Daily Digest

Daily Digest - June 26

Saturday, June 26, 2010, 9:12 AM
  • This American Life: Social Contract
  • Aid to States May Be Lost as Jobs Bill Stalls
  • The Next Crisis: Public Pension Funds
  • Suiting Up for a Post-Dollar World
  • SDR Strawman & Gold-Backed Euro
  • A Solar Bulb May Light the Way
  • Report: Toxins Found in Whales Bode Ill for Humans
  • Genetically Altered Salmon Get Closer to the Table
  • Storm Could Disrupt Effort in Gulf

Economy

This American Life: Social Contract (jdargis)

Richard Ravitch has helped fix three governmental crises, including when New York City nearly went bankrupt in 1975. What's changed, to make it so much harder for him to solve the state's current financial crisis?

Aid to States May Be Lost as Jobs Bill Stalls (jdargis)

The result, governors and state budget officers are warning, could be hundreds of thousands of layoffs at the state and local levels, as well as draconian spending cuts.

“It’s a bloodletting,” said Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania, a Democrat.

The Next Crisis: Public Pension Funds (jdargis)

In California, which is in a $19 billion budget hole, Calpers is forcing hard-pressed localities to cough up an extra $700 million in contributions. New York State, more creatively, has suggested that municipalities simply borrow from the state pension fund the money they owe to that very fund.

Suiting Up for a Post-Dollar World (pinecarr)

There is fresh evidence that time is running out for the dollar-centric global monetary order. In fact, central banks outside the US are already making swift and discrete preparation for a post-dollar era.

SDR Strawman & Gold-Backed Euro (pinecarr)

The global monetary system is clearly broken, and increasingly recognized as broken. Political and banking leaders have been working on solutions.

Energy

A Solar Bulb May Light the Way (jdargis)

Where Nokero’s bulb appears to break ground is in its design: it’s small enough to carry, self-contained, highly durable and features a replaceable battery. When fully charged, it provides four hours of light.

Environment

Report: Toxins Found in Whales Bode Ill for Humans (VeganD)

A report released Thursday noted high levels of cadmium, aluminum, chromium, lead, silver, mercury and titanium in tissue samples taken by dart gun from nearly 1,000 whales over five years. From polar areas to equatorial waters, the whales ingested pollutants that may have been produced by humans thousands of miles away, the researchers said.

Genetically Altered Salmon Get Closer to the Table (jdargis)

The developer of the salmon has been trying to get approval for a decade. But the company now seems to have submitted most or all of the data the F.D.A. needs to analyze whether the salmon are safe to eat, nutritionally equivalent to other salmon and safe for the environment, according to government and biotechnology industry officials. A public meeting to discuss the salmon may be held as early as this fall.

Storm Could Disrupt Effort in Gulf (jdargis)

If the area of disturbed weather — as yet still unorganized — does develop into a storm, it may happen around the time Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. makes his first visit to the region since the disaster started. Admiral Allen announced that Mr. Biden was expected on Tuesday.

Please send article submissions to: [email protected]

32 Comments

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Dakota state bank - any info on it?

I had in mind as an example the state bank in North Dakota. It was a mistake on my part for not mentioning them earlier in my post on Friday.   If my memory serves me well, it is in N Dakota. 

Anyways, it has been awhile but I remember reading some very good things about it - that largely because of it the state was not experiencing many of the same economic and financial problems of the rest of the country.

I do not know anything about Florida.  And I don't trust any politicians - even Ron Paul, who I personally admire.  Nevertheless, he is a politician and my whole life experience says don't trust them.

Based on my sketchy memory of the good things I heard about the Dakota state bank, it impressed me enough to keep it in the back of my mind.  When the subject came up about Florida - I decided to write my post - not to endorse their particular ideas or any politician but, to muse on the concept as a possibility to confront the excesses we face today. 

I am glad folks here are discussing it and so maybe collectively, we can investigate the idea further. 

I wonder if anyone knows anything more about the Dakota state bank and how it is run and its track record?

Bruce  Cool

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26
 

Defeat of jobs bill in Senate costly to California ("Some 200,000 jobless Californians have already lost their unemployment benefits, and that figure is expected to rise to 1.5 million")

Greece Swaps Surge to Record, Signaling 68.5% Chance of Default

Europe Debt Crisis Hurts High-Yield Borrowers In The US

In China, Worries Over Municipal Debts (CNBC)

Freddie Mac holdings shrink, deliquencies mixed

British PM warns against 'destruction' of BP

Build America Bonds Dealt Setback in Senate Fight Over Job Bill

Spain electricity review may delay bond issue plan

IMF postpones disbursement of loan to Romania

Romania to Raise Value-Added Tax to Meet IMF-Imposed Budget Deficit Goal

Lack of FMAP Could Spell Disaster for Florida Budget

Regulators Close Banks In Fla., Ga., NM

Marin grand jury urges SMART to defer bike path, reconsider pension benefits ($155 million shortfall)

New city budget will increase price of water and add a trash collection fee (St. Louis)

Destroyed Pensacola Beach Boiling Like Acid (Video)

Oil Washes up in Orange Beach Alabama, Protection Not Working (News Video)

Tarballs Lurk Just Beneath the Surface (Video)

Obama's proposal for a $90 billion, 10-year tax on banks as the next step in reform

Tropical storm Alex forms in Caribbean

ICN 06/20/10 2nd amendment, solar storm, wikileaks, whistleblower, BP Oil Spill (Video)

 
Gulf Cleanup is Just for Show ......Video ("Cosmetic only"....removes oil only from the very surface of the sand) 
 
 
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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Lordson - Info on Bank of N Dakota

The Bank of North Dakota: Banking's 'public option'

North Dakota operates the country’s only state-run bank. The Bank of North Dakota makes loans to businesses and to other banks, and has come to be seen both in and out of the state as a beacon of economic stability and financial independence

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=476951&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+StatelineorgRss-Headlines+(Stateline.org+RSS+-+Headlines)

U.S. States Consider Starting Their Own Banks

ATLANTA, Georgia, Apr 30, 2010 (IPS) - At least eight U.S. states are considering proposals to start state-run banks in the wake of an economic crisis where many private banks ceased or greatly decreased their lending, literally shrinking the money pool available in state economies.

 
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51277

 

Bank of N Dakota website   -    http://banknd.com/

 

 

 

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

The BP situation is of concern. The size of this environmental disaster will ensure that BP will get punished.  My concern is the American government may be over-zealous when it comes time to determine the type of punishment so as to appease the citizens in the affected regions. The BP organisation is larger than Lehman Brothers so a failure of BP would be a crippling blow to the UK economy.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Too bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Punishment should match the crime!  BP cut corners, has lied outrageously, and should be taken apart and sold off to pay for this disaster.  Maybe if this had happened in the English Chanel and it was going to destroy all the wildlife from Southern Spain to Finland, including all of Britain, Ireland and Iceland, you'd feel differently!  But in all honesty, that's exactly what it's going to do to THIS country, if not more!  Just like any other company, BP is NOT "Too Big To Fail!!!!".  

And if the only concern you have regarding this disaster is the UK's economy, then you may want to re think your priorities!  My Goodness!!!!!

On top of this, if you invest in a company and they screw up and lose their value or they go bankrupt, it's no ones fault but their own that they invested in the company in the first place.  If it so happens that the country they live in has invested their socialistic pension plan into said company again, TOO BAD!

Jasenica wrote:

The BP situation is of concern. The size of this environmental disaster will ensure that BP will get punished.  My concern is the American government may be over-zealous when it comes time to determine the type of punishment so as to appease the citizens in the affected regions. The BP organisation is larger than Lehman Brothers so a failure of BP would be a crippling blow to the UK economy.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26
LogansRun wrote:

Too bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Punishment should match the crime!  BP cut corners, has lied outrageously, [etc]

*snip*

I completely agree with this sentiment.  However, I believe that *all* large oil companies would have acted in the same way, because that's how the incentives are currently set up.  As a culture, we've build our civilization on cheap* oil.  I say cheap*, because it isn't actually cheap.  It's actually expensive.  This oil spill is one of the costs.  All the people with respiratory diseases caused by pollution are another of the costs.

I do agree that those who made wrong choices should be punished.  I absolutely agree that BP's investors should have their investments lost if in fact BP has done more damage than the company is worth (which I suspect is the case).    But this belief doesn't ignore the fact that this will cause a LOT of hardship for people who had their pension money put into BP...

But the government should be "punished" as well, since they sat by while this tragedy was set up.

Moreover, we also need to "punish" (if that is the right paradigm) all of us that have benefited from cheap oil.   All of us that buy gas at $2.50 instead of $20 a gallon.  All of us that buy cheap imported good from China.  All of us that eat cheap food grown with petro-chemicals.  

We're in this mess because we have a system where the winner is the person that can internalize all the benefits while externalizing all the costs.  I agree that "too big to fail" is an grotesque abomination.  But we need to be willing of accepting the costs.  Understanding the reality that letting a Lehman Brothers or a BP to fail *will* have drastic, negative consequences.  These are the costs of the extravagance we've been living for the last many years.

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Re: ND public bank Daily Digest - June 26

 

jhart5 - Thank you for the info. 

I look forward to sitting down with a cup of joe and reviewing it.   Maybe, it will be worth sending a letter to our state legislators and governors to seriously look at this option.

Something to think about.

We need to get pro-active finding solutions.... we already are fully aware of everything that is wrong.  The Fed and Federal Government is broken.  This best hope for us to implement changes lie in the local communities up to the state level.  We need to resurrect state rights over  Federal control.  The Federal Govt. is too big to work.... it has already failed miserably.

State rights = empowerment of the local populations, politically.

Bruce  Cool 

 

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26-BP punishment

Jasenica

I think you are correct and that bankrupting the company the wrong approach altogether. All it would take (my opinion of course) is to

let the CEO, President of the Board and a few other select people lose most  of their monies. Live like the average Jane/Joe through civil litigation.

That would scare the pants off all of the other CEO's in Big Oil and would not harm the company.   Believe me, when the folks in charge get hit in the pocketbook it gets their attention. Even if BP fails the people running the company will get their golden parachutes, and that is a crime.

JMHO, but I think we are barking up the wrong tree, no need to bankrupt the company, just take away the big boys monies for letting this happen.

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Re: ND public bank Daily Digest - June 26
Lordson wrote:

 

jhart5 - Thank you for the info. 

I look forward to sitting down with a cup of joe and reviewing it.   Maybe, it will be worth sending a letter to our state legislators and governors to seriously look at this option.

Something to think about.

We need to get pro-active finding solutions.... we already are fully aware of everything that is wrong.  The Fed and Federal Government is broken.  This best hope for us to implement changes lie in the local communities up to the state level.  We need to resurrect state rights over  Federal control.  The Federal Govt. is too big to work.... it has already failed miserably.

State rights = empowerment of the local populations, politically.

Bruce  Cool 

 

There is an unnamed rule: Put a group of high IQ individuals in a room or on a committee or in a government of ANY sort and you will - without guiding principles and merit based problem solving - get an IQ of 0. A committee, government or group that collectively couldn't tie it's shoelace. 

A sign entering a local town below my mountain read "We are tourist friendly." This town borrowed heavily to promote tourism as it's kick start for it's depressed economy. Tourist attractions: ZERO. It is a dried up blue collar town, main  street was taken over by Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot and K-Mart. Factories have pulled out.

And it went out and borrowed a few hundred thousand to promote tourism? Maybe I'm nuts but no one wants to take a tour of a closed carpet factory.

Hope your local governments are smarter than my nearest local government. Bottom Line: I have every confidence that governments are highly capable of creating problems and no confidence what so ever that they can fix anything.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Lordson - and others that may be interested. Addional Information Re: State Banks

State Banks ala North Dakota
By Robert von Tobel on Apr 16, 2010 5:53:50 AM

Read "Web of Debt" by Ellen H. Brown for correct information about State owned banks. http://publicbanking.wordpress.com/

There is every reason for taxpayers to demand and get a state owned bank in every state. The key issue is that all state revenue would be deposited in the state bank and all state debts would be paid by the state bank. Thus the interest earned by the state money would accrue to the state instead of being given away to a private firm. The bank would otherwise function like any other bank in making loans to the state, individuals, companies, and other banks. All this would be a great boost for state income and a great reduction in state costs. Of course, you may expect bankers to fight this tooth and nail for obvious reasons...

Economic Sovereignty for Florida’s Future  -  http://letthemfail.us/archives/4559

Other economists have entertained the notion of reinstating our Constitutional legacy – a system of credit – to restore the fiscal sovereignty of our nation, long ago usurped by the international cartel of central banks established by the traitorous Federal Reserve Act. But only North Dakota had the wisdom to erect a firewall between railroad barons, their Wall Street financiers, and the State of North Dakota.

also http://letthemfail.us/archives/1125 and  http://letthemfail.us/archives/2315 and http://letthemfail.us/about

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Re: ND public bank Daily Digest - June 26

Davos wrote: 

There is an unnamed rule: Put a group of high IQ individuals in a room or on a committee or in a government of ANY sort and you will - without guiding principles and merit based problem solving - get an IQ of 0. A committee, government or group that collectively couldn't tie it's shoelace. 

 

A sign entering a local town below my mountain read "We are tourist friendly." This town borrowed heavily to promote tourism as it's kick start for it's depressed economy. Tourist attractions: ZERO. It is a dried up blue collar town, main  street was taken over by Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot and K-Mart. Factories have pulled out.

And it went out and borrowed a few hundred thousand to promote tourism? Maybe I'm nuts but no one wants to take a tour of a closed carpet factory.

Hope your local governments are smarter than my nearest local government. Bottom Line: I have every confidence that governments are highly capable of creating problems and no confidence what so ever that they can fix anything.

Davos,

Can't say I disagree with your experiences Davos.  But consider this - if we are incapable of governing ourselves, even at the local level, then we are without hope in this nation.  If we allow ourselves to slip into despondancy all that is left for us in total anarchy.  I don't think you are an anarchist.  Anyways, my focus is finding solutions. 

This blog has been very good - at mostly highlighting and educating folks on what is broke - that is, wringing our hands in constant frustration over the lack of ( to be kind...)  comon sense to implement  many obvious solutions our educated public and business leaders seem to ignore.   But, a despair has set in and I suggest it is time to focus a little more on searching for solutions (as futile as that may seem to be)  that have a chance at succeeding. 

I know what the solutions are and what is going to happen but, I am prevented from discussing them here in these forums.  So, I listen and learn from the insights of CM and others, like yourself, and sometimes put my two cents in for what it is worth  (not worth much today....) - therefore, I stick to economics and public policy.  The MSM is full of nonsense - I even gave up on my WSJ subcription.  Just propaganda... 

Even as true as your view of our current condition, as you stated - do you have a another solution as to how we as a nation can actually fix this mess on the secular level - that is doable

 I appreciate your opinions as always  Davos.  :o)

On another note:   Wish I could have read your recent article in the FS (?).  Rave reviews from many on this site - unfortunately, I am not a contributing member of FS at this time.  Nevertheless, congratulations seem to be in order.  Well done!

Bruce  Cool

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26-BP punishment

How is maybe (?) $50m in lost wages from the leaders of BP going to pay for the environmental damage, cleanup, compensation for lost LIVES (!!!!!!!), etc...?  It won't!  

BP F'd up!  Plain and simple!!!  And YES the US Gov't is just as at fault in many many ways, but BP are the A holes that cut the corners to save a few bucks.  BK the company, don't allow "golden parachutes" and split it between the needed persons.  And the saddest part of this whole scenario...........?...........The people and wildlife of the Gulf Coast, GOM, and all surrounding areas could cease to exist!  Nada!  And just think, we're only 68 days into this mess and we still could have (at the least) 60 more days but more than likely 3-6 months (if not MUCH LONGER)!  NOTHING in the history of man has ever happened like this.....nothing.  And some think a company shouldn't be sacrificed?  Ugh.

VeganD wrote:

Jasenica

I think you are correct and that bankrupting the company the wrong approach altogether. All it would take (my opinion of course) is to

let the CEO, President of the Board and a few other select people lose most  of their monies. Live like the average Jane/Joe through civil litigation.

That would scare the pants off all of the other CEO's in Big Oil and would not harm the company.   Believe me, when the folks in charge get hit in the pocketbook it gets their attention. Even if BP fails the people running the company will get their golden parachutes, and that is a crime.

JMHO, but I think we are barking up the wrong tree, no need to bankrupt the company, just take away the big boys monies for letting this happen.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Logan

Thank you for your response. What I am getting at is not a company's life, I could care less. I just think we are punishing the innocent. The guys in charge are responsible and they are getting off the hook. My family may be directly affected by this and I take the spill more seriously than you know, but killing BP does not punish the guilty. Of course, the corporation is on the hook for reparations. Please do not misunderstand me, but I appreciate the response nontheless.

Take care

Denise

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Davos wrote: There is an unnamed rule: Put a group of high IQ individuals in a room or on a committee or in a government of ANY sort and you will - without guiding principles and merit based problem solving - get an IQ of 0. A committee, government or group that collectively couldn't tie it's shoelace. 

About 95%+ of the current economic problems that we face today were created one way or another by the US Government, Wall Street, Federal Reserve and any attempt they make to fix those problems will end up creating more problems to solve. So when will all this end? When they run out of problems to fix and that wont be anytime soon.

Hope your local governments are smarter than my nearest local government. Bottom Line: I have every confidence that governments are highly capable of creating problems and no confidence what so ever that they can fix anything.

The local governments probably aren't any smarter but the economic disasters they create will be on a much smaller and local scale. Besides governments aren't being paid enough to fix them, just create them.

But what do I know I'm just another one of those 800lb gorillas.

 

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

jhart5 wrote:

But what do I know I'm just another one of those 800lb gorillas

You too ?!

I can't seem to shed the weight..... now that is frustrating !  lol

Thanks for all your insight....  

Bruce  Cool

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Bruce: I applaud your positive take and wanting to get this mess fixed.

46 of 50 states are in a dire financial mess. CA is Greece and many others are having their credit default spreads blow out. Since the states can't print all they will be able to do is go to the Fed gov with their hat in hand and beg. What will the Fed govt do? Counterfeit aka print. Just like the EU.

Greece x 50. 'Fugetabout' the local government fixing our problems when they can't even fix their own checkbook.

The fix is let capitalism do it's thing.

The rub with letting capitalism do it's thing is since President Don Regan

told the acting President Ron Raagan to speed it up we have had corporatocracy not the capitalistic society we were told in school that we have. For more on corporatocracy see "The Corporation".

Our capitalistic society was transformed, we shipped our manufacturing base out, we became a service based industry, we borrowed and looked rich. Now our credit card is maxed and we are totally scr#wed. In 2008 Americans BORROWED 9 billion dollars to spend on Starbuck coffees. 900 Starbucks have closed shop now that Americans have had their home atm's removed.

The moron in the White House who says let no crisis go to waste couldn't find his rear or a crisis with both hands and the lights on. This was the opportunity to kick the morons out, cut social welfare and stupid government jobs and go into debt creating massive Manhattan Projects to live sustainability and find new energies. People like CM shouldn't be running a blog - they should be huddled in a room with equal grey matter deciding where and how we should be using the remaining oil.

Now the fix is everyman woman and micro community for themselves. Survive the crash which will take the morons out and build anew. 

In my article "Its not a financial crisis its a stupidity crisis" (and the correct DJIA chart that got clipped is here) I laid out the formula which basically is this: The morons blow it up and then the government relies on those very morons to fix what they blew up. It'll never happen. Hopefully after they really blow it up this time the government will get smarter (elect a Ron Paul or Paul Ryan) and we will re-grow capitalism - not the Hank Paulson criminal corporatocracy that grew out of the late eighties.

Happy crash! Take care.

 

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

It's Saturday and Davos can't be taken seriously. During the week it's a different story.

Some of davos's previous blogs at financial sense.    jhart5

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/okst/archive.html

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26-BP punishment

I always thought you were presumed innocent until proven guilty? I haven't seen the conclusions of a thorough investigation yet. The Deepwater Horizon and most of the equipment were American owned and operated. The vast majority of the rig crew were not BP employees.  Yes BP is ultimately responsible for the clean up but in the fullness of time, when blame has been apportioned in a court of law, I fully expect BP to counter claim compensation from Transocean etc.

 

I am very disapointed to how Obama has handled this situation. When he was elected I genuinely thought he was going to be a visionary and different to what had gone before. On this occasion he has shamelessly played to the gallery with his "over the top" Brit bashing remarks about "British Petroleum" and a character assasinasion of the company and staff. This before a proper lawful inquiry!

 

Contrast BP's response to this disaster to that of your own Union Carbide to the Bhopal disaster....see link below and learn!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7843752/India-to-pr...

 

 

Remember as Americans you represent 2% of the World's population but use 25% of the World's energy! You also seem to create enemies where ever you go in the World. A case of "my country right or wrong" perhaps???

 

 

Regards, Mike

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26-BP punishment
MikeJE wrote:

I always thought you were presumed innocent until proven guilty? I haven't seen the conclusions of a thorough investigation yet. The Deepwater Horizon and most of the equipment were American owned and operated. The vast majority of the rig crew were not BP employees.  Yes BP is ultimately responsible for the clean up but in the fullness of time, when blame has been apportioned in a court of law, I fully expect BP to counter claim compensation from Transocean etc.

 

I am very disapointed to how Obama has handled this situation. When he was elected I genuinely thought he was going to be a visionary and different to what had gone before. On this occasion he has shamelessly played to the gallery with his "over the top" Brit bashing remarks about "British Petroleum" and a character assasinasion of the company and staff. This before a proper lawful inquiry!

 

Contrast BP's response to this disaster to that of your own Union Carbide to the Bhopal disaster....see link below and learn!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7843752/India-to-pr...

 

 

Remember as Americans you represent 2% of the World's population but use 25% of the World's energy! You also seem to create enemies where ever you go in the World. A case of "my country right or wrong" perhaps???

 

 

Regards, Mike

Hi Mike: Hey, just wondering, have you seen this??? LINK

I have.

While a quick trial and hanging the MORON at BP who made every decision he could have made wrong - wrong  - won't fix the spill but it sure might stop other oil executives from acting like MORONS. Sorry if your pension fund bought this trash but the bottom line is BP deserves to fail and will fail.

 

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

This whole mess has ZERO national boundrese!  Get over the nationalism BS!  This has to do with a company that cut corners, has lied from day one, and has done everything in their absolute power to screw themselves in the PR category!  This has EVERYTHING to do with a company and gov't (both from different countries) that has no idea as to how to go about business without screwing the populace of the world!  

Anyway, you yahoo's that want to think about your pensions and what would happen if BP is taken out need to start thinking about the REAL consequences of this disaster!  As I said before, this is something that mankind has NEVER gone through before and have ZERO idea as to how to handle.  I told my wife a month ago to get ready!  And after my discussion with a Head Admin. of FEMA this afternoon, it's really coming to fruition.

BTW:  I'll be posting on the conversation in CM's "raining oil" thread in the morning.  I really need to get my head around it.ugh

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26-BP punishment

Thanks for the link Davos.

 

 

Mike

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26-BP punishment

 

by Drilller25 May 19, 2010 6:14 PM EDT Mr Williams did not understand why this was a problem because he knew nothing about the annular operation or tolerances. Pulling Drill pipe through the annular IS NOT a problem. They are designed to allow this operation. The annular is basically a 5 foot doughnut with about a 22 inch hole in it. It is designed to regulate pressure to allow the pipe to "Strip" through it while holding closing pressure. The Shaker room hand who brought the rubber pieces to the Driller that were separated from the Drilling Fluid did the right thing. The annular is designed to go through several Drilling Cycles. Losing an occasional bit of rubber is SOP for an Annular. Remember you have about 500 pounds of additional rubber behind the pieces that got scraped off. There was no fault by the Driller. This was not any cause for alarm. What was not mentioned in the report is there is an ADDITIONAL ANNULAR mounted below the one in question mounted. This Redundancy should have been mentioned. The moving of the joystick may have been accidental, but this did not cause problems with the annular. Finding fault for stripping the pipe through the annular made the story more dramatic, but quite frankly was irresponsible and was wrong for CBS to endorse this. CBS and the electrician got this one wrong. The so called expert Mr Bob Bea, was way off on his assumtions and agreeing with Mr Williams claims as well.

Davos,

 

I still believe that we should await a proper enquiry as to what caused this catastrophy.

 

 

This comment by "driller 25" is taken from the comments section below the video clips on the 60 Minutes site....

 

"Mr Williams did not understand why this was a problem because he knew nothing about the annular operation or tolerances. Pulling Drill pipe through the annular IS NOT a problem. They are designed to allow this operation. The annular is basically a 5 foot doughnut with about a 22 inch hole in it. It is designed to regulate pressure to allow the pipe to "Strip" through it while holding closing pressure. The Shaker room hand who brought the rubber pieces to the Driller that were separated from the Drilling Fluid did the right thing. The annular is designed to go through several Drilling Cycles. Losing an occasional bit of rubber is SOP for an Annular. Remember you have about 500 pounds of additional rubber behind the pieces that got scraped off. There was no fault by the Driller. This was not any cause for alarm. What was not mentioned in the report is there is an ADDITIONAL ANNULAR mounted below the one in question mounted. This Redundancy should have been mentioned. The moving of the joystick may have been accidental, but this did not cause problems with the annular. Finding fault for stripping the pipe through the annular made the story more dramatic, but quite frankly was irresponsible and was wrong for CBS to endorse this. CBS and the electrician got this one wrong. The so called expert Mr Bob Bea, was way off on his assumtions and agreeing with Mr Williams claims as well."

by Drilller25 May 19, 2010 6:14 PM EDT Mr Williams did not understand why this was a problem because he knew nothing about the annular operation or tolerances. Pulling Drill pipe through the annular IS NOT a problem. They are designed to allow this operation. The annular is basically a 5 foot doughnut with about a 22 inch hole in it. It is designed to regulate pressure to allow the pipe to "Strip" through it while holding closing pressure. The Shaker room hand who brought the rubber pieces to the Driller that were separated from the Drilling Fluid did the right thing. The annular is designed to go through several Drilling Cycles. Losing an occasional bit of rubber is SOP for an Annular. Remember you have about 500 pounds of additional rubber behind the pieces that got scraped off. There was no fault by the Driller. This was not any cause for alarm. What was not mentioned in the report is there is an ADDITIONAL ANNULAR mounted below the one in question mounted. This Redundancy should have been mentioned. The moving of the joystick may have been accidental, but this did not cause problems with the annular. Finding fault for stripping the pipe through the annular made the story more dramatic, but quite frankly was irresponsible and was wrong for CBS to endorse this. CBS and the electrician got this one wrong. The so called expert Mr Bob Bea, was way off on his assumtions and agreeing with Mr Williams claims as well.

.

 

by DrJulieDBell May 19, 2010 8:15 AM EDT First of all, condolences to the families that lost love ones. Any loss in the oil and gas industry is a loss to us all. Their story will not stop here but continue for many years as was the case for the Piper Alpha.

As someone who has worked offshore as a contractor/geologist in the North Sea, North Africa and deep sea in West Africa; I can attest to the demanding and challenging lifestyle working offshore can be. I was very happy to learn from the rigorous HSE and environmental practices that are common practice in countries such surrounding the North Sea before working in other locations.

Although, now as an academic and an American living in the UK; I was struck in this program by the quick blame placed on BP. Surely, you cannot have an investigator with such opinionated views clearly carry out investigations. It?s time to investigate how the industry is run including HSE and environmental establishing better practices for the future and for all Americans.

Let?s not place blame until a thorough investigation is carried out ? and when an investigation is carried out, let?s have a detailed unbiased investigation

by Drilller25 May 19, 2010 6:14 PM EDT Mr Williams did not understand why this was a problem because he knew nothing about the annular operation or tolerances. Pulling Drill pipe through the annular IS NOT a problem. They are designed to allow this operation. The annular is basically a 5 foot doughnut with about a 22 inch hole in it. It is designed to regulate pressure to allow the pipe to "Strip" through it while holding closing pressure. The Shaker room hand who brought the rubber pieces to the Driller that were separated from the Drilling Fluid did the right thing. The annular is designed to go through several Drilling Cycles. Losing an occasional bit of rubber is SOP for an Annular. Remember you have about 500 pounds of additional rubber behind the pieces that got scraped off. There was no fault by the Driller. This was not any cause for alarm. What was not mentioned in the report is there is an ADDITIONAL ANNULAR mounted below the one in question mounted. This Redundancy should have been mentioned. The moving of the joystick may have been accidental, but this did not cause problems with the annular. Finding fault for stripping the pipe through the annular made the story more dramatic, but quite frankly was irresponsible and was wrong for CBS to endorse this. CBS and the electrician got this one wrong. The so called expert Mr Bob Bea, was way off on his assumtions and agreeing with Mr Williams claims as well.

 

by DrJulieDBell May 19, 2010 8:15 AM EDT First of all, condolences to the families that lost love ones. Any loss in the oil and gas industry is a loss to us all. Their story will not stop here but continue for many years as was the case for the Piper Alpha.

As someone who has worked offshore as a contractor/geologist in the North Sea, North Africa and deep sea in West Africa; I can attest to the demanding and challenging lifestyle working offshore can be. I was very happy to learn from the rigorous HSE and environmental practices that are common practice in countries such surrounding the North Sea before working in other locations.

Although, now as an academic and an American living in the UK; I was struck in this program by the quick blame placed on BP. Surely, you cannot have an investigator with such opinionated views clearly carry out investigations. It?s time to investigate how the industry is run including HSE and environmental establishing better practices for the future and for all Americans.

Let?s not place blame until a thorough investigation is carried out ? and when an investigation is carried out, let?s have a detailed unbiased investigation.

 

by DrJulieDBell May 19, 2010 8:15 AM EDT First of all, condolences to the families that lost love ones. Any loss in the oil and gas industry is a loss to us all. Their story will not stop here but continue for many years as was the case for the Piper Alpha.

As someone who has worked offshore as a contractor/geologist in the North Sea, North Africa and deep sea in West Africa; I can attest to the demanding and challenging lifestyle working offshore can be. I was very happy to learn from the rigorous HSE and environmental practices that are common practice in countries such surrounding the North Sea before working in other locations.

Although, now as an academic and an American living in the UK; I was struck in this program by the quick blame placed on BP. Surely, you cannot have an investigator with such opinionated views clearly carry out investigations. It?s time to investigate how the industry is run including HSE and environmental establishing better practices for the future and for all Americans.

Let?s not place blame until a thorough investigation is carried out ? and when an investigation is carried out, let?s have a detailed unbiased investigation

by DrJulieDBell May 19, 2010 8:15 AM EDT First of all, condolences to the families that lost love ones. Any loss in the oil and gas industry is a loss to us all. Their story will not stop here but continue for many years as was the case for the Piper Alpha.

As someone who has worked offshore as a contractor/geologist in the North Sea, North Africa and deep sea in West Africa; I can attest to the demanding and challenging lifestyle working offshore can be. I was very happy to learn from the rigorous HSE and environmental practices that are common practice in countries such surrounding the North Sea before working in other locations.

Although, now as an academic and an American living in the UK; I was struck in this program by the quick blame placed on BP. Surely, you cannot have an investigator with such opinionated views clearly carry out investigations. It?s time to investigate how the industry is run including HSE and environmental establishing better practices for the future and for all Americans.

Let?s not place blame until a thorough investigation is carried out ? and when an investigation is carried out, let?s have a detailed unbiased investigation.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26
LogansRun wrote:

Too bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Punishment should match the crime!  BP cut corners, has lied outrageously, and should be taken apart and sold off to pay for this disaster.  Maybe if this had happened in the English Chanel and it was going to destroy all the wildlife from Southern Spain to Finland, including all of Britain, Ireland and Iceland, you'd feel differently!  But in all honesty, that's exactly what it's going to do to THIS country, if not more!  Just like any other company, BP is NOT "Too Big To Fail!!!!".  

And if the only concern you have regarding this disaster is the UK's economy, then you may want to re think your priorities!  My Goodness!!!!!

On top of this, if you invest in a company and they screw up and lose their value or they go bankrupt, it's no ones fault but their own that they invested in the company in the first place.  If it so happens that the country they live in has invested their socialistic pension plan into said company again, TOO BAD!

Jasenica wrote:

The BP situation is of concern. The size of this environmental disaster will ensure that BP will get punished.  My concern is the American government may be over-zealous when it comes time to determine the type of punishment so as to appease the citizens in the affected regions. The BP organisation is larger than Lehman Brothers so a failure of BP would be a crippling blow to the UK economy.

You clearly have not understood my concern. I am not concerned about BP's future. I am concerned about a future where BP is forced into bankruptcy because the economic affects would extend well beyond the UK's borders. Do some research and you will see how big BP is and what a catastrophic situation would arise from their failure.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

No, I know exactly how big BP is, and how it will effect national as well as private pension funds if it goes under.  I don't give a rats arse about it.  We (mankind) can handle an economic blow of the magnitude of a BP BK.  We (mankind) may not be able to handle the environmental, medical, mass migration, economic blow of a BP oil spill!  See the difference?  And again, if you don't......sorry, I think your priorities are mixed up.  

Jasenica wrote:
LogansRun wrote:

Too bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Punishment should match the crime!  BP cut corners, has lied outrageously, and should be taken apart and sold off to pay for this disaster.  Maybe if this had happened in the English Chanel and it was going to destroy all the wildlife from Southern Spain to Finland, including all of Britain, Ireland and Iceland, you'd feel differently!  But in all honesty, that's exactly what it's going to do to THIS country, if not more!  Just like any other company, BP is NOT "Too Big To Fail!!!!".  

And if the only concern you have regarding this disaster is the UK's economy, then you may want to re think your priorities!  My Goodness!!!!!

On top of this, if you invest in a company and they screw up and lose their value or they go bankrupt, it's no ones fault but their own that they invested in the company in the first place.  If it so happens that the country they live in has invested their socialistic pension plan into said company again, TOO BAD!

Jasenica wrote:

The BP situation is of concern. The size of this environmental disaster will ensure that BP will get punished.  My concern is the American government may be over-zealous when it comes time to determine the type of punishment so as to appease the citizens in the affected regions. The BP organisation is larger than Lehman Brothers so a failure of BP would be a crippling blow to the UK economy.

You clearly have not understood my concern. I am not concerned about BP's future. I am concerned about a future where BP is forced into bankruptcy because the economic affects would extend well beyond the UK's borders. Do some research and you will see how big BP is and what a catastrophic situation would arise from their failure.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

I have no priorities and I agree the environmental impact will be felt for many decades. I was only sharing my thoughts with this community of what is likely to occur as a result of this disaster as few people realise the demise of BP is a real possibility. I am neither supporting or criticising BP. Which armageddon scenario you prefer is your opinion.

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26
LogansRun wrote:

No, I know exactly how big BP is, and how it will effect national as well as private pension funds if it goes under.  I don't give a rats arse about it.  We (mankind) can handle an economic blow of the magnitude of a BP BK.  We (mankind) may not be able to handle the environmental, medical, mass migration, economic blow of a BP oil spill!  See the difference?  And again, if you don't......sorry, I think your priorities are mixed up.  

Jasenica wrote:
LogansRun wrote:

Too bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Punishment should match the crime!  BP cut corners, has lied outrageously, and should be taken apart and sold off to pay for this disaster.  Maybe if this had happened in the English Chanel and it was going to destroy all the wildlife from Southern Spain to Finland, including all of Britain, Ireland and Iceland, you'd feel differently!  But in all honesty, that's exactly what it's going to do to THIS country, if not more!  Just like any other company, BP is NOT "Too Big To Fail!!!!".  

And if the only concern you have regarding this disaster is the UK's economy, then you may want to re think your priorities!  My Goodness!!!!!

On top of this, if you invest in a company and they screw up and lose their value or they go bankrupt, it's no ones fault but their own that they invested in the company in the first place.  If it so happens that the country they live in has invested their socialistic pension plan into said company again, TOO BAD!

Jasenica wrote:

The BP situation is of concern. The size of this environmental disaster will ensure that BP will get punished.  My concern is the American government may be over-zealous when it comes time to determine the type of punishment so as to appease the citizens in the affected regions. The BP organisation is larger than Lehman Brothers so a failure of BP would be a crippling blow to the UK economy.

You clearly have not understood my concern. I am not concerned about BP's future. I am concerned about a future where BP is forced into bankruptcy because the economic affects would extend well beyond the UK's borders. Do some research and you will see how big BP is and what a catastrophic situation would arise from their failure.

+1000 LR

The concept of ethical investment has been around long enough that we need not waste any time feeling sorry for people who took a gamble on a morally bankrupt scheme. 

Jasenica, your concerns are an extension of "irrational escalation of commitment"  - although it is human nature, it is a mistake to follow along this path, like hanging onto the old gas guzzling beater because you've already sunk so much money into it.  You know that wreckless corporate behaviour is at the root of this catastrophe, yet you are willing to cut them more slack because "we've gone this far by doing it their way, we may as well keep going", that somehow we need them, it is almost like a Stockholm syndrome.  Yes, it is going to hurt like hell.  Maybe this will even be the one that triggers a chain of complete financial collapse.  But just like the argument about why we need to keep petro-farming because we have to keep feeding people, or bailing out corporate incompetence- it is pain avoidance, and it will only hurt more when that final straw breaks our back. 

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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

I understand your concern.  It's not mine.  In fact, as you can tell, I'm all for BP going under and paying the price of their actions  (I'd feel this way if they weren't negligent.  They're in a business that if you make a mistake, you pay the price.  That's what a free market is all about).  It's the RIGHT thing to do.  For those that will be effected financially by a BP BK, sorry.  But it's the chance you take when you invest in a company, whether they do oil, or knitting.  But again, the financial effects of a BP BK are minuscule in comparison to the effects this spill is going to have not only financially, but life in general.  

Take care.

Jasenica wrote:

I have no priorities and I agree the environmental impact will be felt for many decades. I was only sharing my thoughts with this community of what is likely to occur as a result of this disaster as few people realise the demise of BP is a real possibility. I am neither supporting or criticising BP. Which armageddon scenario you prefer is your opinion.

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Jasenica
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Posts: 35
Re: Daily Digest - June 26

What happens, happens. Just be prepared when it does happen.

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Re: Dakota state bank - any info on it?

Hi Bruce, ran into some North Dakota bank info while working on my paper, see quotes and links below:

Many American states that have been considering state-owned banks point to the 90-year-old Bank of North Dakota as a success story. The bank holds $3.9 billion in assets and has provided $351 million in profits to the North Dakota treasury since 1997 (Simon, 2010). North Dakota has an impressive record for staving off the current economic crisis and recession; in 2008 its economy had the largest percentage growth of all US states, and it kept unemployment down to 4.2% (Rappeport and Bullock, 2009).

 

Simon, R. (2010, March 17). Cities, states tell big banks they’ll go elsewhere. The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved from

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704349304575115842815972162.html

 

Rappeport, A., & Bullock, N. (2009, August 6). Warm welcome for businesses as wintry plains lure investors. The Financial Times. Retrieved on January 1, 2010 from
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7b9bc92-821f-11de-9c5e-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

 

Bank of North Dakota Website

www.banknd.nd.gov


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Re: Daily Digest - June 26

Bruce - Check out damon-vrabel-renaissance 2.0 series 1 thru 6 - a better solution to our current economic problems

  [Lesson 6 Part 3]  http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2010/06/damon-vrabel-renaissance-20-will-you.html  

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