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Introducing our new moderators

Friday, December 26, 2008, 4:38 PM

Let me begin by sharing a couple of recent anecdotes.

A woman, now retired, who ran breastfeeding and child nutrition programs out of the UN for years, was offended by a recent post here that strayed off the reservation and wandered into some pretty uncomfortable territory for her.

An 11-year-old got so taken with the Crash Course that he designed a module on “What is money?” for his class where he opened his pitch by holding up both a dollar bill and a candy bar, stating, “If, by the end of the class, you can tell me how these are identical, you can have them both.” He then proceeded with games using various money forms (cowrie shells, etc) to illustrate the ins and outs of the three characteristics of money. Wow! That’s incredible.

Together, these illustrate the range of people who are stopping by the site. Young and old, left and right, religious and non-religious, retired and working, along with a startling range of nationalities.

I want to be sure that we hold ourselves and this site to the very highest standards to ensure that all feel welcome here. Over the past several weeks the site passed into a new stage of existence and experienced a very normal growth pang around postings and comments. Unfortunately, it is my assessment that some of these posts and comments either created tension or offered content that would exclude participation by some, if not many.

The Crash Course was intentionally framed in politically and religiously neutral language. Many people have set mental reactions to hot-button issues that will preclude further reasoned thought. The message of the Crash Course is too important to lose people as a result of secondary issues.

It’s time for me to share my vision for this site and how comments and posts fit into that.

I hold the following truths to be self-evident:

  • The next twenty years will present massive changes, challenges, and opportunities to our entire planet
  • Community is the essential key to each of our individual future well-being
  • Non-status-quo solutions and approaches are needed, starting now.

The mission

My mission is to spread the message of the Crash Course as widely as possible in order to influence current and future thinking about the Three Es (Economy, Energy, & Environment). We will use the Web, the DVDs, and all other forms of communication to build a critical mass of awareness around the central issues of our day.

Building and maintaining site traffic is an important tactic for achieving this mission. So when I read posts and comments, I filter them through two simple questions:

  1. “Is this post attracting or is it repelling new visitors?”
  2. ”Is there anything in this post that would cause me to hesitate to forward this site to everyone in my address book?”

This past week there were several posts that did not pass these tests for me, and I am taking steps to assure that future posts conform to the identity and mission of this site.

Vision for the site

My vision for the site is that it is a starting place for people who are coming into awareness around the issues of the Three Es. I see the site as a touchdown spot for people who are first coming into contact with this body of information and who deserve as gentle and as welcoming a visit as we can create. Many people will come, learn, stay for a while, and then move on to whatever comes next for them. For these people, this site is a portal.

I specifically designed the course and the site with the intention of not pushing any particular buttons (religious or political) and with the goal of collecting all the best information in one spot to drastically shorten for others the extensive period of inquiry that I went through. I did this because I saw that the Internet was already chock-full of sites with disjointed fragments of the whole story, each largely preaching to their respective choirs. I wanted to reach out to everybody else.

I truly believe that our salvation lies in spreading awareness, building understanding, and then moving to action.

Because of all this, I have absolutely no interest in creating just one more Internet site where flame wars, boorish behavior, bad language, and shock-value posts are considered par for the course.

We don’t have time for that. We should more jealously guard our surplus energy for the things that actually matter. We need to lead by example and hold ourselves to a higher standard.

This is not an issue of “free speech.” That’s a red herring. The issue of free speech refers to government bans on your ability to express yourself in whatever ways you want, whenever you want. Free speech does not apply to private enterprise. It never has, nor should it.

Everybody here is perfectly free at any time to start their own site or blog and say whatever they want, whenever they want.

New Moderators

In response, we are now adding two formal moderators for the site. They have my full blessing to remove posts and even posters that violate the site posting guidelines and rules. I expect them to do a great job and I expect that mistakes will be made. In both cases, they have my full support. Together we will find just the right approaches, the right words, and the right compassionate guidance to assure that this site becomes an effective voice for a better future.

This is not an attempt to stifle intellectual dissent in any form, but rather an attempt to assure that we do not compromise the mission of reaching as many people as possible over the next year. If we trigger a corporate firewall we could lose hundreds of people. If we trigger a country firewall we could lose millions.

This site, especially the forum area, is user generated - a product of the community. Being such, we ask that if you come across something that you think deserves the moderators' attention, that you click on the alert moderator button to flag the post.

As always, your feedback, advice, and suggestions will be carefully considered in this and all future matters.

Please join me in welcoming our new volunteer moderators, John and Jason. You may occasionally see posts from them on the site under their user names, "Moderator Jason" and "Moderator John." 

Thank you for joining me in making this site welcoming and comfortable for anyone who might be reading, so that we can effectively and accessibly share the Crash Course message with everyone who seeks it.

Best,
Chris Martenson

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54 Comments

SamLinder's picture
SamLinder
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 10 2008
Posts: 1499
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Great news, Chris.

I'm pleased to see the approach you are taking. I too have been concerned about some of the posts getting "out of hand" and appreciate your proactive stance in ensuring the forums are for reasoned, logical discourse and not for any political or religious agenda.

 

Welcome aboard John and Jason!

Sam....

 

wdstk46's picture
wdstk46
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 17 2008
Posts: 59
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Chris,

Let me add my approval of your vision and direction.  This is an excellent move.  I'd also like to welcome John and Jason.  I'm sure they will be a wonderful addition to our community.  

Jim Thompson 

cat233's picture
cat233
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 20 2008
Posts: 575
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Chris,

 Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!  Welcome Jason and John!

Cat 

 

maveri's picture
maveri
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 20 2008
Posts: 159
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Excellent.

I'm an advocate for decent moderation (I posted on this before in another thread) as proper moderation stops fragmentation and helps a site grow. Nice to see it implemented.

On the topic of money/crash course, I couple the crash course with the 'Money as Debt' video as well - I find this video fills in a lot of how the money system came into being and by extrapolation, why it's breaking.

There are plenty of google links but here's one.

i.e. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

One guy at work who I gave the money as debt video to was surprised - he's traded for years and is quite knowldegable on financial matters. Before I even showed him the Crash Course, he said that things were on the way down - trouble is he thought it would bounce back so he got burnt when he tried to jump back in again.

After showing him money as debt and the crash course, he now realises that the problem is much much much bigger than what he thought - he is battoning down the hatches so to speak for what's coming.

When you talk to people they are sooooo unaware of anything beyond the financials being an issue - sad really.

:-)

Downrange's picture
Downrange
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 13 2008
Posts: 62
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Congratulations on what I think is a course well-navigated.  Finding a balance between a manageable open public forum of ideas and "anything goes" is a particularly thorny challenge for internet sites, and I'm not surprised to see Chris take a measured approach that mirrors that taken in the superb, and politically neutral, Crash Course.  I personally have hesitated to participate much in the open forums here for fear of getting dragged into polemics.  I agree our time is better spent trying to gain consensus and understanding of the important things we really CAN all agree upon, plus fiery debate and partisanship are already available most anywhere on the 'net for those who enjoy such sport.  I'm looking forward to the growth of the forum and remain hopeful that participants will focus on the message of the Crash Course, which is more than sufficient to frame our efforts here.

DR

Nichoman's picture
Nichoman
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2008
Posts: 422
Re: Pursuance Of Chris Martenson Truths and Vision
Chris Martenson wrote:

The crash course was intentionally framed in politically and religiously neutral language. Many people have set mental reactions to hot-button issues that will preclude further reasoned thought. The message of the crash course is too important to lose people as a result of secondary issues.

It’s time for me to share my vision for this site and how comments and posts fit into that.

I hold the following truths to be self-evident:

  • The next twenty years will present massive changes, challenges, and opportunities to our entire planet
  • Community is the essential key to each of our individual future well-being
  • Non-status-quo solutions and approaches are needed, starting now.

 

What keeps me coming back to this web site beyond the Crash Course are Chris M's comments. He has again wisely outlined above striving for open minded problem solving.  Plus his understandable, yet compelling comments in his posts.

 

Couple of thoughts and questions for readers using Chris's points 2 and 3 above...

  1. Incentivize And Reward Local Community Service. Has anyone heard of at local level, having local tax payers (and businesses) reduce a percentage of their tax basis (property, local) by working "X" amount of hours using their talents/labor to help each other and work on local projects?   Always found innovation, incentives, equitable recognition and rewards key to successful organizations and communities.    People/businesses could reduce a percentage of taxes locally while providing labor and expertise to the local community.    Seen something like this in military experience overseas in Asia (maybe a reason...for increased growth certain places).  Why wouldn't something like this work and is it an example to explore/consider?  
  2. Improved Governance. Numerous excellent quotations have been cited here and over the internet of our founding fathers and how our government has strayed from key principles. Doesn't the data from almost every government program show reduced results and increased inefficiencies...thus increased budgets in almost everything government is involved in?  I could give examples about Education, Health Care, Energy and so on, but postulate this is self evident. Doesn't this indicate our governance system(s) is lost beyond just lack of accountability and transparency?    An accepted view is our governance system is wedded to special interests and unable to learn and improve?   If the above is agreed, as Chris broadly references in the Crash Course, plus Chris 3 points above, add his numerous insightful posts on the handling of unraveling financial crisis,  poor governance is part of the problem.  Why don't we try and address this wisely?   There are ideas out there to more empower the people to hold our elected officials and government more accountable ?

My view is how we pursue points 2 and 3 long term are most important to each of our daily lives.  

 

Any Thoughts?   Right track...wrong track?

 

Nichoman 

 

Moderator Jason's picture
Moderator Jason
Status: Moderator (Offline)
Joined: Dec 23 2008
Posts: 98
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Hello everybody,

It's a pleasure to be here as a moderator, although I've been around for some time.  I'd like you all to know that I'll be doing my best, in very close cooperation with Chris and the rest of the team, to protect the single most important mission of this site: increasing public awareness and promoting open discourse on the issues relavent to the Crash Course while ensuring that the website is not shut out as a result of our own missteps. 

We moderators will be mostly in the background, and hopefully you won't see too much of us. 

Both John and I have opinions of our own to express, and you can be assured that we will jealously guard the ability of members to discuss, disagree, and debate openly on all of the topics in the Crash Course, provided that such intercourse is done intelligently and respectfully.

If you believe that there is a post which violates the website's rules of use, flag it using the "alert moderator" button, and it will be looked at.  If you ever have questions or comments for me, always feel free to email me using the button next to my name.

Sincerely,

Jason

Roysyl's picture
Roysyl
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 21 2008
Posts: 6
Re: 3 E's

What are the three E's ?

jrf29's picture
jrf29
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 18 2008
Posts: 453
Re: 3 E's
Roysyl wrote:

What are the three E's ?

  Energy, the Economy, and Environment (natural resources), as discussed in the Crash Course.   Perhaps you ought to watch it; it's quite well done.

mainecooncat's picture
mainecooncat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 7 2008
Posts: 488
Re: 3 E's

Economy

Energy

Environment

grl's picture
grl
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 30 2008
Posts: 188
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Thank you Chris! I know I was getting somewhat uncomfortable with some of the comments and I did express that in an email to your website, very promptly and respectfully replied to by Becca and Michelle. I look forward to constructive and enlightening conversation - this is a site where people should come to learn.

dps's picture
dps
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 27 2008
Posts: 442
Re: Introducing our new moderators

@Nichoman

I'm trying to address the issues you raise by bringing the Crash Course to my local officials.  You can read about my efforts in the VIP forum in the brigade area.  I welcome your ideas.  To my knowledge I am the only person pursuing this avenue thus far, however, I hope to blaze a path for others as I go.

Don

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: 3 E's
Roysyl wrote:

What are the three E's ?

PLEASE Roysyl.......  DO the Crash Course, and you will find out!

It has occured to me that there might be a lot of posters who have either NOT done the CC, or perhaps not the entire course.  Before you post, please view the course.  This site is totally based on the contents of the CC, and without knowing its contents, all you are doing is making some of us experienced Crash Artists Wink do more work than we should have to simply to explain stuff you ought to already be aware of.... 

Mike 

bsm20's picture
bsm20
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 8 2008
Posts: 22
Re: Introducing our new moderators

This is not an attempt to stifle intellectual dissent in any form, but
rather an attempt to assure that we do not compromise the mission of
reaching as many people as possible over the next year.

Chris,

I think that good moderation is often the most important element of the best discussion sites.  The ability to balance honest, diverse opinions, respectfully presented, while whittling out the belligerent and offensive, offers the community the greatest chance to further discussion and understanding.   From the above comment, I assume that you share this view.

I look forward to this site becoming even more effective in promoting a greater understanding of these important issues, and an ever greater asset in arriving at responses that may hopefully offer the best chance for finding our most positive (or least painful) path forward.

Regards,

Brian

Will's picture
Will
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 27 2008
Posts: 81
Re: Introducing our new moderators

I applaud Chris for reminding us all that the issues and challenges facing us are far too important to allow this website community to devolve into the typical partisan political bickering or immature trash talk that is so common on the Internet.  That kind of behavior amongst our leaders and citizens is part of the problem that has lead us to where we are and we need to do better going forward.  One of the keys to finding real solutions to our challenges is that we all try harder than ever to sincerely listen to other points of view and respectully agree to disagree where necessary.  This is not a game that we can afford to lose, but lose we will if too many of us fail to communicate with each other in a responsible, respectful and honorable manner.

I recommend that Chris's announcement (or some version of it) be posted prominently on the site and forums so that newcomers to this community have an opportunity to understand that "this time it's REALLY different" regarding  the Crash Course community and our high standards of conduct...

Happy Holidays to all, and I sincerely hope that 2009 becomes known as the year that the Crash Course concepts found their way into a significant portion of the public awareness, reached critical mass, and helped create a revolutionary chain reaction for positive change in our fragile, precious world...

Roysyl's picture
Roysyl
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 21 2008
Posts: 6
Re: 3 E's

I wish I was gifted with the ability to be able to discern what people have or have not read, especially with all the material on the Internet. The Crash Course was just starting when I became a member, although I had been reading Chris for over a year before he started this site. Zelots usually assume there is only one true word and any deviation is blasthemy. I resent your selfrighetous implication.

Pandabonium's picture
Pandabonium
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 30 2008
Posts: 87
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Hello John and Jason.  I welcome this effort to keep the site focused, open, and growing.  Chris is spot on in his comments  - as usual - and this response is very well reasoned and balanced.

Thank you.

Hanover_Fist's picture
Hanover_Fist
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Joined: Dec 26 2008
Posts: 10
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Every good message board need a moderator.

jrf29's picture
jrf29
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 18 2008
Posts: 453
Re: 3 E's
Roysyl wrote:

I wish I was gifted with the ability to be able to discern what people have or have not read, especially with all the material on the Internet. The Crash Course was just starting when I became a member, although I had been reading Chris for over a year before he started this site. Zelots usually assume there is only one true word and any deviation is blasthemy. I resent your selfrighetous implication.

Whoa!  Are you trying to test the new moderation system, or what?  There's no need for name-calling.  Damnthematrix is correct inasmuch as much of the discussion on this site is centered around the material of the Crash Course, and that if you're not familiar with that material (regardless of how well-versed you are on the subject in general) then it will be difficult to maintain a discussion.  Case in point:

Quote:

What are the Three Es?

But I don't think anybody implied that the Crash Course is the one true path to wisdom and enlightenment, just that it is something well for a member to have watched, not so they can praise it as gospel, but only so they will be prepared to discuss it, even to criticize it.  So there's no need to take offense.

switters's picture
switters
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 19 2008
Posts: 744
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Welcome and thank you to both Jason and John for taking on this important job, and thanks to Chris for making it happen.  I think this is a necessary step to ensure the integrity of this site and the manifestation of Chris's vision.

Happy New Year everyone.

Rob Z's picture
Rob Z
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 30 2008
Posts: 49
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Chris, thank you for sharing your knowledge & wisdom through this Web Site and the "Crash Course" - Your vision and goals for the site are outstanding and the "Moderators" are certainly needed as you grow and reach out to more people. I found the Crash Course so interesting and educational I purchased a box of 30 CD's and gave them to my friends & family for Christmas. 

G's picture
G
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 3 2008
Posts: 37
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Chris,

This site already triggers many corporate firewalls, including where I work. The words 'blog' 'forum' etc are words that site filters look for and many firewalls will block those sites automatically.
As an internet host myself, I can assure you that you probably are not going to circumvent those sites that now block your domain without changing your domain and
removing key words such as those I mentioned above.

Just some thoughts,
G

RussB's picture
RussB
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
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Posts: 101
Re: Introducing our new moderators

I hope I don't come off as too smug if I point this out. 

All this fear and pussy-footing around corporate and state firewalls, and the self-censorship these enforce, proves that we who were skeptical right from the start regarding how the internet was supposedly going to be a vehicle of freedom and "democracy" and decentralization, were 100% right.

As I always said, technology and wealth are intrinsically totalitarian.

john50's picture
john50
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 2 2008
Posts: 74
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Glad to hear of this change, it was overdue. I found the site had turned contentious and dominated by a few, so I left. I still love the Crash Course, but not an un-moderated forum. Smile

Moderator John's picture
Moderator John
Status: Moderator (Offline)
Joined: Dec 26 2008
Posts: 11
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Hello everyone, and thanks for such a welcome reception.

As Jason said, you hopefully won't see or hear too much from us.

That being said, we're dedicated to promoting a respectful and thoughtful environment. This means that were a first-timer to visit the forums, he/she ought to enter an atmosphere that he/she would describe as intelligent, polite, and civil - not mean, aggressive, and rude.

This may mean that during a heated discussion, some posters would be wise to take a look at the forum rules and guidelines while considering a response. A good general rule isn't "can I come up with an excuse to defend the posting of this response?", but rather "is there any way this response could be found in violation of one or more of the rules?"

Again, if you notice anything you find objectionable, please flag the post and explain why. There is a lot to moderate, but we're confident that with the support of the community, this can be done efficiently and without problems.

It's a real honor to be able to give back to this community that has provided so much to me personally over the past few months. Like Jason, I too am open to any questions, comments, suggestions - feel free to e-mail me whenever, at [email protected] (or by clicking the e-mail button below my name).

Sincerely,

 John

joe jackson's picture
joe jackson
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Posts: 13
Re: Introducing our new moderators

I suppose some information is not oppropriate for children.  Jesus said suffer the little children to come to me not that he could learn from them but that they could learn from him.  With imperfrct adults perhaps the opposite is true. I hope this does not insult the sensibilities of anyone.  Even my wife does not like me spending time at this site. 

Joe

briseman's picture
briseman
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 3 2008
Posts: 3
Re: Introducing our new moderators

This is excellent Chris.

I am actually interested in reading through the posts now and will probably dedicate time to doing this.

After years of unpleasant experience with online "communities" I was beginning to think that the term was an oxymoron. This may change my sentiment and revive my hope in the positive potential for the internet.

Best,

 Ben

joe2baba's picture
joe2baba
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Joined: Jun 17 2008
Posts: 807
Re: Introducing our new moderators

hi chris, jason and john

i dont know if this will make it to the site. but it does not really matter to me

i first became aware  of this site last winter after a friend sent me the article the end of money. i found it a remarkable piece of work. i thereupon searched the internet for this guy called chris martenson and found this site. i have been here everyday since then. ( i did not start posting until june. since then i have posted way more than i probably should have.)

the crash course is an amazing peice of work not because it  presents very much new information but because it is a brilliant synthesis of the three e's. my own journey into these issues started in the sixties. i was part of the back to the land movement of the seventies. (one interesting story....when we were looking for our land in 74 we came across a guy who was way ahead of the curve. he would only take gold in exchange and he was moving to alaska to get off the grid........i often wonder about him). we could see the environmental and energy parts of the equation very well but i was and still am to this day easily bored with the economy. of course i have had to force myself to learn more about it and to put it all together.

i have learned a lot here not just from the crash course but from the others on the site who have made valuable contributions. i have really appreciated the vigourous debates on a wide range of subjects. i have appreciated the chaos as a necessary step in building community.

i recommended this site to hundreds of people and there is a link on my blog. i found that most people i steered to the site did not visit. because of this i organized a showing for the public in two parts. with very little time or advertising we had 25 people show up for it. with my background in community building my motive was to get a community started to deal with strategies and solutions to what we are likely to be experiencing.

we currently have a group of 17 and will be having our second meeting on the 4th of jan.

i view the crash course as an integral tool in my efforts. it is very easy to organize around it.

in our group there were two things that struck me from peoples response. first and foremost was that there were no concrete solutions, no game plan and in some cases it was not clear especially in terms of debt how this really mattered. one person said that chapter 20 was anticlimactic and that chris left us hanging.

the other point which was raised was that it was devoid of sprituality. not religion but spirituality. there was some discussion that it was devoid of any political ideas to solve the problems.

i think the addendum of the 6 stages of awareness was very much on topic and timely in getting an understanding of where we are as not only citizens but as humans. i have found it useful to apply that understanding in many areas of my life as i have for many years. i think it would be useful to keep that in mind when deleting posts

i certainly see in the not too distant future tv and radio interviews with chris promoting the crash course. maybe even a new york times bestsller. i certainly hope that many more people get awakened to the issues we face. i never was am not and never will be a good soldier. i have used the crash course to organize my community. i have used this site to expand the range of my understanding and to get a feel for where others might be. i have had my assumptions challenged and hope that i have been able to challenge some others assumptions as well. i am  a pragmatist in many ways and for that reason i think there is a gaping hole in the idea that we should not engage in political dialog on this site. obviously  the three  e's are intertwined but i find it hard to disentangle politics from the three. paul hawken in eco commerce made a very good point by stating that if you want to get things done on a large scale the two biggest mechanisms to do that with are government and business.

it is obvious that public policy is a huge factor in how and why we got here. leaving politics out of the mix is having an   800# gorilla in the room we all ignore.  political parties and individual politicians with dogmatic ideas of government are part of the problem and part of the solution.

my posts tend to be on the social implications of what we are experiencing. i have attempted to bring some humor, wit, irony, satire, and above all sarcasm to the discussion. i have probably pushed a few buttons and maybe offended some folks along the way. i hope that thru that at least a few have looked at there own assumptions. i hope i have been able to bring some humanity to the crash course and the discussions here. i have found in both that people tend to get lost in all the charts and stats. real people are being and will be affected by religous beliefs and political dogma when applied to government policy.

i would say that i have not posted anything i would hesitate to say at my own dinner table or that i would not allow my daughter to hear. as near as  i can tell from my reading of the guidelines that i have violated any of them. i have seen some of the issues around posting exacerbated by a  lack of clarity and a true mission statement for the site. this has recently been addressed and now it is up to each of us to work around that.

i dont know how many posts i have made but we all probably could have done with out 99% of them.

in the last week i have had one forum topic heading redone no problem here on that. and one forum topic deleted. the deleted one was taken to be politically incorrect for this site. it may have been offensive to some of a particular party affiliation or some particular political science dogma. i cant really say but i ws told that the work of this site is too important to have that posted. that is an opinion , a fact and a belief.

so at this point i do not know what of value i have to contribute to the dialog here. i will take up the invitation to find someplace else that more closely aligns with my beliefs, opinions and facts. i wil still drop in to see what is new on the permaculture thread and a few other things as well and i will treasure my connections i have made on this site. it is truly a great group of folks and a real tribute to the good doctor.

it is funny that about a month ago i got an email from krogoth saying that my posts would soon be deleted.

his prescience was quite on the money.

joe2baba aka joe2baba

 

 

 

mainecooncat's picture
mainecooncat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 7 2008
Posts: 488
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Hi Joe2,

Amen.

You made so many good points I only have time to single out one:

"I have learned a lot here not just from the crash course but from the others on the site who have made valuable contributions. i have really appreciated the vigourous debates on a wide range of subjects. i have appreciated the chaos as a necessary step in building community."

This gets a double amen.

I have always loved the journal-like qualities and introspectiveness of your posts, Joe2. For me they contain what so many others lack: honesty and vulnerability.

I hope I will continue to enjoy them.

You know, Joe2, perhaps the reason so many of us as children are told not to bring up politics and religion is because the incredibly meaningful, cathartic, painful, and sometimes chaotic discussions that frequently result may actually accomplish something in the end. We may lose our identity or be forced to re-identify. After all, apolitical is mearly another political stance masquerading as if it is not. The "moderate" is as betrothed to ideas as any other.

mainecooncat's picture
mainecooncat
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Joined: Sep 7 2008
Posts: 488
Re: Introducing our new moderators
briseman wrote:

I am actually interested in reading through the posts now and will probably dedicate time to doing this.

After years of unpleasant experience with online "communities" I was beginning to think that the term was an oxymoron. This may change my sentiment and revive my hope in the positive potential for the internet.

I consider this post offensive, ignorant, and in direct violation of the spirit of this website -- a spirit, I should point out, that has always existed due to the overall thoughtfulness and articulateness of those who have been drawn here over the last several months.

I implore readers and posters to really think about the impact, implications, and inferences of what they read and write, especially so when we express ourselves through common phrases and cliches. Common phrases and cliches are substitutions for original and creative thought.

So when someone sarcastically writes: "I am actually interested in reading through the posts now...", this means that up until the present moment they had no interest in reading through the posts because they were too something -- too poorly written, too uninteresting, too boring, too passionate, too beneath them, too political, too religious, too rude, too polite. Whatever, it really doesn't matter.

My response: Really? Is that what you really mean?

That there was nothing, up until this point, discussed on this website's forums that were compelling or interesting enough for you to spend your time reading or participating in?

I consider that an insult to not only Chris -- who has himself participated in many of these -- and to myself but to the multitude of people who have spent hours posting articulate, polite, and thoughtful posts on this website for months.

In fact, it is these very discussions -- ones that you sarcastically dismiss as beneath you in the sense that they don't even warrant your attention -- that have drawn so many people to this site and its various messages. Many first timers to these discussions have commented on their civility and uniqueness -- their thoroughness and attention to detail.

Regarding your "hope in the positive potential of the Internet," I would think that the very existence of this website, its aforementioned discussions, and its expanding popularity would have already buoyed that desire.

Now I'm not saying that every single thread ever documented on this website is perfect, enlightening, or even worth reading. However, the vast majority are and have been.

My hope is that the writer of these words will become more open minded regarding the content of the forums and more thoughtful when expressing themselves. After all this is the very purpose of the changes they are applauding.

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 465
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Chris, Jason and John,

Thank you for the your efforts to make this an even better website. I applaud and support your actions.

As regards a couple of the posts on this thread which have referred to  the removal of political and religious content I would like to add my perception of what that means to this site. Please correct my comments if they do not align with your thinking.

The subject of politics as it pertains to the political will of a person currently either holding office, a candidate or simply an individual expressing a political viewpoint  is less the issue than the negative dialogue that can sometimes occur when people have differing viewpoints. Posts which reflect an individuals viewpoint about a political subject or person even if stated forcefully etc. is not the target of what may be removed but rather comments which attack, harm or demean others because of a viewpoint they hold is the problem trying to be solved here.

I would expect to continue to see posts on this site which challenge religious or political ideologies as they pertain to the crash course and the massive change which we will be experiencing. The moderators would simply (or maybe more difficultly!) be challenging all to express their viewpoints clearly and without the need to offend other posters or visitors. 

I think the new changes to the site will challenge everyone to improve the level of communication and that can only be a good thing. We will need those skills to navigate the course ahead. And we will in many cases need to challenge politics, politicians and religion and religious leaders as change ocurrs and new ideas meet traditional status quo ideals. 

Coop

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 465
Re: Chris Martenson Truths and Vision - presenting to the public

Nichoman and dps,

Thanks for your posts. I think we may need a special forum heading for this subject in the future. That said I have not visited the Martenson Brigade  portion to see if a thread exists there  si will check it out.

Great ideas Nichoman. I had given a CC DVD to one of my county board of supervisiors before Christmas. I will be following up with all members of the board and our city council members right after the first of the year. Once we get over the initial dissemination of the CC materials we will need to move into solutions to maintain momentum. 

I'm looking forward to sharing my experiences with others doing the same.

Coop

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Thank you Chris.

I was an admin on another site. When you relax the rules it gets out of hand FAST and even I was sucked into it. 

Once the genie was let out of the bottle, there was no turning back. 

I still frequent the site (with full cyber-armor) but I really like the MATURITY and no-nonsense, no tolerance rules of decorum and decent behavior of this site. 

I plan on hanging around. :)

 

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 465
Re: Introducing our new moderators
mainecooncat wrote:
briseman wrote:

I am actually interested in reading through the posts now and will probably dedicate time to doing this.

After years of unpleasant experience with online "communities" I was beginning to think that the term was an oxymoron. This may change my sentiment and revive my hope in the positive potential for the internet.

I consider this post offensive, ignorant, and in direct violation of the spirit of this website -- a spirit, I should point out, that has always existed due to the overall thoughtfulness and articulateness of those who have been drawn here over the last several months.

I implore readers and posters to really think about the impact, implications, and inferences of what they read and write, especially so when we express ourselves through common phrases and cliches. Common phrases and cliches are substitutions for original and creative thought.

So when someone sarcastically writes: "I am actually interested in reading through the posts now...", this means that up until the present moment they had no interest in reading through the posts because they were too something -- too poorly written, too uninteresting, too boring, too passionate, too beneath them, too political, too religious, too rude, too polite. Whatever, it really doesn't matter.

Jeeze Maincooncat,

I didn't get that at all from brisemans post. I thought his response was sincere and not sarcastic at all. And he certainly didn't say or imply the balance of the things  you mentioned in the bottom paragraph above. Am I missingsomething here?

That said, I have appreciated your posts on this site. I am just surprised at your response above. So that's my 2 cents worth. Have a good weekend!

Coop

cat233's picture
cat233
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 20 2008
Posts: 575
Re: Introducing our new moderators
ckessel wrote:

Chris, Jason and John,

Thank you for the your efforts to make this an even better website. I applaud and support your actions.

As regards a couple of the posts on this thread which have referred to  the removal of political and religious content I would like to add my perception of what that means to this site. Please correct my comments if they do not align with your thinking.

The subject of politics as it pertains to the political will of a person currently either holding office, a candidate or simply an individual expressing a political viewpoint  is less the issue than the negative dialogue that can sometimes occur when people have differing viewpoints. Posts which reflect an individuals viewpoint about a political subject or person even if stated forcefully etc. is not the target of what may be removed but rather comments which attack, harm or demean others because of a viewpoint they hold is the problem trying to be solved here.

I would expect to continue to see posts on this site which challenge religious or political ideologies as they pertain to the crash course and the massive change which we will be experiencing. The moderators would simply (or maybe more difficultly!) be challenging all to express their viewpoints clearly and without the need to offend other posters or visitors. 

I think the new changes to the site will challenge everyone to improve the level of communication and that can only be a good thing. We will need those skills to navigate the course ahead. And we will in many cases need to challenge politics, politicians and religion and religious leaders as change ocurrs and new ideas meet traditional status quo ideals. 

Coop

Thank you Coop... Well said!

Cat 

 

Linda K's picture
Linda K
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 23 2008
Posts: 56
Re: Introducing our new moderators

It seems most of my posts open with a thank you. To be consistant - "Thank you again Chris". Also Jason and John.

I'm all for following the well constructed argument but some pitfalls of a
round table discussion where you're not looking anyone in the eye were
being played out here on an incressingly frequent basis. Giving the
link for the Crash Course now required a warning label - "forums may be
hazerdous."

Chris, your commitment to getting out the message of the 3Es is
commendable and amazing. I'm still surprised when revisiting the Course
and reading your posts that you have found this way to communicate so
much information in a way that has a chance of reaching a large
audience. Also you are tough enough to put your own name, reputation,
finances, and photo behind it. On top of that your there's the humility and all around humanness, which comes across most in your live intervies. Glad you're defending your electonic turf.

Will - good idea about making some standards of conduct prominent.

joe2baba - don't go. Surely you can't be too upset by an all caps vs.
lower case issue - such a professed Ozark bumpkin as yourself. As for
having posts deleted - don't know about that one. If it was of the Dec.
24th variety I don't remember your comments being over the top. You're always upfront and pretty darn refreshing with
what you have to say. It was the emergence of some
"shadow" figures that had me nervous about what I would find here this
morning. When I logged off the site Christmas eve I was pretty distressed by the descent into personal attacks.

A last comment about being inclusive in getting the message of the Crash Course out. There's been several mentions of wives not getting their husbands commitment to this site. Chris, it's curious to me that you mention your wife often but I've
never seen her own comments. "Hello" to behind the scenes Becca. At the risk of sounding sexist, I would suggest to those more at home with the scientific approach to problem solving to not be too quick to dismiss a poster that admits to feelings or proposes an idea that's subjective. Just sayin'.

On to a better year.

mainecooncat's picture
mainecooncat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 7 2008
Posts: 488
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Hi Coop,

Thanks for your response and compliments.

What I’m attempting to say (and perhaps I did a poor job of it judging by your surprise) is that the poster said essentially that nothing written on all of the forums up until this time has been worth reading. The list I give of too this or too that is speculative as I don’t know why they haven’t thought the discussions on this web site worth their time – they don’t say. They only say that they haven’t been worth their time as indicated by the fact that they "are actually interested in reading through the posts now." This means that in the past they haven’t been interested in reading through the posts.

The inclusion of the word actually makes it sarcastic and dismissive for me, and the non-inclusion of subtlety makes it sloppy for me – their hasn’t been at least one forum actually interesting up until this point? These sentiments are too absolutist.

For example, I would submit a more proper way (following with the guidelines and intended spirit of the site) to express what the poster (I think) was attempting to say to be the following:

"Some of the forum discussions I’ve read on this site have tended to be counterproductive because of their tenor and, therefore, I’ve not bothered to read them in their entirety. I hope the new emphasis on constructive dialogue will alleviate this problem."

But they didn’t say this, and what they said I found insulting to Chris, myself and all of the other posters (the overwhelming majority by the way) who have posted thoughtfully and maturely. To say that nothing we’ve written has actually been interesting is insulting and, obviously, just plain wrong.

I also wanted to point out that counterproductive discussion just doesn’t take the form of obscenity laced diatribes and personal attacks, it can take the form of Victorian era-type, couched barbs.

Lastly, I don’t think the person intended to say what I believe their words clearly imply. I felt compelled to point it out though because of the irony of its appearance in a thread about the site’s new thrust toward politeness and civility. Just think about it from my perspective, I read Chris’ comments and then follow onto the reader posts and read someone saying that maybe now the posts will finally be worth reading.

dps's picture
dps
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 27 2008
Posts: 442
Re: Chris Martenson Truths and Vision - presenting to the ...

Coop,

Check out this forum in the brigade section:

VIP & Media Promotion

[Ed.: The Brigade Forum is only accessible to Martenson Brigade members. If you'd like to learn more and join us in these efforts, please consider joining the Brigade.  More information can be found here.]

jrf29's picture
jrf29
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 18 2008
Posts: 453
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Maincooncat,

I think it is unlikely that briseman was intending to insult you personally.  Don't look so closely for opportunites to be offended and insulted.   Consider that someone who takes offense easily, and aggressively professes that offendedness, is almost as certain to catalyze an argument as a person who intentionally offends others.  Either way, the result is equally counterproductive.

Quote:

what they said I found insulting to Chris, myself and all of the other
posters (the overwhelming majority by the way) who have posted
thoughtfully and maturely

Isn't it rather presumptuous to be offended on behalf of Chris, and most everybody else?  Doesn't that in fact equate to professing to be a representative of their interests?  And by what license do you do this?

But what is offendedness, after all?  I have a difficult time with the definition.  I think it means, "I don't like what you're saying, and therefore I don't want to hear you say it."  This, combined with a conception that an individual is somehow
personally responsible for the way others react to what they say, can
result in bitter recriminations.  But if everybody simply accepted that
other people are entitled to their ideas, and that being "offended" is one's own personal emotional problem, things might go more smoothly. 

Everybody has an absolute personal responsibility to be civil, and to
abide by standards of verbal expression which are gentlemanly (or
ladylike, as the case may be).  That is everbody's own job.  However everybody is also entitled to their opinion, and they are certainly not required to defend that opinion to anybody else.  If the opinion itself is vulgar or profane, or otherwise inappropriate for this venue, then it should be removed.  Otherwise, it is an opinion just like yours.

Some people use the device of being "offended" as a weapon to force others to conform to their own way of seeing things.  That is very unfortunate. 

If we all adopt the above method of intercourse, the "you have your opinion and I have mine" method, then things might run more smoothly.  Remember, everybody has a right to their opinion, but not everybody's opinion is right.  But to attack a person for merely expressing their opinion, under the justification of being "offended", well, that is just counterproductive, I think.

Futuo's picture
Futuo
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 15 2008
Posts: 155
Re: Introducing our new moderators

jrf29, I agree with you completely. Perhaps you were a little harsh on maine, but your main (pun intended) point is valid. Clearly, by stating that he will now read the posts, briseman's previous problem was the lack of moderation, and what that resulted in (ad hominems, obscenities, etc...). I find the implication of his post to be quite clear: since the advent of moderators will lead to his participation, and their absence caused his disinterest, it can be reasonably inferred that the actions the moderators take are what attracts him, i.e. the enforcement of the posting rules, censoring of inappropriate posts, etc... This establishes that what kept him away wasn't the content contributed by Chris, you, me, or any other particular member, so much as the crap around it.

An illustration. 

Pre-moderators: intelligent discussion and ideas + ad hominems, obscenities, etc...

Post-moderators: intelligent discussion

He prefers the latter, not the former. I am not offended by it - in fact, the purpose of the moderators is to attract more people, and retain new participants. Personally, I think his post is "case-in-point" justification for the employment of moderators in the first place. 

I also feel that were he to come back and read all of this, while maybe not "offended", he would probably find it very unattractive and off-putting. Were that my 3rd post, and someone responded in a similar manner, I would probably think to myself "Wow, how are we supposed to accomplish anything done or establish any sense of community when a new member like me immediately has his post ripped apart and treated like this. I won't be coming back here, thank you very much." Chris says we want to foster a welcoming environment. That may mean we all have to behave differently than we would on other forums, or in real life.

Everyone needs to calm down, not read into things too much, turn the other cheek, etc... That's what being civil is all about - assuming your fellow community-members have reasonable, polite intentions, so that you do not take things personally. 

For example, even if you were and are legitimately offended by briseman's post, would the civil and polite course of action not be to ask for clarification? Perhaps something like "Hey Briseman, your language seemed a little rude...were you suggesting that blah blah blah", as opposed to jumping to the conclusion that a statement was purposefully sarcastic, and what that means for all of us. 

Without nonverbal queues, without tone of voice, facial expressions, etc, it is possible to pick up on non-existant inferences, and to miss subtle nuances. Because of this, I think it best to assume everyone has good intentions behind their posts. If they really are a vile, discordant, and intentionally disruptive individual, they will make that known clearly as time progresses. 

Maine, this is nothing against you personally. It's just an example...I really like [most of] your posts, and find myself largely in agreement with most of your claims and advocacies. What i've said here isn't specific to this situation...it's just that this situation is readily available, and I personally believe that you can handle it. This is not meant to be offensive, merely to illustrate a point. I hope that even if you don't like it, you will take it for what it is and what it is meant to be. 

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 465
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Hi Mainecooncat,

I do understand how the post could seem that way. Let's hope it wasn't but that said, your comments and viewpoints on this site are valuable to me. (I would hope that Joe2 and krogoth can also find a way to continue)

I have never posted on websites before so I didn't really know what to expect when I started here ...... whether I would get my a**  chewed off or simply ridiculed into submission!!  (Fortunately Hewittr properly broke me in ! ) Happily I found neither but I know from talking with others in my area that they have some pretty major trepidations about venturing forth an opinion.  In many ways I think that the high quality of information on this site can also be intimidating to folks who may feel they have nothing to offer.

Personally I look forward this upcomong year to providing more specific data to contribute to this forum other than just commenting on what others such as yourself, Joe2, Matrix, Nichoman and the many others too numerous too mention have researched and posted.

Happy New Year to all and may your gold reserves expand!!

Coop

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5568
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Joe2,

In my total 'career' here,  have deleted five posts (JMCSwan [1], Krogoth [1] and jbd123 [3] under various pseudonyms over a 1 hour period) and never any threads nor any posts of yours.

I did change a forum title of yours which was in ALL CAPS which I told you about and you were fine with.

Just want to keep the facts straight and the rumors to a minimum.

Keep up the great work down there in the south and I hope you'll stop by from time to time.

Best,
Chris

 

Edit:  I have just been informed that a forum topic consisting of an anti-Sarah Palin political joke that was generating complaints was pulled.  I never saw the post and I didn't know about this until just now, but I'll look into it further.  I might have left it, I might not have.  I don't know.  But I support the moderators in deciding to remove it because that's the decision they made.

I figure that when a post, especially just a political cartoon, generates multiple complaints it's hard for me to see where that's helping the cause much.

I am, however, saddened that an anti-Sarah Palin political cartoon would be used as the basis for an insinuation that some necessary freedom has been lost.

Instead, if I had such a post removed, my first instinct would have been to say to myself, "I guess that was an off-topic post.  What modifications do I need to consider to my posting selections?"

But that's just me.

Everybody has a right to their own response to the world.

 

 

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5568
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Mainecooncat,

I did not see anything to take offense about here, so don't worry about me.

I am happy that some people feel the territory is now safer to venture out upon.  That's all good news to me.

Best,
Chris

capesurvivor's picture
capesurvivor
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 12 2008
Posts: 963
Re: Introducing our new moderators

Chris, 

I found the Crash Course to be excellent and quite informative. You have a great teaching style and I don't want the following to be seen as excessively critical, but I have found aspects of it to be distressing.  I composed the following to post on this thread:

I was trying to figure out how to ask this question again and, with the addition of moderators, decided to post it here. I stumbled upon this site several months ago, took the Crash Course, and emailed Chris to ask whether it was worth my time and money to attend Rowe. I mentioned my extensive reading in triple E subjects and asked whether it would be a rehash of concepts for me. I did not hear from Chris. After several weeks I emailed the identical question again and received a brief email from someone who will remain nameless. The email said that Chris gets lots of emails and is too busy to answer them, that the Rowe Conference goes into greater depth, and to read the Rowe description. I decided to register for the Rowe Conference despite the lack of information.

I am writing to publicly ask to have this question forwarded to Chris to be answered. Recently diagnosed with a medical problem that makes travel painful, I want to be sure that it is worth my pain (not to mention time and money) to attend. I don't need to attend to learn to prepare emotionally for massive change, nor do I need a refresher in basic triple E problems. I'm not a beginner.

I, also,  have a doctorate (M.A., experimental psychology; Ph.D., clinical psychology). At 60 years old, I have several times through the years emailed luminaries in my field asking similar questions ie. is that conference you're presenting near me worth my time; will I learn anything I need to know that I won't find elsewhere, given my level of background (described briefly). Unfailingly, they have answered my queries.

Why not Chris? If he is unable to take 30 seconds to respond to a query from someone who is considering spending hundreds of dollars, plus my time, to attend a yearly conference, how can I understand his concept of community? I see that he is spending "14 hours daily, seven days per week", on the web site. That does not seem to me to be a model of sustainability, particularly personal sustainability, for anyone, especially if it actually results in his distancing himself from brief queries such as mine. Granted, I'm not a paying customer but that is a commitment that I was going to consider after meeting Chris in Rowe, My question would not seem to require registration.

I am posting this here because, while I believe that you can make some case for moderators, I also believe that they will be one more level of bureaucracy/flak-catching to keep posters from interacting with the web creator and promulgator. Several times we've seen official folks stating that they "don't think that Chris sees it that way" or they "can't speak for Chris." Moderators may screen out the joe2babas and Krogoths but it is the potentially fractious and impudent (no offense guys!) who often make worthwhile contributions outside the box.

This is already longer than I intended. If you moderators deem it unsuitable to forward to Chris, that is your decision. If you deem it unsuitable to remain on the web site..well, either response will certainly provide me with an answer about cancelling my Rowe trip.

SG

James Wandler's picture
James Wandler
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 11 2008
Posts: 219
Re: Introducing our new moderators
Nichoman wrote:
Chris Martenson wrote:

I hold the following truths to be self-evident:

  • The next twenty years will present massive changes, challenges, and opportunities to our entire planet
  • Community is the essential key to each of our individual future well-being
  • Non-status-quo solutions and approaches are needed, starting now.

Couple of thoughts and questions for readers using Chris's points 2 and 3 above...

  1. Incentivize And Reward Local Community Service. Has anyone heard of at local level, having local tax payers (and businesses) reduce a percentage of their tax basis (property, local) by working "X" amount of hours using their talents/labor to help each other and work on local projects?   Always found innovation, incentives, equitable recognition and rewards key to successful organizations and communities.    People/businesses could reduce a percentage of taxes locally while providing labor and expertise to the local community.    Seen something like this in military experience overseas in Asia (maybe a reason...for increased growth certain places).  Why wouldn't something like this work and is it an example to explore/consider?  
  2. Improved Governance. Numerous excellent quotations have been cited here and over the internet of our founding fathers and how our government has strayed from key principles. Doesn't the data from almost every government program show reduced results and increased inefficiencies...thus increased budgets in almost everything government is involved in?  I could give examples about Education, Health Care, Energy and so on, but postulate this is self evident. Doesn't this indicate our governance system(s) is lost beyond just lack of accountability and transparency?    An accepted view is our governance system is wedded to special interests and unable to learn and improve?   If the above is agreed, as Chris broadly references in the Crash Course, plus Chris 3 points above, add his numerous insightful posts on the handling of unraveling financial crisis,  poor governance is part of the problem.  Why don't we try and address this wisely?   There are ideas out there to more empower the people to hold our elected officials and government more accountable ?

My view is how we pursue points 2 and 3 long term are most important to each of our daily lives...  

Nichoman 

Nichoman,

These are excellent observations.  For your first point "Incentize and Reward Local Community Service" I would suggest that Complementary Currencies would fit nicely.  pp. 162 to 164 of the book Deep Economy by Bill McKibben outlines this - including using the currency to pay property taxes. 

Imagine that one lives in a small community and uses their hard earned labor to make a purchase at an establishment (gas station, grocery store, etc.) owned by a corporation from outside the community ...most of the money from the purchase disappears into the cash register and leaves the community to reappear at the head office of the corporation that owns the establishment.  I'm sure that people in many rural towns scratch their heads wondering why "money" is so hard to come by without realizing that it regularly disappears out of their communities each time they patronize these establishments.  A complementary currency thus keeps the value of local labor circulating since the establishment is unable to easily pass the local currency along to head office.

I didn't understand this myself until I read Deep Economy.  I had been fooled by the "trickle down theory".  Sorry - if the average person wants wealth - we need to create it and retain it.  The "trickle down theory" is really a "torrent up theory".  Guess what?  It works really well - the trouble is that you need to get closer and closer to the source at the top to really benefit.  Wonder why the "trickle down theory" is so widely disseminated?  Because it shifts your focus from living sustainably and maximizing your personal wealth creation to a system that creates a pyramid that benefits those at the top. 

The other advantage of complementary currencies is that they keep the inherent wealth creation simplicities of Adam Smith's invisible hand in play while addressing the positive benefits you mention above.  I suppose the difficulty might be launching the complementary currency - however I'm optimistic about this given that an 11 year old was announced in this thread to be quite capable of explaining the concept of money to his/her peers (congratulations to that person, I might add!).

For your second point "Improved Governance" I'd refer you to Chris' podcast with Bill Sharon on "political will" suggesting that changes in Washington are sparked by changes in grassroots sentiment within the US and then flow to the Capital.  Chris discusses this at the 42 min mark and continue to the 45 min. mark (just be a little patient as it loads so that you can scroll along).  Chris' message is to use the site to build awareness, build understanding, and take action.  The entire podcast is excellent and starts from the 9 min mark: 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bill-sharon/2008/12/18/what-needs-to-go-right-with-bill-sharon

I am a firm believer that change of any sort needs to be grassroots whether it be of the complementary currency / live sustainable / personal wealth creation standpoint or the "political will" standpoint.

Hope this helps,

James

Becca Martenson's picture
Becca Martenson
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 43
Re: Introducing our new moderators
Linda K wrote:

A last comment about being inclusive in getting the message of the Crash Course out. There's been several mentions of wives not getting their husbands commitment to this site. Chris, it's curious to me that you mention your wife often but I've
never seen her own comments. "Hello" to behind the scenes Becca. At the risk of sounding sexist, I would suggest to those more at home with the scientific approach to problem solving to not be too quick to dismiss a poster that admits to feelings or proposes an idea that's subjective. Just sayin'.

Hello everyone! Linda, thanks for coaxing me out of the shadows where I’m most comfortable.

I read the site daily and appreciate the high level of intelligence and integrity that is expressed again and again by posters. I want to thank everyone on the site for your continued support of Chris and his mission. I love it that Joe2 is showing the Crash Course to his community, and that so many of you have become members of the Brigade. This is so affirming after the many years when the response to Chris’s work was frequently disdainful or outright hostile. Watching the energy shift and having a whole community of people that support him is a real blessing to Chris and our whole family. Thank you all.

Chris is asking me to formally introduce myself and give everyone a little background on what I bring to the Chris/Becca duo; I’ll start another thread elsewhere to do this.

tmollner's picture
tmollner
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 17 2008
Posts: 1
Hello to Becca!!! Welcome!

Becca, good to witness you showing up on the site. Your family is a marvelous model of what Chris and so many of us have come to know is what we have to do to lead humanity not only out of this mess but also into the next layers of maturity that will not have us repeat it. Much love to you and your children.

 Terry Mollner

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 465
Re: Introducing our new moderators

James705ca,

Excellent follow up to Nichomans post. I just started Deep Economy and it seems to be an excellent resource on applications that can be used locally.

The  key will be getting local governments to respond to the will of the people and in establishing  these local economies which in turn will support sustainable approaches to shelter, energy, food, environment, etc.  Matrix has a program underway in his community in Australia.

Establising a target of say 8% ( this number is mentioned elsewhere on this site ) of the local population that did the crash course AND was willing to take some level of action as regards public policy would be the critical mass needed to begin causitive massive local change.

Coop 

 

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 465
Re: Chris Martenson Truths and Vision - presenting to the ...

Thanks dps,

Looks like I have an OOPs !  I have been so busy trying to stay current on the postings, work study etc that I neglected  to joint the Brigade. So I will get that done and carry on.

Coop

Becca Martenson's picture
Becca Martenson
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 43
Re: Hello to Becca!!! Welcome!

Thank you for the warm welcome Terry! 

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