Daily Digest

Daily Digest 4/14 - CM On Two Beers With Steve, Japan Turmoil Disrupting U.S., Have Gas Prices Reached a Tipping Point?

Thursday, April 14, 2011, 10:44 AM
  • Chris Martenson Returns To Two Beers With Steve To Talk About His New Book
  • Swedish Krona Fell as Inflation Pressure Recedes
  • Japan Turmoil Disrupting U.S., Fed Survey Finds
  • Economic crisis could push gold price to $1,600, warns report
  • Pass The Boone Pickens Bill
  • Natural Gas From Shale Contributes To Global Warming
  • Tokyo Electric buys record LNG in March after quake
  • Have Gasoline Prices Reached A Tipping Point?
  • Soil Erosion Far Worse Than Reported In American Farmlands, According To New EWG Report
  • Japanese Workers Braved Radiation for a Temp Job
  • Radioactive iodine in city water spurs enhanced testing
  • Congress Turns A Blind Eye To Climate Science
  • Cut Out Meat To Stop Nitrogen Pollution, Say Scientists 

Crash Course DVDPass along a DVD to your friends and family—the deluxe DVD is available in discount packs of 4 and 10! (NTSC or PAL)

Economy

Chris Martenson Returns To Two Beers With Steve To Talk About His New Book (kemosavvy)

Chris Martenson returns to Two Beers With Steve to talk about his new book, The Crash Course. The new book provides a much needed update to his video series by the same name but also delves deeper into the subject matter and the book includes many more topics not discussed in the video.

Swedish Krona Fell as Inflation Pressure Recedes (Alfredo E.)

Statistics Sweden reported today that the annual inflation adjusted for mortgage costs was 1.5 percent in March, compared with the forecast of 1.7 percent. The Riksbank has raised its main interest rate five times since July to prevent the nation’s rapidly growing economy from overheating, yet now the slower inflation growth gives less incentive to raise the rates further.

USD/SEK rose from 6.2580 to 6.2948 as of 16:46 GMT, while it reached the intraday high of 6.3208 earlier.

Japan Turmoil Disrupting U.S., Fed Survey Finds (Saxplayer00o1)

The Japanese earthquake may be having more of an impact on the U.S. economy than previously believed, according to the Federal Reserve’s latest Beige Book survey of current economic conditions released on Wednesday.

The Minneapolis Fed said it was surprised when a quick survey of the factories in its district showed that 41% of them indicated that they had been unfavorably impacted by the disaster in Japan. p>

Economic crisis could push gold price to $1,600, warns report (Alfredo E.)

In its Gold Survey 2011, metals consultancy GFMS said there was growing evidence that buyers may drive prices still higher this year. "There is a higher starting point for each successive investor-led rally in the price. Thus, assuming investment demand will at some point take off again this year, there remains good scope for new highs in the price to be recorded," the consultancy said.

Energy

Pass The Boone Pickens Bill (David B.)

Out of that deep knowledge has come a powerful belief: that the country’s energy salvation depends on moving away from the fuel we don’t have — namely, oil, where imports, some of which come “from our enemies” (to quote Boone), account for two-thirds of our oil needs. Instead, we should move to a fuel we have in abundance: natural gas. Most experts say there is enough natural gas in the ground to last a century; Boone’s convinced that modern drilling techniques will allow us to find enough for several centuries.

Natural Gas From Shale Contributes To Global Warming (Alfredo E.)

They calculated that, overall, during the life cycle of an average shale-gas well, between four to eight percent of the total production of the well is emitted to the atmosphere as methane, via routine venting and equipment leaks, as well as with flow-back return fluids during drill out following the fracturing of the shale formations. Routine production and downstream methane emissions are also large, but comparable to those of conventional gas.

    Crash Course DVDPass along a DVD to your friends and family—the deluxe DVD is available in discount packs of 4 and 10! (NTSC or PAL)

Tokyo Electric buys record LNG in March after quake (guardia)

The purchase surpassed the previous record of 2.132 million tonnes in August 2010, according to company data. The company said on Wednesday it has procured gas oil and LNG for use in gas turbines in April and May as the operator of the crippled nuclear plant in Fukushima, northeast Japan, needs to boost thermal generation.

TEPCO has said it will need LNG the most among the fossil fuel mix to boost power generation in the summer. All the gas-fired plants operated by TEPCO are located in the Tokyo Bay area and received no significant impact from the quake compared with some of its oil and coal-fired plants in the northeastern Japan.

Have Gasoline Prices Reached A Tipping Point? (Ilene)

I explained in detail why the economy could not withstand $4 gas in Friday’s post. We had already been short on oil and we doubled down on our short position on USO as oil hit $113 a barrel and yesterday morning, in the early am comments from my "Investing for Income" article, I added a suggestion to short silver futures as they touched $42 and, of course, we hit the oil futures shorts, which I reminded Members we could take as oil crossed below either the $112.50 or $111.50 lines. As it turned out, they crossed both and we rode those puppies all the way down to $110 – finally catching the wave we’ve been PATIENTLY waiting for for ages.

Environment

Soil Erosion Far Worse Than Reported In American Farmlands, According To New EWG Report (Alfredo E.)

The organization blames irresponsible farming practices for putting America’s land and water at risk. As the video says, pesticides, fertilizers, and manure run into water, which “renders our water undrinkable, our beaches unfit to swim in, and has created an area in the Gulf so contaminated that aquatic life has to flee or die.”

Japanese Workers Braved Radiation for a Temp Job (guardia)

“This is the hidden world of nuclear power,” said Yuko Fujita, a former physics professor at Keio University in Tokyo and a longtime campaigner for improved labor conditions in the nuclear industry. “Wherever there are hazardous conditions, these laborers are told to go. It is dangerous for them, and it is dangerous for nuclear safety.”

Radioactive iodine in city water spurs enhanced testing (June C.)

The level of Iodine-131 found at the Queen Lane treatment plant is the highest of 23 sites in 13 states where the particles have appeared following the massive radiation leaks from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan. Lower levels were found at the city's two other plants.

But the Iodine-131 in Philadelphia may have no connection to Japan, officials say.

Congress Turns A Blind Eye To Climate Science (Alfredo E.)

With the passage on April 6 of a bill that would stop the U.S. EPA’s regulations of greenhouse gases from moving forward, the House of Representatives signaled in crystal clear legislative language that it flat out does not believe that manmade climate change is a real phenomenon that poses risks to Americans’ health and welfare.

Cut Out Meat To Stop Nitrogen Pollution, Say Scientists (Alfredo E.)

The main cause of the pollution is agriculture through the manure of animals and the nitrogen fertilisers spread on crops. Around half of nitrogen added to farm fields in Europe leaks into the surrounding environment rather than feeding plants. This causes algae slimes to grow in water and on trees, suffocating wildlife and disturbing delicate ecosystems.

Article suggestions for the Daily Digest can be sent to [email protected]. All suggestions are filtered by the Daily Digest team and preference is given to those that are in alignment with the message of the Crash Course and the "3 Es."

30 Comments

saxplayer00o1's picture
saxplayer00o1
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Greek, Portuguese Bonds Slump as Schaeuble Proposes Restructure

 

"As lawmakers around the country debate their states' budgets, they're staring over the edge of a massive fiscal cliff -- the point where about $100 billion in federal stimulus money for education will run out.

The end of that money will compound states' severe budget woes and is likely to lead to thousands of layoffs and the elimination of popular school programs around the country. "

 

  • Other Headlines: 

BRICS demand global monetary shake-up, greater influence

Portuguese, Greek Yields Rise to Records on Debt Concerns; Dollar Weakens

Greek, Portuguese Bonds Slump as Schaeuble Proposes Restructure

Banks face $3.6 trillion "wall" of maturing debt: IMF

EURO GOVT-Greek 5-year CDS extend rise above 1100 bps

Italy cuts 2011-13 growth forecasts, hikes debt-UPDATE 2

Greece 2010 Budget Deficit Seen At 10.6% Of GDP-Officials

Caltrain Needs $3.5 Million to Close Budget Gap

Processing delays cut foreclosure activity by 27% in 1Q 2011: RealtyTrac

Fukushima Radiation Leaks Will Continue Through June, Tokyo Electric Says

Japan Nuclear Evacuation May Force Hitachi, Boehringer to Abandon Plants

Calls grow for Japan PM to quit in wake of quake

Republicans responsible if country defaults: Geithner ( "Geithner said lawmakers "understand that you can't take any risk the world starts to think the United States won't meet its obligations."")

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Poet
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Beijing Home Prices Dropped 26.7% Month-on Month in March

Did anyone see this article from April 12, 2011 on price drops? This is supposed to be the start of the house-buying season in China.

Beijing Home Prices Drop for First Time in 19 Months in March
"Prices of new homes in Beijing dropped 26.7% month-on-month in March, the first fall in 19 months, the Beijing News reported on Tuesday, citing unsourced data."
http://en.21cbh.com/HTML/2011-4-12/4NMjM0XzIwOTg4Ng.html

Another article from April 6, 2011 noting the drop in transactions:

March Home Transactions in 30 Major Cities Fall 40.5% Y-o-Y
"Housing transactions in major Chinese cities monitored by the China Index Research Institute (CIRI) dropped 40.5% year-on-year on average in March, a month when home buying typically enters a seasonal boom period."
http://en.21cbh.com/HTML/2011-4-6/yNMjUxXzIwOTgyNA.html

Also, the following article is from March 18, 2011:
More Chinese Cities Witness Monthly Decline in Home Prices in Feb
http://en.21cbh.com/HTML/2011-3-18/0NMjY2XzIwOTY0NQ.html

Poet

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Congress Turns A Blind Eye To Climate Science

Niall Ferguson has a series on Channel4 (UK television) "Civilisation: Is the West History". I thought it rather strange that 21m50 into episode 4, about medicine, that he would take (in my view) potshots at the theory of man-made climate change.

The important point to note is that 100 years ago work like Galton's was at the cutting edge of scientific research. Racism wasn't some backward looking reactionary ideology, it was the state-of-the-art. And people then believed in it as readily as people today buy the theory of man-made climate change.

Having read John Perkin's EHM book, when Niall was going on about how Western money has paid for medicine which benefits Africa, I can't help wondering what the real cost to Africa for this medicine will ultimately be.

 

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portals
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Report: Japan considering moving capital away from Tokyo

Hey guys,

I'm on another forum and we have been kicking around an article on enenews.com

Report: Japan considering moving capital away from Tokyo

I haven't found anything more about it, and I am looking for a second source.  If you find one, please post it here.

Thanx

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Become A Vegetarian

Cut Out Meat To Stop Nitrogen Pollution, Say Scientists (Alfredo E.)

The main cause of the pollution is agriculture through the manure of animals and the nitrogen fertilisers spread on crops. Around half of nitrogen added to farm fields in Europe leaks into the surrounding environment rather than feeding plants. This causes algae slimes to grow in water and on trees, suffocating wildlife and disturbing delicate ecosystems.

I have been a vegetarian since 1986. I remember a short video I saw of Albert Gore answering questions around the time of his "Inconvenient Truth" documentary. Someone asked him, what would be the best thing they could do to improve their carbon footprint. He asked the person back what kind of car the person drove, insinuating that by getting a Prius or some kind of car like that, would be the way to go. Well, I am not a preacher, but when I have been asked that question or similar question I say, "Become a vegetarian". I wished I had been present at the location where the video was shoot. I would have shouted out, Hey Al, still eating meat?!! Probably was and still is. He does have that meat gut look. You all know what I mean by meat gut?

Broadspectrum

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Bretton Woods Outlook Dark for America

 

The George Soros-backed Institute for New Economic Thinking's just-concluded Bretton Woods weekend conference of leading economists didn't actually focus on America's future, but the sum of the discussions produced a pretty grim outlook.

http://prestowitz.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/04/13/bretton_woods_outlook_dark_for_america

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MarkM
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Broadspectrum wrote: Cut
Broadspectrum wrote:

Cut Out Meat To Stop Nitrogen Pollution, Say Scientists (Alfredo E.)

The main cause of the pollution is agriculture through the manure of animals and the nitrogen fertilisers spread on crops. Around half of nitrogen added to farm fields in Europe leaks into the surrounding environment rather than feeding plants. This causes algae slimes to grow in water and on trees, suffocating wildlife and disturbing delicate ecosystems.

I have been a vegetarian since 1986. I remember a short video I saw of Albert Gore answering questions around the time of his "Inconvenient Truth" documentary. Someone asked him, what would be the best thing they could do to improve their carbon footprint. He asked the person back what kind of car the person drove, insinuating that by getting a Prius or some kind of car like that, would be the way to go. Well, I am not a preacher, but when I have been asked that question or similar question I say, "Become a vegetarian". I wished I had been present at the location where the video was shoot. I would have shouted out, Hey Al, still eating meat?!! Probably was and still is. He does have that meat gut look. You all know what I mean by meat gut?

Broadspectrum

Broadspectrum,

I respect your choice of vegetarianism.  However, carbon sequestration, and a large amount, can be accomplished by creating topsoil through the use of managed grazing of ruminant animals. 

http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/Jones5.htm

While the paradigm of continuous grazing/feedlot finishing of beef animals is a disaster, I would argue that "traditional" farming of vegetable crops has been just as, if not more, destructive to our topsoils than the production of meat.

What do you think created the vast, rich topsoils of America's breadbasket that we have been robbing for the past 200 years?

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"Eat the rich" - delusion at best!

I'm sure this video will be "controversial" or even "libertarian/conservative" to some of the people here. Wink

Anyway, I found this an entertaining coverage of the "Eat the Rich"  syndrome and the absurdity of the notion that we can tax the rich to solve our problems.

Gee I don't think Bill Whittle likes Michael Moore......

 

 

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MarkM The link did not work

MarkM

The link did not work when I clicked on it just FYI. I am interested in reading the article.

Personally, I think it is notable that Gore didn't even address meat production in his movie (as far as I can recall).  Unfortunately there are very few grass fed ruminants in production these days. Most are grain fed in the US and the reasoning is that it is much much cheaper and allows for cheap food. Grass fed beef is very expensive in my area. Majority of the soybean production in the US is for meat production. Most cattle are completely feedlot fed for their short lives. So where does that leave us?  We have to talk McDonald's into raising hamburger prices in order to allow the cattle to graze, etc....  I wish we could but people need/want cheap food. 

off topic-grazing certainly would be nicer for the ruminants though.....

 

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darbikrash
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rhare wrote: I'm sure this
rhare wrote:

I'm sure this video will be "controversial" or even "libertarian/conservative" to some of the people here. Wink

Anyway, I found this an entertaining coverage of the "Eat the Rich"  syndrome and the absurdity of the notion that we can tax the rich to solve our problems.

 

Gee I don't think Bill Whittle likes Michael Moore......

 

Yes, indeed this is what passes for political discourse today. A logic that demonizes any attempt at all to equalize the taxation that the rich pay with what everyone else pays. Notice I said equalize not “eat the rich” nor even raise the taxes beyond the rate of which I pay.

This type of discourse bought and paid for by the likes of the Koch brothers, Heritage Foundation and other conservatives, et. al. is designed to leave the viewer with the notion that it is truly hopeless to try and make sure the wealthy and high net worth individuals are taxed at the same rate as the rest of us. Notice I aside taxed at the same rate of the rest of us, not paying a disproportionably larger share.

Not raising the taxes on the rich, just asking that they pay the same as the rest of us.

No, let’s spin this as an attack on the Statists, because, you know, it’s just un-American to ask that these big wealthy players get anything other than the best favorable treatment that money can buy.

So where are the numbers that show the reduction in the deficit if taxes were equalized to match the middle class and small business owners pay? Instead, we are shown propaganda designed specifically to appeal to those so inclined to substitute words like liberty, freedom, and other emotionally and ideologically charged words in lieu of frank discussion of what to some of us is obvious- why are those that have the most paying the least?

Not more, but the least. Understand the difference? And no it’s not hopeless, no matter how many trumped up numerical “studies” that ignore the obvious caches of cash and attempt to persuade those that do not know where the bodies are buried to stop looking and just cut spending. I know of no one, no one, that does not think we should cut spending, so let’s get that off the table right now. Everyone knows we have to cut spending.

Where are the numbers showing the total profits of C corporations? ($1.9 trillion in FY2007-2008)

Where are the numbers showing the total above the line tax deductions (after subtracting cost of goods sold) claimed by C corporations? ($11 trillion in FY 2007-2008) Deductions not available to the rest of us?

Where are the numbers showing the average C corporation taxable income (as reported to the IRS) at 1.53% of total capitalized assets? Sure, I’d take all the risk in the world for a 1.53 % return on investment. Right.

Where are the numbers that show the effective tax rate of the top 25 corporations is around 19.1%? How come I’m paying 35%?

Where are the numbers showing the hundreds of billions that are deferred from US tax code because corporations are shielding the money offshore until they can buy a congressman to write legislation allowing a “one time” free pass?

Where are the numbers showing that GE got a mutli-billion dollar tax refund on billions in profits? How about Exxon Mobil?

So how about this number, if we took 10% of the total IRS allowed deductions (after cost of goods sold) claimed by C corporations, and applied directly to the deficit we would ameliorate this years deficit. Gone.

No, you don’t hear about that now do you.

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Cattle

Ok folks, lets start class

1. Feed lot cattle start as calves on the range. They are on the teat and grass to a weight of usually 600-700 lbs. They are rounded up and usually taken to the feedlot. Depending on the frame of the animal (size, breed) they are finished at around 1,200 to 1,400 lbs.

2. Cattle are feed grain because the energy in corn provides the animal the ability to produce fat. Fat is what gives the meat it's taste. The critical fat is called "marbling". This fat is in the muscle, not the fat that you may find in the brisket, over the back or in the abdominal cavity.

3. Feeing corn to cattle is not cheap! The animal goes to market faster and has a flavor the market demands.

4. Kobe beef is grain fed...in Japan....now they glow and taste good

5, All grass and no corn makes a bland tasting meat. Good grass is high in protein and low in energy. Protein in the grass helps the calve grow muscle. There is "grass fed" beef that is finished with corn (unknown to the consumer). All grass fed beef is OK, but does not have the quality a corn raised animal has (I guess you could argue that one. I would bet a taste test with the general public, corn fed would win hands down)

6. McDonalds does not use beef cattle for their hamburgers. Feed lot steers or heifers are too expensive to grind up for hamburger. McDonalds uses cull Dairy cows, primarily Holsteins for their meat. Cull is a word to describe a cow that is no longer producing enough to keep, a reject or old and will not breed or just no longer desirable to keep in production.

7. The poultry and swine industries are major consumers of soybean meal.  Over half of the soybeans processed for livestock feed are fed to poultry, about one-quarter is fed to swine, and the rest is used for beef cattle, dairy cattle and petfood. All of the soybeans used for livestock feed are first processed to collect their oil.

8. Soybeans are a legume, they fix their Nitrogen from the atmosphere.

9. Commercial Nitrogen is fixed from the atmosphere

10. The atmosphere is made up of 78% Nitrogen

11. All plants need Nitrogen to grow

12. The protein in meat is a "complete protein" plant proteins are "incomplete proteins".

13. Humans are omnivores, always have been, always will be.

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BRICS ease gently away from dollar.. ?

 Throwing BRICS at dollars

April 2011. The leaders of BRICS (S being for South Africa, the latest entrant to the decade-old Goldman Sachs-invented emerging-economy grouping of Brazil, Russia, India, China) agreed in principle on Thursday to allow their authorised development banks to establish mutual credit lines denominated in their local currencies.

 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/throwing-brics-at-dollars/776396/

h/t to Plymouth rock - in the comment field of the article below.

BRICS warn over commodity prices:


 The roller-coaster path of commodity prices threatens the global recovery, the BRICS group of new economic powers warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/8452643/BRICS-warn-over-commodity-prices.html

 

 

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last boy scout, are you

last boy scout,

 

are you an idiot, making so many absolute statements?

 

robie, husband,father,farmer Grazier,optometrist 

[Moderator's note: Whatever you are trying to say, there is probably a better way of wording it.  This post is a violation of the forum guidelines.  Corrective action has been undertaken with the user.]

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Denise2257114
Denise2257114 wrote:

MarkM

The link did not work when I clicked on it just FYI. I am interested in reading the article.

Personally, I think it is notable that Gore didn't even address meat production in his movie (as far as I can recall).  Unfortunately there are very few grass fed ruminants in production these days. Most are grain fed in the US and the reasoning is that it is much much cheaper and allows for cheap food. Grass fed beef is very expensive in my area. Majority of the soybean production in the US is for meat production. Most cattle are completely feedlot fed for their short lives. So where does that leave us?  We have to talk McDonald's into raising hamburger prices in order to allow the cattle to graze, etc....  I wish we could but people need/want cheap food. 

off topic-grazing certainly would be nicer for the ruminants though.....

 

Denise,

I think the link problem is with the carbon farmers website. I can't get to it at all right now. Try again later.Smile

I think as the price of inputs grow, you will see more grassfed on the market. Unfortunately, you will never get real food at McDonald's, but I am sure you are aware of that.

I just don't think animal protein should be given a bad rap when it is really our techniques for producing it that have been the problem.

 

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Thank you lastboyscout! Your

Thank you lastboyscout!

Your understanding of farming is the same as mine.  I grew up or have been around farms and ranches my whole life.  Individuals that have no knowledge or understanding of farming should not post on this site. 

Nate

 

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Now for more of the same.

Ironically, I suspect that some people reject cold fusion because it does notseem to have a down side.  Fossil fuels have pollution problems, including greenhouse gases.  Nuclear power (fission) has the nightmare chance of a nuclear accident and the looming problem of how to dispose of nuclear waste.  Hydroelectric dams block salmon runs and affect river ecosystems.  Wind turbines kill off migrating birds and bats.  Everything seems to have an ecological cost, a down side, except cold fusion which promises cheap, clean energy.  I suspect that some people reject the possibility of cold fusion, not because technical difficulties nor because of the problems it presents, but because it does not seem to present any problems at all.

href=/comment/319#comment-319

"The three great evils Cows, Cars and Clearing." Prof. James Lovelock

(Yup. The same Prof James Lovelock who, when told to lighten up, said we should be down to a few breeding pairs in the high arctic by the end of the century. And one of my heros.)

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Two Beers

Thank you for the two beers conversation Chris.

There were several Laugh out Loud moments. (I have been trained to laugh at the sight of blood.) You have got love the FED. 

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Re: Now for more of the same.
Arthur Robey wrote:

Ironically, I suspect that some people reject cold fusion because it does notseem to have a down side.  Fossil fuels have pollution problems, including greenhouse gases.  Nuclear power (fission) has the nightmare chance of a nuclear accident and the looming problem of how to dispose of nuclear waste.  Hydroelectric dams block salmon runs and affect river ecosystems.  Wind turbines kill off migrating birds and bats.  Everything seems to have an ecological cost, a down side, except cold fusion which promises cheap, clean energy.  I suspect that some people reject the possibility of cold fusion, not because technical difficulties nor because of the problems it presents, but because it does not seem to present any problems at all.

href=/comment/319#comment-319

"The three great evils Cows, Cars and Clearing." Prof. James Lovelock

(Yup. The same Prof James Lovelock who, when told to lighten up, said we should be down to a few breeding pairs in the high arctic by the end of the century. And one of my heros.)

The reason I have a problem with cold fusion is that if it's such a great source of energy, why hasn't nature, plants, animals taken advantage of it? Can you explain that to me? thanks

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   Guardia: Umm

 

 Guardia: Umm quite.

 Some pedant may point out that the same argument could be made for oil...

... but I'm sure that once Gaia is free from the clutches of the sugar/starch or sunlight cartel, we'll have JP8 fuelled sparrows, diesel elephants and LNG giraffes soon enough.

 *grin*

 

 Arthur: If the nickel cold fusion thing turns out to be true.. that'll be fantastic... but the discoverers appear more concerned with ensuring a personal payoff, than spreading the idea. Until we have a better framework for rewarding  inventors, creators... the rate of progress will always be far less than it could be. A pity.

 

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Ready
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plato1965 wrote:   Some
plato1965 wrote:

  Some pedant may point out that the same argument could be made for oil...

Then they would be wrong:

http://news.discovery.com/earth/oil-microbes-bacteria-plume.html

Microbes Munching Gulf Oil

Oil-eating bacteria have been working overtime, potentially making them major players in the ultimate fate of the oil spilled into the Gulf's depths.

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grass fed beef

You can get used to the taste of grass fed beef---i don't think I had any other kind when I was a kid.  Less marbling, less fat.

The animals don't have to be major polluters if they have a generous free range and are not penned up.  They spread the wealth around.  They also contribute less methane. 

Of course using marginal land for animal grazing and no feed lots  would push up the price. 

Personally I don't eat beef much any more.  Still, I was thinking of putting a flood plane back into service as grazing land.  It's not being used for anything right now.  I don't see how they would be polluting things much as long as they don't stand in the creek.

Doing water samples here in Georgia we found the most dissolved nitrogen next to the golf courses, not next to farm land.  We didn't do any testing next to commercial farms that had heavy fertlizer use, but I would assume that surplus  fertilizer would also run off into the river.   Farmers are required to leave a strip of vegetation next to rivers.  The golf courses fudge a lot with that restriction, and you know they are using a lot of fertilizers.

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Nate wrote:Thank you
Nate wrote:

Thank you lastboyscout!

Your understanding of farming is the same as mine.  I grew up or have been around farms and ranches my whole life.  Individuals that have no knowledge or understanding of farming should not post on this site. 

Nate

Eh?

Well, it's nice to know that you hold us non-farmers/ranchers in such high regard.

- Nickbert

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Posts: 5
Nitrogen and Cows

OK, the history of commercially grain feeding cattle for the most part has only been around since WWII.  Cheap fertilizer and mechanization after the war.   Before that cattle were grass fed.  Since WWII the cattle industry (industrial ag feedlots) has wanted cattle genetics that will finish on corn.  Corn has for the most part been cheap. (till ethanol subsides)

 Cattle that will finish on corn will not properly finish on grass.  Feedlot cattle frame size is too large, 1200lbs at finish. Grass fed genetics produce cattle that finish at around 1000lbs.  Genetically correct grass fed cattle will finish in relatively the same amount of time as grain fed

You tell me which is more fuel and environmentally efficient.

Raise a calf in Kentucky till it is weaned (6-8mo.), ship it to Iowa, or some other midwest feedlot.  Feed the cattle a feed that had to be fertilized, harvested and shipped in from all over the area, with fossil fuel inputs.  When the cattle is finished ( 14-16 mo.), ship it to the slaughter house, package it and send it back to Kentucky. 

OR,  Raise that calf all the way to finish with a management intensive grazing system (MIG), take the finished animal to an area butcher and sell to area residents.

MIG is a system that has been proven to utilize the grass and forbs (which a cow was meant to eat).  The cattle are put into a small area of pasture and moved every day or twice daily.  This system has been proven to build soil, sequester methane and CO2.  Nitrogen is spread evenly over the soil  as the cows graze, which feeds the grass for the next rotation , not stockpiled in a small area as in a feedlot waiting for a storm to wash it into the streams.  Using this system to help balance my soil has reduced my own fertilizer inputs about 70%.

Sun shines!, grass grows!, cows eat!  How much more efficient can you get?

Also, several taste test studies have shown that a properly marbled grassfed steak wins hands down.  The problem that grass finishers have is being consistent.  One steak will be marbled correctly while the next is tough.  Learning proper grazing tecniques and using proper genetics is solving this problem.

Most of the bicarbonate of soda used in the U.S. is used for feeding cattle corn, they are in a constant state of indigestion.  Cows were meant to eat GRASS. 

70% of the antibiotics produced in the U.S. are fed or injected into the animals in industrial ag systems.

The continental U.S. supported over 100 million buffalo with no human input, we have traded that grazing system for fossil fueled corn fed cattle at 40 million.  Tell me which is more efficient. 

This same system the buffalo used to create the rich soil of the great plains is the very system MIG attempts to recreate.

Just a few things I have picked up over the years.

For information on grass finishing go to http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/

For information on the health benefits of grassfed go to   http://www.westonaprice.org/

   

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1891
Just Your Name Tells Me What I Need To Know
grassfarmer wrote:

Everything you wrote.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Poet

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lastboyscout
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Joined: Jun 3 2010
Posts: 9
Beef

Robie,

Sorry you are so angry. Other than the Kobie smarta** comment and the taste comment, which I said was debatable, Facts are usually absolutes. I guess the atmosphere is 78.??% of N, but really, for the most part, I believe I provided good information. I just read over my post and really do not see anything out of line.

Believe it or not, I am a one who enjoys grass raised livestock. I hold a BS in Animal Husbandry. I have worked in production ag. I have raised grass based beef and sheep with a little corn on the side. I have assisted farmer’s transition to grass based dairies. I believe in the concept.

I have also raised beef in a feedlot conditions and I believe a have a good understanding of both production methods.

My post was an attempt to bring some facts to the discussion. If the facts insult you, or frighten you, maybe you need to stop visiting blogs like this one that strive to provide open minded, honest, respectful debate.

Sincerely,

"Lastboyscout"

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lastboyscout
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 3 2010
Posts: 9
Beef

Nate,

 

Thank you for you kind reply. It was nice to hear after I found out I was an idiot!

As for the folks that have little or no ag experience. They must be allowed to post. We (as in Americans) need to have open honest debate for all. I believe Chris Martenson wants that, and if we cannot have an honest, open debate here, then were do we go? We must be educated to all the facts, an must not be afraid of the facts, even if facts somehow don't fit well with our understanding as we know it. Let them post, let them all post!

Sincerely

"Lastboyscout"

robie robinson's picture
robie robinson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 25 2009
Posts: 1192
My sincerest apologies to

My sincerest apologies to All,esp Lastboyscout.

I wasn't particularly "mad" just knee jerk reacting to what on the surface to my small and narrow mind appeared to be an attack on my way of life. I'm neither an efficient typist nor seer of "E-communications" as there is no "face" to see or "karma" to feel.

Again it is my mistake and I recognize due discipline and reciprcal sorrow

Robie,(isn't there a way for me to delete my  post that got me into this mess)

MarkM's picture
MarkM
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 849
What grassfarmer said.

What grassfarmer said.

patrickhenry's picture
patrickhenry
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 12 2009
Posts: 76
lastboyscout
lastboyscout wrote:

Robie,

Sorry you are so angry. Other than the Kobie smarta** comment and the taste comment, which I said was debatable, Facts are usually absolutes. I guess the atmosphere is 78.??% of N, but really, for the most part, I believe I provided good information. I just read over my post and really do not see anything out of line.

Lastboyscout - we could start with your #2 "fact". "Cattle are feed grain because the energy in corn provides the animal the ability to produce fat."

You list this as a fact as though the energy in grass does not allow cattle to produce fat.   Not only is this misleading, but researchers now tell us the there are two to four times more of healthy omega-3's in the fat of grass fed beef as in corn fed feedlot beef cattle.

http://www.hearthealthynaturalbeef.com/confusedaboutfat.pdf

Conventional corn feedlot beef producers are fighting to retain the status quo.   Thankfully, for those concerned about high energy inputs,  higher amounts of antibiotics in their beef, higher amounts of articifical growth hormones in their beef, paying taxpayer subsidies for a corn monoculture, and for those concerned about eating healthier beef...the trend is towards grass fed beef.

Thanks to robie for drawing attention to this post and to grassfarmer for giving the rest of the story.

 

earthwise's picture
earthwise
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2009
Posts: 848
Speaking of grass fed beef........

 

I was going to submit this on the definitive Ag/Permaculture thread, but in view of the course of conversation on this thread I think it's appropriate here as well.

Joel Salatin interview on Financial Sense Newshour:

http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/big-picture/2011/04/16/03/joel-salatin/a-workable-solution-to-soaring-food-prices-in-the-next-decade

This guy rocks!! Can't get enough of him. Salatin is to agriculture what Chris Martenson is to the three E's.

IMO anyways.

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