• Blog
    Episode 009 Part 1

    Bad Faith Fauci, Part 1

    Attacks on Fauci are attacks on science?
    by Chris Martenson

    Friday, June 11, 2021, 6:06 PM

Video Description


Fauci has destroyed faith in science.  The FDA and NIH have diminished
people’s faith in medicines and treatments, respectively.  This is a terrible direction in which to head once a society loses its ability to trust its main institutions and authorities, bad things follow.

We cannot consider this to be accidental any longer.  

So, now what?

Topics I cover in Part 1:
  • Fauci: “I am science!”
  • Remdesivir
  • Biogen’s new Alzheimer’s drug and three advisory board members who quit
  • The NIH on Vitamin D is indefensible 
  • Fauci on the “ethical duty” for the NIH treatment panel to act differently than they did or are

Video





Audio

Part 2

To learn more about how the system is working against us and how to prepare, continue on to Part 2.


Links


Attacks on Fauci = Attacks on science

FDA Approves Biogen Drug

FDA panel member quits

Remdesivir Trial Endpoints Moved

Covid 19 NIH Treatment Panel Conflicts of Interest

Covid Treatment Guidelines for Vitamin D

FDA Remdesivir

FDA on
Ivermectin

Third member resigns from FDA advisory panel
Related content
» More

118 Comments

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 8:00pm

    #1

    David Huang

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2010

    Posts: 97

    4

    A suggestion

    Thank you Chris and the team for another powerful presentation!

    I have a suggestion for a way to slowly help push back against censorship on platforms like YouTube.  I'm following your Rumble account which I gather does not do the sort of censorship YouTube is now famous for.  However, I never really watch your videos there because they either don't get posted or come out after they've been on YouTube.  I most certainly understand and agree with trying to continue to get your message out through YouTube since that is where the audience is.  However, if you perhaps premiered your presentations on Rumble first, or at least at the same time you would be incentivizing the growth of that platform.  (Sort of a "show me the incentives I'll show you the outcomes" sort of thing.)  Then if you promoted the fact that these videos could be seen first on Rumble you would be further encouraging the viability of it by giving people a tangible reason to seek you out there first.

    I don't know what sort of back end work would be involved in doing this, but just offer it as a thought for a small way to change the system, and make your channels of out reach more robust.

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  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 8:25pm

    #2

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 2067

    1

    Losing it.

    Sensible Frya! The first lesson that she taught her children was self-control, and the second was the love of virtue; and when they were grown she taught them the value of liberty; for she said, "Without liberty all other virtues serve to make you slaves, and to disgrace your origin."

    The Oera Linda.

    Sorry Frya, I'm losing it.

    The scientific method demands that we sift through all the evidence and adjust our Models accordingly.

    Therefore, the evidence presented by historian, Dr. David Jacobs must be taken into consideration.

    A Model gains street cred with it's Predictive powers. Everything I observe is consistent with the evidence he presents.

    A statistical analysis of a survey showed that 5% of All humans are abductees. (Yes Gladys, worldwide.)

    An effort on an industrial scale by Hubrids and their team.

    Their "Change" is upon us.

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  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 8:37pm

    #3
    Rodster

    Rodster

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 22 2016

    Posts: 49

    4

    Rodster said:

    This whole Covid 19 has turned into a classic "trainwreck" and thankfully the wheels are starting to fall off. Kunstler blog today is all about Fauci.

    It's a good thing I had my suspicions regarding CV19 and waited before reacting. Now we are getting reports that teenagers and those in their 20's are suffering from "heart inflammation". Where was the British press when in their initial studies there were reports of unexplained "spinal inflammation" from the AstraZeneca vaccines during the trial phases. You know something is up or at least a red flag should go up when they are given indemnity. I listened to a 10 minute presentation from the Lead Doctor who also is the Lead Scientist for Moderna. It's shocking how he describes this vaccine because as you listen you realize it's NOT a vaccine but a drug that as he puts it, "hacks the bodies operating system". He even goes onto say that in the future they will be able to upload your bodies data to the Cloud to share it with other medical institutions.

    Kunstler nails it in today's column: https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/struggle-session/

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  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 8:50pm

    #4

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 2067

    8

    Brain function of a retired Electrician

    WRT brain function, be aware that your brain cells require energy.

    If they become insulin resistant they starve. Type 3 diabetes. Diabetes of the brain.

    Dramatic (if temporary) improvements are reported with the consumption of MCT (coconut) oils.

    It turns out the brain Prefers Ketones to kiddie smack. (Sugar)

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  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 9:45pm

    #5

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 2067

    3

    Another puzzle piece.

    Now why would the US government co-operate with their erstwhile enemy to fund a bioweapon?

    https://humansarefree.com/2021/06/govt-and-pentagon-funneled-162m-to-ecohealth-alliance-the-group-that-funded-coronavirus-research-in-wuhan.html

    Because whoever is running the show (here's looking at you, Mantids), couldn't care less about our (human) political arrangements.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 12:24am

    #6
    Bill in La Mesa

    Bill in La Mesa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 114

    10

    Dr Evil

    Incredible to think there really are evil doctors in the world.  What's driving me to madness is pondering whether or not he really knows the truth, or has simply been brainwashed by Big Pharm, & half a century of not looking into the desperate eyes of a patient who really needed his help.

    I dearly hope that even if this plague vanishes from the earth, great minds will continue to pursue these numbskulls till the end of time, so that history documents this properly.  A holocaust of mismanagement has occurred, & I for one won't rest easy until it has been exposed for all to see.  I'll be talking about this until the day I die.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 3:09am

    #7
    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 999

    23

    Loss of Trust

    I'm a retired civil engineer. Civil engineering can be best described as applying the best science available to the proposed project. There's a joke among engineers that we could do a much better job if it weren't for the client's wishes. Of course, they're the ones who live with the outcomes and they're the ones who pay the bills. I tried to do my very best to produce the very best product for my client's needs. Nonetheless, I always succumbed to their wishes after it was obvious that I couldn't convince them that other options were more technically sound.

    Because I was part of an institution, I basically trusted institutions early in my life. I assumed that there were enough checks-and-balances to keep institutions operating honestly. When journalists found misdeeds, it strengthened my opinion that grand balancing was occurring. That's the way it is supposed to work.

    I had a real comeuppance when 9/11 occurred. Buildings just don't collapse the way any of the 3 World Trade Center buildings collapse. (That is, without help.) As I studied the collapses, I was astonished that media weren't addressing key issues. It was almost as if they were paid to look the other way. The last-stance entity that I trusted to keep nefarious organizations in check had checked out.

    Since then, it has gotten worse. Mainstream media is little more than a lapdog for the moneyed interests. Are they questioning Remdesivir's efficacy? Are they promoting real science behind vitamin D3, zinc, and off-patent medicines like HCQ and Ivermectin? They're following the money and only reporting innocuous BS or trumped up charges on anything against big Pharma's interests.

    I think it is a little more sinister for Dr. Fauci. He knows what he has done during his career with the NIAID and NIH. He knows that there are trails connecting his authorization of public money for research into gain-of-function on viruses. His actions support that he is battling for the remainder of his life in a position of power and also to be kept out of jail. Telling people that he is "SCIENCE" just supports this tact.

    As long as he promotes big Pharma's issues, he'll get their collective support. They don't have a special affinity for Anthony Fauci. He's just a conduit for their bottom-line needs. They'll support him as long as it's profitable. As soon as he's a liability, he'll find himself exiled ... or sharing Epstein's fate. They only play nice when they win.

    Where are journalists when we really need them?

    Grover

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 6:12am

    #8
    Canuckian

    Canuckian

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 27 2010

    Posts: 74

    1

    Vitamin D

    I'm not making a judgement as to whether vitamin D works against CV19, but we have to remember that correlation is not necessarily causation.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 7:48am

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 297

    12

    Hospitalized are Vit D deficient

    The stats on Vitamin D are compelling.  When 90%+ of hospitalized Covid19 patients are Vitamin D deficient,  that number tells us something.  When it comes to vitamin D, the good news is:  It can't hurt you and it will probably help you.  So why not use it? And why the skepticism?

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 8:16am

    Mark H.

    Mark H.

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 2

    3

    Mark H. said:

    Hladini, I agree with you.  The best way to get the attention of something like YouTube is to stop using their product. This is the approach used to change our agricultural systems, and I have now seen local farmers switch to organic production, not because they believe in it, but because it has become more profitable due to market demand.
    Because of the growing censorship, a larger portion of the videos I now watch are on Bitchute and on Rumble. As a user/viewer, I have found that Bitchute is more compatible with my PC and iPhone than Rumble. I don't know why, but I find Rumble slow to load and otherwise problematic. My vote would be for Bitchute over Rumble.
    In the long term though, I am hoping that as a society we move to a decentralized video sharing platform that will be immune to censorship. As I understand it, the Theta crypto project is developing such a platform. This project is already functional for certain types of video. Assuming it can be scaled as I believe it will, it could be transformational in providing a censorship resistant, and faster, video service.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 8:49am

    #11
    summitday113

    summitday113

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 29 2020

    Posts: 39

    5

    Senator suspended from YouTube for talking about DWSBN 1 and 2

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/youtube-suspends-sen-johnson-covid-19-misinformation-78231914?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 9:18am

    #12
    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 21 2020

    Posts: 157

    8

    Five Stages of Collapse

    When Chris got his start on this, back in the mid 2000"s, there were a lot of brilliant people using the newly published material [Kenneth Defeyes] about impending peak oil [see Chris' Crash Course]. One of those people, Dmitri Orlov, wrote about the 5 stages of collapse from his personal observations and from family and friends reports about the collapse of the Soviet Union. His predictions for peak oil USA have been almost exact.

    Here is his February 2008 blog report on the subject. Loss of faith in institutions, like Chris is concerned about in this video, is part of it. Read about all the stages for yourself, review the Crash Course [the mathematical limits of this predicament] and decide for yourself.

    http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2008/02/five-stages-of-collapse.html

    Anyway, I'm glad Chris is still here and going on stronger than ever.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 9:41am

    #13
    Linda Gourash

    Linda Gourash

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 23 2020

    Posts: 1

    22

    Question the "Vaccine" !!

    There is no point in exposing these miscreants if we continue to follow their advice mindlessly. WAIT FOR MORE DATA before taking this Gene Therapy/Vaccine! Even more important is to PROTECT the young and the children from this vaccine steamroller. It makes no sense to claim that they "NEED" it. They do not. I am a Pediatrician, for what it is worth, and this intervention is terrifying to me. The threats of coercion say it all.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 11:06am

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 314

    4

    Dontknownothin said:

    Only the unvaccinated can change their minds. WAIT FOR THE DATA!

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 11:07am

    #15

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 412

    4

    MSNBC: extreme contempt for facts as such

    “Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.”
    ― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 11:53am

    Whitney

    Whitney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 254

    1

    Whitney said:

    Taking down this suggestion, David, thank you!

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 12:49pm

    Netlej

    Netlej

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 199

    6

    Healthy people tend to be less sick.

    "...whether vitamin D works against CV19."

    Thats because it doesn't work against C-19 so much as it works to make your body healthy. A healthy body does not get sick from C-19 or any other diseases. This is true for most all the prophylaxis regimens and it might even be true with IVM.

    This has been the problem from the beginning. Testing for HCQ and IVM where they supposedly put  some virus in a petri dish and toss in a couple of HCQ or IVM pills and see if it kills the virus. Ignorant! It's like putting some sperm in a petri dish and throwing a condom in with it to see if it kills the sperm.

    Healthy people tend to be less sick, an inconvenient fact that the likes of Fauci the leaky Faucet does not want to get out.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 12:51pm

    Pipyman

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 208

    2

    Hmmmm

    That is one of those cast away statements that always makes me smile (puke?). The action of vitamin D on many ailments is well know and scientifically understood. This is not correlating my wearing a red shirt with the frequency of sunny days.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 12:57pm

    Kathy

    Kathy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 351

    7

    Germ Theory vs Terrain Theory

    I learned about Germ Theory but I never considered Terrain theory as it’s own separate concept.





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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 2:19pm

    #20
    bobinyelm

    bobinyelm

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 03 2009

    Posts: 11

    25

    People Amaze Me

    I am a retired Physicist, Attorney, and Airline Captain (in that order), which "past lives" I mention only to explain where I am coming from, and the methods and mindset of my industries and colleagues. We tend to stereotype certain occupations, like "Used Car Salesmen", and of course"Doctors," based on ethics differences and trust we have in them.

    But I see basically three personality types in this dog fight. One is the TRUE scientist who honestly strives to be faithful to the facts. As a physicist, it was never to my benefit, or my company's benefit to not respect the facts. It would have not only been dangerous (we worked with dangerous radiation), but it would have cost my employer money not only from the danger, but from inefficient conclusions, because science is OBJECTIVE, and facts rule. As an attorney, it was facts and the law above all (in theory), but then many of my colleagues played fast and loose with both, because the law (in practice) is SUBJECTIVE, and one can profit through skulduggery.  As an airline pilot, I had the pleasure to work only with people who put safety above ALL, and who scrupulously respected facts and the science of aeronautics, which do not bend well without severe consequences to those sitting in the pointy end of the aircraft, and importantly who always arrive at an accident scene first. I saw a LOT of integrity in my aviation colleagues, and I might add "self interest," meaning failure, had personal consequences. Call it a variation of you "Eat what you cook." The "company" often tried to push us to cut corners, but very seldom succeeded (remember our self interest), but they hesitated to push TOO hard because accidents hurt the Company badly in the purse.

    Unfortunately, while medicine and pharmacology USED to be governed by Morality and Self Interest (financial liability for mistakes), both of those self regulation elements have been watered down by greed and reduced liability, and with the "Vaccines," NO LIABILITY. As with aviation, pharma companies try to "push" their limits of honesty in the interest of profits, but unlike aviation where practitioners had "self-interest" to strengthen their morality (i.e.,  pilots seldom survive their mistakes or malfeasance), the frontline workers (researchers) DO NOT suffer the results of corporate malfeasance (limited personal consequences). And with Zero Corporate Liability, companies have a reduced incentive to stay "honest," and we end up with the highly compromised situation we have today. Add to that the fact that the regulators (Agencies, Organisations) can hold interest in patents and profits, there is the additional incentive to further dilute morality, and drift toward SUBJECTIVITY, and "situational morality," rather than honoring Honest and Objective behavior.

    That's where we seem to find ourselves today, with Big Pharma prioritizing profits above all , with regulatory agencies tempted to look (Remdesiver, Covid Vaccines) and even point (HCQ, IVM, Vit D) the other way than "science" would indicate. We have turned our researchers and regulators into foxes, and our fellow citizens into hens, most of whom still believe they can trust, based on decades of trustfulness, their drug makers, their regulators, and their doctors, who sadly also now have seemingly joined their patients as consumers of the questionable information fed to them (by Pharma, Agencies, Regulators, and Media) as it is fed to us.

    I TRUST my doctors, but I don't trust the information they are receiving, which means I cannot trust their advice, which more and more is based on what they are told, or what they cannot admit without bringing their clinic "bosses," or their "professional organisations" down on their heads. I never used to consider my doctor would tell/advise me ONE thing "officially," and another thing "off the record." But NOW I have to consider that. We must consider that our healthcare is now being led by Used Car Salesmen (apologies to used car salesmen).

    The "SYSTEM" is failing us!

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 5:13pm

    #21
    kenwdelong

    kenwdelong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 11 2018

    Posts: 35

    11

    This isn't anything new

    This behavior from the medical establishment is not new. Read "Bad Pharma" by Ben Goldacre (published in 2014!).  He uses published research papers to demonstrate how Big Pharma has lied to make money, usually at the cost of the lives and health of patients. Stopping trials partway through, finding signals in tiny sub-cohorts that bear no relationship to reality (this drug helps left-handed divorced men with toe injuries - so let's give it to everyone!), altering trial endpoints - these are all old, old tricks used by BP to lie, kill, and cash in big time.  It's just that this time it's in the open. Another good one we've seen pulled out of the back pocket is the fake trial - the hit piece - designed to discredit a save, but unpatented and therefore forbidden, treatment. I'm surprised we don't have a RCT where ventilated, dying patients were given 100 IU of Vitamin D to "finally prove" that "Vitamin D doesn't work". They do these kinds of trials all the time.

    I've been interested in "alternate" health, and therefore following these things loosely, for about 20 years.  I cannot recall a single instance where the FDA, CDC, WHO, or any other of these murderers recommended a "natural" treatment over a (patented) pharmaceutical treatment.

    I am hoping (against hope) that people will view what's happening as an indictment against centralized power, money, and authority. If there was no FDA or CDC or WHO, and instead we just listened to actual scientist, treating doctors, and people like Chris, dark stuff like this would be far less likely. As soon as you have a huge "authority", if they make a mistake people die by the millions. If they act in bad faith, even worse outcomes appear. Decentralization would help to mitigate this.

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  • Sat, Jun 12, 2021 - 9:46pm

    #22
    RichK

    RichK

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 01 2020

    Posts: 1

    4

    Mr Fraudci and his followers

    I lost faith in 'doctors' more than 30 years ago. Today I consider them in the captured group alongside politicians, chemists, other government agencies and of course MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

    The sinister capture of the planet by the Black Sun and the dragon families (don't laugh) has led to wars, famines and other so-called natural disasters. It is not difficult to stretch the imagination to understand that all the epidemics were also their product to subjugate the people of this planet.

    This DIVOC ( Divoc means "Possession of an evil spirit" and is of Hebrew origin) is the last in a long list of so-called viral infections released in the world. The first major one of note was the Spanish Flu. This was released in 1918 just when the war (started by the Black Sun) was winding down. This latest scam was to capture America without a kinetic war. But understand that it is a WAR. People are dying and will continue to die. Fortunately, such people as Fraudci and his minions who have been captured will be dealt with great prejudice.

    Switch off your tv. Do not subscribe to the msm. BUT follow Bitchute, Telegram, United Network and the many de jure Assemblies. We have all been dumbed down over our lives and it will take time to recover our sovereignty and integrity. Some will never recover sadly. The truth for them will be too painful to accept.

    Just to add, I believe there were some 100 homeopathic universities in America around 1900. Today there is NIL. That is thanks to Rockefeller who wanted to push his DRUGS into a new treatment program. That was make people sick and then offer them our treatment. But never to be actually cured. It was all to capture WEALTH and POWER for themselves.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 3:28am

    Gerard Vriend

    Gerard Vriend

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 12 2021

    Posts: 1

    1

    Vitamin K.

    The one pandemic (or2) I never heard about is low vitamin K. I found out that most of US have low K. K1, vegetables. K4 and K7
    Last two found in old cheese and bacterial products. It’s the builder of bones that are in their turn builder and maintenance of blood. K-vitamins.com

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 6:47am

    #24
    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 449

    6

    Vitamin K2

    The choices are Vitamins K1 (phyloquinone from leafy plants) and K2 (menaquinone).  The "4" and "7" refer to versions of K2.  There is no "K4" or "K7".  Unless you're eating slimy Natto you need to supplement K2.

    Vitamin D supplementation MUST MUST MUST include K2 and also A.  Otherwise you risk calcium deposition in soft tissues.  It's not true you can't easily take too much Vitamin D because it is what happens when it is unbalanced with other nutrients (like K2 and A).  Chris Masterjohn is an excellent source of information about K2.

    The Ultimate Vitamin K2 Resource | (chrismasterjohnphd.com)

    I wish our Chris would stop recommending just Vitamin D.  He isn't a nutritionist.  The recommendation of Vitamin D is not complete.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 8:19am

    #25
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 627

    6

    Pope Fauci

    People make jokes about this, but the similarities are stunning. I was raised Catholic. In the Catholic faith, God comes down THROUGH the pope and church TOO the people. You cannot directly circumvent the pope and have a direct relationship with God in the traditional Catholic doctrine.

    This consolidation of power saw the Catholic church embroiled in world governments, a global power that could make or break kings.

    I see alot of similarities in the new church of science that has swept the western world. It has it's zealots, and fanatics, and its incredibly wide spread. I'd say about 80% of the developed world worships at the alter.

    They say history is just human nature playing itself out over and over. If so, we had a protestant reformation, where people insisted on reading the bible themselves and having a direct relationship with God, right? Well I think we are already seeing the beginnings of that with people on alternative platforms rejecting the decrees of pope Fauci and insisting on a direct relationship with the science.

    Interesting times.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 8:58am

    #26
    CeZn

    CeZn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 6

    14

    Fauci exposed. Greek Greetings

    Greek Greetings to Chris et al.

    Its quite Interesting that Fauci and his gang have been totally exposed. Dont know if we gonna reach a Watergate moment or even better Nureburg Trials II.  Truth isnt enough.  There is a need of organised opposing forces. Trump and MAGAers have failed into bringing any actual change.

    So we are left(maybe for the Best) with communities.  Doctor communities like FLCCC or Mcculllough group and people's communities like the one of peak prosperity.  (its my first time i go behind a paywall. Great achievement Chris!)

    Vaxxing healthy youngsters is a crime. We know from end of May(from Israel)  that myocarditis with mrna vax for Men <30 is around 1/3000-6000. And the cdc gang just call it mild.  Who wants a mild heart infection for a 1 million $ folks?

    Short note for Greece.

    In March 2020 we were Lucky that the virus was in low numbers and the lockdown worked(of course bfr closing down the whole country we must have closed the borders..). We had only 200 deaths till September. We have even adopted HCQ in our guidelines till then.

    But from july 2020 and on we

    1.  Opened to turism.  Great decision during a pandemic! Cases started to rise.

    2. Then of course we entered an enternal pseudolockdown(closed Schools, restaurant, bars but no change for other works, overfilled public transport) from november till middle of May. By then we have been totally in line with euro lockdown line:

    A)  to get out from our house we had to send an SMS to a governmental agency.  Curfew from 21.00-05.00 (weekends from 18.00)

    B)  no HCQ. Stay at home with paracetamol and then if things go South Remdesivir... Of course neither monoclonal antibodies. Im guessing that these are kept for the VIPatients. Back in March 2020 some old vips went South, but not any more.

    3. So now We have reached 12.000 deaths.  We have quite a lot of deaths <70 compared to the rest of Western europe where the life expectancy is similar (around 82y.o. In eastern europe life expectancy is 10 years lower)

    The medical "experts" that handled this tremendous success: 200->12.000 covid deaths 6000% increase with 8/14months in lockdown have now also legal immunity!

    4. Now we live the last(?) act of the covid theater: Vaccines to all.  One size fits all of course. At least Germany said that they wont vax people <18.  Hope same for our children. Hope healthy people <30(or <40 also)   will be spared too but:

    Many "experts" and even our PM are constantly bombarding us with forthcoming  mandatory vaccination from September.  At least for health personel. As a young doctor im quite stressed by this... Examining alternatives to avoid them.  Dont want neither the risk of myocarditis nor that of deadly thrombi while my covid risk is around 0. And for god's shake they want us vaxed(without! sterilising immunity)  with the spike toxic protein of covid 2019 while we approach 2022.

    The relation between greeks and the law isnt usually so straight forward so i hope they will be left some small windows open..  We will see.

    There are a lot of people that are Against mandatory vaxx but nothing largely organised unfortunately.

    The vax/lockdown sceptics are called "psekasmeni" / "pseka"  meaning sprayed with chemtrails (aka conspiracy theorists). Even our Lovely PM called them(us?) like that in public.  "Pseka"  seem to be the Jews of our years.  Dont know how worse will the things get from September.  The "pseka"  is strong in us :p, but greeks generally try to save their personal and family ass and dont care so much about the general good( in fact the General good idea is a quite abstract idea.  Its more realistic and humane to care about your community instead of the utopin dream of saving your whole country or world!

    So pseka greetings to all the community!

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 9:19am

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Yes., Kat43, Vita D alone is dangerous

    Thank you, Kat43. I have been trying off and on for over a year to get Chris to understand that vitamins are not magic bullets. They all work together like a chain. Vitamin D will not work without all the other vitamins and minerals, but I was unaware that taking it alone would be that harmful. That makes sense. That he ignores this has me cautious about his solutions to anything. He's been dangerous about this to all of us. It helps to always be skeptical.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 10:17am

    #28
    davefairtex

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    doesn't look dangerous

    Do you have some study that this masterjohn fellow provides, where he shows that people have become injured if they take 5000 IU (let's say) of vitamin D, without taking K2?

    I have a study that suggests otherwise, on 4700 patients, from 2019:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30611908/

    During this time, we have admitted over 4700 patients, the vast majority of whom agreed to supplementation with either 5000 or 10,000 IUs/day. Due to disease concerns, a few agreed to larger amounts, ranging from 20,000 to 50,000 IUs/day. There have been no cases of vitamin D3 induced hypercalcemia or any adverse events attributable to vitamin D3 supplementation in any patient.

    4700 people seems like a pretty big number.  One would expect if "Vita D alone is dangerous", this would have showed up in at least a few of these 4700 patients.

    What am I missing?

    Perhaps Masterjohn can point us to a study which shows a different outcome?

    I like the studies themselves, rather than some "master resource", so I can go directly to the data and read things for myself rather than through some intermediary.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 11:21am

    Tycer

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    Vitamin D caution from my MD

    My doc cautioned me not to take too much. She sent me this: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2632494

    So, I am still taking more than she wants me to. My D runs around 35-45. Cannot seem to get it above 50 .

     

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 11:26am

    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Tycer

    You just missed your chance to elevate your serum D3.

    Naked Gardening Day was in May.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 11:41am

    #31
    Kat43

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    Kat43 said:

    Dave, the issue isn't hypercalcemia (in the serum), it's calcium deposition in soft tissue instead of hard tissue.  Part of the issue is too much Vitamin D induces a Vitamin A deficiency, and vice versa.  It's a mistake to consider Vitamin D on its own.  It's too integral to hormonal coordination in our body.

    Masterjohn is the best source I know on nutritional supplements, based on the research he has done of the literature.  I appreciate your request for a particular study.  I would recommend learning Vitamin D's role in calcium metabolism to understand it better.

    Here is an early analysis he did on zinc and C19 that goes far beyond discussions I have seen by others:  What Is the Best Dose of Zinc for COVID-19 Prevention? | (chrismasterjohnphd.com)

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 11:51am

    Mipharm

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    Mipharm said:

    I'm not a doctor, but I did read a book a while back regarding Calcium and K1, K2.  Too much Calcium and too little K2 can cause problems as K2 is suppose to transport Calcium to where it is needed.  If Vitamin D causes us to absorb more Calcium, it makes sense there could be a problem if you are K2 deficient.  I'm going to guess there are not a lot of studies, other than observational, given the cost of the Vitamin.  Maybe we should think about finding a way to fundraise for Independent Research in the future.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:06pm

    dcm

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    Where are the journalists?

    Unfortunately I think the disappearing journalists are not a cause but an effect of something much more sinister. While greed and corruption play their part, the tales of Julian Assange, Edward Snowden and others tell us that our Fourth and First Amendment rights are disappearing at an accelerating rate. While not arrested thank God, Dr. Martenson has been silenced more than I can remember and I'm sure that decision came from someone and somewhere beyond YouTube.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:15pm

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Too Much Vitamin D?

    It's really very hard to over do it on Vitamin D.  Possible, sure, but very difficult.

    Here's the sceince:

    Confusion, apathy, recurrent vomiting, abdominal pain, polyuria, polydipsia, and dehydration are the most often noted clinical symptoms of vitamin D toxicity (VDT; also called vitamin D intoxication or hypervitaminosis D). VDT and its clinical manifestation, severe hypercalcemia, are related to excessive long-term intake of vitamin D, malfunctions of the vitamin D metabolic pathway, or the existence of coincident disease that produces the active vitamin D metabolite locally.

    So a good portion of the observed VitD toxicity is due to an underlying metabolic or disease process.  Which means it's always good to have your levels checked.  If your levels are too high, that could mean you have an underlying issue that needs to be addressed.

    Continuing on:

    Although VDT is rare, the health effects can be serious if it is not promptly identified. Many forms of exogenous (iatrogenic) and endogenous VDT exist. Exogenous VDT is usually caused by the inadvertent or improper intake of extremely high doses of pharmacological preparations of vitamin D and is associated with hypercalcemia. Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] concentrations higher than 150 ng/ml (375 nmol/l) are the hallmark of VDT due to vitamin D overdosing.

    First, it's rare.  Second, toxicity develops with concentrations over 150 ng/ml(!).

    That's really, really difficult to achieve unless you are taking a daily amount in the several tens of thousands of units for months on end.  At least that's what I've been able to glean from the papers so far.

    Deeper in this paper they drop this nugget:

    In the 1940s, massive doses of vitamin D (200,000–300,000 IU/day) were considered an effective treatment strategy for chronic illnesses as diverse as tuberculosis and rheumatoid arthritis. Because hypercalcemia was observed in some patients thus treated, individual doctors discontinued the massive doses and the symptoms of VDT disappeared after a few months.

    Okay, yeah, 200,000 to 300,000 units per day sounds a bit high.  LOL.  And at those doses it caused hypercalcemia (the main unwanted side effects of VitD toxicity) in just some of the patients.

    All of which is to say that I am perfectly comfortable with my own chosen 5k units/day which, given my somewhat lazy approach to taking daily supplements, averages out to about 20k units/week.

    Comfortingly, natural sunlight exposure doesn't seem to be an issue as the body has a way to self-regulate the precursors when there's an abundance of active VitD metabolites:

    In healthy individuals, exogenous VDT is usually caused by prolonged use (months) of vitamin D mega doses, but not by the abnormally high exposure of skin to the sun or by eating a diversified diet. The human body can regulate the quantity of previtamin D (tachysterol and lumisterol) produced in the skin by ultraviolet-B radiation.

    Source for all that great info: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2018.00550/full

    In closing, I am disturbed to easily find hundreds of articles explaining that too much Vitamin D is a risk, and they all talk about getting too much, but none of them ever seem to go back to the source data which basically concludes "Man, it's really hard to OD on VitD and you have to take such ridiculously high overdoses that nobody is ever in danger of doing that as they'd have to take at least 40 capsules of 5,000 unit VitD every single day for months."

    So call me suspicious of an entire industry that clearly has a bias to steer people away from VitD for the obvious reason of preferring people to remain sicker so they can sell them more treatments and palliatives. "You can overdose on Vitamin D...it has toxicity...it's bad if you get too much."  That's what they say more often than not.  The logical follow-up question is why?  

    Why spend more time hand waving at the dangers of it all than you'd have to spend finding the source data and giving people actual data ranges of how much would be too much?  Well, because the intent of those articles isn't to inform, it's to nudge you away from taking Vitamin D.  It's intentional; that's the explanation that fits best.

    Shame on the doctors that go along with this too and promote it.  Really ought to have their medical licenses stripped away if only for being too lazy to actually read up on this for themselves like I just did.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:30pm

    2retired

    2retired

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    2retired said:

    You forgot laziness as a contribution to the medical follow on.....and aversion to the effort of searching out sources.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:34pm

    #36

    dcm

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    No sooner did I post about dead journalism

    I happened upon this  Reporter Who Broke Clinton-Lynch Tarmac Story And Received 'Significant' Death Threats Found Dead | ZeroHedge

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:48pm

    Oliveoilguy

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    15,000 iu of D3 daily for the last 15 years

    When I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2006, my holistic oncologist got my D levels up immediately. I take the Hydroxy25 blood test every 3 months and my target level has been and still is 90 ng/ml. I keep very close to that level….but what works for me to maintain that level is surely different for other individuals. When I read on PP that adequate D levels were beneficial against Covid, I was happy to already be there.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:55pm

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    For DCM

    Those "suicides" used to be referred to as "Arkanside".

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 1:23pm

    Jay Pine

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    Not vaccine related

    Appears not, Canuckian: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9681661/Inter-Milan-quash-rumours-Christian-Eriksen-jab-Covid-suddenly-collapsed.htm

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 1:36pm

    Jim H

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    8

    Fighting Vitamin-D Hesitancy

    Vitamin-D hesitancy, at least in regard to dosages that tend to push levels up to "sufficiency" relative to Covid-19 risk, would seem to stem at least in part from the much lower RDA.  I think people have a reasonable fear of "megadosing" on things... so we need to be really well informed here as to what truly constitutes a megadose.  Everything Chris and DaveF has said is completely true, so rather than repeat what they are saying let me add some perspective on dose.

    I will remind the PP.com readers that there is this letter, posted on a stand-alone website, now sporting 200 signatures of scientists and doctors that recommends the kind of dosage Chris is talking about.  I personally take 5000 IU some days, 10,000 on others.  If I had to point people to just one resource to learn the story of Vitamin D vs Covid-19 it would be this website;

    https://vitamindforall.org/letter.html

    Vitamin D is well known to be essential, but most people do not get enough. Two common definitions of inadequacy are deficiency < 20ng/ml (50nmol/L), the target of most governmental organizations, and insufficiency < 30ng/ml (75nmol/L), the target of several medical societies & experts.2 Too many people have levels below these targets. Rates of vitamin D deficiency <20ng/ml exceed 33% of the population in most of the world, and most estimates of insufficiency <30ng/ml are well over 50% (but much higher in many countries).3 Rates are even higher in winter, and several groups have notably worse deficiency: the overweight, those with dark skin (especially far from the equator), and care home residents. These same groups face increased COVID-19 risk.

    It has been shown that 3875 IU (97mcg) daily is required for 97.5% of people to reach 20ng/ml, and 6200 IU (155mcg) for 30ng/ml,4 intakes far above all national guidelines. Unfortunately, the report that set the US RDA included an admitted statistical error in which required intake was calculated to be ~10x too low.4 Numerous calls in the academic literature to raise official recommended intakes had not yet resulted in increases by the time SARS-CoV-2 arrived. Now, many papers indicate that vitamin D affects COVID-19 more strongly than most other health conditions, with increased risk at levels < 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) and severely greater risk < 20ng/ml (50nmol/L).1

    I have to admit I have not gone down this rabbit hole regarding the purported statistical error in setting the RDA.. but does it really surprise anyone at this point that information that could cause you to be healthier, and maybe not just avoid harm from SARS-CoV2 but also be healthier overall as a result of improving general immune function, is being suppressed?  The stat's are right there in the statement... the vast majority of people need around 5000 IU supplementation just to get to the lowest level of sufficiency.  One thing that I really like about the letter is that every signatory states their daily level of supplementation - so take a look at what the smartest people in the room are doing...

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 1:51pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Vitamin-D Hesitancy

    "Vitamin D Hesitancy"

    Jim H.,

    You crack me up.

    But that is a good way of putting it.

    Maybe we should complain to Fauci about his "Ivermectin Hesitancy."

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 2:09pm

    #42

    JAG

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    Don't take supplements...

    Dr. M: Well, because the intent of those articles isn't to inform, it's to nudge you away from taking Vitamin D.  It's intentional; that's the explanation that fits best.

    Hey Doc, where have you been the last ten years? Vitamin D has been the supplement of the decade! The amount of pro-vitamin D research and media coverage has been incredible.

    I never trust that kind of promotion because in the following decade the research tends to show how "wrong" we all were.

    When I went to school 30 years ago Vitamin D was considered somewhat dangerous because if you took too much you would get kidney failure. Now days, the exact opposite meme is popular.

    My point is that you can't trust research.

    It really doesn't matter how well the research is conducted because in the end we all just accept the research that agrees with the outcome we want and reject the research that doesn't agree with it.

    Here is the reason that I rarely take supplements any more despite being in the supplement research business for 20 years: you cannot be smarter than nature.

    The human organism evolved to use the nutrients found in the ecosystem, in the form that they exist in the ecosystem. The chemically isolated nutrients found in most supplements do not exist in the natural world or in our evolutionary history.

    The aim of most research is to isolate and test one variable. Unfortunately, nothing really exists in isolation within nature, so this type of research is flawed from the beginning.

    We really need to focus on getting nutrients in their "whole food" form and forget about how much of a supplement the current research says to take (or not to take).

    PS: This also applies to all vitamins, especially Vit. C. Sorry Linus Pauling.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 2:16pm

    #43
    kunga

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    Vitamin D hesitancy

    For a long time the word on Vitamin D was you could overdose on this fat soluble vitamin.  According to grass roots health, a blood level of 200 ng/ ml is overdose range.  I think it would be hard to achieve.

    I grew up on the cloudy northwest coast, I am sure my family was deficient. After living in Seattle, my tested levels were below 20ng/ml.  Dr. Mercola encouraged all followers to get tested and raise their levels.  After two years, I got up to 55 ng/ml.

    I work outside in the summer.  I now take 10,000 IU D3 daily.  My autumn level is around 67ng/ml.  I was taking 20,000IU daily this winter to compensate for lack of sun.  My recent test showed 107 ng/ml.  So my plan now is, continue the summer supplements but back off winter to 15,000 IU.   Everyone is different, your skin tone, genetics, sun exposure, latitude, age all count.  You have to test.

    There are several self ordered tests you can get online.  Most under $50.  I have used grassrootshealth.org , a bit spendy, but they do outreach.  I also get orders or kits from lifeextension.com.  I take the kit in for a self ordered blood draw at my hospital lab and send it in by UPS.  It is interesting that if I just want a vitamin D test locally, I have to get a doctor's appointment, and talk them into ordering the test.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 2:31pm

    Jim H

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    Reply to JAG

    The human organism evolved to use the nutrients found in the ecosystem, in the form that they exist in the ecosystem.

    I am sure others have had a similar thought cross their minds while reading your post;  Yeah, sure, I will go back to my equatorial roots of walking around mostly naked in the sun... that way I won't need to take Vitamin D to fight off a bioengineered virus.

    Or something like that.

    Screw that.  I will take my 5000 - 10,000 IU daily (in oil).

    If you really delve into Vitamin D supplementation you realize that you are practicing gene therapy.  Yes, the fact is that you can forego the mRNA spike protein gene therapy, and instead wield this power on your own in a much more natural, beneficial, and benevolent way;

      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32325790/
    Key Vitamin D Target Genes with Functions in the Immune System
    The biologically active form of vitamin D3, 1α,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (1,25(OH)2D3), modulates innate and adaptive immunity via genes regulated by the transcription factor vitamin D receptor (VDR).

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 2:34pm

    Jim H

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    Awesome post Kunga.. I for one have been missing you.

    Glad to see you posting.  Your actual experience with supplementation and resultant blood levels is instructive.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 2:48pm

    Carl

    Carl

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    Poor Soil. Naked

    Jag,

    I was once in your camp - Nature knows best, we should get all the vitamins and minerals we need from our food. No longer. After learning more about how poor our soils have become over the years due to our extractive farming methods and the things food engineers do to produce to make a product they can sell, I believe one must supplement with extra vitamins and minerals. How much? Which? Tough questions, especially since I too believe that the Recommended Daily Allowances (RDA) are set way too low for a healthy life.

    Regarding Vitamin D levels, I recall sitting through a video months ago that another commenter here had added to an earlier thread on Vitamin D. The video was from a conference of heavyweights in the Vitamin D research field. Almost all of it was over my head. What really hit me though was when the main presenter was asked about too much Vitamin D. His words, "We evolved, naked, near the equator. Too much Vitamin D is not a big problem for our species." Since then I have not worried about it.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 2:51pm

    #47
    Netlej

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    D Depletion

    For all nutrients there is not getting it/not getting enough of it, and then there is depletion of those nutrients from your body via a whole range of attacks on our body systems. Humans are being bombarded with toxins on every front, air, water, food, even our mental anguish, which is ramping up X10 lately, physically depletes our bodies of nutrients and even generates our own home made toxins.

    This is the real cause of  disease and "pandemics" and will take us out if we don't insist on stopping it ASAP!

    Even the foods and natural sources that we used to rely on for nutrition have been depleted of some or all of the nutrition from this ubiquitous onslaught of  toxicity. Sorry to sound so bleak but it has to stop now. Also there is no getting away from it by moving somewhere or only buying .........

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 3:40pm

    #48
    Kat43

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    Kat43 said:

    Chris, I really wish you would broaden your view beyond whether large amounts of Vit D can cause hypercalcemia and instead look at the metabolic pathway relating to calcium deposition and the dance among calcium, Vitamins A and D and K2 and activation of osteocalcin and matrix gla protein (MGP) if there is an imbalance in those players.  The body can avoid hypercalcemia in the serum by dumping calcium in tissues so high serum levels aren't a given.

    Supplementing with high levels of D should be counterbalanced with A and K2.  Easy to get A from sources like liver.  Food-based K2 is difficult and you might want both the MK4 and the MK7 version to protect both the cardiovascular system and bones.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 3:48pm

    #49

    JAG

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    Re: Carl

    Carl: His words, "We evolved, naked, near the equator. Too much Vitamin D is not a big problem for our species." Since then I have not worried about it.

    Ever wonder why people that live naked near the equator have dark skin? The pigmentation prevents over production of Vitamin D.

    JimH: Remember the cod liver oil your parents made you take as a kid? Great natural, minimally processed form of Vitamin D. It tastes wonderful too.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 3:56pm

    #50
    pat the rat

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    good storm

    There may be a good storm coming, with the drought in the west and mid west food could become hard to come by. Now ad in the covid 19 virus and things start to ad up to a very bad last half of the year. Do the best you can to be ready for a good storm to  come your way.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 4:03pm

    #51
    kunga

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    More D hesitancy

    Yes, definitely what Kat43 said.  Also, don't forget magnesium.  I supplement extra Mg, as type B blood types notoriously deficient as/per, Eating For Your Type.

    Thanks, JimH, 🐱.  Others, here, better at posting with links and proofs than I am.  I really appreciate the efforts you, and others, go to to make this a professional level blog.

    Even cod liver oil is deficient in vitamins, now.  I notice mine is supplemented.  Yes, great taste, not 😵.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 4:12pm

    #52
    kunga

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    Clif High

    Hey, Jim, did you see, there is a major interview with Clif at usawatchdog.com? All things edgy and woo-woo.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 5:22pm

    #53
    agnes xyz

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    agnes xyz said:

    How is saying that vitamin D is not a magic bullet, that all vitamins and minerals are necessary for a properly working immune system, wrong and grounds for this near hysteria? That's like saying that the shot hesitancy people are anti-vaxers. KAT43 and I are not talking about overdosing, but imbalance. Imbalance. We can't survive on vitamin D alone anymore than we can survive on water alone.

    This is a straw man response. Please stop making things up.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 6:02pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    Plants Mine Available Minerals

    JAG wrote:

    Here is the reason that I rarely take supplements any more despite being in the supplement research business for 20 years: you cannot be smarter than nature.

    The human organism evolved to use the nutrients found in the ecosystem, in the form that they exist in the ecosystem. The chemically isolated nutrients found in most supplements do not exist in the natural world or in our evolutionary history.

    JAG,

    Here is a video with Dr. August Dunning, a NASA scientist. I was trying to find a video he made concerning mineral deficiencies in the food we eat. He did a study analyzing government C-Rations from WWI and beyond. He plotted mineral content vs time and superimposed a graph of disease prevalence vs time. The mineral content in food decreased markedly at the same time that once-rare diseases became rampant. For instance, the first documented case of childhood Type 2 diabetes was in the early 1980s. Before then, it was known as "adult onset diabetes."

    I did find this video from 2017 where he shows much of the same information - albeit with less detail. The food's mineral/nutrition content suffered when mechanized agriculture came into being. Without inputs from draft animal waste being reincorporated into the soil, the plants mine all the minerals from the soil as best they can. Farmers are in the business of making a profit. Those who only supplement the soil with the major fertilizers - N,P,K get good yields at lower costs. Those who try to do the right thing and replace all the minerals that the plants remove from the soil are at a financial disadvantage. It really shouldn't surprise you that nature is trying to be smarter, but our financial incentives keep nature from doing its job.

    The video is ~55 minutes long and consists of a presentation at a conference. He starts out discussing soil degradation, food mineral deficiencies, and disease incidence. His solution - restore the soil's mineral content. (He's teamed up with Dr. Mercola to produce and market a product.) Then, he talks about chemicals, big Pharma, pesticides, etc. He included a ~3 minute clip of Chris Martenson talking about bumblebees with Max Keiser @ 26:52.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtTVIu85E-0

    There's lots more. Dunning doesn't tread lightly on sacred cows. I wish the video would have ended 5 minutes before it did. The last 5 minutes is devoted to a fantasy where he's the captain of a Star Trek vessel. Other than the last 5 minutes, the rest of the video is worth watching.

    Grover

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 6:25pm

    #55

    JAG

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    Nutrient Deficiency

    I totally agree with all that have pointed out that the soil is depleted of nutrients...100%. But what can be done about it? Not really anything on a global scale because there are too many people to feed. You have to prioritize calories over nutrition. Not enough calories and people starve to death quickly. Not enough nutrition and people starve to death slowly.

    But I think we are fooling ourselves if we think we can make up for poor nutrition with commercially available vitamin and mineral supplements. If you think the pharmaceutical companies are corrupt, the supplement industry is 10x worse.

    Now if you supplement with wild foods and herbs, and/or really know what you're doing growing your own food, you could probably mitigate much of the problem. And at worst, you aren't creating five problems down the road by trying to fixing one today.

    I think I remember Dr. M saying he had a goal to grow enough calories for 50 people. I love that goal, but that is a huge undertaking. Just the amount fresh water that would take is a problem, unless you have a well fed, giant lake on the property. Aquaponics or semi-aquaponics might be a better path to that goal.

    Edit: SP

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 6:43pm

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Northern Virginia soil lacks boron

    Thanks for your post.  One needs to know their area well.  When practicing in Northern Virginia infertility and osteoporosis was rampant compared to Maryland where I had been.  A farmer and his wife told me that the soil lacked boron and all animals- horses and cattle that they owned had to have their feed supplemented with boron to prevent fertility issues, disease, and injury.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 6:45pm

    Jim H

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    Reply to Agnes

    I have to say I don't get your comment at all;

    How is saying that vitamin D is not a magic bullet, that all vitamins and minerals are necessary for a properly working immune system, wrong and grounds for this near hysteria?

    Near hysteria?  Ummmmm... The scientific truth is that Vitamin D is special in this story.  Supplementing is the single most pedestrian, simple, safe, and powerfully efficacious thing we can do to steel ourselves against getting really sick with the virus.  That's what the studies say, over, and over, and over again.

    Look at this recent study, published June 7;  Covid-19 patients coming into hospital were given doses of the more potent and readily used (by your body) version of Vitamin D, calcifediol.  Results?  87% less chance of going to ICU, 79% less chance of dying.           

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34097036/

    Setting: Patients admitted to COVID-19 wards of Hospital del Mar, Barcelona, Spain.

    Patients: A total of 930 patients with COVID-19 were included. Ninety-two were excluded due to previous calcifediol intake.

    Intervention: Of the remaining 838, a total of 447 received calcifediol (532ug on day one plus 266ug on day 3, 7, 15, and 30) whereas 391 were not treated at the time of hospital admission (Intention-to-Treat). Of the latter, 53 patients were treated later during ICU admission and were allocated in the treated group in a second analysis. In healthy subjects, calcifediol is about 3.2-fold more potent on a weight basis than cholecalciferol.

    Main outcome measures: ICU admission and mortality.

    Results: ICU assistance was required by 102 (12.2%) participants. Out of 447 patients treated with calcifediol at admission, 20 (4.5%) required ICU, compared to 82 (21%) out of 391 non-treated (p-value<0.0001). Logistic regression of calcifediol treatment on ICU admission, adjusted by age, gender, linearized 25OHD levels at baseline, and comorbidities showed that treated patients had a reduced risk to require ICU (OR 0.13 [95% CI 0.07;0.23]). Overall mortality was 10%. In the Intention-to-Treat analysis, 21 (4.7%) out of 447 patients treated with calcifediol at admission died compared to 62 patients (15.9%) out of 391 non-treated (p=0.0001). Adjusted results showed a reduced mortality risk with an OR 0.21 [95% CI 0.10; 0.43]). In the second analysis, the obtained OR was 0.52 [95% CI 0.27;0.99].

    Conclusions: In patients hospitalized with COVID-19, calcifediol treatment significantly reduced ICU admission and mortality.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 6:49pm

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 96

    3

    D Depletion

    I was on a live lecture featuring Dr. Russell Jaffee.  He seems to be good friends with many big players including Fauci.

    Welcome

    I asked him what he suggested people do that were being exposed to potential spike protein shedders and he said get your vitamin D level up to 80-100 and add the Perque buffered vitamin C with additional vitamins and minerals.

    I've known people who have taken the entire RX of 50,000 IU vitamin D (300,000 IU) and not have any change in their liver function tests.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 7:03pm

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 96

    5

    Vit K2- Check out Life Extension

    I first read about it in Life Extension Magazine --Early studies on men showed that 3 months of K2 reduced coronary artery calcium by 50%.

    I noticed that benign breast calcifications were mostly all gone by the 6 month follow-up diagnostic mammogram in women who started on K2 supplementation.

    I tried it myself before getting a cardiac workup (strong family history of heart disease) prior to scuba diving in retirement. I am sure it was for over 1 year.  My coronary artery score was 3, my younger brother had a score of >3000- >no K2   supplementation.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 7:17pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 764

    3

    turquoiserose

    turquoiserose,

    I am 70 with a family history that puts me at risk. I also use K2 obtained from Life Extension. Just passed a carotid artery scan.

    I like Life Extension. Good service and quick delivery.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 7:40pm

    #61
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 469

    5

    Vitamin D hesitancy, repealed

    My brother in law, mid-60s,  got Covid-19 last October.  I had been sending resistant sister every Vitamin D/Covid article from grassrootshealth.org.  Sis did some research, found a treatment called a "Vitamin D Hammer".  It involves giving ill person 20,000IU vitamin D3 twice a day.  In two days his fever broke and he recovered.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 7:45pm

    #62
    CheechAndChong

    CheechAndChong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 3

    1

    Looking for a new Dr

    Sorry if this is not the best thread to ask this, but since we're on the subject of nutrients, anyone have a recommendation for an osteopathic doctor in the San Francisco, CA area? I'm shopping around for a new Dr that won't give me pushback on requests for thorough blood panels.

    Even though I have already been vaccinated for Covid, an Ivermectin friendly doc would be preferred (just because I would know that they can think for themselves, and who knows what future variants may do.) But I understand the current policies may prevent even the best intentioned doctor from being able to recommend or prescribe Ivermectin, so that's not a deal breaker.

    Cheers,

    C&C

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 8:04pm

    #63
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 469

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    New doctor?

    C&C, 

    Naturopathic doctors are licensed in CA, I believe.  I don't know specifics.

    However, go to lifeextension.com.  Many, many self ordered blood tests.  Very reasonable if you catch the yearly spring sale.  You can get an order to go to an independent lab or get sent a kit to have a local blood draw at a hospital lab.  I get the kit because I live very rural, two hours from an independent lab.  Then I send in the completed samples by UPS.  Never a problem.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 8:10pm

    suziegruber

    suziegruber

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    Joined: Dec 03 2008

    Posts: 239

    3

    Awesome doctor in Sonoma County

    Hi Cheech & Chong,
    I highly recommend Dr. Lois Johnson at Hill Park Medical Center in Sebastopol.  She is an MD and an extremely experienced herbalist who is very thorough with diagnosis through bloodwork and other avenues.

    Cheers,
    Suzie

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 8:20pm

    #65
    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 627

    5

    Never thought Id say this....

    ...I agree completely with JAG here. All this over reliance on studies is a dead end. 2/3rds of all studies cannot be reproduced. 2/3rds!

    Now out of the 1/3 that can actually be reproduced...there's a percentage that are reproducible for reasons other than originally theorized. So, you have the large majority of these studies being utterly worthless....actually worse than worthless because they mislead us.

    Next, there is no way that vitamin D from a pill is even in the same universe as vit D from sunshine, fish liver oils, and other whole foods. It just isnt. Why? Because along with that sunshine and whole food vitamin D comes a host of other enzymes, biological agents, solar radiations, chemicals, light spectrums, and things that science doesnt have the first CLUE about.

    You were not designed to absorb vitamin D by itself, in a pill. It doesnt exist in that form anywhere in nature.

    If you want to be healthy and have a strong body and good immune system you need to look to nature, use good common sense and take all the science with a grain of salt. Get outside and exercise in the fresh air and sunshine. You dont need to move to Africa and run naked with the gazelles, thats just a straw man excuse. You can go out and take some sun, give me a break. You should eat moderate quantities of fresh whole food. If you want to take a multi-vitamin go ahead, it might do something.

    Overall, its going to be very difficult to reproduce the effects of a natural healthy life through supplementation, and drugs. I dont think its ever been done or ever will. We dont know nearly enough, but the good news is we dont have to. We know what works even if we dont know exactly why.

    Go for a brisk walk everyday in shorts. Take your shirt off for 15 minutes everyday to get some sun. Grow a garden. Thats about it. Theres nothing else you're going to do that can have that kind of profound effect on your health and well being.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 8:24pm

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 96

    1

    Best of Luck!

    I have listened to this doc give lectures and Zooms for his patients.  Nice blend of therapies and remarkable case histories of healing.

    Center for Wellness and Integrative Medicine – Aptos and Santa Cruz

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 11:53pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 999

    4

    Perfection ... or Good Enough?

    Jag wrote:

    But I think we are fooling ourselves if we think we can make up for poor nutrition with commercially available vitamin and mineral supplements. If you think the pharmaceutical companies are corrupt, the supplement industry is 10x worse.

    Jag,

    I suppose I could ask you where your "10X worse"  came from; however, I'll just chalk it up to hyperbole on your part. You may be correct when it comes to big supplement companies who are only concerned with maximizing profit. It could even be worse than 10X worse. Painting them all with the same broad brush isn't honest or useful.

    The supplements industry is filled with all kinds of players. There are those who are corrupt and will focus only on the bottom line, but there are others who truly have a mission to keep their customers healthy. I can't say the same for big Pharma. The fact that they're pushing these "vaccines" that are not properly tested speaks volumes. We're cash cows for them - nothing more.

    Given that we're living in an imperfect world, what do we do? Should we just live with the current environment ... or should we do what we can to augment the diminished  vitamin and mineral nutrient composition of mainstream food? What choices are available to us? I agree that we can't possibly reconstruct all the agricultural land that has been mined of minerals. That doesn't mean that we can't replenish the minerals in our gardens and produce enough healthy food there to supplement the vacuous calories from mainstream suppliers. Composted animal manure works wonders in the garden!

    It takes knowledge to know what actions will benefit the individual. Some vitamins/minerals from corrupt institutions may not be assimilated properly; however, we have medical tests that can establish the efficacy. Others on this thread have talked about blood testing to ensure that they have sufficient levels of key ingredients to stay healthy.

    I take multiple supplements daily. I agree with other poster's view that vitamins/minerals work analogous to a chain. The chain is no stronger than its weakest link. A plant works the same way. If it is deficient in a minor mineral, adding nitrogen will not make the plant healthy. It may still produce, but the product will not be as nutritious as it could be.

    The goal should be to supply our bodies the minimum necessary to keep healthy. That way, the weakest link will be strong enough to accomplish what we need. If store-bought food doesn't provide this need, a smart individual will supplement. Don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough.

    Grover

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 12:28am

    #68
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 469

    5

    Healthy choices, simply complex

    As my health and nutrition information changed over the years, I have tried to make culinary changes.  It can be daunting and costly to scan the food cupboard and realize much there needs to be thrown out.  I have done this several times.  This housecleaning can extend to food packaging materials, storage containers, cooking devices and even eating utensils and dish ware.  It takes time to accept and make the changes and introduce new foods.  For a while, I committed myself to just one change a month.

    Some healthy changes I have done:

    c.f.

    Get rid of most high fructose foods, especially high fructose corn syrup. Substitute Stevia, monk fruit, erithritol, xylitol for sweetener.

    No refined seed oils like corn, soy, canola. Use tallow, lard, butter, ghee and olive, coconut, avocado oils.

    Minimal to no grains, wheat, rice, corn.

    Take a good probiotic, daily.  Health starts in the gut.

    I love coffee, but I am mostly switching to decaf, as caffein seems to jack up my insulin.

    Stopped eating out, cook whole foods at home.  Learning some cooking skills can save money and health.

    I switched my storage and left overs containers from plastic to glass, use ceramic knives and plates and sterling silver eating utensils.  You can't beat being born with a silver spoon.

    Hope this helps.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 12:34am

    #69
    2retired

    2retired

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    Joined: Jul 20 2020

    Posts: 193

    2

    2retired said:

    "Eating on the wild side" by Jo Robinson, gives a good rating of the variation in nutritional content of various foods; most foods are grown and selected for the self life, durability, storability and appearance, not nutritional value. Not a competition with the idea of supplements, but a good read.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:12am

    #70
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2528

    5

    nature, supplements, interventions, and good enough

    You can't beat nature, except - well - after taking niacin my life has noticeably improved.  So perhaps I should just stop taking it, go back to where I was before, and pretend that the improvement never happened?  No.  Niacin stays.  This is my lived experience.  See: "trust yourself."  I do.

    We take antibiotics for bacterial infections.  And ivermectin for COVID.  And we put casts on broken arms.  We presume to be "smarter than nature" with all those interventions.  Now - me - I think that leads to a better quality of life.  I've done all those things.  Some may disagree.  "Nature is smarter - sure I broke my arm, but I'm just gonna let it sit there.  Nature will take care of it for me."  Of course that's a silly example - but interventions come on a spectrum.  We do interventions all the time.

    Having said that - I will agree that Western Med seems fascinated by single-compound interventions, probably due to profit & patentability.  At the risk of going into the weeds - Artemisia Annua is a plant, which can be used to cure malaria - among many other things.  Western Med extracted one component - artemisinin - which seemed to do a better job initially, only to result in strains of malaria that eventually became resistant to this single compound. Which the whole A. Annua plant still manages to cure.

    Amusingly, everyone in Madagascar drinks A. Annua tea, and this country has manged to avoid COVID almost entirely.  The WHO, of course, alternatively tries to ignore this, and reprimand them for their effrontery.

    So while I take my niacin, and my bunch-o-supplements, I remain on the lookout for whole-plant solutions.  My latest: Moringa Oleifera, a horrible-tasting substance, that large parts of Africa use in combination with A. Annua.  (This was recommended to me by my friend, an African veteran - 10 years in Nigeria.)   Not everyone needs Moringa, but I'm giving it a try.  We'll see how it goes.  So far: after 7 days, my intake of alcohol has dropped precipitously. (One of the things I track is daily alcohol consumption).  Example: I opened a beer yesterday.  I couldn't finish it.  I just didn't want to.  I've never experienced this sort of "adverse event" before.

    Note: you must mix Moringa with something.  It just tastes horrible by itself.

    In addition,  I also do daily 25 minutes of PA, and maintain a normal BMI (=24) - with the help of 16:8 intermittent fasting.  Based on what I've read, I consider these interventions to be at least as important as my supplements - and in aggregate, probably more important.

    But supplements?  While I don't depend on the little pills to save me, but neither will I spend inordinate amounts of time to try to search for the perfect foods that will make all my industrial-society-depleted-soil mineral deficiencies go away.  Supplements are a part of my arsenal.

    Lastly, here's a vitamin D paper which sums to: "dark-skinned people in high latitude countries probably need vitamin-D supplementation."  We could sit around the campfire and academically debate whether or not "going out in the sunshine" (in high latitudes, where dark skin makes sufficient vitamin D impossible to get for these people) is better for this population with claims that "you can't outfox nature" - while this group continues to die due to vitamin D deficiency - or we could hand them vitamin D tablets and probably end up saving a bunch of lives, even if it isn't the perfect solution.

    Sometimes, the desire to obtain the perfect solution is the enemy of "good enough for right now."  I've seen this in engineering.  "Good enough" - is often good enough.  That's where I am with vitamin D.

    https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/2/499/htm

    While further research is needed to identify the optimal strategy for vitamin D supplementation and fortification, no reason exists to delay addressing vitamin D deficiency among populations with high prevalence of deficiency such as African Americans. The potential benefits promise to be large, and much evidence indicates that the risks of supplementation up to 4000 IU per day vitamin D are minimal.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:42am

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 2067

    0

    An artemisis annua video.

    Here is a video that will help identify the plant.





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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 4:37am

    #72
    pmcall

    pmcall

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    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 7

    3

    First case of postmortem study in a patient vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2

    I'm not a doctor or a scientist but I wanted to share this with everyone in case there is something interesting in this postmortem that someone with a better background in science can decipher and share with all of us.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221003647?s=09

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 10:19am

    JAG

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 26 2008

    Posts: 818

    1

    Re: Never thought Id say this....

    brushhog: ...I agree completely with JAG here. All this over reliance on studies is a dead end. 2/3rds of all studies cannot be reproduced. 2/3rds!

    LMAO! I must admit that you expressed my thoughts much better than I did. Thank you.

    Maybe a Tejas Gringo and a New Yorker have more in common than it appears. You made my Monday....many thanks.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 10:24am

    #74
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 627

    3

    brushhog said:

    We take antibiotics for bacterial infections.  And ivermectin for COVID.  And we put casts on broken arms.  We presume to be "smarter than nature" with all those interventions.  Now - me - I think that leads to a better quality of life.  I've done all those things.  Some may disagree.  "Nature is smarter - sure I broke my arm, but I'm just gonna let it sit there.  Nature will take care of it for me."  Of course that's a silly example - but interventions come on a spectrum.  We do interventions all the time"

    I agree it is a little bit if a silly example. Whenever anybody dares question the holy science, the faithful jump up with "ANTIBIOTICS!!". Antibiotics were discovered what? A century ago? Sure science hit that one out of the park and so the faithful cling to it while forgetting the 5,000 wrong theories, tragic experiments, and false hopes.

    Lets talk about thalydimide, celebrex, and fentanyl. Lets talk about the overdoses or the half-million deaths from malpractice every year in America. How about those Statins that they prescribed like candy that now it turns out dont do much? Or how about those blood pressure medications they handed out to people with border line hypertension that have shown no demonstrable benefit? How many people have they exposed to serious side effects while playing around with drugs that they really had no idea about?

    Lets talk about the psychiatric drugs that science has handed out like free bubble gum to everyone who's had the slightest inclination toward sadness or anxiety over the past 25 years....drugs that alter brain chemistry in ways "science" has absolutely no idea about?

    Hey, remember the earth was supposed to be under water 10 years ago according "science"? How about the FACT that science was wrong about every single climate change prediction the IPCC ever made? Thats not hyperbole. They have LITERALLY been wrong about every.....single.... prediction. 100% failure rate. I could go on and on and on. Should we talk about the human atrocities committed in India with vaccines? Nah.

    Am I anti-science? Do I think science is bad or completely useless? No. It has a very limited but important place in the world. I just want to inject some perspective and balance into these discussions. For every "antibiotic" level discovery there are hundreds mistakes, global tragedies, and false predictions. There are MILLIONS of studies that cannot be reproduced that lead to wrong conclusions and bad ideas. The fact is MOST of the time the science is wrong. Thats the truth. Any legitimate scientist will readily admit that. When it's right...WOW, big leap forward...but lets remember that the process INCLUDES being wrong. Its  a process of hypothesis...test....wrong...new hypothesis....test....wrong, etc ,etc. We also know that even when the tests and hypothesis are shown to be correct in most studies...they cannot be reproduced so they are usually wrong too.

    Its a long, long process to confirm a scientific discovery, littered along the way by thousands upon thousands of mistakes [ many of them tragic ]. You'll grow old and die before the next big one IMO, and given the power dynamics, politics, and collapsing institutions in this world, we may never see it.

    So people throwing these studies around and trying use "science" to solve every new issue we are faced with or to bolster whatever argument/position they want to advance?...pretty ridiculous. Trying to use every new and old scientific study to navigate life?...its reached a point of mental illness, IMO.

    I had a guy on another forum about archery tell me that he doesnt believe that there is a subconscious, instinctive or intuitive element in sports because "no scientific studies have proven it".  What do you say to these people? Its like a global case of autism.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 10:56am

    #75

    JAG

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 26 2008

    Posts: 818

    8

    Re: nature, supplements, interventions, and good enough

    DF: While I don't depend on the little pills to save me, but neither will I spend inordinate amounts of time to try to search for the perfect foods that will make all my industrial-society-depleted-soil mineral deficiencies go away.

    I predict you will (and you already are....Moringa).

    Warning: I'm going to do my best to write the following clear enough not to be misinterpreted.

    I mean this with all sincerity. DF, you are one smart dude. Your writing is always excellent and you are always learning.

    Here comes the tricky part because I don't want to come across as condescending. In the last 6 months, your ability to understand, analyze, and express medical research has grown exponentially. I've been especially impressed by your ability to translate medical vocabulary and scientific nomenclature into language that we all can understand.

    For twenty years I produced a monthly newsletter for chiropractors and alternative medicine professionals that compiled the latest research on nutraceuticals, and you are so much better at it now than I ever was.

    I always knew you were smart and your work was a big reason why I came back to this community, but now you "dun topped yourself".

    Though we may disagree on a few topics, I want you to know how much I respect you and your work. Thank you.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 11:20am

    #76
    XZBD2

    XZBD2

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    Joined: Apr 15 2020

    Posts: 31

    2

    Science and changing complex systems

     I believe a large part of our current societal problem is a lack of understanding by the general populace of what science is and how it fits into our sense making.  Here is what Webster’s dictionary  has to say:

    sci·​ence | \ ˈsī-ən(t)s

    Definition of science

    1  : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding

    Anyone who has taught science realizes that a child only has to ask “why?” a few iterations in a row to force any honest scientists to admit that the complexity of the system is so great that they don’t really know the answer.  In fact, if you are being honest you have to answer the first “why?” with this is my current best understanding, as science is actually admitting to and being comfortable with the state of not knowing as expressed in the Tao.     Our current understanding, as a result of Edward Lorenz’s work combined with Charles Heisenberg’s work, suggest it is not even theoretically possible to produce a model that does any better than an approximation over time.  No surprise than that our brains are designed to generate successively better approximations.  Stopping when the approximation is good enough (hopefully).  Working with probably the best answer suggest we are often wrong and luck plays an important role in success.  This process relies on a huge number of assumptions, “the story”,   that while necessary are themselves generated through iterative cycles based on previous assumptions both internally and externally, so not all that reliable.  Any hope of being accurate requires constant error correcting based on observations (an open mind/heart), hence the need for regular testing of beliefs in science and learning in general.   As Lorenz showed any small error in initial assumptions, through the iterative process, has the potential to throw the model wildly off (butterfly effect).  To make things even more complicated as illustrated beautifully in the work of Micheal Meade, the assumptions don’t even have to be true to generate useful models and in fact as exemplified with many of the traditional Myths, “untrue” stories can actually generate better working models in certain circumstances (particularly where actual quantification of data is difficult or impossible at the time).  SciFi or something like 1984 come to mind, but any powerful story can help us see the world in a new way.   Just as Chris has done a great job of raising questions about the state of science, I believe folks like Charles Eisenstein and Jordan Peterson have been tackling the usefulness of the current “stories” we live by.  I leaned from Fritjof Capra through systems thinking that as important as it is to understanding the individual objects/players, that as the system gets more complex it is even more important to understand the patterns and process that connect them, as the connections actually tend to play a larger role in the nature of the system.  Here is a link to some short videos on the science of complex systems thinking for those who might be unfamiliar with the concept or its importance: 

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8v2Udd_PM&list=RDCMUCutCcajxhR33k9UR-DdLsAQ&start_radio=1&rv=vp8v2Udd_PM&t=566 

     I must admit a bias as a science teacher I’ve spent much of my life teaching students to use science to question the current assumptions held by those in authority, in a belief that those assumptions are most certainly wrong.  The question is to what degree and how does that influence ones personal model of the world.  Thus, I don’t believe that the models put forward by the World Economic Forum extolling a centrally controlled technocracy are consistent with the science. Quite the opposite, historically any large centrally controlled organization (public or private) has impeded scientific progress as by nature paradigm shifting innovations are developed at the fringe of society and not initially accepted by authorities as by definition they challenge their belief system.  Such is the case with this paradigm shift ,which I suspect will replace much of the Davos crowd’s influence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyi8-qm02hs&list=RDCMUCutCcajxhR33k9UR-DdLsAQ&index=18

    Here is also a nice course on how to change a complex system:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS5y--ODWeU&list=PLsJWgOB5mIMCAD33pve6_HyfuGTlCTQgd&index=1

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 11:59am

    #77
    hogfarmer

    hogfarmer

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 14 2021

    Posts: 5

    3

    Food and nutrition

    My n=1 personal experience with nutrition goes back to humans evolving eating animal based diets (eggs, beef, pork, fish, butter, etc). Plants, sugars, carbohydrates, were minimal as an in season forage. When eating this evolutionary diet, we likely need much different nutrient levels. One theory is that the sugars, carbohydrates or plants alter the absorption of nutrients from our diets or the way the body uses them. I’ve researched some of this in books by Dr. Shawn Baker and Dr. Paul Saladino, leaders of the carnivore community. One of my tests is that after eating strictly animal based for several years, if I go back to the standard American food for a couple meals, I will end up run down every single time (usually a case of the sniffles with lung congestion). I have repeated this test 10 or more times over the years with same results every time (which is large part of why I stick with animal based). I feel the biggest culprit for me is sugars. I grow a garden to feed my livestock. It’s good to bring up liver, eat it somewhat regularly and don’t need to worry about any supplements.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 12:06pm

    #78
    PhilH

    PhilH

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 24 2010

    Posts: 180

    1

    Is the Vaccine dangerous

    The mercola article below would suggest that we are in for one heck of a ride!

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/06/14/covid-19-vaccine-mistake.aspx?

     

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 1:29pm

    #79
    LesterFinn

    LesterFinn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 7

    0

    Identification of multipotent drugs for COVID-19 therapeutics

    Evaluation of existing FDA approved drugs that have the potential for repurposing.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2001037021001252

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 1:31pm

    #80
    gkcjrrt

    gkcjrrt

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 20 2016

    Posts: 49

    2

    Dr, McCullough is fully onboard with global conspiracy FACT

    https://odysee.com/@Corona-Ausschuss:3/Dr.-Peter-A.-McCullough---Sitzung-56-Mit-h%C3%B6llischen-Latwergen:1

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 1:33pm

    #81
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2528

    8

    picking and choosing

    brushhog-

    Sure.  I cherry picked the good stuff.  Antibiotics, casts for my broken arm, and ivermectin.  These are some pretty slick interventions.  I could add niacin to that also.  Maybe you don't need it, but I sure did.  Why on earth would I pick the lame interventions?  Wouldn't that be silly?

    I do agree we most definitely need to use our discernment, especially in an environment where Oligarchy seeks to maximize revenue at the expense of our health.  This latest alzheimer's non-treatment ($56,000/year!) is a prime example.  Pharma is a giant snake oil salesman, that has seized control of medical schools, media, Congress, and our "health" agencies.  Caveat Emptor x 100.  Their "remdesivir" study is a case in point.

    When I look for things that work, mostly I confine my searches to off-patent stuff that shows something promising.  That way, there's less of a chance its corrupt.  Not no chance - but less chance.  I use studies to do this.  I have to read between the lines.  If there are a bunch of slick websites hawking the stuff - I start to become wary.  If nobody makes money, and there is still support, then I look more closely.  And then try it out myself - assuming it applies.

    There's a sort of vibe to "stuff that works, that is cheap" in the studies I've read.  Hard to explain.  One researcher wrote something up in a melatonin/cancer study - a bit mournfully: "but this is a cheap compound, so it is likely that nobody will care."  That got my attention.

    There were some studies in Africa about A Annua and Moringa.  The researchers clearly struggled to get them funded, and then published.  They made slow progress, but they persisted.  And the WHO definitely complained.  That got my attention too.  When the WHO complains, that's a positive signal for me to look more closely.  It's a threat to somebody.

    Everyone is different.  You figure things out using your own process.  I have my process too.  They aren't the same.  But it doesn't mean that mine isn't effective.

    As for the intuition thing - for my next project, I hope to put some sort of metrics around the placebo effect.  How can we train it up?  How can we measure it?  Placebo effect = the ability of your own belief to affect outcomes.  Skip the supplements and go right to your own internal power & belief - whatever system you use.  Then measure the effects.

    Funny thing is, proving that it works, and quantifying how well it works, will (most likely) make it work even better.  I mean, theoretically anyway.  And there are almost certainly lots of ways to get there, too.  If we can train it up, it might even be the most effective mechanism there is.  If true - not even the Pharma-shills at FDA that stole our NAC can take it away from us.

    JAG-

    I appreciate the complement.  Thanks for taking the time to write it up so carefully.  🙂

    20 years is a long time to write about anything.  I can understand why you might be a teensy bit jaded about the supplement industry.  Some areas seem to have that same Pharma-smell about them too.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 1:47pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    2

    Growing your own Artemisia annua

    https://www.johnnyseeds.com/growers-library/flowers/artemisia-sweet-annie/artemisia-sweet-annie-key-growing-information.html

    This is also interesting because Artemesia vulgaris grows as a an aggressive, spreading plant at least here in the Northeastern USA.  The link describes it's antimalarial action, similar to Artemisai annua.  Perhaps it works against covid too.  This would be a big plus for me as I have to work to keep it from aggressively taking over various perennial beds on my property.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 1:56pm

    #83

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    2

    Growing Moringa - zones 10-11 only

    Unfortunately, Moringa is a subtropical tree from Northern India and Bangladesh.  Those of you in zone 10-11 might want to try growing it.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 2:22pm

    #84

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 600

    1

    Moringa

    Trigger warning:  body-stuff

    One of my Tai Ji tribe gave me a moringa seedling about 6" tall just as my son got born.  We planted the seedling on top of his placenta and it shot up like crazy.  Have now transplanted it from a container into the ground at my gf's land.  Trying to get it even bigger (and bushy, as opposed to tall, easier to harvest).  Quite a useful food/medicine plant.  NB:  we are located on the border of 12a-12b, climate wise...

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 2:33pm

    #85

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    5

    Supplements, other interventions in health and health

    Some general interventions I've done over the past year.

    1. Regular stretching, strength training and yoga (the yoga isn't often enough, only 2x/week) including what I learned from my physical therapist to address a slightly out of alignment L4 disk.
    2. A high quality multivitamin.  This one has the best complete  vitamin K1-K2 profile I've seen.
    3. Fish oil on days I don't eat fish with DHA/EPA
    4. A high quality probioitic
    5. Magnesium glycinate - 267 mg/day Mg + what's in the multi..
    6. NAC 1200 mg/day
    7. Zinc and selenenium 2x/week to slightly boost the amount in the multi.
    8. Vitamin D3 5000 IU (7000 including the 2000 in the multi) - Blood level 59 last time measured.
    9. Quercetin - 250 mg 2x/day.
    10. Lions Mane 1 tsp, Astragalus 1tsp 2x/day and Cordyceps 1 tsp 2x/day  - dried powders for immune an neurological support.
    11. Avoiding foods with certain sugar alcohols, lactose, fructose, and complex carbs (known as FODMAPS) and adjusting the restrictions based on my tolerances. And using this product.  I've been buying it for $20 at my local food coop.  I don't know why it's $40 online.
    12. Niacin flush - 500 mg only at 9 AM.  Eat only noon-8 PM.  Sometimes a 2nd flush at bedtime.  I add trimethylglycine, 500 mg to prevent methyl group depletion.
    13. 2 g vitamin C powder dissolved in water and drunk over 5-6 hours.
    14. Eating wild greens/veggies/fruit and greens/veggies/fruit from my garden as well as eggs from my hens as much as possible.

    Most of these have been going for a year or more.  I notice:

    1. Much less back and joint pain.  I can dance much more intensely.  I am much more flexible.
    2. Better skin.
    3. No hemorrhoids.
    4. Huge improvement in digestion.
    5. Better moods, better response to stress.

    In addition, I've been following the protocol in the book Natural Remedies for Low Testosterone by Stephen Harrod Buhner.  His theory supported by at least some data is that ubiquitous estrogen mimicking chemicals lead to prostate problems, low libido and more in middle aged and older males.  He is an herbalist, so his protocol is almost entirely herbal with a few synthetic/extracted hormone precursors.  I started with the full protocol outlined in 2 different chapters and have been gradually dropping the less important components with no loss of benefit.  From my experience pine pollen (libido), nettle root (prostate health), eleuthero and possibly tribulus and asian ginseng are the key components.  I am 56.  I have noticed 2 huge changes 1) I can hold my pee and empty my bladder like I could when I was 20, a huge improvement that suggests my prostate was slightly enlarged and is not anymore. 2) My libido is more or less like it was when I was 20, another huge improvement.  I am a bit concerned about the relationship between severe covid outcomes and androgens, but am continuing this protocol because of the significant benefits.

    A final experiment since late April when I tore the tendon on top of my big toe (tendon intact, but ripped a small chunk of bone off the last bone in the toe, so was effectively severed).  I've been taking glucosamine, turmeric, bromelain and pycnogenol since about 6 days after the injury.  As of about a week ago, my toe is entirely back to normal functioning with some pain if I overuse it.  I don't know what if any role the supplements played in this.

    Thanks Dave for inspiring this experimentation.  My goal is to get to the minimum viable solution since a regime this extensive takes time, mental space and money to maintain.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:25pm

    #86
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2528

    0

    testosterone & COVID19

    QB-

    That sounds like a pretty interesting program to me!  Congrats on getting rid of the back pain.  I really tried doing yoga, but it just didn't resonate.  I know its good for me.  Sigh.

    I totally agree with eliminating stuff and seeing if anything changes.  I write down everything, and this has really helped me to identify stuff I did that might have made a difference.  That's how I spotted the change in alcohol consumption.  Not what I was going for, just some emergent effect.

    I saw this study which might shed some light.  This is along the lines of something Chris suggested a million years ago.  Check everything, and see what correlates.  These guys did this for various hormone levels and COVID19.  Guess what popped up?

    Testosterone!  The higher it was, the better people did.  Oops, when I say people, I mean men, not women.  Or should I say - non-birthing-people?  Its so confusing now!

    I'll stick with "men".

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2780135

    This cohort study found that men with severe COVID-19 had approximately 65% to 85% lower testosterone concentrations compared with men with a milder disease course, and this difference was independent of other known risk factors associated with severity of COVID-19, such as age, BMI, comorbidities, smoking, and race...

    Our study results suggest that, unlike the common presumption, testosterone may not be a propagator of COVID-19 severity in either gender. On the contrary, it may be protective in men.

    In contrast to the lower circulating testosterone concentrations, our data on gene enrichment showed an upregulation of androgen (and estrogen) signaling pathways in circulating monocytes in men with severe COVID-19.

    Median [interquartile range] testosterone concentrations were:

    - severe group (n=66), day 0: 53 [18 to 114] ng/dL, vs milder group (n=24): 151 [95 to 217] ng/dL; P = .01)

    - severe group (n=66), day 3: 19 [6 to 68] ng/dL vs milder group (n=24):  111 [49 to 274] ng/dL; P = .006)

    This data point does suggest that your regimen may not be putting you in any danger.  And it also hints at why those anti-androgens do so well, although the authors temporize on this point.

    Our study could not determine whether testosterone was a marker or a mediator associated with COVID-19 severity. We did not know the pre-illness serum testosterone concentrations in our study patients. Because patients who came to the hospital were already symptomatic, it is likely that their admission testosterone concentrations had already declined dramatically compared with their baseline concentrations. Alternatively, it is also possible that the men who developed severe COVID-19 had testosterone concentrations that were chronically less than the reference range, even prior to their illness

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:36pm

    #87
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 627

    3

    Testosterone

    Trying to raise testosterone? Lifting weights helps quite a bit. So does playing sports. Oddly enough, chopping wood was found to raise testosterone as well;

     

    researchers examined testosterone levels in a group of Tsimane forager-farmers in the Bolivian Amazon after playing soccer and also after chopping down trees to clear a jungle for crops. Saliva samples were collected from the Bolivian farmers after they completed both physical activities. Dr. Ben Trumble from the Institute of Social, Behavioral and Economic Research at the University of California, Santa Barbara and his colleagues found that one hour of chopping trees spiked testosterone levels by 48 percent in men of all ages, regardless of their state of health. In contrast, during a soccer game, testosterone levels only increased by 30.1 percent

    Whataya know, science finds that men doing natural man stuff makes men more manly. After ten thousand studies they'll find that cooking, cleaning and taking care of babies makes women more feminine 😉

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:39pm

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 318

    2

    DaveDD said:

    Hi QB,

    Last year I investigated AA together with another Dave on this forum.  I did find an article about the artemisinin content of several artemisia species; as far as I remember, almost all species have some artemisinin in them. Here are some links (link1, link2, link3)

    The artemisinin content is ~5x less however (link1, link2). Finally, some links about other compounds in artemisia species (link1, link2).

    FYI, I used AA last year during my covid episode. The effect of AA was near immediate body temp regulation, 15 minutes after taking AA. I used both Artemisinin compound, and dried AA. My vitamin C bowel tolerance dropped from 150grams per day, yes, no kidding, to around 40 grams per day. The real kicker was quinine in the form of cinchona bark tea. Last month I found an article that suggested this is even more effective than HCQ against covid (link).

    Since then I stacked Artemisinin, Artemisia Annua, and another, dried, Artemisia species. The latter one makes for some really nice tea. But, my n=1 experiment suggests that it should be part of a suite of supplements.

    I used/use: NAC, zink, selenium, vitamin D, melatonin, cinchona (once a week, tea made from 2grams bark), magnesium, etc. AA, high dose of vitamin C, elderberry sirup etc, are reserved for the next time we have a covid patient in our place.

    Grts, Dave

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:52pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    0

    Testosterone

    Manly stuff- - great!

    Pine pollen seems to be the key herb for testosterone.  It is present in significant amounts in the pollen of most Pinus species, especially scotch pine (planted around here in places).  I tried collecting some a month ago.  I spent maybe 20 minutes collecting and another 20 processing to detatch the male flowers and shake out the pollen.  The result was enough for less than a day's worth of tincture.  If it isn't available commercially someday, I will work hard for my youthfulness.  But then again manly activities and trashing my couch, mattress and other stuff with flame retardants in them will do the trick.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 3:56pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    1

    Yea for testosterone!

    So testosterone might be protective or at least not a risk factor.  That is great news because I like the new me! Thanks for finding that Dave.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 4:49pm

    #91
    LesterFinn

    LesterFinn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 7

    1

    Pine Needle / peppermint tea

    I'll add to the many interventions mentioned previously (quite a few that I follow) one that I like that was not noted.

    pine needle / peppermint tea (antioxidant + VitC)

    I drink this chilled and find it very refreshing on a hot day.  I also add to veggie/fruit smoothies.

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 5:01pm

    GoneGalt

    GoneGalt

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2012

    Posts: 8

    3

    LifeExtension

    I too have utilized LifeExtension for lab work.  I would recommend that when ordering, you request the kit.  This provides the phlebotomist/lab with everything they need in order to draw blood and ship it back to LifeExtension's lab for testing (which I believe is in FL).  The lab you choose will charge you a fee to do the draw.  For me, I used my preferred hospital system and paid a $50 fee for the service.

    Results are relatively fast, easy to download from their portal and if you want, one of their providers will review the results with you.  This is of value if you are not getting the best advice or support from your current physician.

    I think one of the biggest take-aways from this COVID disaster is to recognize the only person in charge of your health is -- you.  And with that knowledge, we can each begin the emotional, psychological and physical changes that come with recognizing that the current system is not interested in keeping us healthy, but rather keeping us ill so that we continue to feed their coffers.

     

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  • Mon, Jun 14, 2021 - 5:22pm

    verme

    verme

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 06 2021

    Posts: 7

    1

    Orlov is even more pessimistic after last year's fun

    https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2020/11/watch-this.html

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 12:00am

    #94

    travissidelinger

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 269

    0

    Should we vaccinate our children?

    Chris -  You had some numbers in your video on risk to reward ratio over vaccinating our kids for covid.  Can you be specific on how you came to those numbers?  Can you and show the math?

     

    -Travis

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 12:39am

    #95

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    19

    Man up Travis. Take the lead. Do the math yourself.. these are your kids.

    You can give your kids Ivermectin if you want..   But if you have to ask somebody else to make the decision for you, I suggest you don't have the backbone for this..   Grow some balls and fight for your kids.  They.  Don't.  Need.  This.  Vaccine.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 12:49am

    #96

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    10

    OK I'll help Travis... kids chance of dying Covid at current case levels? 2 in 100,000,000

     

    Cases of post Vax Mycarditis in WA State alone right now?  63

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 12:52am

    #97

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    1

    NAC is now available in 500 gram packages from bulk supplements.co

    https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/n-acetyl-l-cysteine-nac?variant=32133437325423

    Also in 250 and 100 grams.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 4:49am

    Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2014

    Posts: 484

    0

    Child Covid-19 Jabs - Risk-Benefit Analysis

    Travis,

    This might help you out:

    Sacrifice – The Wodanian Ethics

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 8:06am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 700

    5

    Studies on taking supplements don’t support their efficacy

    For example, a mega vitamins C supplement is less effective than the lesser amount of vitamins C delivered by an apple.  Plant foods contain micronutrients that we haven't studied.  It would seem the supplement delivery system plays a role in the supplements effectiveness.

    Are supplements merely a way for people to attempt, perhaps unsuccessfully, to rectify an otherwise extremely unhealthy diet?

    The science on good nutrition points overwhelmingly in a specific direction.  It is not that the science is unclear, it’s just extremely unpopular.

    At this juncture, it is a rare person, even on this website, who is open minded about studies/science that encourages them to give up their “favorite” foods.

    We wring our hands about opioid addictions, but don’t talk about food addictions in today’s society.  Yet, cardiovascular disease is the number one killer, today, not opioid overdoses.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 8:31am

    Kathy

    Kathy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 351

    5

    I guarantee supplements work for me

    Like anything I am sure there is a lot of variability.

    There was a point in my life I was so anemic that I had an extra pair of new leather sneakers in my closet, “mint, in the box,” that I would regularly sniff.  Lots of ice chewing too.  Two weeks on iron supplements and the desire to sniff sneakers or chew ice was gone.   Looking back I can give you crazy examples of my drive to chew ice.

    After that experience my first line of defense when something seems a bit strange is what nutrient might I be missing?  Then I do the study by taking a supplement or two.  If it works to alleviate the issue, I keep taking it for awhile.

    I don’t really care what the big science says, the only science that matters is my own personal science fair project.

    P.S. I’ve had really good luck with the eye vitamins.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 10:00am

    Andy in the Sun

    Andy in the Sun

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 28 2021

    Posts: 60

    2

    Best eating time window

    Great protocol QB  (thunbs up)!

    But one thing I recommend to tune a little...

    Eat only noon-8 PM.

    This is not optimal - better is 6AM to 3 PM. Intermediate fasting is great but the timing is important! Dr Brad Stanfield has an interesting summary on this.

    In another video from an interesting Doctor I learned about the eating - circadian cycle relationship. Eating until 8PM will keep your insulin level too high too long into the evening suppressing melaotonin level, proper onset of sleep and will reduce the HGH spike around midnight - something you definitely do not want.

    If you are interested I an dig out the two videos for you.

     

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 10:31am

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 636

    7

    Supplements - for consumption and plan B

    Not everyone can garden and grow their own food, especially year round. Not everyone has the ability to process, can, dry or freeze significant quantities of fresh produce for later consumption. Not all soil is providing the necessary nutrients to the plants or fruit/nut trees growing in that soil - in fact many soils are full of harmful pesticides and herbicides.

    I take supplements for this reason - to further add to the nutritional value of the foods I eat. My deep pantry includes not just food but also supplements and medicines. What if there are food shortages (widely predicted and occurring in many places now) that impact my ability to buy all those healthy veggies and fruits? What if food inflation, already rampant, causes me to have to cut back on what I can buy? What if there is a cyber attack or power outage - how long could I last? Well, with a water supply and filter, and a lot of supplements in addition to my stores, I will do better than most people.

    There is no magic bullet. We have to consume and plan according to our own personal risk profiles & preferences, and what we have researched and believe to be true. We have to be system non-conformists.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 11:35am

    JAG

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 26 2008

    Posts: 818

    4

    Re: Man up Travis. Take the lead. Do the math yourself.. these are your kids.

    Jim_H: You can give your kids Ivermectin if you want..   But if you have to ask somebody else to make the decision for you, I suggest you don't have the backbone for this..   Grow some balls and fight for your kids.  They.  Don't.  Need.  This.  Vaccine.

    This is just pure bullying and you owe Travis an apology. Just the fact that you are so certain that you are correct should make any thinking person doubt your argument, Jimmy.

    And talking about testicular hypertrophy...there is a supplement for that. But I'm sure you have several bottles already.

    What. A. Butthole.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 11:36am

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    2

    With that said, Jan

    I noticed that bulksupplements.com has 500g bags of NAC back in stock.  Get them now before the FDA takes them away.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 11:48am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    14

    No JAG.. sometimes in a tribe you need to give your brother a slap in the face.

    It is wrong to give kids this vaccine.  Plain and simple.  I will not apologize for trying to help a brother save his kids from this untested medical treatment.  Travis needs to get his Alpha on in this case.  Alpha is not just about muscle, it's about intellect too.  These in combination.

    Just the fact that you are so certain that you are correct should make any thinking person doubt your argument

    If you are not convinced of the certainty that the risk vs reward is horribly skewed for kids toward the risk side, then you live in a world where nothing is knowable JAG.  I feel sorry for you.

     

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 11:52am

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    8

    I did the math a few weeks ago.

    I don't remember the thread, but here's a summary:

    Infection fatality rate for 15 year old girl: 1/50K according to CDC.  Adjust to 1/100K for my healthy daughter with good vitamin D level.

    Death rate per year assuming 1/6 chance of infection (including all of those undetected asymptomatic infections - this is based on seroprevalence studes): 1/600K

    Add ivermectin treatment if she gets sick: divide by 5: 1 in 3 million.

    Assume serious complications rate is 10x death rate: 1 in 300K.

    Now the vaccine: Documented death rate is about 6000/180 million = 1/30K, but is probably significantly higher.  It is probably be lower (than the true valu3 that is probably much higher than  1/30K) for teens, perhaps significantly, but the vaccine will likely only protect for a year and it's certainly higher than 1 in 3 million.

    Documented serious adverse events:  Hard to measure, but we have myocarditis at perhaps 1/6000 for girls.  Even mild cases increase risk of heart issues including congestive heart failure in middle age.  Pfizer trial had 1 of the 1100 12-15 year olds with a serious neurological adverse event that is ongoing.  I bet the prevalence of serious adverse events will ultimately be one in a few hundred when all possible adverse events are added together.

    This is a no-brainer.  The vaccine is a poor bet for 12-15 year olds and almost certainly up to age 30 and likely well beyond, perhaps to 65 or 70 for healthy people.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 12:45pm

    JAG

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 26 2008

    Posts: 818

    2

    Re: Jimmy

    If you are not convinced of the certainty that the risk vs reward is horribly skewed for kids toward the risk side, then you live in a world where nothing is knowable JAG.  I feel sorry for you.

    That is the whole point regarding the vaccines....nothing is knowable. It's all a big unknown, if you are being intellectually honest with yourself.

    I happen to agree that vaccinating kids is probably not wise at this point, with the lack of information that we have. But I would never be so cocky as to tell someone what they should do or not do, and I am a medical professional (are you?).

    And to bully someone who is trying to make their own decision by asking a legitimate question, is just pure self-serving delusion of superiority. You don't care about your fellow "tribe member" when you bully them to see things your way.

    I feel sorry for you, waving your sign in your front yard and yelling at your neighbors. Show some respect for other people and let them make their own decisions.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 1:06pm

    Canuckian

    Canuckian

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 27 2010

    Posts: 74

    1

    Picking and choosing

    brushhog-

    Sure. I cherry picked the good stuff. Antibiotics, casts for my broken arm, and ivermectin. These are some pretty slick interventions. I could add niacin to that also. Maybe you don't need it, but I sure did. Why on earth would I pick the lame interventions? Wouldn't that be silly

    I love what you wrote. Makes sense. We are on our own unfortunately. Time to dig deep.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 1:14pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    17

    The lie: "It's all a big unknown, if you are being intellectually honest with yourself."

    It's not all unknown.  We know that cases of mycarditis are popping up all over the country in mostly young men.  We know that in animal models the LNP bioaccumulates in the ovaries far more than any organ other than the spleen, into which the lymph nodes drain (i.e. this would be expected).  We know that the signal from VAERS is that these vaccines are more damaging by far than the previous baseline made up of flu and other vaccines.  Saying that "it's all a big unknown" is simply untrue.  Your argument is not holding up JAG.

    We also know the risk side of the equation.  Kids have very low risk of being damaged by Covid-19 due to the strength of their innate immune systems.

    Yes, there are still unknowns, the biggest of which remain on the (vaccine) risk side of the equation, because we are exposing our kids to unknown long term consequences.

    You don't like my style.  I get it.  I am Okay with you not liking me.. I will still upvote your stuff if it adds to my understanding of how the world works.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 2:03pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 298

    6

    Travis' question

    I think a re-reading of Travis' post #94 is in order.  He didn't ask Chris if he should jab HIS kids, but rather "our kids", which I assume to mean as a society.  A question I've already answered for myself, but aren't all questions valid?  Not deserving of a personal attack.  Notice how tensions seem to be rising here in the heat of battle?  Take a deep breath.....Aloha, Steve

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 2:44pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    6

    The view from a mother who knows.....

    From the growing comment thread on Medscape;

    https://www.medscape.com/sites/public/covid-19/vaccine-insights/how-concerned-are-you-about-vaccine-related-adverse-events?fbclid=IwAR0yTzG4lUV9qAq8oW3W6_CeG9n6zNiDi8xJnufmOGaiRJv_Q-Joo6NN5zs

    Sonya T                               5 days ago
    I am an RN and hospital administrator. I experienced neurological symptoms that lasted 12h post dose 1 and several months post dose 2. Involuntary movements of my thumb in the vaccinated arm as well as hand. Muscle twitching in parts of my face, headaches, generalized fatigue x 4 months with napping and going to bed by 8pm. I was a healthy 38 year old nurse and mom of 2 but the zip of energy I’ve always had feels gone. I get muscle pain after limited activity in various parts of my body which I keep hoping will just continue to subside with time. My menstrual cycle has always been a solid 28 days but now it is random.. 25 days, now shortened to 21 days..painful the first and second day which I have never had before, with numerous tiny clots like the piles on a sweater. I have never seen such a thing and it worries me. My clotting factors, neurological system and perhaps hormone balance all seem off. I was the first group to receive Moderna in Canada-December 2020. Would I take the vaccine again? Yes, but I am finished reproducing. Would I let either of my children take it? No way.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 4:19pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 792

    4

    With regard to depleted foods

    It's not just soil depletion, it's crop breeding for shelf life, appearance, sweetness and "taste", ease of chewing (think lettuce) that often results in varieties that are lower in minerals and vitamins even in good soil.

    So wild plants and minimally bred crops are a good place to start.  This time of year, greens of dandelion, garlic mustard, violet, chickweed, dock, various chenopodiums (be careful, some are not so edible) and much more are available.  Research shows they are higher in vitamins and minerals than any traditional garden green.

    Wild fruit (strawberries, raspberries, etc.) and minimally bred shrub fruits that tend to be in permaculture plantings (mulberry, honey berry which is a type of honeysuckle, goumi - a member of the genus eleagnus) and much more are rich in vitamins, minerals and phytochemicals.

    Finally, get to know the permaculture workhorses known as dynamic accumulators.  Comfrey is one of the best.  There are varieties that make good chicken feed and others that are sterile so they don't spread (it will spread slowly, but aggressively).  It sends it's roots down 6 feet or more to scavenge minerals that would otherwise leach out of reach of even the deepest rooted plants.  It then accumulates these minerals in it's copious and heavy leaves and stems.  I cut it multiple times per year for use as garden mulch and chicken feed.  Since I've started this, I can see the increase in garden productivity.  Even the lowly dandelion is a decent dynamic accumulator.  I always leave it in my garden bed and harvest the leaves for greens.

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  • Tue, Jun 15, 2021 - 7:02pm

    Andy in the Sun

    Andy in the Sun

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 28 2021

    Posts: 60

    3

    The microbial world in the soil and nutritional value of our food

    @QB

    Although the mineral content of the soils are different and vary greatly it’s the microbial world in the soil that makes these minerals accessible and available for the plants. In many cases the poor mineral/nutrient content of the food is a result of dead soil… or better said planted in sand. That’s also the reason hydro culture cannot replace a proper natural setup - in my opinion.

    I don’t know in which climate zone you are living but have you tried the Hügelkultur method of Sepp Holzer? Actually it is not invented by him… it is actually a hundreds of years old way of German and eastern Europe horticulture.

    In this method the buried wood becomes the breeding ground for many microbes and a constant resupply for the topsoil.

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  • Wed, Jun 16, 2021 - 11:28am

    tinarock

    tinarock

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 10 2010

    Posts: 25

    0

    NAC

    NAC is available. Just look at

    https://www.iherb.com/search?kw=nac

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  • Thu, Jun 17, 2021 - 6:28am

    Terminator

    Terminator

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 59

    5

    Lack of consequences

    There might be an underlying concept at most of the current state of affairs.

    Our time seems to be engrained with the complete lack of consequences. And it's this "reality" that allows for a lot of bad behaviour.

    When you were tempted to take a cookie from the jar without permission, as a child you got reprimanded and might get the proverbial slap of the wrist. Today's advesaries have more on their track record than just that stolen cookie but still face less consequences, they even get media sponsorship. And of course we might be all wrong about this, but at least Fauci needs to be investigated diligently for the stuff that appears to have happened.

    But it's not just Fauci, there are hordes of like minded, if you happen to take a journey on twitter and glance in the sheer amount of dirt that is being excreted... by users that have no other demonstrable capability than the fact they were able to sign up. Shocking!

    I listened to a podcast between Sam Harris and Lex Fridman recently (if you are into intellectual conversations this might be the epitome, but be warned), it was a little offtopic but both are into some form of martial arts and what stills sticks with me is the fact that some martial arts are quite unforgiving, there is a real consequence (suffering!) when you are not good at it and try to engage a trained opponent. Having the skills drives respect for each other, something I strongly adhere to, pretending skills is a no-go if the rammification is a direct knock-out. Also there is no walking away victoriously when you have lost the game, no pretending here either. The lack of consequences seems to have permeated through most of our society and became obvious to those in power, I wish we could alter this as I believe that society would be much better off if there were real consequences (in this life, with respect to whatever you might believe) to real wrong doing.

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  • Sat, Jun 19, 2021 - 5:11pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1579

    1

    to Dave Fairtex about moringa taste

    Dave,

    One project my son worked on in the Peace Corps when he was in Nepal was growing and marketing moringa.  The leaves were looked upon as an excellent source of plant protein and other nutrients and farming it was looked upon as a means for Nepalese farmers to gain an increased measure of economic success and independence through marketing and selling this valuable plant food, not only locally for food security, but equally importantly, to more affluent countries for the revenue that would bring in.

    As a consequence, I ate moringa from a number of different sources including Nepal, India, and Africa.  I would never say it tasted great but I do recall one batch of African moringa that I ate that tasted downright terrible (and this is from someone who has routinely eaten a variety of healthy foods that many people eschew due to them "tasting bad").  I cannot be sure but my guess, from the taste and the smell, is that some of those bad tasting batches of moringa may have been contaminated, probably by molds or fungi.  Being processed in hot, humid Third World countries, I could very easily envision how this problem would occur.

    You may want to try a different brand of moringa from a different geographical source and see how it tastes.  It is indeed a superfood loaded with an abundance of nutrients but I've noticed how the price has gotten way out of line and I personally didn't experience enough of a benefit to make the cost worthwhile. 

    I eat the green leaves from edible local plants instead.  They're completely free, fresh, and loaded with nutrition as well (although they do not have the protein content of the moringa leaves).  We freeze some to carry us through the cold weather months.

    Hope this helps.       

     

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  • Sat, Jun 19, 2021 - 5:31pm

    acesovereggs

    acesovereggs

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 45

    1

    Consequences

    There are extremely severe consequences if you are part of the 99%, ask anyone in prison for a non violent 'crime'.

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  • Thu, Jun 24, 2021 - 5:44pm

    mark@markpipkin.com

    [email protected]

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 24 2021

    Posts: 1

    1

    Fauci is Profiting from these Corrupt Drug Approvals

    It may be even worse with Fauci.  This is an interview at the Children's Health Defense with RFK, Jr and David Martin, a patent specialist (among other things).  They are claiming that Fauci is involved in the entire process of illegally funneling federally funded patents to, in this case, Moderna, promoting the vaccine and personally profiting from it.  RFK, Jr is a little painful to listen to but there is a transcript below the video.

    ‘TRUTH’ With RFK, Jr. and David Martin: Fauci’s Checkered Past, Moderna’s Warp Speed Vaccine

     

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