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    A Simple Way To Combat Coronavirus: Everyone Should Wear A Mask!

    I protect you. You protect me.
    by Adam Taggart

    Saturday, March 28, 2020, 3:11 PM

It’s amazing that people are still being chided for taking steps to protect themselves from the coronavirus, when anyone with eyes can see that the spread of the disease is fast overwhelming authorities’ ability to deal with it.

Regular people are being told not only that they don’t need masks, but that “masks don’t work”.

Hospital workers are dangerously short on PPE and critical equipment like respirators.

Nurses who have brought in their own masks to wear have been threatened with getting fired for doing so.

Why are we fighting smart prudent steps when we all share the common goal of minimizing covid-19’s impact on society?

Why are we suppressing one of the single simplest, cheapest and most effective tactics we have in the war against this pandemic? We should be encouraging EVERYONE to wear a mask, of nearly any type.

A citizen DIY movement, not unlike the WW2 victory gardens, could and should be promoted, making millions of masks in short order for us all to wear — just as they’re doing in the Czech Republic with the #Masks4All movement:

Seriously, if we all wear masks, wash our hands frequently and don’t touch our faces, our odds of making through this epidemic skyrocket.

It’s an easy goal that’s right in our grasp. It shouldn’t be this hard…

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126 Comments

  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 3:35pm

    #1
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 690

    1+

    It wont be long now - My Prediction

    I predict very soon we will see significant social unrest in the form of John Q type scenario.

    Its starting:

    https://abc7ny.com/6047354/

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 3:39pm

    #2
    JudyFent

    JudyFent

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    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 4

    7+

    Top Korean Doc says, "Wear Mask."

    The top South Korean doctor for COVID-19 was intereviewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7aX5hksU   He says wearing a mask definitely helps prevent spread of infection, and the we in the West need to be humble about it.  I transcribed most of the inverview...let me know if you'd like a copy. -Judy

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 4:40pm

    #3
    centroid

    centroid

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 75

    centroid said:

    australian government sponsored talk where "experts" say masks not important:

    During this interview , at the 36 minute mark very irresponsible remarks were made:

    https://iview.abc.net.au/show/national-press-club-address

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 5:53pm

    #4
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 690

    3+

    Homemade Ventilator

    I know people have spoken about Cpap or biPap getting you close to simulation of a mini vent.   But, now I am reading that MIT - has been working on an open source Vent using the standard resucitation bags.. called the MIT e-vent.

    I don't quite have a machine shop at my hands, but I think I can knock one of these off - trying to get a copy of schematics now.

    Edit: You could pull down the DFX file here  https://e-vent.mit.edu/mechanical/

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:45pm

    #5

    Michael_Armstrong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 28 2011

    Posts: 11

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    Another reason to wear masks

    "The two-metre social distancing rule being used to keep people apart may need to be four times bigger to prevent coronavirus from spreading, a new study suggests." https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/two-metres-not-enough-when-social-distancing-39083182.html

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:56pm

    #6

    guardia

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 26 2009

    Posts: 55

    2+

    Experience from Japan

    Masks do help, but they are probably not enough. This is what Tokyo looks like since January, with at least 90% of people wearing masks, schools closed, most events cancelled, and many working remotely, but it's still about to go into lockdown:

    https://www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-explainers/2020/3/28/21196382/japan-coronavirus-cases-covid-19-deaths-quarantine

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:12pm

    #7
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    Chicago: Baby who tested positive for COVID-19 died today

    Oh dear, a child younger than one year old who tested positive for CV died today in Chicago. Beyond sad. There was one 10-month old in China with CV, but had other medical complications. The one is the US is a first, apparently. Details pending.

    https://www.chicagobusiness.com/government/baby-who-tested-positive-covid-19-dies

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:27pm

    #8
    Breaksea

    Breaksea

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    Immunity

    My now 87 year old mother tells me that she spent 5 months in hospital as a 5 year old with Polio. She was then able to safely work with Polio patients when she became a nurse.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:30pm

    #9

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

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    Remember the leaked China videos with people dropping in the streets?

    Spread of coronavirus accelerates in U.S. jails and prisons
    Inmates have no access to gloves or proper masks and have only cold water to wash their hands, said Hernandez, who was convicted of attempted murder and has served eight years. He said inmates watched on Thursday as a guard coughed, her cheeks turned red and she collapsed to the ground.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-inmates-insigh/spread-of-coronavirus-accelerates-in-u-s-jails-and-prisons-idUSKBN21F0TM

    ===============================

     

    https://www.ibtimes.sg/china-virus-chilling-videos-wuhan-show-coronavirus-infected-men-women-collapsing-streets-38246

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nAPp0a4cks

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:40pm

    #10
    Gary.NH

    Gary.NH

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    N95 Masks In-Stock at Envo Mask

    Hello all,

    www.envomask.com

    I’m just passing along a resource for in-stock N95 masks.   I’ve bought these masks for my family, and strongly recommend them.  They are a reusable mask with replaceable filters.   I’ve used many respirators over the years for home construction projects and these mask far exceed any previous product I’ve used for fit, quality, and durability.  They’re a small New Hampshire company that seems a bit overwhelmed by the sudden demand…so please be patient with their need for 7-10 days to get the product out the door.   The six other people I know that bought from Envo have all received them.

    Also please note that most major supermarkets and big box stores in NH are all limiting purchases of food and supplies.    Some shops have a strict limit of 2 per item….some allow as many as 8 per item.   It’s getting tough to stock the pantry without making multiple trips into a sea of shoppers…none of which are wearing masks.

    Feel free to PM with any further questions.   GLTA…Gary, NH

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #11
    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Highlights from Dr. Lei Zhao's lecture on Wuhan Union Hospital experience

    I just listened to a lecture by Dr. Lei Zhao, Infectious disease. on the Pandemic at Wuhan Union Hospital, the largest hospital in the city of Wuhan.  He had done a post doc at Harvard and was interviewed by a family Practioner in the San Francisco Bay area.

    He stated that Wuhan had 50,006 cases Positive and no new cases since 2/26
    Hubei had positive ->67,801 cases and no new cases since 3/25
    He treated 96 patients in his 3 month experience at Wuhan and has no pediatric experience.  He said no child died in Wuhan.
    Wuhan went into lockdown on January 23, 2020.  Their peak was ~February 13 when they combined clinical Nucleic acid testing
    2 Hospitals were built in 2 weeks- Huoshenshan + Leishenshan
    1000 patients were admitted to each hospital and received care starting on Feb. 3, 2020
    All stadiums, convention centers, and warehouses were converted into hospitals overnight.
    They housed the mild and no symptom (positive) patients
    They were all placed in isolation and monitored.
    The city was on STRICT LOCKDOWN
    -Volunteers delivered food to the residents (paid for by the government)
    There was no leaving the home.
    ALL were locked down- ALL stores were closed.
    You were tested if you symptoms and all your close contacts.
    You were treated with Antivirals, symptom relief, given Herbal Chinese medicine
    [All his patients would have been started on standard Chinese medicine]
    Temperature was monitored
    All practiced Tai chi for exercise every day.
    A physician and nurse monitored these patients and gave meds.
    As soon as you became severe you were transferred to a hospital
    At first, when the positive patients stayed home, everyone in the family became sick
    Therefore everyone was that was found to be positive was ISOLATED AWAY from home.
    42,000 Medical personnel were sent in from all over the country.
    28,600 Nurses made up 68% of the medical team
    1/2 of the workforce was from outside the city.
    Other area sent PPE + medical equipment, physicians and nurses, lung specialists, intensive care doctors.
    ....
    MASKS to prevent Covid 10 were supplied to decrease droplet aerosols to EVERYONE.  He said this was the most important thing for prevention.
    Central airconditioning was not safe - Only 1 room air conditioners were allowed.
    He basically treated everyone with Chinese medicine, Alpha interferon 5 million U +2ml sterile water by atomization inhalation twice a day and
    Arbidol 200 mg 3 times a day for adults- no longer than 10days. to decrease viral replication.  He listed other drugs including chloroquine but did not seem to have used it. Arbidol is not approved by our FDA.
    He could not say what worked better - Chinese Medicine are drugs as they were both given by him at the same time.
    When patients were discharged they had to go back into a place of quarantine for 2 weeks.  He thought cases of reinfection were simply false negatives.
    They started a more strict discharge criteria:
    Normal temp for >3 days
    Respiratory symptoms improved
    Pulmonary imaging had to show absorption of inflammation
    Nucleic acid test had to be negative 2 times separated by 24 hours
    Respiratory sputum and nasopharyngeal swabs had to be negative 2 times separated by 24 hours.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:49pm

    #12
    Hohhot

    Hohhot

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    Wearing Masks- The politicians have once again triumphed over known science

    As a person with over 25 years of patient contact, I was puzzled by the selective disregard for known isolation procedures, promising medical interventions, etc. by CDC, WHO, and various governors and mayors. It dawned on me today: If you can call someone with two testicles, a penis, and a prostate a woman, and compel others to treat them medically as such, then you can pick and choose any facts you like about Covid19 based on political or ideological leanings. As my old statistics professor stated about unscrupulous researchers, “They torture the data until it confesses the desired outcome.”

    1) Michigan governor- “Can't use chloroquine as untested and doctors are hoarding it.” *The FDA routinely permits "off-brand" usage of drugs as long as the prescriber advises the patient of potential side effects. Lyrica is only documented to help specific nerve related pain, but is routinely prescribed for psychiatric uses. Since it’s one of the world’s most profitable drugs, no one is too upset.

    https://www.fda.gov/patients/learn-about-expanded-access-and-other-treatment-options/understanding-unapproved-use-approved-drugs-label

    2) “Chloroquine isn't safe or proven.” *If you can allow thousands of children/teens to undergo hormonal therapies, which have NO SAFETY documentation and leaves them sterile, why dispute a treatment that uses an old drug to treat a pandemic? It has multiple current studies usually in combination with other things like azithromycin, and was found to inhibit SARS back in 2005.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

    According to CDC's malarial fact sheet, it is safe enough to give women through all three trimesters of pregnancy. Eye issues are not common, and reported usually after 5 years of constant use.

    3) “Masks should be used by sick people to stop spread (true), and only doctors and nurses should wear one on special occasions, because they might get sick, but not anyone else.(lie)” * Infection control procedures that have been in place since Florence in the Crimean War, state the healthy wear masks to prevent infection. Since the mask warehouses were depleted in 2009 during H1N1 and never restocked by CDC, I'm shocked there is a shortage. (src) CDC's own procedural instructions for droplet and airborne precautions require masks if within 6-10 feet of a SARS patient's room. I guess they forgot that part.

    https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/isolation/scientific-review.html

    4) “Mayors of NYC and New Orleans are outraged their cities are epicenters of infection after both promoted celebrations (Chinese New Year and Mardi Gras) involving thousands of people despite warnings of person to person spread.  Trump must be to blame.” *I'm not sure how that logic works.  How is putting out statements like "go out and live your life...go to the movies" while cutting subway service resulting in cramming commuters together anyone's decision but yours?  Gov. Cuomo just admitted having several thousand unused ventilators "waiting for the need.”  Excuse me, …what did you just say?

    https://newsthud.com/watch-cuomo-admits-stockpile-of-ventilators-that-have-not-been-distributed-to-hospitals-yet/

    6 ft. isn't adequate. It has been proven by the Hunan bus cluster study that the virus is airborne- it stayed suspended for over 30 minutes and traveled 17 ft.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3074351/coronavirus-can-travel-twice-far-official-safe-distance-and-stay

     

    “Hey politicians and medical administrators, here’s an idea…admit you screwed up and help us come up with solutions. We’ll do an after-action review later, for now, just give me the info and we’ll get on it.”

    American seamstresses have risen to the call and are producing thousands of DIY masks for themselves and others. YT is full of tutorials.  Elastic is sold out even on-line.

    Why don’t we see more of things like this from our officials? Educate, educate, educate!

    Great DIY mask info as well as other precautions from HKG doctor.

    https://diymask.site/

     

    Whenever the officials spend more time telling me “not to panic” than doing something about it, I know they are utterly clueless.

     

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:19pm

    #13

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

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    Sobering Article - "We're Failing Doctors"

    From a doctor on the front line

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/were-failing-doctors/608662/

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:35pm

    Boomer41

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 30 2008

    Posts: 139

    6+

    Envo Mask has one-way protection.

    The Envo N-95 mask has a one-way exhalation valve. This means that the mask might protect the wearer, but it is useless in preventing that person from spreading the virus.

    This is true for all masks and respirators with one-way exhalation valves.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:47pm

    #15
    ao

    ao

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    On the Worldometer site, under Closed Cases, Deaths now up to 18%

    The slope of the curve still is near vertical with no signs of abating.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:52pm

    #16
    MayS

    MayS

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    About those numbers from China...

    "Under its newest COVID-19 prevention guidelines, China does not include in its overall daily count for total and for new cases those who retest positive after being released from medical care. China also does not include asymptomatic cases in case counts."
    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/27/822407626/mystery-in-wuhan-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-negative-then-positive

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 10:05pm

    #17
    pgp

    pgp

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    Joined: Mar 01 2014

    Posts: 169

    Bad advice

    It's not often that PP gives bad advice.  Or perhaps its intentional prepper-talk to drum up more business.

    if there were 10 billion masks in the world and the sustainability of producing them wasnt in question, I might overlook the rhetoric.  However it is irresponsible to suggest we all need to wear masks when there are barely enough to go round, even for medicsl staff on the growing front lines.

    We should all try focussing on the science of risk and be practical about dealing with it.  Otherwise we run the risk of destroying our credibility and losing the ear of the people we really need to reach.

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 10:44pm

    #18
    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

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    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

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    Wearing masks may well be recommended soon

    Or mandated? Except that it is very difficult to buy masks, and even to make them - hard to find elastic anywhere, though I guess you can sew masks without elastic.

    This is what I am reading on the twitter feeds of some of the folks on the cutting edge of news like Dr. Scott Gottlieb: https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1243931750989955072?s=20

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 10:51pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    Sound advice

    I respectfully disagree with you.  The advice to wear a mask is sound.  Those that planned have masks.  Those that didn't plan may still make or aquire a mask(s).  Where there is a will, there is a way.  I posted a previous comment on how to quickly, easily, and inexpensively make a mask.   Everyone, EVERYONE should be wearing a mask and gloves if possible when the need to go to town becomes a necessity.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=paper+towel+rubberband+mask&&view=detail&mid=9ED56829DEE97D00EBD89ED56829DEE97D00EBD8&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dpaper%2Btowel%2Brubberband%2Bmask%26FORM%3DVDVVXX

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 11:10pm

    centroid

    centroid

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    centroid said:

    masks without valves or masks with valves still reduce the probability of transmission and if EVERYONE is wearing a mask then an exhaust valve matters even less, because if everyone is wearing a mask, then you cannot receive the exhaust gasses from someone else.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 11:29pm

    #21
    Time2help

    Time2help

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    Do-It-Yourself Masks (at home)

    For those with skills:

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:08am

    joanna840

    joanna840

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    Please stop the transphobia

    Not really the forum to have a transphobic rant.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:10am

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 416

    5+

    Choices

    Fence at top of cliff,

    OR no fence and a sign saying 'no danger here' and ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

    hmmmm

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:20am

    #24
    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 144

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    Its been a tough week here...

    My Wife who I have said is a Manager of Ortho-Neuro and Oncology but runs her full unit on Ortho-Neuro as a dedicated 36 bed unit for the Honey Badger Virus. Well, 7 members of her staff are now sick. Their swabbed a we await the results, hopefully today. Barb's boss has tested positive and was probably infected outside the hospital. So, our brave front, my brave front has took a severe blow. I cannot live without my Lady, she doesn't have to do this, money and retirement are preserved. Barb does it because it is one of mankind's worst virus outbreak ever, one for the ages and she is compelled to do her part. I call bullshit to that! Why! The hospital has been late to the party and are still woefully out of touch. Since early January I have badgered my wife about "what is the hospital doing" to get prepared? I seen all of this coming as I stayed focused on what was happening in China and I just felt masks would be the simplest and easiest way to combat this way back in early January and I'm a house painter. A knucklehead who isn't suppose to even be interested in this. Well, I can say with all honesty, I have been ahead of this virus way before the truly stupid and many of them are Doctors at the hospital. If Barb, my wife were to walk and she may be forced to by me, she would walk out with many of her nurses in tow. Hospitals by nature are a conflicting bunch. They do such honorable work but they are greedy son's of a bitches. It is their greed and bullying that has me fighting mad. I want mask's, I want masks handed out to every citizen, I want fines applied to anyone not wearing a mask severe enough to wake these people the fuck up. When Barb's boss tested positive was the last straw. No I don't admire the medical field when doctors brow beat the nurses who give 90 percent of care to not wear masks because the real reason is he didn't see this coming (NOT a good excuse) and didn't order enough supplies. My God, it's an easy call the it be required to maintained so many reduntant supply's in some wearhouse where hospitals order from. In the case of a serious blow they would have more than enough supplies to handle any emergency. Instead we play this "just in time" bullshit ordering system. I just don't understand. No, I understand, I just think those in charge are stupid, stupid, stupid because the most valuable resourse is our nurses and their treated professionally like shit. It isn't about money but I wish one really gifted nurse who commanded attention would fight for better working conditions, have an insurance policy to pay one and a half times salary for whatever time is lost to sickness of a virus or anything while at work, and an immediate 20% pay raise for the duration of this virus, retroactive and immediate!. That would be a cheap costs too. Imagine a nurse strike?! They wouldn't, I'm only asking they threat to do so and all would be given to them. That's their true value and I am certain they would be treated more intelligently, with more professionalism. Do you know that nurses are the ones who catch the most med errors that doctors prescribe and this is done by trying to read the worst handwriting on the planet. Not even a thank you is given to these high character nurses. I do not hold doctors in high esteem. Too many are drug pushers looking to make whatever they can. Shit man, the opioids pandemic is all on them and the governments push to treat pain at all costs and they have the balls to point a finger at their patience who now have a dependency!? Paaalease! I want to confront the Doctor myself who is giving the no mask argument. I would have him on his knees in tears just using simple logic. He was probably on his high school debating team take both sides of an argument. He's ridiculous, I knew and I'm a knucklehead that masks were the most important tool to fight this virus from early January on.  He simply messed up and now a brilliant nurse is at home, with her 5 year old who has breathing issues anyways and now they deal with what they must, just trying to stay alive. I had a long talk with Barb and gave her my ultimatum, yes Lady's, an ultimatum: If the hospital do not pull it together and protect her, and Barb's staff better, then she's coming home. If I have to drag her from the back of her hair, she is coming home. We'll pack up everything and head for the woods, get our garden ready and all other chores done and wait this out. No martyrs in my family, especially when I have to hear of story's from a Doctor saying masks are unnecessary. I cannot believe we are still talking about this or not giving at least Chloroquine hydroxide to all positive patients who just tested positive. They get an immediate dosing. I am very disappointed. Chris, you never stop with your message until we get a vaccine, you have been a gift to the human race and need to keep doing what you have. Included in your praise is the outstanding work Adam does to get your message out. I think the both of you should be cited an "American Hero" for doing what you are doing. Peace

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:30am

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 416

    2+

    A little sensitive are we?

    PC costs lives...

    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:01am

    #26

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    8+

    China intentionally released Covid19

    Interesting perspective from a friend:

    WELL PLAYED CHINA....

    China becomes ill, enters a "crisis" and paralyzes its trade. The curtain closes.

    The Chinese currency is devalued. They do not do anything. The curtain closes.

    Due to the lack of trade of companies from Europe and the USA that are based in China, their shares fall 40% of their value.

    The world is ill, China buys 30% of the shares of companies in Europe and the US at a very low price. The curtain closes.

    China has controlled the disease and owns companies in Europe and the US. And he decides that these companies stay in China and earn $ 20,000Billions. The curtain closes. How is the play called?

    *Checkmate!*

    *ReAmazing but true*

    Two videos have passed that convinced me of something I suspected, but had no basis. It was just my speculation. Now I am convinced that the coronavirus was purposely propagated by the Chinese themselves.

    At first they were too prepared. Three weeks after the start of the roll, 14 days and a 12,000-bed hospitals were already under construction. And they really built them in two weeks.

    Awesome.

    China announced that they had stopped the epidemic. They appear in videos celebrating, they announce that they even have a vaccine. How could they create it so quickly without having all the genetic information? Well if you are the owner of the formula it is not difficult at all.
    And today I just saw a video that explains how Den Xiao Ping gave the west a half stick. Due to the coronavirus, the actions of Western companies in China fell dramatically. China I just hope, when they went down enough they bought them. Now the companies, Created by the USA and Europe in China with all the technology put in by these exchanges and their capital they passed into the hands of China, which is now rising with all that technological potential and will be able to set prices at will to sell everything they need to the West. How are you?

    None of this could have happened by chance. China who cared that a few old men died? Fewer old-age pensions to pay, but the loot has been huge. And right now the West is financially defeated, in crisis and stunned by the disease. And without knowing what to do.

    Masterfully diabolic. It had to be the communists.

    Adding to this, they are now the single largest owners of US treasury with 1.18 trillion holding surpassing Japan.
    An instrument that has seen the most rally

    One ☝ prospective & Analogy

    How come Russia & North Korea have Low or Zero incidence of Covid- 19 ?

    Is it because they are staunch allies of China

    On the other hand USA / South Korea / United Kingdom / France / Italy / Spain and Asia are severely hit

    How come Wuhan is suddenly free from the deadly virus?

    China says that the drastic initial measures that they took were very stern and Wuhan was locked down to contain the spread to other areas

    Why Beijing was not hit ? Why only Wuhan?

    It is interesting to ponder upon.. right ?

    Well ..Wuhan is open for business now

    Covid - 19 needs to be seen in the backdrop of the arm twisting of China by USA in the trade war

    America and all the above mentioned countries are devastated financially

    Soon American economy will collapse as planned by China.

    China knows it CANNOT defeat America militarily as USA is at present THE MOST POWERFUL country in the world.

    So use the virus...to cripple the economy and paralyse the nation and its Defense
    Wuhan's epidemic was a showcase.

    At the peak of the virus epidemic....China's President Xi Jinping...just wore a simple RM1 facemask to visit those effected areas.

    As President he should have been covered from head to toe.....but that was not the case.

    He was already injected to resist any harm from the virus....that means a cure was already in place before the virus was released

    China's vision is to control the World ECONOMY by buying up stocks now from countries facing the brink of severe ECONOMIC COLLAPSE.....Later China will announce that their Medical Researchers have found a cure to destroy the virus

    Now China shall OWN the stocks of All Western Alliances and these countries will soon be slave to their NEW MASTER..... CHINA:

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:34am

    #27
    Les Francis

    Les Francis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 29 2020

    Posts: 1

    8+

    ER doctors comments from Wolf Ricters site.

    Robert
    Mar 28, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    This from an E.R. doctor in the front line trenches in Louisiana (highly technical, but note, especially for those advocating massive industrial diversion to crank out ventilators his observation that 80% of those going on ventilators die):
    “I am an ER MD in New Orleans. Class of 98. Every one of my colleagues have now seen several hundred Covid 19 patients and this is what I think I know.

    Clinical course is predictable.
    2-11 days after exposure (day 5 on average) flu like symptoms start. Common are fever, headache, dry cough, myalgias(back pain), nausea without vomiting, abdominal discomfort with some diarrhea, loss of smell, anorexia, fatigue.

    Day 5 of symptoms- increased SOB, and bilateral viral pneumonia from direct viral damage to lung parenchyma.

    Day 10- Cytokine storm leading to acute ARDS and multiorgan failure. You can literally watch it happen in a matter of hours.

    81% mild symptoms, 14% severe symptoms requiring hospitalization, 5% critical.

    Patient presentation is varied. Patients are coming in hypoxic (even 75%) without dyspnea. I have seen Covid patients present with encephalopathy, renal failure from dehydration, DKA. I have seen the bilateral interstitial pneumonia on the xray of the asymptomatic shoulder dislocation or on the CT’s of the (respiratory) asymptomatic polytrauma patient. Essentially if they are in my ER, they have it. Seen three positive flu swabs in 2 weeks and all three had Covid 19 as well. Somehow this ***** has told all other disease processes to get out of town.

    China reported 15% cardiac involvement. I have seen covid 19 patients present with myocarditis, pericarditis, new onset CHF and new onset atrial fibrillation. I still order a troponin, but no cardiologist will treat no matter what the number in a suspected Covid 19 patient. Even our non covid 19 STEMIs at all of our facilities are getting TPA in the ED and rescue PCI at 60 minutes only if TPA fails.

    Diagnostic
    CXR- bilateral interstitial pneumonia (anecdotally starts most often in the RLL so bilateral on CXR is not required). The hypoxia does not correlate with the CXR findings. Their lungs do not sound bad. Keep your stethoscope in your pocket and evaluate with your eyes and pulse ox.

    Labs- WBC low, Lymphocytes low, platelets lower then their normal, Procalcitonin normal in 95%
    CRP and Ferritin elevated most often. CPK, D-Dimer, LDH, Alk Phos/AST/ALT commonly elevated.
    Notice D-Dimer- I would be very careful about CT PE these patients for their hypoxia. The patients receiving IV contrast are going into renal failure and on the vent sooner.

    Basically, if you have a bilateral pneumonia with normal to low WBC, lymphopenia, normal procalcitonin, elevated CRP and ferritin- you have covid-19 and do not need a nasal swab to tell you that.

    A ratio of absolute neutrophil count to absolute lymphocyte count greater than 3.5 may be the highest predictor of poor outcome. the UK is automatically intubating these patients for expected outcomes regardless of their clinical presentation.

    An elevated Interleukin-6 (IL6) is an indicator of their cytokine storm. If this is elevated watch these patients closely with both eyes.

    Other factors that appear to be predictive of poor outcomes are thrombocytopenia and LFTs 5x upper limit of normal.

    Disposition
    I had never discharged multifocal pneumonia before. Now I personally do it 12-15 times a shift. 2 weeks ago we were admitting anyone who needed supplemental oxygen. Now we are discharging with oxygen if the patient is comfortable and oxygenating above 92% on nasal cannula. We have contracted with a company that sends a paramedic to their home twice daily to check on them and record a pulse ox. We know many of these patients will bounce back but if it saves a bed for a day we have accomplished something. Obviously we are fearful some won’t make it back.

    We are a small community hospital. Our 22 bed ICU and now a 4 bed Endoscopy suite are all Covid 19. All of these patients are intubated except one. 75% of our floor beds have been cohorted into covid 19 wards and are full. We are averaging 4 rescue intubations a day on the floor. We now have 9 vented patients in our ER transferred down from the floor after intubation.

    Luckily we are part of a larger hospital group. Our main teaching hospital repurposed space to open 50 new Covid 19 ICU beds this past Sunday so these numbers are with significant decompression. Today those 50 beds are full. They are opening 30 more by Friday. But even with the “lockdown”, our AI models are expecting a 200-400% increase in covid 19 patients by 4/4/2020.

    Treatment
    Supportive

    worldwide 86% of covid 19 patients that go on a vent die. Seattle reporting 70%. Our hospital has had 5 deaths and one patient who was extubated. Extubation happens on day 10 per the Chinese and day 11 per Seattle.

    Plaquenil which has weak ACE2 blockade doesn’t appear to be a savior of any kind in our patient population. Theoretically, it may have some prophylactic properties but so far it is difficult to see the benefit to our hospitalized patients, but we are using it and the studies will tell. With Plaquenil’s potential QT prolongation and liver toxic effects (both particularly problematic in covid 19 patients), I am not longer selectively prescribing this medication as I stated on a previous post.

    We are also using Azithromycin, but are intermittently running out of IV.

    Do not give these patient’s standard sepsis fluid resuscitation. Be very judicious with the fluids as it hastens their respiratory decompensation. Outside the DKA and renal failure dehydration, leave them dry.

    Proning vented patients significantly helps oxygenation. Even self proning the ones on nasal cannula helps.

    Vent settings- Usual ARDS stuff, low volume, permissive hypercapnia, etc. Except for Peep of 5 will not do. Start at 14 and you may go up to 25 if needed.

    Do not use Bipap- it does not work well and is a significant exposure risk with high levels of aerosolized virus to you and your staff. Even after a cough or sneeze this virus can aerosolize up to 3 hours.

    The same goes for nebulizer treatments. Use MDI. you can give 8-10 puffs at one time of an albuterol MDI. Use only if wheezing which isn’t often with covid 19. If you have to give a nebulizer must be in a negative pressure room; and if you can, instruct the patient on how to start it after you leave the room.

    Do not use steroids, it makes this worse. Push out to your urgent cares to stop their usual practice of steroid shots for their URI/bronchitis.

    We are currently out of Versed, Fentanyl, and intermittently Propofol. Get the dosing of Precedex and Nimbex back in your heads.

    One of my colleagues who is a 31 yo old female who graduated residency last may with no health problems and normal BMI is out with the symptoms and an SaO2 of 92%. She will be the first of many.

    I PPE best I have. I do wear a MaxAir PAPR the entire shift. I do not take it off to eat or drink during the shift. I undress in the garage and go straight to the shower. My wife and kids fled to her parents outside Hattiesburg. The stress and exposure at work coupled with the isolation at home is trying. But everyone is going through something right now. Everyone is scared; patients and employees. But we are the leaders of that emergency room. Be nice to your nurses and staff. Show by example how to tackle this crisis head on. Good luck to us all

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 6:04am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5297

    26+

    Combating Bad Advice

    It’s not often that PP gives bad advice.  Or perhaps its intentional prepper-talk to drum up more business.

    if there were 10 billion masks in the world and the sustainability of producing them wasnt in question, I might overlook the rhetoric.  However it is irresponsible to suggest we all need to wear masks when there are barely enough to go round, even for medicsl staff on the growing front lines.

    We should all try focussing on the science of risk and be practical about dealing with it.  Otherwise we run the risk of destroying our credibility and losing the ear of the people we really need to reach.

    You can get right the heck out of here with your horrible, terrible, nonsensical "counter advice."

    This post of yours is already stale.  The entire world woke up yesterday to the idea that everyone needs to wear a mask.  It's scientific, backed up by data, logical, and responsible.

    To suggest ('charge'?) that I am promoting #masksforeveryone to "drum up business" is deeply offensive.

    Because your entire post is not at all grounded in logic, or data, or defensible in any way and lacking in any generosity of interpretation towards myself or this site, I am going to chalk it up to an awkward adjustment reaction.

    But let me be clear - I have zero tolerance these days for anti-scientific political talking points that come from the WHO or CDC.

    Ain't nobody got time for that.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 6:27am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 634

    12+

    This is nonsense

    However it is irresponsible to suggest we all need to wear masks when there are barely enough to go round, even for medicsl staff on the growing front lines.

    Obviously you missed the video showing the Chezk Republic going 100% masks.

    Granted there are not enough to go around right now, but how many people in the US have sewing machines?  How many people have material laying around, or even old clothing that they can make into masks?

    We need to stop waiting for someone else to save us, roll up our sleeves and get to work saving ourselves and helping others.  That's the only way we come out of this with something positive to look back on.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 6:35am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    14+

    Incremental adjustment to mask type.

    Everyone wear masks is now proven to work  (Czech Republic) and very achievable.

    Start with a bandana or any covering....50% effective

    Upgrade to a homemade sewn mask....more effective

    Put a sleeve in a homemade mask with vacuum cleaner filter media.....more effective

    Buy N95 masks when they become available....soon....most effective.

    I am in rural Texas where we have few reported cases. I was one of 4 people wearing a mask at the grocery store. I have some 3m N95’s purchased in January cause Chris alerted me. I wore a bandana over it so that I would look cool.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 6:59am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 144

    3+

    planfortomorrow said:

    Right you are Chris. I trust nothing that doesn't pass the logic test. You mention and I have in ever argument I have with people that talk down mask: your mask wearing protects me and my mask wearing protects me. Then I ask, do I think this simple mask wearing idea a good idea? My brain immediately screams: WELL!, HELL YEAH IT DOES!!! DAH! Chris, don't even bother with stupid, we need you doing what you do and you said yourself and I agree: every second matters. This bullshit is an easy "stupid' so pass them by. Great work Brother, Adam, you too. Chris is the headline by nature but your work is equally important. Plus, I sense you are a truly good guy and a walk the walk type. Peace

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 7:02am

    BillL

    BillL

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    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    Just a heads up...

    Still quite a bit of cog dis/normalcy bias in that rant.

    Check your six.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 7:04am

    #33
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5297

    8+

    Fighting the Good Fight on Twitter

    DTrammel you will appreciate this I think...I am continuing to try and raise awareness where ever and however I can:

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 7:37am

    #34

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    11+

    My Morning Chuckle, Thanks hohot

    It dawned on me today: If you can call someone with two testicles, a penis, and a prostate a woman, and compel others to treat them medically as such, then you can pick and choose any facts you like about Covid19 based on political or ideological leanings.

    Aman

    AKGranny

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 7:46am

    #35
    Carlene

    Carlene

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2010

    Posts: 3

    Family doctor in the Netherlands tries to gets his message about face mask (in)to the government

    Dutch family physician/doctor Walter Schrader from Leiden has written an Open Letter to the governement of the Netherlands stating that he has a plan to arrange face masks for every dutch citizen in just a few days. He tries to gets his message through which does not seem so easy yet. Here is his Open Letter (in dutch, but google translate will probably be willen to help):  www.pdfarchief.com/openbrief.pdf

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 7:53am

    Amanda Schrader

    Amanda Schrader

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 1

    4+

    A facebook profile picture

    A Facebook profile picture

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:06am

    #37
    LesterFinn

    LesterFinn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 4

    3+

    WaPo article: Wear a Mask

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/28/masks-all-coronavirus/

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:12am

    #38

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 400

    2+

    New York statistics look Grim

    First total tests.  We're up to 0.8% of the entire population:

    Now positives.  Now at 0.3% of the population.  The tail in the exponential rate is hopefully good news but is likely be related to testing which also tails off recently:

    Hospitalizations keeping in mind pre-pandemic bed numbers were 53000 with 3000 ventilators - growing more or less exponentially:

    Deaths - also growing exponentially:

    Now a look at positive test rate.  How much does this represent the underlying rate in the population and how much is selection bias?

    The early days with few tests are excluded.  Positive rate seems to be approaching 50%.

    And finally positive rate by region:

    New York City and most suburban counties are around 0.35%.  Westchester is 0.81%.  Upstate is at 0.05%.  True infection rates are probably 1-6% downstate.  At a doubling time of let's say 5 days, that's herd immunity in under a month, but the next few weeks will likely be tragic.  Unfortunately, the next week or two of deaths is already in the pipeline with incubating cases.  But the majority of the tragedy is at least 2 weeks out - not too late to get masks for all and truly flatten the curve.

    Call to action for everyone in New York (and elsewhere):  Let's flood social media and the governor's office with requests for Andrew Cuomo and his staff to wear hand-sewn masks at the next press conference!

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:13am

    #39

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    2+

    We have discussed details, are you ready for a big picture discussion?

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:27am

    #40
    curlyschat1

    curlyschat1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 25 2013

    Posts: 1

    Micheal Greger's lecture on Pandemics and factory farming presented over 10 years ago.

    An excellent fact based lecture on Nutritionfacts.org and youtube called Pandemics: History and Prevention. This lecture was presented over 10 years ago.... We have ignored the tragedy of factory farming and the proverbial chicken has come home to roost!

     

    https://nutritionfacts.org/video/pandemics-history-prevention/?utm_source=NutritionFacts.org&utm_campaign=602d431cbe-RSS_VIDEO_WEEKLY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_40f9e497d1-602d431cbe-27474449&mc_cid=602d431cbe&mc_eid=0b615ebf9e

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:37am

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 123

    8+

    Assume Good Intent

    Joanna840: Hohhot had one sentence out of a long and useful post that you object to on ideological grounds.  That is hardly a rant.

    You don't know enough about Hohhot to stigmatize him/her on those grounds, or to apply that emotionally-charged label. We need to assume good intent on the part of our fellow beings until we know differently--otherwise we assume too many people are "deplorable" when the only supporting evidence for that is that they hold different opinions.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:48am

    #42

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    3+

    New Topic?

    It is being reported that a lot of people hooked up to respirators are dying alone.  If approximately 80% of those on respirators don’t make it, would it be better to die in the arms of a loved one than isolated and alone?  Our healthcare system has failed us.  You won’t be allowed to hold their hand, provide love and comfort.  Have you considered this?

    My opinion, no one should have to die alone.  But then I was there for my Mom, my Dad and my Brother.  Are you willing to shove a loved one into an overworked, perhaps understaffed hospital and know if they die, they will die alone?

    Something to think about. What would you want?

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:58am

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 308

    7+

    DIY mask materials - shirt sleeves + odd socks

    If you want to make a DIY mask but don't have craft fabric on hand, consider your dish towels as a source for finely woven fabric.

    Also, check your closet for a long sleeved shirt that you could convert to short sleeves. Cut off part of the sleeves, then cut the sleeve material to shape, according to your mask pattern. Go back later to hem the cut-off sleeves.

    Also consider: socks. A sock can be cut into a flat piece of knit material useful for one of your mask layers. At last, a use for orphan socks!

    You could make a fabric mask without a sewing machine, as long as you have a needle and thread. If you don't have elastic, create fabric straps that could be tied around your ears or your head.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:59am

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    4+

    The problem is it is a pandemic

    The problem is it is a pandemic and they are infectious.  The medical system is not failing us.  It is always our choice on what treatment we want or where to die.  Except in a disease outbreak like this it is necessary to have quarantine.  this is not the fault of our medical system ! And I am no fan of many practices in general, but in this, there is no choice once you go to the hospital there is then no way to safely leave while you are still infectuous.

    So, you have a choice for yourself and your loved ones, where do you want to be to ride out this illness ?  This is your choice.  You will need to stay in one spot and be quarantined while you have it.  You choose based on your own risk assessment, stay at home or go to the hospital.  I would think that what you choose would vary based on current conditions in your areas hospital and your age and health.  If you or your loved one is 80 years old and already ill, you may both choose to have this ill person stay at home where you provide the care and the household stays quarantined ( with neighbors dropping food on the doorstop) for the duration and 14 days after the ill person either gets better or passes away.  But, how is this choice the fault of the medical system ?  It is just a hard choice, but it is your choice.  I would likely choose to keep my ill parent at home to die if it were possible, most likely for most of us people live far apart, but that again is a choice,  when retired they could have chosen to move by family.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:11am

    #45
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 690

    3+

    Why no face mask law?

    Seems simple enough, want to leave the home , wear a mask.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:13am

    #46
    Wayne Swanson

    Wayne Swanson

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 29 2014

    Posts: 10

    16+

    I started wearing a mask today and felt like a newbie at a nudist colony.

    It's an adjustment, but not too bad.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:19am

    #47

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2404

    14+

    NYC COVID Deaths Today = 700+. Implications.

    The patchy use of the PCR testing makes analysis of the numbers of cases grossly inaccurate.  It is so easy to "Don't Test, Don't Tell" and happily point out the fall in new diagnoses and explain that this means we have "passed the peak."

    It is MUCH harder to hide the dead bodies, the numbers of 911 calls, and the exodus of people from NYC, the numbers of cremation urns, the closure of airports, collapse of container traffic and factories, traffic on streets.

    NYC COVID deaths today were 700+.  Yesterday 519.  The day before 370.  We are on a major upswing.

    h/t Quercus.  Thanks.

    Given the many factions downplaying this pandemic, it only makes sense to watch the body counts.

    # Deaths Today =  ~1%  x  #cases 14 days ago

    So for NYC

    700 = 1% x  70,000

    And the 70,000 cases 10 days ago grows 10 fold in 14 days to 700,000 cases today.

    This predicts 7,000 deaths in NYC 14 days from now.

    This is a prediction.  Lets test its accuracy.

    We really really wish that it was not so.  But it is.

    Stay frosty.

    -----

    "Frosty" here means STFH and Wear A Mask

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:36am

    #48
    Jeff

    Jeff

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 17 2012

    Posts: 68

    3+

    Quercetin as a possible Antiviral

    Been reading lots about quercetin.  Could not find any studies on its ability to fight the flu, corona virus’s.  It does seem that it can aid as a Zinc transporter, similar to chloroquine.  Here is a article talking about the effects on HIV.  Would love to know your thoughts Chris, seems like a potentially helpful not harmful supplement.
    https://www.quercetin.com/antiviral-and-immune-system/human-immunodeficiency-virus-hiv

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:46am

    KugsCheese

    KugsCheese

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 910

    4+

    Quercetin

    I learned about Quercetin back around 2006 from MD/PhD Darrell Tanelian (boy genius that entered Stanford at age 15).  It opens gap junctions (Connexins) in cells so nutrients can enter and be shared among other cells on needs basis.  Very complex interactions.  Life Extension makes Bio-Quercetin https://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item02302/Bio-Quercetin

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:56am

    #50

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    9+

    Mtnhousepermi

    The medical system is not failing us.

    I disagree.

    • There are not enough masks
    • There isn’t enough equipment
    • There aren’t enough tests
    • There are not adequate procedures for donning and doffing protective suits and equipment
    • There are not showers, washing machines etc for the ppe and clothing of staff
    • There are few adequate procedures for intake and transferring of infected individuals
    •  There is not a national procedural guide for each and every hospital to follow
    • There us not a specific “here is what you do” for the public
    • There is no humane way for families to be involved.
    • Medical professionals can provide copious more examples, no doubt

    The above reflects a failure of a world class state-of-the art healthcare system!  I believe we could do better and this crises reflects a monumental failure.

    So, you have a choice for yourself and your loved ones, where do you want to be to ride out this illness ?  This is your choice.

    Yes, it is.  But it’s not like we didn’t know about pandemics.  It was a choice not to plan for them.  The question is, do we accept the status quo or demand better for future generations?

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:58am

    #51
    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    dragging along

    The virus can only be stopped by a herd immunity or vaccin. Putting on masks will just slow it down. So we just stop the business for a year ?

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 10:07am

    Cribbage

    Cribbage

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 06 2020

    Posts: 13

    Quercetin

    is naturally found in Raspberry leaves. (as well as red fruits, grapes etc) Save your money and eat a natural plant source of this!

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 10:21am

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 109

    5+

    Stop with the “PC”

    This isn’t really the place for it. I didn’t once here any animosity towards those that choose to change themselves aesthetically to look like the opposite biological sex. What I heard was concern about the wisdom and practices in this area; and I share them especially in relation to children. If that was the intention, the commenter has company. I and many others are angry that we are expected, in our Orwellian world, to ignore biological reality in favour of your fiat in the language we use. I won’t...

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 10:45am

    #54
    Rbgodi

    Rbgodi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 14 2011

    Posts: 4

    Stop the fear porn

    On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 11:01am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1199

    4+

    Rbg.. you are falling into the trap of looking at CFR in isolation

    Whether the CFR ends up being 1% of 2% or 0.6% ... the real issue is the rate of transmission and the resultant overwhelming of our systems, medical and otherwise.  It's really just that simple.  We have to buy time.  I agree that we need to balance buying time with keeping our economy from completely imploding.. and indeed, the idea of, "everybody wear a mask" would be a really good step in that regard.  Stay healthy,  Jim

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 11:08am

    #56
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 690

    2+

    CFR- Calculation

    I think there has been well enough studies to give a "real" and accurate CFR on Covid 19.

    I know many can and will argue that many more may be infected.  But, there have been several cohort studies that follow a group.   The CDC and even WHO have concluded openly that 15% become serious and another 5% critical.   for a total of 20% serious enough to require medical intervention.  But looking at additional studies, it is clear that hospital mortality rate over-all for Covid is 30%.   That should give a very defined CFR.   My original thought was that 50% make it out of the ICU.  This is a statistical average , for all causes.   However, after studying the success of ventilation in the hospital setting,  it appears that 85-90% of these people will die.    Meaning, once you are on vent - damage is too far done.  And the couple % that do survive it , will likely be seriously disabled.

    My best guess the real CFR is 5-6%.    And based on age and health of population there is wiggle room there.

    The one thing that does not follow is the DP. Which looks to achieve about 1.5 %.   But it is obvious that most of these people were hospitalized as a precaution and were given treatment.  I would like to know what.  As early treatment before the body decompensates and cannot recover, may increase survival.  My question now is obvious, what treatment did they receive?  did they get antiviral?  did they get hydration? did they get supplemental oxygen?  or where they just cared so they managed to avoid secondary exposures or infections, including viral and bacterial ?pneumonias?

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 11:17am

    #57
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 104

    2+

    Suicide

    German secretary of finance of the state Hessen killed himself being "deeply worried about to deal with the economical impact of the virus"

    https://www.thelocal.de/20200329/german-minister-commits-suicide-due-to-coronavirus-worries

    A visibly shaken Bouffier recalled that Schaefer, who was  Hesse's finance chief for 10 years, had been working "day and night" to help companies and workers deal with the economic impact of the pandemic

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 11:19am

    #58
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 19 2011

    Posts: 51

    Diamond Princess Quarantine Blog

    Here's a link that is both enlightening and humorous.  There are 34 entries, so far, with more on the way.

    Carl Goldman Coronavirus Journals

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 11:44am

    #59
    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    16+

    ready for a bit of a chuckle?

    Seen in the personals: single man with toilet paper wishes to meet single woman with hand sanitizer for some good clean fun.

    What's the difference between covid19 and Romeo and Juliet? Covid19 is a corona virus--Romeo and Juliet were a Verona crisis.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 12:28pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    1+

    GrannyW -- Strawman arguments are not witty

     

    You quoted me out of context, which is not the way to make a point, as I NEVER said there weren't things wrong with the medical system in general !

    So, let's put that quote back in context

    The problem is it is a pandemic and they are infectious. The medical system is not failing us. It is always our choice on what treatment we want or where to die. Except in a disease outbreak like this it is necessary to have quarantine. this is not the fault of our medical system ! And I am no fan of many practices in general, but in this, there is no choice once you go to the hospital there is then no way to safely leave while you are still infectuous.

     

    While that is the biggest issue, taking the other person out of context to make your own point, there are in addition problems in logical connections here -- you are now changing your point, changing your point is not an argument to the point I was making.  I was responding to you initially saying that having someone die alone shows a fault in our medical system .  That is what you said.  I responded that while there are other flaws in the medical system  ( ie., I said "  I am no fan of many practices in general "  ) that this particular point was not the fault of the medical system, and then I wrote about why I thought that was the case.

    So, instead of contributing something to show why you think that the medical system could actually do something about someone dying alone during a pandemic, you now give a laundry list of other things wrong with the medical system.  And, take part of what I said out of context !  There are many things particular hospitals and doctors do that I find fault with ! But, each one is a seperate system, each practice and each hospital system, some are run well and some are not

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 12:41pm

    #61
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    1+

    Clif High

    For those of you that follow Clif and the chaga_gangstas, Clif has been kicked off twitter for recommending Vitamin C.  Soon to be de platformed from you tube as only a small, select group will be allowed to talk about Covid-19.

    Moved to Gab.ai as @clif_high

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 12:50pm

    #62

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    Mtnhousepermi

    Perhaps I did not state my opinion appropriately or clearly and should have been more careful to not give any offense.

    I responded that while there are other flaws in the medical system  ( ie., I said ”  I am no fan of many practices in general ”  ) that this particular point was not the fault of the medical system, and then I wrote about why I thought that was the case.

    I do think, not being able to be with a loved one while they are dying IS the fault of the medical system.  Having been with a number of people as they are dying it’s egregious and inexcusable.

    The point is - the system is structured for profit not for people.

    I am in agreement with your assessment of the system being lacking.  No offense was intended to you personally.  I do not think people have thought about what will happen if a loved one gets sick.  Think you and the other readers are ready to drop Mum off never to be seen again and get no say or input.  Something to think about.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 1:07pm

    #63
    schwedischdemokratischrepublik

    schwedischdemokratischrepublik

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 33

    Something's Rotten in the Kingdom of Sweden

    On Saturday, Sweden's public health authority reported there were no new deaths. That has been proven wrong, there was at least one death. A Swedish radio personality died Saturday of the virus, as reported by her daughter. Today (Sunday), they claim there are merely 5 new deaths. This despite there having been many more times that number of deaths for days. It doesn't seem likely or even possible that it would suddenly drop when there are more cases coming in and an increase in the amount of critical cases. A researcher published a graph that shows that, up until Saturday, we had a steeper trajectory than even Italy. Suddenly, it seems to have dropped off, China-style.

    Also today, the public health authority defended its (non-)actions and panned the response and actions taken by the rest of the world by strawmanning that the shutdowns are intended to last until there's a vaccine available, claimed they have "not thought very far." They also said they are doing it the way they are to protect the economy.

    Right when they make such a statement, the figures suddenly fall in their favor. A little fishy.

    The nasty curve shows: The death rate is rising faster in Sweden than in Italy: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Fotacka-kurvan-visar-dodssiffran-okar-snabbare-i-sverige-i-italien

    SR profile Kerstin Behrendtz died in corona: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Fsr-profilen-kerstin-behrendtz-dod-i-corona

    The public health authority corona slams rest of world: 'Not thought very far': https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Ffolkhalsomyndigheten-coronasagar-utlandet-inte-tankt-sarskilt-langt

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 1:30pm

    #64
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1286

    what is the evolutionary purpose of a virus?

    And what role might a mask play in this purpose?

    Scientists ask these kinds of questions.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 1:38pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    1+

    AKGranny -- you still have given no information

    How else do you think they could do this, right now, in a pandemic ?  People are contagious.  We are in a Pandemic.

    If you think there is something else they could be doing that would not be dangerous, spread the disease, you have still not articulated it !

    You just repeated yourself that it is terrible, and it is the fault of the medical system.  Of course, it is tragic.  However, just what is it that you think could be done given a highly communicable disease in a pandemic ? And, how is the inability to go in and out of a quarantined room, in a pandemic, the fault of the medical system ?  Remember, your thesis is that this particular problem, not being able to go in and out of our sick and contagious family members hospital room is the fault of the "medical system" or I guess, more specifically, the hospital.   So, in what way is this the hospitals fault ?

    Obviously we have all thought about this !  The choice is simple, go to the hospital, where you will be in quarantine and not be able to see family, but be able to avail yourself of treatment, such as suctioning, oxygen, IV fluids, medications, etc... or stay at home with family and not have access to these treatments.

    So, for your example of family member who in your example is going to die no matter where they are, you can have them stay at home with you, where if they keep getting sicker, they will suffer from dehydration, pain, and the fear that comes when you cant draw a breath well, and if they are going to die, die with you there while this is going on.  Or, you can take that person to the hospital, where you cannot be with them, but they can get an IV to keep from being dehydrated and morphine to ease the breathing and the pain.

    I realy think your thought process is selfish.  Selfish to the medical workers and your greater community were you to go in and out of a quarantined sick room and spread this.  Possible selfish to the ill and dying person.  Certainly unfair to the "system" you are railing against, you want everything, you want the medical care and others to take risks so you do not have to face this difficult choice.  But it is a pandemic and you dont get to have the care without the quarantine

     

    Yes, I know what we used to be able to do.  But that was before the pandemic.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:11pm

    Yinzer

    Yinzer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 28 2020

    Posts: 2

    1+

    Yinzer said:

    IMHO, nature doesn't always have a purpose. It's random mutation. To the anaerobic bacteria 3.5 billion years ago, oxygen producing chlorophyl looked deadly and purposeless. But look at us now.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:16pm

    #67
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 442

    8+

    My kind of mask! LOL

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:20pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 442

    3+

    The rot is everywhere... and the billionaires are driving it all!

    The Post-Coronavirus World Will Be Far Worse Than the Pre-Coronavirus World

    UGH!

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:31pm

    #69

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    Hmmm let me try again.

    Well I guess the whole system needs to be overhauled.  Ideally, if people were a priority family or significant others would be able to have protective gear unless they had already had the virus and had immunity.  Tests to check immunity would be available.  Patients would have private or semi private rooms to help with quarantining.  Hospitals would have “Standard Operating Procedures” in place.  Focus groups would spend time creating procedures.  But thats not the way it is,

    Currently,

    The system is barely working and I understand that the staff does not want any family members anywhere near the patient or staff.  When my mother was in the hospital I would show up and her equipment would be in a full blown alarm and I would have to track down someone to attend to her.  One doctor would come in and say we are going to do surgery on your Dad.  An hour later another doctor would come in and say I don’t think he will survive the surgery.  My point is in good times people need a champion for their relative. Mistakes are made and it’s convenient and easy to say no relatives.  Respirators are being taken away from the elderly and then they are given a sedative.  And,of course they all die alone!

    So you want me to have perfect answers which I don’t.  But I do believe we could do better.  When society has no empathy they are on the downhill side of collapse.  And, I believe we are headed there.  My goal is to bring this up because it is not a subject people are thinking about, but maybe they should.  This time next week a lot of us may be facing this predicament.  I prefer to be told your husband has an 80% chance of dying do you want to go home and be together or get hooked up to a machine and die alone?  That would be my preference.  That would be his preference - to be able to decide.  And it seems so shortsighted to be in this situation at all.

    Hospitals should be held accountable.  You failed to plan appropriately and put profit over people so healthcare is now non-profit!  Period, full stop.  The people should get the same healthcare our politicians get.  They get 100% coverage for life.  They are supposed to serve US.  How is that fair?

    Hope that answered you question?

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:32pm

    #70
    Roadlesstaken

    Roadlesstaken

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 27 2011

    Posts: 5

    Dr. Gottlieb promotes masks

    Glad to see the former FDA head prompting masks: https://youtu.be/S2TDEOfPc0s

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:34pm

    #71
    Wintergreen

    Wintergreen

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2020

    Posts: 44

    9+

    Thanks fer nuthin', Doc

    Just caught the last few sentences on MSNBC of remarks by one of the Dr. Guptas.  (Yes, there's more than one.)  Of course I can't find a clip of it anywhere to link.  What I heard him parroting was that no one except medical personnel should be wearing masks.  He kinda sounded like he thinks no private person even has a right to do so.

    It's funny,  but it's never been the virus that has made my stomach turn over.  Rather, it's humans and the nefarious ways they are dealing with it.  I don't know how to not take it personally when seeing the constant barrage of attacks on individuals for using masks.

    Two months ago, it was already a challenge to find N95 masks for sale in retail stores.  In the secondary market, prices were already rising.  I did what I could to obtain a supply for my son-in-law and for my daughter, who has had asthma since she was a toddler.  I did not invest my efforts and financial resources to compensate for the shortcomings of our federal government, nor for the failure of medical facilities to assertively plan ahead.  It is beyond maddening to hear the escalating drumbeat against private individuals protecting themselves.  It doesn't sound that different to me than the assertion by Dan Patrick that granny should willingly die to save the economy.  I feel personally condemned, as if I'm supposed to apologize for planning to protect my family.  It's Aesop's fable all over again, but this time the angry grasshoppers are organized, and they're trying their best to persuade everyone that the ants are the villains.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:34pm

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    1+

    Evoluiton & Purpose

    Please understand, there is no purpose, and no arrow of direction, guiding Evolution, whatsoever.  Evolution is not striving toward any goal, or destination, and does not follow a path.

    Think of a blob of mud dropping to the ground from two stories of height.  The mud hits the ground and splatters where it will...and flows where it can.  Evolution is like that.

    Evolution is really not the survival of the fittest, but, rather..the survival of what happens to survive.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:39pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 690

    1+

    Reported CFR

    I hear everyone going from a 2% CFR based on diagnosed case bases.  Actuallly its much higher based on cases.  Never the less, people are trying to take that 2% and assume many many more are infected that are asymptomatic.   This is wrong , this assumption  people get sick and dont know it.  Like its 80%.    First , the asymptomatic is more related to spread "before one is symptomatic" not that all these people run around sick but not sick.   There have been a few super-spreaders that are like this but its something like 1%.  So , no there are not a lot of people that are sick we have to adjust for , that dont know they are sick.   Second,  though there are people who have not severe enough symptoms to seek help, they still know its not the flu and reason to believe its Covid and would like to get tested if possible.   However , this does not lower the actual CFR.   The truth is when you factor the lag for deaths at time slice of infections, it will show much higher than this 2%.    The problem is we know there are tons of deaths not being recorded.  And I am not talking about a few.  One doctor said that he knows of 5 in his hospital alone , that is not being counted.. and the county deaths registered were only 1.. so he has at least 5 - in one of 3-5 county hospitals..  and only 1 registered.. That is huge disparity.. So , I argue for all these 100 cases of un-included cases, I offer at least 3 deaths not recorded..  so, you cannot start from an arbitrarily low number and work backwards.. you have to take a realistic number and work forwards.   Its just optimistic thinking.  Where you want to take cases of sick people not sick and add them to sick.. ( complete fiction ) where I can actually find real deaths not reported per doctor testimony.

    With exceptional healthcare , this could be 0 % CFR.    But realistically, extraordinary healthcare was only reserved for the diamond princess casualties.  As we become overwhelmed medically, you can pretend it doesnt exist.   That is the only death rate I want.. the one without medical intervention.. Because medical intervention is a wide wide variable..  illness is too but its much more predictive.   I think enough studies have been compiled to state with reasonable cause - that 20% of the cases are serious..This is now given to us officially.  I am sure its based on some studies.   And 30% of hospitalizations result in fatality.  This was officially given to us in studies.  So that is what you must go on..   That is a 6% fatality with medical intervention.  and you can only go up from there.   As for the DP.  If we could test everyone in your city.  and take all those positive, whether they developed symptoms(yet)  ,  and automatically hospitalize them and give them best of treatment , constant care checking for changes , like blood counts, and inflamatory markers, xrays,  lab cultures, at the earliest sign of a problem and treating that immediately before the patient even becomes aware they are having issues.. the out-come will be significantly better.   DP is fiction fantasy land.   with fantasy treatment and testing.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:41pm

    #74

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    1+

    Okay Ision

    The powers that be are planning on social unrest.  To what extent are they planning and preparing for?

    Please, spill the tea.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:46pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 690

    Well said Winter

    Its a joke, what is going on, And we are not allowed to even protect ourselves now...    and must sacrifice normal adjustment and hygeine for the economy.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:51pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    2+

    nope, not a matter of ppe availability

    Well, that took a while, and wading thru other issues, but staying on topic, it seems that you feel it is the medical systems fault we cant see family quarantined in the hospital during this pandemic because all they would have to do is these 2 things :

    family would be able to have protective gear....patients would have private or semitprivate rooms..

    I think you do not understand the real issue. If you have spent time in a hospital, you would know why this is an issue, and if you had an idea, you would be able to articulate some specifics of how this would work.  The point is that it is not about ppe for family, that is not sufficient, if it were, medical personell would not catch it, but they do.  And family would be worse on the use of ppe.  I have seen it, I have been there when the risks were not as great as they are now.  This is not as issue of ppe, they could not allow it even if they had more.  If you think differently, go ahead and let us, and your local hospital know how they could do this.

    I actually HAVE been to visit elderly family with a communicable disease, MRSA, antibiotic resistant pneumonia.  I have used ppe in a hospital to visit family, my mother.

    I am speaking from experience, I do not see anyway that they could allow family in to a room, doning and taking off ppe for this pandemic.  I have been there and done that and I do see the issues.  It is not a matter of ppe availability, even if we had more, we could not let family in to spread this.  So, I understand why they have this policy.

    Also, we already do have private rooms.  This is common.  And, it is not enough.  It is not an issue of family being around a person sharing a room with sick family member.  Even ICU is seperate rooms, some emergency rooms are too, others aren't, it depends, I was at quite a few different ones last year.  The issue is that family walked thru the hospital, breathing and touching.  It doesnt matter if you gave them gloves and a mask at the front door.  You would have to have personell watch them every minute, next thing you know they "adjust" the mask with their gloved hands and then touch the railing.  They go and use the toilet.  Surely it is not that hard to see the issues ?

    So, again, if you have a plan, we would love to hear it, otherwise stop putting down the hospitals and hospital workers who need to have policies in place to protect themselves and the public while we are in this pandemic.  And, if you think about it, cant you see that more masks wouldnt do it ?  I mean, I have my own mask and gloves, but I know if my asthmatic family member, who I love dearly, comes down with this and is in the hospital, that I cant go.  ANd, I am not mad at them about it.  I understand and appreciate the risks that they are already working under.  The inherent risks that are there even with perfect ppe, because ppe is never perfect

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 2:54pm

    KugsCheese

    KugsCheese

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 910

    1+

    Re: Quercetin

    The lonely yellow onion is probably the best food source for quercetin.   As Darrell's Grandma used to say: "an onion a day keeps the doctor away."

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:09pm

    #78

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    1+

    Got it

    So, again, if you have a plan, we would love to hear it, otherwise stop putting down the hospitals and hospital workers who need to have policies in place to protect themselves and the public while we are in this pandemic

    Geez I spent a really long time explaining my concerns, fears and frustrations and your answer is if you don’t have answers I like shut the f!$;:&! Up.  I am right you are wrong!

    Thanks, I got it. Kinda rude though.  We all get to have opinions.

     

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:16pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 735

    Evolution

    Evolution is random mutations filtered by natural selection. Mutations which result in a better chance of reproduction will propagate through a population. "Survival of the fittest" is a simplistic way of putting it.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:25pm

    #80
    Time2help

    Time2help

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2342

    1+

    PSA for healthcare workers at a local healthcare provider (3/29)

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:25pm

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    1+

    Planning?

    The plan is to prevent themselves from being caught up in any civil unrest, unless they desire to be another, Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin, and leap onto a tank to give rousing speeches, after downing a bottle of good vodka.

    Local police, mayors, governors, guard commanders, and military elements will attempt to contain the violence as best they can, but will keep to the fringes, until the ashes cool down.  Martial law will naturally be declared and drones will be used to suppress insurgents.

    Power will go bye-bye, phones and internet turned off, water shut off, and various drone delivered gases will be used.   We have quite a selection of those..by the way.

    Not just tear gas.  We expect the gangs will not have very good chemical warfare gear...

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:32pm

    #82
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    The Best Crowd Control Device Ever Created?

    The Flame Thrower.

    You can SEE the flames.  You can FEEL the heat of the flames.  You do not hang tough and brave the flames.  You can smell the flames.  You run away as fast as you can.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:48pm

    KugsCheese

    KugsCheese

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 910

    Re: N95 Masks In-Stock at Envo Mask

    Just bought 5.   Hopefully in stock and ship soon since I know persons I will give one too.   This company needs to advertise more!

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:50pm

    Credenda

    Credenda

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 22

    2+

    The lowly yellow onion and Quercetin

    My grandmother told me that wearing a necklace of onions is what saved her during the 1917 pandemic. Wonder if there’s a connection.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:51pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    1+

    You just like to be a victim ?

    I never said shut up if you dont have a plan, let alone cursed.

    I read all of what you wrote.  The only part addressing the issue of how we could visit quarantined family from you were 2 points (1) ppe (2) private rooms.  Which I then discussed why that would not solve the issue.

    I explained why they would have an issue even if there were more ppe and then said if you had an answer to that, how it could possibley work to have the general public go into a quarantine space, even with ppe available to let us know.  In other words, I am very open to your ideas or opinions on how this would work.

    What I disagree with is railing against hospitals and doctors who are working very hard without considering the issues

    Too bad you like to take everything so personally without even considering the points I made about the general public going in and out of a quarantine space, even in ppe, would be a large vector to spread the illness.   If you see that they wouldnt be, please explain.  Otherwise continue to play the victim when I am not picking on you personally, I just would like to discuss it with concrete  ideas not just feelings about it not being ideal.  Of course it is not ideal.  It is a tragedy.  And I still have not seen any thoughts about how this is the hospitals fault.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 4:06pm

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 86

    HK MASK, Mask with Shield. Make your own

    https://diymask.site/   [I love this Hong Kong Mask (HK Mask) site!  scroll down for science and pattern. There is also a tutorial.  I it tried using fabric, ribbon and made ties.

    Uses paper towel, facial tissue, or could use coffee filter=> he gives the science midway down. OR

    NO SEW-->I also tried making a paper towel-lined with facial tissue, twist tie, staples/stapler, rubber bands for a disposable mask making it ~N70.  I had double sided tape left from present wrapping for a tighter seal, adapted from->

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilplwuvpIGw

    From HK MASK

    So with all the sources accumulated here- Everyone can model safe behavior.  Wear your glasses or make a shield-->

    How to make your own mask with a shield:

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-22-how-to-make-your-own-coronavirus-protective-mask-instructions.html

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 4:13pm

    #87

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

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    The Dance

    Ask a question and then explain why the answer is wrong.  I am NOT a victim and it is disingenuous of you to call me one.  Did I call myself one? No, never thats your interpretation.  I simply stated your response was rude.  You asked a question and I tried my best to answer it and your response was rude.  I am entitled to interpret your respond as it appears to me.

    Not sure why you are so hostile.  I did try to be polite and explain my thoughts. Let’s be done. Yikes, reminder to self not to discuss topics with you.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 4:54pm

    #88
    Avatar

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    Coronavirus (PCR or Antibody) Testing At Home

    Chris, it'd be great if you could briefly report on the importance of increased testing (either polymerase chain reaction (PCR) or antibody), particularly for use at home. This is important for many reasons, obviously, including reducing the stress of not knowing if one is or isn't COVID-19 infectious. I am still forced to work at my office -- either test will allow me to know if I have the virus, haven't had it, or had it and recovered. I'm certain that millions of others feel the same burden of uncertainty. Thank you for all of your crucial reporting on COVID-19 the past two months!

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:15pm

    #89
    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    8,000 Telluride residents to be tested for COVID-19 by United Biomedical

    United Biomedical is now working with San Miguel County, which includes the famous Rocky Mountain ski destination, to test all 8,000 residents for COVID-19 antibodies -- making it the first community in the country to do widespread antibody testing. The idea, officials said, is to learn from an individual’s blood whether there is evidence the person has already been exposed. With that information, officials can then make decisions about whether quarantines and restrictions would need to continue and whether they need to be as widespread as they are in states and cities across the country right now.

    "The goal of this is to show you can predictably get an entire county back to its new normal as quickly as possible by using testing," said Lou Reese, co-CEO of United Biomedical and its COVAXX subsidiary.

    Reese stressed that, if successful, the testing program could be expanded, "starting at the hot-spot areas right now to solve this problem, stop the panic and get people to their lives and back to work."

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:17pm

    #90
    TurquoiseRose

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    Massive Field Hospital being set up in NYC

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/29/massive-field-hospital-for-coronavirus-patients-going-up-in-central-park/

    An evangelical Christian relief organization on Sunday began setting up a massive field hospital in Central Park to help New York City cope with the crush of patients sickened by the deadly coronavirus.

    Samaritan’s Purse — which is led by Franklin Graham, son of the late televangelist Billy Graham — trucked in four trailers of gear, including tents, beds, personal protective equipment and 10 ventilators for the most seriously ill.

    A team of 70 health care workers from around the US will be led by Dr. Elliott Tenpenny, who’s previously treated Ebola patients in West Africa, Syrian refugees in Iraq and earthquake victims in Ecuador.

    “This is honestly the most improbable place we’ve ever been,” he told The Post.

    Also See:

    76,000 Healthcare Workers Have Volunteered To Help NY Hospitals Fight Coronavirus

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:23pm

    #91
    kayth

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    recovery exercises

    (hope the gif plays - if it doesn't, click on pic for larger ones)

    Recommended while on the mend

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:26pm

    #92
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    It appears homemade masks should primarily be for personal use

    Island Health asks people not to donate homemade masks or other non-medical grade equipment

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:32pm

    #93
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Need more like this to lead the way

    https://globalnews.ca/video/6747347/coronavirus-no-mask-no-service-policy-in-place-at-vancouver-business/?utm_source=Homegnca-bc&utm_medium=MostPopularVideo&utm_campaign=2020

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:41pm

    #94

    dtrammel

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    Funny Jan, I'm Seeing The Exact Opposite

    It appears homemade masks should primarily be for personal use

    And yet every time I log into FB and view the group I'm a member of making masks, there are 2-3 messages from HCWs asking for masks. My guess is somebody in Island Health's legal department told them "We could get sued!!!".

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:53pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    Joined: Feb 19 2016

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    masks hospitals and shopping

    Some of the hospitals that I have heard of are putting them in waiting rooms to let the patients use them, as they are out of the throw away ones to pass out.  Others have hospital workers wearing them over the hospital provided ones to keep the actual medical masks cleaner.  I have not heard of any, not saying there aren't or wont be in the future, but right now none are using them for protection for hospital workers, as that would not meet the standard.  The standard says to only use cloth as a last ditch once the others are totally gone.  At least out here in this part of California.

     

    The  public shaming of mask wearers is worrying, and while it has not happened to me, I could totally see someone doing it, telling another " that should be saved for a hospital worker ! "  But the thing is, they cannot use opened or expired masks, so I have a small number of masks that I bought in 2014, expired in 2017.  That is 3 years ago.  That is ok for me to wear as I am not in a quarantined, totally contagious environment so my risk if themask breaks is low.  I guess the issue is that the elastic could break while in use at the hospital, so there is a reason they cannot use old masks.  Of course, if they ever cam upon a real large stash in a warehouse, I hope they let volunteers get in there with strap material and a staple gun !  As we do need masks

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 5:58pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

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    Agreed!

    While Canada does not have the same litigious nature as the USA does, I have no doubt that is a factor in this case.

    We may also get to a point where, irrespective of legal crap, beggars can’t be choosers... I hope not, but it remains to be seen how this will go. The next few weeks are key. In the meantime, I hope people keep producing the masks.

    PS: the absolute last thing we need right now are the liars to get more active - oops sorry, lawyers. Apologies to any readers who are lawyers who act with integrity.

    Jan

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:06pm

    #97

    guardia

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    The Power of the Sun

    Japanese have this tradition of hanging their futons every day or so over balconies and what not. The thinking goes that UV light from the sun kills germs found not only on the surface but also the ones deep inside mattresses. So, it's believed that doing the same for masks is bound to work just as well for any viruses, but I haven't found any studies on that yet (either proving that it does work, or disproving it), which is weird because if it does work that would be one of the simplest thing to do...

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 8:27pm

    #98

    dtrammel

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    UV light, Solar or Generated

     So, it’s believed that doing the same for masks is bound to work just as well for any viruses, but I haven’t found any studies on that yet (either proving that it does work, or disproving it), which is weird because if it does work that would be one of the simplest thing to do…

    You know scientist, never go the low cost route if you can add something to run up the cost, lol.

    I don't have any studies handy that show how long to leave a mask in sunlight so I can't make any recommendation. I do know that window glass, either in home of in car will filter out UV light, so you can't just put them in the window. Also no putting them in a glass jar. You can put them in a ziplock bag and then put them outside.

    Might be something a DIY could make, a solar powered mask sterilizer, like a solar oven only with plastic or a screen. A small one that would hold 5-6 masks would be good, though it would then be heat and not UV. Have to really watch the temp though, too hot and it would melt any plastic values or the elastic.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:27pm

    timot78

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    IF you count on UV action - please don't put into any glass or plastic container/ziplock

    Dtrammel,

    Appreciate your post re:coronavirus protection.   However, in p.#62 you recommend putting the masks into ziplock and then expose to sun.  Please, don't do that. The germicidal wavelength range is maybe 200- 300 nm , and ziplock, like many plastics, does NOT TRANSMIT this wavelength range. The germicidal effect is TOTALLY lost.

    (I have PhD in Optical Physics for those who question posters' credibility).  So , if you want to use sunrays to kills germs, please expose the masks to the sun w/o any barrier like window, plastic bag, etc. between mask and the sun.  You may end up with the same viral load on the mask as before treatment (Dangerous!).

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:35pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Thanks, Did Not Know That.

    I'd been told that it didn't but, thanks for the update and the information. I'll be sure to post the correct information from now on.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:56pm

    thudautu

    thudautu

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    Joined: Feb 06 2020

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    How Viet Nam fights the Honey Badger virus

    Hi @Chris, for weeks, I have heard good thing about the fight on this deadly virus  in Viet Nam but could not find any info supporting that. A close member of my family recently went to visit Viet Nam 3 weeks ago and witness first hand the situation there. Based on your Gold standard pandemic approach, they hit 1, 1b, relative good on 2 & 2b (having 2.5 hr screening test kit as well as the standard diagnostic test and hit all steps from 3 to 3d but not sure about 4. Today, my kid found this site from Germany hopefully the info is not biased to the current government. Below is the link. Thanks for your time.

    Thudautu

    https://www.dw.com/en/how-vietnam-is-winning-its-war-on-coronavirus/a-52929967

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 2:13am

    sofistek

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    Masks are beneficial

    Not sure if this has been posted before but, given Chris's message here, it seems appropriate to post a link to this article about wearing face masks. The upshot is that we should all be doing it.

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 2:55am

    mw.pp.972634

    mw.pp.972634

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    In Austria you will be forced to wear a mask in supermarket

    [Sebastian] Kurz said, that he is aware, that a lot of people would have loved to hear, that the measures will be lifted, but in reality, 'it is a marathon'
    ("dass viele Menschen hören wollten, dass die Maßnahmen gelockert würden. 'Aber die Wahrheit ist, es ist ein Marathon'")

    From wednesday on, it will be required to wear a mask in supermarkets and there should be enough masks for all customers to hand out
    ("werde es verpflichtend sein, künftig Schutzmasken im Supermarkt zu tragen. Voraussichtlich würden ab Mittwoch genügend Masken vorhanden sein, dass diese Mund-Nasen-Schutzmasken (NMS) an die Kundschaft gegeben würden")

    They say, it's not a replacement for keeping distance, but an additional measure ("das sei 'kein Ersatz für das Abstandhalten', sondern eine zusätzliche Maßnahme")

    Source: https://orf.at/stories/3159909/
    sorry, didnt find an english version there :-/

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 3:20am

    Bob Greenyer

    Bob Greenyer

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    Bob Greenyer said:

    Hi, my name is Bob Greenyer

    I am living in the Czech Republic. I am a research scientist and acting on a hunch based on historical food preservation techniques, I proposed treating masks with salt solution, then I found that there was science published in Nature in 2017 that showed that masks could indeed be activated and made re-useable by treating with common salt (NaCl) and that it can destroy virus particles passively in as little as 3 minutes after taking the mask off.

    What happens is the salt re-crystallisation smashes up the virus particles trapped on the mask.

    I have been using the same disposable mask for weeks now for when I go food shopping or to any indoor space and the salt is still in place - obviously it can be re-treated and this same technique can be applied to home-made masks.

    Here is the video (references for videos will be in their description)

    I extended the technique to making treatments for high contact areas - in and around the home, which is especially important for common access areas say in an apartment building.


    Here are some images you can use.

    I have also published over a week ago an epidemiological driven alternative path for consideration to get us out of the current situation as fast as possible, primarily to get herd immunity as safely as possible with minimum economic impact - so we can avoid famine and stop-starts and re-lockdowns because of lack of herd immunity.

    Lastly, based on understanding the mechanism of how HydroChloroquine + Zinc works to slow the way the bodies cells replicate virus genetic material within them, I produced a video walking through a simple cheap and proven use of Green Tea (or its extract) to reduce contracting viruses, with the fact that it has the ionophore EGCG (Epigallocatechin-gallate) in it - which can act like HydroChloroquine, but without the side effects to get Zn2+ ions into human cells. The proposal is to use it with Zn supplements as a prophylactic that is cheap and available to people even in lockdown.

    Regards

    Bob Greenyer

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 6:54am

    cchardy55

    cchardy55

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    Joined: Mar 30 2020

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    https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

    Wow!!!

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 8:25am

    KugsCheese

    KugsCheese

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 910

    Re: Coronavirus (PCR or Antibody) Testing At Home

    rtPCR (retroVirus) can miss active infections if testing cotton swap in nasal passage.  I have not read about rtPCR on blood.  How quickly does this virus get into the blood and necessary load to detect with rtPCR?

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 12:38pm

    kriv

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    Virologist says solution is to wear a mask.

    In an interview by The Korea Times, a virologist says solution is to wear a mask.  Risk is very low if you wear a mask.  The whole video is good, but this comment starts at 9:26.  @Adam, I know you and PP members know this already, but fyi for additional expert support.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVBc7-Te_yA

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 2:00pm

    kriv

    kriv

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    Posts: 2

    kriv said:

    I think I saw the Envo Mask on Amazon a few weeks ago.  At the time, I was looking for something cheaper, and thought who would pay that much for a mask that didn't have an occupation as a tradesman.  Well, I've had a bit of an attitude shift in the last few weeks.  I've come to the conclusion that this thing is just getting started, so I ordered a couple.  Thanks for the tip!

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 2:23pm

    NorthElkhound

    NorthElkhound

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    USPS workers ingenuity

    The US Postal Service has not supplied any protective gear to its employees. I have offered masks and gloves, which my local workers turned down 2 weeks ago: "It isn't that serious."  Hand sanitizer they did accept.

    I go there today and find a clear SHOWER CURTAIN hanging down between the clerks and the customers. I applaud their ingenuity!

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 3:06pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    Suddenly, 50 little countries

    Border checkpoints state to state are cropping up.  I wonder how many supporting this couldn't seem to support The Wall.  The worm turns.

    If you like your state, you can keep your state.  I hope you are where you want to be.  Many clamoring to get into Cheyenne Mountain. Like heaven, few to be admitted.  Good luck campers.

    Stay Safe, Suzie Groober!!

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 3:52pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    Sugar, sugar

    OK, at the risk of being flaimed, I am giving my opinion without any supporting evidence.  However, I think eating sugar, (soft drinks, junk foods, high fructose corn syrup, etc.)  lowers your resistance, immune system, for a certain number of hours after you eat.  Maybe it's the rise in insulin.  So, I was thinking, if you are planning to be out and about, consider what you eat for several hours before.  Just a thought.

    If anyone can add some actual supporting, or other wise, info.  it is appreciated.

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 4:08pm

    Rbgodi

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    Rbgodi said:

    Jim, masks are a great idea.  I just think a more measured look at the pandemic and a focus on the real problem, an impending generational depression would be of benefit.  We are losing our liberty and our future over a bad flu.  Yes, it IS "just the flu"  200,000 deaths of mostly people in very poor health is not worth our liberty and our children's future.  Chris is too focused on the disease, which is truly the least of our worries right now.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 6:35pm

    westcoastjan

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    Is this too political? Kinda fits with the ongoing meme of the US not having done/doing enough

    The Other Virus Test: Who’s a True Leader?

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 6:50pm

    tlutterman

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    45 out of 60 choir members infected after just 2 1/2 hours together and no one was symptomatic.

    Dozens from Skagit Valley Chorale have COVID-19 and two died

    Yes, everyone wear a mask!!

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 10:40pm

    antipodes

    antipodes

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    Posts: 1

    Meanwhile in South Africa...

    ... authorities in denial: https://bit.ly/39Bs1WE

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  • Tue, Mar 31, 2020 - 11:41am

    MountainBlues

    MountainBlues

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    Posts: 28

    2+

    #Masks4all

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  • Tue, Mar 31, 2020 - 1:12pm

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    5+

    Masks for all our Church members

    Chris,

    I started a movement in our church to give masks to all members. We have volunteers sewing and people are eagerly donating to buy cloth and ribbon.  You would not believe the enthusiasm.
    This is enabling people ... giving ownership in winning this fight against the invisible enemy.
    This can be done on a grass roots level anywhere. I encourage all PP members to start a local effort.
    Please start in your community.... “Masks for everyone “

    ”Wear a mask .....save a Nurse”

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  • Wed, Apr 01, 2020 - 1:47pm

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    Disinfecting masks with ozone

    A product called “Puro” is being marketed to kill viruses and pathogens on any object including N95 masks. It is about the size of a large ice chest and can hold 50 or more masks. I wonder if a room ozone machine could be placed in a small tent with objects that need disinfection. Does anyone have a scientific background to give an informed opinion?  Thanks in advance.

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  • Wed, Apr 01, 2020 - 2:19pm

    rich_maverick

    rich_maverick

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    Joined: Feb 28 2020

    Posts: 5

    Purchased UVC lights and dedicating a bathroom for decontamination...

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KYTHWCS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Hope this works.  Use lamp for decontamination.  Run this for 60-90 minutes with any new mail.  I have to put a towel on the floor of the bathroom as the ozone has triggered my fire alarm twice already.

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  • Wed, Apr 01, 2020 - 2:20pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Posts: 1043

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    Yes, as in “all”? Rbgodi?

    Jim, masks are a great idea.  I just think a more measured look at the pandemic and a focus on the real problem, an impending generational depression would be of benefit.

    I absolutely agree!

    • The older generation - faced with loss of pensions, reductions in Social Security and good medical care. (I know folks who tell me that can’t find a Dr. cause they don't want to take medicare) and no jobs.
    • Then there are the young. School debt ridden and no jobs for them either

    The blame is not one generation over the other its a system of corporate governance where very few make the decisions for the whole and keep the profits.  Our only recourse is our vote and that was bought and paid for by lobbyists many years ago.

    The blame does not fall on a specific generation, immigrants or the Russians.  Those with wealth and power have molded the world to further empower themselves, at our expense.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Wed, Apr 01, 2020 - 3:08pm

    rich_maverick

    rich_maverick

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    Petition whitehouse to allow folks within HOAs and restricted local communities to grow a garden

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-return-victory-gardens

    HOAs and some local governments have rules against gardens and/or planting fruit trees.  You must grow grass, or approved non-fruit bearing trees.  So, given the strain on the food pipeline (nobody tending the fields), we need to allow for Victory Gardens to come back.  Otherwise, we will run out of food with all the stay at home lockdowns.

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  • Thu, Apr 02, 2020 - 6:24pm

    Credenda

    Credenda

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    How to obtain chloroquine

    How likely is your doctor to prescribe hydrochloroquine/azithromycin at symptom onset in a higher risk patient? I have no confidence that mine would be willing. So how would one get it? Or would we all be out of luck unless we had a doctor in the family?

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  • Thu, Apr 02, 2020 - 8:15pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1199

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    Jan, You are way wrong.. way, way wrong.

    Trump was the first to mention choroquine.  It works.  I will link a video below that includes the holy wrath of a biotech lawyer entrepreneur who is really, really pissed off at the deep state for their efforts to make hydroxychoroquine seem scary. You are acting like sheep.  Snap out of it!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oq6IOP1sd8

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  • Thu, Apr 02, 2020 - 9:28pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    You have a bad case of TDS Jan

    Keep the politics out, not funny either. The President has been fighting to get things done and cut red tape

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  • Thu, Apr 02, 2020 - 11:01pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

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    Acusing Jan of TDS is political in itself and not helpful or conducive to productive discussion

    Mtnhousepermi, Yes, Jan's post was perhaps pushing the limits to PP guidelines, but she did preface her post asking as much. I'm sure she's taken note for future reference.  She also noted that the cartoon alluded to the meme of the US and the US President not having done/doing enough, which is the subject of keen debate currently.

    I'm not going down that rabbit hole because it will only fuel the flames of the political discord among PP members.  The PP tribe is a diverse group comprised of a funky mix of pro/anti-Trump supporters; pro/anti Bernie/Biden supporters; liberals, democrats, republicans, libertarians, democratic socialists, conservatives; carnivores, vegans, vegetarians, ovolactovegetarians; country, suburban and urban dwellers; millennials, Gen X, Z, Boomers, and more. This site and its diverse online community thrives when we engage in respectful, informed dialogue; and it will wither and self-destruct if we resort to ad hominem, personal attacks.

    Your comment accusing Jan of suffering from TDS, or "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is not helpful or conducive to a productive discussion, regardless of whatever definition you ascribe to TDS. (See:  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201901/is-trump-derangement-syndrome-real-mental-condition)

    You could have responded that her graphic/comment was inconsistent with the PP forum posting guidelines (here) and stopped there. Instead you added your own political perspective regarding Trump's effectiveness and accused her of suffering from TDS, a presumed mental condition characterized by "insanity" and "hysteria".

    IMO, your comment was dismissive and, quite frankly, a cheap shot.

     

     

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  • Fri, Apr 03, 2020 - 5:53am

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 86

    Hydrochloroquine Access is likely to depend on where you live

    Neighboring Mercer County Municipalities and Greenhill Pharmacy Partner to Secure Medication for COVID-19 Positive Patients
    Regarding Township Services
    Greenhill Pharmacy has partnered with East Windsor Township, Robbinsville Township and Hamilton Township to provide Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, in combination with the antibiotic Zithromax, to treat COVID-19 (coronavirus) positive patients throughout Mercer County at no cost beginning Friday, April 3, 2020.
    The FDA issued an emergency-use authorization for this combination of drugs for treatment and mitigation of the impacts of COVID-19. In lockstep with Governor Phil Murphy's order, only individuals who have tested positive according to the State's guidelines and have a prescription from their doctor can obtain the course of treatment. Hydroxychloroquine must be ...
    1. Prescribed for the treatment of COVID-19
    2. Supported by a positive test result AND documented on the hard copy prescription
    3. Limited to a 14-day supply
    The current supply will be allocated to local hospitals, residents of Mercer County (with or without insurance) and first-responders. Greenhill Pharmacy will coordinate contactless delivery via pharmacy staff or courier free to all patients. The prescription will be delivered via courier after prior arrangements are made with the patient and/or their caretaker. In order to best verify and expedite the process, your doctor should send the prescription to Greenhill Pharmacy electronically. The East Windsor-based pharmacy is open from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Doctors and hospitals can contact the pharmacy at [email protected].
    "Thank you to Greenhill Pharmacy for not only helping Robbinsville, Hamilton and East Windsor, but all of Mercer County as we push forward together through this crisis," Mayor Dave Fried said. "We are doing everything we possibly can to minimize the damage in this war against a potent, invisible enemy."
    As of Wednesday, April 1, 2020 a total of 333 people had tested positive for COVID-19 in Mercer County, resulting in three deaths.
    "We are extremely grateful to Greenhill Pharmacy in East Windsor, always a pro- active local caring company, which once again has stepped up as our partner in this vital effort to help our communities at this critical time," East Windsor Mayor Janice Mironov said.
    If you think you have been exposed to COVID-19 and develop a fever and symptoms, such as cough or difficulty breathing, call your healthcare provider for medical advice. These symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure (based on the incubation period of MERS-CoV viruses).
    Mercer County opened the testing center at Quaker Bridge Mall in Lawrence Tuesday by appointment-only for symptomatic residents age 18 or older who have a prescription from their primary health care provider (PCP). If you are symptomatic for COVID-19 and wish to be tested, contact your PCP. If you are not symptomatic (i.e. fever 100.4 or greater and without a prescription) you likely will be turned away from the test site.
    "On behalf of everyone in Hamilton, I want to thank Greenhill Pharmacy as well as East Windsor and Robbinsville Townships for their partnership in our joint effort to fight COVID-19 and help the residents in our extended communities," Hamilton Mayor Jeff Martin said.

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