    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 110

    6

    Censorship vs Objectivity

    A few brief thoughts:

    1. Free speech is the most important political issue. No matter what the issue, we need the freedom to openly discuss things. That makes censorship (hard or soft) a significant danger.

    2. The First Amendment is an obstacle to direct government censorship, but having a corporate proxy censor things is a way around it. I can't prove the government is directing Big Tech to do these things, but it is possible. Maybe Big Tech companies are censoring by their own choice, but maybe they are being intimidated into doing so. Neither is good.

    3. The first victim of censorship is objectivity. Objectivity means using reason to integrate facts to understand the real world. If we block off certain facts from consideration, we are necessarily prohibiting ourselves from looking at reality. We are looking at a selected subset of information, which means any conclusions reached on that basis are not taking into account all the facts.

    HCQ is a perfect example. If doctors are not aware of the evidence that it helps with COVID, they aren't able to give the best possible treatment; scientists can't figure out the best solution; and patients aren't aware of their options. Science should be free of political interference.

    4. "Intellectual resilience" means one's ideas and thinking (content and method) are made stronger through interaction with reality. Living in safe-space echo chambers makes one's ideas weaker: there are no challenges to groupthink allowed; feelings are elevated above truth; etc. And thinking methods deteriorate: we are beholden not to truth and reality, but to consensus and tribal obedience. This can be overt (think ostracism and censorship) but also very subtle.

    If you cherish your thinking ability and ideas, it is imperative to take each idea and test it against reality, over and over. Treating an idea like a fragile snowflake, refusing to consider counterarguments or new evidence, doesn't make the idea stronger.

    In fact, letting one idea be "protected" against criticism corrupts the rest of your thinking. Each idea gets integrated with the rest, so eventually a contradiction appears between this "protected" idea and another idea. So to resolve the conflict, one of the ideas has to change. If one persists in protecting the first one, that means throwing out some other idea.

    This is the way in which censorship is not only politically dangerous, but epistemologically as well.

    Another example is Lysenko in the Soviet Union, which undermined the progress of science.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

    This was politically and economically damaging, but it harmed the minds of scientists as well. Imagine at the point of a gun trying to integrate a false scientific theory with facts in your lab, or with other theories. It can't be done. So consider the consequences to the minds of the scientists, caught in an impossible situation.

    Edit to add:

    5. I also find the condescension behind censorship infuriating. Big Tech or government or the press treat us like fragile little children, to whom the mere exposure of controversial ideas will destroy our fragile little minds. It is absurd and incredibly insulting.

    As other liberty advocates have pointed out: if censorship is necessary for the average person, why are regulators, censors, or other officials exempt? Are there minds so different that they are immune from these alleged ill effects?

    Of course not. It is all about power. They want us to think a certain way, and one way to do that is to control what information we are exposed to.

    6. "Regulation" is not the answer. That just puts government in charge of the censorship. I'm not sure what the ultimate solution is. One good measure is removing section 230 protection in the US. Because they censor, the Big Tech social media companies are effectively publishers, not platforms for public debate. They should not have the benefit of legal protections on that front. Leave them open to lawsuits as a way to balance the power and influence they have over public discourse.

    Another measure would be to consider changes to their patent protections. If they don't allow open discussion of HCQ, for instance, someone else may set up a competing platform for open discussion. The Big Tech company may come after the new forum to shut them down, alleging IP infringement. But how can that be, if the new forum wouldn't even exist were it not for censorship on the Big Tech sites? (I don't know whether there are real cases involving this.)

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 9:13am

    #19
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 778

    6

    Rebel Wisdom

    First and foremost I must give a hat tip to Quercus Bicolor. He posted a video of Daniel Schmachtenberger a week ago in the "Fauci " thread ( that went balls to the wall political) The video was "Sensemaking V"

    That video led me to and down a rabbit hole similar to the one I entered with Bitcoin 9 years ago. I have known since the early 60's about how information is used to control the narrative, and thus control a population. Social Media has now become the primary battleground in the information war. The technology has far outstipped the ability of the average person to combat. To be woke means to recognize manipulation for what it is. If you do not recognize the manipulation you are utterly defenseless.

    Daniel told a story about Trump I found extremely interesting. In the past Presidents would surround themselves with like minded people. They were all on the same page and had the same agenda and outlook. Trump has not done that. (Perhaps that is why there is a high turnover in his admin.) Daniel knows some people who were in the Trump admin. They told him in dealing with a particular issue Trump would have a meeting where there were people who disagreed strongly. He would let them argue their positions and sit silently just listening. This could go on for a couple of hours or more. When it was over he would make a political calculation on what his base would think and get on Twitter. Trump is not a stupid man. He is cunning and knows the power of controlling the narrative. Truth has become the greatest irrelevancy in history. Narrative is where the power lies.

    How to get "woke"? Sensemaking is becoming increasingly more difficult. Maybe the first step is to question everything. Sofistek catches a lot of flak here for that but it is important.

    The following vid is from Rebel Wisdom and is the first in a series on sense making. Once we know how to make sense then the narratives can change. The battle humanity is engaged in is a fundamental war for freedom.

    This is a quote from the first comment under the vid.

    "When you tear out a man's tongue, you don't prove him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkKnOEQlwl4

     

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 9:24am

    stevedaly

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    Nice way of organizing your plan VT.

    Based on what's happening on the west coast did you want to add remediation of wildfire risk.  Are you already in a consistently humid environment?

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 10:19am

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

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    nyhetersverige said:

    Surely no one's using Google anymore? We haven't in nearly ten years. Although TBH DDG is simply not as good for deep scans.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 10:21am

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

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    nyhetersverige said:

    We can see something's  been removed. The trick in the digital age is you can no longer see that.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 10:27am

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

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    nyhetersverige said:

    Or pruned.

    https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-media-misinformation-social-media-elections-b7a4551572d3893ec0785df22c0f41a8

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 11:12am

    #24
    Peggy

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    Peggy said:

    Yeah it's out of control, agreed. Essentially, as a species we aren't mature enough to adapt to handle our intelligence. So what happens to species that can't adapt.Yeah, true spirituality is the answer, but good luck with bringing the majority of humanity to that.Nazi Germany was fueled by misinformation, the 'free flow' of information.We're looking at a collapse of civilization in real time. Perhaps we'll arise from the ashes, maybe not. Interesting article on free speech vs disinformation:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/magazine/free-speech.html

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 11:28am

    RandomMike

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    RandomMike said:

    Living in the present?

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 11:56am

    #26
    EddieLarry

    EddieLarry

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    U.S.A. = The United States of Amazon

    Seemingly, a long time ago, I stated that the pandemic will only work to make the rich richer and the poor,  the non-essentials, poorer.  Well?, so be it.  However, I suggest that the problem is not so much the Fed. reserve but the US Congress.  Only they have the power to tax and regulate the rich and make sure the non-essentials have a decent life.  Well, partisanship has rendered the Congress ineffectual.  Now this ineffectiveness exists because the American people vote it in.  So, we are stuck IMO.  I am just glad that the Fed keeps us out of a massive depression.  I just don’t see the benefit in our own destruction.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 4:34pm

    #27
    westcoastjan

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    LOL Chris!

    I am so glad I waited until Friday night happy hour to watch this! So glad to finally see you drop a few F bombs and show anger Chris - in the appropriate manner that you did. And the cat video - too funny!!

    No question resilience will rule as this Fourth Turn progresses - and it does seem to be picking up steam. The more censorship there is, the more you know you are on the right track!

    More like this please! 🙂

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 4:39pm

    #28

    pinecarr

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    Nice touch!

    I liked the Dating Game music and interlude; nice touch!

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 5:32pm

    JeffTheMover

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    JeffTheMover said:

    How would you suggest searching for a doctor in my area that is willing to use Ivermectin, HCQ, and other encouraging yet politically incorrect treatments for CoVid?

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 5:49pm

    #30

    sofistek

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    WHO Study

    A WHO study, yet to be peer reviewed, found little or no evidence that various drugs helped with hospitalized COVID-19 patients. The drugs were Remdesivir, Hydroxychloroquine, Lopinavir on its own, Interferon plus Lopinavir, Interferon on its own.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 6:15pm

    VeganDB12

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    WHO study

    According to MedCram (a youtube site run by a California ICU doctor) the antivirals were used throughout and late in the illness.  The Math plus doctor says this is a big mistake (Paul Marik of UVMS). The antivirals (hcq and I think Remdesivir and maybe Lopinavir) have to be given early on, not in the late phase of the illness.   So much press for a brand name medicine looking for an indication and so little on the generics and OTC meds.   It is frustrating.  Example:a local TV network had a local doc just recommending vitamin d, vitamin c and fresh fruit and vegetables for mild covid in the spring,  and the network just took his recommendations off the air after one soundbite.  Best advice we were getting and they pulled it.   Now it is the same attitude with long covid, a lot of "we don't know" and so many afraid to do compassionate care out of a fear of being reprimanded.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 6:19pm

    #32
    VeganDB12

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    links to math plus and medcram review of negative remdesivir studies

    for those interested (technical):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy1kdZhXsP8  (Paul Marik discusses Math Plus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUdQpFyF2G8 (Remdesivir may not work-MedCram)

    Don't want to derail, just provide sources for my post

     

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 6:35pm

    #33

    thc0655

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    Farcebook policy

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #34
    Redneck Engineer

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    Echo Chambers vs Town Square

    While not strictly censorship, the echo chambers in the MSM and social media do create the inability to discuss certain topics. For instance, the NY Post recently published emails implicating Hunter Biden for selling access to his father while he was Vice President - a very serious corruption charge.

    At the time of this post:

    CNN.com main page: no mention

    FoxNews.com: top of main page with large accompanying photo

    I know several people who swear by one or the other news source and condemn the other outright along with its viewers. Given the way folks normally self-select their news sources, how are we to have a national discussion about critical topics?

    News services have the right to publish what they see fit, so I don't see this as an issue of censorship. But the self-selection of the audience, and the choice by publishers to feed their audience the news they want to hear, creates a related problem of echo chambers across the country.

    Where is the town square these days? Where is the common area where folks can debate these issues? These echo chambers have torn apart a common base of information for the country. Without that, we can't debate issues. Without debate, we will resolve conflicts with violence.

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 12:53am

    Grover

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    I Miss Some Parts Of Yesteryear

    Redneck Engineer wrote:

    News services have the right to publish what they see fit, so I don't see this as an issue of censorship.

    RE,

    That wasn't the case years ago. Reagan weakened the Fairness in reporting and Clinton killed it outright. It was a bipartisan effort separated by a couple of Administrations.

    I miss the old days when news was given special standing in return for presenting both sides of a story. When they had an editorial, it was duly noted as an editorial. Nowadays, there's no need to identify opinion pieces. Each network builds their base constituency and caters to the whims of that group. Why? It sells more advertising. (Ironically, both sides are selling the same advertising messages.)

    You are correct to say it isn't an issue of censorship. They just preach to their choir with messages that the choir wants to hear without confounding the issue with relevant information opposing what the choir wants to hear. Ironically, both sides have the same strategy. The big problem is that common folks on either side of the divide buy it.

    The news no longer provides a common ground of reporting. Is it any wonder that our self-censored casual observers consider the other side of the political spectrum to be the enemy?

    Grover

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 4:04am

    David Kendrick

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    David Kendrick said:

    Abandoned Chrome browser and my gmail account last week. Moved to Yandex Firefox and duckduckgo

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 4:13am

    David Kendrick

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    David Kendrick said:

    Rather its sacrificing a piece, the 'Biden presidency' was only possible because (a) a lifetime of corruption allowed him and family to use office for profit (b) the previous Obama administration  paid Iran $192 billion hush money for their role in hiding Osama Bin laden, who was not present in Pakistan at the time of the raid but had been switched, and the resulting cover up of the seal team 6 silencing by US stinger shootdown where US funded islamists from Libya who were smuggling arms into Syria were used to execute the hit. Then the US compound there had to be 'erased' and it all came out last week https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/benghazi-bombshell/ with a CIA whistleblower - hence the rapid falling on sword to hide the even worse - bad news.

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 6:16am

    Curt504

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    Curt504 said:

    For others, the alternate to the biased google.com is the unfiltered internet search tool;  duckduckgo.com   I wish they created a shorter domain name!  But..  Even an unfiltered search engine can't level the playing field if the un biased tells both sides or at least tells a side that is getting suppressed;  IF that info is not on the internet in the first place!?!

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 8:03am

    #39
    tbp

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    Mike Adams on the Big Tech election interference/stealing treason

    Mike Adams' interesting take:

    If Biden wins, the election is NULL AND VOID because of Facebook, Twitter, Google and YouTube election interference [October 16, 2020 by: Mike Adams]

    (Natural News) With Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Google now conspiring to censor all the bombshell breaking news about the Hunter Biden / Joe Biden crime family, we can now declare the upcoming election to be null and void if Biden wins.

    Why? Because the elections process of our constitutional republic depends on fair and free elections taking place, which means people must have the freedom to read the news, debate ideas and share ideas without politically motivated interference and censorship from the techno-tyrants, the speech monopolists who decide what you’re allowed to say. The coordinated, malicious blocking of the NY Post investigative journalism stories on Hunter Biden’s emails and Joe Biden’s complicity with Ukraine and China constitute illegal election interference.

    Worse yet, none of the tech companies are backing off their censorship. In fact, they’re doubling down and censoring follow-up stories from the NY Post as well as any other publications that cover the news. Wikipedia has even joined the fray, now condemning the NY Post as an “unreliable source” and using that excuse to blacklist the bombshell story exposing the Biden crime family. And that’s how it works, you see: The tech giants declare all sources they don’t like to be “unreliable” or “unsafe,” and then claim they are “protecting” their users from those sources by censoring them wholesale.

    It’s all RIGGED: Facebook, Twitter executives joined the Joe Biden transition team weeks ago

    It’s no surprise to learn that top executives from Facebook and Twitter joined the Joe Biden transition team weeks ago, and they are now conspiring to make sure Biden becomes president by burying extremely important, highly relevant news stories that the public deserves to see. In effect, the tech giants have become Joe Biden’s campaign team, which means they are supplying billions of dollars of “in kind” campaign contributions to the Biden campaign in an illegal way, in utter violation of FEC rules and campaign funding laws. For this reason, the CEOs of these tech giants must be arrested and charged with election rigging, fraud and campaign finance crimes.

    More importantly, if Joe Biden manages to win the election because of all this rigging by the tech giants, that victory would be null and void. Biden would have only won by cheating via coordinated techno-fascist censorship carried out by the very same executives who are already on his transition team. This means Biden himself is tied to the corporate censorship that’s trying to help him steal this election by cheating.

    This cannot be tolerated in a free republic, especially when the crimes that Joe Biden has obviously committed include international money laundering, official corruption and numerous bribery crimes that should land him behind bars, not behind a desk in the Oval Office. Joe Biden is an international criminal, not a national leader, yet the tech giants are going all-out to try to hide these truths from the public, all in a deliberate, coordinated effort to eliminate Trump from the White House by any means possible… even if it means carrying out crimes of election rigging.

    How to really stop Big Tech’s crimes against humanity… and it’s not by ASKING them to stop

    We must not allow this criminal cabal of techno-tyrants and Biden crime family members to rule over our nation and determine what we are allowed to read, speak or debate. We must join together and defeat Joe Biden and the techno-fascists, which means having them all arrested and charged for their crimes against the United States.

    Because that’s the only way this ends: With gunpoint arrests. Big Tech will never voluntarily stop censoring the American people… they will have to be forced to do so via government enforcement. There are a multitude of ways to accomplish this, and I list just a few here:

    • Have the State Dept. seize the domain names of Twitter.com, Facebook.com, Google.com, YouTube.com, etc. until they stop the censorship.
    • Order local power companies to cut off electricity to techno-fascists that are engaged in election rigging, bringing down all their power-hungry servers.
    • Unleash the military police to physically cuff and arrest the CEOs of the techno-tyrants, then charge them with sedition or treason and hold them for trial via military tribunals.
    • Use government excavators to dig up all the fiber optic lines coming out of the server farms of the tech companies, instantly severing their communications with the outside world. (This is so easy to do that construction companies do it accidentally on a daily basis…)
    • Seize all their bank accounts as illicit profits gained from defrauding the United States of America, and hold their money until they stop censoring the American people. Or better yet, give the money back to the people that the tech companies SPIED ON to earn those illicit profits.
    • Arrest and remove all employees of Google, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube, charging them with collusion to defraud America and interfere in the national election. Remove them from their desks and bring down the techno-tyranny infrastructure.

    Subpoenas are worthless. The US Senate is requesting Jack Dorsey show up at a Senate hearing next week and lie to them yet again about his treason. If you really want to stop Twitter’s treason, use one or more of the suggestions listed above.

     

    I don't know what a solution may be, but I agree it's not going to be ASKING them to stop. Can anyone think of a better/best potential solution?

     

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 3:47pm

    #40

    gallantfarms

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    Censored on YouTube (Funny!)

    I found this short video amusing:

    What it's like getting censored on YouTube:

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 7:58pm

    #41
    ao

    ao

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    vampires need blood - deprive them of it

    We have discussed much of this in the past but many of these issues bear repeating and some are new.  Simply stated, we need to deprive the vampires of their blood (i.e. our patronage and money).

    For the banks and the credit card companies, avoid getting into debt and, if in debt, get out of it as soon as possible and stay out of it.  Learn to live as frugally as possible.  Buy only what you need until you can afford to also buy what you want.  Also, if you can, use smaller local banks and especially credit unions as opposed to the big banks.  With credit cards, avoid using them as loan companies.  Make them work for you rather than you working for them.  Use them to pay you with cash back cards or, better yet, pay cash and avoid having the business you're buying from have to pay the credit card company, especially with small local businesses, particularly the ma and pa types.

    For Wall Street with investment vehicles that parasitize your financial assets with ongoing annual expenses, seek to reduce those expenses as much as possible, if not eliminate them.  For example, most mutual funds have higher expenses than ETFs and ETFs have higher expenses than individual stocks.  Education is critical here as NO ONE will take care of your money as well as you will, if you are properly educated.  This takes some time but it is time well spent.  I speak from much personal experience here.

    For mainstream media, turn off the boob tube.  Listen to inspirational radio funded by private donations rather than radio funded by endless advertisements or subscriptions or government grants.  If you want to read a particular magazine or newspaper that is contrary to your values, read it at a library rather than buying a subscription.

    For social media, meet up with your friends in person instead or give them a call or, heaven forbid, write them.  And also look into emerging platforms that don't practice the censorship of the big guns.  Perhaps some of you can offer a few suggestions here.  I'm not up on the latest as I've long eschewed any form of social media, much to my happiness and contentment as compared to those whose participate.

    For professional sports that are dictating your cultural and political practices and preferences, turn them off and let the government subsidized stadiums owned by the billionaires fall into disuse.  Get up off your armchair and participate in physical activities yourself rather than living vicariously through others playing rather silly games that ultimately amount to nothing in the long run.  And get out in nature (and the fresh air and sunshine) if you can, the arena of ultimate sport.  Just getting down on your tummy and looking at the grass in your backyard and seeing the amazing miniature jungle that resides there is fascinating.  Nature is incredibly soothing and restorative.

    For the medical system and Big Pharma, take responsibility for your own health.  Nutrition, exercise, psychological health practices like meditation, and spiritual practices like prayer will all decrease your reliance upon the system.  This is an area in particular that requires a lot of self education but it pays off.  I recently developed an earache and solved it in two days with self application of 3% of hydrogen peroxide.  I remember such episodes almost always entailed a doctor's visit when I was younger and drank a lot of cow's milk, swam in a public pool on a swim team, and had a father who was a smoker, all of which contributed to the problem.  Ditto with using vitamin D and an elderberry extract to avoid the flu (and the flu vaccine), a prophylactic strategy I've successfully used for many, many years.

    It goes without saying here to seek to grow as much of your own food as possible.  The quality and freshness of the food, the beneficial bacteria released by working the soil, the physical outdoor exercise, etc. will all make you healthier, wealthier, and happier.  And you can give away some of what you have or exchange with friends and neighbors and enjoy the benefits of giving and a quality of social interaction that social media can never provide.

    For search engines, avoid Google and use one like Duck Duck Go.  The differences between the two on "sensitive" subjects is often profound and clearly demonstrates the extent of censorship that is occurring.

    Instead of YouTube, look for some of the emerging private video platforms like Brighteon.

    I'm sure the crypto fans will say use Bitcoin rather than FRNs where you can and I see the strength of that argument.

    Insurances present a dilemma as our modern existence often requires them by law or in order to safeguard what you've worked so hard far.  But always shop around for the best deals and do that regularly, read the fine print to know what you are and are not buying and covered for, and never give up when denied coverage if your cause is righteous.

    There are other areas where we can deprive them of their blood but these are the ones that come to mind at the moment.

    The promising thing is, I look around me and see the villagers are waking up.  The torches are being lit and the pitch forks are coming out.  And one day, the boldest will go forth with their wooden stakes and put fear into the cold hearts of the vampires rather than vice versa.

     

     

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  • Sat, Oct 17, 2020 - 9:51pm

    SagerXX

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    TESTIFY, ao!

    From one old-timer to another:  very well-said!!!  Er...written...

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 1:38am

    #43
    VTGothic

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    Spot on, ao

    Nice review, beautifully said.

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 7:45am

    #44
    Mary59

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    Thank You ao

    You speak like a true leader ao

    Thank you for the inspiration.

     

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 2:38pm

    agitating prop

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    Peggy

    Agreed. People feel the free flow of information is always liberating. The Rohingas of Burma were incarcerated, killed, driven out of their country, largely due to Facebook, a few years ago. Facebook had a "who are we to be moral arbiters," position at the time and let the hate and disinformation rip.

    Social media and search engines, like Google, Twitter etc..are constantly feeding back to the reader,  a steady stream of revenue generating ads and 'news and views' based on their prejudices, beliefs, (ignorant, idiotic, poorly sourced or otherwise). They seem to be cleaning things up a bit now, by deleting accounts of hateful nutjobs. The problem is they can cast their nets too wide and there's a lot of collateral catch that should be left alone.

    I LOVE that Twitter deletes Trump's posts if they step over the line. If he tries to use social media to incite violence, post election, social media will be ready and delete more accounts and all of his stupid rants.

    Free speech is taken advantage of by demagogues, who lie, cheat and bully their way into a position of power and then curtail ALL speech that doesn't fit within their own agendas, once that power is fully cemented.

    Freedom is a fraught concept, full of paradox and ambiguity.

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 4:09pm

    ao

    ao

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    agitating prop, i have two questions

    How are the parameters of "a hateful nut job" defined?

    Who gets to define them?

    As for me, I am in favor of free speech, whether it is coming from a saint or from "a hateful nut job".  I may disagree with communists, fascists, etc. but I do not disagree with their right to express themselves.  Where would you draw the line in preventing that free speech?  Therein lies the rub.

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 4:53pm

    #47
    2retired

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    2retired said:

    At one time (as I remember) you could have a rousing argument with neither party particularly attached to their position, as an intellectual bit of thought provoking entertainment. Being a devils advocate was fun then, as you could submit to a resounding defeat, or make light of someone's earnestness. Seems to be a long gone memory. My current read "how to have impossible conversations" Boghossian & Lindsay speaks to a lost social art.

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 5:05pm

    agitating prop

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    TBP

    Hateful nutjobs are people who accuse others of specific misdeeds without clear evidence and whose accusations can rouse those who don't know any better to acts of violence.

    I am not talking about people who call somebody a socialist when they aren't, or small potatoes like that. I mean more like politicians and opinion shapers who have a witch hunt mentality and smear someone with being a pedophile, or aligned with a pedophile ring, without evidence. It's particularly agregious, if it's part of a platform against an opposing candidate or even an entire party.

    It's not about merely lying, its about inciting violence. That's what happened to the Rohinga's. It may have been the first attempted genocide that can be largely attributed to Facebook.

    Allowing atrocity propaganda that is often the lead up to civil unrest and or genocide is part of 'free speech.'

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 5:38pm

    #49
    hail

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    Reply to #39

    None of the agencies in DC are going to help.  Think who lives in DC - the heads of the various agencies - FBI, NSA, CIA, Pentagon, ECT.  This is how they voted in 2016: Clinton 93%, Trump 4%.  It's an echo chamber.

     

     

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 6:14pm

    Oliveoilguy

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    Oliveoilguy said:

    Agitating prop.....you said “Hateful nutjobs are people who accuse others of specific misdeeds without clear evidence and whose accusations can rouse those who don't know any better to acts of violence.”

    So that would be the people who falsely accused Trump of Russian collusion with made up evidence and created hatred against the man by 3 years of Violent Media Rhetoric. The state sponsored lies and media lies gave rise to the violent subgroups within Antifa and BLM.  Thanks for clearing this up, and showing us who the Hateful Nutjobs have proven by factual evidence to be.

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 6:47pm

    agitating prop

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    Olive Oil guy

    "So that would be the people who falsely accused Trump of Russian collusion with made up evidence and created hatred against the man by 3 years of Violent Media Rhetoric. The state sponsored lies and media lies gave rise to the violent subgroups within Antifa and BLM. Thanks for clearing this up, and showing us who the Hateful Nutjobs have proven by factual evidence to be."

    Olive Oil Guy

    I will repeat what I said. Those who accuse others of atrocities, without clear evidence are Hateful Nutjobs. Nothing you mention above rises to the level of an atrocity. It may be dishonest, stupid, obsessive and or wrong, but it isn't accusing somebody of an atrocity.

    This is a non partisan issue. It involves the limits of free speech and where lines should be drawn.

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 7:06pm

    ao

    ao

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    agitating prop, so the question naturally arises

    How do you define an atrocity?  Would an atrocity be the organizer of a recent conservative demonstration in San Francisco, an African American named Philip Anderson, having his two front teeth knocked out by a sucker punching Antifa assailant?  Or would he have to break Anderson's jaw?   Or break his neck (as a powerful, unanticipated punch can do)?  Or put him into a coma?  Or kill him? All this in response to no violent threat or action on Anderson's part, to my knowledge.  Would this assailant qualify as a hateful nutjob?

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  • Sun, Oct 18, 2020 - 10:23pm

    #53

    davefairtex

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    8

    correct by definition

    Ao-

    How do you define an atrocity? Would an atrocity be the organizer of a recent conservative demonstration in San Francisco, an African American named Philip Anderson, having his two front teeth knocked out by a sucker punching Antifa assailant?

    If an Antifa member does something, by definition it can't possibly be an atrocity, because their very name says that they are ANTI-fascist, which means any act that any Antifa member takes against a Nazi is a justified act of community self-defense.  The target was a Nazi!

    What is a Nazi?  Well, Nazis are, of course, identified by Antifa members.  They reserve the right to identify Nazis.  Someone has to - so many Nazis go unidentified in this world, and they come in so many shapes and sizes - and Antifa are our community's Nazi identification team.

    "Look, there's a Nazi!"  (bang!). "Yay, the Nazi is dead!"  No need for judge, jury, presentation of evidence, a legal defense, cross-examination of witnesses, or any of that time-consuming legal process.  An Antifa member's assessment in real time that someone is a Nazi is all the due process that Nazis deserve.  The community must be defended.

    So what might be termed a "sneaky sucker punch" executed by a normal person against another normal person, is actually an act of community self-defense when executed by an Antifa member on a Nazi.

    You should probably watch what you say.  After all, criticism of Antifa is all an Antifa member needs to identify you as a Nazi.  By definition - only a Nazi would criticize Antifa.  And you know what happens next.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 4:58am

    #54
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    6

    Penguin Will said:

    It all seems a little on the impossible side doesn't it?

    Honestly, I don't think there are any clean, elegant, and entirely fair ways to approach this issue. Like Bilbo, we will just have to muddle through and do the best we can. We are humans, that is our lot. If anything, it is this admission of fallibility that will lead us through successfully if anything can. But it will require that a lot of hubris be abandoned.

    There is nothing more dangerous than a group of young humans filled to the brim with righteous indignation. At this moment we have a lot of young people who seem to believe that the 1st Amendment is a cumbersome throwaway. That they are entitled to disable it if someone finds something hurtful or it causes unease. Historical understanding of the 1st Amendment is treated as toxic waste and they revel in trampling it.... AND they believe they are entirely justified in doing so. AND that they have the wisdom to do so.

    Where have we seen this mindset before? (I'm looking at you Baby Boomers.... I kid, I kid!) :p

    In the end freedom of speech is the safety valve of society. The disinfectant that allows us to weed out dangers to our society without picking up weapons and solving our disagreements the old fashioned way. Without it we are powerless to identify and eliminate dangers. We can't argue and muddle our way into the correct decision. We can't find the middle ground that does the least damage while preserving our principles.

    And if we end up causing some unease in the mind of a group of petulant children who wish to abandon the field and retreat so some safe place where rainbows and unicorns abound? Too bad. Time to grow up and sharpen your intellect. Use those wonderful years in college to explore new ideas and classic ways of debate. Children and monsters try to prevent those who disagree from having their say.

    Will

     

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 7:42am

    #55
    tbp

    tbp

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    Who controls agitating_prop's mind?

    @agitating prop
    Social media and search engines, like Google, Twitter etc..are constantly feeding back to the reader, a steady stream of revenue generating ads and 'news and views' based on their prejudices, beliefs, (ignorant, idiotic, poorly sourced or otherwise). They seem to be cleaning things up a bit now, by deleting accounts of hateful nutjobs. The problem is they can cast their nets too wide and there's a lot of collateral catch that should be left alone.

    I LOVE that Twitter deletes Trump's posts if they step over the line. If he tries to use social media to incite violence, post election, social media will be ready and delete more accounts and all of his stupid rants.

    Free speech is taken advantage of by demagogues, who lie, cheat and bully their way into a position of power and then curtail ALL speech that doesn't fit within their own agendas, once that power is fully cemented.

    Freedom is a fraught concept, full of paradox and ambiguity.

    The people telling you all that are the people doing it. It's pure projection as always. THEY are the demagogues, bullies, hateful nutjobs (who'll pretent to believe whatever falsehoods fit the enslaving narrative they're selling you), censors, and violence-inciting amoral political activists (your cities are on fire because of them)... but you somehow still haven't noticed. To you "the problem" is that now they have "cast their net too wide". You're SO naive, so in right brain feelz, that you'd be praising the CCP if you lived in China. You're believing the false narrative of some very dangerous people that have to and will end up behind bars (behind Barr's hopefully, hahaha).

    Just the facts, FYI.

    NOW, here's the UNDENIABLE evidence that you may (or may not) be completely brainwashed, and choosing to be:

    Do you disagree that they are covering up Biden's senility/dementia?:

    And his repeated child-touching that would instantly end the career of ANY politician on the other side of the MSM's narrative?:

    Say yes or no. So that we can understand and fully appreciate where your mind is at, who is "agitating" your mind with "props" that override your own eyes and ears.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 7:47am

    000

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    In Reply and Out of Time

    https://theintercept.com/2020/10/15/trump-boasts-federal-task-force-killing-antifascist-wanted-murder-portland/

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 11:17am

    #57
    agitating prop

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    Falsely labelling people or whole groups as pedophiles.

    The subject line says it all. If someone is promoting the idea that either the democrat elite or republican "elite"  are engaged in pedophile rings...that's atrocity propaganda....and it can...and has...promoted violence on a small scale already.

    Should false or unsubstantiated claims of pedophile torture, cannibalism etc.. be censored? Yes, because they  obviously incite violence. As Penguin Will said, there are no clear cut answers here.

    In an attempt to clean up misinformation, social media has cast too wide a net and there is collateral catch. They may be catering to big pharma, or they may just have a tough time keeping on top of it all.

    If Chris is being deplatformed from Youtube, it may have to do with the Mother Jones article, in which case he should consider a defamation suit against Mother Jones.

    The film Plandemic was immediately deplatformed by Youtube and seeing as the misinformation contained within was interfering with the message that we have to mask up, that was a plus.

    Because the  film developed work arounds, online it has caused no end of cultural stress during an emergency situation. Now, does it mean that big Pharma is interfering with Google, Youtube? In this case, likely not.

    And tbp, I would appreciate it if you ceased insulting me with subject lines, suggesting someone is controlling my mind. Fair enough?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 11:39am

    Susan7

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    Deplatforming

    “The film Plandemic was immediately deplatformed by Youtube and seeing as the misinformation contained within was interfering with the message that we have to mask up, that was a plus.”

    That’s the problem. Why do they get to decide what “message” I may see and evaluate?
    How can I do my own research if I am prevented from evaluating the arguments, pro and con, on any issue if arguments contrary to certain interests are suppressed out of the gate? I no longer trust those who clamor for “curated information”.  It is dystopian.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 11:40am

    #59

    davefairtex

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    the enlightenment vs papal infallibility

    The film Plandemic was immediately deplatformed by Youtube and seeing as the misinformation contained within was interfering with the message that we have to mask up, that was a plus.

    Ok.  So scientific debate is now under the control of Youtube's "fact checkers."  I'm not comfortable with that.  Guess what: someone "interfering with a message" is actually encouraged activity in a society that is allegedly the product of The Enlightenment.

    Here's an article - using the wayback machine, as it was recently deleted by the magazine which previously published it - which lays out just how (way back in 2016) the dental world was being confronted with the new reality that said: "masks don't work."

    It would seem as though we have a philosophical struggle between free discussion, evidence, and debate/The Enlightenment on one side, and Papal Infallibility/the Church on the other.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200605090916/https://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/

    The primary reason for mandating the wearing of face masks is to protect dental personnel from airborne pathogens. This review has established that face masks are incapable of providing such a level of protection. Unless the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, national and provincial dental associations and regulatory agencies publically admit this fact, they will be guilty of perpetuating a myth which will be a disservice to the dental profession and its patients. It would be beneficial if, as a consequence of the review, all present infection control recommendations were subjected to the same rigorous testing as any new clinical intervention. Professional associations and governing bodies must ensure the clinical efficacy of quality improvement procedures prior to them being mandated. It is heartening to know that such a trend is gaining a momentum which might reveal the inadequacies of other long held dental infection control assumptions. Surely, the hallmark of a mature profession is one which permits new evidence to trump established beliefs. In 1910, Dr. C. Chapin, a public health pioneer, summarized this idea by stating, “We should not be ashamed to change our methods; rather, we should be ashamed not to do so.” 36Until this occurs, as this review has revealed, dentists have nothing to fear by unmasking.

    One more interesting tidbit from Alex Berenson's twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1317875526997102594

    A lead investigator on the Danish mask study - the ONLY (as far as I know) randomized trial to see if masks protect from #COVID - was asked when it would be published. His answer: “as soon as a journal is brave enough.” If you think that means the study shows masks work...
    While I'm still dutifully wearing my mask indoors, I must admit to being very interested to seeing how this study turns out.  If the outcome of the trial is negative - the longer they suppress it, the larger the backlash will be.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 12:06pm

    #60

    davefairtex

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    8

    control axis

    Oh and I forgot to mention, a subject of recent interest is the recruitment of assets by the intel community.  They use a term called MICE:

    • Money
    • Ideology
    • Compromise
    • Ego

    So while I wouldn't try to make the claim that everyone in one team (Blue/Red/Both) are all pedophiles, at the same time, if your Three Letter Agency could use MICE (and specifically, "C") to compromise leading political figures using techniques normally employed on political figures in enemy nations, you could get your budget approved each and every year without fail.  For the Good of the Nation, of course.

    J.Edgar Hoover did this for 37 long years at FBI using his secret files he had on everyone. And he was gay.  Or maybe just closer to 6 on the Kinsey Scale than he'd like to admit.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/edgar-hoover-sex-men-homosexual/story?id=14948447

    And we imagine this use of compromise via pedophilia is not happening today because?  Why, exactly?

    Especially given Epstein?  And Pedo Island?  And the Lolita Express?  And how Epstein got off virtually scot free the first time around, along with an infinite list of co-conspirators?  And him committing suicide in prison?  With no prison guards charged for anything after his death?

    And all those pictures?  That evidence trove that the FBI seized and has been since ... buried for reasons unknown?

    Yeah.  So no compromise of our leadership.  Nothing to see here.  Both sides of the aisle vote for both Eternal War, and Pharma, and Defense/Industrial, almost without exception.

    AP are you really telling us this isn't happening?  Its a very odd position for a part-time revolutionary to hold - covering for compromised elites engaged in such activity.

    You know, you are starting to sound an awful lot like Doug.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 1:11pm

    #61

    Jim H

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    Best line of the day - Susan7

    Such clarity and elegance in the use of words;

    "I no longer trust those who clamor for “curated information”. It is dystopian."

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 1:13pm

    agitating prop

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    Who gets to decide?

    In a national emergency, a health crisis where people have to work in concert with one another to prevent spread, someone has to decide whether we social distance and mask up. If it was left up to those who are getting paid for clicks on youtube, off the backs of people who don't have a science background, death rates would be higher. Nobody would mask up or social distance.

    That's a fact not a 'matter of opinion,'

    Youtube videos leveraging off fundamentalist Christianity, to tar those who oppose Trump as vile monsters and pedophiles, are using post enlightenment ideas and all of the technology that science provides, to push a medieval agenda.

    Nobody wants to go back to the witch hunts of the Middle Ages, spawned by post enlightenment technology, ironically. Do they? If not, the process of demonization which some of the alt right favors, through their religious beliefs, has to be tempered.

    It is too bad Chris got caught up in the algorithm. The fact checking must be very difficult. Those leveraging off superstition, on Youtube, pop up like mushrooms. Hard to keep track, I imagine.

    Dave Fairtex

    You've peeled one layer of the onion. Keep peeling.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 1:20pm

    #63
    tbp

    tbp

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    agitating_prop ultimately controls his own mind

    The subject line says it all. If someone is promoting the idea that either the democrat elite or republican "elite" are engaged in pedophile rings...that's atrocity propaganda....and it can...and has...promoted violence on a small scale already.

    Evidence? Republican elitists ARE involved, and also have to be taken down. Some of this was exposed by Sen. John DeCamp of Nebraska a long time ago. As Q has been saying from the beginning, this is not about R vs D, this is about rooting out unacceptable evil.

    Should false or unsubstantiated claims of pedophile torture, cannibalism etc.. be censored? Yes, because they obviously incite violence. As Penguin Will said, there are no clear cut answers here.

    Who decides what is "false or unsubstantiated claims"? The "fact-checkers" (i.e. the MSM)?? Evidence for ANY such false claim ever having "obviously incited violence"? I'm pretty sure the only thing you will find is more lies from them (but show me). Don't you think that's just the cover story they tell you?

    In an attempt to clean up misinformation, social media has cast too wide a net and there is collateral catch. They may be catering to big pharma, or they may just have a tough time keeping on top of it all.

    If it were the other way around, and all those absurdly false claims they make about Trump were censored by the MSM and Big Tech, would you be trying to justify their actions saying that they have "cast too wide a net and there is collateral catch"? And do you seriously not realize that they will censor YOU too, eventually, if you so much as don't believe some aspect of their false narratives (such as autism possibly being caused by vaccines, a major bannable offense)?

    If Chris is being deplatformed from Youtube, it may have to do with the Mother Jones article, in which case he should consider a defamation suit against Mother Jones.

    So the actions of the censors are justified because some ideological fellow-travelers at some "news" outlet made up falsehoods about Chris? They're brazenly trying to "steal your democracy" and you're justifying their censorship of Chris and HCQ that resulted in who knows how many thousands of deaths... That's pretty incredible. You think it's not the result of extensive exposure to mind-control?

    The film Plandemic was immediately deplatformed by Youtube and seeing as the misinformation contained within was interfering with the message that we have to mask up, that was a plus.

    Wow. You really should have a closer look at the plague of corruption that Dr. Mikovits is exposing at the cost of her own well-being. But OK, what about all the others that were censored, all the doctors pushing HCQ and that "nobody has to die", getting censored as well? They tell you who the "enemy" is, then they censor that "enemy", and you cheer them on...

    Because the film developed work arounds, online it has caused no end of cultural stress during an emergency situation. Now, does it mean that big Pharma is interfering with Google, Youtube? In this case, likely not.

    What has caused more "stress", the suppression of HCQ and all the other effective cures and the resulting unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and the restriction and erosion of humanity's freedom, or some supposedly wicked internet conspiracy theorists with alternate viewpoints? Your defense of these people is unconscionable.

    It is too bad Chris got caught up in the algorithm. The fact checking must be very difficult. Those leveraging off superstition, on Youtube, pop up like mushrooms. Hard to keep track, I imagine.

    WOW. He didn't get "caught up in the algorithm" by accident, it is deliberate censorship. It's incredible that you're defending the people peeling away your rights, your free speech/1A, keeping the pandemic alive by suppressing all cures, deploying mind-controlled NPCs to burn your cities, openly in-your-face trying to steal the election by censoring information that would destroy their candidate (info that should've been exposed a long time ago), censoring ALL info that is damaging to their false narrative... They're doing all that and you're defending them over us and justifying their crimes... Truly shocking.

    And tbp, I would appreciate it if you ceased insulting me with subject lines, suggesting someone is controlling my mind. Fair enough?

    You can choose to perceive it as an "insult", but it's simply an accurate description (this new title is even more accurate), with open questions for you to address if you wish to dispute my assessment. You're not addressing any of the points brought up, so should we take that as you confirming that, to you, it doesn't at all matter what the facts and evidence are, it only matters that the MSM and Big Tech (that single source of information that doesn't control your mind) says one thing or the other?

    Again, what are your thoughts about the MSM and Big Tech censoring the most relevant facts about Biden, such as his obvious dementia and inappropriate child touching videos that would've ended the career of anyone who isn't one of them (one of their cabal/criminal network)?

    Will you address the facts and arguments, or will you continue sticking to the superficial narrative those who don't REALLY control your mind are feeding you?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 1:47pm

    davefairtex

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    6

    peeling onions

    You've peeled one layer of the onion. Keep peeling.

    My goodness.  "Objection.  Non-responsive."

    Again.  I asked:

    Yeah. So no compromise of our leadership. Nothing to see here. Both sides of the aisle vote for both Eternal War, and Pharma, and Defense/Industrial, almost without exception.

    AP are you really telling us this isn't happening? Its a very odd position for a part-time revolutionary to hold - covering for compromised elites engaged in such activity.

    Epstein certainly corrupted somebody - probably a lot of somebodies - through pedophilia.  He had an island.  And a plane.  And a whole lot of money.  And some really amazing connections.  Bill Clinton, for one.  Bill Gates, for another.

    And here you are, asking for a world "curated for our protection."  Calling those people out who are apparently worried about the pedophilia control axis that Epstein constructed (at whose bequest?) as committing an atrocity?  They are somehow Nazis?  Them???  And not Epstein???

    If you are successful in suppressing this line of questioning, who wins?

    The elites corrupted and controlled via Epstein, of course.

    I'm pretty content with my onion-peeling to date.  This "first" layer is good enough for me.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:05pm

    agitating prop

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    Susan7

    But you obviously trust somebody for information. Correct? You think there is some authority you can trust? Maybe its someone who aligns with your fundamentalist Christian beliefs....if you are fundamentalist. I have no idea if this is true, or not.

    I do know a many people are of this ilk. Because government lies...and they do, (except for Donald Trump. He's honest, apparently) alternative opinions coming from alternative right wing media, must be true and not agenda driven.

    Once you've decided folks are satanic pedophiles you don't have to give them a fair trial, or a fair anything. Fundamentalist Christians in America do not believe people have rights who are 'taken by the devil'.

    The end result is that they would trash the Constitution with joy, because...Satan.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:15pm

    Yoxa

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    Evidence

    Evidence for ANY such false claim ever having "obviously incited violence"?

    Here's a sample: https://time.com/4591411/comet-ping-pong-shooter-complaint/

    Do some reading about "Pizzagate".

    Freedom of speech means we're free to say the things we think, but where does it follow that anyone else is obliged to help us say them?

    I think this is relevant: Tristan Harris had a nice interview with Timothy Wu, author of The Attention Merchants, about the rise of ad-supported newspapers in the 1830s and how that played out over time, leading to a rash of fake news, a handful of wars and fascism, but in the end, to the journalistic standards that guided the industry for a few decades (don't report rumor, verify with two independent sources, etc).

     

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:16pm

    agitating prop

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    It ratchets up.

    No, I am not telling you that those specific things you mention aren't happening. That's why I made the comment that I did. You have peeled back one layer of the onion. Good for you.

    And my comments about censorship involve targeting specific individuals or the elites of one specific party as being Satanic pedophiles, without evidence.

    With Epstein there was plenty of evidence and the investigation into this dude and his ties to the Mossad and Israel need to be looked at, as well as all of the people he has the goods on. But that's not going to happen because people in power are still protecting that information.

    There is enough circumstantial evidence against the royal prince that assumptions of his involvement are fair. But, that doesn't mean that the entire royal family are baby eating reptilians, which actually is a very popular theory out there right now. See how it ratchets up?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:24pm

    #68
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    1

    TBP

    Evidence? Republican elitists ARE involved, and also have to be taken down. Some of this was exposed by Sen. John DeCamp of Nebraska a long time ago. As Q has been saying from the beginning, this is not about R vs D, this is about rooting out unacceptable evil.

    The singular focus on elites being involved in Satanic pedophile worship, drinking the blood of infants is ridiculous....and takes focus off the real rings that are operating. I don't know how many, how many people are involved, but then...neither do you.

    Please, I am going to ask you politely, one more time, to quit referring to me as mind controlled. Okay?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:27pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Thank you, Yoxa

    I did look into Pizza gate. There's nothing there. It's a bunch of trumped up nonsense.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:37pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2187

    3

    baby eating reptilians

    There is enough circumstantial evidence against the royal prince that assumptions of his involvement are fair. But, that doesn't mean that the entire royal family are baby eating reptilians, which actually is a very popular theory out there right now. See how it ratchets up?

    Well I can't speak to baby eating reptilians one way or the other.

    Some of that Podesta-related art certainly does look pretty unpleasant.  I didn't see any reptiles - or did I?  I forget - but it was all really creepy.  The people loosely connected to that group are definitely not a bunch of normal people.

    But I digress.

    Let's stick with the stuff that has some good circumstantial evidence to it.

    Its not just the Prince with Epstein.  It's Clinton too.  And by extension, all the Clintons.  Bill, flying 28 times on that plane?  And Gates?  And presumably a bunch of others we don't know about yet.  And of course Podestas are joined at the hip with the Clintons.  Who are provably connected to Epstein.

    And I don't think its just the Mossad.  I'm sure our very own Three Letter Agencies are up to their eyeballs in this op.  No way they'd be left in the cold with this operation happening right in their own backyard.  The better to control the people in charge of the budget.  I mean - you're kidding right?  The NSA that watches everything sent everywhere just pretends this stuff doesn't happen?  To our own top people?

    Presumably to keep them in line.

    It really does explain a whole lot of what is going on.

    And maybe the emails from Hunter Biden's laptop will help shed some more light too.

    And maybe we can get a peek at Anthony Weiner's laptop while we're at it.

    And those emails from Hillary's server.  NSA has a copy of those for sure.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:55pm

    #71
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Epstein

    I'm sure there's a whole rats nest of well connected pedophiles in that one. And as far as letter agencies covering up for them, that's likely true. Plus Epstein talked about, "Oh, we don't have to worry about that judge. We own him." I am sure it would horrify many who are only looking at the surface of this thing, what and who are involved. Who killed him? That would be a good start.

    As far as Pizzagate and the artistic community in elite circles. It is purposely provocative to gain attention, as that is the only way to make money as an artist. Still lifes of peonies just won't cut it anymore. You have to shock. And if you can shock in a dark way, all the better. It is sick and twisted.

     

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 2:58pm

    #72
    tbp

    tbp

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    2

    Still not addressing any actual arguments yet defending censorship; Some pizzagate evidence

    @Yoxa
    Here's a sample: https://time.com/4591411/comet-ping-pong-shooter-complaint/

    Do some reading about "Pizzagate".

    Freedom of speech means we're free to say the things we think, but where does it follow that anyone else is obliged to help us say them?

    LOL, I'm very familiar with pizzagate. I don't think you are though. Read here for arguments for and against from posters on this site.

    I knew this one would be the one that would be brought up, it's the same one as always. Even if this wasn't a false flag, which is quite likely (it sure looked like that at the time due to the timing and Cui Bono), the shooter acted on his own accord, not because someone exposing the Podesta emails and speculating about Comet Ping Pong encouraged him to do it (like e.g. the MSM encourages race riots).

    Have you seen the posters and assorted "art" at that place? Watch Part 5 of Fall of the Cabal ("Children, Art & Pizza"): https://www.bit chute.com/video/aYfZqy5gWmE0/

    And also Part 4 ("Child Lovers Everywhere"): https://www.bit chute.com/video/Xgsb9Jci8XSX/

    [some bitchute links still sometimes censored by PP software, "censorship is out of control" indeed!]

    After watching that, do you still think there is nothing whatsoever that's suspicious about Comet Ping Pong or pizzagate as a whole? Feel free to reply to this specific addressing of the actual evidence, or you can "slither your way out" without addressing any actual facts and arguments like @agitating prop does.

    @agitating prop
    No, I am not telling you that those specific things you mention aren't happening. That's why I made the comment that I did. You have peeled back one layer of the onion. Good for you.

    OK so they're lying about all that... but they're honest brokers in their censorship efforts??? Why would you believe that?? Because they told you there's lots of "hate speech" and extremism out there that represents a problem? Yet they NEVER censor actual hateful speech if it's coming from their direction.

    And my comments about censorship involve targeting specific individuals or the elites of one specific party as being Satanic pedophiles, without evidence.

    There IS evidence, see above for some. Address the facts, don't keep repeating that there is no evidence, if you don't want to be perceived as being dishonest.

    And I told you, it's not just one party. Look up the name I gave you. Also research Kay Griggs for how this happens also in the military. How many of these are blackmailed pedophiles (that's how you effectively control someone, duh)?:

    Granted that some of them are clueless fools who believe the MSM lies and don't know that Biden is demented and can't contain himself from touching children highly inappropriately, and don't know anything about what's really going on. But some of these are part of the pedo blackmail network whose central figures (Epstein and Maxwell) have already been arrested due to overwhelming evidence (and some are corrupt in other ways). You don't want to believe it, fine, but ADDRESS THE ARGUMENTS or don't expect to not be labeled "mind-controlled". You've agreed that they're covering up critical facts (dementia, child-molestation, Hunter emails, and there's a very long etc) and are doing brazen election interference in favor of Biden, that already puts you well ahead of fully mind-controlled NPCs (e.g. Doug and mjtrac) in terms of breaking the spell and coming to realize that these people are not in the business of "news" and "safety" at all. What makes you believe their censorship efforts are honest and that their intention really is to curate information and prevent "hate" and "misinformation"?

    With Epstein there was plenty of evidence and the investigation into this dude and his ties to the Mossad and Israel need to be looked at, as well as all of the people he has the goods on. But that's not going to happen because people in power are still protecting that information.

    Exactly, and the people in power are the DS/DNC/MSM/SV. Are you imagining otherwise, that the people in power i.e. those who control the narrative, are somehow someone else?

    There is enough circumstantial evidence against the royal prince that assumptions of his involvement are fair. But, that doesn't mean that the entire royal family are baby eating reptilians, which actually is a very popular theory out there right now. See how it ratchets up?

    Very popular where? Straw-man much? Non-sequitur also. And do you realize that you might well get censored if saying only just that on social media sites? But you'd still defend them??

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 3:01pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Please not Bill Gates!

    LOL Dave,

    Now I am going to have that image stuck in my head all day. Bill Gates engaged in unsavory activity with a teenage girl. Ewww...The Clintons in similar circumstances are bad enough, but Gates? That is too creepy for prime time.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 3:10pm

    RandomMike

    RandomMike

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    Posts: 71

    1

    Even agencies fear

    I noticed long ago, that on certain subjects/organizations, even some three letter people prefer to pretend they are not there.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 3:10pm

    #75
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    1

    Why platform these people, TBP

    Qanon grew out of Pizzagate. Here is more info. It's important.

     

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 3:12pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Exactly

    the shooter acted on his own accord,

    Yup, he acted, because he believed something that wasn't factual.

    Which is exactly the point, and exactly the problem.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 3:15pm

    #77
    tbp

    tbp

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    Joined: Apr 12 2020

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    Timeline of events

    Why platform these people, TBP
    Qanon grew out of Pizzagate. Here is more info. It's important.

    Q has led anons/researchers to evidence far beyond just pizzagate, and pizzagate is something we knew about much before Q came around. I knew about the pedo rings many, many years before either Q anon or pizzagate. Even before Obama. Look up John DeCamp and Kay Griggs, for starters. Oh and CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE. Watch it.

     

    "Yup, he acted, because he believed something that wasn't factual. Which is exactly the point, and exactly the problem."

    What problem?? You have ONE case. ONE. With zero deaths. And that's only if we assume it wasn't a false flag by them, to divert attention, which is quite likely. How could your point be weaker than that?

     

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 3:32pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    1

    Yoxa said:

    You asked for some evidence, I gave you a sample. The guy's violent actions were inspired by incorrect information.

    On my planet, people taking the law into their own hands based on bad info is Not A Good Thing.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 4:00pm

    #79
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    1

    Providing a platform for fanatics

    The QAnon conspiracy theory has been linked to several violent acts since 2018, with QAnon supporters arrested for threatening politicians, breaking into the residence of the Canadian prime minister, an armed standoff near the Hoover dam, a kidnapping plot and two kidnappings, and at least one murder

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/15/qanon-violence-crimes-timeline

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 4:02pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    4

    Ap

    Whoa! I must have struck a nerve. I’m a Christian, I’ll gladly cop to that. But on the issue of trust, I lost most of that in late December of last year. The institutions I’d trusted for reliable information let me down, one after another. The deadly lies surrounding the suppression of information about life-saving treatment with HCQ

    is what drove me to rethink all my prior easy comfortable positions. What is it you folks say? “Question Authority”? Well I did and I do. Why are you so threatened by that?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 4:43pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Susan7

    Question everything doesn't mean blindly swallowing all the 'answers' you get back.  So good, you figured out how Big Pharma distorts reality.

    Now its time for you to figure out how 'alternative media' leverages your outrage against you. You too have peeled back one layer of the onion and have many layers left to go.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 5:31pm

    #82
    2retired

    2retired

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    2

    2retired said:

    It seems to me, some object to others having different thoughts, different beliefs or questioning a narrative. I remember having a controversial columnist as a guest speaker, and was surprised at his bland almost meek attitudes; when questioned about the apparent contradiction he said he was paid to write controversy! that was his role, didn't mean he had much attachment to any of the ideas. Now that stuff gets cancelled, censored, or erased from print and we are all poorer for the lack of intellectual exercise it engenders.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 5:49pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Susan7 said:

    You’ve got this thing with onions, lol. Maybe time to peel back a few of your own!

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 6:50pm

    ao

    ao

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    Yoxa, so based upon what you are stating

    I assume you oppose the actions of Antifa?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 6:59pm

    #85
    Wintergreen

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    2

    Let me out here. I'll get a cab.

    Chris, your righteous anger would be more impressive if you also referenced whose agenda Timcast & the New York Post serve, since neither of them share your supposed apolitical perspective. Your hard work since January devoted to alerting citizens to the dangers of Co19 was appreciated and the condemnation you encountered for it was undeserved and unjust. However, given you are now apparently defending the credibility of another Rupert Murdoch propaganda vehicle, none of which are known for their veracity or concern with journalistic integrity, I'm afraid your own credibility is going to take a hit from the non-cult members among us. Thanks for what you did on Covid. Can't ride along with you on this one.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 7:02pm

    ao

    ao

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    5

    AP, i think that as an artist

    There are many, many other ways of making money as an artist as opposed to constructing the type of art that Podesta has, the Marina Abramovic spirit cooking art, etc.  We have many artists in our small community.  Some do well financially, some don't.  But none of them begin to approach creating anything as foul and despicable as these people do.  You are right.  It is twisted and sick.  It goes beyond just trying to earn a living  ... way, way beyond.

    Just like Skull and Bones goes way beyond a college fraternal organization, Bohemian Grove goes way beyond an adult summer camp for men of influence, Mother of Darkness chateau goes way beyond a European historical site, references to pizza and a host of other items in e-mails goes way beyond a simple craving for Italian fast food, etc. ... way, way beyond.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 7:23pm

    ao

    ao

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    AP, i hope you have evidence for this statement

    "Fundamentalist Christians in America do not believe people have rights who are 'taken by the devil'."

    Can you tell me where that is written as doctrine for fundamentalist Christians?  I know hundreds of fundamentalist Christians from a number of different churches and I'm unaware of a single one who holds this belief.  Also, the vast majority of them fully embrace and support the Constitution and have absolutely no interest in trashing it.  They are, in fact, (with some exceptions, of course) some of the finest people I've ever met but I've also met fine atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, New Agers, etc.  I think when you start painting a particular religious group with such a broad (and apparently uninformed) brush and singling them out for defamation, you do yourself and others a disservice.

    You are a Canadian who would purport to understand the U.S. better than those living here and apparently a non-Christian (from the apparent disdain with which you refer to them) who understands their doctrines and positions better than they do?  I'm not sure I can accept your propositions as being credible based upon those facts.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 8:30pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Canadian

    a Canadian who would purport to understand the U.S. better than those living here

    Instead of rejecting an outside viewpoint, give thought to why some things look different from their perspective.

    A fish in the river has a certain view of the world, but nonetheless might have much to learn from someone on the shore.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 8:38pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Antifa

    I assume you oppose the actions of Antifa?

    I don't know enough about Antifa to answer that.

    Who are they and what sorts of things have they done to evoke your question?

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 9:18pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

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    Who's truth?

    Wintergreen, whilst I think that there is a high probability that the Biden story is made up, the problem with this sort of censorship is that only a few people decide what is good and what is bad information. So I support Chris's indignation but I wouldn't get as angry as he did because censorship of all sorts has been going on for so long that one can become a bit numbed to any individual example, particularly as there is so much garbage out there and apparently intelligent people are often taken in.

    Question everything.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 9:51pm

    ao

    ao

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    2

    Yoxa, read carefully

    Did you see any place where I said I rejected her view?  I simply don't value the view of someone seeing something secondhand to the same extent that I do someone living it firsthand.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 10:05pm

    ao

    ao

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    Yoxa, really?

    Methinks thou art being a bit disingenuous here.  But if you aren't, they are black dressed masked up bad boys using both verbal and physical intimidation and violence, usually in mob form on the street, to allegedly fight fascism while hypocritically using techniques that are straight out of the fascist playbook.  Hundreds of videos of their nefarious activities have been plastered all over the Internet, if you care to look.

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 10:28pm

    #93

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    9

    pattern recognition

    Wow.. we really have our share of distractions standing in the way of truth seeking today don't we!  For me, when I am trying to figure out what is true.. I look for patterns.  I interrogate many sources.  For instance, in regard to the Biden laptop hard drive emails.. we already have one of his ex-business partners who happens to be rotting in Fed. prison who has turned on Hunter and given the keys to his Google email account to a journalist.

    Aside from that little bit of triangulation, and of course Joe's bragging on video about this quid pro quo in Ukraine, now there's this;

    Biden Romania

    Sorry but the PP.com server is not doing well with images tonight... here is the tweet describing Hunter's work in Romania.  Amazing how he always managed to find work in countries where dad was in charge of US policy!  A friggin coincidence for sure.

    https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fpaulsperry_%2Fstatus%2F1318413321796788228&widget=Tweet

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 10:37pm

    #94

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1206

    1

    Beware, this story may get more and more messy...

    Like a good novel, there are twists and turns.  Do we really think Hunter is that dumb to leave a laptop with all that incriminating stuff on it?  Maybe, but maybe not.  Here is another tweet from Paul Sperry... this is the second source from which I have seen this theme sounded.. the first being, well... let's just say an anonymous intelligence source.  For now let's just call it a hint.. but not well corroborated.

    Here is a copy/paste of the tweet from Paul Sperry;

     

    Paul Sperry
    @paulsperry_
    ·

    2h

    BREAKING: Senate looking into poss a spiteful Hunter Biden abandoned laptop to sabotage father's WH bid. Laptop dropped off days before Joe announced 4/2019. Damning photos+docs placed on desktop. Hunter griped used by Pop, forced into rehab,disrespected by Biden spox Bedingfield

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  • Mon, Oct 19, 2020 - 10:47pm

    #95

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2187

    10

    DKIM signatures - Biden Emails - easy process to verify they are real

    As a purely technical matter - and here I'm a subject matter expert - each of the Biden Emails can easily be verified as authentic emails; that they were actually sent on the date specified in the Date: field, to the individuals specified in the To: line, with the subject specified in the Subject:, and the body as specified also, and that no item has been changed in any way since the message was created.  This is done using the DKIM signature that is included in each modern email header.

    Wikileaks explains (below) how this is done.  It really isn't difficult to do. There is even a python library that does the heavy lifting that dates back to 2008.  It would take - maybe - 30 lines of code to suck in an entire email folder, check to see if each message passed the test, and print out any headers that did not.

    Library: https://launchpad.net/dkimpy

    Wikileaks explanation: https://www.wikileaks.org/DKIM-Verification.html

    Wikileaks explains that emails with DKIM signatures are "non-repudiable".

    I found this with 3 minutes of searching on google (actually, startpage).

    I could literally verify all the Biden Emails with about 30 minutes of coding time.

    I could do this for any of the Podesta emails also.

    The cryptography mechanism used to construct and test a DKIM signature is sha256;  the same technology used to secure bitcoin.  This is currently unbreakable.  Claiming a message with a valid DKIM signature has been faked or altered is like claiming bitcoin simply doesn't work.  It is a higher level of proof than fingerprint or DNA evidence.

    You imagine Giuliani didn't get someone like me to go off and write these 30 lines of code?

    I could write the code in 30 minutes.  Probably less.  I write python code all day long.  At my dotcom-inflated rate of $150/hour, that's a $75 task.  I'd probably charge $150 because it would take that long to explain it all to the customer.  [I actually suspect if I looked harder, I'd find a small python program to do this task too.  Maybe even at wikileaks.]

    Do we think that he skipped this step?

    Here's a partial DKIM signature from one of my own emails.  You can see the header fields listed - which are "covered" by the non-repudiable sha256 digital signature, along with the message body.
    DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=info.sos.ca.gov; s=1900; [email protected]; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:x-subscriber:X-Accountcode:List-Unsubscribe: Errors-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:X-ReportingKey:Subject:Date:To: Reply-To:From;

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 3:39am

    Rector

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 381

    6

    Really?

    You are claiming no knowledge of Antifa?

    How transparently absurd.  You support their actions, but don't have the courage of your convictions to say so.

    Noted.

    Rector

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 5:01am

    #97
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    6

    Penguin Will said:

    Gads.... I hope I am not going to kick myself for this but I feel compelled to comment again on this topic. [Honey! I'm arguing on the internet again, but I promise to keep my blood pressure down this time. :p]

    I have to state a couple of things. Just as you cannot be sued for telling the truth I don't think you should be tried for it. Especially as it pertains to exposing illicit activities.... Classified or not. Snowden? Assange? Turn them loose and give them a Medal of Freedom. Far too often 'Top Secret' has been used to hide illegal actions and it needs to stop. We need some muscular whistle blower protections with CIVILIAN OVERSITE. Hell, give those who expose this stuff $1 M USD apiece for helping the cause. Encourage exposure. 90% of top secret classifications are not warranted in my eyes. Stop allowing this to occur. Put a 5 year sunset on all of it!

    Second, after watching the countless, breathless declarations of "The walls are closing in on him!" by these countless, brainless TV pundits I have to say I don't think our media exists in any recognizable form as being useful to the republic. They are proving without doubt that they are biased, partisan, and simple minded. Break these monopolies up and limit their size. Maybe, just maybe, putting these people in a lower tax bracket and trimming their profile a bit might change their perspective on things. Maybe making the knowingly spreading of false information on national TV a level 1 felony would help clean things up a bit as well. (I'm looking at you John Brennan and James Clapper)

    See the conundrum? I could go on for days going back and forth on what I feel are examples of too little freedom of information countered by too much. Especially too much FALSE information. Our system is full of these examples on both sides of this issue. If our political and economic systems were an engine we would have red and yellow lights going off all over the dashboard.

    Want to know why? Because absolutists and idealogues #### things up. Inserting one size fits all to all situations is a recipe for disaster when dealing with fallible human beings. Freedom requires responsibility. And strict discipline, when the sense of duty fails to reign in bad behavior. Allowing the social media sites to form monopolies was a giant mistake. Allowing them to control national dialogue was a sin worthy of the 4th level of hell.

    Hell with it. I could go on for hours and bore anyone reading this to tears. Bottom line is that this is a messy complex situation. It was caused by countless bad decisions, a lot of them motivated by greed and avarice. I don't care what anyone says, cleaning it up will be a monumental task.

    Will

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 6:03am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    10

    Totalitarian system more efficient?

    Someone just posted a Max Kaiser interview with Steven Keene who argues that the repressive governments had a better outcome with Covid. (Example...Thailand ..China...Vietnam). His final argument is that the “libertarian” “Cowboy” model is no longer viable.

    Back to the question of censorship. I suggest that the libertarian model in the US is broken due to censorship. We have a de facto Central Control System running this country. This is due to a media that is complicit with certain factions of government that have taken a back seat control of the system.

    Had the libertarian model functioned properly,  HCQ would have been instituted as a viral replication phase treatment saving hundreds of thousands of lives. So here we have a central command system (liberals plus MSM) with tremendous power, propagating false information about Medicine through the censorship of data and therefore responsible for the bad response to Covid.

    I still choose freedom over living in Socialist or Communist society that relies on censorship. Yes Freedom is messy....but better than being welded into your house by the authorities.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 6:27am

    rleever

    rleever

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    Joined: Apr 02 2020

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    4

    AP story

    This link is to an AP story. The AP is pretty liberal. The third paragraphs is interesting.

    "For the first time in recent memory, the two social media platforms enforced rules against misinformation on a story from a mainstream media publication. The story in question, which has not been confirmed by other publications, cited unverified emails from Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s son that were reportedly discovered by President Donald Trump’s allies. "

    The word 'misinformation' is an opinion not a fact. What exactly does Twitter or Facebook consider MISinformation?

    Not just any mainstream media publication. The N.Y.Post is the oldest newspaper in America and was started by Alexander Hamilton. It also has the 4th largest circulations in America.

    Other publications, for example Fox news and Fox business news, Have verified, 1 the laptop does belong to Hunter, 2 The data & meta-data (ie IPaddresses) are valid and consistent with real email servers. 3. The discoverer and now owner is a visually handicapped computer repair store owner in Delaware. How do you know he's a Trump supporter? 4. The signature on the receipt for the computer has been verified as Hunter Biden's by the FBI. 5 the FBI took possession of the original computer in September or October of 2019.

    Need I read any further in the AP article after finding out so many misleading statements of fact in just 2 sentences?

     

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 7:11am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 201

    1

    Miss Information? What's a Girl Like You Doing In a Place Like This?

    Misinformation is, in a way, story that is too close to ones own biases to be seen for the agenda it is trying to fulfill.

    Like AP is liberal while the NYPost is "old" and started by Alexander Hamilton, rather than right-wing leaning (excellent for lining the bottom of my birdcage, back in the day)

    Leave Pepe out of it!

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 9:52am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    3

    NY Post, the 4th largest newspaper in the US by circulation, still unable to tweet

    I thought this summed up the situation nicely;

    Image files not processing correctly..  here is what the tweet says;

    Sohrab Ahmari
    @SohrabAhmari
    ·

    6h

    Tell me this doesn’t enrage you: Ayatollah Khamenei — the anti-American and anti-Semitic leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran — gets to tweet freely. The NYPost — America’s oldest continuously published newspaper, founded by Alexander Hamilton — is shut out of the platform.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 9:53am

    rleever

    rleever

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    0

    What took you so long?

    subject says it all.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 10:11am

    rleever

    rleever

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    Joined: Apr 02 2020

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    4

    If only it were true.

    The implications of your comment is that all I need do is read the same story in the NY Post And in the Washington Post.  one right leaning the other left.  The problem with that is the media (especially the left imho)  has no compunctions with flat out Lying.  example?  Adam Schiff told us every chance he got on CNN for two years that he had "Irrefutable Proof that Trump was colluding with Russia."  Yet the Mueller Investigation turned up zero proof, and Schiff certainly didn't produce it during the impeachment investigation.

    So without some sort of punishment for publishing falsehoods and lies the information we get is pretty much useless.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 10:43am

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

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    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 110

    7

    what freedom?

    The US is not a "libertarian" or "cowboy" model, except by comparison to the most repressive regimes. We have tax codes and regulations among the most complex in the world. Even free speech is under attack.

    So to what should we ascribe the mishandling of COVID-19 responses? In a mixed economy we can just as easily say it was the decisions by our government leaders. So the comparative outcomes become a debate of our leaders vs theirs.

    The point is: we can't and shouldn't ascribe shortcomings in the US to the US being a free country.  We aren't free, we're mixed, though more free than most; and that mix means we can't assign blame to a pure free market.

    Usually such attacks are meant to justify a push for further erosion of freedom. I'm not comfortable with that.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 10:54am

    rleever

    rleever

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    Posts: 10

    4

    you love censorship? Really?

     
    agitating prop  You love that twitter deleted Trump?  How did you feel when they allowed his supposed tax returns to be published?   Since the IRS has a policy of NOT releasing an individual's taxes to the public those had to be obtained illegally.  Is that ok with you too?  Sounds like you're part of the problem, not the solution.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 11:07am

    rleever

    rleever

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    Joined: Apr 02 2020

    Posts: 10

    2

    fact?

    agit prop.

    "
    agitating prop
    "Nobody would wear a mask."

    that's a fact, not a matter of opinion."

    Sounds like opinion to me.  People who are undergoing Chemo for Cancer treatment wear masks all the time.

    They also socially distance, or try too.

    the 'fact' is, you're just stating an opinion.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 12:55pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 458

    1

    Croney Capitalism in the Information Age

    First, thank you Penguin Will for bringing up how complex this issue is and for highlighting the fact that Assange and Snowdon should be given medals. The ones who have been hounding both of them deserve to be given the same treatment themselves.

    Next, the problems with social media and tech giants arise around consolidation within a relatively new industry.

    I suspect that Amazon, for example, had the backing of letter agencies from the get go and that stalled any effort to hem them in.

    Google, Facebook and now Twitter are all part of a vast surveillance state, that is backed by "the deep state." It's no wonder any legal action by the federal government, can't gain any traction with them. The deep state, or steady state and these agencies are joined at the hip.

    Any politician from either side of the aisle who messes with them, is going to have an uphill battle, as they have the goods on everybody.

    It's important to remember that the letter agencies are pretty numerous and don't always work in concert. The Department of Defense (that's funny, I almost wrote offense) is also in there somewhere, with its own agenda, that may be at odds with CIA, FBI and other agencies.

    The Department of Defense has historical ties with tabloid media, which has likely morphed into a "scandal sheet" online for them-- and under different guises. If any agency is tangentially behind or backing Qanon, it's this one.

    There's a battle going on within the deep state between different agencies. A call to limit the damage the intelligence apparatus of the DOD may be doing by allowing other letter agencies behind Twitter and Facebook, etc... to tamp down hysteria, might work in this particular instance. Will it work in the future in different situations? Probably not. They need to be broken into a thousand pieces.

    Somebody wants a war and they are going to battle for full  control of the white house.

    The best scenario would be to break the social media leviathons up and apply it across the board. It's Clinton who gutted the laws that prevented consolidation in print and televised media.

    There are no heroes here, just a lot of graft, corruption at the top and within the letter agencies.

    I have a problem with atrocity propaganda that causes injury and war and there is not one major media outlet, I can think of that ever addresses these underlying key issues. That is no accident.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 12:59pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 458

    1

    rleever

    Masks and social distancing help to limit the spread of Covid19. That is a fact and other than stating it over and over again, let's just agree to disagree.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 1:02pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 458

    1

    Redneck Engineer

     

    Redneck Engineer,

    The U.S. is a corporate-fascist state with a two party duopoly system. The many paradoxes inherent in the concept of freedom helped to make it that way, ironically. Unless the laws applying to mergers and acquistions start to be applied and with sharp teeth, there is no stopping it.

    The giants within industry, will use the freedom of expression and freedom to conduct business unencumbered by government, to ideologically push their freedom cancelling agendas.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 1:14pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 316

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    Antifa

    I have heard their name but know almost zero about them. So I truly cannot answer the question at this point. Would you prefer that I make something up and pretend to know something I don't?

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 1:24pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 316

    0

    Yoxa, really?

    Yup, really. I've heard the name Antifa but know next to nothing about them, so your answer is helpful.

    They sound like things I try NOT to support, even indirectly.

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 2:40pm

    rleever

    rleever

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    Joined: Apr 02 2020

    Posts: 10

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    fact v opinion

    the New York Post IS old.  I didn't say it was right wing.  My point is that it's not Just a "mainstream media publication".  I suppose I could've added that the emails are Not unverified.  Multiple Fox organizations have verified them several different ways.  including finding them in different streams of Hunter's jailed partner's email.

    what was your point?   And who's Pepe?

     

     

     

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2020 - 3:05pm

    rleever

    rleever

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 02 2020

    Posts: 10

    1

    ? Q

    The DNC has recently been linked to two  murders of Trump Supporters. by antifa members.  Antifa is supported by staff members of both Biden and Harris who have contributed to the fund that bails them out of jail.   Do you think Biden or Harris's staff are the same as Qanon?

    And apparently you haven't kept up with the 'Science' of mask wearing.  The CDC has just said masks do NOT protect you from the (and can we please call it what it is.) the Wuhan China virus.

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