Daily Digest

Daily Digest - August 30

Sunday, August 30, 2009, 11:05 AM
  • Wake Up, America: Forced vaccinations, quarantine camps, health care interrogations and mandatory "decontaminations" 
  • Max Keiser (Yuans not Dollars) (Video, Repost, as seen on www.theComingDepression.com)
  • Martin Armstrong – Will Gold Reach $5,000+?
  • Dr. Michael Hudson Interview – Must Listen!
  • 100 (revised), 300 (revised), 1000 (revised again), 4000 (now) Banks will close (Links to www.TheComingDepression.blogspot.com)
  • Bank Failures 82-84
  • St. Louis Fed Charts – Banks Not Looking that Healthy at ALL…
  • Treasury default in the cards?
  • Peak Water, By Jim Quinn

Economy

Wake Up, America: Forced vaccinations, quarantine camps, health care interrogations and mandatory "decontaminations"

The United States of America is devolving into medical fascism and Massachusetts is leading the way with the passage of a new bill, the "Pandemic Response Bill" 2028, reportedly just passed by the MA state Senate and now awaiting approval in the House. This bill suspends virtually all Constitutional rights of Massachusetts citizens and forces anyone "suspected" of being infected to submit to interrogations, "decontaminations" and vaccines.

It's also sets fines up to $1,000 per day for anyone who refuses to submit to quarantines, vaccinations, decontamination efforts or to follow any other verbal order by virtually any state-licensed law enforcement or medical personnel. 

Max Keiser (Yuan's not Dollars) (Video, Repost, as seen on www.theComingDepression.com)

Martin Armstrong – Will Gold Reach $5,000+?

Again he emphasizes the rule of law, he goes way back into history again and then delves into the beliefs of none other than Thomas Jefferson.

Dr. Michael Hudson Interview – Must Listen!

100 (revised), 300 (revised), 1000 (revised again), 4000 (now) Banks will close (Links to www.TheComingDepression.blogspot.com)

St. Louis Fed Charts – Banks Not Looking that Healthy at ALL…

Many charts and whitepaper on page.

Bank Failures 82-84

Bradford Bank Baltimore MD 28312 August 28, 2009 August 28, 2009
Affinity Bank Ventura CA 27197 August 28, 2009 August 28, 2009
Mainstreet Bank Forest Lake MN 1909 August 28, 2009 August 28, 2009

Treasury default in the cards?

It is not literally impossible that the Federal Reserve could unleash the Zimbabwe option and repudiate the national debt indirectly through hyperinflation, rather than have the Treasury repudiate it directly.

Peak Water, By Jim Quinn

“It should be obvious from simple arithmetic that population growth is on a direct collision course with increasingly scarce resources.” - Jeremy Grantham

42 Comments

VeganDB12's picture
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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Thank you Davos, you really are the man!

I regret I did not put a link to Andrew Speaker incident last evening, in case anyone is interested re:2007 TB scare (which was a little fishy to say the least)  It is incidents like this that are used to justify such a draconian quarantine order.  How odd that his father in law worked for the CDC and was a TB researcher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Speaker

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFluNews/story?id=8437630 what the flu lets the feds do to you (abc news)

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

I'm still not convinced on the concept of "Peak Water". Can someone shed some light on this for me? Or provide me with the key here? Because for me, there is a fixed amount of water on this planet. We have a fixed amount of salt water and we have a fixed amount of fresh water.

We can turn salt water into drinkable fresh water! We can clean our dirty fresh water and turn it into drinkable fresh water.

Yes this takes power, but we can also use solar and wind power to do this, which is *free* after installation costs.

In our current power-cost accounting system we attribute an overwhelming amount of the "cost" of transition from fossil fuel power to solar or wind power. In absolute terms, these accounting methods are absolutely bogus. Whereas fossil fuel power directly results in negative environmental effects, so-called "clean energy" does not. However, our myopic economic models do not take into account these factors, because we cannot measure them in our limited scope - the limited scope of our immediate concerns, the limited scope of a human lifetime, and the limited scope of our foresight.

Installing solar and wind plants to generate power, which can then desalinate or filter water for us to create drinking water is inevitably cheaper than current bottled water services, current water filtration, current water desalination, and any other aspect of the water industry that doesn't directly involve solar and wind power.

Can you please tell me if I am misled here... because as of now I am very skeptical about the "Peak Water" argument.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
rht1786 wrote:

I'm still not convinced on the concept of "Peak Water". Can someone shed some light on this for me? Or provide me with the key here? Because for me, there is a fixed amount of water on this planet. We have a fixed amount of salt water and we have a fixed amount of fresh water. We can turn salt water into drinkable fresh water! We can clean our dirty fresh water and turn it into drinkable fresh water. Yes this takes power, but we can also use solar and wind power to do this, which is *free* after installation costs. In our current power-cost accounting system we attribute an overwhelming amount of the "cost" of transition from fossil fuel power to solar or wind power. In absolute terms, these accounting methods are absolutely bogus. Whereas fossil fuel power directly results in negative environmental effects, so-called "clean energy" does not. However, our myopic economic models do not take into account these factors, because we cannot measure them in our limited scope - the limited scope of our immediate concerns, the limited scope of a human lifetime, and the limited scope of our foresight. Installing solar and wind plants to generate power, which can then desalinate or filter water for us to create drinking water is inevitably cheaper than current bottled water services, current water filtration, current water desalination, and any other aspect of the water industry that doesn't directly involve solar and wind power. Can you please tell me if I am misled here... because as of now I am very skeptical about the "Peak Water" argument.

I think where you take it from and how you use it will be key.  If you are taking from an aquifer that is slow at being replenished and water crops at a rate faster than the aquifer fills, then a lot of that water will be lost via transpiration from the plants, evaporation from the ground and run off into the surface out-flows.  If this is happening in the middle of a large land mass, you would clearly have a difficult and expensive problem to sort out.  Transporting water is not cheap

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

A really successful investor and a person who is extremely passionate about the environment pointed out to me that I may not be looking at things like Peak Oil correctly. He pointed out that the population is really the issue.

In other words: Peak Population.

In the case of water, my take on Jim's article, which was a speed read/skim was it has more to do with the concentration of the population and it's water needs.

We have family in Atlanta. A year ago they were telling me that to wash the Jag they had to drive it in the back yard so neighbors didn't blow them in. My heart bled for them (sarcasm, I drive 10 year old vehicles that haven't been washed in as many years).  The one water supply for the area isn't adequate to support the population. The same thing happened a few years back in Charlottesville at the UVA boathouse  where I rowed. During the drought the reservoir dropped, restrictions were put in place. The reservoir, man made, was designed with no thought of population expansion in mind.

Our immigration laws changed in the 1960s. IMHO this is another gaffe on the scale of the Federal Reserve Act. Congress really screwed this one up. We now have exponential growth and finite resources. Everything might not be an issue if we lived sustainably  and didn't concentrate 90% of the populous on one coast.

Hope that helps. Take care

PS One blog I follow is this one I recently started collection rainwater off the greenhouse/hen house and lean-to. I kick myself daily for not building an earth rammed home and for not using this brown water collection for toilet flushes etc.. On this blog they can even filter the water and use it for drinking. 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265

 

Make no mistake, immigration is killing us.  This is video is a must see.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

As with real estate, the three most important things about water are location, location, location.  The semi-arid and desert southwest is draining the Ogallala acquifer, the underground reservoir that has made agriculture possible in that region.  The Colorado River has been reduced to a trickle that enters Mexico because of the thirst of Las Vegas and Los Angeles.  This region has exploded in population in the past few decades, only part of which came from immigration.  Americans have been migrating there too.  Now, there is increasing interest in diverting Columbia River water south.  It's a never ending thirst that is draining the west.

OTOH, we here in the traditional rust belt are fat, dumb and happy because 20% of the world's surface fresh water is on our doorstep, the Great Lakes.  I don't think it's commonly known that there have been many schemes over the decades to divert that water to the dry southwest.  The 8 states and 2 Canadian provinces that have shoreline on the Great Lakes have banded together for those same decades to prevent such diversions.  The only significant diversion out of the basin currently is the Chicago ship canal, and that is a very small one.  This conflict hasn't reached crisis proportions yet because there is still water in the acquifer and agriculture in the Napa Valley hasn't been deprived yet.  But it will become a flash point down the road.

I have little doubt that at some point there will be a reverse migration back to this region because of its wealth of natural resources, including most importantly water, but also including forest products, agricultural land, fish and iron ore. 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
rocketgirl1 wrote:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265

 

Make no mistake, immigration is killing us.  This is video is a must see.

The guy that connected the dots for me supports the guy in the video. That and Bartlett helped me get it.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Davos on Dr. Michael Hudson Interview – Must Listen! This comment is how I feel & see it.

The American myth is embedded so strongly that even the economic collapse, all the bubbles, the mortgage crisis unfazes many Americans. They do not dwell into politics in a level as worldly as Mr. Orlov, yet I find it will take a massive shock unbeknownst to the American people to wake them up. Wall St. continues it's merry way and they system robs the American people to support these structures. A billion a day to the war effort, a system devoted to the corporations, as we are quite aware of by the governmental bailouts, are signs of massive corruption, yet Americans are so powerless as the "Old Guard" and their rantings at town hall meetings are given media priority.

Another interesting comment:

I know someone in the Northern California area who stopped paying his mortgage MONTHS ago and the bank has not even contacted him. He contacted the bank and they told him they were backed up and would contact him in the future. The bank has not yet followed up with him. Meanwhile he went and bought another home and has already moved. At the same time he is renting out the home he stopped paying on… F—NG crazy. I’m working my job like an idiot and he is making money by renting out a “stolen” home. ABSOLUTELY F—NG CRAZY!!!! Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t blame him. He is just doing EXACTLY what the banks are doing in collusion with the federal gov’t . But when you see it in context of an individual you see how messed up it really is.

This whole thing makes me sick. Atlas Shrugged is playing out in real life. This entire thing is a disgrace to what our nation was founded on… time to get our guns out and reform the banking industry… 1776 style…

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

I'm still not convinced on the concept of "Peak Water"... *snip*

The phrase "peak water" seems not quite the right phrase. 

However, there are a few problems with what you said.

1) Desalination (the process for turning salt water into fresh water) is very energy expensive.  Even solar energy isn't free: it takes people building, installing, monitoring, fixing, updating the equipment.  If solar power was truely 'free' after instalation, everyone would be installing it: it would be the perfect investment. A finite, initial payment, and infinite payouts.

Not only that, it takes very expensive equipment to run (big initial cost of desalination plant).  You acknowledged both of these.  However, there is a third problem: sea water is very corrosive.  The cost of running a system (even setting aside the energy cost) is NOT zero.  Pipes, valves, etc, all need to be replaced on a regular basis. People need to be employeed to monitor the system. 

2) Water transportation: water is very heavy and thus expensive to transport.  The average US family uses 69.3 gallons a day just for 'indoor use'.  That's 578 lbs of water.  Per household.  Each day. 

When it comes down to it, the water cycle is a great way to get water around.  It uses energy from the sun to desalinate the water (evaporation) and transport it (wind blowing humid air) to where it goes.  I'm not sure that any scientist could design a better system. 

The problem is, we're using more water than the water cycle can provide: IE we're 'spending' more we're 'earning'.  We do this by drawing down the water tables (our 'savings').  But just like in economics, this can't go on forever.  And there isn't a Federal Water Reserve that can print more water.  And there isn't anywhere we can borrow it from.  Once the water tables have been used up, there will be millions (probably billions) of people that don't have the water they need to live.  The water tables are not even, so this won't happen all at once, but it is starting to happen already.  With any system where we've 'lived outside our means' for a long time, we'll have to live below our means for a long time to get back to where we started.  Even if we just pull back to sustainability, it'll still be a huge change.  And societal changes like that are expensive.  What if you're the farmer that has been making ends meet by drawing down the water table?  What if you're the person eating the food grown by the farmer that has been making ends meet by drawing down the water table?  What if you're the rich person that wants to take a long shower each day that doesn't care about the "future"?  None of these people are going to change on their own.  They're only going to change when 1) the gov't forces change by taxing or other restrictions or 2) the water just isn't there anymore.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

As a resident of Massachusetts I was alarmed to see a similar post on our town listserv about the forced vaccination issue. However, a member of our community dug a little deeper, and came up with the following points. I am posting them here because they may be useful to others, but I cannot take credit for the work that went into them. Without knowing whether or how my source would want to be cited, I will simply put his initials. (R. D.) His comments begin below, I am interested to know what others think.

"I took 30 minutes to read the article (and referenced bill) and have summarized the snippets taken by the 'news source', and what they actually mean (snippet is in italics, response is in bold below italics). "
 
 
(Violation of 4th Amendment: Illegal search and seizure)

During either type of declared emergency, a local public health authority... may exercise authority... to require the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the premises; to close, direct, and compel the evacuation of, or to decontaminate or cause to be
decontaminated any building or facility; to destroy any material; to restrict or prohibit assemblages of persons;"

 
...an officer authorized to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated an order given to effectuate the purposes of this subsection and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such order.
 
The text here refers to section 2b of the bill, where the "premises" are not residences, but are facilities providing health care (e.g. nursing homes, community health centers, etc.)  Your source makes it sound like the state police will be coming into peoples' homes.
 
 
(Government price controls)

The attorney general, in consultation with the office of consumer affairs and business regulation, and upon the declaration by the governor that a supply emergency exists, shall take appropriate action to ensure that no person shall sell a product or service that is at a price that unreasonably exceeds the price charged before the emergency.
 
This means the government can prevent retailers from price gouging (i.e. taking advantage of a pandemic and charging exorbitant prices for goods - what's wrong with this provision)
 
 
"Involuntary Transportation" (also known as kidnapping)

Law enforcement authorities, upon order of the commissioner or his agent or at the request of a local public health authority pursuant to such order, shall assist emergency medical technicians or other appropriate medical personnel in the involuntary transportation of such person to the tuberculosis treatment center.Right, this pertains to someone having tuberculosis,
 
This amends Chapter 111, section 94A, which already allows for the involuntary transportation of a tuberculosis patient who refuses treatment, due to the chronic nature of the disease and its easy spread.
 
 
$1,000 / day in fines

Any person who knowingly violates an order, as to which noncompliance
poses a serious danger to public health as determined by the commissioner or the local public health authority, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 30 days or a fine of not more than one thousand dollars per day that the violation continues, or both.

This refers to someone refusing an order to go to the hospital or practice self-quarantine, not to someone refusing vaccine
 
Forced vaccinations

Furthermore, when the commissioner or a local public health authority within its jurisdiction determines that either or both of the following measures are necessary to prevent a serious danger to the public health the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the following authority: (1) to vaccinate or provide precautionary prophylaxis to individuals as protection against communicable disease...
 
Forced quarantine for those who refuse (illegal imprisonment without charge)

An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96 of chapter 111 if his or her refusal poses a serious danger to public health or results in uncertainty whether he or she has been exposed to or is infected with a disease or condition that poses a serious danger to public health, as determined by the commissioner, or a local public health authority operating within its jurisdiction.
 
This does not force vaccination.  However, it does allow quarantine if there is a high likelihood the person refusing has been or will be exposed. The quarantine in section 96 chapter 111 can be self-quarantine in one's home, in fact the law amends existing statute to make it clear an individual can define their home as a "hospital".

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Treasuray Default on the Cards

[I]n 1950, federal debt in the hands of the public was 80 percent of GDP, which is in the ballpark of what we’re looking at for 2019. By 1960 it was down to 46 percent — and I haven’t heard that anyone considered America a debt-crippled nation when JFK took office.

So how was that possible? Was it through drastic cuts in defense spending? On the contrary: we’re talking about the height of the Cold War (with a hot war in Korea along the way), and federal spending actually rose as a share of GDP. So yes, it wasn’t entitlement programs, but it wasn’t exactly discretionary either.

How, then, did America pay down its debt? Actually, it didn’t: federal debt rose from $219 billion in 1950 to $237 billion in 1960. But the economy grew, so the ratio of debt to GDP fell, and everything worked out fiscally.

At this time the US was still at the manufacturing heart of the world economy and was creating real wealth, the article is a comparing apples and oranges a here.  Of course for many other western economies who rebuilt after the war, I don't think this applies either as jobs have been exported to the far east.  In the UK, there have been a few programs talking of the post war austerity years and the need to contain the movement of sterling out of the country and the need to generate cash via exports. 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
yagasjai wrote:

As a resident of Massachusetts I was alarmed to see a similar post on our town listserv about the forced vaccination issue. However, a member of our community dug a little deeper, and came up with the following points. I am posting them here because they may be useful to others, but I cannot take credit for the work that went into them. Without knowing whether or how my source would want to be cited, I will simply put his initials. (R. D.) His comments begin below, I am interested to know what others think.

"I took 30 minutes to read the article (and referenced bill) and have summarized the snippets taken by the 'news source', and what they actually mean (snippet is in italics, response is in bold below italics). "
 
 
(Violation of 4th Amendment: Illegal search and seizure)

During either type of declared emergency, a local public health authority... may exercise authority... to require the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the premises; to close, direct, and compel the evacuation of, or to decontaminate or cause to be
decontaminated any building or facility; to destroy any material; to restrict or prohibit assemblages of persons;"

 
...an officer authorized to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated an order given to effectuate the purposes of this subsection and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such order.
 
The text here refers to section 2b of the bill, where the "premises" are not residences, but are facilities providing health care (e.g. nursing homes, community health centers, etc.)  Your source makes it sound like the state police will be coming into peoples' homes.
 
 
(Government price controls)

The attorney general, in consultation with the office of consumer affairs and business regulation, and upon the declaration by the governor that a supply emergency exists, shall take appropriate action to ensure that no person shall sell a product or service that is at a price that unreasonably exceeds the price charged before the emergency.
 
This means the government can prevent retailers from price gouging (i.e. taking advantage of a pandemic and charging exorbitant prices for goods - what's wrong with this provision)
 
 
"Involuntary Transportation" (also known as kidnapping)

Law enforcement authorities, upon order of the commissioner or his agent or at the request of a local public health authority pursuant to such order, shall assist emergency medical technicians or other appropriate medical personnel in the involuntary transportation of such person to the tuberculosis treatment center.Right, this pertains to someone having tuberculosis,
 
This amends Chapter 111, section 94A, which already allows for the involuntary transportation of a tuberculosis patient who refuses treatment, due to the chronic nature of the disease and its easy spread.
 
 
$1,000 / day in fines

Any person who knowingly violates an order, as to which noncompliance
poses a serious danger to public health as determined by the commissioner or the local public health authority, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 30 days or a fine of not more than one thousand dollars per day that the violation continues, or both.

This refers to someone refusing an order to go to the hospital or practice self-quarantine, not to someone refusing vaccine
 
Forced vaccinations

Furthermore, when the commissioner or a local public health authority within its jurisdiction determines that either or both of the following measures are necessary to prevent a serious danger to the public health the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the following authority: (1) to vaccinate or provide precautionary prophylaxis to individuals as protection against communicable disease...
 
Forced quarantine for those who refuse (illegal imprisonment without charge)

An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96 of chapter 111 if his or her refusal poses a serious danger to public health or results in uncertainty whether he or she has been exposed to or is infected with a disease or condition that poses a serious danger to public health, as determined by the commissioner, or a local public health authority operating within its jurisdiction.
 
This does not force vaccination.  However, it does allow quarantine if there is a high likelihood the person refusing has been or will be exposed. The quarantine in section 96 chapter 111 can be self-quarantine in one's home, in fact the law amends existing statute to make it clear an individual can define their home as a "hospital".

Hello Yagaskai:

Thanks for the intel. I'll email the newsletter founder and ask him WTH he got his take on this. I'm assuming your source is accurate. One thing about these bills is that they need to have a simple English easy to understand verbage with plenty of examples.

Take care

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
idoctor wrote:

Davos on Dr. Michael Hudson Interview – Must Listen! This comment is how I feel & see it.

The American myth is embedded so strongly that even the economic collapse, all the bubbles, the mortgage crisis unfazes many Americans. They do not dwell into politics in a level as worldly as Mr. Orlov, yet I find it will take a massive shock unbeknownst to the American people to wake them up. Wall St. continues it's merry way and they system robs the American people to support these structures. A billion a day to the war effort, a system devoted to the corporations, as we are quite aware of by the governmental bailouts, are signs of massive corruption, yet Americans are so powerless as the "Old Guard" and their rantings at town hall meetings are given media priority.

Another interesting comment:

I know someone in the Northern California area who stopped paying his mortgage MONTHS ago and the bank has not even contacted him. He contacted the bank and they told him they were backed up and would contact him in the future. The bank has not yet followed up with him. Meanwhile he went and bought another home and has already moved. At the same time he is renting out the home he stopped paying on… F—NG crazy. I’m working my job like an idiot and he is making money by renting out a “stolen” home. ABSOLUTELY F—NG CRAZY!!!! Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t blame him. He is just doing EXACTLY what the banks are doing in collusion with the federal gov’t . But when you see it in context of an individual you see how messed up it really is.

This whole thing makes me sick. Atlas Shrugged is playing out in real life. This entire thing is a disgrace to what our nation was founded on… time to get our guns out and reform the banking industry… 1776 style…

Hello iDoctor:

I'll listen to it this evening. I know there are millions of folks living with the NODs. I was unaware there were folks living without NODs. I'm a bit concerned of what will happen to them if the loans aren't adjusted in the end and if the banks collect or try to. I have read stories where people walked only to find the county coming after them when their expectation that the bank would take over didn't pan out.

Quite a mess.

Take care

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

(Violation of 4th Amendment: Illegal search and seizure)

During either type of declared emergency, a local public health authority... may exercise authority... to require the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the premises; to close, direct, and compel the evacuation of, or to decontaminate or cause to be
decontaminated any building or facility; to destroy any material; to restrict or prohibit assemblages of persons;"

 
...an officer authorized to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated an order given to effectuate the purposes of this subsection and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such order.
 
The text here refers to section 2b of the bill, where the "premises" are not residences, but are facilities providing health care (e.g. nursing homes, community health centers, etc.)  Your source makes it sound like the state police will be coming into peoples' homes.

I checked the first debunking out and your source seems to have gotten it wrong.

Section 2B goes to great lengths to define "health-care facility" and then uses that term precisely through the rest of the section.  It also refers to "premises" in a distinctly different fashion.  

In an above section "premises" is used in conjunction with real estate and is not subsequently modified to constrain it to "health care facilities" as noted above.

Here's the link to bill.

Without going into the remaining pieces of the 'debunking' above because it is too nice out, the parts of the bill that I take gross exception to are the various parts where all state workers are granted broad immunity from any liability resulting from their decisions or actions while citizens are firmly bound to the rule of law and accountability for their actions.

No law enforcement authority or medical personnel shall be held criminally or civilly liable as a result of an act or omission carried out in good faith in reliance on said order.

You know what?  If being held accountable for their actions is considered a good thing for citizens, why not public officials?  Is there something different that happens when a person assumes a public mantle over a private sector role?  I want whatever rules promote good decision-making and to me accountability and personal responsibility are right at the very top of that list.

Somewhat disturbingly to me, below we see that warrant less arrest is authorized and that if one refuses an order (which can be verbal, by the way) the fact that your actions were in no way a risk to public health may not be used in your defense.

If a person does not comply with the order, and if the commissioner or the local public health authority determines that non-compliance poses a serious danger to public health, upon request or issuance of an order by the commissioner or local public health authority, an officer authorized to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated such an order and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such order.

(...)

Any person who knowingly violates an order, as to which non-compliance poses a serious danger to public health as determined by the commissioner or the local public health authority, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 30 days or a fine of not more than one thousand dollars per day that the violation continues, or both.

It shall not be a defense to a prosecution for this offense that the commissioner or the local public health authority erroneously determined that non-compliance would pose a serious danger to public health, if the commissioner or local public health authority was acting in good faith under color of official authority.

Now, I admit to not being a lawyer or all that aware of legal intricacies, but it seems to me that pre-limiting the evidence a potential future suspect can offer in their defense is not exactly up to the fine legal tradition of this country.  Perhaps I have misread this language somehow...

But the way it reads is that if you refuse an order, such as being ordered to go to a quarantine center teeming with the illness while you rationally decided to quarantine in place while symptom free, the fact that this was in your and the public's best interests would not be a permissible defense.  Tough luck, I guess.

In short, this bill, in my mind, is well-intentioned but went seriously off the rails with respect to balancing power, risks, and rights.

As is par for the course these days, it went off the rails in favor of government power over individual rights, gave a lot of legal weight to potential risks and that's what I mainly object to.  IU do not object to the intent of the bill, but rather its heavy-handed approach and "us vs. them" tone which strikes me as more antogonistic than comforting.

 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
cmartenson wrote:

 Not the intent of the bill, but its heavy-handed approach and "us vs. them" mentality.

 

I'm sure when we are quarenteened in the FEMA camps that our Congresspeople will be there with us as will the elected officials behind these Nazi bills so we can talk to them there. HA!

BTW, after reading about the 1918 pendemic in "The Great Influnza" one thing became apparent, the government made the flu WORSE not better. Like everything else they administer, their intent is super but their ability is beyond pathetic, from Soical Security, to Medicare, to the Deficit to the budget, they are clearly inept and totally incabpable.

Less would be better.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

The truth would be nice too.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Truth would be a plus!

Not to get polictical, Grayson, Paul and Sherman are good eggs, the rest should go. I'm deeply dissapointed to see only 57% would replace everyone in Congress.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Obviously they had trouble reaching most of us!  Perhaps the CM members are unlisted? 99 percent seems like a better goal.  Let's see how midterms go :)

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Healthcare whistleblower interview
Quote:

In June 2007, Wendell Potter was head of corporate communications at Cigna, one of the largest health insurance companies in America, when he attended the U.S. premiere of Michael Moore’s Sicko. Potter was part of the team charged with discrediting Moore’s film, which advance word said was highly critical of the health insurance industry. Potter “sat quietly in the back and took notes,” but soon realized he had a problem. “When I saw the movie, I’ll be honest: I thought it was a real good documentary. I knew from my own studies of other healthcare systems that it was an accurate portrayal of those systems and how they are able to provide universal coverage.” Yet he was being paid by Cigna to tell people the opposite, that the film was full of lies.

http://www.guernicamag.com/spotlight/1207/the_last_temptation_of_wendell/

Now, I'm not and have never been a fan of the government getting involved in healthcare, but after reading this interview, gee whiz, I don't know what to think.

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Party Like its 1991

And I thought it was 2003.....from Doug Noland's weekly post.

Party Like It's 1991:

On CNBC yesterday Richard Bernstein commented on some of the similarities he’s seeing between 2009 and 1991.  I have been rambling in our meetings for months now how this year brings back memories of 1991.  Going into the first Iraq war, bearish sentiment was extreme.  The bears had made a killing in 1990, while the bulls were downtrodden and depressed.  The U.S. banking system was a bloody mess, and the economy was sinking fast.  As the war approached, the market feared Saddam’s military had the capacity to both put up a fight and strike at Saudi oil fields.

But with the January 17th launch of Operation Desert Storm it became immediately clear that Iraq was no match whatsoever for the highly sophisticated and well-equipped U.S. armed forces.  The S&P500 rallied 3.7% on the 17th and didn’t look back.

The 1991 market rally caught the bulls underinvested and the bears highly exposed.  Both camps waited anxiously for a pullback to get their positions in order.  Not uncharacteristically, Mr. Market was in no mood to accommodate.  Mr. Bernstein noted that the riskier stocks gained 90% during 1991, only somewhat ahead of the 85% gain he said this category has gained so far this year.  Indeed, a huge short squeeze led the 1991 market rally.  This dynamic severely punished the bears, while the generally cautious bulls were for awhile left unsatisfied.

Throughout 1991, there were ample reasons for the bears to maintain bearishness and the bulls to stay cautious.  The economic recovery was anemic, with Q2’s 2.7% GDP recovery followed by weak reports in 1991’s Q3 (positive 1.7%) and Q4 (positive 1.6%).  Unemployment began the year at 6.3%, only to rise to 7.3% by year end – on its way to the cycle peak of 7.8% posted in June 1992.  Personal Income and Spending both lagged.  The fiscal situation was dismal ($269bn deficit in 1991) and projected to get even worse ($290bn in 1992).  Ten-year bond yields began 1991 at about 8% and were above 8.2% at the year’s midpoint.  The thrill of watching the Fed collapse interest rates had yet to be experienced - and wasn't yet even contemplated.

After beginning 1991 at 7.0%, the Fed funds rate was cut repeatedly to an – at that time – extraordinary 3.0% by September 2002.  The Greenspan Federal Reserve fashioned a very steep yield curve to ensure the impaired banking system easy profits – a dynamic that also provided easy speculative returns to the Wall Street firms and the fledgling hedge fund industry.  It wasn’t long until speculation was running rampant throughout the stock and bond markets.

It is my view that this past year’s unprecedented fiscal and monetary policy response has unleashed powerful speculative forces throughout the global markets.  Recalling 1991, a major short squeeze has again propelled the general market higher.  The unwind of systemic risk hedges has also surely played a major role in newfound marketplace liquidity abundance – both in equities and fixed income.  And there is absolutely nothing like the confluence of extended ultra-cheap “money”, highly liquid markets, and speculative froth to keep the marketplace focused beyond the valley to the hopeful return of prosperity.

It is with this in mind that it is worth mentioning the market’s inattention to terrible budget data released this week.  This year’s deficit is now slated at $1.58 TN, or 11.2% of GDP (largest since WWII).  Spending will increase 24%, the strongest increase since the Korean War (from the WSJ).  The White House increased its estimate for the 2010 shortfall by $200bn to $1.50 TN (40% of federal revenues).  Worst of all, the estimate for 10-year deficits was raised $2.0 TN to a staggering $9.0 TN.  It was difficult to gauge who cared less – bonds or stocks.

And I understand the fundamental case for disregarding these types of long-term budget forecasts.  The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) saw deficits as far as the eye could see back in the early nineties.  Actual deficits turned to nice surpluses by the end of the decade.  And looking back at year 2000 projections, the CBO penciled in a $400bn surplus for 2009 and better than $3.0 TN of cumulative surplus for this decade.   A speculative marketplace easily ignored this week's projections.

I have my own explanation for why the CBO projections were so off in both the early nineties and earlier this decade:  the historic expansion of “Wall Street finance.”  The Securities Broker/Dealers began the nineties with assets of $237 billion, ended 1999 at $1.0 TN, and peaked at $3.1 TN in 2007.  The GSE started 1990 with assets of $454bn, ended the decade at $1.732 TN and concluded 2008 at $3.458 TN.  The ABS market began the nineties at $210bn, ended 1999 at $1.313 TN and peaked in 2007 at $4.5 TN.  I don’t have data for hedge fund positions, “repos,” or the collateralized debt obligation (CDO) market - but all would have the same Bubble trajectory.  

While the U.S. banking system was severely impaired to begin the nineties, this fact did not prove bearish for the economy, the markets or federal government finances.  A historic “Wall Street” Credit Bubble was cultivated and then championed by the Greenspan Fed.  This massive expansion of Credit created abundant liquidity for spectacular asset Bubbles, a dramatic inflation in government receipts and spending, and a consumption boom like the world had never experienced.  And, importantly, the reflationary boom in Wall Street finance worked to repair and rejuvenate the bank Credit-creating mechanism – until last year's collapse left everyone (but the federal government) starved for Credit and liquidity.

So what about today?  It’s not difficult for an increasingly speculative stock market to dream it’s 1991 all over again.  Many believe the economy’s previous growth trajectory can be reestablished and the great bull market resumed.  Others simply see a very fruitful speculative backdrop.  Most believe that the recovering markets are a reflection of growth prospects and that the buoyant stock market is discounting the return of the economy to sound footing.  The bullish consensus believes economic recovery will work to cure housing and financial sector ills, as it did during the nineties.  

I believe the bullish consensus is misguided.  First and foremost, it is the Credit system driving the real economy - not vice-versa.  Only massive fiscal and monetary stimulus was  capable of stabilizing the system.  Total non-financial Credit expanded $470 billion 1991.  It is my view that the maladjusted U.S. “Bubble” economy will require non-financial Credit growth of at least $2.0 TN this year.  With the banking system and Wall Street finance severely impaired, “federal” (Treasury, agency, GSE MBS) Credit will account for the vast majority of system Credit growth this year.  

The unprecedented expansion of “federal” Credit has stabilized the system and incited a speculative run in the stock market.  But I just don’t see the mechanism for private-sector Credit to recover to the point of carrying the heavy load necessary to sufficiently finance the gluttonous U.S. economy.  I don’t see a new boom in Wall Street Credit instruments in the offing, and it’s difficult to see how bank Credit can recover adequately on its own.  So, as far as they eye can see, the system is left with “federal” Credit.

I expect this week’s dire deficit projections from the White House and CBO to this time be much more on the mark.  I also believe it matters greatly to both the U.S. economy and markets that our government has become the predominant source of system finance.  Granted, it may not matter so much right now as artificial recoveries flourish in the markets and economy.  But those believing the stock market is forecasting a happy ending to this, the latest stage of the Bubble, will again be disappointed.  I haven’t forgotten how the Wall Street boom papered over a lot of problems and structural issues.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

ICN News

Debt Slave

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Affert remarks are accurate.  While the natural water cycle replenishes fresh water for us, in many areas we are using it faster than the recycle rate, especially during drier years.  And in some cases we're adding pollutants that aren't getting removed naturally.

Desalination is incredibly expensive and power intensive on a large scale. One could build solar powered stills for potable water I suppose, but it would be impractical for the typical consumption of 70+ gal/person per day in a household (I typically see 150 gal/home/day on average, not counting lost water in leaking water mains etc).  And building solar or wind powered plants on a huge scale requires a huge amount of energy and resources and money; peak oil and a declining economy are therefore opposing factors.

I work in the water industry.  Even in the relatively water rich northeast I see all the "low hanging fruit" has been picked for water supplies.  Some formerly good sources have been contaminated or were developed for other uses.  Yet water is still wicked cheap to me.  We design plants to provide whatever total rate is demanded in a service area.  Only when sources are extremely strained do we start to place limits on usage.  

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Marc Faber

Peter Schiff

FDIC insurance limit & The Mafia

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

The problem as we can see here is that this bill can be INTERPRETED in too many ways.  As the first person interpreted it in which it can be used for evil, your source interpreted it to be used for good.  Something this important should be strait forward.  If the gov't CHOSE to use it for evil, it could be done.  Needless to say, I don't trust this gov't and I trust the MA gov't as much as the US....

 

yagasjai wrote:

As a resident of Massachusetts I was alarmed to see a similar post on our town listserv about the forced vaccination issue. However, a member of our community dug a little deeper, and came up with the following points. I am posting them here because they may be useful to others, but I cannot take credit for the work that went into them. Without knowing whether or how my source would want to be cited, I will simply put his initials. (R. D.) His comments begin below, I am interested to know what others think.

"I took 30 minutes to read the article (and referenced bill) and have summarized the snippets taken by the 'news source', and what they actually mean (snippet is in italics, response is in bold below italics). "
 
 
(Violation of 4th Amendment: Illegal search and seizure)

During either type of declared emergency, a local public health authority... may exercise authority... to require the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the premises; to close, direct, and compel the evacuation of, or to decontaminate or cause to be
decontaminated any building or facility; to destroy any material; to restrict or prohibit assemblages of persons;"

  
...an officer authorized to serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person whom the officer has probable cause to believe has violated an order given to effectuate the purposes of this subsection and shall use reasonable diligence to enforce such order.
 
The text here refers to section 2b of the bill, where the "premises" are not residences, but are facilities providing health care (e.g. nursing homes, community health centers, etc.)  Your source makes it sound like the state police will be coming into peoples' homes.
 
 
(Government price controls)

The attorney general, in consultation with the office of consumer affairs and business regulation, and upon the declaration by the governor that a supply emergency exists, shall take appropriate action to ensure that no person shall sell a product or service that is at a price that unreasonably exceeds the price charged before the emergency.
 
This means the government can prevent retailers from price gouging (i.e. taking advantage of a pandemic and charging exorbitant prices for goods - what's wrong with this provision)
 
 
"Involuntary Transportation" (also known as kidnapping)

Law enforcement authorities, upon order of the commissioner or his agent or at the request of a local public health authority pursuant to such order, shall assist emergency medical technicians or other appropriate medical personnel in the involuntary transportation of such person to the tuberculosis treatment center.Right, this pertains to someone having tuberculosis,
 
This amends Chapter 111, section 94A, which already allows for the involuntary transportation of a tuberculosis patient who refuses treatment, due to the chronic nature of the disease and its easy spread.
 
 
$1,000 / day in fines

Any person who knowingly violates an order, as to which noncompliance
poses a serious danger to public health as determined by the commissioner or the local public health authority, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 30 days or a fine of not more than one thousand dollars per day that the violation continues, or both.

This refers to someone refusing an order to go to the hospital or practice self-quarantine, not to someone refusing vaccine
 
Forced vaccinations

Furthermore, when the commissioner or a local public health authority within its jurisdiction determines that either or both of the following measures are necessary to prevent a serious danger to the public health the commissioner or local public health authority may exercise the following authority: (1) to vaccinate or provide precautionary prophylaxis to individuals as protection against communicable disease...
 
Forced quarantine for those who refuse (illegal imprisonment without charge)

An individual who is unable or unwilling to submit to vaccination or treatment shall not be required to submit to such procedures but may be isolated or quarantined pursuant to section 96 of chapter 111 if his or her refusal poses a serious danger to public health or results in uncertainty whether he or she has been exposed to or is infected with a disease or condition that poses a serious danger to public health, as determined by the commissioner, or a local public health authority operating within its jurisdiction.
 
This does not force vaccination.  However, it does allow quarantine if there is a high likelihood the person refusing has been or will be exposed. The quarantine in section 96 chapter 111 can be self-quarantine in one's home, in fact the law amends existing statute to make it clear an individual can define their home as a "hospital".

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
Davos wrote:

 

Our immigration laws changed in the 1960s. IMHO this is another gaffe on the scale of the Federal Reserve Act. Congress really screwed this one up. We now have exponential growth and finite resources. Everything might not be an issue if we lived sustainably  and didn't concentrate 90% of the populous on one coast.

Hi Davos,

As always, thanks for the great links.

I am very curious at your meaning behind this statement? Were you refering to the immigration system in general, or people coming up from mexico, or how when people come up from mexico and have kids here the kids have access to free health care, or the view that immigrants are 'taking our jobs?'

Many people in america don't realize getting into the states legally is very difficult, and expencive, and time consuming. Depending on what country the person is from it is all but impossable without a wealthy petitioner (or someone well established) as the person's cosigner, and even then it is very expencive and time consuming and legally draining.

Frankly speaking, it would be easier for people to fly to mexico, and come up the border....hence the reason the real problem is Mexico, and the immigration system itself.

Anyway, I havent watched the google video yet because it wont come up here at work, so I thought I would ask.

Thanks,

Mike

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Yagasji,

Thank you for your reasoned analysis of this issue. While nobody wants to live in a Fascist state, I don't think most people realize the seriousness of medical emergencies and pandemic situations. If situations like this occur, people are going to be screaming if the government doesn't quarantine  and attempt to treat everybody with the disease, and for good reason. Have you seen the pandemic spread projection scenarios? Those are more frightening than any of the financial gloom we're talking about on CM.com!

 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
Davos wrote:
idoctor wrote:

Davos on Dr. Michael Hudson Interview – Must Listen! This comment is how I feel & see it.

The American myth is embedded so strongly that even the economic collapse, all the bubbles, the mortgage crisis unfazes many Americans. They do not dwell into politics in a level as worldly as Mr. Orlov, yet I find it will take a massive shock unbeknownst to the American people to wake them up. Wall St. continues it's merry way and they system robs the American people to support these structures. A billion a day to the war effort, a system devoted to the corporations, as we are quite aware of by the governmental bailouts, are signs of massive corruption, yet Americans are so powerless as the "Old Guard" and their rantings at town hall meetings are given media priority.

Another interesting comment:

I know someone in the Northern California area who stopped paying his mortgage MONTHS ago and the bank has not even contacted him. He contacted the bank and they told him they were backed up and would contact him in the future. The bank has not yet followed up with him. Meanwhile he went and bought another home and has already moved. At the same time he is renting out the home he stopped paying on… F—NG crazy. I’m working my job like an idiot and he is making money by renting out a “stolen” home. ABSOLUTELY F—NG CRAZY!!!! Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t blame him. He is just doing EXACTLY what the banks are doing in collusion with the federal gov’t . But when you see it in context of an individual you see how messed up it really is.

This whole thing makes me sick. Atlas Shrugged is playing out in real life. This entire thing is a disgrace to what our nation was founded on… time to get our guns out and reform the banking industry… 1776 style…

Hello iDoctor:

I'll listen to it this evening. I know there are millions of folks living with the NODs. I was unaware there were folks living without NODs. I'm a bit concerned of what will happen to them if the loans aren't adjusted in the end and if the banks collect or try to. I have read stories where people walked only to find the county coming after them when their expectation that the bank would take over didn't pan out.

Quite a mess.

Take care

This really is a MUST LISTEN.. I have sent this to just about everyone I know.

Cat

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
Davos wrote:
cmartenson wrote:

 Not the intent of the bill, but its heavy-handed approach and "us vs. them" mentality.

 

I'm sure when we are quarenteened in the FEMA camps that our Congresspeople will be there with us as will the elected officials behind these Nazi bills so we can talk to them there. HA!

BTW, after reading about the 1918 pendemic in "The Great Influnza" one thing became apparent, the government made the flu WORSE not better. Like everything else they administer, their intent is super but their ability is beyond pathetic, from Soical Security, to Medicare, to the Deficit to the budget, they are clearly inept and totally incabpable.

Less would be better.

Davos, I appreciate what you do here and much of what you write, but this posting is over the line. Perhaps it's just the pure Libertarian perspective that is too much for me. There's been to much hysteria spread recently, and injecting the Nazi reference is just too much. I'll repeat what I wrote in my other reply - during an outbreak of an ugly bug that is spreading to such an extent that these laws come into effect, you're going to glad that they're quarantining people.

As for what happened during the 1918 pandemic, I think the CDC has learned something and has come a long way from almost 100 years ago. I would far rather live in a country that actually has a CDC and tries to do what science shows to be effective in limiting the spread, than live in a Libertarian nation where every citizen is assumed to have the brains to do the right thing. You know what would happen in that case? There would be lynch squads patrolling the street, shooting anybody who even looked like they were carrying the plague. You may find the government inept, but it's 1000x better than the anarchistic alternative.

And since when has SS and Medicare become the epitome of government ineptitude? Again, the programs may not be perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. Do you know how many of our elderly would by living in the streets and dying of horrible diseases if not for these programs? My father-in-law fought with small cell lung cancer for several years. If not for these programs he would have lived 30 days and he wouldn't have had a place to live. As a WWII vet without any savings, he had nothing. Sure, family would have tried to take care of him, but we would have been bankrupt after the first round of therapy.

It's so easy to criticize and cast aspersions at what we have. But I guarantee you, throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the solution unless your solution is to overthrow the government and create some sort of Mad-Maxx anarchy. Yea, that would be so much better than what we have!

 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
that1guy wrote:
Davos wrote:

 

Our immigration laws changed in the 1960s. IMHO this is another gaffe on the scale of the Federal Reserve Act. Congress really screwed this one up. We now have exponential growth and finite resources. Everything might not be an issue if we lived sustainably  and didn't concentrate 90% of the populous on one coast.

Anyway, I havent watched the google video yet because it wont come up here at work, so I thought I would ask.

Hello Mike:

The video that RocketGirl1 posted will answer it.

Before I was pointed ot the video I had a convoluted impression about immigration.

Also, please note, my Grandfather and Grandmother on both sides were all imigrants. The one from Russia could have saved me a trip and the one from Switzerland should have told the one from Russia and the one from England to go to Switzerland - my life would now have been better! No, all kidding aside, what I'm trying to say is that knocking more people coming to the USA is for me an issue I grapple with. Everyone should have a good life, but the video is right, too many is just one more problem we now face.

To answer your question: And I'm pressed for time so can't skim the video and going by memory so my numbers are likley off: Legal immigration was changed from low 6 figures per year to over a million. Illigal immigration is really very, very low 6 figures. Now the legal immigration is the problem. Letting over a million immigrate per year leads to exponential growth. He does a marble demonstration that really got my attention.

Hope that helps, take care

 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30
tedsan wrote:
Davos wrote:
cmartenson wrote:

 Not the intent of the bill, but its heavy-handed approach and "us vs. them" mentality.

 

I'm sure when we are quarenteened in the FEMA camps that our Congresspeople will be there with us as will the elected officials behind these Nazi bills so we can talk to them there. HA!

BTW, after reading about the 1918 pendemic in "The Great Influnza" one thing became apparent, the government made the flu WORSE not better. Like everything else they administer, their intent is super but their ability is beyond pathetic, from Soical Security, to Medicare, to the Deficit to the budget, they are clearly inept and totally incabpable.

Less would be better.

Davos, I appreciate what you do here and much of what you write, but this posting is over the line. Perhaps it's just the pure Libertarian perspective that is too much for me. There's been to much hysteria spread recently, and injecting the Nazi reference is just too much. I'll repeat what I wrote in my other reply - during an outbreak of an ugly bug that is spreading to such an extent that these laws come into effect, you're going to glad that they're quarantining people.

As for what happened during the 1918 pandemic, I think the CDC has learned something and has come a long way from almost 100 years ago. I would far rather live in a country that actually has a CDC and tries to do what science shows to be effective in limiting the spread, than live in a Libertarian nation where every citizen is assumed to have the brains to do the right thing. You know what would happen in that case? There would be lynch squads patrolling the street, shooting anybody who even looked like they were carrying the plague. You may find the government inept, but it's 1000x better than the anarchistic alternative.

And since when has SS and Medicare become the epitome of government ineptitude? Again, the programs may not be perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. Do you know how many of our elderly would by living in the streets and dying of horrible diseases if not for these programs? My father-in-law fought with small cell lung cancer for several years. If not for these programs he would have lived 30 days and he wouldn't have had a place to live. As a WWII vet without any savings, he had nothing. Sure, family would have tried to take care of him, but we would have been bankrupt after the first round of therapy.

It's so easy to criticize and cast aspersions at what we have. But I guarantee you, throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the solution unless your solution is to overthrow the government and create some sort of Mad-Maxx anarchy. Yea, that would be so much better than what we have!

 

Hello TedSan:

I totally disagree with you. These people are the definition of ineptitude. They are absolute m_ _ _ ns  who can't find their @ss with an audible GPS, a map, both hands and the lights on.

They will make the Super Dome in Katrina look good.

The baby needs to go out with the bath water.

These illegal laws are Nazi like. Searchless warrents, kidnapping, FEMA camps. Call me anything you want. This is utter and absolute BS, saying this is for our own good would be like boarding the concentration camp train thinking that work will set us free.

Pendemics happen. These m _ _ _ ns need to find a way to quarentine people in their own homes, isolate villages and cities if necessary, keep accurate statistics. Putting the people on the board of the WHO after their compnay releases H5N1 to 17 countries in live viral format defines inept.

I could go on but I'm not going to. The CDC doesn't have the funds or the manpower to handle this correctly, the other organizations will make a mess of this. I gaurantee it.

Less is better when it comes to moronic behavior.

PS Maybe asking these questions will help you understand my point of view:

  1. Did we know about ground zero in Mexico (Yes)
  2. Did we stop air and car travel from Mexica (No)
  3. Did we send in food and medical supplies and "drop" them in the city stopping the need for outbound travel (No)
  4. Did we just watch and let the thing spread from Mexico across the globe (Yup)

That to me is NOT logical. It lacks common sense and intelligence. Anyone who $crews up 4 times with a biggie like this is inept and deserves less not more chances. We don't need to prepetuate stupidity in the name of fear.

And, oh by the way, I'd encourage you to read "The Great Influnza". Many things were bought to light in that book. 

 

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The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US fiscal deficit

A great perspective on China and the US Treasury market. Be forewarned, its flies in the face of the blogosphere perspective. Read this at you own risk.

The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US fiscal deficit? Who knew?

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Dollar Devaluation Madness

I'm posting this here in hopes that Davos will include it in a future Digest. Its an excellent article by Mish, and I think it provides a much-needed opposing point of view on many of the topics discussed in this forum. Its rather long, but concludes with the following:

Predictably Wrong

Maybe something happens in November, maybe not, but this dollar implosion countdown based on unnamed sources regarding impossible to believe demands and a trade chart interpreted assbackwards is more than just a bit silly. Yet, every day someone asks me about it, thus this reply.

The thing about these kind of predictions is how predictably wrong they have all been.

Based on interpretations of the Commitment of Traders Reports (COT) we have see a couple countdowns to running out of gold and or silver on COMEX by various people. Those never happened. We have seen "gold to the moon" hyperinflation calls based on backwardation. Those never happened, either.

There is also a bunch of hype going around right now about bank holidays and a devaluation of the dollar vs. all major currencies coming up this Autumn. The across the board dollar devaluation idea is potty because the US dollar floats. There is nothing to devalue it to. And even if there was, Europe and Japan do not want stronger currencies and would not go along. For that matter the US would not want to do it either fearing a market crash. Yet, the theories persist.

If something does happen in November, it will not be because some blogger knows something. It will be happenstance.

But for those counting, it's about 70 days. I can hardly wait.

Simply stated, I could not agree with Mish more on this subject(s). 

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Re: The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US ...
JAG wrote:

A great perspective on China and the US Treasury market. Be forewarned, its flies in the face of the blogosphere perspective. Read this at you own risk.

The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US fiscal deficit? Who knew?

Hello JAG:

I only skimmed this and will read it when I have a second. Looks quite good. I often wondered what would happen if the equity market tanked and people had a "preceived" flight to safety into securities. I wondered if that would save Bernanke's but. The deficit is about 2 trillion per year now and growing. I think if I recall there are about 12 trillion in equities. If they tanked I'm sure a good part would get out and into bonds/cash. 

I think the key to how this thing plays out will be what goes first. If it is the dollar - then the article is null and void. If it is the banks ibid. If the stock market goes first then yup, I think this could happen.

Who knows.

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Hello Jag: Email me a link and I'll post Mish's view. I don't know what will happen. He could be right, who knows? My take is the dollar is worthless because of the printing. All dollars are falling together. A lot can happen.

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Re: The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US ...

Foreigners?  We dont need no stinkin foreigners!  If half our financing walks away, why we'll just 1) print more money, or 2) the new US saver will step up and buy bonds that pay almost zilch in interest! (that's not how American investors work...) 

By the way Mish is starting to sound a bit agitated and a little combative, isn't he?  Emotion clouds logic... Pride rules...  Not seeing good arguments, just name-calling, and a "gee if it happens, it happens" conclusion.

Just because the American is becoming poorer and intends to drag down the whole world with him, the rest of the playground has other options.

 

 

 

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

Great link...thanks JAG

While the US is printing lots of money and running big deficits...they are still not at end times levels yet.  Credit is contracting, and prices denominated in almost all currencies of the world are coming down.  With fractal banking and current leverage in the US, another giant wave of crashing prices in levered assets is quite likely.  When credit contracts at these leverage levels, its likely the contraction goes exponential. 

I cant see inflation happening - in the shorter term....with the current credit contraction.  The amount of money (both in credit and velocity of money) is diminishing faster than the govt is currently printing it...and until that changes my bet is on falling prices.  My bet is cash for now....

 

 

 

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Mish Article Link

Davos (and others),

Sorry about that, I totally forgot to add the link to Mish's article that I cited above:

Countdown To Dollar Implosion Madness


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Re: The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US ...
plantguy90 wrote:

By the way Mish is starting to sound a bit agitated and a little combative, isn't he?  Emotion clouds logic... Pride rules...  Not seeing good arguments, just name-calling, and a "gee if it happens, it happens" conclusion.

I see that this comment was flagged, but I'm not sure why.

Plantguy,

Why are you so emotional about this?

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

I think he flagged it because of a typo

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Re: Daily Digest - August 30

DAVOS: Thanks for the intel. I'll email the newsletter founder and ask him WTH he got his take on this. I'm assuming your source is accurate. One thing about these bills is that they need to have a simple English easy to understand verbage with plenty of examples.

 I’m not sure how accurate the any of it is because I’m not a lawyer! I couldn’t agree more about simple English.

 CHRIS: As is par for the course these days, it went off the rails in favor of government power over individual rights, gave a lot of legal weight to potential risks and that's what I mainly object to.  IU do not object to the intent of the bill, but rather its heavy-handed approach and "us vs. them" tone which strikes me as more antogonistic than comforting.

 I don’t find it comforting either, but thanks for weighing in. I appreciate your comments.

 LOGANSRUN: The problem as we can see here is that this bill can be INTERPRETED in too many ways.

 Precisely.

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Re: The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US ...

JAG, 

My excuse is lack of time; time to read the articles, time to respond eloquently.  Plus I readily admit I'm not the best at discussing finance. 

So I am trying to read, and reply all in a very short window of opportunity, so my comments may come out as a blatherings on of a simple-minded person.  Sorry.  I wish I could express my thoughts in a more logical manner.

I will try to put more thought into my comments instead of scan, type, and run. 

 

 

 

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Re: The USG doesn’t need foreigners to finance the US ...
plantguy90 wrote:

JAG, 

My excuse is lack of time; time to read the articles, time to respond eloquently.  Plus I readily admit I'm not the best at discussing finance. 

So I am trying to read, and reply all in a very short window of opportunity, so my comments may come out as a blatherings on of a simple-minded person.  Sorry.  I wish I could express my thoughts in a more logical manner.

I feel totally the same way. I'm a horrible multi-tasker, and an even worse communicator, so I completely understand.

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