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    As The World Burns

    Personal safety & security are quickly becoming more important in this era of growing social rage
    by Chris Martenson

    Friday, May 29, 2020, 6:35 PM

Decades of unfairness are now boiling over in the United States in the form of protests, riots, burning buildings and violence.

Minneapolis is on fire – literally – and the unrest has spread to numerous other major cities.

Last year (2019) The Yellow Vest protesters in France dealt with enormous amount of police violence and intimidation as they put life and limb on the line to try and wrest better economic and living conditions for themselves.

The people of Hong Kong are back out in force again now that the Coronavirus threat has abated, seeking greater autonomy and control over their own lives. Last year (2019) Chileans also protested, seeking better wages and living conditions.

While the specific demands of each of these movements are unique, they all share common causes.

Our analysis at Peak Prosperity is this: the days of constant exponential growth on a finite planet are drawing to a close. All of the systems that govern the sharing of resources among humans – political, economic and especially financial – are designed to concentrate, not share, wealth.

Taken together, we have an economic pie that is no longer growing but is subject to a set of laws and financial predation that guarantee the wealthy get more than their fair share of what remains.

This leads to increasingly visible, palpable unfairness.

Primates hate that:

In today’s world, it’s grapes for the elites and cucumbers for the rest of us (if we’re even that lucky).

That’s been the model for a long time, but lately it’s been both accelerating and exposed for all to see.

Team Elite™ is busy gorging on grapes. It has granted itself $trillions of freshly printed dollars from the US Federal Reserve in order to prop up ‘their fair share of things’ like bonds, stocks, and derivatives.

That leads to these sorts of jarring headline juxtapositions:

(Source and source)

Without any question whatsoever, the Federal Reserve has been printing up money like crazy and stuffing it into every crevice of the US financial markets in a bid to…well, drive up financial asset prices.

They’ve been extremely tone deaf the entire way while pretending that their aim isn’t to make the rich richer, or deliver fatter profits to banks. Of course, both of those things are indeed happening as a direct result of the Fed’s policies and anybody with eyes can see that — yet the media refuses to acknowledge this.

Really, it’s extremely easy to identify. Here’s what ‘grapes for the wealthy!’ looks like — see that $3 trillion spike since April?

All of that printing leads to some stocks now being at their priciest ratio to earnings ever:

That means that those holding them are being rewarded like never before. And don’t forget that the richest 10% of Americans own over 84% of all stocks

We also see the same price-goosing with bonds. Corporate bonds are now once again approaching historically low yields which means, in the see-saw language of bonds, they are almost as pricey as they’ve ever been. In history:

Who received the benefits of that gigantic cluster of grapes that the Fed has lavished upon the bond markets?

Well, the owners of all those bonds of course, and the major corporations now able to borrow at rock bottom costs even as small and medium sized enterprises are being wiped out.

As I often say, the Fed doesn’t actually create wealth, it redistributes wealth.  While doing that it is both directly and indirectly picking winners and losers.

The above chart of corporate bond yields says the Fed is picking large corporations and the wealthy elite  over small companies and Main Street folks.

Of course, there are no grapes quite as sweet as the ‘special interest’ varietals that are served to only the wealthiest of real estate investors:

The only thing that could make this worse would be for some White House official to condescendingly insult all us regular people by referring to us in non-human terms.

Oops:

(Source)

I have dozens more such examples. But I trust you get the point: the vast unfairness of the US system is now exposed for all to see. And that inequity has become even more predatory in our hour of need during the Covid-19 pandemic. Which is why social frustration and angst are now in the process of boiling over.

The reason why is as old as civilization itself, showing up ever since the first group of humans organized themselves into a cultural pyramid:

People often ask me why I shake my angry monkey-fist at the Federal Reserve so often. It’s because of the above quote. I’m the sort that prefers to avoid unnecessary pain and suffering. The Federal Reserve seems to be institutionally ignorant of the above fatal ailment.

What the Fed is doing is wholly unnecessary and manifestly unfair. It will lead to tears yet, regrettably, it is completely avoidable. Grapes for Wall Street, and cucumbers (or worse) for everyone else. It’s just how they’re wired. They literally cannot help themselves,. So things are certain to get worse before they get better.

It All Boils Over

The institutional failures of the Federal Reserve aside, there are also the obvious failures of management (I can’t bring myself to call them ‘leadership’ anymore) at our major health institutions, politicians who are far quicker to the rescue of major corporations than constituents, politicized and even falsified ‘science’ coming from formerly respected institutions, the list goes on and on.

Every one of these breaches of public trust undermines our collective safety and security. Beyond some incalculable level the foundation gives way.

The lowest level of management in this story are the police. For decades many police departments have been heavily militarized and trained often by Israelis who’ve done a remarkable job embedding the mindset of occupying forces into US policing.

Toss in some unresolved racial biases and animosity, civil asset forfeiture, no-knock raids for petty reasons that routinely result in innocent lives being violently taken, and you’ve got a tinder pile waiting for a spark.

George Floyd was that spark. A particularly callous officer with a long string of unpunished claims of excessive force and violence lodged against him, knelt on George’s neck until he was dead while 3 other officers stood by and casually watched.  Against the backdrop outlined above, this was one flagrant abuse too many.

Editorially, the person now being vetted as a possible VP for the Biden campaign, Amy Klobuchar was the prosecutor in Minneapolis for many years who could have delivered justice to the lower classes. Let’s check her record:

Sadly, this is a record that can be found in hundreds of other cities. It’s neither an uncommon nor a defensible record. As a reminder, in the aftermath of the Michael Brown killing and riots in Ferguson MO (2014) the justice department came in and discovered that in a city of 20,000 mostly poor people there were 16,000 outstanding arrest warrants.  Think about that for a second.

Many for infractions like ‘impeding pedestrian flow’ (a.k.a. standing on the sidewalk). The humans were little more that ATM livestock for the police and court machinery to exploit.

And so, with the killing of George Floyd, Minneapolis exploded.

There’s More Unrest On The Way. Get Prepared.

Welcome everyone to these turbulent times.

We all want to live in a just, fair, and safe world. Some people are born into peaceful times. Others aren’t so lucky. History goes through its turnings.

Well, here we are, smack in the middle of a whopper of a fourth turning. So let’s make the most of it.

I take the safety and security of myself and the people around me very seriously. Because it’s my responsibility I train, and I plan, and I think things through.

My home is in a town I judge to be very safe, and I’m not the fearful sort, so I really have to push myself to prioritize the other steps. Which I am doing because it has to be done.

The calm days are over. There’s a new future coming, one that promises to be a lot more interesting as the old Chinese saying goes.

I wish I believed that the worst of the social unrest was behind us. I don’t. Given the actions of the Fed and Plutarch’s quote, and the total lack of any pushback from the media on these matters, I am anticipating grapes for the elites and worse-than-cucumbers for everyone else for many years to come.

Which means it’s time for you to more seriously consider your approach to personal security, especially if you live in or near a city. I certainly am.

As a true mark of the turning, a growing number of my friends who would never have considered owning a gun before are now thinking about doing so. All sorts of formerly ‘hard’ decisions suddenly become up for grabs when folks start feeling more physically vulnerable.

But personal security is far more than ‘owning a gun.’ It’s a mindset as well as a behavior set. And above all, it’s about avoiding trouble in the first place.

It includes taking sensible steps to protect your home from being an easy target for crime. It means having a plan and well-practiced skills in place to keep yourself and your loved ones safe from violence. It means aligning with neighbors to watch each others’ backs. It means practicing with whatever tools or systems you adopt so that they are second nature to you if you ever have to use them.

For those without extensive experience and training (which I assume is just about everyone reading this), the best presentation I’ve ever seen covering the practical essentials you need to know to maximize your odds of staying safe is this video from Peak Prosperity member Tom C., a 19-year veteran inner city police sergeant, given at our most recent annual seminar:

Here’s a brief 3-minute clip from it in which Tom is fielding Q&A on the audience’s top concerns:

Tom’s full seminar presentation is 48 minutes long and addresses key safety & security issues including how to reduce your threat risk profile, situational awareness, what to do (both mindset and actions) if in danger, how to create “layers” of defenses, as well as good home security options. Peak Prosperity’s premium members can watch it in full here.

Not a premium member yet? Enroll now to get access to the video.

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343 Comments

  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 6:53pm

    #1
    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    5

    Had my anti-bodies test

    I had an anti-body test.  It was fast and painless.

    But I was sad about the results, negative.

    I did have covid hands the other week.

    Oh well, it is, what it is.

     

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 6:53pm

    #2
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 1064

    3

    The mare is settled....

    .....and the filly has been exposed.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 8:32pm

    #3
    centroid

    centroid

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 84

    6

    centroid said:

    expose a big truth, keep repeating it until the world knows the truth:

    All roads lead back to the fiat money system:

    Broken countries.  Broken trade. Broken bond markets. Broken manufacturing. Broken businesses. Broken housing markets. Broken Labour markets. Broken people.  Mal-investments. Wealth inequality. Big Government. Mass immigration. Overpopulation. Nature fighting back. Wars. Even climate change.

    End the FED. End the ECB. End the BOJ. End the PBOC. End the BOE. End the SNB. End the RBA

    Bring back The Classical Gold Standard.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 8:36pm

    #4

    Rector

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 381

    11

    Lots of People Buying Guns

    I started a side business in 2012 teaching handgun licensing classes and conducting private self defense training which I later expanded to firearms and ammunition sales.  My thinking at the time was to find a business that might grow inversely with the state of the society - the worse things got, the more money I would make.  The plan was to offset losses in my "normal" job that would result from the inevitable breakdown of the economy.

    This was one of the best decisions I made (financially) as I have been training and selling like mad for the past few years but especially the last 3 months.

    Mostly first time gun owners interested in self defense and home defense.  I have literally sold every single round of ammunition and every firearm I had in my inventory, and have had training requests double.

    This latest spasm of destruction will just make the situation worse.  Interesting times.

    Rector

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 8:55pm

    #5
    Piobaireachder

    Piobaireachder

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 13 2020

    Posts: 3

    8

    V for Vendetta

    Re-watching the movie V for Vendetta in the middle of the Coronapocalypse.  It’s amazing how closely this distopic sci-fi movie matches the current state of the world.   I won’t add any spoilers so if you haven’t seen it, now is a good time to watch a very underrated film.  If you have seen it before, rewatching the movie now is a very different experience than it would have been back in 2005.

     

     

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 9:35pm

    #6
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    5

    CanadianPrepper, "America is Burning: BE READY!" (video)

    I posted this earlier today on another thread before Chris' article(s) came out.

    "Another thoughtful video from Nate at CanadianPrepper, this time regarding the recent protests concerning George Floyd's death, "America is Burning: BE READY!" (5/29/20)."

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 11:02pm

    #7

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    8

    On The Lighter Side

    Someone asked for pictures of a chicken coop. This one seems applicable to the current troubles. Ask yourself, are you inside the chicken coop or outside of it.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 5:40am

    #8

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 639

    8

    Reactive

    The security and self defense strategies discussed here are reactive.  The people protesting the death of George Floyd are, IMHO doing it wrong, but they are being proactive.

    Reactive strategies have limits.

    I’m not a huge fan of Trump, but I’ll use one of his sound bites to simplify my point.  We will not “drain the swamp” with reactive strategies.  Proactive strategies will be required.

    For example, most of us will, if infected with Covid-19, not be allowed to choose the course of treatment we believe to be most effective.  We talk about it, but that isn’t rapidly changing anything.

    That’s just one small example of the crisis that is barelling down on us.  Yet, for the most part, we just quietly watch and prepare.  I include myself in that indictment.

     

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 5:59am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 639

    9

    Cruel and seriously hilarious, but more to the point honest

    it.

    I went plant based for health and nutritional reasons, but once you make that transition, you can no longer ignore what animal agriculture has, by necessity, become.  Books and films about plant based nutrition, invariably include small sections on animal cruelty and the effects of animal agriculture on the environment.

    There is no longer enough arable land to meet the ever increasing demand for meat without CAFOs (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations).

    When I was growing up, we raised cattle.  Animal agriculture today bears no resemblance to how we ranched in the 1960s.

    If people knew, in detail, how their fast food meat was sourced, a large number of them would reconsider their eating habits, solely on the basis of animal cruelty.

    The plant based lifestyle profoundly benefits health, the environment and animal cruelty.

    Pick your favorite reason and consider recovering from the rampant (and society encouraged) food addiction crisis.  If you think it’s not an addiction, I encourage you to do some research in that regard.

    Post script on humor:  In the Sci-fi novel “Stranger In A Strange Land,” Robert A. Heinlein makes the point that humor is misunderstood. There is invariable a dark side, or “fall guy” involved,  You laugh, so you won’t have to cry.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 6:16am

    #10

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    28

    Can't change the system from the inside

    These people understand that they cannot change the system from the inside.  They are profoundly powerless.  I include myself in this group of the powerless.

    As a doctor, I cannot prescribe HCQ w Zinc for SC2 in Virginia, for example.  There is no defense against false charges from the FBI, confiscation of property by police, imprisonment and torture on terrorism charges.

    I hold a terror that I will die in the hands of a military / police force, also.  And, that there is nothing I can do to affect this.  Powerlessness.

    For me (race = white), it is not a race issue, though I do understand that for several minority races it is an order of magnitude worse than I experience.   It is about powerlessness in the face of an uncaring, abusive and unjust system.  (Police, prosecutors, the FBI, banking laws, laws that crush small business, medical research and laws based on profit motive, wars based on fabricated narratives, etc.)  Lying. Lying. Lying.

    My personal action choices seem to be:

    1)  I can withdraw from the system.  Or,

    2)  Burn the system down.

    3)  Hunker down and hide (protecting myself and family), secretly hoping the the system is not burnt down and will be there to serve me in the future.

    When the pain, terror and rage are big enough, we become willing to kill and die to destroy what threatens us.  Unfortunately, this is the whole system.  The rules have been captured and tweaked for the advantage of the few.

    If the system is burnt down, there will not be the food, water, electricity, public safety and many of services that I depend on.   Lots of people will die.  I will be at risk also.

    So, am I really ready to burn it down yet?

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 6:54am

    cindyb

    cindyb

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2010

    Posts: 41

    8

    4th Option?

    Desperate people who feel they have nothing to lose become dangerous.

    SandPuppy I hear you.  I've made the same list. My knee jerk response to your post was I've already done #1! But then I realized that, at this point, my social security and alimony checks still arrive!

    I think the system is burning itself down. And it had to. There is no easy way of "transition" as much as many of us want it. Will some of us not survive this? Unfortunately, yes. And that prompts the question for me: what is my part? What am I called upon to do?

    I am thinking creating "islands of sanity" or "remnant pods" could be a 4th option? Actually, at this point, it may be our only option...

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 7:40am

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    1

    New Robert Kennedy Jr. Interview

    Definitely worthwhile!

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 8:19am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 89

    11

    @sand puppy

    sand puppy,

    Your post sums up exactly how I feel.

    I spend a lot of time strategizing on how to handle what is going on now - as well as what is coming.

    Invariably, I am taken back to the conclusion that a massive "storm" is unfolding and I am going to be caught up in it - one way or another. I (and a lot of other people) are going to take major hits.

    We can prepare all we want. We might be able to mitigate the pain but we won't be able to stop it.  And, depending on how it plays out, individuals might not be able to even mitigate the pain - no matter who they are nor how well they have prepared. They might just find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. There is simply no way to prepare for that. These are just the sad facts facing us all.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 8:23am

    #14

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    25

    Increasing the reach of a video post

    Angi (and everyone),

    Often times we find a video that articulates our viewpoint very well and are tempted to just post it without comment.

    You have to know that most of such video links will never be looked at by most people.  It concerns the time/payoff ratio for the prospective viewer.

    When you put up a video link, I would recommend several explanatory comments.

    1.  Who is talking

    2. What is the point you are trying to make?  (Don' make us watch 30 - 60 minutes of video to try to guess what you are trying to say!!)

    3.  What specific sub-group at PP would be interested in this video.

    4.  Summarize the main points and issues.  Special bonus if you put in specific minute markers to point to the specific issue you want us to hear?

    This is not a criticism, just trying to help people with something to say say it effectively.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 8:28am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    V

    That movie is one of my all time favorites.

    The scene where V imprisons Evie and her awakening and baptism is one of the greatest scenes in movie history.

    It is one of the few movies I have bought. Time to watch again.

    Thanks for the reminder

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 8:44am

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    3

    Posting Video Links

    Sand_puppy - Agreed with a couple exceptions. My assumptions in making the post is /was that the PP community is a mostly aware & educated group and I would anticipate that most people know that R. Kennedy Jr. is a major voice of reason and education regarding: Vaccines in general, Bill Gates and his vaccine mandate, Big Pharma and political power, etc. Dark Journalist is an alternative media personality who likes to delve deeply into issues that he feels are especially important to bring to the attention of the public. I posted it because it might otherwise fly under the radar of those who are not able to take the time to seek out credible alternative voices to be found online, that are sincerely trying to get good information disseminated to a wide audience. Angi

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 10:00am

    #17
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    4

    Not just your SS is gone

    If things go down too far, there will be about 400 nuclear reactors around the world that won't be taken care of. You know how that goes.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 10:51am

    #18
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    11

    Police officer deliberatly inciting?

    I don't know if this has been seen elsewhere. The article discusses (speculation?) that the umbrella man is a police officer who has been involved in several incidents to incite responses. I do not know what to think from afar, but it certainly gives me yet more reason to mistrust the 'managers'.

    Police Deny Any Connection to Mysterious Minneapolis “Umbrella Man” Saboteur

     

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 11:09am

    #19

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 408

    21

    Mark_BC said:

    Anyone else watching the Spacex launch live and laughing at the mass social denial? What an utter waste of resources, in terms of both physical resources and human attention, in a hopelessly futile attempt to travel to and colonise the Moon and Mars, with no identifiable benefit other than to fill the egos of some ultra rich entrepreneurs and to satisfy the science fiction fantasies of the public. Well, that's what movies are for, we don't actually have to put in the energy to try to go there.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 11:26am

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 250

    7

    Can't change the system from the inside

    My personal action choices seem to be: 1)  I can withdraw from the system.  Or, 2)  Burn the system down. 3)  Hunker down and hide (protecting myself and family), secretly hoping the the system is not burnt down and will be there to serve me in the future.

    I don't view it that way at all. I see a clear 4th option, and one that I've been using for as long as I remember:

    1) Accept reality: life, law, and human interpersonal experience will always be unfair, especially in our modern agnostic civilization (an in any democracy as people loot the treasury!). Full stop. This is a feature, not a bug, of any society that is both multicultural and not explicitly moralistic. That's us. Get used to it. It will outlast you.

    2) Never bang on the table at said unfairness. That's like the stupid monkey in the video! Rather, treat any human-generated events just like any natural phenomena, say like the rain. Sure mother nature is not fair. But it is often predictable! So, never curse at the rain, it's a waste of time. Rather, watch the weather and curse at yourself if you forget to wear a raincoat. I've prospered during many unfair situations against me, and plan to continue doing so.

    An older book exploring this idea is Juggernaut.

    2.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 11:50am

    #21

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    13

    Claire Wolf said

    “America is at that awkward stage where it’s too late to work through the system, but too early to shoot the [email protected]” 🤷🏻‍♂️

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 12:19pm

    loj-ikul

    loj-ikul

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 03 2020

    Posts: 55

    8

    Suspicious Man Breaks Windows at Autozone

    This is a video of the man mentioned in westcoastjan's post. The guy comes out of no where , calmly smashes the windows with a hammer and leaves. He is confronted by the person taking the video and tries to hit him. There needs to be an investigation on this person as this looks planned to incite looting, not a heat of the moment action.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vurPRZbLvc&feature=emb_logo

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 12:29pm

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 179

    2

    V for Vendetta

    Totally a great movie.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 12:44pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    3

    Too early

    When I was growing up my mom had all the clocks set 10 minutes fast. We were never late for anything.

    My experience has shown it is better to be early than late.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 12:55pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    5

    Agent Provocateurs

    This has been going on for a very long time. In the 60's it would happen at civil rights and anti war demonstrations.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 2:06pm

    #26
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 120

    11

    Chris Said It

    "All of the systems that govern the sharing of resources among humans – political, economic and especially financial – are designed to concentrate, not share, wealth."

    The system is oriented around concentration and not distribution of resources. It's baked into the way our money system works. Create money out of nothing as debt and charge interest. That's it. That's what allows the vast inequality we see today and demands that things continue in this direction exponentially. To all of our peril! As aquifers are depleted, insects disappear, topsoil is eroded, etc...

    So wherever we *think* we are safe because of the privilege we have (whiteness, masculinity/machismo, money in the bank, not being a front-line worker, etc...), those privileges no longer actually keep us safe because the system itself has put us all in peril. We are now only as safe from this virus as the homeless guy is on the corner. As long as he is at risk, so are we.

    And when it comes to race relations in the US, the same is true for the relationship between people of color and white people. We (white people) certainly have a "free pass" on many things that people of color do not and we often don't realize it. At least until the rules change. It was fine in the eyes of many people to restrict the movements of immigrants at the southern border. But as soon as that line moved to our own doorstep, suddenly we have protests. But that's the point, the rules can change in an instant. Those lines can and will continue to move.

    So where you once thought you were safe, suddenly you find you are not. And while it may seem like a stretch to think that as it goes for a black man with a white knee in his neck, so it may also go for the rest of us. We are only as safe as our most vulnerable neighbor. It is actually in all of our interests to stand together, as best we can, from whatever position we have in society, to actually say in no uncertain terms that this is not working, for any of us. There must be another way. The message is louder if it is coming from everywhere, not just those on the "bottom."

    So while I can completely understand the three approaches proposed above by sand_puppy, which in my mind correlate to fight, flight, or freeze, I also see an opening to pivot in the direction that may not be immediately obvious: to band together, across common divides, to create another kind of system. Which actually distributes resources instead of consolidates them. If we wanted to do that, how would we start?

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 2:37pm

    #27
    cicerone

    cicerone

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2019

    Posts: 26

    11

    What steps I'm taking

    I live in San Mateo County south of San Francisco. In light of events, these are the steps I'm taking:

    - Avoid "symbolic" protest spots like downtown Oakland, San Jose and San Francisco, police stations and other civic buildings.
    - In addition, take surface streets if possible instead of freeways, which protestors have targeted.
    - In general, avoid the East Bay.
    - Accelerate my ongoing project to beef up home security.
    - Strengthen relations with my neighbors, family and friends. This is key.
    - Be The Gray Man, both offline and online. Dress modestly when I go out. Don't post about my exact location, family, preps, etc.
    - Remember my working class roots and whose side I'm on, ultimately.
    - Plant the seed in my (out of state) relatives' mind that I just might come to visit them for a spell.
    - Keep our passports up to date. Accelerate my ongoing project to get EU citizenship via ancestry.
    - Consider getting a gun.
    - Ignore friends and family who are in a filter bubble and might call me crazy for taking the steps above to protect my family.

    It's a Fourth Turning state of mind as much as a list of preps...

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 3:41pm

    #28

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    12

    3 years late and a dollar short

    Thank you for sharing you responses cicerone.  Several facebook friends are discussing this too.

    But I must comment on one important one:

    -Consider getting a gun.

    I must be blunt here:  you are already a year or two or three late on this one.

    The purchase takes time.

    There is a waiting period.  You must buy a booklet, take a safety test, take an approved NRA course, pass a background check that depends on an operating internet and central computer system.  Payment will be with credit/debit card which also depends on intact system.  Give yourself a full month to make a first purchase.

    You will need extra magazines.  Oops, you store doesn't have additional magazine for the model you bought.  They must be ordered on line.  And they are backordered.  These will be a few more weeks.

    You will need extra ammo.  Lots of ammo.  Both for practice and for defense.  This requires ID, background check in CA (unless this just changed).  Online suppliers will not ship to CA (last I checked).

    You will need a holster.  Order is placed.  Wait a week.  The one you bought first doesn't fit well.  It doesn't hold the weapon securely.  It is too bulky.  You order  another one.  Wait another week.  It holds the weapon away from your waist too far and can't be worn outdoors.  You do more online research, call friends.  About the 4th or 5th one you order seems pretty good.  But your belt has too much give and it sags.  More research.  Another few weeks.   Then summer happens and you are dressing lightly and you can use it at all.  Different seasons require different carry arrangements.    And different clothing.  Dark prints cover better than solid colors and light colors are really bad.  And they need to be big.

    You get an inside the waistband holster but it is horribly uncomfortable after a few hours.  They never told me about the discomfort!  You have to try a different one.  You find an Alien Gear Tuck or a Crossbreed Tuck.   But now you must get new pants that are 2 inches bigger in the waist.  Another trip to the store.

    Your hands (and mind) must learn to touch and hold the weapon.  Give a basketball to a child and he is still not a basketball player.  He can't dribble, pass, shoot, run and pass.  This takes TIME.  Your soul has to make peace with the firearm.  It must become a friend and loved tool.  This takes months and years.  It is like buying a pet rattlesnake.  Perhaps it becomes a friend after time, but it will bite you and kill you early on.

    Your family must adjust.  "I refuse to allow that evil device in my home!  It has only one purpose and that is to harm another human being!  If you have that you are no better than any murderer!"  "Don't you dare come near me with that vile thing on your belt!"  (Yes, this is from my own direct experience.)

    You must come to know your shooting range.  200 rounds over 45 minutes to an hour.  Repeat 20-30 times over the first 2-3 years.   2 shots quickly to the chest.  Slow single aimed shots to the head. One shot to each shoulder and hip -- shooting around body armor.  Now, quickly.

    Then the dry practice drills done in your family room after the kids have gone to bed.  Slowly and carefully you lift your shirt, place your hand on the grip precisely, draw, rotate forward, press outward towards the target, join with the support hand and push the weapon onto your line of sight while keeping the eyes on the target.  Then shift focus to the front sight and press the trigger without wavering the weapon.  Then you move to moderate speed repeating the same precise movement.  Then faster.

    You get a laser ammo and put it in your weapon so that a 1 second burst of light shows where the "bullet" would have hit in your dry practice.

    Oh.  And your shooting range will not allow you to shoot from a holster until you have taken their class on that and been "certified."  that class won't be till next month and is only on Wednesday evenings.

    And your state will not give you a concealed carry permit "for your safety."  If you carry, you are a criminal.  So you weigh your risk of being attacked with the risk of arrest.

    Mostly though, ones psychology must shift.  The role of protector, warrior and killer may not be familiar and cause unease.  The firearm is a tool to kill.

    It takes several years and you are already very very late!

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 4:45pm

    #29

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 616

    7

    We've...

    To back up what Sand_puppy is saying, we've been trying to get used to what it feels like to have our 9mms on us (I, a Glock17, her a Sig-Sauer compact) and after two months it still feels somewhat alien. It didn't help that we couldn't visit the range for two months, and while we have a good amount of ammo, we had to spend nearly a grand just to get to that point...and it still doesn't feel like enough. I'll say that it's worth starting the process though; it might be too late, it might not be. However, if you push it off it definitely will be. Start buying firearms now, and get as far into the process of familiarity as possible. That being said, have some other weaponry on-hand. It's not much, but a hammer wielded by an angry person is better than nothing. We have things everywhere that we know we could use to strike, stab, pierce, or slash if need be.

     

    Most importantly, start thinking about what defense of you and your home might entail. What it might take, mentally and physically? We, for instance, installed chains over our doors. Will they hold someone out forever? Hell no, but if they buy us 30 seconds of reaction time, it's worth it. We also have one "bigger gun" on every floor and have acclimated our kids to their presence: the AR-10 is in the basement, the Mossberg shotgun on the main floor, and the CZ Scorpion and .22 scoped rifle is on the third.

    For reference, my wife and I abhor guns. They go against everything we want the world to be...but we are idealists who are not detached from reality, so we recognize them as necessary tools. Tools we need to become at least modestly proficient in using.

     

    May the odds ever be in your favor.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 5:00pm

    cicerone

    cicerone

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2019

    Posts: 26

    3

    Everyone hangs up on the gun part

    @sand_puppy

    Point well taken. It's a blind spot that I've avoided for years and it may well be too late for me, especially here in CA.

    However, I would assert that 99% of this is prevention and not about guns. "Ferfal" is a well known Argentine survivalist who is very pro-gun. But most of his advice comes down to "avoid trouble" and "live where you probably will never need a gun." That rings true to me. That's why he left Argentina for Europe.

    And as someone who has lived in high crime neighborhoods (e.g. MacArthur Park, Los Angeles), I can attest that spotting trouble and/or defusing a potentially violent confrontation is also a skill that comes with experience. I wouldn't trade that experience for a gun and firearms training, although for sure I'd love to have both.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 5:23pm

    #31

    CleanEnergyFan

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 29 2012

    Posts: 108

    3

    How to rely on Police “Protection” when cities are bankrupt from past Police and Firefighter Pension Obligations

    I would love to see our media and politicians address the question that was first raised in Chris’ video.  We have an enormous overabundance of these services now, particularly in the big cities, and the public service city unions in concert with city officials who have caved to union demands have created an unsustainable debt burden that is bankrupting city finances.  What happens in a real downturn when we might actually need that level of police presence and it isn’t available (yet the past wasted debt expenditure still remains)?  It continually irks me that this is such an obvious problem yet NEVER gets discussed (except at a PP seminar).  Why are we never allowed to vote on these issues?

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 6:18pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    3

    Police Presence

    You want to know what it is like not to have police presence? Research New Orleans during Katrina.

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 6:46pm

    #33
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    7

    This article resonated well and provides much food for thought in light of riots etc

    From 9/11 to COVID-19: The United State[s] of Emergency

    An excerpt:

    Cultivate spirituality, reject materialism and put people first. When the things that matter most have been subordinated to materialism, we have lost our moral compass. We must change our values to reflect something more meaningful than technology, materialism and politics. Standing at the pulpit of the Riverside Church in New York City in April 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. urged his listeners:

    [W]e as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a “thing-oriented” society to a “person-oriented” society. When machines and computers, profit motive and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.

    Pitch in and do your part to make the world a better place. Don’t rely on someone else to do the heavy lifting for you. Don’t wait around for someone else to fix what ails you, your community or nation. As Mahatma Gandhi urged: “Be the change you wish to see in the world.”

    Stop waiting for political saviors to fix what is wrong with this country. Stop waiting for some political savior to swoop in and fix all that’s wrong with this country. Stop allowing yourselves to be drawn into divisive party politics. Stop thinking of yourselves as members of a particular political party, as opposed to citizens of the United States. Most of all, stop looking away from the injustices and cruelties and endless acts of tyranny that have become hallmarks of American police state. Be vigilant and do your part to recalibrate the balance of power in favor of “we the people.”

    There are other gems. This might be worth sharing with those in one's circle deemed amenable to opening their eyes to what is going on. I feel it is so hopeless sometimes to get people to listen but we have to keep trying. There is too much at stake...

    Jan

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 7:31pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    6

    New RFK Interview

    Angi, Thanks for posting this interview.   I was  under the impression Gates was the #2 biggest donor to the WHO, turns out he's the #1 donor to the WHO.  Gates' influence has steered the WHO from programs like clean water, sanitation, and better nutrition to Vaccines, Vaccines, and more Vaccines.

    During this interview, RFK confirms some of the "vaccine" programs sponsored by Gates and/or the WHO have actually been sterilization programs conducted in some African countries.    For a long time, I thought that info was fake news.

    Then there's the blackmail, 'hey if you don't keep this vaccine program we'll pull your  HIV assistance.'

    BTW, Gates is one those fortunate few who's wealth has grown by the billions since this lock down.   Our financial system is  creating modern day Caesars!

     

     

     

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 7:43pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    6

    The Thin Blue Line

    There is a very thin line between civil society and anarchy.  A brave police officer posted a video that went viral, G. Anderson from Seattle, WA.  He urged his fellow LEO's to protect people's constitutional rights and NOT arrest people for doing nails at home, or opening a hair  salon or taking the kids to the  playground - no matter what your orders are!

    Within a day, the video had been seen by  millions of people and he was told if he did not take down the video, then he would be fired.  Can't disobey a direct order from the Governor!

    He did not take down the video.

    He also gives a prescient warning about the American people.  He called the public a sleeping giant that you don't want to wake up.   He correctly claimed that LEO authority is a facade that boils down to a gun and a badge, both of which can be taken away in less than 10 minutes.

    When I saw the Fox News team in front of the White House get chased off by an angry mob, and no police came to the rescue, and those news guys were very clearly frightened, I became worried.   What happens when those LEO's walk off the job?

    I am SO glad I do not live in a city right now.

    Here's the link, it's worth a watch:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZgQfg27Ck

     

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 8:35pm

    loj-ikul

    loj-ikul

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 03 2020

    Posts: 55

    7

    Other self defense options in case of the 1%

    As sand_puppy mentioned it is very late in respect to current events to purchase a firearm. There are other options that might be legal in California and they are easy purchases.

    A cross bow.

    https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/centerpoint-sniper-elite-crossbow-set#repChildCatSku=114752809

    Pepper spray

    https://bestreviews.com/best-pepper-sprays

     

    Taser or stun gun.

    https://buy.taser.com/products/taser-pulse-plus

     

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  • Sat, May 30, 2020 - 9:46pm

    #37

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    16

    Innovation and Resilience

    Thought this was a great idea, lol.

    Lawn care joins the revolution!

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 12:29am

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    3

    Blackpowder.....

    Somewhere around 650,000 men perished in the U.S. Civil War.  Mostly by muzzle-loaded blackpowder arms.  Still avialable, still deadly, no license required (I'm pretty sure.  Training, still most definately required...).  I remember learning that an accomplished soldier could reload his  musket/rifle in a matter of seconds...not an AR-15, but probably better than nothing.  Then you've got your 80% AR-15 options....I'd prefer to stand with Gandhi and MLK as long as possible, however.....Aloha, Steve.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 1:16am

    #39
    Galene77

    Galene77

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 24

    3

    Planned uncreative destruction....

    Try not to get blindsided by DemoRat v RePugnatan curtain swishing PlayStation distractions, it’s a sham.

    These younger primates triggered to go jigging of an evening screeching off nightly are being played for chumps here.

    Vid footage already has leaked out of miltel whitemen all in black hammering in shop windows, and for sure other operatives dressed as rioters seamlessly blend in to whip up the snowflake hysteria:

    This is SHOWTIME for sure, those really in charge know the social media feeds will fan the flames.

    The BIGGER question as JOKER mode plays forward is WHO really benefits?

    Evolving a cultural shift to save human freedoms is very difficult, and requires an enormous amount of time and patience, the 99% are out of that.

    What I’m seeing leads me to think this is a 1% planned phase 2 demolition of the US of A. The tragedy is of course, those kicking off are too dumb to see it.

    To date, all the revolutions have failed because they never change the fundamental system, they all ignore the inherent nature of social anthropology.

    It’s at best the equivalent of repainting the woodwork exterior of the house while ignoring the serious subsidence and internal structural problems.

     

    H A P P Y  S U N D A Y S

     

    PS: Big thaks Chris & Adam for the Lancet shilling exposé

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 6:56am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 89

    1

    V for Vendetta

    After reading you post, I watched it again last night. Really good movie. I see the parallels.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 8:35am

    #41
    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 89

    11

    HCQ with zinc

    The article posted below discusses an issue that has really been puzzling me.

    Why is the media (as well as other organizations) marginalizing HCQ with zinc - when: 1) there  is strong anecdotal evidence that it works very well when administered early and,  2) no double blind tests have been run which might confirm its effectiveness?

    Chris and Adam have discussed this issue in podcasts. The whole thing is a mystery to me. The use of HCQ with zinc has been successful in China, India, Costa Rica and other places. It has been used safely for decades in treating other conditions. But now it is being declared dangerous and tests of the drug have been halted in the West.

    What is going on here?

    Is this marginalization of HCQ grounded in the profit motive of pushing a patentable new drug? Have Western institutions become that corrupt? Is it sheer incompetence? Has the state of society in the West really dropped to such a level of pure ineptitude?

    I don't know what to make of it.

    Long ago, in the 1960's I was strongly attached to the counterculture. I was very critical of what we then called "the Establishment." But, even then, I did not believe that the "news" was rigged. I knew people who alleged that the media was rigged, but I did not believe it myself.

    Now, at almost 70 years of age, I have come to the conclusion that the news is most definitely rigged. It is simply beyond dispute as far as I am concerned. But even now - after a long lifetime of seeing one institutional verity after another destroyed - I have a hard time coming to terms with what is going on right now.

    Hundreds of thousands of people are dying. But, even so much as, the testing of HCQ with zinc is being deliberately (or through pure incompetence) marginalized.

    If this is so, and it is, then it seems that Western culture is rotten to the core.

    What other conclusion could I come to?

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/malaria-drug-and-zinc-the-missing-link/

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 8:42am

    #42

    dcm

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 14 2009

    Posts: 133

    2

    Human “Nature”

    An oxymoron really. At so many levels. Sometimes humans and nature don’t mix so well. We think we’re something more but often prove we’re something less. I can’t hear that phrase without thinking about it’s curious cousin- “faith.”  Is faith human nature or something greater? Is it an inevitable tool to deal with human nature or even manipulate it? Not all “faiths” but many carry so many oxymorons themselves - accept even ignore the limitations and profound unfairness of this “physical world” and focus on the afterlife vs let’s care for the collective good, the immediate physical reality and the truly unfortunate. In so many ways this site is an exploration of the many faces of faith. Like many of us, Chris and Adam have a profound “faith” in human beings. The success of their message and this site is a testament to that.  Yet in so many ways they demonstrate how blind faith in so many things and so many institutions can lead to nothing but self destruction. Chris uses religious terminology all the time calling out the hypocrisies of one “high priest” or another. As Chris laments, these protests, this anger, even the senseless destruction are far more than just another police killing. As the structural collapse accelerates, human nature will dictate much of what we see won’t it? The protected and privileged will take desperate, naked, and even, ultimately, self destructive action.  But so will the rest of human nature and the problem is, that’s the collective mass - a big ball that once it gets rolling will be hard to stop and maybe worse, hard to direct.  So, as expected, the politician and the newscaster criticize and condemn the “pointless” and “self destructive” actions of the young. It’s desperate, it’s naked, and yes it’s self destructive. But do they realize or do they simply ignore the fact that the two worlds are “desperately” intertwined and any attempt at moral judgement on one side while ignoring the cause in the other only makes it worse - much much worse

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 9:24am

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 113

    1

    I would respectfully point out...

    That the scary thing is, that a significant portion of the ““science”” is rigged.

    NOW THAT’S SCARY....!

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 9:37am

    #44
    wlhaught

    wlhaught

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 31 2020

    Posts: 2

    3

    The cucumber

    What  was not mentioned is that it is worse than getting a cucumber shoved down our throats -- it is being shoved up our backsides.  In the case of most Americans this is quite easy since they have their heads in the sand and consequently their backsides easily accessible, that is, up in the air.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 9:50am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    Alt weapons

    A flare gun. Lots of cruisers don't want the hassle of declaring weapons everytime they enter a port. So they have lots of flare guns on board.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 10:38am

    #46

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    1

    Altweapons: swords and bows-and-arrows edition

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/horror-dallas-business-owner-tries-defend-shop-sword-looters-leftists-stone-kick-beat-skateboard-not-moving/

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/animals-man-caught-traffic-pulls-bow-arrow-car-leftist-mob-pummels-beats-head-skateboards-flip-carraight/

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 10:41am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    0

    Wihaught, besides the graphic imagery...

    what specifically is the point of your post?

    BTW, Welcome to PeakProsperity.com

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 10:54am

    #48
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    CityPrepping, "Why Martial Law is About to Happen"

    Chris of CityPrepping posted this video today in light of the recent protests and other events, "Why Martial Law is About to Happen". (5/31/20)

    Chris provides a non-partisan analysis of current events and how they may lead to Martial Law in the US, whether or not formally declared. At about the 11-minute mark in this brief video, he provides several tips on how to maintain you and your loved ones' safety and security if things "spiral out of control."

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 10:54am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    1

    Black Powder Weapons Are Quite Lethal...

    An 1863 Springfield, 3 Band, rifle...the weapon issued to most Union infantry...has the same accuracy as a 30.06 Springfield rifle, made in 1942...at a 100 yards.  A trained rifleman could load and fire this weapon 3 times a minute.  However, they could not AIM the rifle very well, they just pointed it in the general direction of the enemy formation, as after the first two or three rounds...you couldn't SEE the enemy due to the smoke of from hundreds of rifles around them.

    Most battles were fought in a smoke fog, which prevented men from seeing the enemy, but also, from seeing their fellow soldiers only a few feet away.   After the first few volleys, one just loaded and fired as fast as one could, sticking the ram rod into the ground in front of them, or holding it in their left hand, as they shot, until they were ordered to stop firing.  One could see two or three soldiers in the ranks around one, but the smoke prevented men from knowing how badly their Regiment had suffered, until the smoke cleared..or they marched out of it.

    One could not even tell if the rifle they were shooting was actually firing or not in the passion of the battle.  Hundreds of rifles were found which had been loaded and loaded, even though its nipple was clogged and the rifle would not fire when the percussion cap was fired.  Eventually, the soldier found he could not fit another round into the weapon, realized what he had done...and tossed the useless rifle to the ground..so he could snatch up another one from a nearby fallen man.

    If you have a black powder .44 Remington pistol, all you need are a large supply of tiny percussion caps.  One can always make black powder, and melt lead, or zinc.  Heck, I even used the right sized pebbles and fired the thing.  Cleaned them with just soap and water and greased them with Crisco.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 12:08pm

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 408

    9

    Mark_BC said:

    I don't view it that way at all. I see a clear 4th option, and one that I've been using for as long as I remember:

    1) Accept reality: life, law, and human interpersonal experience will always be unfair, especially in our modern agnostic civilization (an in any democracy as people loot the treasury!). Full stop. This is a feature, not a bug, of any society that is both multicultural and not explicitly moralistic. That's us. Get used to it. It will outlast you.

    2) Never bang on the table at said unfairness. That's like the stupid monkey in the video! Rather, treat any human-generated events just like any natural phenomena, say like the rain. Sure mother nature is not fair. But it is often predictable! So, never curse at the rain, it's a waste of time. Rather, watch the weather and curse at yourself if you forget to wear a raincoat. I've prospered during many unfair situations against me, and plan to continue doing so.

    I see where you are coming from but the world never got better from people sitting back and accepting their lot in life. Society only advances for the better from people identifying inequity and injustice and seeing that there is a better way. And then putting their own safety and lives on the line to make it happen.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 1:15pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    MIke

    What you are missing is Bill Gates. Watch the James Corbett videos I posted. Things will become crystal clear

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 2:20pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    8

    Anarchy

    Anarchy does not mean out of control, it means out of THEIR control. So I have to take issue with your statement about "civil society" and anarchy.

    The following might serve as a working definition and a starting point for investigation

    "Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that rejects all involuntary, coercive forms of hierarchy. It radically calls for the abolition of the state which it holds to be undesirable, unnecessary and harmful. ... Revolutionary tactics aim to bring down authority and state, and have taken a violent turn in the past."

    Using this definition King George would have considered Jefferson etal to be anarchists.

    I happen to be an anarchist and reject the state's authority to do things like ; make HCQ illegal, punish doctors for prescribing such, killing people in custody, a president murdering his own citizens, the government telling people they can't go to church (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/supreme-court-churches-coronavirus.html), the government spying on its own citizens, the government forcing people to be vaccinated,  etc. etc. etc. I would propose to you that this particular US government bears little resemblance to the government in 1789. The Federal code alone takes up over 22 ft. of shelf space. Add the assorted federal regulations and tax code and you will find a vastly different situation in regards to personal liberty. This scenario has not even gotten to state and local laws and regulations. There are people in jail today who would not have been in jail less than 100 years ago for victimless crimes. Every law and regulation only limits individual liberty.

    I would suggest that people are civil because they are civil, and not because some law forces them to do so. I am assuming you don't go out and steal and murder because it is against the law. I assume you do that because you have a well oiled moral or ethical compass. I am an anarchist and I am probably the most peaceful person in my neighborhood.

    In light of Howard Zinn's "People's History" and the news I would suggest society at large is not nor has it been civil.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 2:25pm

    dreinmund

    dreinmund

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2011

    Posts: 56

    7

    dreinmund said:

    I have read that wasp sprays are effective in lieu of pepper sprays. Advantage of wasp sprays: long range - 20ft+

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 2:43pm

    #54

    mememonkey

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 140

    21

    Crime and Punishment

    The murder of George Floyd has certainty unleashed the madness of crowds and ignited  the smoldering frustrations and pent up rage of racial, economic and social tensions in this time of plague and cascading systems failures.

    I can’t help but reflect on the tragic, yet perfectly ironic symbolism that his crime and punishment represents.

    Accused of Counterfeiting  a $20 bill the full weight of the “law” Is brought to bear on his neck with swift and summary judgment and Execution of  sentence.

    Meanwhile at the Eccles  building, fresh off another trillion dollar counterfeiting print session, the Banksters are no doubt gauging the ‘confidence‘ of the “”markets”” prior to open and  weighing  the appropriate level of asset purchases with those  freshly counterfeited dollars that will be adequate to mollify worried investors as the US literally burns.

    A counterfeiting and theft operation orders of magnitude greater with countless victims.   An Ongoing racket lasting decades  with no arrests,  trials  or justice, or summary  executions for that matter.

    As the various underclasses riot and loot Inner city stores making off with sneakers and other cheap shit manufactured off shore, our corporate overlords (who off-shored those manufacturing jobs) the Wall Street Banksters, Special Interests and political insiders continue to  loot the treasury stealing directly from the people in what is perhaps their soon to be last  frantic feeding frenzy at the trough of freshly counterfeited money.

    This doesn’t end well.  In a just world it would end with a knee to the neck of the Fed, choking it to death on the sidewalk of America’s Mainstreet.

    I don’t think we’ll be that fortunate. I  think we''ll  get a digital Fed coin instead,  Administered by the technofascists currently managing correct think in our "Social" media feeds and disinformation matrix.  the digital dollar  is currently bouncing around committee waiting for the right 'crisis'  timing to be shepherded into law by the high integrity brain trust of Pelosi, Water's et al. on behalf of their owners.

    The riots to date are just a foreshadowing of what is coming.

    Keep in mind these rioters are well fed and in the case of the tragically hip and woke SJW brigades playing revolutionary, well heeled.

    Imagine the mood and action when the currency collapses, the food supply lines break, the stimulus stops and the welfare checks bounce.   When people are newly homeless and truly hungry.

    I think we we will get to experience first hand what it like to be under the boot of the military division of empire, an experience insouciant Americans  are more comfortable exporting.

    Welcome to Iraq, Libya, Palestine, Hondura’s  etc

    Don’t forgot to show your Vaccination papers before getting In the food line!

    Prepare accordingly

    mm

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 4:22pm

    #55
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    8

    More sobering info re protest infiltration and manipulation

    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2020/may/30/nothing-is-certain-but-death-taxes-and-police-infiltration-of-us-protests/

    ...This is important for all of us to be aware of, not just the people attending these protests. Any time we are told a protester threw this or rioters set fire that, we must take this information with a very large grain of salt, because we usually won’t be able to know it wasn’t an undercover cop acting as an agent provocateur to shape a narrative and justify more use of force to disperse the crowd. The idiot with the umbrella did it in a very ham-fisted and obvious way, and we can expect other police infiltrators to be more clever about it as well.

    This is not to say none of the anger we’ve seen exhibited at these protests is real and grassroots; people have a lot to be angry about, and surely much of the destruction we’re seeing is the organic result of way too many people being pushed way too far by a cruel and abusive system. It’s just to say that we should all be as skeptical as we would be when dealing with any other narratives we know powerful factions have a vested interest in manipulating, and not treat any claim about protester behavior as a certain fact.

    The powerful few are afraid of the many. Always have been, always will be. And there’s nothing they and their goon squad won’t do to try and rein in any group which poses a threat to their power if they can get away with it.

     

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 4:32pm

    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 266

    6

    Fight, flight, freeze etc. response

    Yaga man

    Some are beginning to react with a new realization (after recently coming to this PP blogsite) that just maybe it is time to do something about their own situation.   The conversation was (and is) a. should I fight?, b. flight? or c. freeze in position holed up until everything blows over.  This is in response to a discovery that the system concentrates wealth by its nature.

    In your reflections on Sandpuppy's post, your last 2 sentences in response to this were:

    "Which actually distributes resources instead of consolidates them. If we wanted to do that, how would we start?"

    The easy answer is always to appeal to higher authority to steal from others and makes for great arm chair keyboarding chit chat crapping on blog sites such as this.
    But the real answer is do it yourself wealth creation at the local community level, wherein good character is rewarded, the needy who do their best get what is needed etc. automatically.  Small resilient communities dont formally ask these questions and dont waste valuable time chit chat crapping because the gardens need tending, the electrical systems need tending, the bicycles and motorbikes need maintenance etc.

    Re: your "how would we start?" query
    Many of us here at PP already started years ago by pursuing self resilience at the community level.  Wasting time on chit chat crapping about making or changing formal systems of redistribution may be fun or relaxing I suppose, but diverts time away from local and individual production of wealth, which is the answer to your question.

    Small resilient community development.  When Rome collapsed, the best place to be was in a monastery community in Ireland or other remote place (rural Massachusetts? Alaska?  South Pacific?) where the best of the past could be preserved and wealth created and consumed locally.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 5:12pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    2

    wasp spray

    Just some thoughts, as self-defense is not my area of expertise.  Wasp spray may or may not be an effective defense tool.  There could also be legal issues.  But, as is said: Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.  Web-search it.  OC or bear spray- better.  We're talking about potential life-threatening scenarios here.  Probably being faced with multiple experienced assailants.  You're gonna stand there, waiting for them to get in your zone (see Tueller, or 21' rule), with a spray can that you hope works?  It's past time to get serious.  Don't delude yourself.  You and your family deserve better than wasp spray.  "Our own" Tom- thc0566- has expounded at length here on defense topics- check them out.  Interesting times.....Aloha, Steve

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 5:51pm

    #58
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    There goes the first amendment

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/supreme-court-churches-coronavirus.html

    I posted this in the body of a post above but i think it needs to be highlighted.

    First we can start with the Preamble

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

    Does anybody believe that is true?

    What is the 1st Amendment in simple terms?
    First Amendment. The First Amendment protects several basic freedoms in the United States including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to assemble, and the right to petition the government. It was part of the Bill of Rights that was added to the Constitution on December 15, 1791.
    So all of the rights in the constitution are inalienable EXCEPT when there is a pandemic. I know that is in the constitution somewhere. A minister and his congregation wish to gather and worship the god of their choice regardless of what is happening in society at large, a right guaranteed in the constitution but the Supreme Court says no. They are a higher authority than not only the people who wrote the constitution but now they are higher than god.
    A government functioning under a legal system of convenience is not a government of the rule of law and certainly not of the people , by the people and for the people.
    I think it is up to every person of faith to stand up and say enough is enough,

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 6:34pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    1

    Love it, laughing out loud

    Thanks Dtrammel for posting that clever push back!  Twitter is doing a bang up job taking down posts of the riots.  I really dislike twitter. Anyway, the post was taken down,  but I got the message. What a great way to deal with tear gas!!!

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 6:37pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    2

    Cops infiltrate all the time

    Yes, WestcoastJan,  they do it all the time.  I saw some terrible examples of LEO's coming on strong and as the aggressors, sometimes like blitzing someone.  I saw several of these blitzing attacks against female protesters, who went flying when shoved at running force and in a surprise attack.

    Twitter disabled those videos too.

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 6:56pm

    #61
    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 782

    4

    The Bottom Line

    The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

    The B&M Gates Foundation

    The BM Gates Foundation

    The Bowel Movement Gates Foundation

    The Sphincters Foundation

    The Pair of Asses [trying to control the world]

    (After all, what exactly is a bowel movement gate? And, what do we call the foundation for that unholy halo?)

    Grover

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 7:48pm

    #62

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5905

    8

    Rubbing Our Faces In The Inequity

    40+ million Americans laid off within the past 9 weeks.

    Q2 GDP now estimated to be down -50%.

    Half of all small businesses in America don't expect to survive the year.

    Violent riots break out of control across the US this weekend.

    And yet the market has simply powered higher and higher, making the 10% who own 84% of financial assets richer as the rest of the public falls into despair.

    Note that tonight's futures are green. A nation afire and at war with itself, suffering from historic twin health and economic crises, and yet the stock market, aka the "mood ring for the rich", is smugly chipper -- sending the signal "there's no public tragedy great enough worth interrupting our plunder of the system for our self-benefit"

    (I find it very telling that the headline below was invalided within moments of posting):

     

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 7:49pm

    #63
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    10

    Not sure what to say anymore... not good!

    George Floyd Protests: Police Escalating Violence Across America

    A common police tactic in protest situations is to escalate the violence themselves, hoping demonstrators will respond in kind, giving them an excuse to use even more excessive force. At the Occupy Wall Street protests in 2011, police intentionally verbally, physically and sexually assaulted the smallest, oldest and weakest women in an attempt to provoke violent reactions, according to former New York Times journalist Chris Hedges.

    The tactic appears to be in operation across the country. Memphis police were caught singling out a woman from a crowd, shouting “get the girl in the grey hoodie” before swarming her. In Salt Lake City, police threw an elderly man with a cane to the ground. In Seattle, cops brutalized a protester, one officer leaning his knee on the man’s neck in exactly the same manner as Chauvin used to kill Floyd. In Houston, a mounted police officer trampled a female bystander looking the other way, as the horse advanced into a seemingly peaceful, passive crowd. In Minneapolis, researcher Tanya Kersson shared video footage of amped up police attacking her on her own property, firing at her and her house. Before doing so, an officer can be heard giving the order to “light ‘em up,” an expression used by the military when bombing the Middle East. Back in New York City, images emerged of police assaulting a young woman, Dounya Zayer, shouting that she was a “stupid fucking bitch,” before throwing her to the ground. Footage shows she was quickly backing up, attempting to avoid confrontation. Zayer ended up in the hospital due to her injuries. Cops in Erie, PA, were caught on camera kicking a young girl lying in the street in the face. The reason, according to protesters, she was lying in the street covering her face was that she had been hit with tear gas.

    ... Between 1998 and 2014 the value of military hardware given to U.S. police departments ballooned from $9.4 million to $796.8 million.

    ...Yet at the same time as budgets for police hardware have gone through the roof, funding for public hospitals has decreased, leading to a situation where police officers resemble robocop or Iron Man and doctors are told to wear garbage bags to protect themselves from a pandemic.

    Bold my emphasis. You tell me - Fourth Turning manifesting in real time, in living colour (?) Sure looks like it!

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 7:55pm

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 179

    1

    Wasp Spray

    Wash spray?  Oh please don't.  Sure if your life was in danger, but that stuff is considered poison for a reason.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 2:04am

    #65
    Klaatu

    Klaatu

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2018

    Posts: 22

    9

    Black Swans

    A whole flock of 'em.  All at once.

    Thanks to dtrammel and all here for helping me do my preps in Jan-Feb, before supplies ran out.  Elderberry and vitamins throughout March prepared me for what may have been a mild encounter in April with a low "inoculum", as Chris was discussing often around that time.  It was almost an exhilarating experience to forget the fear and get past five days of mild symptoms for one in the 70s age group.  Goddam lucky this didn't come along 10 years later, and now have better ideas how to be ready for other new viruses when I may be more vulnerable.

    I'll get antibody test when they're really ready, right now I'm enjoying the ambiguity of being in the mystery zone. 😉

    The economic question people need to ask is, Why are there billionaires? Really, WHY? I'm getting food parcels to several hundred hungry conflict refugee families for $8-10 each.  And I ain't no billionaire.  I must have missed the memo somewhere about Must Accumulate More.  Die with the most ETFs?

    And for the world, as we've hit the planetary boundaries, Are we going to ease the populations and consumption down, or let 7+ billion people starve to death?  Logically, to me, that's the course we're on, if not outright extinction.

    We've dropped the CO2 and cleared many skies, and this has to be showing us what we could accomplish under new living arrangements.  Otherwise, as Clint's Josey Wales said to the bounty hunter trying to cash in, "Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy."

    Coyotes are in some kind of conflict out back, gotta go check see...

    Again, thanks to all for contributing your wisdom so generously.  THIS is what the internet is/was supposed to be about, and, given the right setting, people will give their best.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 3:22am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 172

    2

    Re: Black Swans

    Hi Klaatu,

    Sorry that I’m a nerdistanic a*hole, but all these events do not qualify as Black Swans. A pandemic is improbable, but not deemed impossible, hence not a black swan.

    I think that prepping to a certain extent is highly rational behavior (as long as the “investment portfolio” truely convex). What does it say about the general populace and MSM, that considered preppers as “goofballs” uptill a few weeks ago?

    Calling events black swans makes it seem as if we couldn’t do anything. White swan events that we see now are bad enough, especially if we do not want to bear the costs of anti-fragile behavior.

    Other than that, I totally agree with you about the wisdom spread via PP.

    take care!

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 3:55am

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 120

    6

    Local Resiliency within an Extractive System

    Mots. I get it about local resiliency. Building local wealth that can sustain a local community through a crisis. Yet can't help but wonder how a local community can retain that wealth when it still exists in the context of a system designed to extract value from those that produce it and put it in the pockets of the .1%? Shouldn't we be, at the very least, demanding a return to sound money? Things to ponder while weeding the raised beds.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 5:31am

    Sonerous

    Sonerous

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 10 2019

    Posts: 22

    1

    RFK claims

    Is there evidence of these claims?

    1. that Gates is the major donor to WHO (given much uproar over Trump halting the USA donations as they are the largest donor...)
    2. that Gates Foundation has blackmailed WHO? How would that work, given that all WHO decisions are made by committees of representatives of the ~190 member countries? Is he claiming that all are being blackmailed?

    Gates FOundation is certainly big on vaccinations (among other things) and RFK is certainly against all vaccinations, so I can see why he doesn't like Gates Foundation.

    And Gates personally criticised Trump's handling of the pandemic, so he's not popular with some people. He's also apparently a common topic of the social media bots which foment anger and spread fake news. Much of which appears to be catching on and being repeated.

    Sigh. I really feel for you folks (Americans, and those in adjoining countries). So many difficult things to deal with all at once.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 6:35am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 639

    6

    Not seeing it Jan

    Everything I’m seeing says the rioters are dominating the poor behavior narrative and the tragedy is that, to a large extent, they are attacking people and businesses that are not responsible for any of the grievances they are supposedly rioting about.

    Additionally, unless they stop looting small businesses, I’m personally never going to consider their cause legitimate.

    Finally, the riot is focused poorly.  People misbehave, whites, African Americans, Asians. Individuals from every race misbehave.  Every event is not one entire race against another.

    Racism is the term applied to people who blame an entire race for the shortcomings of it’s least respectable members.

    I’d be more likely to support a national riot against the government or the banking system, than what’s happening, especially if no random looting was involved.

     

     

     

     

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 6:42am

    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 92

    5

    Mysterymet said:

    This situation started in MN and it really appears that the officer involved used excessive force and he will most likely do some serious jail time for it, as he should.  However, according to a study last year cops in the US are not blatantly racist. The media seems to keep pushing that “racist cops” narrative and I am suspicious as to why?  Could it be that we are being divided as a people to make us easier to control? The agent provocateurs going around turning protests into riots are quite interesting too. I like data and a bunch of what has been happening in this country lately doesn’t add up. What am I missing?

    https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/

     

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 6:52am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 180

    5

    Our situation did not start in MN!

    Wow, what are you missing?  Just spend some time studying the "Crash Course," available for free on this site.  It will give you some perspective.

    This situation did not start in MN.  It has been coming for years, even decades.  We are now in the Fourth Turning and you just can't put the milk back into the cow.  You may find the starting point to our situation in the ideal of perpetual growth for the sake of growth.  The three E's are key ... Economic policies, Environmental policies and Energy policies.  Grow, grow, grow. These three components of the overall system are so far out of balance, now.  Pain is everywhere.

    We have front row seats for viewing the turning.  Work on getting yourself resilient, get yourself out of the line of fire and sit back and watch.

    Start with the "Crash Course."  Really, watch the "Crash Course."  It's a bit out of date but the principles still apply.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 7:04am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 180

    16

    I guess the looters aren't in the club.

    From a tweet that I read...

    "I gotta be honest the worst looting I've ever seen take place happened a few weeks ago when corporations collected over 500 billion dollars in stimulus money while everyone else was left with a $1200 dollar check and having to decide if they pay for food or rent."

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 7:13am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 639

    7

    Yep

    Which is why I said I’d be more supportive of a riot against the government and bankers.  This riot, IMHO, is not targeting the worst bad guys.  I think it’s dividing us when we can’t afford it and wasting energy that could be better used elsewhere.

    The looters aren’t the biggest thieves in the US?  True, but they are thieves.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 7:31am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 180

    8

    People with nothing to lose, lose it.

    As Gerald Celente says, "People with nothing to lose, lose it."

    You don't see people with fat bank accounts and stock portfolios out there looting.

    I am not sanctioning what they are doing ... just trying to understand.

    It's about perspective.  Like the farmer who was castrating the bull with the two bricks when asked "doesn't that hurt?"  He responded, "you don't feel a thing as long as you keep your fingers from between the bricks."  No concern for the bull.  And what does that bull do when he is let back up ... run, charge, rage?

    Maybe there are some callous people with big portfolios who enjoy profiting along with the banksters at the expense of those who cannot.  Ah, the pensions!  And the swelling financial markets! Keep it coming!  People are struggling, if not starving.  Hospitals can't get supplies.  Our police look like armies, armed to the teeth with the latest and best weaponry.  Guess the wealth had to go somewhere.

    Nothing that a knee to the neck won't resolve ...

    Our ancestors used to cut the feet off of the slaves who tried too many times to escape their harsh conditions.  Who's side are we on this time?

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:29am

    #75
    Daddy-O McDadstein

    Daddy-O McDadstein

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 11 2020

    Posts: 31

    6

    Counterfeit vs Fiat--the IRONY!

    So, George Floyd was killed by a thug cop because he tried to pass off a phony bill at a convenience store. It was an alleged case of counterfeiting.

    But the Fed prints up trillions of dollars based on nothing more than the manipulation of a keyboard and the authority to do so.

    Perhaps some thug cops (of whom there is no shortage) will kneel on the necks of the hyper-rich until they die? (Don't hold your breath--we'd have to go longer than Floyd was able to.)

    What the hell is the problem with passing off fake money anyway? The argument used to be that unchecked counterfeiting would damage the value of the currency--but how can that be a problem now? It's absurd to uphold laws against counterfeiting at a time when the Fed is dumping actual tons of fiat bank notes into the monetary system.

    At least the person who made Floyd's bill--and Floyd himself may not have known it was counterfeit--had to put a lot of time and skill into producing the fake. (I would like to see the bill in question. Probably an impressive bit of art.)

    It has become surreal. Preposterous. Who gives a rat's backside if a member of the underclass is trying to get a few bucks worth of goods using a bum note when the entire monetary system has been critically and probably mortally wounded by members of the elite class so that they can continue to prosper while the working-class fear they'll be dumpster-diving for survival before this is over.

    There's no fixing this. It has gotten too weird. The unfairness factor has created a whole new pandemic.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:36am

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 408

    5

    Mark_BC said:

    Which is why I said I’d be more supportive of a riot against the government and bankers.  This riot, IMHO, is not targeting the worst bad guys.  I think it’s dividing us when we can’t afford it and wasting energy that could be better used elsewhere.

    I'm not sure what you're expecting but there will always be miscreants out there taking advantage of a situation and looting and doing other bad behaviour during a protest. That will never go away. That doesn't diminish the message of the majority of the protesters. And from what I hear the media isn't really paying attention to the many peaceful protesters, they focus on the few bad ones.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:38am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 205

    2

    Fractals have no Turnings

    Just expand the fractal out to include the year 2001.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:47am

    miguel

    miguel

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 10 2020

    Posts: 15

    1

    RE: RE Black Swans

    The Term Black Swan doesn't mean that you can't be prepared for it; It is more so that it cannot be predicted and is of very large consequence.

    However, you can be prepared for the unknown and unexpected if you do not fall for the "unobserved = unobservable" fallacy. The convexity of the system is dependent on its bottom up localized structure so that any error is small in scale and can be learned from; thereby strengthening the whole.

    As Taleb often alludes to, in the case of Pandemic, as in the financial crisis, the beneficial role of Federal Government / Monetary policy is not to centralize, thereby creating the environment for much larger potential systemic errors (fragile), but to serve as a support system for more localized governments to tinker and effectuate policy whose potential "smaller" errors can be learned from thereby strengthening the whole (Antifragile).

    He believes that Monetary Policy can serve as the Novacaine in unfavorable cycles but should not be confused for the necessary "tooth extraction". You cannot "fix" a rotten tooth by simply using limitless novacaine.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:58am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 180

    4

    Just wait long enough for organizing and leadership

    This is the way it starts.  This mess is widespread, not a single riot in a single city.  First it's chaotic.  But, give it time.  The chaos and pain often births change.  Without some relief, given more time, some leaders will step-up.  They may organize those with bad behavior (and others) into a power to advance some leaders twisted agenda.  Think of Hitler and others...

    We may get change.  But will it be a change for the better?

    For the time being, I enjoy my comfortable spot on the beach, tending to my garden.  My plan is to stay out of the line of fire.  But then, Sherman did burn a path through the South.  I'm sure unrest came to plenty who intended to stay out of the line of fire.

    Time for me to go tend to the powdery mildew on my canteloupe's, zucchini's, yellow squash and spaghetti squash.  It's all over the garden.

    I canned ten jars of dill pickles last night.  The second canning of the season.  And, I have other vegetables to preserve this afternoon.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 9:15am

    #80
    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 92

    0

    Behavioral immune system

    some of this is quite interesting and can be used to explain some of the various behaviors we are seeing.

    https://bigthink.com/stephen-johnson/are-parasites-shaping-geopolitics

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236666753_Pathogens_and_Politics_Further_Evidence_That_Parasite_Prevalence_Predicts_Authoritarianism

    I have not read the 4th turning book and don’t really plan to. I have been someone who has been into preparedness for 20+ years. I also enjoy reading on topics such as personality and human and organizational behavior. People tend to vote their temperaments unless pushed in one way or another by an outside influence.

    The Association Between Personality Traits and Voting Intentions in the 2016 Presidential Election

    I am not sure that “generations” have a specific temperament.  Much more likely that due to circumstances in a specific society specific temperaments tend to become more vocal. However, once that happens too much other groups in society start pushing back. I am not sure how much of that has to do with the financial clusterf-ery that is going on right now except to say that people will behave how their personality forces them to behave unless controlled inside some type of system of laws.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 9:42am

    Belmontl

    Belmontl

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    Joined: Aug 23 2009

    Posts: 40

    4

    Helping Refugees

    "I'm getting food parcels to several hundred hungry conflict refugee families for $8-10 each. " --- please speak more about this ... love to see what you are doing --- Great work -- we can stop "rubbernecking news" and all make a difference locally , nationally or in your case internationally

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 10:02am

    #82

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    8

    Trucking Boycotts - Time To Restock Your Pantry

    I noticed that I've let my emergency pantry slide a bit this week. I hadn't been going out like I had been each week and topping things off. Might need to get back up to my red line again.

    Truckers Threaten To Run Over Protesters and Refuse To Deliver Needed Supplies To Cities

    Given the number of Likes, it makes me sit up and notice.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 11:07am

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    9

    Contradiction Les?

    Les, with respect to your comments #69 and 73, I find a contradiction with another comment you made - #1 on the Garbage Science thread (bold my emphasis):

    I have sympathy for one individual who was mistreated by authorities, but handling of HCQ science and the entire virus response should have everyone up in arms."

    You got 15 thumbs up for that comment. So what I am trying to understand is why it is okay for people to take up arms over the virus, but it is not okay for marginalized groups who consistently, constantly experience exclusion and discriminatory behaviours in their day-to-day lives to do the same? Especially those who are dis-proportionally affected by the same virus you want us all to take up arms against? I would appreciate knowing what the difference is, Les. Can you elaborate on that for me please?

    My perspective is that the protests and riots are mere symptoms of the larger root cause of systemic discrimination. Unless a person has lived experience with that, they cannot truly understand the long term effect, of exclusion and oppression, whether implicit or explicit, inadvertent or intentional. People can only take so much before they push back.

    As a person with a disability I do have that lived experience. I can well relate to the rage felt by those who are oppressed. I have felt it myself, and still do, especially when I see any marginalized group being wronged. I am also aware of my privilege from being born a white woman in a middle class, Canadian home. I am aware that that privilege provided me with access to resources and legal avenues to help me, when things were not going well for me, to fight for my rights in the workplace (even if not always successfully). I am aware that many marginalized people do not have easy access to what I have/had access to because they were not born into a privileged societal class, and face ongoing systemic discrimination as a result.

    I recall a time when I was in my early 20's, struggling to get established in the working world without any of the supports, technological and otherwise, that we have today. My late, dear dad said something to me that, while I found it to be insensitive and racist, also had a lot of truth to it. He said "you are far better off being white and deaf than you would be to have hearing but be black." As much as I disliked and for a time disagreed with what he said, I do not think he was wrong.

    In your comment # 69 above, Les, you said this:

    Everything I’m seeing says the rioters are dominating the poor behavior narrative and the tragedy is that, to a large extent, they are attacking people and businesses that are not responsible for any of the grievances they are supposedly rioting about.

    My feeling is there is culpability in all of us as a society that has allowed the discrimination, exclusion and oppression to flourish. While there may not be direct responsibility for many, there is the indirect responsibility that comes from being bystanders. How many of us can say we regularly intervene when we see people's rights being violated? How many of us can consider ourselves allies to marginalized peoples - not just reactively, but proactively? Many people may be, but far, far more are not. We all love to trot out our respective constitutions, wave them about and proclaim loudly how important 'rights' are, and how we will fight for our rights. But at times, I think that only means some rights. Clearly, in society as it stands now, not all rights are deemed to have the same level of priority, or be worth fighting for...

    It is the lack of ally-ship, as well as a wilful failure to really and truly buy into the belief that we are all one that enables the kind of societal breakdowns we are seeing. It is the unwillingness to examine unconscious bias and how that affects decision making in all aspects of life. It was/is the allowing of the moral and ethical rot to invade and grow throughout society. Especially with regard to tolerance for the unfathomably corrupt banking and financial system, which has by far and order of magnitude been the biggest oppressor of all.

    Yes, I believe we are all culpable on some level. If we want to survive this Fourth Turning and come out on the other side with a better and more equitable society, then we must be better allies to and for everyone. That is my perspective on what it will take to truly create a world worth inheriting.

    Jan

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 11:25am

    Klaatu

    Klaatu

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    Joined: Jan 25 2018

    Posts: 22

    11

    Klaatu said:

    DaveDD,

    Thanks for chiming in, and no, you're not as you described yourself, IMO.  After months of thoughts to post here, I finally was provoked enough to grab a headline phrase without really worrying about the definition.  So until I know better, you're entitled to your interpretation.  We may be more in harmony that you suspect.

    As an 8-year follower of NTHE, I've had to ask myself, What is the alternate scenario, in which humanity pulls back from the brink of irretrievable environmental terminus.  Other than the improbables of an angelic host or aliens riding to our rescue, I'd only come up with an India-Pakistan nuclear exchange, and a pandemic with at least the lethality of 1918 or the bubonic plagues.  Or the Thwaites glacier breaking off some fine morning.

    We got off easy this time, on that scale.  And we're seeing CO2 down, what, 17%?  I await the next cycle of the Keeling Curve results.  More out of scientific curiosity than futile hopes of a lasting effect.

    I consider this pandemic to be a warning shot, and an invitation to take a different course, given us at a relatively cheap expense.  1918 was at least 60 million (young, "productive") people dead.  (Don't you other elders feel like they're getting ready to jettison us?  Best to have your society's ill intentions revealed to you in advance.)

    Do I think we'll take the message of warning seriously enough?  Not bloody likely.  But at least we're on notice.  My own escape plans have been blowing up of late, which is humbling on its own, but at least I've made them.  Something involving shearing llamas, maybe, but I can see from the videos that they're kind of ornery when you try to hold them down.  😉

    =======

    Long pent-up rant follows:

    This pandemic experience has been an inflexion point, in at least several ways, in all of our lives.  A worldwide sharing, from elites servantless in their mansions, to locked down hungry poor in favelas worldwide.

    I went out rarely, but wore a mask all through March.  The rest of my semi-rural county, OK maybe 30%, only caught on in April.  Before that, I had the sense that wearing the mask marked you as HAVING a disease, in most people's minds.

    In my mind, blind Conformity IS a disease.

    All through March, regional officials had been parroting the party line about NOT using masks, (1) because they're needed to meet the PPE shortages (as if I could drop off my 2009 SARS pandemic masks at the local hospital without them being trashed immediately), and (2) because you'll wear them ineffectively, plus, they'll give you false confidence.  Sheesh! What sanctimonious condescension!

    A month later, these leading lights were parroting the opposite position, decreeing when and where to wear masks.  Without a blink of remorse for their stupidity just weeks before.  Down the memory hole.

    And let's not get started on the current HCQ topic, which illuminates the complete, and completely corrupt, boobery on "both" sides of officialdom when it comes to groupthink.

    Oh, and now the Party Line is, repetitively, "You're not wearing the mask to protect yourself. You're wearing it to protect other people from YOU."  Again, SHEESH!  Sick of hearing them sanctimoniously droning on.

    I'm f*cking 70-something, supposedly in the vulnerable cohort.  I'm wearing it to lower my inoculum in the air from the a-holes around me.  (OK, that one unknown super-spreader.) F*ck you -- exactly when do you get to have some valued status deserving of survival in an industrial consumer society?  Apparently never.

    "Herd immunity"?  I don't want to be part of your f*cking herd.  I've done enough throughout my lifetime to separate myself from your herd mentality, and I'll continue to try to maintain that separation.

    I've lived at least 50 years of my life (since the Vietnam War) realizing again and again that we are in the hands of complete and dangerous idiots, and just trying to stay out of their way, picking my occasional battles, most of which have resulted only in me having a clear conscience, and little else.

    So, yes, "preppers" are anti-societal lunatics (probably dangerous, diseased, or otherwise demented hoarders), until the crises they've anticipated come upon us, and then, .... crickets.  "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

    Thank you for listening.  The STI, Search for Terrestrial Intelligence, continues.  Yes, there is intelligent life on Earth, just not enough of it.

     

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 12:41pm

    zza

    zza

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    0

    zza said:

    The center of all problems is "over-population" from which the imbalance between poor and rich manifest.

    The Earth has a maximum service capacity for 529 million humans after which this support capability starts to fail and all manner of problems manifest.

    The Goblet of the Truth page LXIX explicitly states:

    And you human beings of Earth, both young and old, are the ones who can no longer set down any roots in your life, you wander, demoralized and hopeless, bereft of work and home, with the result that you fight yourselves in all things and you hate your present existence, to the extent of finally bringing it to an end yourselves as has already been the case to an increasing extent since the twentieth century and will become ever more widespread in future. Therefore, with the third millennium, this time has already dawned in which these things have quickly found their beginning and will develop ever more rapidly the longer they persist. As a result, the number of diseases and plagues is increasing, as is the number of illnesses that severely impair drinking water and bodies of water because of poisons of various kinds, as well as the air, soil and foodstuffs which grow on trees and bushes as well as in fields, woods, gardens and greenhouses. And still your efforts to counteract all the disasters are in vain, as are your attempts to put a brake on this development, because it is becoming greater and greater and more catastrophic with every day, indeed with every hour and every minute, standing in relation to the rapid increase in overpopulation. Therefore, you human beings of Earth want to resurrect all that has been destroyed so far because of your guilt and irrational- ity as well as irresponsibility, just as you want to keep what has remained whole, whereby however all your efforts in this direction are in vain because you do not come to the right conclusion in rationality. And the right decision is solely and alone this, that the overpopulation be stopped through a worldwide regulation of births and in this wise your earthly humanity be reduced to an extent that is appropriate for the planet and for nature, in which case this extent has been defined in accordance with nature and the planet for the whole Earth at 529 million human beings.

    All these upheavals and the novel virus are a response to correcting the over-population imbalance. Contact Report 738 has stated that the 44% of the world's population that see the virus as a hoax will contract and spread the virus and will die as a result. Contact Report 730 and CR737 describes how the virus presents itself mildly at first leading to a seeming recovery with no trace of the virus only to have the virus re-appear impulse-based to afflict vital organs leading to death.

    It is vital that that the people of the Earth finally recognize the over-population problem as central and initiate a multi-year birth-stop followed by a year where births are allowed in a repeating cycle over a few hundred years until world population stabilizes below 529 million.

     

     

     

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 1:35pm

    Klaatu

    Klaatu

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2018

    Posts: 22

    14

    Belmonti

    Belmonti --

    I am new here, so I will guess that the photo I dropped in below will not post, CAPTCHA is being rather cruel to me, probably a wise choice by the PP site to not allow such. They do tell a thousand words, real people, real faces, receiving bags of food after being locked away from any earning for at least a month.  If I learn how to do it correctly, I may offer more.  They really were an experience for me, from a distance of 10,000 km.

    In this week which is very "1968" for many of us (Mayor Daley must be lurking behind some tweets somewhere), I am relieved by having a non-Americentric view from daily contact with people who are in a different country, culture, and language. I am still a "visitor" peeking in, with very little confidence in my own understanding of their outlook on the world.

    Thanks for your comment.  Colombia has at least 5 million "desplazados", on a par with Iraq and Syria, people forced to flee the decades of "civil war", mostly attacks by paramilitary groups in the employ of rich elites. Tens of thousands killed. Sponsored by, guess who, our favorite Uncle.

    The 2010 film, The Colors of the Mountain (Colores de la Montana), if you can find it, depicts the individual and family tragedies that are still occurring in rural villages in various regions.

    I recently mentioned it to the family I've been involved with for several years and was told that that was their story, and why they were now in a city ghetto. Ten years ago, the house of their aunt in the countryside was bombed, several people killed, and the children were beaten while their mother was away working in the city. I suspect that is not the whole story, but I will not pry.

    It is humbling, even intimidating, for me to be so close to the actual people chronicled so faithfully by Eduardo Galeano and others, the continuation of the massacres throughout Latin America encouraged by such as Reagan and tolerated by the American public in its stupidity.

    Colombia's pandemic mitigation has gone better than Peru's and Ecuador's, and certainly much better than Brazil's faint effort.  But confined to a small apartment, under police supervision, there is no way for day-to-day workers to feed a family.

    My family heard children crying from hunger in neighboring apartments in their Bogota slum.  I sent money and within two days, they were delivering food to 40 families. But dozens more requests came from surrounding calles and lists were made.

    I sent $2000, they made bulk purchases of eggs, milk, rice, flour and more, and they fed 200 more families.  The police provided vehicle help with deliveries, and space at their station to pack all the bags.

    The following week, I sent another 2k and this time, the purchases bulked up even better, and 250 families received their food.  I was overwhelmed by the efficiency and competence of these angels I thought I had known, as they transcended their own lifetime of deprivation in a time of crisis for others.

    The police then drove them across the city to Soacha, which is an even more impoverished location of refugees, many living in tents, including Venezuelans unable to work or return home, and conditions hardly imaginable to us. There are videos you may search out. I can take a little bit at a time.

    When I listen to Americans worrying whether their restaurants or colleges will reopen and "distance correctly", well, you can imagine how I wonder at the disproportionalities we tolerate. I can pop a beer and go sit in my backyard.

    I think that is enough for now.  Just to finish saying, after a lifetime of considering theoretically the paths to economic justice, being put face to face with an emergency for the poorest of the poor has me still in a state of shock.  It still has me re-evaluating myself and what I ought to live for.  What it means to be a "good person" in comparison with people who may be far my moral superiors.

     

     

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 2:43pm

    #87
    centroid

    centroid

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    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 84

    7

    centroid said:

    the protests aren't just about Mr Floyd. its about wealth inequality. sometimes people are struggling to articulate their anxiety and need a vehicle to which they attach that anxiety. Mr Floyd is it

     

    All roads lead back to the fiat money system:

    Broken countries.  Broken trade. Broken bond markets. Broken manufacturing. Broken businesses. Broken housing markets. Broken Labour markets. Broken people.  Mal-investments. Wealth inequality. Big Government. Mass immigration. Overpopulation. Nature fighting back. Wars. Even climate change.

    End the FED. End the ECB. End the BOJ. End the PBOC. End the BOE. End the SNB. End the RBA

    Bring back The Classical Gold Standard.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 6:56pm

    #88
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 781

    5

    Chris Hedges on Fire

    This is the most wound up I have seen Hedges. He goes so far to say he didn't weep for the precinct being burned down. For those who have a hard time understanding the riots you may want to consider you have never walked in their shoes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSxXpoWoTI

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 7:11pm

    #89
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 781

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    George Floyd Died of Natural Causes

    According to the Medical Examiner for Hennepin County, there is no evidence that George Floyd was asphyxiated. Folks we have now entered into the Twilight Zone. These riots are nothing compared to what is coming.

    For a black person in Amerika dying of natural causes means you died because you are black and nobody gives a shit.

    I would not want to be a cop right now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp8ISideoDE

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 7:22pm

    MarkM

    MarkM

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    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    5

    And

    Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself...and building 7 was brought down buy fire...amd Kennedy's brains flew onto the trunk of the car because he was shot from behind.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 7:26pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    Truckers enter the frey; prep accordingly

    The result is a lose-lose-lose situation, getting worse by the hour.

    Tanker truck drives into Minneapolis protesters

    https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idPiTm?now=true

    Yes, any coordinated response by truckers may add another twist to the already twisted supply chain story. So I agree we should assess our personal food supplies and other preps and replenish to fill in any gaps to the extent possible.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:21pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    5

    regarding floyd cause of death

    No one said he was suffocated.  So, that is what the coroner was looking for only and didnt find.. My guess there are about 10 others ways the actions could kill you.   Obviously, he died from this event,  he begged for them to stop and he couldnt breathe.. His whole body was in pain.. - my guess is the subluxated his spinal nerves which would cause all the pain and also likely caused some form of respiratory paralysis.      But one thing is for sure, he was murdered.  He did not die of disease or natural causes

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:30pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    No the riots are not about floyd

    Its about the super police state we have.  Its about total control and lack of welfare for the smaller ( poor )  citizens anymore.    Police are animals. They are not even taught with the humanity of a military infantry .    Police are public servants,. they have to put their lives on the line to protect us.  Not the other way.    Its enough of people being killed while dining with their kids - because they were a "reasonable threat"  how is someone eating dinner with their kids while you invade the wrong house etc.. a reasonable threat?   The truth is unless the bullets are already flying at you , you should not be allowed to pull your gun..  if you need to pull your gun and start firing because someone scratched their nose.. reached for their wallet ( after being instructed to present id ) , or moved an inch of their arm, you shouldnt be a police officer if you are this freighted of everyday action with the public with no real knowledge they are deadly..  Just assume all people want to kill you.   The truth is cops are not killed often.. to make them act like this .. this is modern training and modern brainwashing that the public is little sheeple that must be controlled by the BIG bad STATE.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:43pm

    #94
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    1

    re passing off fake money.

    Yeah its pretty ironic that we cant print off money but the feds can.?    But even though this does not give the right to execute someone in the street,  how do you know the guy passing the funny money, is not a victim himself?

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 8:54pm

    #95
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    More civil unrest to follow - all ahead of schedule

    Things are going to get ugly.  I am wondering if anyone here wants to start writing policy for the new contingent US govt when the current one is put out to pasture.. If my health were better, I would have done this about 10 years ago.  I am not sure Chris hasn't thought about policy// I really dont want to govern,  but I have a few great ideas where to start.  Maybe its time to start writing all brand new policy. and create a new political party, and be ready to go.

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2020 - 9:23pm

    #96
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    7

    Warning: More flashpoints immediately ahead

    WARNING:  Additional "flashpoints" lie smoldering, ready to inflame further social, political and economic unrest and upheaval.

    Note that the George Floyd funeral will be held in MN on Thursday, and his body flown back to Houston, TX for burial on Tuesday, June 9. (Source) Boxer Floyd Mayweather will be paying for all funeral expenses. (Source) There are multiple memorial services and marches planned for the weeks and months ahead.

    These events are rich sources for media sound bytes, photos and raw video clips, talking-head commentaries, and hard-hitting opinion pieces and reactive tweets. Even with the best of intentions and planning, more peaceful events will most certainly be exploited or hijacked by those with other, possibly malicious agendas.

    Expect more flashpoints thereafter, with charges to be levied (or not) and inquiries and trials to be conducted (or not).

    Meanwhile, there's a pandemic going on, waxing and waning throughout protests, elections, changing seasons and extreme weather, and grotesquely distorted ""markets"".

    Emotions and tensions are getting hotter while consumers, small businesses, NGOs and governments at all levels have already burned through whatever sparse financial "reserves" they had over the past few months. No one trusts that the "managers" can manage (or lead, print, lie, or force) a "fix" to this situation.

    The rate of deterioration and intensity of push-back from all sides is really stunning. Things are spiraling wildly out of control with potentially catastrophic, long-lasting consequences. It is hard to comprehend, and almost impossible to really prepare for such life-altering, rapid change.

    Hope and pray for the best, but plan for the worst.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 5:34am

    #97
    tbp

    tbp

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    Joined: Apr 12 2020

    Posts: 523

    1

    First gun: Handgun or AR-15?

    Additional self-defense commentary by Mike Adams: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-05-31-as-the-world-burns-uprising-riots-protect-yourself.html

    "I was about to write an article explaining how the Federal Reserve’s mass money printing is flooding the rich with wealth while the working poor are being looted and oppressed, and why that’s the real root cause behind the riots that are now spreading across the USA. It turns out that Chris Martenson beat me to it, and he already covered the topic brilliantly.

    So I’m presenting here the full article from Christ Martenson at PeakProsperity.com, who has also been one of the most insightful analysts on the covid-19 situation from the very start. And by the way, I’ve never seen Chris recommend what he’s now recommending in this article… this is a first.

    Read this article if you want to understand what’s happening right now in America, and follow the advice here if you want to survive. I’ll add some additional thoughts below his article."

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 5:56am

    #98
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    New Autopsy

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/01/george-floyd-independent-autopsy-findings-released-monday/5307185002/

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 8:36am

    Sigmund6168

    Sigmund6168

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    Joined: Oct 15 2011

    Posts: 2

    2

    Run on the BANKS in Maryland

    Lines of cars around ATMs at the banks in Maryland. What is going on?

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 9:51am

    Ision

    Ision

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    12

    Antifa -- The Communist Blackshirts

    Antifa is a domestic terrorist group. It must be crushed by law enforcement. Anyone who has participated in this criminal violence against the innocent and defenseless citizens in these communities must do serious jail time. Any politicians who have encouraged this criminal violence or have been silent in the face of it, or have failed to protect their citizens and communities, must be defeated and forever removed from any position of public trust. Any media figure or figure in the popular culture — actor, athlete, comedian, etc. — who has encouraged or excused this criminal violence should be forever condemned by the American people. There must be no excuses or exceptions for this violent mayhem and anarchy, endangering the lives and destroying the livelihoods of innocent citizens.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 11:17am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    3

    Re antifa

    The Federal govt - deep state, corruptions, and local and federal law enforcement are actually terror groups by their own guidelines.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 11:23am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    0

    Re first gun -

    If you had to have just one gun.. Make it a long rifle.   Something with a high power cartridge  - m16/ar15 etc uses a very small high power cartridge.   I opt for something closer than 30 caliber.   Something that has much better range and penetration power..   7mm or 30'06 can be loaded to near 3k-4k feet per second.   Most hand guns give you less 900.   And do not have the real stopping power..  However in close combat , its hard to get a long gun fired accurately.   But without stopping power , its not doing you much good. Unfortunately this is why police need to empty their rounds in suspects.. being fatal.. because one round is useless if not strategically placed.  You will get far more value out of long rifle than you will from a hand gun - unless you plan owning several and empty two at the same times in each hand.

    A shotgun slug has some stopping power too.  Not much good at range and little penetration power..  something like an '06 with armor piercing round - will go right through the engine block of any police cruiser.. or any other vehicle coming at you.  A handgun will not get you through a bullet proof vest either.    On the other hand , an arrow has plenty of energy , mass and penetration power as and will get you easily through a bullet proof vest and are easily as lethal as a bullet if not more so.

    If you want something for riot control - you could set up a barrage of spud guns  - loaded with tatters and shrapnel  - could take care of a large crowd.

    I guess what I am really saying, at the end of the day, I am not going to get the security I need from a hand gun .. that is for sure.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 11:53am

    dtrammel

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    Posts: 804

    0

    Depends on Your Personal Situation

    If you had to have just one gun.. Make it a long rifle.

    I would disagree nordicjack. A person needs to review their situation and the environment they need to protect. A long gun when you live in a dense urban situation isn't the best choice. A shotgun when you live in a open rural situation isn't the best situation.

    Do you need to protect yourself at close range or long range? Concealablity or open carry?

    I once got into an argument with a guy who advocated a suppressed blot action rifle in a high caliber as the best personal weapon for all situations.

    One of the reasons gun discussions often turn heated is everyone has a different situation, yet everyone has a favorite.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 11:57am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    1

    Yeah really depends on your situation

    IN an urban situation a handgun is likely the best - but chances are you will quickly be out numbered anyway.   Urban living will be the hardest when all melts down.  You are going to have to be very sharp.. and plan accordingly , you will need to be more resourceful than thinking your gun will solve all your problems.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 11:59am

    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

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    Defence firearms

    big .45 (colt 1911) to ensure stopping power.

    trench WW1 shotgun to clean the room with 1 shot. The Germans were so afraid for this gun they wanted it on the forbidden war list as it was too inhumane.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRWqKC5bqQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfHPLCeQSyI

     

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 12:03pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Regarding guy advocating bolt action

    I am one of those guys.   why because I am accuracy freak lol.   But heck, all that other stuff can jam.    A jam will not be good, when your life depends on the dang thing..     Bolts are the most dependable action.. not going to get much argument on that.      But really, its like flying an airplane.  How much more dependable do you really need?

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 12:07pm

    nordicjack

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    choice of arms

    44mag 45auto is the way to go - if you need stopping power.   You wont want to be firing that puppy in rapid succession though .. unless you have a rockstar arm.   If its not easy to fire for your use - its not going to be helpful

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 12:10pm

    nordicjack

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    one more thought when choosing a weapon

    You need to think about ammo - as things get bad ammo may be hard to come by.  9mm will be a likely choice here.. - you could always jack some ammo as needed from the dead cop on the ground or his burning cruiser.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 1:04pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Yagasjai's very insightful, relevant post, "What I see"

    In case you missed it, I'm reposting Yagasjai's very insightful comment of 5/31/20 from the dense and lively "Comforting Lies" thread:  https://www.peakprosperity.com/market-update-comforting-lies/#comment-669520

    IMO, Yagasjai's very thoughtful comment is relevant not only to the specific issue discussed on that thread regarding PP balanced perspectives, but also relevant to the broader issues discussed in this week's threads regarding the social unrest catalyzed by George Floyd's death.

    Here is an excerpt from Yagasjai's original post, which is worth reading in its entirety:

    "Having space for people to share what they see through their lens is essential for building a complete and comprehensive picture of the reality before us, because not one of us holds all the pieces. Every single one of us is missing many lenses, simply by virtue of where we landed. It's not our fault (no blame) and at the same time it is our responsibility to expand our awareness so that we can both contribute to and benefit from the collective intelligence of a wide range of lens holders. There are viewpoints and lenses that have been absolutely decimated for centuries (i.e. indigenous wisdom, feminine wisdom, working people wisdom) which are now more than ever before essential for human survival. And sometimes part of our role (if we are in any kind of privileged position) is simply to create an opening for those needed perspectives to more fully show themselves."

    "I cannot imagine what this has been like for Chris or Adam or their families. So I don't find it useful to criticize or attack them for what they might be missing when they are clearly cranking out high-quality, thoughtful, content, month after month (no blame). And at the same time I continue to hold out other lenses to look through and possible perspectives to hold because they now have a much wider and more diverse readership, which means an opportunity to reach farther than they might have imagined. It is up to them (responsibility) to continue to widen their lens so that those readers can also find a home here. For me, a world worth inheriting has many lenses."

    "And so I would have to disagree with those who are of the opinion that granny was avoiding doing the work. She was offering another lens. That takes effort. In my mind that is akin to picking up a broom. And if her efforts aren't exactly the way we would do it, that may actually be the very point she is asking us to consider. Sometimes it can be a stretch to recognize, from the limits of our own lenses, that the dissonance may actually be a gift if it can be received instead of dismissed."

    Yagasjai ends the post with this quote:

    '"The universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts, (1862 - 1960) was an English author, poet, and playwright."

    Thank-you Yagasjai.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 2:17pm

    Sparky1

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    CanadianPrepper, "Trump Threatens Martial Law Amidst Apocalyptic Looting" (video)

    In this 20-minute video Nate from CanadianPrepper vlog 1) breaks down the different types, motives and methods of actors in the recent waves of US civil unrest; 2) discusses the potential risks of imposing martial law (whether or not formally declared); 3) discusses implications of the recent events on US Constitutional first and second amendment rights; 4) places current events into the broader context of economic collapse and income inequality fueled largely by the Federal Reserve; and 5) identifies some indicators that may signal a full-blown SHTF escalation is imminent.

    Bi-racial and a long-term prepper with a substantial (80%+) US subscriber base, Nate provides an interesting, unique, well-informed and generally nonpartisan perspective.

    Trump Threatens Martial Law Amidst Apocalyptic Looting (6/2/20)

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 2:53pm

    dtrammel

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    Canadian Prepper is a good source

    I like his videos alot too.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 3:04pm

    Sparky1

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    When outnumbered "authorities" won't/can't help.

    The police are 'rounding-up the protestors and standing/driving-by the looters.

    This boots-on-the-ground video link was pinned in the comments sections to CanadianPrepper's video above:

    The Indiscriminate Looting of Santa Monica (6/1/20)

    Note: This video contains some strong language and profanity.  Discretion is advised.

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 4:17pm

    dtrammel

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    Great Example of Ground Level Chaos

    Good find Sparky. That video is a good look at what its like to be in the middle of low level looting and riot.

    It seemed like there was very little sense into the stores that were being looted. Also lots of indiscriminate violence. The person doing the video was at one point punched just for using a camera. Also it appeared that looters were operating in organized teams as well as flash groups of looters coming together when a store was breached.

     

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 4:31pm

    kunga

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    Shout out!! To Fargo, ND!!

    Emailed a friend there, then got on local TV news feed to see the truth.

    Saturday, peaceful march downtown, police chief marched with protesters. No problems. After dark, the rowdies got busy, broke windows, set fires in the street.  No looting, no structures burned.

    Sunday morning, the whole town, people of all colors, showed up for clean up, the governor even came over to help.  By the time my friend left church to go help, the clean up was all done.  A couple of businesses are serving customers as they wait for their window glass replacement to come.

    Do not despair, folks, this is the real America.  Our enemies may try to kick us when we are down, but we will get through this and be better.  Good luck to all.

    It's going to be a long ten years.  Hope, pray, prep.

     

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2020 - 5:57pm

    kunga

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    Thank you, Sparky1

    Canadian prepper is a sensible guy.  Good video.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 4:27am

    Mike from Jersey

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    Lancet study coming under attack

    The Lancet study on HCQ with zinc is coming under attack.

    Interestingly, the article posted below points out that the logical flaws in the study were so obvious that even people untrained in science were able to point them out.

    That raises a question.

    Non-scientists could pick up obvious flaws in this study. So just how did this study get past "peer review" in one of the top medical journals in the world?

    Here is the background. There is an ongoing Covid-19 world pandemic.  There were reports of HCQ being an effective treatment of Covid-19.  HCQ had a very long and extensive track record of safety. But this study claimed - against long standing evidence of safety - that HCQ was unsafe.  Thus, this study - prior to being published - obviously needed careful, focused, high level peer review.

    What is going on here?

     
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/mysterious-company-s-coronavirus-papers-top-medical-journals-may-be-unraveling

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 5:58am

    brighton_roy

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    Yes, Chris is ahead of the curve as usual, but MSM are now on it...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 9:10am

    nordicjack

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    MSM on it?

    I wouldnt really quantify the guardian as MSM.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 9:19am

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Sand Puppy and I wrote this post on Medium regarding HCQ-please share

    PP friends:

    Sand Puppy and I wrote this post on Medium regarding early treatment of Covid-19 with HCQ, zinc and azithromycin. I did most of the writing but he saved me from several stupid mistakes. 🙂 Any errors in the post are mine alone.

    https://medium.com/@drbrucedale/hydroxychloroquine-can-prevent-many-covid-19-related-deaths-ae5de7a73570

    My thanks to Mohammed Mast for suggesting Medium. Medium has over 120 million followers--hopefully one or two people will read this post and a few lives might be saved as a result.

    Feel free to spread this post as widely as you like.

    Bruce

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 10:47am

    robie robinson

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    Great article

    l have shared, and hope it goes viral!

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 11:27am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Just lost a $1100 shipment to customer due to looting.

    My wife forgot to insure the shipment - will receive a total 100.00     Thank you looters for walking off with 1100.00 of my sh&*.     Thank you Police.   You can kill people for nothing but you cant stop a guy robbing people blind.   Where are your guns and roughness now?  [Admin: unacceptable language removed]

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 12:32pm

    Sparky1

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    Nordickjack, that really sucks--sorry.

    I'm sorry to hear about that, Nordickjack. That really sucks! 🙁

    But I'm wondering if under a state of local/regional/national emergency (e.g., pandemic, civil unrest/war) will insurers actually be required to pay up. I wonder how many of the businesses or lost shipments that were vandalized will recoup their losses from their insurers.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 1:28pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Mike Maloney, "The Root Cause of the Riots" (video)

    In this very brief video Mike reflects upon the causes of past and current US civil unrest, the accompanying looting and destruction of property, and future implications. This is part 1 of 2 videos on this topic by Mike, with the second video to be released later today.

    "The Root Cause of the Riots" (6/3/20)

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 2:34pm

    thc0655

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    Posts: 2081

    8

    Nordickjack is in violation of PP community guidelines

    Post #121 violates PP standards. Furthermore, like so many others Nordickjack blames his failures and problems on the police. His wife fails to insure a shipment and it gets looted. That’s not his wife’s responsibility or the looter’s responsibility. It’s the fault of the police. And then he uses a sexual epithet to slander the police. Is everybody here good with that? Adam? Chris? Sparky1?

    TERMS OF USE

    We expect people to maintain the same level of civility in posting that a polite wedding guest would have at the reception table —before drinks are served.

    We expect and require courteous interactions everywhere comments can be posted to the site. In an online community, social courtesies are observed, just as at a physical gathering.  One doesn’t monopolize the conversation, pound the table about a single point until others’ eyes glaze over, insult their host or their fellow guests, or spew patently offensive slurs.  Tactfulness is a reasonable expectation within a voluntary community.

    Please ask yourself these questions before making a post:

    1. Does my post constructively illuminate an issue or answer a specific question?
    2. If constructively critical, is it emotionally neutral and considerate? Does it offer specific, actionable solutions?
    3. If asking a question, is it a bona fide question that will lead to an increased understanding of the “Thee Es” and related topics?

    Users should strive to post with integrity, accuracy and courtesy.  We expect that users will not abuse their anonymity by posting things that a polite individual would refrain from saying in person.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 3:00pm

    Mpup

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    Sorry for your loss Nordic

    However I can say from personal experience your generalization regarding law enforcement is not accurate or true.  I have a family member in law enforcement that is honest, hard working, compassionate, caring, and gives much to the community.  No doubt there are "bad apples" in law enforcement.  The largest majority  just want to serve and protect their communities and get home safely to their families.  It's hard enough doing the job without worrying whether some scumbag will kill you just for wearing the uniform.  Most in law enforcement are due our respect.  They have mine.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 3:14pm

    Sparky1

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    Re: Nordickjack' post

    Hi thc0655,

    Hmmm....good questions. I actually, possibly incorrectly, assumed that NJ's wife was the person who packaged and sent the parcel, and would therefore be in the best position (responsible?) for insuring the package. I took that as a statement of fact, not a statement of blame on his wife (or the police). NJ may have to provide additional information on that if he'd like.

    Otherwise, is it incorrect to assume that law enforcement is charged with protecting people and property? There have been numerous videos and personal accounts of police either standing by or driving by obvious looters/looting. Obviously, the police need to prioritize and scale their response based on many factors. Still, I can understand NJ's disappointment. But I was admittedly more focused on the question of whether insurers would reimburse for losses sustained during civil unrest/declared emergency--rather than placing blame for the loss.

    Lastly, I agree the "P" term is inappropriate and runs counter to PP posting rules and guidelines. I'll let Adam or Chris provide their better informed perspective on that. I'm sure they'll take any necessary action.

    I appreciate you raising these valid questions.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 4:56pm

    Boomer41

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 142

    13

    Kudos Drbrucedale

    Great article! Spells out the essential story with great clarity. Thanks also to Sand-Puppy for his editing.

    I have been trying to get an assurance from my PCP here in Massachusetts that, should I become infected with the 'rona virus, he will treat me early with HCQ+zinc+azithromycin. All I get in response are platitudes. My problem is that I am 80 next birthday and in great shape for my age, but I have a Right Bundle Branch Block which he says puts me a great risk if I take HCQ. I am trying to tell him that, at my age, infection with Covid-19 puts me at greater risk.

    I have obtained some HCQ and the other components through nefarious means. If I catch the 'rona I will give him one chance to do the right thing before I treat myself.

    At least I will survive or die on my own terms.

     

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 5:04pm

    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Joined: Aug 25 2009

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    4

    I sympathize with nj...

    .....however, the blame is  not on the constabulary  but the exercise of expletives. I have appreciated his defense on my choice of firearms in my setting(far FAR different than anyone here, you all have no idea ), but can’t excuse a post that I can’t read to my two year old granddaughter.

    thanks NJ, but when it all ends I am still a husband,father,farmer,optometrist,

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 6:00pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    Quercetin or Artemisinin

    Boomer41 wrote:

    I have been trying to get an assurance from my PCP here in Massachusetts that, should I become infected with the 'rona virus, he will treat me early with HCQ+zinc+azithromycin. All I get in response are platitudes. My problem is that I am 80 next birthday and in great shape for my age, but I have a Right Bundle Branch Block which he says puts me a great risk if I take HCQ. I am trying to tell him that, at my age, infection with Covid-19 puts me at greater risk.

    Boomer41,

    I'm really not in a position to comment on the pros and cons of HCQ VS quercetin and/or artemisinin as a zinc ionophore. I don't know if either of these HCQ alternatives would have the same risk and reward. I don't have any comorbidities, so it isn't worth my time to investigate; however, if I were in your shoes, I certainly would!

    Grover

    PS Great work Drbrucedale and sand_puppy!

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 6:42pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    5

    further, re Nordicjack post

    While I empathize with the loss, as I am sure most here do, there are more appropriate ways to express it. I for one thought that it was rather pathetic to blame his wife publicly - how about if he struck a more partner-like tone and said 'we' forgot to put on the insurance. Try to imagine Chris saying something like that about Evie... it's not how you respect your partner in a public forum. I have to wonder what his wife would feel if she saw his comment?

    In addition, the use of the 'P' word is particularly offensive to me, and I would venture many other readers. It is despicable. Use it in your private life if you want, totally your prerogative, but I do not want to see derogatory, classless terms like that here at PP.

    Jan

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 7:31pm

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    0

    Shared

    I shared the article with friends.

    Thanks!

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 7:47pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Sparky1

    Thanks for sharing.  Canadian Prepper made me stop and think about a few things.  There is a formula or ratio that will signal a tipping point in social unrest and that is how much of household income is allocated to food or other necessity like water.

    In Bolivia there was blood in the streets when citizens protested the high water costs imposed by a multinational corporation.  When the switch was made, new legislation made it illegal to collect water from roof tops or from local rivers and creeks, so the city/people HAD to buy it's water from this company.  When water costs totaled @40% of weekly income, there was pretty much a revolt.  I will have to say, those Latin American neighbors of ours really know how to revolt.  They will put their lives on the line, not just a night in jail.  Here's a link to an article on the Cochabamba Water War:  https://economicsofwater.weebly.com/case-study-bolivia.html    I learned this history I think from watching The Corporation.

    Also the Arab Spring which began in Tunisia with a self immolation by a street vendor was related to high food costs and other onerous taxation.  Food prices in parts of the Middle East were very high - again about 40% of household income.  Egypt suffered these high food costs preceding and during its revolution plus very high unemployment rates.

    So we can use that sign as this Prepper warned, when Main Street starts looting grocery stores for real, revolution is not far off.

    I feel the same way concerning the police brutality.  Shooting projectiles at people while on their own porches (I watched that),  barking out orders while patrolling the streets.  Unprofessional.  Minneapolis PD needs some sensitivity training.

    I'm trying to figure out why LE is going after the protesters and not so much the arsonists, looters, and vandals.  I have seen this myself multiple times.  Is it just the numbers to report?  Is it cowardice?  Are they following orders?  Lazy?   What?  Any news on LE efforts to find out where these pallets of bricks are coming from?

    Hearing this Canadian's perceptions about America's loss of individual rights is a little chilling.  He's worried about our civil liberties!

    Good video blog.  I'll have to check out CanadianPrepper from time to time.

     

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 8:08pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Mpup

    Right now is a tough time to be a law enforcement officer.  My son in law is a deputy Sheriff, I think a Lt, and is a hostage negotiator.  The reason he's a hostage negotiator is because he can empathize, he has a great sense of humor, and is patient.  I asked him how he felt about the Floyd incident and he believed the officer should go to prison.

    His department did not enforce the shut down orders either.  Only when a crime was committed, did they slap on the additional charge of violating the shut down.   He also spoke up and stopped another officer from using excessive force against a detainee, so he has integrity.

    I'm not seeing much empathy, patience, or integrity in the Minneapolis PD, right now.  I think maybe the Department is bad.  I've seen that happen before in a little town.  When a new police chief was elected, citizen complaints of excessive force rose substantially.  Some years later a new chief was elected, and the complaints subsided.

    I think NYPD has had  similar problems.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 9:45pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Island girl said:

    Haven't yet read your article, yet, but I will say this. I was born during a revolution in South America and lived through several since. Seen this movie. Burning the system down is easy. Governing is what's hard. Be aware that there here is a whole infrastructure in place to orchestrate riots. Bail money, cadre of civil rights lawyer, encrypted communications, scouts on bicycles to redirect paid protestors to areas were the is less police presene, piles of bricks delivered, and so on. Invitations to join the protests on social media. The point is to (1) distract from nefarious activity in the part of the rulng class; and 2) instill fear so that people beg for protection, which is essentially turning over their personal agency to those who seek greater power. The very people who caused the problems set themselves up as your saviors. Read Animal Farm, you'll see that the real goal of the revolutionary is to trade places with the oppressor. Sand puppy, what you are railing against - lies, lies, lies, manipulation, and so on, has its genesis in a lack of integrity. Character trumps everything. Want to change the world? Start by putting your own house in order. This is hard personal work. But it will give you equanimity and attract other righteous people to your orbit. You will be part of a small tribe you can count on to actually want what is best for each other and not to sell you out when the going gets tough. Such people are few and far between, so consider yourself lucky if you can count them on one or two hands. I think most of us are here because we sense Chris and Adam have integrity. The next virtue you need is courage. Because without it integrity is not possible. Yu need courage to navigate times like these. The last is prudential judgement. Being part of PP provides access to informaton we can evaluate to help with sound decisionmaking There is no guarantee we will not suffer. But the most positive approach, it seems to me, is  to get back to basics, morally and materially. I'm past my prime, but haveing lived through upheavals and times of plenty, and being a scientist hwo ahs grown to love philosophy and history, I think I have a little knowledge, experience and maybe even wisdom to offer those who are seeing these things for the first time. In this Fourth Turning, the Prophets need to teach the millennials and Gen Z how to rebuild;  they are the hero generation that will have to pick up the pieces. We are the remnant that can help them understand what went wrong, how we got here, what could have been done differently. They won't get it from the corrupt mainstream. At least we have that to offer. For those of us of a certain age, that can be our legacy.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 10:00pm

    Sparky1

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    Hladini, re: food/water shortages and civil unrest

    You're welcome, Hladini. I've really appreciated how CanadianPrepper (CP/Nate) has evolved as a prepper, vlogger, entrepreneur/small business owner, and person over the past few years. I'm not sure, but I think he's an addiction counselor by profession and may have also worked with confined (incarcerated?) populations, which adds another facet to his unique and informed perspective. (I've liked most of his videos, except for his older "American Prepper" spoofs, which just make me cringe regardless.)

    Thank you for sharing the link to the Cochabamba Water War case study. It looks very interesting and relevant to current events. If you or anyone else here could find it, I would be interested in learning the source and formula you mentioned regarding the ratio of food and water to income that might suggest a tipping point for social unrest.

    Whatever it is, I think we're probably nearing that point for many here in the US, and probably past that point in some other countries. But recent generations within the US and other western countries are not accustomed to extreme food/water shortages, so the decline and hardship will be felt very acutely here.

    I'm deeply concerned about the cost and availability/supply of food and water given multi-year crop failures, pestilence, livestock and poultry pandemics, human pandemic, droughts, extreme weather, natural and human-made disasters...and/or some cascading combination thereof. As you've noted, there does seem to be historical precedent for social unrest and societal/economic collapse that is preceded by widespread food and water scarcity (whether due to cost and/or supply). Add that to the collapsing "3 E's" which underlie all resource wars and geopolitical conflicts. Inevitably, I think this will turn out very, very badly.

    I agree that lootings (and riots?) for food and water will likely indicate a new, more dangerous level of civil and economic crisis. I think it will be manifested differently in cities vs. suburban vs. rural areas, but all will be affected. The role and actions of law enforcement and other "authorities" may run the gamut, but ultimately may not be enough to contain the unrest and restore access to life-sustaining resources for many areas and communities/populations.

    I'd like to be more positive, but I think that recent events are really just a harbinger of more extreme, widespread distress and disruptions to come.

    I'll continue to fortify as current events unfold, staying alert for food or water raids that may signal an escalation to a true SHTF/"Mad Max"/dystopian future as CP suggests. Hopefully, it never happens.

    Hladini and all, stay well, alert and safe during these "interesting" times.

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  • Wed, Jun 03, 2020 - 10:11pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Island girl said:

    I've been a scientific writer for 20 years. Well done.

    PS. The WHO has restarted the HCQ arm of the trial now that the Lancet study has been cast into doubt.

     

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 1:48am

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

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    4

    Antifa

    I’m finding more and more evidence that Antifa is behind the violence, deliberately turning peaceful protests about which Americans largely agreed to violent riots sowing animosity.

     

    here are a couple good resources. Bill Gertz, by the way, is a very good intel/military journalist.

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/3/antifa-planned-anti-government-insurgency-george-f/

    https://www.redstate.com/dennis_santiago/2020/06/03/how-can-america-fight-antifa/

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 3:10am

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    Thank you DrBruceDale and SandPuppy

    Great synopsis of the argument for HCQ.  No doubt Chris will be sharing this.  Until further studies and trials are completed we won't have a more complete and accurate picture of the efficacy of HCQ+.  Sad and sick that peoples lives have been reduced to being political footballs.   This article will be shared with my doctor and family members.  I recently had a long conversation with him regarding HCQ.   At his request I contacted my pharmacy and found that they would fill a script for HCQ if written by him.   Should find out today if HCQ will be available to me.   My sincerest thanks,  your sharing of information (and that by others here) are what make this forum so special.  edit to add link to article:   https://medium.com/@drbrucedale/hydroxychloroquine-can-prevent-many-covid-19-related-deaths-ae5de7a73570

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 5:39am

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

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    4

    Finally, some actual data on police killings of blacks

    Tucker Carlson uses WaPo data from 2019 to see how widespread police killings of unarmed black people really is. Some politicians, celebrities and the media are claiming a genocide is occurring and Carlson tries to determine if that is factual based on the data. Go to the 8:00 minute mark to see the claims of genocide followed by the data.

    Summary for 2019 from Washington Post research:

    325 million people live in America

    Police killed 1004 people total in 2019, out of which the race of the suspect and the officer was recorded was 802. Of those 802 killed by police, 371 were white and 236 were black. Of those 236 blacks killed the WaPo states just 10 were unarmed. Of those 10 who were unarmed: in 5 cases the suspect physically attacked the officer before the officer fired, in 1 case the officer claimed he fired accidentally while trying to get the suspect under control and handcuffed with his gun in hand, in 2 cases the officers were charged criminally, and in 2 cases there were no charges and no attack (1 of those was a male who had had a shootout in the past with police and was barricaded threatening to shoot police again). Carlson summarizes the facts around all ten cases.

    Carlson, using WaPo research, also pointed out that killings of unarmed blacks by police has dropped since 2015 (first year of WaPo research).  In 2015, 38 unarmed blacks were killed by police and in 2019 it was only the 10 detailed above.

    Carlson points out that in 2019, 7,407 blacks were murdered but he doesn’t mention that the overwhelming majority of them were unarmed and were killed by other blacks.

    Carlson concludes there is by no means a “genocide” going on but some people are inciting race hatred around this subject to gain political power.

    Brandon Smith picks up that theme too.

    http://www.alt-market.com/index.php/articles/4241-civil-unrest-is-inevitable-heres-how-it-will-be-exploited-to-bring-in-tyranny

     

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 6:40am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: Antifa

    I’m finding more and more evidence that Antifa is behind the violence, deliberately turning peaceful protests about which Americans largely agreed to violent riots sowing animosity.

    I will be completely surprised if Antifa isn't shot through with FBI agents, other LEO infiltrators and even private mercenary types.  Heck, they might outnumber the pawns.

    After talking with a close friend who was a major photographer at Standing Rock, I learned that nearly every episode of violence and fire-starting were by infiltrators.  They dress the part and then 'get things going.'

    They have many motivations for doing this ranging from militarized LEOs wanting to be able to practice with all the groovy military hardware and practices to companies wishing to sell more goodies to LEO types.

    The Standing Rock protesters were acutely aware of these provocateurs and kept a close eye out for them.  Anybody starting trouble was descended upon and several scooted back across the lines or were captured and tossed back over to the LEO side of the line  whereupon they were witnessed being let go to give it all another go.

    I'm not saying these are the only bad actors, but there are enough of them to make it 'a thing.'

     

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 7:23am

    VTGothic

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    7

    We need to deal in facts, not supposition

    Chris, without question there are infiltrators and even agent provocateurs in the midst of the Antifa protesters. But don't "misunderestimate" Antifa. Here, as with Covid coverage, anecdotes don't replace evidence-based documentation. Fact are called for, not supposition: Lord knows there are already more conspiracy theories and flights of fancy and ideologically-driven narratives at play than is needed.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 7:33am

    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

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    Cj Sloane said:

    "FBI 'has no intelligence' indicating antifa was linked to weekend violence in the George Floyd protests, despite Trump and Republicans' claims"
    https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-no-intelligence-antifa-weekend-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 8:20am

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    3

    From a social media invitation to join protests

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 8:33am

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Island girl said:

    We send money to Venezuelan relatives monthly. Western Civilization took eons to build takes only decades to destroy.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 8:52am

    tourcarve

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    "Thus far, 2020 seems to have been some sort of cosmic clerical error." Eric Barker

    Nabbed from Eric Barker's blog posting "Three things resilient people do every day"

    3 Things The Most Resilient People Do Every Day

    resilient-people
    "Thus far, 2020 seems to have been some sort of cosmic clerical error."

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 8:58am

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

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    9

    Double standards and short memories

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 9:06am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    An excellent piece!

    Thanks Dr and Dr! I've already shared your Medium piece with family who don't quite get our confidence in EHQ+.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 10:44am

    Maritime Man

    Maritime Man

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    3

    401k

    My neighbor just took out her 401k the full $100k allowed under the new Covid regime.  My first reaction, to myself, was that was dumb.  She did, however, have an interesting take on it.  She is using the money to buy something tangible, property outside of the burbs.  She said it was worth the risk given that she is unsure the money will be worth anything if the system goes sideways.  Does anyone have a good counter that I can use when discussing the topic with my other neighbors?

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 10:52am

    Sparky1

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    Police brutality and murder are crimes regardless of race or gender

    If this poor woman was murdered by Minneapolis police then I hope her story and that of others is brought to light and the perpetrators are held accountable. Police brutality, murder and other crimes against citizens may be endemic in Minneapolis and should be routed out.

    George Floyd died under truly horrific and well-documented circumstances, while restrained and in the custody of four police officers, at least some of whom apparently have an extensive record of complaints of other instances of police brutality.

    I don't know the circumstances surrounding the death of the woman in the photo. Maybe Tucker Carlson can help locate video of the officer who smugly wedged his knee on her neck for 8+ minutes while three other officers held her down until dead.

    Really, I'm kicking myself for taking the bait on this one. >:-(

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 11:04am

    sand_puppy

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    Project Veritas Infiltrates-- Planning Violence

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/project-veritas-infiltrates-clandestine-meeting-violent-antifa-cell

    ----

    Last night on NBC10 news the Rhode Island governor  explained that though there were plenty of people who showed up to protest that were angry, but that the riots and looting were not an example of people that were so angry that they got "out of control."  The group was funded and organized by someone.  It was intended to wreak havoc.  It was a coordinated criminal attack on downtown Providence.  It was not a protest.  It was a riot, looting and vandalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n5_D59lSjc

    In other comments, RI Governor Gina Raimando indicated that social media was used to urge local participants to gather downtown advising that there would be chances for looting specific stores.

    Videos that I have seen show a coordinated "protestor" group rushing against police lines in a V formation with a trailing guy carrying a Molotov cocktail that penetrates the line and throws the burning cocktail into the building.  (Saw a video from a twitter feed on ZH.)  Looked like a football play.  Coordinated.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 11:23am

    Bleep

    Bleep

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    Antifa

    If Antifa is such a big threat, how come we don’t hear about their training camps like we hear about Neo-Nazis and paramilitary in places like Idaho?  How come they are not represented at training facilities like Front Sight? No training = no threat = nothingburger with cheese.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 11:32am

    thc0655

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    It’s important why you don’t know about this case Sparky1

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/03/opinions/mohamed-noor-conviction-justine-ruszczyk-death-raises-questions-jackson/index.html

    I agree 100% with you that the race of the victims or perpetrators (police or non-police) should not be a factor in determining guilt or innocence or the punishment for the guilty. Black Somali Officer Noor was riding in the passenger seat of a police car with his white partner when they answered a 911 call about a woman screaming, possible sexual assault. The officers turned down the Minneapolis alley where the screaming was allegedly coming from but didn’t hear anything. So they turned around to make another pass. Justine, the white woman who called 911, came out from the back of her house to meet the officers In her pajamas and a phone in her hand. She approached the driver’s window. Officer Noor testified he was startled and feared for his life so he drew his gun and fired one shot past his partner’s head (!!) hitting Justine in the abdomen and killing her. He was sentenced to 12-1/2 years for manslaughter/3rd degree murder. In the above CNN opinion piece the writer thought that showed racism because the sentence was so extreme because white officers never get that kind of treatment. I wonder what he’ll say if Officer Chauvin gets the same, which is highly likely unless the mob gets its way.

    The sentencing of a former police officer in Minneapolis punctuates a case whose ripple effects raised profoundly uncomfortable -- and unanswered -- questions about race, policing and the use of force in the United States. The 12 1/2 year sentence he received Friday for the fatal shooting of Justine Ruszczyk is outrageous and disturbing.

    Police are seldom -- if ever -- indicted, much less convicted, for shooting African American men. Yet, where the victim here is a white woman and the police officer is black, he gets the book thrown at him. This sentence is lengthy and unjust,and shows a capitulation by the judge against her oath to administer justice.

    More importantly, I wonder why you don’t know about this case. Could it be the media and the race hustlers didn’t make a big deal about it (they didn’t for some reason) so it never registered with you? Why weren’t there any riots? I say it’s double standards at work, and powerful people choosing to incite hysteria about the Floyd killing and benefit from it but not taking an interest in the killing of Justine Ruszczyk (for some reason).

    I agree with you: let’s treat all the cases of violence fairly and without bias of any kind to the extent our flawed humanity allows.

    And while I have your attention, do you know of any evidence that the killing of George Floyd was in any way racially motivated? Because “everybody” has been saying it was from Square One. Could it have simply been a criminal act?

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 11:49am

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    This seems relevant to the discussion at hand

    How union, supreme court shield Minneapolis cops

    A special report I found on Reuters. I also found it very disheartening to read.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 12:12pm

    PaulJam

    PaulJam

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    ANTIFA

    I'd like to see more evidence that Antifa exists in a size or form that is of more than minor significance.  The majority of references that I see to Antifa (zero hedge, trump, etc) make me suspicious that agenda-driven individual/groups are bent on blowing up an ant into an enormous boogeyman to advance thier own objectives.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 12:14pm

    nordicjack

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    Re factual data on police killing

    I am sure its not as bad as some racial groups are saying it is.  But I assure you the facts presented are not close to the facts - not even by half.  But even 2 x would not be a big problem.     But, where I have difficulty is in observation.  The police are very brutal whether people die or not by their facts.  The do rough up people and use subduing tactics unnecessarily.  I have seen where they twist arms and apply pressure so hard that the normal action/reflex is to pull from the pain - and then they think you are just more resistant.. they harder ever just say you are under arrest hands behind you..    they grab first .. push shove .. and everything between. its intimidation, its assualt , its illegal.. its all wrong.. I assure from what I witness , no one is treated as they should be - murderers or not..   All treated the same. all treated like dirt.. all kicked, punched shoved, rolled etc.. white, black , red, yellow , doesnt matter.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 12:37pm

    thatchmo

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    Where's Joe Friday?

    Hmmm.  Assuring me that you know the facts, without presenting evidence, is not particularly reassuring.....Aloha, Steve.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 1:13pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Dick Gregory Cowboys and Indians

    Dick Gregory was one of the greatest social commentators/comedians that ever lived.

    It was 50 years and 1 month ago that 4 students were murdered at Kent St. One year after Dick Gregory performed at Kent State. There is an entire album of the "performance". This is one section of it called "Cowboys and Indians"  As with all comedy there are elements of truth. Each one of us can judge for ourselves what is true.

    I can't say I know what it is like to be black as I am white. I can say that Dick Gregory points out that young white people with long hair can have some idea. As a young white man with long hair hitchhiking through the South in the 60's and 70's I caught a glimpse. As a back to the lander with long hair in the South I know what is like to walk into the local grocery store take my items to the checkout and be ignored. I know what it is like to be stopped and searched w/o a warrant because I had long hair. Trivial, I know compared to being black in Amerika.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6lnFUufb3s

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 1:17pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    ANTIFA is real

    Depends where you live, out here, I can assure you there is an ANTIFA !  And, an even more omminous  local overlapping group, BAMNA,  By Any Means Neccessary.

    I do not know how many there are ( ANTIFA), but they train and get donations and do travel to places and instigate.  Not saying all the chaos is on them at all, but they do cause chaos, this is well known.  There are likely many groups at these current mob events, some wanting to peacefully protest, others to cause chaos for political ends, others just opportunistic thieves.  ANTIFA is not responsible for all of it, but do not discount their rolee as when that many epopel are in one spot, all worked up, they can be easily led by agitators

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 1:40pm

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Not sure she's wrong

    IMO, if she's using the money to purchase good land that allows her to provide her own food and is aiming toward being able to live apart from the grid, it's a viable alternative to a retirement account. Especially if she will own the land outright, or close to it.

    Not everyone thinks a swollen bank account equals resilience. Me, for one. I did something similar a decade ago. No regrets. The entire economy can skid into a ditch (which it will), the dollar could inflate into toilet paper, the cities can burn (they are), and utilities could crumble to the ground. My life will go on pretty much as it is.

    It's surprising how much money you don't need when you have infrastructure and don't mind dirty fingernails.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 1:52pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    thc0655: What we know, think we know, and don't know.

    [Sorry, I meant to send this as reply to thc0655's comment above.]

    "More importantly, I wonder why you don’t know about this case. Could it be the media and the race hustlers didn’t make a big deal about it (they didn’t for some reason) so it never registered with you? Why weren’t there any riots?"

    Well, I don't know why I never heard of Justine Ruszczyk's killing. Truthfully, I was battling cancer at the time (I'm better now, "no evidence of cancer") so I was personally distracted.

    Why was the Justine Ruszczyk  story not picked-up by the media as extensively as the George Floyd killing? One factor may be the extensive, graphic video evidence of Floyd's arrest and death which circulated quickly and widely through social media. Strangely, the body cams of both officers in the Ruszczyk killing were turned off. No video, no ability to exponentially, graphically inform and engage people worldwide of her tragic death and its questionable circumstances.

    I don't know all the facts of the Ruszczyk killing, but it seems the 12-year sentence took into consideration the reckless and extreme nature of officer Noor's response, i.e., shooting past his partner's head and killing an unarmed person that would not typically be seen as a threat by a well-trained, disciplined law enforcement officer exercising good judgement. Based on the CNN opinion piece, I don't necessarily agree that the officer's sentence was excessive or racially motivated. Maybe a better question to ask is why officers in other officer-involved-shootings did not receive stiffer sentences, regardless of the gender, race or other characteristics of those involved.

    I agree that the Floyd death and reactions are framed within a racial context. Also, this was the third such death of a black person by law enforcement within about a three-week period. I think many are coming to realize that the protests or "riots" (not the widespread, opportunistic or planned looting) are the result of larger societal and economic ills, which may/may not encompass racism or police brutality. The protests have allowed the public to see and hear multiple instances of over reaction and violence by law enforcement, fueling more outrage and garnering greater public support.

    To a lesser degree, media coverage of law enforcement "taking a knee", walking with protestors, putting down their shields, standing/driving by "protestors" looting and destroying property are framed as displays of law enforcement/authorities' weakness, dereliction of duty, and kowtowing to lawlessness. Depending on individual and media bias, there are those that are running or "hustling" that narrative as well.

    The Floyd death and reactions are coming during a pandemic at a when we in the US (and worldwide) are grappling with fear, isolation, health and medical crises, massive job and business losses, and a rapidly failing economy (which was baked in the economic cake prior to the pandemic thanks to the FR and CBs). Race and racism are difficult topics to deal with under "normal" conditions. Minorities, women and the poor have all been disproportionately impacted by this pandemic. More people are marginalized, scared, angry, financially and food insecure, and have more time on their hands than any other time in modern history. The Floyd killing was just the match that lit the tinder. We didn't have these factors back in July 2017 around the time of the Ruszczyk case to the extent we do today.

    Have "race hustlers" run with the story to incite the masses? Undoubtedly. Just as the gender hustlers exploited the "Me Too" movement regarding sexual assault; the Red/Blue, liberal/conservative, pro/anti firearms hustlers exploited the Bundy ranch standoff; and on and on it goes. There's never a shortage of people and special interests to polarize legitimate concerns to appeal to tribal differences for gain.

    I think that this tragic event has catalyzed some difficult but potentially beneficial reflection and discussions--and maybe some productive action. We'll find out. Hopefully, we won't irreparably rip the social and economic fabric of the US in the process.

    "let’s treat all the cases of violence fairly and without bias of any kind to the extent our flawed humanity allows."

    I think that's a great place to start and end. Thanks for a thoughtful discussion, thc0655. 

    (I'm off to tend to my animals and garden now in this blazing, 107 degree heat. Whew!)

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 4:01pm

    MountainBlues

    MountainBlues

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    PaulJam re:ant ifa

    You mean like the white supremacists? What percentage of the US population do they represent?

    An few ants can sure ruin a picnic.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 4:37pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    RIP, George Floyd

    I really wasn't going to comment, I hate getting caught up in drama, but I finally have to give my non professional opinion.  I believe Derek Chauvin, the direct murderer of George Floyd is a psychopath.  I think he should be charged with first degree murder.  He was just waiting for a chance to kill someone.  To experience that ultimate power and control.

    It is interesting that he had worked with Floyd.  And Floyd allegedly passed a fake $20 bill, where did that come from?  Not really a common item.  And Chauvin just happened to be on the call.  Maybe the murder hadn't been detailed out, but when opportunity presented, Chauvin took advantage of the situation.

    Yes, I think all "officers" present should be charged.  Psychopaths can have a psychological domination over those around them.  The "golden boy" effect.

    I wish Chauvin could get what he deserves, or at least be put away for a long time.  Too bad if he escapes responsibility by suicide, but it would take care of the problem.  Tax payers win.

    All my own opinion and rant.  Thank you.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 5:01pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    The Fourth Turning

    Rips the bandage off the festering wound.  If you find gangrene, amputate. Destruction.

    A hand full of maggots will clean up the rest.  Creativity.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 5:06pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    ANTIFA

    They way they act, I think of the name as being this: Anti F(irst) A(mendment) as what they believe and do is shut down what they do not agree with.  They do this by violence, throwing benches thru the window, hitting protesters they do not agree with weapons, like bike locks in socks, pipes, frozen water bottles, etc....

    What they think their names stands for is just ironic, anti-FAcist --  as in reality ANTIFA is the most facist group out here.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 5:17pm

    Time2help

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2346

    3

    Mercenaries (?)

    Hmmm....G4S, DynCorp, Unity Resources, Academi…take your pick. Could these be mercenaries? Different ROE's. Could be non-Americans operating under a corporate umbrella. Possibly part of agitation/counter-agitation efforts from Day 1.

    "Unacceptable": Democrats sound alarm over unidentified law enforcement patrolling D.C. protests (CBS News)

    “Washington — The death of George Floyd in Minneapolis last week has drawn thousands of protesters to the streets of the nation's capital, leading President Trump to direct his administration to boost the number of federal law enforcement officers on the ground.

    But photos of unidentified, armed officers donning face shields and protective gear standing guard near the White House have raised concerns among Democrats, who are warning that the dearth of insignia and identifying information could deny victims the ability to hold officers accountable if they engage in misconduct.

    "This is unacceptable that you have armed uniformed security, with no identification," Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, told reporters on Capitol Hill. "It allows for really dangerous potential mischief. When things go wrong you need to be able to identify who it was that punched a reporter or took a club to a protester, and without identification, there's really no way to do real accountability."

    Congressman Don Beyer, a Democrat from Virginia, also characterized the presence of the unidentified officers as "unacceptable," and said he is drafting legislation to address the issue.

    "Unacceptable for uniformed federal officers policing constitutionally-protected assemblies to refuse to identify themselves to people who pay their salaries," Beyer tweeted Wednesday. "Denying accountability to the public they serve ensures abuses."”

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 6:56pm

    Bleep

    Bleep

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    1

    Antifa

    Your reply doesn't really sway me either way.  Where does your information that there are ANTIFA groups in your vicinity come from?  Journalistic investigations?  The neighbor next door?   FBI?  Law enforcement? Is there data you can provide?

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 7:10pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Antifa

    Chis Hedges On Contact on Antifa

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IrV9iWyxfs

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 7:29pm

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    4

    Accountability

    "This is unacceptable that you have armed uniformed security, with no identification," Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, told reporters on Capitol Hill. "It allows for really dangerous potential mischief. When things go wrong you need to be able to identify who it was that punched a reporter or took a club to a protester, and without identification, there's really no way to do real accountability."

    I am laughing out loud at the line “when things go wrong you need to be able to identify who it was”.....Why does that not apply to the thugs and looters?  So many crimes are caught on camera....these people need to be identified and jailed.  The bad cops are in jail. That is justice. The thugs and looters and the riot driven murderers need to be in jail also.

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  • Thu, Jun 04, 2020 - 7:35pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    9

    Not accurate

    I live in this area, we know what ANTIFA stands for because they have told us, many times, We have seen who is violent and attacks, and it is ANTIFA, we see who shut down the talk at Berkley, there was not a fight between any groups, it was just them keeping it from happening.  They used to be more forthright and open in tactics, it used to be realy easy to see what they were saying, I have read their flyers and announcements and strategies, I live in an early active area of theirs.  We have had criminal court cases involving them attacking people at protests, convictions, etc... I have seen them and the broken windows and spray painted messages in my town.  They do not believe in alternate viewpoints, that is why I call them anti-first amendment.  They work hard to shut it down.  This is a reason why they go and disrupt other groups gatherings, the national media does not report what happens correctly, ANTIFA hears of the other group, decides that they cant "let them" gather or have speeches and goes there to start a fight/riot so that the police will shut it down, it is one of their tactics.  Now, of course, after the first few times, the other groups know this and go anyway to assert their free speech rights, but knowing they are walking into a fight.

    One of the last ones like this not far from here, the group with the permit ( right leaning) has reserved the park for a gathering and speakers,  the police, expecting trouble has a perimeter fenced off, and searches every one of that group for any weapons or anything that could be an improvised weapon ( flag pole, etc..) and they go start the speakers etc.... there are people who form outside the park to protest the first group.  Then ANTIFA comes too, but they have not been searched, and they do not just hold signs or protest, they are there to "shut it down" and overwhelm the police line, but they have improvised weapons, the group with the permit has been searched and does not.  If you watch this, it is pretty obvious

     

    As to how I know anything about ANTIFA, well, yes, we have charges pressed and court cases and in the trials things come out about the group, meetings, tactics.  Yes, we have reporting, variable on accuracy but the most local stuff was ok.  And lastly, yes, neighbors, word of mouth their own flyers as I have hung out in a co-operative area frequented by them, not everyone who is part of the repair co-ops etc... were ANTIFA, but certainly it is where they would feel welcome and more above board.  SO, sure, just believe what you want because you dont know them, I have nothing to prove, just letting you know what is said is not fake, it is real

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 3:16am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 263

    14

    CAFOs are NOT the necessary future for dense protein production. In fact, their days are numbered.

    Les wrote: "There is no longer enough arable land to meet the ever increasing demand for meat without CAFOs (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations)." He notes that's why he shifted to a plant-based diet, and asserts it is healthier for body, animals, and planet.

    I agree that CAFOs are unconscionable. With everything else, I completely disagree. It's not possible to eat a truly healthy (ie long-term sustainable) plant-based diet without securing a source of B-12 and adequate amounts of omega-3 fatty acids. To accomplish those 2 needs, most people in most parts of the world, esp. in most of the US, have to increase our consumption of fossil fuels for procurement, concentration, storage, transportation, and delivery of those necessary ingredients to human health. First world people who successfully live on plants (usually for a period of time before reverting) are living off the nutritional capital their bodies and our rich food supply system have stored up; when that's exhausted either reversion or ill health follow.

    It is animal protein and fat that provides the B-12 and omega-3 fatty acids we humans must have for peak health. CAFO farming actually fails in that regard because confined feeding operations feed animals on grains rather than grasses, and grains are too rich in little-needed omega-6 fatty acids, while grasses produce essential omega-3 fatty acids. Since animals, like humans, are what they eat, grain diets produce animal fat tilted too high toward omega-6 fatty acids compared to a dearth of omega-3s in grain-fed animals. When humans eat animals rich in omega-6 and short on omega-3, we develop more acidic systems - the precursor to chronic and acute ill-health. It is not meat, but omega-6 rich meat that contributes to heart diseases and other maladies.

    Diets that replace meat with grains also add too much omega-6 to the human system, setting up an omega-3 deficiency, which in turn leads to a host of nerve system problems, including early declines in mental functioning, and are implicated in arthritis and other joint complaints, as well as declining brain-body communication. Leaky gut syndrome is also implicated, with all that means for ill-health.

    When our omega-6 to omega-3 ratio is out of balance, we get that persistent "empty" feeling in our guts, even when we're physically full. That's one factor that leads people to constant snacking; the other is that we get incomplete nutrition from foods that are grown "conventionally" rather than in soil that is rich in organic matter, and from eating nutrient-poor hybrid vegetables, grains, and grasses rather than nutrient-dense heritage versions. That persistent low-level hunger, despite eating so much we gain weight, is the body signalling an incomplete or out of balance nutrient profile. Eating more of the same foods that set up the problem does not solve the need, but perpetuates it. And so, we are overfed but undernourished and chronically ill and depressed as a nation.

    The amount of land that has to be converted to grain production to offset the protein found in greater concentration in grass-raised animals is truly astonishing - and environmentally unsustainable. It also requires the plant equivalent of CAFO farming: monocrop strip mining of the soil that is demonstrably destroying the remaining agricultural land at such a pace that experts are now saying the world has about 50 crop seasons left before the situation become disastrous. It's already critical. This is one reason aquaponics is getting so much of a pass despite its heavy reliance on petrochemicals and petro-fuels to operate. The energy consumption for energy yield is increasingly off balance because of our declining understanding of how to nurture both people and planet.

    This is all unnecessary. Regenerative agriculture is demonstrating how possible it is to feed the world on the remaining agricultural land. The data and techniques exist; it is a matter of conversion: Conversion of minds and of practices. Regenerative doesn't only rebuild currently depleted soil by increasing SOM (soil organic matter) while producing annual yields that, when pursued in a mixed polyculture system - and especially when incorporating animals into the design - produces more nutrition per acre than "conventional" agriculture; it does so without the petro inputs or environmental destruction "conventional" ag demands.

    Furthermore, regenerative ag has successfully reclaimed partially desertified former agricultural land, which means it is a method for expanding arable land. That way leads to more food production for a growing population. There have even been successful projects to naturally desalinate desert sands in Jordan, by Geoff Lawton of the Permaculture Institute (headquartered in Australia).

    Not of least consideration is this: grass raised animals produce more nutrient-dense food. Heritage vegetables and fruits grown on truly organic, high-SOM soil also provide nutrient-dense food. And organically-grown food provides the human gut with a much richer microbial biology, which does two important things: first, it makes our guts work better, so we thoroughly digest a greater range of foods, and it naturally ends leaky gut syndrome (a significant cause of ill health). As a result, we get more nutritional benefit from consuming less food, and benefit more fully from more nutrient-dense food. Since our  bodies are after complete nutrient profiles, we can actually eat less and be better fed when we eat nutrient-dense, microbe-rich foods.

    Second, it turns out our bodies borrow DNA from the microbes in our guts in order to operate our organs: heart, brain, liver, nerve system, kidneys, etc. We simply don't have all the DNA resident in our own bodies to effectively and healthily run our own system, but are truly symbiotic with the microbial life that exists in and on us (!). The more we deplete the number and diversity of microbial life in us the less resources we have to draw on to maximize our health and vitality. For a rich life we need a rich microbial biome. In turn, that means we need microbe-rich food. And that means we need food grown in microbe-rich soil.

    Yet another fact: it's impossible to build soil organic matter without sequestering carbon from the atmosphere. (Some experts point to high rates of recent rapid desertification of once-living soil as at least as much a cause of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration as increased fossil fuel consumption; perhaps larger.) Every critter in the soil needs carbon to live and thrive. Dead soil (that is, "dirt") is, by definition, earth with very low ratios of carbon, hence it's functionally dead of organic life. The process of regenerating agricultural land (or even your suburban yard) is the process of using plants to convert atmospheric carbon dioxide into root and plant structure, which is incorporated into the soil where it serves as the building blocks for a rich and diverse soil biology. That in turn makes it possible for healthy plant growth, healthy plants naturally reduce pest and weed pressure (hence greatly reduce or eliminate the need for pesticides and herbicides that kill indiscriminately the beneficial with the malevolent). Animals roaming and grazing on fields is a core element of such a program - imitating how nature worked it all out to begin with - and food animals grazing on plants filled with the nutrients of a rich soil produce the nutrient-dense meat and fat humans need in order to thrive.

    When we have all of that going for us, we naturally eat (considerably) less in a day and experience much more energy and well-being for it. Our agricultural footprint shrinks. Imagine a world in which the richest humans - we of the First World - eat a third or a quarter of what we collectively consume now: that world is not a world short of food. Nor is it a world of such excessive consumption of medical supplies, equipment, and energy - which itself would dramatically reduce the carbon footprint of the North and West. Add in the carbon sequestration that building healthy soil requires, and we're a long way toward a better future for all humankind, according to a regime that makes for a future much kinder to all earthly life.

    Simply replacing meat with vegetables can reduce the cruelty of CAFO production, but it does not resolve the monocropping problem - rather, it exacerbates it, and therefore worsens the agriculture dilemma. Nor does it address the human nutrition needs that only meat and fat can fulfill efficiently. It is, at best, a partial response to a comprehensive problem, a response that cannot approach the benefit of revamping the entire way we think about the interconnected system that produces healthy soil, healthy plant life, healthy animals, healthy humans, and a healthy environment. We work on it all at once, or we emphasize some aspect(s) at the cost of worsening other(s).

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:35am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    11

    Tried Aquaponics like chickens better

    VTGothic.....Thanks for a thoughtful and info packed post. I hope it can start mature discussion on nutrition which cannot be looked at separate from agricultural practices. We tried Aquaponics for 2 years in a 300 gallon prototype system with the idea of going “big” ....but there were just too many moving parts.....and the likely outcome of a catastrophic failure should one component of the complex system fail. Now our new venture is chickens. I have let the first group, who are now 12 weeks old, free range. They like their house and come back periodically during the day but spend most time out and about. They are goofy and happy and get along with my black lab and me.  The second group of 40 are still in a brooder tub which used to be my 300 gallon Aquaponics tub. The living...happy....activity of my “girls” is much more pleasing than the sound of pumps and the mechanical nature of the Aquaponics.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 6:16am

    PaulJam

    PaulJam

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 04 2016

    Posts: 89

    1

    ANTIFA

    I'm simply asking for evidence, not suppositions, impressions, or comparisons.  I'm open to evidence-oriented responses of any kind.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:30am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    8

    In Other News - Vaccines Will Be Available Before We Know It Works

    This never ends well.

    Dr. Fauci Says Coronavirus Vaccine Doses Will Be Manufactured 'Before We Even Know That the Vaccine Works'

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:43am

    TLWA1879

    TLWA1879

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    Joined: Oct 11 2017

    Posts: 22

    1

    TLWA1879 said:

    Great post VT, thank you!!  The next time a friend or relative wants to discuss the latest life changing anti-meat documentary they just watched on netflix I'll point them to your post first before trying to have a difficult two way conversation with them as to what the film neglected to address.  As an introvert who must talk business all day I just don't have the energy at the end of the day to try to convey all of these points to those that are mislead and want to debate...and its very important that they get all of those points you listed, since they go together in a "natural" and sustainable system.  I'll just say "great, I'm glad you enjoyed the documentary.  CAFO's are really disastrous.  Now, please read this while a take a little nap"

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 8:31am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    4

    evidence

    PaulJam-

    I'm simply asking for evidence, not suppositions, impressions, or comparisons.  I'm open to evidence-oriented responses of any kind.

    In a court, the testimony of what a witness observed first hand IS evidence.  An account of what they saw, smelled, tasted, touched - that's evidence.

    The job of the jury is to weigh the credibility of the evidence provided by the witness.

    Long before there was video and audio, there was witness testimony.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 8:58am

    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    2

    Antifa

    Google "project Veritas Antifa" for more info

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 9:19am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    B 12

    I have to disagree with the statement that you cannot get B12 from a vegetarian diet. While it is difficult, and far easier to supplement, it is available from sea veggies and soy.

    As for Omega 3, yes fish is the best source but there are plenty of vegetarian options, including flax, chia, and walnuts. and one of my faves broccoli.

    I do agree with you on the regenerative agriculture and Joel Salatin is a good example of how listening to nature pays off in many ways

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 9:30am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 263

    3

    Hand to Hand Training

    I'm a big fan of Target Focus Training (TFT). It teaches how to do violence efficiently. It is not a form of fighting, it's not meant for chest-thumpers or to establish "pecking order" among adolescent males who've had a beer or two too many, nor is it defensive combat like martial arts. It is single-mindedly focused on teaching you how to inflict major damage in just a few seconds when it's a matter of life and death. And it can level the playing field between big men and small women, or old and young. At a minimum it gives you a fighting chance when you otherwise have none.

    I have guns and know how to use them. But...

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 9:54am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    6

    About that Project Veritas Antifia Video - Its Fake.

    LOL, yeah that's some source there Mark

    James O’Keefe’s infiltrated ‘antifa headquarters’ is a bookstore from ‘Portlandia’

    The bookstore in the undercover video has served as the backdrop for the TV show Portlandia, which features the bookstore under the name “Women and Women First.” And was closed in 2018.

    I say it on FB all the time, please fact check your sources. It takes 2 minutes tops and then you won't look misinformed when someone calls you out over it.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 10:06am

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    4

    A police officer’s view of the George Floyd killing

    I wish I had written this. I agree 110% with every single word (as do most of the officers I know).

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-george-floyd-killing-a-police-officers-view/

    To secure convictions, prosecutors must prove that officer Derek Chauvin was the proximate cause of Floyd’s death and that the others assisted him in the act.

    It was nearly 20 years ago that my first piece was published here on NRO. I described my experiences as an undercover cop circulating among the protesters at the 2000 Democratic National Convention, held that summer at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. Eager to prevent the type of bedlam seen in Seattle the previous year, when swarms of protesters extended themselves to disrupt the World Trade Organization conference, the Los Angeles Police Department and other local, state, and federal law-enforcement agencies prepared and trained in the months leading up to the DNC’s opening. The result was a success, with levels of violence and property damage a small fraction of those seen in Seattle. (Part I of my first piece on NRO is here; Part II, here.)

    Alas, memories fade and hard-earned lessons are sooner or later forgotten. So, when the protests engendered by the death of George Floyd reached kLos Angeles, the city was unprepared to follow the practices that had worked so well 20 years ago. Granted, in 2000 we were faced with a scheduled event and had months to train and stockpile the needed equipment, while the current protests arose unexpectedly. Still, events of the past several years have taught us (or should have) that proven strategies and tactics need to be rehearsed and refreshed at regular intervals so they can be implemented when circumstances demand.

    I have retired from the LAPD and am now working for a smaller police agency in the greater Los Angeles area. I was among those in my current agency who responded last weekend when the LAPD, overwhelmed by the size and geographic spread of the protests, made a request for mutual aid. What I saw, and what was reported to me by former colleagues still with the LAPD, was discouraging, but it confirmed the decision I made several years ago to leave the city where I was born and had lived most of my life.

    As it did throughout my LAPD career, the department’s current command staffconsists largely of people who have spent minimal time in patrol or other assignments that might have exposed them to actual crime and its consequences. The preferred path to promotion in the department runs through internal affairs and other administrative posts. There are exceptions, but in insufficient numbers to make a difference when large disturbances break out at opposite ends of the city, as they have in recent days. The current staff roster includes a number of men and women I knew before I retired, some of whom have now risen to positions two, three, or even more ranks beyond what their talents would have carried them to in a genuine meritocracy. This resulted in chaos as police captains, commanders, and deputy chiefs made decisions and issued directions for which their own training and experience had not prepared them.

    During my time with the LAPD, efforts were often made to prevent such people from being in charge during crucial incidents. They were relegated to positions from which they could cause little harm or compound confusion. This was not done last weekend, and the LAPD’s performance suffered for it. For example, on Saturday afternoon and evening, as officers struggled to contain looting in the Fairfax district, I monitored radio traffic from the scene in which an officer in a circling helicopter asked for more personnel to supplement the cops on skirmish lines and those chasing looters. No more officers were available, he was told. At that very moment, about 200 officers were waiting for instructions in a staging area miles away. They remained in that staging area for four hoursbefore being dispatched to the trouble zone, by which time the looting had all but ended....

    ...Turning now to the event that sparked the troubles, the death of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis police. I have spoken to many of my current and former colleagues about it, and among them there is universal condemnation of what was shown in the Facebook video that captured Floyd’s last breaths. Floyd’s protestations and those of the onlookers must have been disturbing to hear as they occurred, but with the knowledge of what followed they are deeply haunting.

    Much of my opinion writing over these last 20 years has been in defense of police officers whose actions have been misunderstood by the public, often after being willfully distorted in the media. Such was the case in 2014 when Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Mo. Multiple investigations, including one by Eric Holder’s Justice Department, concluded that Brown had attacked the officer, who therefore acted lawfully when he fired in self-defense. Despite this, the myth that Brown had his hands up when he was shot was widely embraced after it was repeated endlessly in the media and, sadly, by elected officials at all levels of government. In the aftermath of the George Floyd incident, I have often heard uninformed or purposefully deceitful talking heads invoke Brown as another innocent victim of police violence.

    I acknowledge my bias in favor of police officers, but in writing about these controversial incidents I do my best to offer a fair analysis from a street cop’s perspective. I do not reflexively defend police officers and have on occasion endorsed criminal charges when I believed they were warranted. Four years ago, I criticized (now former) police officer Michael Slager for shooting and killing Walter Scott after a traffic stop in North Charleston, S.C., though I questioned whether he was truly as depraved as he had been portrayed in the press. (Slager is currently serving a 20-year prison sentence.) And in 2017, when Minneapolis police officer Mohammed Noor shot and killed Justine Damon, who had called the police to report a possible assault near her home, I wrote, “Noor is headed to prison, and deserves it.” Noor was convicted by a jury of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. He is now serving a twelve-year sentence in prison.

    Derek Chauvin, who was fired from the Minneapolis P.D. the day after Floyd’s death, faced the same charges, though as I write this comes the news that Minnesota attorney general Keith Ellison has, as expected, amended the complaint to charge him with second-degree murder. The other three involved officers, Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas Lane, all of whom have also been fired, will be charged with aiding and abetting Chauvin.

    The video of course is damning. There lies Floyd prone on the ground, saying he can’t breathe while bystanders shout, “You’re killing him.” Through it all an oddly expressionless Chauvin keeps his left knee firmly on Floyd’s neck. And Floyd did indeed die, as the world would soon learn, so it seemed criminal charges would be forthcoming after the thorough investigation this or any killing deserves.

    No such investigation had come close to completion, and yet Chauvin was arrested and charged within days, an obvious but futile attempt to appease those calling for his head on a spike. They hoped to avoid a riot, but it’s riots they got, and then some.

    Now a narrative has been erected and universally adopted, one that brands Chauvin as a racist murderer and George Floyd as a martyr to the never-ending quest for social justice. And who would dare question this narrative, with the video of Floyd’s death as unambiguous as it is?

    But there are reasons to question it, and an honest search for truth demands that it be questioned.

    On May 28, three days after Floyd’s death, there emerged the first hint that the narrative may have been too hastily constructed and that its foundation was less than solid. The Hennepin County medical examiner issued a press release citing preliminary results from George Floyd’s autopsy. “The cause and manner of death,” it read, “is currently pending further testing and investigation.”

    This should have given a dispassionate observer pause. Surely, one might have assumed, an autopsy would have revealed evidence of the injuries Floyd had suffered and that no further testing and investigation should be required. This first bit of equivocation from the medical examiner went all but unnoticed in the media as the protests and rioting in Minneapolis grew larger and spread across the country. Later came another press release, this one containing more — but far from complete — details on why Floyd died. The cause of death was listed as “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.” It went on to list “other significant conditions: Arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use.”

    In other words, George Floyd fit the description of what is known in the law as an eggshell victim. The doctrine of the eggshell victim holds that a defendant is fully liable for injuries he inflicts on a plaintiff even if the plaintiff had a preexisting condition that made him more susceptible to being injured. But for this doctrine to apply, it must be shown that the defendant was acting unlawfully when he caused the injury. This is where things get murky and begin to escape the confines of the narrative.

    There can be little argument that Floyd had been lawfully detained and arrested before he died. Police had been called after he was alleged to have paid for cigarettes with a counterfeit bill, a minor crime that nonetheless warranted his arrest. And security video from local businesses suggest he resisted being placed in a police car after being handcuffed. The New York Times and the Washington Post have each assembled a video timeline of the events, but both leave open the question of how Floyd went from standing on the police car’s left side one minute to lying face down on its right side the next. In the New York Times video, the narrator laments this gap in the public record. “The widely circulated arrest videos don’t paint the entire picture of what happened to George Floyd,” she says. “Additional video and audio from the body cameras of the key officers would reveal more about why the struggle began and how it escalated.”

    Given the haste with which Chauvin was charged and the overwhelming media interest in the case, it is curious that the body-camera footage has not been released. Could it be that it has been withheld because it does not bolster the case against the defendants? Police officers are authorized to use force to effect an arrest, overcome resistance, and prevent escape, and if Floyd acted as described in the criminal complaint in which Chauvin was originally charged, the officers were justified in using force against him — at least up to a point.

    In the complaint, the authors of which have seen the body-camera footage, the prosecuting attorney concedes that Floyd resisted being placed in the police car. “The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of [the police car] from the driver’s side,” it reads. “Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds.”

    The same document tells us that Floyd, even as he was still standing and resisting efforts to put him in the police car, was repeatedly saying he could not breathe despite clear evidence that he could. Police officers, but few others, know that “I can’t breathe” is the universal complaint of the resisting arrestee. Police officers also know, as most others do not, that handcuffed suspects can fight and escape, especially when officers are confronted by hostile onlookers. (See, for example, this video taken last year in Chicago.)

    Defense attorneys will argue, not without evidence, that Floyd died not because of the application of unlawful force, but rather that it was his own resistance to lawful force, exacerbated by his documented medical conditions and drug use, that triggered a fatal heart attack. Fentanyl and methamphetamines can and often do bring about fatal arrhythmias even absent the type of exertions attributed to Floyd in the complaint. Yes, there came a point when Floyd ceased to struggle and should have been brought to a seated position. Was it this failure to follow what has for decades been standard police procedure that caused Floyd’s death, or did his struggling stop only when the fatal heart attack occurred? These are questions medical experts on both sides will testify about at trial, but for convictions the prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin was the proximate cause of Floyd’s death and that the others assisted him in the act. In all my years as a police officer I have never seen the seeds of reasonable doubt planted in the very pages of a criminal complaint as they have been here.

    As I wrote of Michael Slager four years ago, it is not a question of whether Chauvin and the others were right or wrong, but rather of how wrong they were. Murder is a serious charge that requires serious evidence. As things now stand, I don’t think the prosecutors have it.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 10:11am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    1

    TFT

    Most martial arts are limited by the rules they fight under.  TKD is famous for producing people with fantastic kicks, but little to no ability to use their hands - or even to see a punch coming.  I know this because I've trained with them.  Lethal feet, but you punch them, its all over.  Same for boxers.  Stay away from those lethal hands - you have to kick them instead.  And all of the strikers - vulnerable to takedowns by those BJJ, Sanshao, and Judo fighters.  (I try and stay away from such people if at all possible).  Your art's rules determine what you are able to see coming.

    Many martial arts do teach you one thing: how to deal (psychologically) with taking damage, and still continuing to function.  They also teach you distance.  How far is too far.  How far is "just right".  It just gets coded into the brain after enough time.  "That's too close."  You just know.

    I'm not sure that a few classes in TFT gets you any of that.  But if you layer TFT on top of some more standard martial arts training, I suspect it is a pretty useful combination.

    I haven't actually taken TFT, but I saw a few one-hour instructional videos, and I have a sense of how useful it would be.

    Like anything, you would need to practice it to get it down.  When you are under severe stress, all your techniques tend to reduce down to a small handful of things you know well.  There is no substitute for practice.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 10:23am

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    2

    Obviously it wasnt current

    What they were covering with the protests in the film happened a few years ago.  That is obvious, but that is still ANTIFA, they havent changed their tactics since the Berkeley attacks or the speakers they shut down and tried to shut down at that time.  The link you posted does not show that it was fake

    All the other footage, of the Ben Shapiro talk, the rioting and violence in Berkeley is not current, it is from the time when that bookstore was still open ....

    Why would you think that the antifa tactics are fake based on something you found online, caliming, the project veriats video was fake while showing absolutely no proof of it, when it is the other way, all the events shown in the video are from a few years ago, they are putting it out again now to remind people of how antifa operates

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 10:54am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5365

    9

    I'll disagree...

    thc0655...I found this to be out of alignment with my experience:

    Given the haste with which Chauvin was charged and the overwhelming media interest in the case, it is curious that the body-camera footage has not been released. Could it be that it has been withheld because it does not bolster the case against the defendants?

    From my vantage point it seems that police and DA's are very quick to release exculpatory videos but foot-draggingly slow when it's the opposite.

    Further, using a knee on a cuffed and compliant suspect is...suspect.

    I do feel bad for that rookie cop who made not one but two attempts to get 19-year veteran Chauvin to stop applying the knee.   I'm not sure how much more he could have done short of tackling Chauvin.  So damned if he did and damned if he didn't.  That's a no-win situation for him.

    And I'll disagree with the author here again:

    I criticized (now former) police officer Michael Slager for shooting and killing Walter Scott after a traffic stop in North Charleston, S.C., though I questioned whether he was truly as depraved as he had been portrayed in the press.

    Slager full-on shot a dude in the back who was slowly lumbering away.  From a traffic stop.    I cannot find anything positive to say about that.

    There are times when force must be used, there are other times when everything can be accomplished but better with deescalation.  I feel like there's a ton of room for improvement in US police tactics and I especially 100% agree with the idea that it's time to stop taking any sort of training/advice from Israelis and their occupying force mentality.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:12am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    4

    I disagree

    The one sentence reference to the Project Veritas video made no mention of its date. It was thrown out there as a "proof". We here at Peak Prosperity expect better than some cheap video from a person with a history of fakes.

    I am neither a member or supporter of Anitifia, nor a member or supporter of white supremacist so I will not try to speak for either of them. I do find it questionable that a loose coalition of left leaning protesters who are against hate speech, support people of color, support gay and lesbians, and are against Trump and far right politics are now being accused of all the looting, violence and such at protests against police brutality  by those same groups when white supremacist groups have for over a century actively targeted those same groups with violence and terror.

    You can't blame the Left without also admitting that the Right has as much if not more reasons to cause trouble at these protests. And a history soaked in blood of doing just that. What ever your experiences with local Antifia supporters you have, it seems to color you opinions to project them across everyone involved.

    I for one am growing tied of the stringent political attacks playing on emotions, supported by questionable videos and articles and not facts, that are growing on these forums. They don't seem to serve the purpose of Peak Prosperity and the people here.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:29am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    20 Questions about the George Floyd death

    First off let me say I have not watched the video. I have not attempted to investigate any of the questions. A friend sent this to me today. I am putting it out there so the PP community can look at them and maybe answer some of the questions. Question number 12 is of particular interest.

     

    Questions about the George Floyd Incident:

    1. Why does one photo from behind show the man on the road is not handcuffed and the video from the front that he is handcuffed?
    2. Why is the cop car in the restaurant surveillance video different than the one Floyd was lying behind (different car numbers)?
    3. Why were the cops in the surveillance footage that arrested him different than the police in the actual incident?
    4. Why does the video show the diesel fuel price as 99 cents instead of the regular price in the area of $2.49?
    5. Why does the Police Car have a non-Municipal license plate with “Police” on it?
    6. Why does Derek have a completely different police badge on top of a second police badge matching his partner’s if they work for the same precinct?
    7. Why is it not odd that both Officers Tou Thao and Derek Chauvin have both previously been investigated for excessive use of force and not charged by State AG Amy Klobuchar?
    Additionally, Officer Derek Chauvin is married to his partner’s sister Kelli.
    8. Is there any cop dumb enough to continue kneeling on someone’s neck for 8 minutes when surrounded by people and being video recorded?
    9. Is it possible for the deceased’s cousins and fiancé to be completely tearless during interviews?
    10. Why does the main cop have one hand in his pocket most of the time he’s kneeling?
    11. Why did the kneeling officer appear completely cool and calm, as if he was posing for the camera?
    12. Doesn’t it seem strange that Floyd and the officer that kneeled on his neck worked security together on the same shift at the El Nuevo Rodeo Club, the officer for 17 years (both were laid off because of the COVID Virus)?
    13. Why do the neighbors of this officer say they didn’t know he was a cop and never saw him in uniform?
    14. Why has the same attorney been hired as with all the other big supposed police killings of blacks? Attorney Benjamin Crump. The same attorney that worked on previous cases that resulted in busses bringing in rioters from outside the city?
    15. Why does store surveillance video shows Floyd calmly and submissively walking with the officer and not resisting arrest while the officer gently allowed him to sit down on the sidewalk, and multiple officers calmly chatting with him? Is this the kind of suspect that a police officer would feel the need to put on the ground and place his knee on his neck
    16. Why did the EMT workers (wearing Police Uniforms including bulletproof vests) roughly handle and dump the unconscious George on the stretcher? This is not how trained emergency workers lift a person with a possible neck injury. Why did they not attempt triage or try CPR?
    17. Can someone really not breathe when someone kneels on his neck and is the victim really able to speak for considerable periods of time if he can’t breathe?
    18. Post killing: Why is a white man that looks like an undercover (St Paul) cop in black and a riot gear mask carrying a black umbrella walking around breaking windows (and others dressed similarly starting fires) and instigating a riot? Is this reminiscent of “umbrella man” during the JFK shooting?
    19. Why were almost all the rioters leading the destruction of the neighborhood at the beginning of the riots “white” and not from Minneapolis… in a black neighborhood after a police killed a black man?
    20. Why did the Chief of Police make it a point that those Inciting the Riots and Arsonists were not from Minnesota?

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:06pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    4

    Does it count if a commenter "up-votes" their own post?

    It gets a bit lonely out here in PP cyberspace sometimes. I never considered that I might up-vote or "like" my own posts. While a bit self-serving, at least that way it might give the impression that someone read and even "liked" some of my comments--especially those that seem to run counter to the vocal predictable up-voting majority here.

    Just kidding/not kidding, of course. Carry on. 😉

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:13pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 126

    13

    Yes, ANTIFA is real

    I have been following ANTIFA ever since they emerged following the election of Trump. They are real and they are willing to use violence to prevent anyone whose speech offends them from speaking (anyone to the right of Karl Marx, that is).

    For instance Ann Coulter's speech at Berkeley was first cancelled by the university under threat of violence by ANTIFA and then later rescheduled and held after threat of litigation. 🙂 Yes, ANTIFA showed up when Coulter spoke and they were violent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Berkeley_protests

    ANTIFA are the PC cops carried to an extreme. They seem to be most concentrated on or near university campuses. I don't know how widespread they are across the country, but they were among about 500 protesters of a speech by Richard Spencer at my university not long ago.

    https://theintercept.com/2018/03/30/msu-richard-spencer-antifa/

    I think anyone should be able to speak about anything...so I detest ANTIFA.  I particularly detest the fact that they appear to be concentrated at universities--where freedom of speech/thinking are supposed to be ideals we cherish.

    The ANTIFA are, in fact, the very fascist thugs they say they hate.  They hate the First Amendment.  They do qualify as a domestic terrorist organization. I think it is only right that they receive that label and whatever police attention goes with it.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:17pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    4

    There, I feel better now.

    🙂

    [Seriously, this will be the only time I intentionally "up-vote" my own comment.]

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:22pm

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    4

    Re: I'll disagree

    From my vantage point it seems that police and DA's are very quick to release exculpatory videos but foot-draggingly slow when it's the opposite.

    My observation is that the difference is in the political atmosphere where these events take place.  From listening to your videos on the Honey Badger virus (especially the last dozen or so), I bet we could both wax eloquent on the failings of other professionals in our respective fields of study and experience (science and law enforcement).  I think we would agree there's a lot of room for improvement and some serious misbehavior going on in both fields.  Would you agree that's true of both science and law enforcement because both fields are packed with flawed human beings? Or would you conclude that science is not nearly as hindered by fraud, misbehavior and criminal activity as is law enforcement? I say Peak Trust is in our rearview mirror and we're seeing all kinds of flaws in everybody and everything in roughly equal amounts.

    Further, using a knee on a cuffed and compliant suspect is...suspect.

    I was absolutely flabbergasted when I learned recently that a knee to the neck of a resisting suspect is an approved technique in some situations according to the official policies and training of the Minneapolis Police Department! Nothing like that would be approved in the Philadelphia Police Department. You can be sure the officers will use that policy and training as part of their defense. Police all over the country have been trained on the dangers of "positional asphyxia," what it looks like, how it can kill, and how to avoid it. Knee or no knee, they knew or should've known about positional asphyxia and got Floyd into a sitting or standing position as soon as he quit struggling. That's why I think the whole prosecution's case will have to focus on the last 2 or 3 minutes after Floyd quit struggling and talking. If the officers had just sat him up at that point he would probably still be alive and we wouldn't be dealing with this.

    Slager full-on shot a dude in the back who was slowly lumbering away.  From a traffic stop.    I cannot find anything positive to say about that.

    The author didn't say anything positive about that, but he did mildly criticize the media's coverage of the incident and Officer Slager. There's always plenty of room to criticize media coverage of just about anything (the Federal Reserve, HCQ, etc.).

    I especially 100% agree with the idea that it's time to stop taking any sort of training/advice from Israelis and their occupying force mentality.

    You must know a lot more about Israeli training of American police than I do.  In 19 years on the PPD, I encountered exactly one training exposure to anything Israeli and that was in the last three years of my career.  This training wasn't department-wide but only for officers like myself in a small anti-terrorism unit.  I went to an all day training with a variety of expert presenters and one of them was an Israeli police or military officer (I forget which) who spoke for an hour on how to respond after a terrorist bomb has detonated in your city.  First, he warned us to be extremely vigilant for secondary devices: bombs timed or triggered after first responders and bystanders have arrived to try to help the victims. Second, he offered guidance on processing the crime scene as efficiently and quickly as possible.  Third, he offered guidance on the importance of getting the site of the bombing back to as much as normal as possible as quickly as possible.  The reason for this is that the terrorists want to cause as much disruption and spectacle as possible and you give it to them on a silver platter if the scene of the bombing is shut down and looks like a bombing for days or weeks. I was astounded to learn that they usually get their crime scenes processed and the street reopened to foot and vehicular traffic, glass repaired, painting begun, and businesses open again in 18 hours or less! There was nothing in that training like what you're talking about, so I'm totally in the dark about Israeli police training in the occupation model.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:33pm

    cindyb

    cindyb

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2010

    Posts: 41

    4

    cindyb said:

    I can reply to #13 having been married to a retired cop. Many police officers do not disclose their profession to their neighbors out of security concerns. The same goes for appearing in uniform. Some jurisdictions and departments encourage visibility, others do not.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 3:15pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 728

    1

    Regarding loss of parcel due to looting

    I should actually clarify, no my wife didnt ship the parcel - the people who shipped it should always insure valued shipments.  She just facilitates a lot of processing - she tries her best to make sure others are doing their job..   ( what i meant to say, is she pushed a valuable shipment without verifying it was done properly.  It is not her job as she has other things to worry about.

    Of further note,  the loss is not her fault or my fault as some others here suggest.   The fault of someone stealing someone else's stuff is the person stealing.. its a felony.  But, I guess i am frustrated at how many people steal and do illegal stuff on the stock exchange - SEC and governments never punishes this kind of stealing.. the housing crises and mortgage broker scams - no one got punished.. people running off whit merchandise in the droves, while police stand and do nothing.. and are more interested in non participant protesters.  IT is their JOB..    and who pays the insurance.. like somehow if its insured it makes it better?  have you seen shipping costs and insurances ?   Anyway.. to assume I am at fault more so than the person who committed the crime and the police who dont care about protecting me, is way out of line.  That is the same logic used by bad operators that make all the problems we discuss here.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:13pm

    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    10

    Yes, triggered, yes

    Please for the love of Jesus, if this place turns into an Antifa Conspiracy place, that is what facebook is for.

    I am liberal and I have never been invited to the Illuminati.  George Soros has never sent me a check.  And I don't have a secret conspiracy plan with the Jews to turn the world communist.

    I love chickens.  This liberal has spent the last week getting ready my chicken coop for the baby chicks that have hatched the last 2 days.

    This weekend, I will not be working on propagating my feminist-gay agenda.  I will instead be working on my 2nd chicken run.

    I love yall.  But I pay $30 a month here to AVOID ufo-alien-antifa-Bill Gates conspiracies.  You can get that for free on Facebook.

    (LOL, but if you do believe that stuff.  Get me the address of the Illuminati.  They have lost my invite.)

     

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:41pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    5

    against site guidlines

    taunting and making light of other members is against site guidlines and does not add anything constructive to the discussion, ie. accusing others of being conspiracy theory proponents, making fun of a real topic of concern by feigning connections with the illuminatii, etc...

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:46pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    10

    Triggered Karen

    Karen,  You do realize that many of the senior's here, including a certain namesake website owner, understand that 9/11 was in fact a false flag, right?  You are not going to purge, "conspiracy theories" from this community as we are truth seekers.  Some things are true, and some are not.  We are in business of figuring out which is which here.  If you assert that everything that the mainstream media calls, "conspiracy" is false, then you are not going to be happy here.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:46pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    10

    I'm Not Giving Antifa A Pass

    I think anyone should be able to speak about anything...so I detest ANTIFA.  I particularly detest the fact that they appear to be concentrated at universities--where freedom of speech/thinking are supposed to be ideals we cherish.

    The ANTIFA are, in fact, the very fascist thugs they say they hate.  They hate the First Amendment.  They do qualify as a domestic terrorist organization. I think it is only right that they receive that label and whatever police attention goes with it.

    Bruce, I'm not giving Antifa a pass on being a problem. Many of them come not out of the peaceful side of the Left, but from the anarchists side that wants to burn it all down.  What I'm pointing out is the completely one sided accusations that they and they alone are the ones looting, cause violence and destruction at the protests by a few here and many out in the social media verse.

    When I see a comment like this here on Peak Prosperity, up voted 11 times, it worries me greatly:

    Antifa is a domestic terrorist group. It must be crushed by law enforcement. Anyone who has participated in this criminal violence against the innocent and defenseless citizens in these communities must do serious jail time. Any politicians who have encouraged this criminal violence or have been silent in the face of it, or have failed to protect their citizens and communities, must be defeated and forever removed from any position of public trust. Any media figure or figure in the popular culture — actor, athlete, comedian, etc. — who has encouraged or excused this criminal violence should be forever condemned by the American people. There must be no excuses or exceptions for this violent mayhem and anarchy, endangering the lives and destroying the livelihoods of innocent citizens.

    When an organization perhaps a decade old (?) is getting blamed for everything, and organized, militant, criminal white supremacists groups are given no mention, then something is very wrong with the discussion.

    And I will also add, organized, militant, criminal supremacists groups of other ethnic groups as well. A good friend worked in prisons and then probations, and has infrequently discussed the underbelly of race in this country and how close we are to an armed civil war.

    The Peak Prosperity forums are not a place for such one sided words.

    ADDED:

    taunting and making light of other members is against site guidlines and does not add anything constructive to the discussion, ie. accusing others of being conspiracy theory proponents, making fun of a real topic of concern by feigning connections with the illuminatii, etc...

    There's doubting the established mainstream media story and there is pushing ill informed, biased and false stories in a post here. I hope every one of us would be willing to listen to opposing ideas about things we hold true. I suspect we have all at one time dipped a toe into a redditt thread that is so over the top that we just shake our heads. I don't want this place to devolve into that. Threatening karen with a forum guideline violation is a bit over the top don't you think, give some of the things that get said here at times? We've all embellished our posts with humor and silliness. Lighten up.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 5:03pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    5

    DTrammel... you are not winning this argument...

    Antifa is a terrorist org.  We have seen inside their meetings.  Someone brought pallets of bricks to many cities during the recent unrest.  Your efforts to create a middle ground fail miserably.. I hope Trump rounds them all up as enemy combatants.

    ttps://www.projectveritas.com/news/antifa-practice-things-like-an-eye-gouge-it-takes-very-little-pressure-to/

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 5:14pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    8

    Not a middle ground but a fair assessment of both sides

    Antifa is a terrorist org.  We have seen inside their meetings.  Someone brought pallets of bricks to many cities during the recent unrest.  Your efforts to create a middle ground fail miserably.. I hope Trump rounds them all up as enemy combatants.

    I'm not trying to create a "middle ground". I'm pointing out that some of you don't seem to find the right wing people doing much worse than you accuse Antifa of, just as much of a problem and worthy condemnation. Until you do, you're showing your bias.

    Do I really need to counter your "they are teaching people to gouge eyes" with a list of the crimes that right wing white supremacists have committed over the past century against liberal activists and people of color? We can be here all month doing that.

    ADDED: This is the type of reporting and discussion that I expect from Peak Prosperity members:

    Explainer: Who are Antifa, the 'boogaloo' movement and others blamed in U.S. protest violence?

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 5:43pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    10

    Karen...

    Karen:

    I have previously, patiently, eloquently responded to comments you have made, including the one in which your Jesus is jumping on a pogo stick. It is clear you are not a truth seeker in any way. I am not sure why you are here at PP.... Just for fun how about I flip this around and ask you to prove Jesus is not a conspiracy theory?

    As Jim said, we at PP are truth seekers. When you trot out the conspiracy theorist label, among other disparaging comments, you are calling into question the intellectual discernment and critical thinking skills of A LOT of very smart people.

    I suggest that until you are able to open your mind up to other realities perhaps you should stick to Facebook as your reading / news source. We want and need people here who are willing to participate in conversations that matter, including those that ask uncomfortable questions making us examine our knowledge and belief systems, as well as being willing to learn new things that may lead to uncomfortable truths.

    And by and large, Jesus does not get too many mentions around here either, especially doing weird shit... Next thing we know you will have him jumping on a trampoline!

    Jan 😇

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 5:56pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    1

    You are right DTrammel...

    You said,

    Do I really need to counter your "they are teaching people to gouge eyes" with a list of the crimes that right wing white supremacists have committed over the past century against liberal activists and people of color? We can be here all month doing that.

    No, we probably should not dredge up the racist history of the democratic party.  I was talking about the here and now though... and I think Candace Owens sums it up here pretty well.  I have not tolerance for the idea of white supremacy.. I am totally disgusted by racism in any form.  Candace though thinks that today, white supremacists rank pretty low on the list of problems black Americans face today;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cUQqPxw3hc

    Is she wrong or are you just virtue signalling DTrammel?

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 6:24pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    5

    At this point

    No I think she's wrong, and I think you are wrong to throw in that "virtue signalling" dig. That's uncalled for and low. At this point I will end my participation in this.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 6:46pm

    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    2

    Not all conspiracies

    It is not all conspiracies.......  Just stuff directed at anybody who does not support Trump.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 6:49pm

    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    6

    I will test the waters later

    I will see how the page goes for a few days.

    I did come here for the covid stuff.

    If it is still to hot in the kitchen, I will get out, lol.

    I hope this place stays a place all are welcome, not just right wing people.

    But I would also like to win the lottery and have a pool boy bring me drinks all day.  I don't always get what I want.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:21pm

    Bleep

    Bleep

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 54

    5

    Karen, Thanks!

    I appreciate your replies and from what I am seeing ANTIFA seems to be more concentrated around traditional liberal universities like Cal.   I have never heard about the FBI or other law enforcement organizations locating an ANTIFA training camp, but right-wing training organizations appear to be ubiquitous and have been around for decades.  When they start locating ANTIFA training camps and I am seeing good, hard data, I will pay attention ( I promise).  By the way, we have one female pullet that our oldest cat brought home for us  (we live in an environment that has lots of wild chickens) unharmed and are expecting 6 female-sexed baby chicks to arrive next week.  We are building a large coop.  How many roosting spaces will we need for 7 hens?  I spend about 1 hour per week on here.  I spend most of the rest of my time with clients or gardening, playing with pets, or walking to the coast.  I appreciate the work/life/PP balance that you appear to demonstrate! By the way, your post Yes, triggered was one of the more humorous on this thread.  Whatever side of the fence you come from it is nice to see humor here, and I have never received any funding from Soros or Gates either.  Keep the humor coming and I wish for you an abundance of eggs and healthy chickens!

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:26pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    3

    such as ?

    Since you put in a quote from my post  directly before saying this :

    There's doubting the established mainstream media story and there is pushing ill informed, biased and false stories in a post here.

    Then it sounds like you are refering to something I posted ? If I have pushed an ill informed, biased or false story in a post here, please point it out so I can correct it.

    If that is directed to another post, you were not clear.  So, what I am saying is if there is an ill informed, biased or false story, please address that in a clear way so we know what it is

     

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:28pm

    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    0

    Can you erase your account?

    Can one erase their account?  I cancelled my subscription but cant figure out how to erase my account.

     

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:35pm

    Bleep

    Bleep

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 54

    5

    Bummed you are leaving Karen, I appreciated your input.

    You aren't the only non-right-winger on here (I like Chris' Chaos vs Integrity continuum better than R vs. L. anyway).   I thought you were going to give it a few days.  Not al of us are MAGAs.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:42pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    5

    By all means stay...

    But I would also like to win the lottery and have a pool boy bring me drinks all day. I don't always get what I want.

    And that, Karen, is privilege shining through loud and clear, and exactly why we need these honest, open, painful, self-reflecting discussions.

    A couple years back I was vacationing at a Mexican resort. My companion told me (because I do not hear well), that the man at the next table had summoned a waiter with words to the effect of "hey, boy! we need some more water". I can tell you it is a good thing I did not hear it directly or I would have gotten in that guys face big time, and it would not have been pretty - for either of us I might add. But holy shit, I would absolutely have shamed that asshole in front of the entire restaurant, consequences be damned.

    I tell you this explicitly, unceremoniously, and with rage and extreme contempt: DO NOT EVER CALL ANOTHER HUMAN BEING A 'POOL BOY'.

    And to think you refer to Jesus in your comments....

    Okay, calm down Jan....

    All we at PP ask is that you be willing to learn, Karen; to open your mind to different perspectives. To allow the under appreciated trait of curiosity to roam free, unimpeded by the hold of rigid, set belief systems.

    I hope you can see the light. If not, I pity you. I hope you can ponder that while you sip your drink poolside with the pool boy at your beck and call.

    I dearly, dearly hope you can see what you have said, and how you have identified yourself as being part of the problem. Jesus indeed!

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 7:58pm

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 123

    3

    politics and religion

    I thought politics and religion were not topics for discussion here...just sayin'

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 8:02pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    4

    you have some seriously incorrect perceptions about this site and its members

    We are far more than Covid-19, Karen. That is the current prime focus, but if you took the time to explore you would find a richness and depth of (factual) information here that is simply astounding.

    Seriously, you should check it ALL out before deciding the site is no longer worth your 30 bucks.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 8:32pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    15

    The mainstream media makes everything into right vs left... it's all divide and conquer.

    I voted for Obama in 2008.  My wife at the time went to a neighboring State to campaign.  We cried when Obama was elected because we saw it as a watershed moment in US history, which in fact it was.  I grew up with openly racist parents and it was and remains my hope to live in a world of equality.  This was a step forward, or so we thought.

    Today I feel like I was lied to in so many ways... but that has nothing to do with Black or White.. is about the Globalist agenda to destroy our country, which I did not see at the time.  Members of both parties have signed onto this agenda - and literally the only thing that stands in the way is our Nationalist president.  You don't have to like him, but it's not left vs right, it's Globalism vs Nationalism.  Trump is pushing the US away from the Globalist technocracy... NATO, The WHO, weaponized immigration.  I want my kids to inherit a US with a functioning constitution.  As someone said earlier, ZERO bankers went to jail in the wake of the GFC under Holder's dept. of justice.  We still live with the remains of that system - a system where Flynn can be railroaded for nothing and made to plead guilty by dirty cops threatening to pull his son into the mess.

    I said we look for truth here.. well here's a big giant dose of truth offered by lawyer John Titus.  If this doesn't wake you up as to the degradation of the rule of law in our country under the Obama admin... then you need more serious deprogramming than I am capable of providing... and remember.. I voted for Obama.

     
    The Veneer of Justice in a Kingdom of Crime
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHgbRYgpGGs

    If you understand how the deep state works, you can see what they are setting up next.  The DC mayor is pulling back her police from the White House, kicking the National Guard out of DC hotels, and asking that the barriers be moved back in closer to the White House so protesters can get closer.  It's almost like somebody wants to create that scene where protesters finally breach the barriers and start rushing the White House, where surely mass carnage will ensue.  This video will then play on an endless loop on CNN and CNBC.

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 9:57pm

    Bleep

    Bleep

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 54

    1

    Who?

    Ran a relief project for earthquake survivors in China funded heavily by the WHO (6 figures) and saw no evidence of globalism. It was wholly directed at relieving suffering. Stop getting info from Yourube, get off your butts and talk to people out there in the non-cyberspace world!

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 10:50pm

    Bleep

    Bleep

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 54

    4

    Bullying

    Jan,  You are not speaking for me when you say "We here at PP. . ."  That sounds like bullying to me as and that your intent might be to make Karen feel like she doesn't belong here.  Something like "Our beliefs are better than yours and you don't belong here."     It seems pretty obvious that she felt bullied and you were the main one leading the charge.  How is your attitude toward her any different than her language around hypothetical pool staff?   I think Sam Keen sums up what I am trying to say better than most:

    In the Denial of Death, Becker took any reader who could bear the anxiety on a shamanic journey beneath the façade of personality where he revealed the defense mechanisms we use to construct our “character armor” in an effort to deny the terrifying awareness of our animality, the unpredictability of life, and the inevitability of our death.  In Escape from Evil, published posthumously, he went further and showed that humanly caused evil results from our attempt to deny our creatureliness and overcome any insignificance.  He unmasked the glorious claims of nations and the warfare state-the promise to provide us with meaning for our lives by giving us enemies whom we can destroy and thereby prove that we are the chosen people of God-and showed them to be a demonic form of heroism  “The horror we regularly visit upon each other comes not from any innate sadism or desire to act cruelly toward others but our desire to belong to an in-group. . .And to achieve this intimate identification it was necessary to strike at strangers, pull the group together by focusing it on an outside target. . .It is not our aggressive drives that have taken the greatest toll in history, but rather unselfish devotion, hyperdependency combined with suggestibility.”

    By identifying the false heroism of political claims of absolute righteousness-any crime is justified so long as it is for the fatherland, the motherland, the revolution, democracy, the people of God-Becker raised the question of authentic heroism.  “the most exalted type of heroism involves feelings that one has lived to some purpose that transcends one.”  Both his writing and his life force us to ask how we can achieve a sense that we are used for divine purposes, without falling into dangerous forms of self-righteousness.”    Sam Keen, Fire in the Belly  pp. 164-165

    I think it is a shame that Karen probably left the site.  I liked her humor, she seemed very down to earth - spent a lot of time building a chicken coop. I went back and read a majority of her posts. Most of them are quite humorous and having to do with her struggles with gardening, raising animals, and dealing with the pandemic. I was looking forward to hearing from her about chickens and now that possibility is probably gone.  I can't say that I haven't made the self-righteous mistakes that Keen calls out above, but I am trying to be better.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:48pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    6

    WHO

    Like any large organization, I am sure there are good people with good intentions inside WHO.  In case you have been living under a rock since Covid-19 broke, the WHO has been front and center in the attempts to suppress the life saving medication, hydroxychloroquine.  I have been a very active foot soldier in the information warfare going on in this regard, especially as it relates to outing the false data upon which the Lancet study was based.  The WHO stopped all HCQ studies under it's jurisdiction on the basis of this study whose findings flew in the face of a growing body of clinical data from around the world.  The WHO is corrupt at the top and I am glad the US has stopped funding it.  I would not have known it was so corrupt had I not seen it with my own eyes.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 12:30am

    Bleep

    Bleep

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    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 54

    1

    Aware of HCQ Studies

    I am aware of the studies and agree that HCQ has been treated unfairly mainly because Trump supports it.. I was just trying to make a point. Realistically I hope the world is more complex than being able to boil it down to Globalism vs Nationalism. Are we the only woke place in the world? I suppose Bolsonaro is a hero too? Anyone who criticizes or disagrees with This Nationalist vs Globalist dichotomy is wrong? Man, I sure hope the world is more complex than that.

    “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:11am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 205

    0

    Antifa's left turning pie

    I didn't know that "The Left" had an Antifa left. Must have made that turn while I was counting the turnings. People seem to think we've made the fourth turn and a right turn but all the talk is about how bad it would be to turn left. Personally I prefer LaMans. On the bucket list, if it ever happens again. But I'm sure people will be holding on to the their left and their right like to brothers in a nest, just in case they were to find that in the end the other was the best. And yes this is a lot of trouble for a species going extinct within a generation or two but lets not quibble.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:17am

    000

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    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 205

    0

    HCQ was treaded unfairly because of Trump Derangement?

    HCQ study was retraced

    https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/lancet-retracts-hcq-study-95194

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:50am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    6

    The Media is brainwashing our leaders.

    I see parallels between the leaders in the Medical Establishment (WHO) and leaders in CIA and FBI, and leaders in Government. They seem to be overcome with emotion to promote a cause to the detriment of following fact and truth and simple logic. My hypothesis (disclaimer: I am just a chicken coop builder and vegetable grower) is that the media by virtue of repeating propaganda day in and day out is able to successfully program the minds of our leaders. Plus....they program their own minds....where they actually begin to believe themselves. They repeat their propaganda more and more enthusiastically because their colleagues are saying the same thing.

    Also they have learned that the headline carries more weight that the retraction. So there is a tendency to put out a lie (ie. HCQ is a dangerous drug that kills people) ....reap the benefits of programming the masses, and then when the lie is sufficiently propagated, to issue a retraction.....or maybe not.

    So ...as someone who doesn’t have TV......I get my news on the internet. I try hard to look at a variety of sites....Fox...CNN....MSNBC......RT.....BBC.....PP....and others. I refuse to be programmed.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:55am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 205

    2

    I Love Dopamine

    It is at times ironic that some folks who's grand parents fought and died fighting fascism are faced with techno-hegemonic power for which we have no words. The pursuit of truth is a slippery thing. That's why I read Shakespeare; for the truth, and Mr CM & Co. for reportage, analysis and opinion. Pronouncing or looking for truth on a comments forum seems self-defeating. Too much ego. That's what my ego thinks anyway. Robot love is the answer, and of course Turnings 1-4 and left and right. [mic drop] [moonwalk stage right]

    I know a vivisectionist who has fled upon his experiments being exposed and has moved to a remote island in the Pacific Ocean to pursue his research of perfecting his Beast Folk. OK, it's Bill Gates.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 7:04am

    epicurean empiricist

    epicurean empiricist

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    Joined: Aug 09 2013

    Posts: 5

    0

    Optimism

     

    Wow, you give us a generation or two before we are extinct? (sarcasm by me). I figure we are the generation (being myself old) going extinct via global warming/resource collapse. Thanks for your writing!

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 8:24am

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 462

    7

    Oh please...bullying, really?

    Bleep: please read below the response to Karen that I took the time to thoughtfully compose (#106) on May 16th under the "Covid-19 A Result of Lab Manipulation? Suspicions Grow..." article. Does this look like bullying to you?!? I doubt Karen even read it, given her comment #192 above. I gave her a respectful invitation to explore participating here. She has obviously declined it, and will as a result, if she follows through on leaving PP, not benefit from learning other perspectives to challenge her belief system. Totally her prerogative. I make no apologies for calling her out in my comments above, especially on her use of derogatory, demeaning language.

    If you still think I am a bully after reading the comment below (which got a thumbs up from Chris I might add) then fine. If not, I would appreciate an apology for the insinuation.

    Hi Karen,

    My observation from some of the comments you have made on this site is that you seem to have bought into the mainstream narratives and have not yet taken the steps of exploring alternative world views. The one thing that can be counted on by those of us who have taken a deeper dive to learn and understand how the world really works is that when confronted with 'uncomfortable truths' many people respond by trotting out the conspiracy theorist label. I view this as an emotional reaction to information they perceive as a threat to their way of life, whatever that may be. The best response we can give is the phrase Chris was using early on in his reporting: "If the facts scare you, the problem is not with the facts".

    I had thoughts like what you seem to have when I first came to this site. I stumbled upon PP after following a link from a more mainstream site article. I was at first intrigued and mildly amused at some of the concepts being discussed. Amusement turned to amazement after following many fabulous, thoughtful, and fact-based discussions, and reading the Crash Course. My world view shifted exponentially; I felt compelled to join. It was like a light bulb turned on…

    I cannot overstate how critically important it is to be able to open one's mind to alternative viewpoints, no matter how far fetched they may seem at first glance. And to participate in discussions, learn how to cogently make points & provide data, and how to debate well. I never in a million years would have thought that 9/11 was an inside job. But after allowing my mind to be open to such an abhorrent idea, and following that extremely lengthy forum discussion with all kinds of people with wide ranging expertise weighing in and cross-referencing their posts, I was able to come to the belief that yes, that is exactly what it was. Coming to understand and accept that changed how I see the world forever. It woke me up. It enabled me to take steps to change my life for the better – something that is serving me extremely well during this virus induced crisis.

    With a rather abundant level of curiosity, it was not hard to go from the 9/11 wake up call to wanting to know more - after all, if they could do that, then what the heck else are they up to?!? The more I read the more I developed a deep fascination with geopolitics, macro economics and global finance. I am no expert by any means, but after about ten years of doing a deep dive, I am confident that I know and understand a heck of a lot more than your average person. I have family and friends who ask me why I follow these things so closely. They are the disbelievers; the people who, like you perhaps, are unable to fathom intentional nefariousness and evil. That the world is run by sociopathic megalomaniacs who do not value human life unless it can enrich them further. That, to them, we are not assets, we are liabilities.

    Their questioning of my motives is perplexing to me. Information is power. It informs decision making across the spectrum of daily living, including, as Covid-19 is showing, decisions that may mean life or death. When this all started back in January I knew nothing about nanotechnology, vaccines, Bill Gates, big Pharma or DARPA until things were mentioned in videos and discussions at PP. I sought to learn more because as much as I want there to be an effective vaccine for this virus, I need to satisfy myself that it will be safe and that there are no nefarious hidden agendas, like nano tracking chips, in any treatment or vaccine program that is rolled out. I would hope that you can agree that we all have a seriously vested interest in what ‘they’ are doing. What I have learned in the past few months is beyond deeply disturbing - far more so than anything I learned about 9/11. I have read enough from many credible sources in the alt media domain to come to believe that the virus, the responses, or lack thereof, and the dystopian things planned are an existential threat to humanity and our way of life.

    Instead of incredulous disbelief and engaging in uninformed put downs as you  have previously done, I would encourage you [perhaps libation in hand since you are being driven to drink by hoax promoters (lol)], to start truly, deeply educating yourself about what is really going on behind the daily news façade presented to the masses. If one is willing to do a bit of work, there is a whole big world out there beyond CNN, Fox, CBC, The Globe and Mail (Canada's so called national newspaper), BBC, the Guardian, and all the other mainstream news that feeds the masses their daily propaganda (as dictated by the ideologies and editorial agendas of the billionaires that own them).

    There is a great list of credible alt news website found at The Last American Vagabond – well worth bookmarking. I tried to paste the link into this comment but the cen$ors are at work again today ☹ (That, and the fact that I have that problem a lot these days, trying to post links to investigative journalism articles of interest to the PP tribe, is something that should give you serious pause for thought…)

    In closing I will repeat what I said above in #62: 'for evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.' Doing nothing got us into this mess. It sure as heck is not going to get us out of it!

    Further, we will not get out of it by remaining wilfully ignorant. Ignorance is not bliss – not in this case anyway. It is dangerous.

    Respectfully offered,

    Jan

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 8:54am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    3

    Good Post Jim

    I appreciated your post. It came straight from the heart and displayed a great deal of awakening. Not to pat myself on the back (I don't vote) I am with Chris on the idiocy of the left/right paradigm. If anyone were truly paying attention they would have known Obomba was going to win 7 months before the election. All they had to do was go to opensecrets.org and look at campaign contributions. Obomba had gotten 4x the money McCain got from Wall St. When did that ever happen, a Democrat getting more money than a Republican from Wall St. ? Also there was a point in the primaries when both Obomba and Clinton left the campaign trail at the same time for three days. It was at the excat same time that the Bilderberg meeting was taking place. Shortly after Clinton dropped out. Obomba ran a very slick campaign which actually won an Addy. Unfortunately his constituency turned out not to be the the people who voted for him but the people who paid to put him in office. Michael Hudson a brilliant economist pointed out the hypocrisy in 2011.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySwPMm0ALjA

    But more to the macro point in discussion Michael Hudson (who btw was the economic adviser to Kucinich when he ran for president) describes what he call Neofeudalism. This is exactly what we are witnessing right now before our eyes. The basic premise is that their is a rentier class who create nothing yet who control everything. This is the aristocracy and the modern day serfs are everyone else. In medieval feudalism serfswere tied to the land. In Neofeudalism the serfs are tied to debt. If anyone thinks this is not the case I suggest one look at the debt levels in this country or better yet talk to someone with a student loan. Student loans thanks to the aristocracy ( Dubya) are the only loans that cannot be cleared in bankruptcy. That is almost perpetual serfdom.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XvWoBhd7X4

    None of this is conspiracy theory. This is all observable, verifiable conspiracy fact. When one understands this simple mechanism everything the government and the Fed do makes perfect sense. There is not one aspect of society that is not under the control of the aristocracy. As was stated centuries ago, reputedly by Mayer Amschel Bauer  " Give me control of a country's money supply and I care not who makes its laws"

    I really do appreciate all that you have done here Jim. You have seriously done some heavy lifting. And the origins of the deep state are there to see for anyone who cares to read history. It functions through the CFR, TRILAT, Bilderbergs etc. They are the aristocracy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba9wxl1Dmas&list=PLg6_wjWpehvWzEXGIOA-c8Lvtw2d60rhc

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 8:56am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    Good ONYA Jan

    Good post . Carry on

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 9:37am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    2

    What a mess. :-(

    I'm going to try to put PP out of my mind today and enjoy my daughter's socially-distanced outdoor college graduation luncheon, party of 8 max. for no longer than 1 hr. and 45 minutes. Masks optional. Avoid the protests scheduled today on the main drag.

    Have a nice day, everyone.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 10:28am

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 126

    9

    ANTIFA-Bill Barr nails it

    Dtrammel, I hope you will not think I am dumping on you or anyone else. But we need to feel free to say what we think at this site.

    I don't believe nor did I say that ANTIFA was/is the source of all the looting and violence that have surrounded these protests. I believe that most of the people at the protests are acting peacefully and honestly. I honor and support them. I too want swift justice for the murderers of George Floyd.

    But there is another element that is taking advantage of otherwise peaceful protests to loot and destroy--some have a political agenda (eg, ANTIFA) and some are just opportunistic criminals. They need to be identified, jailed, tried and punished according to their crimes.

    I don't think we can or should tolerate any violence that undermines the rule of law in our society.  We give up some of our freedoms to be protected from mob rule. If those responsible for enforcing the law fail to do so, then they break the social contract that binds us to each other. How much longer before mob rule is not the exception, but "normal"?  No, no tolerance at all for destructive and violent mobs. None at all.

    The opportunistic criminals can be dealt with through normal processes. The organized, politically-driven criminals, ANTIFA and others, need to be infiltrated, neutralized and destroyed as effective organizations, just as the FBI did to the KKK decades ago.

    The US Attorney General, Bill Barr, perfectly summarizes my point of view.  His statement is worth reading.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-william-p-barr-s-remarks-mr-george-floyd-and-civil-unrest

    Peace, harmony and good vibes to all.  🙂

    Bruce

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 11:11am

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    3

    Re: Bill Barr

    Agree with you, Bruce, on the hazard of breaking the social contract.  It may be too late for that.  Us plebes go to jail or get beat, or worse.  The 1% get bailouts.  Perhaps MM's post #121 is the reason.  From BB's press release:

    When the rule of law breaks down, the promise of America does too.

    The Department of Justice is working to restore order in the District of Columbia.....

     

     

     

    That's pretty funny.  When do the arrests start?  When is he targeting Wall Street?

    I think we all would agree so many of our problems have economic origins.  No change there, no change....Aloha, Steve

     

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 12:12pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 142

    0

    Too important for just one outlet

    Can we submit it to reddit or Breitbart or politico?

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 6:39pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    Sorry Bruce

    I never agreed  to nor signed a social contract. The THEORY of a social contract was a product of the Enlightenment as a means to explain the reasons for government w/o a divine being. This had influence on the founders and thus we have the THEORY of separation of church and state..

    Government is in fact a rather recent invention in human evolution. For upwards of 95% of human existence government did not exist.  Morals/ethics are not set in stone and are cultural. In certain cultures it is moral to be a cannibal, for example.

    Currently the so called social contract is a one way street. The disproportionate number of minorities in prison, the lack of prosecution of white collar crime, the disparity in education, the list is endless. There are no "moral " avenues for many people to enforce their side of said social contract. Even here people complain about the wealth inequality and the largest transfer of wealth the planet has ever seen. This thread is about that inequality in its rawest forms. The system is designed to be unequal.

    Barr or anyone going on about "rule of law" and "constitution" blah blah is beyond laughable. It is the height of absurdity.

    Bruce Fein a constitutional scholar was recently on Chris Hedges On Contact. It is a laundry list of how invisible the constitution is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNO18dRip-U&t=57s

    I do not support the violence that has swept the country in protest of the murder of George Floyd. I am sure there were groups who took advantage of the protests to turn them into riots which had nothing to do with George Floyd. I am also sure if there was any shred of equality in ths country and a means to redress grievances this would not have happened.

    The following in my estimation is grounds for the non existence of the rule of law, a constitution and a social contract.

    IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    i think we have had a long enough train of abuses and usurpations.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 6:59pm

    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    0

    It is their right, it is their

    DUTY. When do we say enough is enough...and then what do we do?

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 8:38pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    Israeli training of US police

    If one enters a search on Google for this subject one will get 16,000,000 entries.

    Here are some.

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

    https://progressive.org/dispatches/us-police-trained-by-israel-communities-of-color-paying-price-shahshahani-cohen-191007/

    https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/the-knee-on-neck-long-a-staple-of-israel-s-occupation-of-palestine-36787

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 8:46pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 27 2017

    Posts: 175

    0

    Island girl said:

    So just curious, how the change of heart between 2008 and now? Because that is quite an about turn, but it has been 12 years, so a lot has transpired, seems you learned something about globalism that changed your world view. Inbox me if you wish and not if you don't. Don't want to break guidelines, which I believe are to be non-partisan and to avoid religious discussion.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 9:00pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    What say you THC

    https://imgur.com/gallery/tvag2gv?s=fb&fbclid=IwAR1CCy8GgvdPpBvs5jDpGqeGJGebvaSJNgbM8R5FmUKJHIg_mT378TwXz4o

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 9:37pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    I'm sorry KarenC decided to leave.

    After only four months--longer than some new members, I guess. I appreciated her posts. Sad that some of our new members (and some long term members) don't find this community more welcoming.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 10:11pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    0

    CityPrepping, "5 Signs the U.S. is on the Brink of Collapse" (6/6/20)

    Chris of CityPrepping is a nonpartisan vlogger covering preparedness topics that are applicable regardless of whether one lives in urban, suburban or rural settings. In this brief video (about 11.5 minutes) he cites historical precedent as he reviews current events that may suggest the US is on a path towards collapse.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 11:12pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    4

    thatchmo said:

    Thanks for posting the Declaration, MM.  That truly is a fine document....

    Perhaps my question, and the discussion that ensues are best transfered over to Adam's Righteous Revolution thread.  But we're here, so...

    I've posited that the bones of our government are solid, but the flesh is corrupt.  I've advocated for voting and petitioning the gov't for redress.  A number have said "forget  it, too late, never happen" etc.  So if the people were to subscribe to that view, but be willing to accept "new Guards for their future security", what form of government would that be, given our current time and place in the world?  How would a nation such as America in its current form, come up with a new system that would be paletable to most?  What would be the results of a elimination or vast downsizing of the Federal gov't?  (Hey, I'm kinda likin' the sound of that!).  Come to think of it, I guess some citizens are petitioning the gov't right now, in the streets (not counting the looters, even).  Aloha, Steve

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 3:25am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    5

    the bones remain

    I agree with thatchmo that the bones are solid, even if the flesh has been corrupted.

    While we retain just the bones of the Enlightenment (and/or the social contract) here in the US, provided to us by our imperfect Founding Fathers, even talking about such concepts in other places will result in you becoming a "forced organ transplant donor."  Assuming your organs are still healthy.  If they aren't, well, you just die in prison, following your conviction for "picking quarrels and stirring up trouble."

    Not saying there isn't corruption in the US; this whole COVID affair has ripped the cover off yet another layer of massive corruption in government, media, science, sickcare, and at all levels in between.  Whoever they are, it is quite evident that the gang allegedly in charge of "health" in the US really do not care if we live or die.

    At the same time - in America - we are still free to talk about it, without getting turned into involuntary organ donors.  And if we are free to talk about it, that allows us to educate others.  That's an opening.

    That origin story about freedom - it really does matter.  In fact, I think it is critical.  It gives us this opening.  Those are the bones.  They really are critical.

    As a result of that origin story, I do have faith that, if enough corruption is revealed, change can occur.  I think that change will be an emergent property of the fourth turning.

    That's why the gang in charge is getting ever more desperate.  You see the signs everywhere.  Things are getting more shrill, more nutty.  The narrative is fraying around the edges.  One week COVID will kill everyone and we have to be locked down, next week protests are just fine - essential activity, even.  The aggregate cognitive dissonance in society - if I could chart it - is screaming higher at an ever-increasing rate.

    This can't last.  In market-speak, we will end up with "a blow off top."

    And that's the fourth turning.  What comes out the other end of this process - I am optimistic that it will be better than what we have now.

    In this process, we can all play a part, if we choose to.   The part I've selected: to reveal truth, to the best of my ability.  I'll rely on the Fourth Turning to actually execute the change.  That sounds like I'm doing nothing.  And yet:

    "The master does nothing, yet he leaves nothing undone."

    https://www.harinam.com/tao-te-ching-verse-37/

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:15am

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    7

    Police discipline

    1. An officer concealing his/her name tag or badge number is a clear violation of policy and should be corrected by a supervisor when observed and punished if it continues.

    2. Philadelphia Police are currently wearing mourning crepes over their badges by order of the Commissioner (black bands that shouldn’t cover the badge number itself) in mourning for a SWAT Officer recently killed serving an arrest warrant on a murder suspect. It is possible to wear the mourning crepe properly so it doesn’t obscure the badge number. Supervisors inspect officers in roll call before each shift and most of the time correct these kinds of things on the spot, therefore if you see it on the street it’s because the officer made a change after roll call.

    3. Troublemakers are sometimes able to get personal information about officers (ie. full name, home address, etc) from social media or corrupt cops and use it for harassment, stalking, vandalism, etc. Cops on riot duty often use this fact as a rationale for concealing their identity during that duty which is when it most often happens. (I’ve noticed here at PP almost no one lets the rest of us know their real name and location. Is that equivalent to an officer concealing his badge number? Is your name really Mohammed Mast?)

    4. In big cities where most of the rioting is occurring even the best and most honorable cops are exhausted and demoralized. They believe they are in a no-win situation in which they are “damned if they do and damned if they don’t.” They are starting to mentally, emotionally, and physically withdraw from their duties any way they can in increasing numbers. “Injuries” requiring removal from street duty and “illness” (including Covid symptoms) requiring a stay at home are increasing. Concealing name tags and badge numbers is occurring. But the behavior that is increasing the most by far is the so called Ferguson Effect in which officers simply hide in an inconspicuous place so they won’t see any crime they have to respond to, take a long time to respond to an assignment (long enough for all but the dumbest criminals to escape), and simply refuse to act when they see a crime in progress. What do you suppose should be done about all that now that it’s a reality on the ground?

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:47am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    6

    whiplash

    I think there's also a certain amount of whiplash that the police are suffering from.

    Two weeks ago they were heroic first responders - getting sick in impressive numbers, enforcing "public safety lockdowns" by throwing people in jail for really bad crimes such as opening a barber shop, or lying down at the beach.

    Now?  Two weeks later, police are so hopelessly evil and racist, they need to be defunded.  Everywhere.  Unless they repeatedly kneel down, showing their contrition for all those bad acts that they didn't personally do.  It's called collective punishment.  And/or self-criticism.

    Like I said, whiplash.

    They will remain evil right up until the gang in charge need the next "public safety lockdown" to be enforced.  Close down those barber shops!  Then they'll be heroes once again.

    Of course, I just see this from the outside.

    Nurses & cops are the people in society who get to clean up all the crap that happens in "civilization."  Child hit by a bus?  First the cop responds, sends the kid to the hospital by ambulance, who is then taken care of by the nurse, who tries to save the kid's life.  None of the rest of us get to deal with this sort of thing, unless by extreme bad luck.  Good friend of mine works Emergency and the OR.  I get to hear stories like this often enough.  Stabbings, motorcycle accidents, car accidents.  Cleanup.  And of course, people die.

    I can't remember the last time someone died in the normal course of events at my work.  How about you?

    Cops & nurses, at the point of the spear.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:49am

    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 92

    8

    To those that seem to want the world to burn

    How many years did you spend in the military? How many times did you deploy?  War is not as seen on TV. These calls for revolution will leave a lot of good people dead. Do you really want that? Those people with a few gun and an NRA class that think they can keep out the neighbor and his buddies that did 6 tours in the sand box kicking door are sadly mistaken. This is definitely NOT a good situation. I am all for financial reforms. I am for a crackdown on police brutality again all people. I am NOT for burning the system down and starting over because guess what kids, if the system totally burns down most people will not make it through.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:50am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5365

    11

    Sorry Karen!

    I hope this place stays a place all are welcome, not just right wing people.

    LOL

    Thank you for your attempt to label this place on the left-right axis.  It's always fun to see someone try.

    However, your technique needs refinement.  1/10 on the effectiveness scale.  This place relies heavily on facts and persuasion.

    Best of luck elsewhere.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 5:33am

    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 92

    1

    Response to whiplash

    Yes. Unfortunately I can remember. Some of those things you can never forget. Also the memories come complete with not just the sights but the sounds and the smells. The smells are the worst.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 6:07am

    PaulJam

    PaulJam

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 04 2016

    Posts: 89

    0

    Amen dtrammel: Antifa

    You nailed it IMHO. Thanks!

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 6:13am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    6

    Triple the Pay and Oversight of our Police

    Over the next few weeks we will see resignations by good police officers who have had enough. Imagine getting a meager to average salary and being asked to put your life on the line by wearing a blue uniform that literally becomes a target. Imagine being ordered to stand in front of and among thousands of angry protesters who can transform at any moment into a violent ...destructive mob. Imagine being around mobs of thousands people who are potential Covid carriers and are recklessly released from social distancing and lockdown rules so that they can protest and attend funerals that only days ago were limited to 10 people.  Imagine being castigated for just doing your job, and then frantically called by the same castigators to come defend their property and their lives. Imagine being told by Mayors and media that the rioters, looters, and violent activists are correct in their actions and you are wrong.

    Pay needs to be commensurate with the difficulty of the job....The job of policing has just become two or three times as difficult and much more dangerous.  Triple the pay of our officers and triple the screening process for new recruits and all officers so that a few bad cops don’t play into the hands of the anarchists and give them fodder to destroy our nation.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 7:02am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    Thatchmo and Dave

    I guess first off I need a definition of bones. I have no idea what that actually means.

    Second, to use a medical analogy, suppose a person has metastasized cancer and is terminal but the bones are not affected, that person is going to die even though the bones are good. What to do? You have a wake and you bury the body.

    If I am to assume you mean the bones are the constitution then I suggest you watch the video I posted of Bruce Fein with Chris Hedges. Fein is a constitutional scholar, a real one. G.W Bush is reputed to have said "Don't throw the constitution in my face, it's just a damn piece of paper". Whether true or not I don't think anyone can deny that the government operates outside the confines of that document.

    Now on the subject of the founders one should realize that this country was founded by rich white guys for rich white guys. The constitution excluded Native Americans, Blacks, and women. It has taken many years to get an illusion of equality for blacks and women. (though one might argue women are more equal). The original inhabitants are still living in gulags robbed of just about everything. The original Articles of Confederation were far superior to the constitution. They ensured a loose union of independent states. Smaller entities are far easier to manage than a strong central government. The current view of this country you seem to hold is based more on myth than actual fact. The rich white guys are still in control and as Adam has stated have no intention of willingly giving up their position of privilege.

    The history taught in schools is a joke. Numerous times I have suggested reading Howard Zinn's "People's History" to get an idea of the real history of what this country is about. The myth is powerful but one has to look under the skirt to see the reality. I posted up above about this silly idea of a "social contract", so I won't waste time going over it again.

    A big part of the myth in which one hears the echo of Dubya saying "they hate us for our freedoms, is a joke. The idea that one cannot have freedom of speech in other countries is ludicrous. I have lived in other countries and criticism is alive and well around the world. According to this survey (there are many) the US ranks 17th in freedom. We may have changed a little thanks to Hong Kong. But thanks to George Floyd maybe not.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/freest-countries/

    Thanks to Edward Snowden we now know that the government knows the contents of every phone call, email, social media post etc, and they are stored in perpetuity. Does that make one free? Edward Snowden is living in Russia for telling the truth. Is he free? If I were in any number of countries I could walk into a chemist today and get HCQ no questions asked. In this country I can't and a doctor could lose his license in some locales for prescribing it. Is that freedom?

    It is only when one is able to objectively look at the facts of the US that one can then discuss any possibility of change. What we are witnessing is the end of empire. It is being hollowed out from the inside. The barbarians have been inside the gates and the looting is taking place right in broad daylight. Ben Bernanke's company, Citadel a hedge fund got more money than any other entity while Joe Dokes was grateful to get $1200. Is that freedom? This is a modern day sack of Rome. The collapse is happening and social and wealth gaps are growing daily. The wealthy are setting up shop elsewhere. Peter Thiel bought himself citizenship in New Zealand which btw is freer than the US. The Bush's have setup in Paraguay. Hell most US corporations moved offshore years ago.

    This site is devoted to preparing for this eventuality. " Collapse now and avoid the rush"  "Guns, Gold, Garden and God" have been mantras here for years. Clinging to the past will leave you in the dust. Just looking at a voting map it is crystal clear that the cultural divide is way too great to bridge. This in my view will eventually devolve into completely separate regions. California has next to nothing in common with Mississippi. New York is world's away from Nebraska. This political entity is the text book definition of unsustainable. Thom Hartmann posits that the only way forward is to revert back to tribal society. Already on these pages there are people doing just that.

    I don't know anything about bones but I do know what I see. It's a big club and we aint in it.

    There are no political solutions to the human condition.

    Enjoy the Lord's day

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 7:20am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    5

    Re. Sorry Karen

    I think the mistake Karen made is equating this thread to the rest of the site. The title of this thread is " As the world Burns." It is a topical thread. It is discussing current events. It is somewhat facile to think that this site functions in a vacuum devoid of any interest in what is going on in the world around us.

    I have not found this to be a particularly right wing site. I have found a great deal of diversity in political opinion here. There is one salient point which I think needs to be made though. This is an extremely broad and deep site  with many threads running concurrently. If you find a thread is not interesting or disturbing in some way it is perfectly reasonable to look elsewhere on the site. I do not find every thing here interesting or palatable. As a matter of fact there have been long stretches (years) where I have not read anything here. Currently my sense is that things are accelerating and the virus coverage has been beyond excellent. I have been regular here since Feb. Will I continue? Who knows but as long as I derive a value I will be here.

    For new people to the site I suggest instead of just focusing on the "topic of the day" if you have issues with it there is a wealth of info in the archives.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 8:24am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    0

    hmm

    MM-

    Have you actually been to China?   Lived there for any length of time?

    That's my only question.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 8:26am

    Doug

    Doug

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 01 2008

    Posts: 1452

    1

    ANTIFA

    I think this is a good and nuanced description of what ANTIFA is, is not and how those who claim to represent ANTIFA function.

    https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/who-are-antifa

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 9:19am

    David Turin

    David Turin

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 12 2020

    Posts: 56

    2

    SpaceX and what we get out of it

    Hey Mark_BC, I did watch the launch and I didn't see a reply to your suggestion that it was

    ...an utter waste of resources...

    I wonder if there isn't something more to this, especially if the goal is more than

    a hopelessly futile attempt to travel to and colonise the Moon and Mars, with no identifiable benefit other than to fill the egos of some ultra rich entrepreneurs...

    What is your take on the idea of having some human beings somewhere other than here, just in case, you know, something bad happens?  I'm new here and still trying to wrap my head around resilience and just what that means and what it doesn't.

    I'm also curious about the resources space offers and if we should take advantage of them, if space does indeed offer resources.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 12:40pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Hi Dave

    So I am eating lunch and have a sec to waste before I go back to work and do something useful..

    I took a good bit of time responding to you and thatchmo out of respect and civility. All you can do is come back with a snide question a junior high student might ask. FTR I actually told my wife I bet someone comes up with either "well why don't you go somewhere else" or what about China or Russia. Predictable

    But I will once again waste my time. No Dave i have never been to China nor do I have any desire to visit. Nor Have I been to Europe and have no desire to do so.   I do have a very good friend who lived there teaching English. He loved it. He told me on the macro level it was communist but on the micro level in people's daily lives it was more capitalist than the US. BTW you may wish to brush up on Mandarin because the next empire coming to your block will be speaking it.

    It occurs to me often that when someone who cannot respond to a fact based argument will resort to changing the subject. ad homs and logical fallacies.

    I lived in India for three years. I felt as free there as anywhere in the world. I lived in Costa Rica and the US does not even compare. As I stated if you would have read my post for comprehension the US is 17th. That does not qualify for best in my book.

    So if at some point you wish to engage with me again I would hope you would display just a wee bit of respect just out of human decency.

    If you should deign to do so might I ask you start with "what the hell are bones"?

    Enjoy the rest of the Lord's day

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 12:51pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    FDR and Segregation

    As fate would have it I just came across these two items. One is how FDR helped institutionalize segregation which has led to the huge wealth disparity between blacks and whites. It is a short and very succinct account of federal housing policies related to the situation we have today. Damn if history doesn't just come back and bite you in the ass.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america?fbclid=IwAR0kSJfF_wOVtCtLGHkv82GeiZzQ-uaGIpzGCaduQ1nZ2fkTiMN862KMzBQ

    This next is not something I think a white surburbanite preteen would experience.

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-28/george-floyd-central-park-familiar-terror-they-inspire?fbclid=IwAR3i3kUYvRgxTSPpkBowM0YDu3T-fkyYxp2oXhJNzIqkXLrfDTvo8KXVv4o

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 2:07pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    2

    Bones. etc.

    Just some rambling thoughts on your questions, MM.  By "bones", I was envisioning, the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration, you know, all that High School stuff which is obviously, by many opinions, dead and in the ground already.  But I'm also thinking in terms of a currently functioning system- economic and social- flawed and corrupt as they may be.  In this moment, for a while yet hopefully, that allows us to have some function as Citizens to take actions we deem worthy of our effort.  We, mostly, have food, shelter, and energy.  For now.  Petitioning the gov't: I'll assume it was gov't entities that set term limits for elected officials, establishment of the Fed, rules dealing with lobbyist activities, election funding laws, and may other myriad obscenities.  I'll assume proper pressure by Citizens might correct some of that.  Citizens United might need a different approach....A goodly number of people are hitting the streets- voila!- Congress writes a new Law enforcement bill in a few days (for better or worse- time will tell).  But you tell me my request to emplore millions of "idle" Citizens to take a few minutes to petition their critters is a useless waste of energy.  I get it: your experience and gathered information has, from what I can tell, caused you to give up on our Nation/gov't. and call it quits.  Your choice, nothing wrong with that.  I'm writing this not to convince you, but to help myself sort out my thoughts (sorry PPers!).  I'm certainly preparing for the worse, myself.  I also keep in mind the comments of other prominent folks that indicate that the 1% are also getting worried about present conditions of the 90%.  Perhaps that will help sway things to the better.  Deep State?  Who knows?  Appreciate your posts, hope you had a good lunch.  I'm off to work....No one knows the future.....Aloha, Steve

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 2:20pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    4

    Good ol' Plato...

    "If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government,

    then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools."

    Aloha, Steve.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 2:31pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    1

    Further along...

    I've clarified my comments, hopefully.  So if you please, what are your thoughts on replacing our current situation?  Feral/Tribalism?  Something else?  Respectfully, queryed.  Aloha, Steve.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 2:46pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    0

    Wealth of PP information in (buried) in the archives

    For new people to the site I suggest instead of just focusing on the "topic of the day" if you have issues with it there is a wealth of info in the archives.

    If you can locate this admittedly rich source of information. I understand that Adam and Chris are working on some site upgrades that will take some time yet to implement. Yes, there are the tabs above to "The Crash Course" and "Resilience". But in our new members' defense, this wealth of information is difficult to locate in any organized or logical manner.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 3:20pm

    Mountains are calling

    Mountains are calling

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 28 2020

    Posts: 1

    3

    Buried Archives - Help!

    Hi - new member here who is very thankful to have stumbled on this site.  Back in January I could not figure out why the WHO was stalling on information...well my perception and faith in the WHO and a lot of other systems was confirmed by the wealth of data found on this site.   For that I’m grateful.  I’m waiting patiently for site upgrades only because the content here is so good.  I did plant a garden several months ago, but even finding the information on this took time within the site (and this was with Chris “pushing” the idea at the end of numerous videos).    Thank you for all you do #imafan

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 3:24pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    5

    I find this sad.

    Time for a victory lap among the faithful "remnant"? Somehow I find this whole episode sad, and we've lost yet another member. Well, good riddance--right? Karen apparently wasn't "like-minded" enough, and therefore certainly not salvageable as a member of the PP community. Look through the threads and you'll see other PP members have cast issues and their opinions in the left vs. right paradigm without the kind of push-back that KarenC received.

    There are other, more productive and compassionate ways to communicate about differences of opinion or transgressions of the PP rules and guidelines (which seem to be unevenly applied at times), rather than piling-on a member of the PP community and giving them a nice "burn" on their way out the door. Way to go!  🙁

    (((Group hug!)))

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 3:29pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    7

    We heard you the first time Sparky

    Did you really need to make two posts about this?  Really?

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 3:43pm

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    3

    “I can’t breathe! I can’t breathe!”

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 3:55pm

    DennisC

    DennisC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2011

    Posts: 183

    2

    Good ol' Ralph Waldo Emerson too

    Res nolunt diu male administrari.

    In his essay regarding the law of compensation:

    This law writes the laws of cities and nations. It is in vain to build or plot or combine against it. Things refuse to be mismanaged long. Res nolunt diu male administrari. Though no checks to a new evil appear, the checks exist, and will appear. If the government is cruel, the governor's life is not safe. If you tax too high, the revenue will yield nothing. If you make the criminal code sanguinary, juries will not convict. If the law is too mild, private vengeance comes in. If the government is a terrific democracy, the pressure is resisted by an overcharge of energy in the citizen, and life glows with a fiercer flame. ~ from Ralph Waldo Emerson, Essays, First Series, 1841, Compensation

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:34pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    14

    PP culture

    Sadly, PP is going through a phase in which it appears that a bloc of "voices" make it difficult--intentionally or unintentionally--for "others' " voices and/or new members to feel welcomed, let alone to be heard and taken seriously (if not met with outright hostility). PP has thousands of new, diverse visitors and members from Chris' YT videos and other social media. But what do they find when they come here?

    Sure, there are a few bothersome site navigational and functional limitations that are apparently targeted for upgrades in the next several months. And there are plans for expanded content that may appeal to long-term and newer members alike. But more problematic is the culture of PP. From my perspective and from several public and private comments I've read, the culture of PP at times feels unwelcome, even hostile for some.

    I know how exhausting and time consuming it is to continually suggest, debate and/or defend an "alternative" or "minority" perspective to the majority within the PP community. Granted, I've been here only since 2016 so I may not yet have sufficient "creds" as those who have been here (and bonded) over a decade or so.

    IMO, the current PP community culture discourages alternative perspectives from the prevailing (or most vocal) worldview, and we as a community are the poorer for it. Some may celebrate this as winnowing the "chaff from the wheat" (i.e., "remnant"). I hope we can work through this as a community as the implications for failure are very disheartening for PP specifically and for society overall.

    It is really, really hard to go up against some very bright, articulate, seasoned and otherwise caring PP members who nevertheless appear to be culturally obtuse or intolerant. (Oh yeah, I'm sure I'll be even MORE popular for that statement.... Lol, No "thumbs-up" for you, Sparky! )

    As a case-in-point, I've recently grappled with how a long-term esteemed PP member who posted a wonderful, insightful and informative comment with lush photos of his garden, beautiful wife and daughter standing happily in a greenhouse on one thread, can post a photo on another thread of Fed Chair Powell w/a comment in effect of [paraphrasing here] that he was gonna "f*ck the economy so hard it'll inflate bigger than K.Kardashian's a** when he's done with her!" That comment received at least one up-vote from another long-term, respected member before it was quickly removed by Adam. Notwithstanding the blatantly misogynistic, violent and offensive aspects of the post, I was further astounded at the ability of the PP member--who I really like--to compartmentalize these completely disparate perspectives. The commenter's response once moderated was "win some, lose some", indicating NO understanding of why this post was a "problem".

    Similarly, I'm troubled by how tactical instructions for a violent "turkey shoot" vigilante response against SNAP beneficiaries and other hungry citizens can receive 12+ "likes" from other PP members. (Source) [Update: At least two members have since apparently rescinded their vote.]

    Note that my brief comment entitled "Police brutality and murder are crimes regardless of race an gender" garnered only three up-votes. Apparently in this instance the PP community largely choose to remain silent regarding this most basic civil, legal and moral construct regarding authoritarian brutality and murder. Maybe people were just busy. Maybe the thread was too dense and long. Maybe people genuinely disagreed with the statement. Maybe it was because Sparky1 posted it, therefore it was dismissed outright due to the messenger not the message. Regardless, I found this concerning on many levels. Its not about popularity, its about conformity and a herd mindset.

    Apparently I'm more "likeable" if I post about safe topics such as chickens and raised beds and PPE, but less so or not at all "likeable" if I post my concerns about socioeconomic and racial disparities.

    Consider that we may be dealing with demographic, socioeconomic and generational differences that are shaping the growing tensions here on PP. These differences may be more pronounced given escalating worldwide social. economic and political tensions. Adam posted more detailed information and graphics from the PP/Azurite survey of PP users/members that are interesting and may reflect some of those differences.

    Identifying with and belonging to a "tribe" of "like-minded" people is comforting and empowering.  On the downside, a "tribe" tends to rout out those that are different, those "other", non-conforming, minority individuals among a majority group that, in the case of the PP community, ironically prides themselves on being non-conformist, independent, data-driven truth-seekers.

    I've been uncomfortable at times when I read comments that seem to reflect a kind of "groupthink" lack of tolerance or piling-on, or "cultishness" seeping into some of the posts (e.g., "I would die for Chris.")

    Recently dtrammel was accused of "virtue-signaling" by JimH regarding dtrammel's views on maintaining a "fair assessment" of the raging topic de jour, Antifa.  Seriously??  Dtrammel, "virture-signaling"???

    Note in JimH's subsequent comment he stated, "we probably should not dredge up the racist history of the democratic party", and followed-up with a comment disparaging the MSM's penchant for polarized left vs. right reporting, then lauding "our Nationalist President" Trump as being the only thing standing in the way of a Globalist technocracy. While it appears to be acceptable to refer to former President Obama as "Obomba", I doubt an alternative reference to President Trump as "Bunker Boy", "Narcissist-in-Chief" or any of the other unflattering names that permeate social and MSM would be tolerated without push-back from some within the PP community.

    Given the pervasive PP culture, "minority" views and number of participants may diminish, while the overall site and number of PP viewers and subscribers may become larger--at least for the short term. Consider that a large monoculture lacking diversity of organic inputs is not sustainable over the long term.

    I've detailed my concerns and perspectives via PP public and private posts, and more recently with Adam via phone conversation. I'm looking for and willing to do my part towards finding productive in-house solutions, content and discussions. Of course, I can always "take a break" or leave PP at any time, but quite frankly, I'm "invested" in this imperfect community and yearn for its success.

    I hold out hope for positive change and understanding. At least for now.

    These are difficult conversations, but I remain faintly optimistic that there can be greater understanding and benefits to be gained from having civil, respectful, balanced discussions with intelligent, caring people within a given community. However, it is obvious that the tensions are becoming more pronounced as we (w/in US especially) weather a pandemic, civil unrest, economic collapse and election-year kabuki simultaneously.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:38pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    3

    I wouldn't post if I didn't care.

    Yes, I do "need" to post two and now a third comment (above) as I believe this is a symptom of a larger problem within PP. I wouldn't bother if I didn't care and hold out hope for positive change.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 6:11pm

    skipr

    skipr

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 09 2016

    Posts: 195

    1

    a coincidence?

    There was another umbrella man in Dealey Plaza during the JFK assassination.  A coincidence?

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 6:35pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    Thanks Spark

    i appreciate your post though I disagree with it in a number of ways. It takes a lot of effort and thought to put all of that out there.

    You may have seen that I started following this site (actually Chris Martenson.com in 2007. I didn't participate and was awol quite a bit but this site is far tamer and more welcoming than it was in the early days. There were some good ol flame wars going on. I remember a member named cloudfire, boy was she a pistol. There were a good many "characters" and Chris had to step in personally many times. Of course there was some really great exchanges as well.

    I think you have to keep in mind that these are volatile times as it was back in 08/09. This brings people's emotions more to the fore.

    As for Karen she admittedly came here for the virus coverage. Well she had issues come up when Chris went to 2 per week and things heated up socially with George Floyd. As I said earlier, there is a great deal of material and there are also forum topics to peruse. It is also not necessary to come here everyday. Nor is it realistic to come here and have all your wants needs and desires met.

    As fo Granny, well I stayed out of that one pretty much. I did on several occassions ask her direct questions to help me understand her point. She never once responded so to say nobody addressed her issues is way out of the ballpark. She was way out of line on that Market thread and completely derailed it. For no reason other than to grind her own axe. Admittedly I was gone for a lot of the time in the past but I never got much useful information either actionable or educational from her posts. So bottom line for me I really don't miss her.

    People come people go people come back. You do what feeds your needs at any given time. This site is what it is and Chris and Adam owe no one an apology. They work their asses off. BTW I can go to the archives and in a matter of minutes find all kinds of interesting stuff.

    Hope you enjoyed the Lord's day

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 6:47pm

    skipr

    skipr

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 09 2016

    Posts: 195

    2

    as the world REALLY burns

    To me it seems like PP throws a few ecological bread crumbs out there to appear balanced and then falls back into the money money money mode.  Here's what the REAL "as the world burns" will look like:

    https://voiceofaction.org/collapse-of-civilisation-is-the-most-likely-outcome-top-climate-scientists/

    Just multiply what's in the news right now by a million and you will get an idea of what's really in store for all of us bio-degradables.  I'm not talking about one particular species either.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 7:53pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    Thatchmo

    Thanks for the response and clarification. As far as I am concerned and have been for over 50 years the bones are bleaching in the sun.

    As for Plato that was when there was a direct democracy and everyone could vote on issues. Not applicable here. But taking an interest in government has not limited the fools nor has it done anything but make the rich richer and the rest of the world a dangerous place. We do supply most of the weapons in the world. So that quote while catchy is a non starter.

    As for solutions? Why bother? I am not a billionaire and can't buy a Senator. No I take care of my sphere of influence and look forward to the day when the entire fascist empire house of cards comes tumbling down. I also get that is not a popular position here. It is easy to overlook the egregious behavior of this government when you are white middle class or better and have and are enjoying the fruits of empire. But the residents of Pine Ridge and the barrios and Camden and Detroit know what this is all about.

    It will end . Suddenly? Maybe. Drawn out? Perhaps. I have been preparing for 52 years as best I can. It will probably shake out tribally/ gang.

    Hope you are enjoying the Lord's day in paradise.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 8:26pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    13

    Truth is not relative

    Sparky wants this place to be all things to all people.  We live in a sea of propaganda and many of us come here to do the hard work of figuring out what is true, and what is not.  It's messy business.. the kitchen can get very hot, and I am certainly not here to be understanding with those who would argue that office fires melt steel, or with those who would present apologetics for Antifa.  I would sooner listen to the voice of a writer who had his brains bashed by Antifa not far from where I live;

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2020/06/01/antifas_insurrection_has_been_decades_in_the_making_512820.html
    Antifa’s American insurgency

    The far-left has perfected the art of rioting

    Andy Ngo

    From where I sit I see forces at work trying to destroy the fabric of my country.  We are in the midst of an information war - I have tried my best to be part of the team here opening a portal into that war with regard to HCQ.  The HCQ deception is just one small part of a much bigger, ongoing and constant, deep state action against the current administration, and in fact against anyone who would get in their way.  Tulsi Gabbard sure looked like an honest and sensible candidate... does anyone wonder why she had to be destroyed?  She was clearly beyond compromise.. she had integrity.  No good.  She was Up on the Up/Down scale.  She had served her country.

    Epstein was a compromiser .. that's what he did.  He performed compromat.  Washington DC is all about blackmail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397161/DOJ-demands-Prince-Andrew-available-questioning-links-Jeffrey-Epstein.html

    We live in a world of opposites.  The mainstream media tells us Assad used chemical weapons on his people because they wanted us to support the destruction of Syria.. another sticker on the helmets for the Neocons.  These were lies.  I voted for Trump because I wanted the wars to end.. so far so good.  This is factual... no wars.  This is not politics.. this is what is real.  We have not wrecked any countries in the last three years... in fact we have de-escalated with North Korea, which was demonstrably a deep state puppet prior.

    The mainstream media wants the average person to equate me, through extensive and ongoing NLP, with a Nazi because I happen to be white, and I happen to be an anti-Globalist.  The mainstream media wants the average person to believe that I am a quack conspiracy theorist because I know that steel frame buildings don't fall down due to normal office fires.  Sparky wants this to be a safe space for people under the spell of the mainstream media..  there are plenty of safe spaces for those people elsewhere.

    BTW, my wife cut the wings down on our chickens... I didn't even know that was a thing.. but I guess they won't jump the fence now.  So yeah, I have chickens too.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 8:34pm

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 112

    2

    Redneck Engineer said:

    Speaking of Andy Ngo, here's a detailed interview with his attorney, Robert Barnes. The first half of the interview is largely about civil rights, an area he's practiced for > 20 years, and issues surrounding Ngo and his run-in with ANTIFA, as well as discussion on the ongoing protests and riots.

    https://www.georgegammon.com/robert-barnes-interview-civil-rights-attorney/

     

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 9:28pm

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 112

    10

    ANTIFA / Left-wing danger

    One reason to be concerned about ANTIFA and related groups is the history of similar left-wing groups during the cold war. These were mostly fronts for Soviet psyops to undermine American institutions.

    "Russian GRU defector Stanislav Lunev said in his autobiography that "the GRU and the KGB helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad," and that during the Vietnam War the USSR gave $1 billion to American anti-war movements, more than it gave to the VietCong,[19]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_influence_on_the_peace_movement

    The modern Marxist/Maoist groups, including ANTIFA and groups like Red Guard, have as their goal the destabilization of America. Their choice of targets for violence has been listed as: large corporations; police departments; and churches. All three have been targeted in the recent riots.

    Is the violence spontaneous, or the result of opportunism on the part of these ideological groups? I think the choice of targets is revealing. The businesses most targeted, as I could tell from the media, were large companies (Starbucks, Nike, Target) and high-end merchandise stores (Rolex, Mercedes, Coach). As with other riots (say, 1992 L.A.), local businesses owned by minorities suffered greatly, and that's happened to a certain extent this time, too.

    The biggest differentiator, though, is the targeting of churches. Why go after them? Demographics show the African-American community is very religious. If this were a spontaneous outbreak of violence over racist cops, why attack a church?

    Attacking churches - a cultural center for many - is more in keeping with the leftist attack on American institutions.

    What about COINTELPRO? What about agent provocateurs or false flag operations? Those have happened in the past, and may happen again. But we need evidence that it's happening in this specific case. The general capacity for something does not imply that it happens in any specific instance. Until I see specific evidence for that, I look at the evidence I do have, which points to left-wing ideological groups seizing the opportunity to turn protests into riots.

    I think it is a grave mistake to minimize the danger these groups pose. If they have broader support, it takes only a few violent actors to tip the scales. Recall the early years of the Nazis, when their influence was dismissed because they scored such a small fraction of the German vote. But they had their brownshirts, a relatively small group initially that was willing to take to the streets. They were pawns in the game of the politicians, much like ANTIFA is likely to be.

    This evening, it looks like Minneapolis will disband its police force. What are the political views of the city council? Of their congressional representatives? Would they not benefit from this? A number of these politicians, activists, and violent groups are quite open in their views.

    I should add that I'm aware of the danger from far-right extremist groups, but they are much less of a threat precisely because they are so widely unaccepted. As someone once put it: if you want to know who's in control, look at who you can't criticize.

    What attracted me to PP were the COVID-19 coverage, but for far longer, the deeper discussion of economic topics. At some point, the economy has to collapse. I thought it was happening in 2008, yet here we are. Is this the collapse? Hard to say. I've been wrong on this for 12 years, so I'm looking very hard at the data of all kinds. One kind of data is social unrest. If this were a spontaneous uprising, it would indicate we are further along the road and closer to collapse. But if it isn't spontaneous, if it is a hostile action, that's something else. (That may also accelerate the decline, though.)

    I've found online discussions of politics to be largely fruitless, generating far more heat than light. But in this case, identifying the nature of the protests riots is not a matter of idle conversation. It has direct bearing on the path this country is heading down.

    I agree with what many have said here and elsewhere about the false narrative of left-right. It is a useful tool for oppression to scapegoat others, to divide the population along certain lines, and have politicians spout empty slogans to one side or the other, posing as their champions when in reality just wearing a different team jersey.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 9:30pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    0

    Strength in numbers

    Hmmmm.  OK, not much new or compelling there.  I think Plato's idea requires a majority of citizens to be interested.  That's why I have proposed the actions I have.   Thanks for the response.  I guess I'll be taking my thoughts on this back to the Righteous Revolution thread.  Aloha, Steve.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 3:18am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    3

    MM, YW and my response re: PP culture

    You're welcome, MM. I appreciate your comments and the collegial spirit in which you've provided them. I've responded to your specific points below.

    "I appreciate your post though I disagree with it in a number of ways. It takes a lot of effort and thought to put all of that out there."

    Fair enough. Thank you. Likewise, I appreciate your thoughtful and articulate comments MM, even though I may not always agree with them.

    "I think you have to keep in mind that these are volatile times as it was back in 08/09. This brings people's emotions more to the fore."

    I agree, but 08/09 was "just" the GFC. Today we have multiple, escalating crises happening simultaneously as noted further in my post. IMO, this makes having civil, respectful, balanced and productive conversations more important than ever.

    "As for Karen she admittedly came here for the virus coverage. Well she had issues come up when Chris went to 2 per week and things heated up socially with George Floyd. As I said earlier, there is a great deal of material and there are also forum topics to peruse. It is also not necessary to come here everyday. Nor is it realistic to come here and have all your wants needs and desires met."

    Yes, hundreds even thousands of people have gravitated to the PP site as a result of their initial awareness and interest in the Covid-19 information on YT and other social media platforms. This represents a great opportunity to expand and energize the PP community.

    I didn't see where Karen had "issues" when Chris went to two YT videos/week. I reviewed recent threads for any "issues" she had concerning the Floyd death and I couldn't find any. (Perhaps you can provide links?)  She did, however, make statements doubting veracity of certain "conspiracy theories" (e.g., Bill Gates/vaccines/"chipping", and Antifa). She also referenced Jesus in two comments in humor that prompted sharp, disapproving responses both times from WCJan. IMO, Karen was entitled to her views, however unpopular here on PP re: conspiracies. And yes, invoking the name of a religious figure in humor is likely to offend some members and may run afoul of PP forum rules and guidelines.

    Karen was interested in and found content (e.g., chickens) other than Covid-19 on the site. Karen posted only 93 comments in her four months with PP. To my knowledge, she never expressed that she wanted to or did visit PP daily. Of course it is not reasonable to expect PP to meet all of one's wants, needs and desires. Could you please provide the link in which Karen stated that expectation? I couldn't find one and I don't recall her making any such statements.

    "As fo Granny....She was way out of line on that Market thread and completely derailed it. For no reason other than to grind her own axe....I never got much useful information either actionable or educational from her posts. So bottom line for me I really don't miss her."

    I didn't mention AKGrannyWGrit in my post above. However, IMO there are some PP members that seem to have "axes to grind" and they appear to be well-tolerated or applauded by others. Please see the "Market Update: Comforting Lies" thread for my comments and views specific to Granny's situation.

    It seems that when I raise this issue of balance, herd behavior and intolerance of the "minority" view it is invariably personalized, which prompts an immediate predictable positive or negative reaction from certain PP members. It seems that some PP members have difficulty separating the message from the messenger. There are instances in which members (such as Karen) who question the prevailing narrative and/or established "seniors" in the tribe are unwelcomed, chastised, pushed aside or out. ("...you will not be happy here." JimH; "It is clear you are not a truth seeker in any way. I am not sure why you are here at PP....perhaps you should stick to Facebook as your reading / news source." WCJan.)

    "People come people go people come back. You do what feeds your needs at any given time. This site is what it is and Chris and Adam owe no one an apology. They work their asses off. BTW I can go to the archives and in a matter of minutes find all kinds of interesting stuff."

    Yes, people come and go according to their interests and needs. Maybe a survey of former PP users/members would provide insight into why people come and go. If that is, in fact, a concern of Chris, Adam and/or other PP members. It seems that Chris and Adam do a lot of work to drive people to the PP site. I think their intention is that visitors would find the PP site and community a good "fit" and want to stay and become long term paying subscribers.

    It might be helpful to understand who exactly is the intended target audience for PP. If the target audience matches the current PP user/member profile identified in the PP/Azurite survey, then that audience is predominantly white (??%), American males (65%), age 56 and older (61%), married (66%), with a bachelor's degree (43%) or higher (32%), slightly to very conservative (56%), with annual income of $100,000 or more (41%), and working full-time (81%).  Does PP want or envision a more diverse population to build a "world worth inheriting"? Are there other perspectives or interests currently not represented or under-represented on PP that might be worth considering?

    I agree that Chris and Adam work tirelessly. (Who says they don't?) I agree that they don't owe anyone an apology re: PP site offerings and functionality. My understanding is that they are always working on improvements, which I and so many others appreciate very much. The search function has improved a bit in recent months. But it and the Forums still lack capacity to produce complete results in any organized manner according to date and topic. I'm glad you're able to find interesting content in the archives. (Is there a tab or link to an archives section?)

    Thanks again for your comments, MM. I hope this clarifies my concerns regarding PP culture.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 3:47am

    Rootman

    Rootman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 09 2020

    Posts: 73

    2

    Antifa left wing?

    It is rather questionable if antifa should be called left-wing, even if they would call themselves like that.  Their origen is Trotskyite, and even as he originated as a bolshewist, his following nowadays can be found both in extreme right- as wel as left-wing circles, as well as in the neocon deep state.  These people (?) have no problem at all switching from left to right and back.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 4:32am

    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 266

    5

    "come here to do the hard work of figuring out what is true, and what is not"

    This "PP culture" issue and  discussion was bound to come up eventually with the big influx of new people from a broader section of the milieu.   Success (usually determined financially) in an internet business often leads to a change in personality or direction, most often due to a business manager making decisions to optimize income.  This place has become a little uncomfortable due to the change in emphasis towards politics.  I used to read comments in PP to gain insights on truth, but all this crap about Antifa and who is left who is right etc. is pushing me away.  I don't have time to spend adoring the low spark of high heeled boys.

    We have facebook, and tons of public spaces to scream, strategize, plead, discuss, argue, pronounce, teach, learn, proclaim, suggest everything we want to about pro trump, anti trump, Putin, Xi, Abraham Lincoln, Mohammad, Jesus, whose lives matter etc.

    Something like 95% of all people are incapable of living a life ruled by reason, wherein "figuring out what is true, and what is not" is a main activity.  Only a small portion of people can do this and PP, until now has been a refuge, and for me, the only place I know of  where such minds can come together.  (if you know of another please tell me) Perhaps Chris and Adam will go with the flow and allow the "matrix to resorb" their hyperspot (sorry cant think of a better phrase).

    I hope to have direct email contacts with all of you long time members and recent members who " come here to do the hard work of figuring out what is true, and what is not."  If this site gets taken over by those who come here for other things, then we can continue somehow somewhere else.  Perhaps we can make our own site or find another one.
    This is a healthy issue, a healthy dilemma for the site originators to have.  Good for them.  At a minimum this allows a bifurcation or addition of a more focused section.  Perhaps the "member's only" section might become a place where only rational truth seekers inhabit.  How would you do that?  Also, many people are unemployed and/or otherwise unable to pay the hefty members fee to join in the member's only section every month.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 6:39am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    4

    no shared context

    MM-

    I asked you the question about China to clarify and make sure, not to suggest you go there.  It was my best guess you hadn't actually had to "eat the dog food" of speech repression, but I wanted to make sure.  I didn't want to assume.

    Sounds like you've been to a lot of places, all of where you were able to speak your mind.  They all sound wonderful, and a good fit for your personality.

    Some places - I've lived in them - are not nearly so free.  You get serious jail time for speaking out on forbidden subjects.  You really have to watch what you say.

    As a result of my experience, there are things I really value that you seem to take entirely for granted and/or ignore.

    Since you've never had my experience, it is unlikely that I can convince you of just how important such a freedom actually is - in social dynamics, in culture, in everything.  You just haven't lived it.  That's fine, but it makes debate pointless, because there is no shared context to have a discussion.  That's why I asked you that one question.

    I'm sure you know - there's a world of difference between hearing about something your friend did, and experiencing it for yourself.  The human experience is full of examples of this.  I'm sure you can think of a few.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 7:37am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    3

    Where is Antifa Coming from?

    I would love to learn more about this.    Rootman wrote:

    It is rather questionable if antifa should be called left-wing, even if they would call themselves like that.  Their origin is Trotskyite, and even as he originated as a bolshevist, his following nowadays can be found both in extreme right- as well as left-wing circles, as well as in the neocon deep state.  These people (?) have no problem at all switching from left to right and back.

    Can you point us to some reading material on the origins of Antifa (either in this thread or private PM)?

    I have had the impression that the demolition of the US and Western society qualitatively feels (at an intuitive level) similar to 9/11, the Patriot Acts and the surveillance infrastructure.  I suspect that it is all coming from the same, or a very similar, sources.   Both the mixing of diverse racial and social groups and the fanning the flames of conflict between the groups.  It all feels familiar.

    I would love to know what you are seeing here.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:30am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    2

    How to apply journalistic slant, by Sparky

    Take a statement like this;

    If you assert that everything that the mainstream media calls, "conspiracy" is false, then you are not going to be happy here.

    And turn it into this;

    ..... you are not going to be happy here.

    Sparky, the whole reconstructing of who did what, who said what is starting to creep me out.  It's your right to do it, and my right to criticize you for it.

    As with Sandpuppy's comment above, I think that Antifa needs to be discussed and better understood.  Are they some kind of shape shifters?  I am immediately suspect of what Antifa is when I see how the mass media is covering for them... the mass media being the voice of the Globalist/CIA project mockingbird deep state;

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:31am

    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    6

    sp

    Agreed. It all feels too organized.

    I have an acquaintance with a brother on the Detroit fire department. The story from him, from watching the street cameras from a command center, was that the most violent of the protestors were from out of town and clearly schooled in "protest" tactics. Measured response to tear gas, flanking the advancing police line to attack again, etc.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:37am

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 123

    1

    Take a minute and breathe

    Wow, lots of opinions here--and you know what they say about opinions.....

     

    "Don't be afraid to have an open mind.  Your brain won't fall out."

    -Nick Russell-

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:40am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 180

    0

    Hefty members section fee

    Agreed ... the hefty members fee is a bit much to be monthly.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:44am

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 123

    1

    Organized--but by whom?

    We need some research into finding out which and how many groups are 'helping' demonstrators become rioters.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:45am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 180

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    Regarding Antifa

    There is some interesting information in this video from a civil rights attorney regarding Antifa.  They are not interested in "changing" the system.   They want to abolish/burn it down and start over.  Smart cookies who use protests to their advantage to create disruptions, distractions and violence.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 9:11am

    Doug

    Doug

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    ANTIFA

    I cited this above, but apparently neither you nor anyone else here actually went to the link.  Given your apparent desire to do so, I will cite it again.

    https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/who-are-antifa

    It's important to note that there is no organization called Antifa.  It's a bit like saying the anti-war movement during Vietnam was an organization.  It wasn't.  There were a number of organizations whose philosophies included anti-war sentiments, but no organization (that I'm aware of) named anti-war.

    Same with Antifa.  That name is literally a contraction of anti-fascist.  There are many organizations, including, hopefully, the Republican and Democratic parties that at least rhetorically anti-fascist.

    And, of course, as in the anti-war movement there are people and organizations who claim they are anti-fascist for nefarious purposes. like blaming the real anti-fascists for acts of violence.  If you are seeing groups committing acts of violence in the name of antifa, they may well be right wing groups lying to you for propaganda purposes.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 9:26am

    Matt Holbert

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    Perhaps PP readers were turned off by your source...

    From Wiki:

    ADL has been criticized both from the right[10] and left of the U.S. political spectrum, including within the American Jewish community.[11] Some of the criticism from the left is based on ADL's support for Israel as a Jewish homeland and the organization's vocal opposition to attempts to equate Zionism, the national movement for a state for the Jewish people, with racism. This stance has led some on the farther reaches of the American left (including some Jewish groups such as Jewish Voice for Peace) to claim that so long as ADL continues to support Israel as a Jewish homeland, it cannot credibly call itself a civil rights organization, regardless of any other civil rights positions it takes domestically or internationally.[12][13] Other ADL positions and actions, past and present, that have generated criticism from the left include domestic spying allegations, its former stance on the Armenian Genocide,[14] since repudiated and apologized for,[14] and what frequently is alleged by the left to be ADL's conflation of opposition to Israel with antisemitism.[15][16] On the other hand, right-wing groups and pundits, including very conservative Jewish groups, have attacked ADL, labeling it an arm of the Democratic Party (presumably in part because its CEO, Jonathan Greenblatt, was in the Obama administration)[17][18] and decrying its civil rights agenda, which supports immigrants and refugees, trans rights and other LGBTQ rights, and advocates against establishment of religion as well as against Islamaphobia.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 9:32am

    Doug

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    ADL

    "Perhaps PP readers were turned off by your source..."

    What does that say about those who were "turned off?"  ADL has a long history of support for civil rights in this country.  I'll admit to believing that support for civil rights is a good thing.  Their positions relative to Israel are a different story.

    But regardless, read the article before you criticize it.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 10:19am

    Jim H

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    Nice one Doug....

    Right, people who question the ADL must be racist anti-semitic bigots.

    It's not that simple.. any organization can become captured.   How about this;

    https://thefederalist.com/2017/07/28/anti-defamation-leagues-sad-slide-just-another-left-wing-pressure-group/

    This past April, my husband, New York Post Op-Ed Editor Seth Mandel, started receiving a number of identical hostile tweets (right down to the same typo). He noticed many were officials at various branches of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).

    Seth had been criticizing the organization’s national director and CEO, Jonathan Greenblatt, a former Obama administration staffer, for increasingly heavy-handed bias. Greenblatt was essentially turning the vaunted nonpartisan anti-hate organization into a left-wing pressure group and vehicle for partisan score-settling.

    He realized what was happening: The ADL had launched a coordinated rapid-response attack on him — a Jewish journalist. The ADL denied it, but the next month, Tablet Magazine turned up the proof: ADL staffers were sent two sample tweets with which to attack Seth.

    The most ironic thing about all this was that less than a year earlier, I had been named to an ADL task force seeking to combat coordinated anti-Semitic online harassment. And here was the ADL itself coordinating such a campaign against my husband....

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 10:49am

    Doug

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    And yet...

    You are citing an article from The Federalist, a right wing publication that routinely repeats unfounded conspiracy theories and right wing dogma.  Some recent examples of editorial irresponsibility including excusing Roy Moore for his dalliances with under age girls as good for producing large families, claiming that FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe leaked a story to CNN without any evidence, accusing the Democratic Party of overhyping the coronavirus pandemic to destroy the economy, and, well you get the idea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_(website)

    So, do you want to get into a pissing match about which organization is least credible?

     

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 11:36am

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    mntnhousepermi said:

    There are definitely organizations called ANTIFA, to take the most well know, Rose City ANTIFA in Portland.  Saying you are anti facist is a broad statement, to say you are ANTIFA implies that you are in agreement with/and using the tactics and beliefs/philosophy of ANTIFA.  Otherwise, yes, some groups are not connected, some loosly connected, some co-ordinated with each other.

    You do understand that most people who say they are against facism do not agree with violently shutting down speakers who are not facist on college campuses.  Most people who are against facism have a more typical, possibly dictionary definition of facism, whereas the ANTIFA philosophy uses that label very broadly , and I am not going to cite all the examples already done on the thread by others.  Just pointing out that the philosophy and tactics adherred to by people under the term ANTIFA is not the same as general population who do not want actual facism.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 12:04pm

    Steve

    Steve

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    The great bull market

    I heard an explanation, yesterday, for our bull market.  I was told to imagine the giant machine of America as a race car sitting behind a redlight with the light about to change to green.  It's all revved up and ready to blastoff.

    It just seems to me there must have been a time when the stock market was fueled by the economy ... by productivity ... by corporate profit and growth ... as opposed to liquidity from the federal reserve. The stock market doesn't seem to be linked to the economy any longer.  Looks like I've missed my second big opportunity to participate in a bull market and am left, sitting on the sideline, with complete loss of reputation.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 12:37pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Mohammed Mast said:

    Hi Dave

    I don't do drive by comments. In other words I posted my viewpoint and asked a specific question. You did not answer said question. Instead you changed the subject entirely. In your current response you still did not answer the question. Thatchmo was kind enough to indicate what he believed "bones" to be, I have no idea if that is the same as yours

    As was said in Cool Hand Luke " what we have here is a failure to communicate which has been the case between you and I since the get go. I am not here to debate anything. I am sharing my perspective  in a thread called "As the World Burns". I take that as an indication we are looking at current events and looking at root causes and coping mechanisms. I also take it that we are looking at how the aristocrats are screwing the average man and how that is probably systemic.

    I am a citizen of the universe, I owe no allegiance to any state (mafia). What they get from me is purely through coercion. I have experienced and seen first hand what the empire is capable of.

    I don't expect you or anyone here who is white, middle class and has a portfolio to think any differently than you. I don't expect deep introspection into why "As the World Burns. I do wonder about whether people here really understand what this site has been talking about.  The collapse is coming and there is no amount of flesh that can be mustered to put on the broken bones that will stop it.

    I hope people's preps are well advanced and include a bug out country because that is what the elites are doing. Oh and that includes you too Dave. It's going to get worse.

    All the best

    Om Shanti

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 12:49pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    Anti War Orgs.

    Here is a list of organizations that were opposed to the Vietnam War. Some of them use "against the war" and some "anti war"

    National Black Anti War Anti Draft Union

    John Kerry was a member of the Vietnam Veterans against the War

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 1:29pm

    Doug

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    Doug said:

    Of course, anti-war is a generalized term, just as antifa is.  Anyone can stick them into a name and create a real organization.  Sort of like saxophone quartet.  No one can adopt that As a name of a specific quartet.  But, there is an Amherst Saxophone Quartet.

    Anyone can stick antifa in the name of their organization, no matter what their beliefs or activities.  But, until someone proves me wrong I continue to believe that there is no group named Antifa.  The best you can do is come up with a generalized notion of what such a hypothetical group would stand for.  And, judging by this thread, they could be all over the place with no core beliefs.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 1:42pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    JimH, Of straw men, red herrings and chickens

    JimH, thank you for your thoughtful response. You said,

    "Sparky wants this place to be all things to all people...."
    "Sparky wants this to be a safe space for people under the spell of the mainstream media.."

    JimH, I am impressed by your powers of clairvoyance to discern--incorrectly--what I "want" without me ever having made any of the above statements or arguments. As evidence, please provide links to any such statements I've made that support your straw man arguments above. This is an obvious attempt to galvanize support by using phrases (that I've never used/advocated) that trigger predictable negative reactions, such as PP being "all things to all people" (triggered reaction: impossible, unreasonable demand); "safe space" (triggered association: fragile "snowflakes" of the liberal/leftist persuasion); and "people under the spell of the mainstream media" (triggered reaction: "un-woke", brainwashed). Again, please provide evidence that I ever made such statements. Otherwise, I see no point in debating the above distortions of my position.

    "I am certainly not here to be understanding with those who would argue that office fires melt steel,..."

    I thought the whole point was to present evidence, debate the facts and reach conclusions/understanding regarding what is/in not "true". (For the record, I don't believe that office fires melt steel.)

    "...with those who would present apologetics for Antifa."

    I think dtrammel was pretty clear that he wasn't giving Antifa a "pass", but that he was advocating for a balanced discussion,

    "There's doubting the established mainstream media story and there is pushing ill informed, biased and false stories in a post here. I hope every one of us would be willing to listen to opposing ideas about things we hold true."

    Jim, you state that "truth is not relative"--but whose version of "truth"? Without a balanced assessment and consideration of the evidence, facts and different perspectives, perhaps your absolute version of "truth" is subjective after all.  Dtrammel advocated for a "fair assessment of both sides" (Source ) and you responded with an attack on his credibility, accusing him of "virtue-signaling". (Source) IMO, this was a cheap shot and seriously diminished any arguments you were trying (but failed) to make.

    How ironic that after you made reference to the "racist history of the democratic party", and blamed MSM for polarizing left vs. right in their reporting; you then post a link to a media report entitled, "The far-left has perfected the art of rioting". Hello! That sure seems like you and media casting issues along the left vs. right paradigm. This was immediately followed-up with a post from another commenter with the subject of "ANTIFA/Left-wing danger" (Source)

    I didn't see you or the other commenter receive this pointed message from Chris, nor were you banished you to FB or X22:

    "LOL
    Thank you for your attempt to label this place on the left-right axis. It's always fun to see someone try.
    However, your technique needs refinement. 1/10 on the effectiveness scale. This place relies heavily on facts and persuasion.
    Best of luck elsewhere."

    I have no argument in support of/against Antifa. My point is that Karen was castigated for framing her views (and PP) along a left vs. right "axis"; dtrammel was dissed for advocating for a balanced assessment of Antifa. Yet you and other PP members frame issues in the left vs. right axis and receive no push-back from the "tribe" or Admin.

    So...how can one not conclude that the informal and formal rules of engagement here on PP are sometimes applied unevenly, possibly to reinforce a prevailing bias among very vocal members of the PP tribe? How does that promote the pursuit of "truth" and "truth-telling"?

    Jim, all your other "arguments" (e.g., HCQ, Tulsi Gabbard (oops, politics! Is this against the PP rules and guidelines?), Epstein, MSM and how you feel you/others like you are portrayed) are red herrings designed to distract the discussion from the larger issue of PP's culture of growing intolerance of different perspectives. Some or all of the red herring issues you put forth may or may not be true, in whole or in part, and are debatable--but not if those with alternative views or who are not "like-minded" enough are discouraged from participating in the debate.

    Consider that maybe you feel threatened by these other "minority" perspectives, and are in need of PP to serve as your "safe space" echo chamber to validate existing biases and increase your sense of belonging to a "tribe" of "like-minded" individuals.

    Lastly, you mentioned in a subsequent comment you said

    "Sparky, the whole reconstructing of who did what, who said what is starting to creep me out. It's your right to do it, and my right to criticize you for it."

    Sorry if you're creeped out by my presenting evidence of the facts. It is not at all my intention to creep you out. As PP is supposed to be a data driven, evidenced/fact-based site, I feel it is important not to just post anecdotes and unsubstantiated opinions, but to provide evidence in support of my assertions. As Chris says, "If you have a problem with the facts, the facts are not the problem."

    Additionally, I understand the objective of debate it is to critique or argue for/against a particular point of view, not to criticize the individual(s) who are asserting (or trying to assert) a point of view.

    And yes, it might be productive to have a balanced exploration of Antifa. Maybe we can invite KarenC, and dtrammel into the discussion. Perhaps another time we could discuss less controversial topics such as chickens. Mine have always been too fat to fly away so I've never had to clip their wings. But I have an older one that has foot problems as a result of being overweight, I think.

    Thanks for an interesting and hopefully productive discussion. Have a nice day.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 2:24pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    mntnhousepermi said:

    There are core beliefs and actions they take

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 2:37pm

    Doug

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    Red herrings

    "Right, people who question the ADL must be racist anti-semitic bigots."

    I don't believe I said or implied anything of the sort.  Do you have evidence or are you just throwing out ad homs?

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 3:10pm

    Jim H

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    Antifa and ADL

    Doug said, in response to the following quote from another member;

    "Perhaps PP readers were turned off by your source..."

    What does that say about those who were "turned off?"

    Oh, so you didn't mean to cast any aspersions of any sort onto people who would question the motivations of ADL.. OK.. then my bad for misinterpreting your statement above.  You were just asking an innocent, rhetorical question which was meant to suggest no judgement of any sort.

    I was going to let it be, but your comments about the site that published the piece I referenced, regarding the recent lack of non-partisan positioning on the part of ADL, is in fact a form of shooting the messenger and straw man argumentation.  You in no way addressed the underlying case being made by the writer, who by all accounts  otherwise held a generally favorable view of ADL based on her participation as described.  All you said was Federalist Bad.  Where have I heard such power argumentation before????  Oh yeah, Orange man bad!

    BTW, I am thankful that Kavanaugh did not, at the end of the day, get tried and executed by the media the way Ray Moore did.  I have no idea whether Moore really did the things he was accused of or not, but you Doug seem to know that he did.  The media was so sure about Russian collusion too.

     

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 3:13pm

    Oliveoilguy

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    Great interview with Civil Rights Attorney

    Thank for the link Redneck Engineer. (Post #266). This attorney has a wealth of experience and knowledge about riots and violations of individual rights. Gives a foreshadowing of where we may be headed.
    This is a productive use of PP bandwidth. Thanks for posting.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 3:23pm

    Jim H

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    Sparky..

    You said,

    Consider that maybe you feel threatened by these other "minority" perspectives, and are in need of PP to serve as your "safe space" echo chamber to validate existing biases and increase your sense of belonging to a "tribe" of "like-minded" individuals.

    This isn't it at all.  I feel like I am going to lose the country that I love.. lose it for my kids.  I don't give a crap what people think of me.. I am way, way beyond that.  I just want people to wake up to the fact that the mass media, and most of the Left in the US, is completely captured by a Globalist deep state that has deceptively stolen their idealism.  I want to see the deep state completely eradicated, and then get back to an open and transparent politics in the US, at which point I will revert to my classic liberal positions.  I believe that in order for our constitution to survive, we need to eradicate the deep state... that is job 1 for me.  The European Union Technocracy is the model for the world.  One money system, all tracking, all the time, no freedom.

    I am on a war footing.

     

     

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 5:28pm

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

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    Redneck Engineer said:

    You’re welcome, OOG.  I’m glad you found it useful.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 6:05pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    The true George Floyd

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 6:27pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    I made it to 4:45

    This is BS.

    This chick has plenty of issues.

    In her logic cops should serve as judge. jury and executioner.

    Nothing to see here move on.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 6:54pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Get off it Doug

    Just to refresh your memory this is what you posted.

    "There were a number of organizations whose philosophies included anti-war sentiments, but no organization (that I'm aware of) named anti-war."

    I posted a number of organizations named "anti war" or "against the war"

    So just say "I am now aware of organizations 50 years ago that were named anti war"

    It's pretty simple and easy. I was there I know  it for a fact

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 7:58pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    I disagree with you MM

    If you watch and listen to the video she in no way condones the killing of Mr. Floyd.  He was a career criminal imprisoned multiple times.  Toxicology showed he had methamphetamine and Fentanyl in his system.  He resisted arrest.  Did he deserve to die, no.  He was being arrested for passing counterfeit money.  He put himself in the position to be arrested.  Bad things happen when people (including the police) do bad things.  ALL lives matter.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 1:02am

    mememonkey

    Status: Bronze Member

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    ADL Credibility and support for Israeli Militarization of US Police

    Perhaps PP readers were turned off by your source..."

    What does that say about those who were "turned off?"  ADL has a long history of support for civil rights in this country.  I'll admit to believing that support for civil rights is a good thing.  Their positions relative to Israel are a different story.

    But regardless, read the article before you criticize it.

    I find Doug's above appeal to the authority of the ADL as some sort of neutral moral arbiter with a storied history of civil rights support to provide an objective description of ANTiFA to be risable if not a completely predictable view of someone that gets their propaganda news feed from the Washinton Post and New York times.

    This benign view of the ADL is belied by their actual history as a politically active group that aggressively and often criminally advances Jewish  special interests including the reactionary  Likudnik Zionist Israeli government agendas.

    Furthermore they do so more often than not at the expense of the disenfranchised who's civil rights they supposedly champion.  For example Martin Luther King whom they spied on and shared information with the FBI as  part of systematic illegal surveillance of Americans as elucidated here:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-adl-in-american-society/

    There is also a far more serious aspect to the situation. The choice of the ADL as the primary ideological overseer of America’s Internet may seem natural and appropriate to politically-ignorant Americans, a category that unfortunately includes the technology executives leading the companies involved. But this reflects the remarkable cowardice and dishonesty of the American media from which all these individuals derive their knowledge of our world. The true recent history of the ADL is a remarkably sordid and disreputable tale.

    In January 1993, the San Francisco Police Department reported that it had recently raided the Northern California headquarters of the ADL based upon information provided by the FBI. The SFPD discovered that the organization had been keepingintelligence files on more than 600 civic organizations and 10,000 individuals, overwhelmingly of a liberal orientation, with the SFPD inspector estimating that 75% of the material had been illegally obtained, much of it by secret payments to police officials. This was merely the tip of the iceberg in what clearly amounted to the largest domestic spying operation by any private organization in American history, and according to some sources, ADL agents across the country had targeted over 1,000 political, religious, labor, and civil rights organizations, with the New York headquarters of the ADL maintaining active dossiers on more than a million Americans.

    Not long afterward, an ACLU official who had previously held a high-ranking position with the ADL revealed in an interview that his organization had been the actual source of the highly controversial 1960s surveillance on Martin Luther King, Jr., which it had then provided to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. For many years Hoover had been furiously denounced in the national media headlines for his use of tapes and other secret information on King’s activities, but when a local San Francisco newspaper revealed that an ADL spying operation had actually been the source of all that sordid material, the bombshell revelation was totally ignored in the national media and only reported by fringe organizations, so that today almost no Americans are aware of that fact.

    I am not aware of any other private organization in American history that has been involved in even a sliver of such illegal domestic espionage activity, which appears to have been directed against almost all groups and prominent individuals—Left, Right, and Center—suspected of being insufficiently aligned with Jewish and Israeli interests. Some of the illegal material found in ADL possession even raised dark suspicions that it had played a role in domestic terrorist attacks and political assassinations directed against foreign leaders. I am no legal expert, but given the massive scale of such illegal ADL activities, I wonder whether a plausible case might have been made to prosecute the entire organization under RICO statutes and sentence all of its leaders to long prison terms.

    Instead, the resulting government charges were quickly settled with merely a trivial fine and a legal slap on the wrist, demonstrating the near-total impunity provided by massive Jewish political power in modern American society.

    In effect, the ADL seems to have long operated as our country’s privatized secret political police, monitoring and enforcing its ideological doctrines on behalf of Jewish groups much as the Stasi did for the Communist rulers of East Germany. Given such a long history of criminal activity, allowing the ADL to extend its oversight to our largest Social Media platforms amounts to appointing the Mafia to supervise the FBI and the NSA, or taking a very large step towards implementing George Orwell’s ” Ministry of Truth” on behalf of Jewish interests.

    I would submit that their friendly review  and downplaying of ANTIFA makes much more sense if you are able to step outside the propaganda bubble of their  media reinforced reputation as the "good guys" and view it in the aforementioned context.

    The ADL is more than just a lawfare. spying and propaganda arm of special interests.  As it turns out they are an integral player in the militarization of American police forces by promoting, facilitating and in some Sates and jurisdictions actively managing the notorious Israeli police training  exchange programs where we have our police train in the brutal occupation force policing techniques such as the currently 'en vogue;  Kneeling on Neck restraint!

     

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/militarized-police-a-gift-from-israel/

    The militarization of American law enforcement has been in a sense institutionalized through programs set up by the federal government and the states to train with Israeli police, a mentoring relationship established by Michael Chertoff when he was Secretary of Homeland Security. Joint training programs run in Israel are being used to indoctrinate American police forces and are difficult to comprehend as related to normal policing as the Israelis are clueless when it comes to conducting investigations or protecting all of their country’s citizens. Israel’s cops are at the forefront of state violence against Palestinians as well as serving as protectors of rampaging heavily armed settlers who destroy Arab livelihoods so they can steal their land. The Israeli police are also quite good at using the “Palestinian chair” for torture when they are notshooting Arab teenagers in the back. They also invented skunk water, a disgusting smelling chemical spray initially used against Arab demonstrators, and were the first major police force to regularly employ so-called rubber bullets, which can kill or maim.

    In fact, there have been suggestions that certain American policemen might well be picking up some unanticipated pointers from the Israelis. Georgia has been experiencing a surge in officer involved shootings, nearly half of the victims beingunarmed or shot from behind. As this has unfolded, the state continues to pursue a “police exchange” program with Israel run through Georgia State University.

    The police “exchange programs” began twenty-seven years ago in 1992 and are paid for through grants from the U.S. Department of Justice as well as from the state and local governments. Reportedly “law enforcement from [a number of] U.S. states have participated in the program, including those from Tennessee, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nevada, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Washington, D.C., and West Virginia.” In some states and local jurisdictions, the Israel exchange program is managed by the Anti-Defamation League, which also sponsors propagandistic seminars on Israeli “counter-terrorism” practices throughout the U.S.

    ...A favorite technique used by the Israeli police to subdue an Arab is the very knee on neck used by Derek Chauvin that killed George Floyd. Minnesota has been actively involved in training its police with the Israelis, to include participation by over 100 officers in a 2012 conference in Minneapolis hosted by Israel’s Chicago consulate. There, they learned the “restraint procedures” employed by Israelis. The conference was jointly hosted by the FBI, the facilities were provided by the city, and the meeting itself was funded by the federal government and the state.

    While it is not known if Chauvin actually underwent the specific training, the Israeli techniques have made their way into the city’s police manual, which has been, not surprisingly, removed from online. An archived copy of the relevant section on how to control someone who is resisting arrest does still exist however and can be viewed atthis site. It includes “Minneapolis Police Department Use of Force Policy: 5-311, Use of Neck Restraints: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck).” There are admittedly some caveats on the use of the technique, but it is generally approved for use in subduing someone who is resisting arrest, which may plausibly have been the case with Floyd.

    Something to think about the next time you're tempted to tout the civil rights record  and reputation of the ADL

     

    mm

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 4:40am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

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    Candice sticks to fact based argument.

    I can’t find any fallacies in her argument. She urges the black community to put their best people forward as examples for their youth To follow....like Koby Bryant. There are so many amazing Blacks.......why not honor them? Like the 77 year old black cop David Dorn who was murdered trying to defend someone and their property. He served all his life to benefit others. He is a martyr.  Floyd was a career criminal who robbed and put a gun to the belly of a pregnant black woman....FACT.  He served multiple sentences in prison....FACT. Was he murdered? YES.......Should his life be an example for black youth to follow? I agree with Candice.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 6:01am

    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Differences of world view

    are irreconcilable. On this site and in my private life the gulf between red and blue, black and white, urban and rural has grown to a volume that precludes reconciliation. Whatever fills the gap will have to be supernaturally powerful, or it won’t be filled.

    This site is about solutions. My solution was to move to low density pop. farm country decades ago.

    husband,father,farmer,optometrist

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 6:10am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    10

    The ADL at the heart of Internet censorship

    Continuing from the Unz Review article posted by MemeMonkey above:

    The worrisome incompetence of ADL researchers becomes particularly alarming when we consider that over the last couple of years that organization has been elevated into a content gatekeeping role at America’s largest Internet companies, helping to determine what may or may not be said on the most important Social Media platforms such as Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter.

    Was this group behind the elimination from YouTube of Dr Roger Seheult's MedCram lectures that mention hydroxychloroquine while leaving all his other daily lectures in on COVID-19 place?

     

    Brittan Heller, director of technology and society for the Anti-Defamation League, poses for a photograph in downtown Palo Alto, Calif., on Monday, August 27, 2018. (Nhat V. Meyer/Bay Area News Group)

    My local paper [writes Ron Unz] is the San Jose Mercury News and a couple of weeks ago it published a major profile interview with Brittan Heller, the ADL Director tasked with policing “hate speech” across the America-dominated portions of the Internet. She seemed like a perfectly pleasant young woman in her mid-thirties, a Stanford English major and a graduate of Yale Law, now living in Silicon Valley with her husband and her two cats, Luna and Stella. She emphasizes her own experience as a victim of cyber-harassment from a fellow college student whose romantic overtures she rejected and the later expertise she had gained as a Nazi-hunter for the U.S. government.

    But does that resume really provide her with the god-like knowledge suitable for overriding our traditional First Amendment rights and determining which views and which individuals should be allowed access to some two billion readers worldwide?

    I have the impression that our society is being destroyed and the narrative is being shaped in what appears to be a conscious plan.  Is the narrative shaping coordination centered in the ADL?

    Out of the chaos of the protests, now comes a moment of coherence and the slogan "Defund the police."  This seems to be both a remarkably short sighted act, and, to reflect organizational clarity and clear direction, from what we are to believe is a disorganized, spontaneously arising mob.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 6:23am

    sand_puppy

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    And remember the Animal Farm pattern ....

    The animals are roused up to overthrow the farmer's oppression on the basis of

    fairness, justice and compassion.

    Then control is moved from the collective, back into the hands of a few smart pigs, by skillful public opinion manipulation.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 6:39am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    2

    Disagree

    It was pure bs.

    He was murdered for passing a counterfeit $20.

    Blacks get stopped by cops for being black.

    He was murdered plain and simple. Being high is not a justification for murder.

    By her and your logic high, career criminals should be executed. Okay welcome to Amerika.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 7:30am

    tbp

    tbp

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    tbp said:

    @Mohammed Mast, the point to realize is that the MSM turns a cop crime into a race war, while ignoring the actual statistics that show black-on-any including black-on-black crime is higher than white-on-black crime, etc etc, ignoring the actual issue of cops-on-civilian crime and pretending there is extreme systemic racism like we're still in the 50s or 60s.

    @mememonkey, and others, thank you for setting the record straight; the ADL is a criminal organization acting like the imaginary Nazis they so despise, and they actually have been from the beginning in 1913 when they defended a child rapist and murderer just because he was a Jew.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 7:31am

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    Reply to MM

    I respectfully disagree with you.  Those unable or unwilling to see the truth are blinded by their prejudices, hatred, and political agenda's.  Your "logic" is based on false premises.  Had Mr. Floyd not broken the law he would not have been arrested.  There would have been no "murder".  Racial divide in our country is being pushed by the political anarchists and media to further their political agenda's, with the "media" the mouthpiece for the divide.

    I continue to read where Mr. Floyd was "murdered".  By definition murder is "the pre-meditated killing of one human by another"  In this instance there was NO premeditation.  Mr. Floyd put himself in the position to be arrested.  The false narrative being sold to the American people is to further racial divide for a political agenda.  Whether one is a believer or not, in perilous times it would behoove all to read the New Testament.   There are answers to many of the complex problems we all face today.  The cure for the many of the problems we are faced with today may be found in one word: LOVE

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 8:04am

    Jim H

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    10

    One very specific point to Sparky...

    Sparky,  I have slept on it and I will try to be less aggressive in my approach... I often fail at this but I will try once again.  I don't mean to belabor this, but there is a very specific point that I want to get across, and it relates to what I said about Tulsi Gabbard, and your response to it;

      Tulsi Gabbard (oops, politics! Is this against the PP rules and guidelines?)

    I invoked the case of Tulsi Gabbard in an attempt to show the currupt deep state in action.  To explain once again, my premise is that most of the left, and some of the right in this country, along with the mass media, are captured by a power structure that hides from us but supports not us, but a Globalist, Deep State agenda, the goal of which is the destruction of the constitutional US as we know it.

    I would think that a naive viewer of the situation would at least be left wondering why Tulsi was accused, absurdly, of being an agent of Russia?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/tulsi-gabbard-sues-hillary-clinton-for-alleged-russian-smear.html

    Why would Clinton smear Tulsi Gabbard, just as she was starting to gain traction in the polls?  Why would you take a woman Dem candidate with military experience and call her a Russian asset?  Did this strike anyone else as absurd?

    It is not absurd if you understand how the deep state works.  What is obvious is that Tulsi Gabbard is not captured.. she is her own person.. and was her own candidate, appealing directly to the people and not to the underlying power structure.  She had not been compromised and was not about to be.  She had to go.

    Tulsi Gabbard could have been just as dangerous to the deep state as Donald Trump... maybe even more so.. so she had to go.  I am not advocating for one politics over another here.. I am advocating to free American politics from the corrupt and deceitful influence of the deep state... the same CIA/five eyes deep state that tried to kneecap Donald Trump.

    I can't talk about the deep state without invoking the names of politicians.  I am not here to convince anyone to believe in the historical tenets of the democrats or the republicans.  I absolutely am here to try to convince folks that we are lied to constantly by the mass media, HCQ being only the latest clear example, and that they need to question everything.  I don't expect that arguing this case will provoke moderation here at PP.com

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 8:47am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Cornel West on George Floyd

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyqW_Cghai4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkYJeMwlsto

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 8:50am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    tbp?

    Could you clarify and be a little more specific?

    I don't see your point

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 9:03am

    MarkM

    MarkM

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    6

    Tulsi

    Jim, I feel your assessment of Tulsi Gabbard is spot on. Man. Bright, articulate, seemingly capable of reason. Many take the "Russian Asset" smear lightly. I think nothing could be further from the truth. She scared them right out of the gate and they nipped it early.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 9:11am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    1

    I suggest you try to keep up

    Your definition of murder is woefully inaccurate.

    The following may help you understand the concept. It may also help you understand the concept of malice. Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for 8;45 several minutes of which he was motionless. In your universe that qualifies as what? I suggest you study a little history and a lot of sociology. Racism is real and alive and well in Amerika.

    The elements of common law murder are:

    1. unlawful
    2. killing
    3. through criminal act or omission
    4. of a human
    5. by another human
    6. with malice aforethought.[11]
    • Unlawful – This distinguishes murder from killings that are done within the boundaries of law, such as capital punishment, justified self-defense, or the killing of enemy combatants by lawful combatants as well as causing collateral damage to non-combatants during a war.[12]
    • Killing – At common law life ended with cardiopulmonary arrest[11] – the total and irreversible cessation of blood circulation and respiration.[11] With advances in medical technology courts have adopted irreversible cessation of all brain function as marking the end of life.[11]
    • Сriminal act or omission – Killing can be committed by an act or an omission.[13]
    • Of a human – This element presents the issue of when life begins. At common law, a fetus was not a human being.[14] Life began when the fetus passed through the vagina and took its first breath.[11]
    • By another human – In early common law, suicide was considered murder.[11] The requirement that the person killed be someone other than the perpetrator excluded suicide from the definition of murder.
    • With malice aforethought – Originally malice aforethought carried its everyday meaning – a deliberate and premeditated (prior intent) killing of another motivated by ill will. Murder necessarily required that an appreciable time pass between the formation and execution of the intent to kill. The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes "malice".

    The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:[15]

    1. Intent to kill,
    2. Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
    3. Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
    4. Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony murder" doctrine).

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 9:22am

    Jim H

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    3

    Thanks MM...

    Even though I can't stomach the interviewers, I watched both.  I find Cornell authentic and inspiring.  At one point in the first linked interview he spoke about our culture being so, "money driven, everybody for sale, everything for sale".  Indeed this is true and these points resonate almost perfectly with Eisenstein's theme of separation, and how money and our system of monetizing literally everything only drives us further into a fundamentally unnatural separation, as opposed to a more natural co-dependency and realization of our shared consciousness.

    Our money system is at the root of so much of our dysfunction.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 9:26am

    tbp

    tbp

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    tbp said:

    @Mohammed Mast

    The point is that they (the MSM/Deep State/DNC/Soros/globalist agenda) want you to believe racism is THE problem in America, when the problem/challenge we face is them and their mind-control programs broadcasted/printed via the corporate legacy media that promotes harmful false narratives, in this case the false narrative that there is systemic racism that hasn't been resolved (yet had been considered resolved for decades) and that that's why the psychopathic cop killed Floyd -- because he's a racist and not because he's a criminal cop high on "power" over other people, enabled by a lack of oversight promoted by the same statist kakistocrats that promote and protect those hierarchies that incentivize the attraction of amoral (or blackmailed) people to such positions of perceived "power".

    Whether this was a staged event or not isn't the crux of the issue, because the MSM is lying regardless in order to promote their radical neomarxist agenda of division -- whatever it takes to prevent Trump/decency from winning again.

    The 'enemy' isn't white people, or men, or the heterosexual or cisgendered  "patriarchy" (i.e. the majority group once you divide society into "minorities" as part of pathetic "identity politics" agendas). In truth, the 'enemy' isn't even the Deep State globalist technocrat controllers, for as soon as you accept a dualistic definition of "us vs. them" of any kind, you're already falling into their dualistic trap. They don't actually really have any power beyond that which each one of us is constantly giving them by assigning definitions/beliefs in regards to their apparent abilities. For most souls incarnated on this planet at this time it's ultimately about realizing that it's really all about YOU, and what vibration YOU choose to be in and irradiate, the resonance of which is what determines what parallel reality you will shift to within yourself which will contain those elements and people whose vibrational resonance is commensurate to yours. We're each living in subjective reality tunnels with overlapping objective reality elements generated by our higher selves in the 5th density. Don't get too "trapped" in (i.e. emotionally attached to) 3rd density dramas.

    In regards to human potential and our awakening abilities, I highly recommend you watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPO07tRx778 [Jay Campbell & Laura Eisenhower LIVE: Psychological Operations & False Flags]

     

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 10:20am

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    2

    Keeping up

    Actions have consequences. If Mr. Floyd had not broken the law there would have been no arrest, and no death.  The actions of those in law enforcement involved in this situation will affect their lives and the lives of their families potentially for generations.  All loss of life is tragic, including Mr. Floyd's.  Acts of hate and malice further hatred and division.  Those protesting, rioting, burning, looting, killing, are acting out of hate.  Imagine what good could be done if those same thousands of people focused there intentions and actions on doing something positive and unifying.  They have allowed themselves to be pawns of a political agenda.   Truly sad.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 10:58am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    There but for Fortune

    A song by Phil Ochs. I don't think many can dispute the truth of this song, but if there are they will be found here I am sure. lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lFPIIdud9o

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 12:08pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    BS Video

    I am sure very few here know who Harry Edwards is. He initiated the " Olympic Project for Human Rights" He was a professor at San Jose St. He was a great athlete who gave that up to pursue academics.

    The Tommy Smith and John Carlos Black Power Salute was inspired by his work.

    He researched the subject of Black Athletes and young Black men aspiring to be Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and other highly visible Black athletes. The data (we just love data) showed that young Black men had a statistically better chance of being an astronaut than an NBA star. "Edwards told Time magazine that he "wants to serve as a role model—the promising athlete who gave up the possibility of a career in professional sports to become a scholar instead."[4] "We must teach our children to dream with their eyes open," he said. "The chances of your becoming a Jerry Rice or a Magic Johnson are so slim as to be negligible. Black kids must learn to distribute their energies in a way that's going to make them productive, contributing citizens in an increasingly high-technology society."

    So using Kobe Bryant in that video was gratuitous and completely erroneous. That video ignores the battle just to survive in this country for Blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbJG7XVxkq8

    I would love to she her bio. It looked completely staged.

    I am out of this discussion , carry on

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 1:07pm

    Oliveoilguy

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    5

    Is Chauvin a Racist or a Psycopath?

    MM... You say “Racism is real and alive and well in Amerika.“ I don’t doubt that. But after showing that by all standards this was murder, you insert racism as intent .....without any proof.

    I would like to know if Chauvin was a psychopathic, power obsessed cop who treated all suspected criminals (white, black, Hispanic) in the same manner. He had almost one complaint per year. The complaint records were not available on my search. Were his victims all Black? Predominantly Black? Where they all Male? Or Mostly Female?

    Before jumping to the conclusion that this was race motivated....It would be good to have  some background. Some proof. We probably all agree that he is deranged. Does anyone have proof of racist motivations? They burned cities on the assumption that he is racist.... what if he is mentally ill?

    If this turns out to be a sick individual without clear racist intent, It changes the narrative used to brand all police departments as inherently racist. Increased screening of all officers is necessary no matter what....but the race card should be removed.

     

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 1:40pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    High on Power

    tbp you really hit on something.  Where did racism come from?  In the North it may have been fear of the black race as something very different from your everyday experience.  In the South it may have been from long lasting resentment of the loss of the civil war and the so called "Restoration" disaster.  In the North hasn't that gone away with the integration of blacks into everyday life and on the media?  In the South racism has been fading with old memories.  So with the George Floyd killing was this really overt racism or a result of a cop with an authority complex who has had previous physical incidents with suspects, white or black?  We really won't know until a trial.  I'm as frustrated as everyone else that after Freddy Gray and the choking death in New York, after all these years, this is still happening.  What will it take to stop it?

    But in the cold light of logic we should be waiting until we get more information that results from a trial.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 3:39pm

    Time2help

    Time2help

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    All just too convenient

    Treating the #GeorgeFloyd event as a high likelihood PsyOp / False Flag. Done with it.

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 9:31pm

    Pandabonium

    Pandabonium

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    Pandabonium said:

    The symptoms commonly described have been observed long before this pandemic occurred, so you may want to investigate further and make sure your symptoms are not due to some other possibly serious underlying cause.   The collection of symptoms referred to as "limited scleroderma" in medical literature comes to mind.  I am not a medical professional and do not make diagnoses or suggest treatments.  If it were me, I would seek the opinion of an MD or other medical professional.    All the best. PB

     

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 10:13pm

    Pandabonium

    Pandabonium

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    Monkey business

    While I agree with much of this post and share many of the sentiments expressed in it, I question whether the capuchin monkey experiment is showing that the the one getting fed the (nutritionally inferior imho) cucumber slices is demonstrating a knowledge of fairness.  It could just as easily be trying to tell the lab worker that it prefers grapes.   Perhaps the monkey understands that the grapes contain fiber, vitamins, and phytonutrients in much greater amounts than found in cucumbers.       Animals are very smart and I am open to the possibility that some - especially primates - understand complex concepts such as justice.  I just don't see that this experiment rises to the level of proof.   I'm not qualified to design a study, but how about running a similar experiment run with just one monkey; giving the monkey a grape at first then switching to cucumber slices?

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 10:59pm

    nordicjack

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    Mpup weird video by Candice

    Interesting and true.  She does make some good points.   But, it seems she obviously sees the wrong doing by authorities here.  But, leaves some responsibility, culpability by floyd because he was not "perfect"    so, he does not deserve the attention..   I am not one who thinks doing drugs is ok,  but it does not deserve this kind of treatment - so she makes its obvious this is not ok.  But please dont praise the greatness of floyd.   Odd.. the point is even if criminal , this is not what one deserves.. AND obviously she thinks that whites and other races wont protest if someone of their race had the same treatment.      And they likely wont.  The reason is not the victim, its the reference frame,  the black people are more likely and able to see themselves as the victim ( an average white person will not. Even if a criminal got killed unjustly, they do not identify with that person )  The truth is nearly half the prisoners are black while only 13% of population.   They are george floyd.   she gets it sort of.   But good for her she wants to be white.  and feel white.   But, the fact remains, that blacks are 2x as likely to be killed in police custody compared to non-blacks..   So its an issue..   But in the end floyd was a bad dude , and though justice should not have been handed this way, is probably rather just , seeing the ahole he was.   I guess its hard to support this scum.. basically, its almost like saying sorry floyd , i dont care that you got screwed because you are a bad dude.. you deserve different treatment than me.   ( so its weird.. because i get it,  but two wrongs dont make a right )

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  • Tue, Jun 09, 2020 - 11:22pm

    thatchmo

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    2

    Gazing offshore.....

    I wonder how all those brown people in Yemen are faring?  Aloha, Steve

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 6:01am

    tbp

    tbp

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    It's all about mind-control agendas using division strategies

    @Mohammed Mast & @nordicjack,

    First watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u2cYA48Lbw [Black Lives Matter & Hypocrisy (by @harbirnain on Instagram)] (a 4-minute summary)

    Then read this and watch the Candace Owens video if you haven't already: https://rioting.news/2020-06-04-candace-owens-george-floyd-violent-criminal-felon.html

    She is absolutely correct, he was no hero, and the elevation of Floyd to hero status is purely another mind-control tactic, where they use the worst elements in the Black community to create further Black priviledge (Leftist actual racism) -- SEE FOR YOURSELF: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-06-07-black-privilege-reigns-supreme-in-the-usa.html

    (Natural News) The way we know that black lives matter more than white lives in America is because when a cop kills a black man, the whole world riots. But when a cop kills a white man, it doesn’t even make the evening news.

    In this article, I reveal how the progressive Left pushes “black privilege” in a demeaning, condescending way that is an insult to black people everywhere. I also expose the rank hypocrisy of the progressive Left and how its own thought leaders are the ones who treat black people like low-IQ, sub-human animals who they consider to be incapable of functioning in civil society in a reasoned, intelligent way.

    [...]Black privilege is now so prominent across America that Black Lives Matter groups are free to carry out riots, arson, looting and even assault on innocent civilians without being stopped or arrested by police. When black groups march toward a police precinct, the police evacuate and surrender the entire building to be burned down by rioters. In the rare circumstances when black protesters are arrested, the political leaders of the city universally set them free the next day, without any charges, even if they carried out acts of extreme property damage and theft.

    By comparison, no white-inspired protest group would ever be allowed to burn down buildings, loot retailers to their heart’s delight and take over police precinct buildings. These privileges are only reserved for Black Lives Matter. White-looking conservative groups would be immediately labeled terrorists and condemned as “racist” by the media, which would emphasize their irresponsible looting and property damage behaviors, instead of celebrating them like we see with black-inspired groups.

    [...]Black privilege is also evident in academia and finance. As a mechanism that claims to help make up for centuries of oppression, when black people apply for loans or grant money, they get extra special consideration because of the color of their skin — black privilege. When they apply for college admissions, they get extra points for black privilege, even while Asian-Americans are punished by those same colleges and universities for being too academically gifted. (Yes, nearly all the universities in America routinely discriminate against Asians, assigning “Asian penalty points” to their college admission scores.)

    [...]Even the attitude that black people can only speak through violence is wildly insulting, as if the progressive Left believes modern blacks are some sort of sub-human animals who can only grunt and thrash their way across an urban landscape rather than engage in meaningful, rational conversations about the structure of society. The very idea that blacks must be allowed to “communicate” through arson and looting is demeaning and anti-humanitarian, yet it encapsulates the ideology of the progressive Left which treats blacks as sub-human animals who must be “allowed to riot” because that’s the only way they know to communicate.

    The very idea is insulting beyond belief. Yet it now dominates the cultural landscape. How many times have we now heard that we must “let them riot” because that’s their “speech?” The message being broadcast to the rest of society, according to the bigoted Left, is that they think black people have not even attained the degree of domestication necessary to participate in a modern society founded upon the rule of law. Black groups, say the progressives, are exempt from the rule of law because they are incapable of the level of rational thought necessary to even operate in the realm of civility. Can you think of a more racist, demeaning insult to human beings?

    At the same time they've been running Monarch/MK-ULTRA trauma-based mind-control psyops on the Black community for DECADES, promoting rap music culture (which glamorizes gangsterism, drugs, prostitution, mistreatment of women, even poverty), incentivized fatherless homes with welfare benefits, introduced crack into Black neighborhoods on purpose, pushed "affirmative action" racism instead of meritocracy to make people wonder if their Black doctor is there by merit or because of the color of his skin ("reverse racism").......

    They also continue pushing this narrative while other people are dying from the riots -- what about them huh? The only thing that matters to the narrative is that a black man was killed by a white cop and they have it on video to use as a weapon against you (I'm assuming you're an American).

    If you buy into the race-baiting and the underlying victimhood mentality, the re-separation of Americans into black and white camps, you've been played for a fool.

    What is the larger agenda, within which they weaponize their NPCs (not just Black NPCs)? Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht2nt3wZUN4 [Riots & Lockdown - 4th Generation Warfare]

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 6:21am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Posts: 2436

    7

    Daisy Luther: There is a Playbook for this

    There’s an Actual Playbook for Everything Happening Right Now and the US Wrote It. But Who Is Using It Against Us?
    Special Forces Unconventional Warfare Manual 2010
    Real injustice and fury must pre-exist in the population.  The goal of this unconventional warfare strategy is to channel this outrage into organized guerrilla action aimed at destroying the "host nation" (HN).

    The outrage is systematically nurtured using "useful idiots" (celebrities, opinion leaders) that guide the population into military action and overt violence.

    Key outrages must be committed and widely televised.

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 7:47am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    5

    When Reason Becomes Criminal And Truth Proof Of Evil...

    I really cannot see how America will avoid internal armed conflict, as the Cultural Marxists continue to exploit their chance to enslave all of us. After all, these scum have been getting ready for this for the last 40 years, and have now firmly established their propaganda and misinformation and corrupt values and vile philosophy in the “minds” of so many.

    They have waited for our youth to be thoroughly infected with their bile, and for their political power to grow in their controlled cities, as their most potent enemies have aged, and have effectively been silenced, by shielding their own “meat puppets” from contrary thought.

    Now is the time for them to strike!...and they know it.  Especially, as doing so will effectively blunt any administration of Justice upon its political operatives.  Any charges by this current Administration, against any of their agents, will only “prove” to its radical base…the virtue of a Marxist Revolution.

    I suggest it is not a matter of being RED, rather than DEAD.  But, a matter of the RED being DEAD.

    Get out, or, get ready.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 8:04am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    2

    Ision...

    You said,

    Any charges by this current Administration, against any of their agents, will only “prove” to its radical base…the virtue of a Marxist Revolution.

    This is true to an extent.. but activation of the insurrection act remains in the quiver.  The country is watching how the Seattle "Capital Hill Free Zone" thing plays out..  I think that a strong majority of the country is recoiling at the insanity playing out right now an would support the president if it comes that using the military.  I am guessing though that there are anti-terrorist operations going on now that we are not hearing about.

    To your point though, I did reacquaint myself with my State's open carry laws last night.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 8:32am

    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    2

    It's coming

    @Ision

    I couldn't agree with you more. It is sobering to think that an American would have to flee their country. I will be ready and willing to stay and work and I see plenty of work ahead.

    @Jim

    There are a vast number of "useful idiots" and I am sure that there are plans to enlist more. I don't underestimate their clout. Just look at the things happening now. I am not so sure that, if push comes to shove, Trump will have the political strength to make the Insurrection Act stick.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 8:42am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    George Floyd

    I have some questions about George Floyd

    1 Did he plant a garden?

    2 Did he have a portfolio/retirement acct?

    3 Did he own gold?

    4 Was he armed?

    5 Where did he get the Fentanyl? (it is a prescription drug)

    6 Did he work with the officer who murdered him?

    7 What level of schooling did he get?

    8 Did he have health insurance and was he being treated for his numerous ailments?

    9 Did he own his own home?

    10 Who shot the video of his murder and what happened to that person?

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 12:02pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Answer to #6

    It appears Floyd and Chauvin had a history. Perhaps Chauvin saw a chance to get Floyd.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 3:53pm

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    4

    Police getting doxxed. No wonder they conceal their identity.

    Replying to Mohammed Mast at #231 (again, #236 the first response):

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/10/report-dhs-warns-police-officers-are-being-doxed/

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Personal information of police officers in departments nationwide is being leaked online amid tense interactions at demonstrations across the U.S. over the police custody death of George Floyd and others, according to an unclassified intelligence document from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, obtained by The Associated Press.

    The document warns that the effort, known as “doxxing,” could lead to attacks by “violent opportunists or domestic violent extremists” or could prevent law enforcement officials from carrying out their duties.

    Multiple high-ranking police officials in a number of cities, including Washington, Atlanta, Boston and New York have had their personal information shared on social media, including their home addresses, email addresses and phone numbers, the report warns.

    “At least one of the police commissioners was targeted for his alleged support of the use of tear gas to disperse protests,” it says.

    Police officials nationwide have spoken out lately saying they feel caught in the middle of trying to stop violent protests, and feel abandoned by lawmakers in the demand for police reform. Some have said they fear for their lives.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 6:34pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 88

    1

    Reply to MM on CBS article

    From the CBS article:  "What happened there has sparked demands for a new law enforcement model."   The "new law enforcement model" should be, that the third time you go to prison it is a mandatory and minimum 20 years + a day.   George Floyd should not have been on the streets.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 7:11pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Chauvin

    There is more to the story. The trial will provide a lot of info. on Chauvin. He knew Floyd.

    Chauvin would love to get to serve 20+ a day. If he gets any jail time he will be toast. A cop in prison for killing a black guy? I would rather be the proverbial snowball in hell

     

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 11:00pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    Well, I'm glad we got THAT cleared up!

    Sorry tbp!

    "LOL
    Thank you for your attempt to label this place on the left-right axis. It's always fun to see someone try.
    However, your technique needs refinement. 1/10 on the effectiveness scale. This place relies heavily on facts and persuasion.
    Best of luck elsewhere."

    ~Chris Martenson, 6/7/20 (Source)

     

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  • Thu, Jun 11, 2020 - 2:27am

    Mpup

    Mpup

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 88

    5

    Reply to MM re Chauvin

    People make mistakes, we all make mistakes.  Tragic that Mr. Floyd paid for his mistake with his life. Mr. Chauvin also made a mistake, he, his friends, and his family will pay dearly for his mistake.  Meanwhile the rioting, robbery, burning, and killing continue.  Those unwilling to accept God's Word do a disservice to themselves, to other's, and to our nation.  The fires of racism are being fanned to further a political agenda. The riots and protesting serve no one.  Furthering hatred is morally reprehensible.   It is true that we reap what we sow.

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  • Thu, Jun 11, 2020 - 5:48am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Libertarians and the Law

    https://reason.com/2020/06/08/where-are-libertarians-on-police-reform-right-where-weve-always-been/

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  • Thu, Jun 11, 2020 - 6:38am

    tbp

    tbp

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Apr 12 2020

    Posts: 523

    0

    tbp said:

    @Mohammed Mast, Yes, there are indeed some pretty big anomalies, to the point of maybe even being a "High Strangeness" event, but whether it was totally real or a false flag in this case doesn't really change the outcome, i.e. how the MSM is using it as a weapon to attempt to regain full power.

    @Sparky1
    "Sorry tbp!"

    Not sure what you mean...

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  • Thu, Jun 11, 2020 - 9:08am

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