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    A Copper Mystery, Bubble Pop in China?

    Weekly Market Update 10 September 2021
    by davefairtex

    Sunday, September 12, 2021, 8:12 PM

Market Commentary

It is time once again for PPIACO – the old-style Producer Price Index dating back to 1913!  Indexes aren’t so useful, unless they are translated into “percent change year-over-year”.  As with last month, PPIACO y/y change remains around 20%, which is the largest move since Nixon was in the White House, a few years after taking the US off the gold standard (“temporarily”) back in 1971.

The events happening today are just as dramatic as what Nixon caused in 1971.  This, then, is the reality of  “build back better.”

And yet – how is gold doing? This week gold fell -41.41 [-2.26%]. Gold is now back below all 3 moving averages and in a downtrend. Its almost as if the inflation is transient. Or maybe it is something else.

Silver fell too, dropping -1.03 [-4.15%], also moving back below all 3 moving averages, although silver avoided dropping back into a downtrend – at least in the weekly timeframe anyway. The OI remains quite low – the banksters still don’t want to be short silver. I think that probably means something too.

Here’s an odd note – copper did well this week, up +0.10 [+2.31%], and remains in an uptrend. Why is this odd? The “other metals” did quite poorly: palladium was crushed [-11.94%], and platinum fell also [-6.94%]. See the OI in copper below – it is also quite low. Banksters don’t want to be short copper either.

One possible framing: internal combustion (PA,PL) = bad, electric motors (HG) = good. Maybe?

Equities had a difficult week, with SPX off -76.85 [-1.69%], and the weekly swing high print was quite bearish. It wasn’t enough to pull SPX into a weekly downtrend just yet, however. And the sector map looked confused. In a standard “recession” sector map, discretionary & financials lead the market lower, but this week it was REITs and sickcare – an odd combination.

Most of the damage to SPX happened on Friday. My guess: the market was sniffing out the domestic economic effects from President Grandpa’s “OSHA vaccine mandates for people working in 100+ person companies” – which was not announced until after market close. But – guaranteed – the well-connected banksters knew about the details in advance.

Bonds were little changed this week, crappy debt edged slightly lower [-0.18%], crude moved higher [+0.75%] – along with copper, the master resource was one of the few things that did not seem to be affected by the prospect of a mandate.

News that Caught My Eye this Week

Fact check: Over-the-counter vitamins not proven to treat, prevent COVID-19

A Cleveland Clinic study found melatonin reduced the chances of a positive COVID-19 test. But the study was observational, and it did not prove the supplement had any benefits for treating COVID-19.

Dr. Chris D’Adamo, director of the Center for Integrative Medicine at University of Maryland’s School of Medicine, said while more studies are needed on COVID-19 and dietary supplements, “there is already compelling evidence” that supplements including quercetin appear to reduce the severity of a COVID-19 case.

Source

[OMG!!  That sounds awesome!!]

However, experts note that the authors in the two papers have potential commercial conflicts of interest. And clinical trial data on quercetin is lacking.

David M. Aronoff, director of the division of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University, told MedPage Today in July 2020 that preclinical data demonstrated antiviral activity. But Aronoff said quercetin “should be subjected to rigorous clinical study and not recommended for use outside of clinical trials.”

First, Vanderbilt University received $20.8 million from the BMGF over the last 10 years, mostly via “Global Health.”

Second, it is fortunate for their readers that USA Today has unnamed “experts” that are making sure the readers don’t get harmed.  After all, Big Quercetin and Big Melatonin – and their commercially conflicted paper-writing shills – will say anything to pump up the sales of their $10-$30 COVID treatments.   As a result, these $10-$30 compounds should not be used without rigorous study, and since there has been no Big RCT (although there have been some excellent small ones), we must therefore ignore these compounds until such time as a Big RCT gets run.  Real Science = a Big RCT.  [Except for cloth masks.  No Big RCT required.  They work!  Trust us because – common sense.]

Formula clear?

Related: there were the following not-so-subtle nudge-links all through the article:

Lost your vaccine card?  How to prove you’ve been vaccinated

Fact check: Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine is FDA-approved; cigarettes are not

Fact check: 590% jump in poison control calls about ivermectin seen in Texas

Fact check: Comparing Pfizer vaccine approval to cigarettes, alcohol is wrong

Photo – shows syringes filled with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine at a mobile vaccination site in Miami.

How vaccine mandates have been used in schools, military, COVID-19.

Our fact-check work is supported in part by a grant from Facebook.

Photo – COVID: Treating patients, unvaccinated at Naples community hopsital as delta variant surges

Medical staff said they’re exhausted and losing patients with people who still refuse to take coronavirus seriously and avoid getting COVID vaccine.

Kinda makes you wonder if USA Today gets any cash from PFE/MRNA & CDC to promote vaccines.  Not that this would be a “conflict” or anything.  Perish the thought.


Here’s my shot at reframing MSM headlines I saw on Friday:

Unvaccinated Spouses Die Hours Apart After Being Hospitalized for COVID, Leaving 7 Kids Behind

“I’m like stressing to everybody in my family, [they have to] be vaccinated because I can’t do this again,” she told Fox 2 News. “Covid is taking too many people.”

Source

ALT: Spouses Tragically Die After Being Denied Treatment for COVID19.

“I’m like stressing to everyone in my family – don’t rely on the deadly NIH/FDA ‘guidance’, only going to hospital when your lips turn blue – treat the viral infection early, at home, with antiviral medicines that we know that work; that way you won’t leave your children without parents!”


Jacksonville TikTok maker shares vaccination plea before dying of COVID-19

“I did not get vaccinated. I’m not anti-vax. I was just trying to do my research,” Blankenbiller says. “I was scared and I wanted me and my family to all do it at the same time.”

Source

ALT: Yet Another Tragic Victim of CDC/NIH/FDA Regulatory Capture and NTFY”

“I didn’t realize that my high BMI played a part in COVID19 severity; I also had no clue that early outpatient treatment could possibly have saved my life.  I feel so upset at the national ‘health’ organizations that kept this information from me and my loved ones.  Why would they do this to us?”

Why indeed.


Researchers at Georgia State University and Emory University have developed an intranasal influenza vaccine using recombinant hemagglutinin (HA), a protein found on the surface of influenza viruses, as the antigen component of the vaccine.

They also created a two-dimensional nanomaterial (polyethyleneimine-functionalized graphene oxide nanoparticles) and found that it displayed potent adjuvant (immunoenhancing) effects on influenza vaccines delivered intranasally.

Posted: May 04, 2021 by Roni Peleg

Source

Say, that graphene oxide sure looks like interesting stuff.  Especially for vaccines.  Makes you wonder.


USPS Not Covered by Biden’s COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate: Spokesman

“The COVID-19 vaccination requirements included in the White House executive order issued on September 9, 2021, for federal employees do not apply to the Postal Service,” a spokesman for the U.S. Postal Service, or USPS, told The Epoch Times in an email.

“Maintaining the health and safety of our members is of paramount importance. While the APWU leadership continues to encourage postal workers to voluntarily get vaccinated, it is not the role of the federal government to mandate vaccinations for the employees we represent,” the union said.

Source

The fact that President Grandpa’s no-exceptions mandate doesn’t allow for prior-COVID infection – and skips the post office entirely – tells you all you need to know about this “health” mandate – namely, that it has nothing to do with health.  What might it be about?

  1. Rewarding friends (who like vaccination) and punishing enemies (who don’t).  Increasing us-vs-them.
  2. A backdoor way to purge the Federal bureaucracy of possible “insurrectionists.”
  3. An unconscious, outward manifestation of the increasingly authoritarian edicts from Oligarchy: “Do it because I freaking say so.”
  4. Yet another sociopathic vax-marketing nudge to increase vax uptake; President Grandpa’s “advisors” know they’ll lose in court, but a not-insignificant number of people will be terrified/coerced into getting the shot in order to avoid losing their jobs.  It’s a no-lose move from that standpoint.
  5. Weaken the US militarily (“the US will not be the sole superpower”). If you are going to invade a nearby island, it would help to be flying against vax-injured pilots.  And/or some number of experienced (insurrectionists?) pilots will just up-and-quit.  So a win-win.

Late Breaking News:

The Sunday Times has just reported that Boris Johnson is giving up on the idea of vaccine passports or making businesses check vaccine status.

Other data show that only about 25% of deaths in Britain are among the unvaccinated – and that vaccinated people over 40 are actually MORE likely to get Covid than the unvaccinated.

Source

Holy crap.  Big news.  How will President Grandpa’s advisors react?  After the self-inflicted Afghanistan debacle crushed their poll numbers…how desperate will they be?  They only exist in power as long as President Grandpa remains in office.  That’s presumably because Vice President Giggles will have more of a mind of her own, and she will come with her own set of flacks.

Boy are things getting interesting.

My overall takeaway on the “vax mandate arc”:

  1. It provides some hints at what is to come.  The more reliant on system you are, the less control you will have going forward.  “They” will exploit your every vulnerability in order to coerce you into doing what they want.   If you are heavily in debt and have no cushion, you will feel as though you have no choice.  They will continue to use every lever you give them to control your actions.  At least until they cross some Rubicon – which we won’t be able to identify until after it happens.
  2. Our “elected leaders” – both sides of the aisle – appear to be co-opted by the same group that is eager for all us all to take the shot.  Which, because “prior covid” isn’t included as an exemption, cannot possibly be about “health.”

Here’s another easy/hard framing:

  • Addiction/obesity/vitamin deficiency/inactivity/ultra-processed foods/remdesivir: easy
  • Vax mandate exemptions/supplements/”unapproved” COVID treatments: hard

“Your body, your choice – unless you are doing something with your body they don’t approve of, in which case – your body, their choice.”


And now for an arc about recent events in China.  I wrote this arc, because I keep hearing things trickling in that seem individually interesting, but until now I did not block out the time to make sense of it all.  That, and sometimes it appears that the CCP is running things in the West.  Certainly, it appears as though every single wishlist item the CCP might have [w.r.t. the US] is being delivered by President Grandpa as rapidly as possible – for “some” reason.  Are the CCP our new owners?

China, from the outside, looks monolithic and unstoppable – that’s what the CCP would have you believe.  And yet…it turns out they have some huge multi-generational structural issues that are looming over society.  A lot of things are happening.  What are the issues?  What are the impacts?  How will these issues be resolved?

Data showed a fertility rate of 1.3 children per woman for 2020 alone, on par with ageing societies like Japan and Italy. The shrill alarm for China’s policymakers is that the world’s second-biggest economy may already be in irreversible population decline without having first accumulated the household wealth of G7 nations.

Urban couples, particularly those born after 1990, tend to value their independence and careers more than raising a family despite parental pressure to have children.

“Having a kid is a devastating blow to career development for women at my age,” said Annie Zhang, a 26 year-old insurance professional in Shanghai who got married in April last year.

“Secondly, the cost of raising a kid is outrageous (in Shanghai),” she said, in comments made before the 2020 census was published. “You bid goodbye to freedom immediately after giving birth.”

Source

In China, parents expect their children to take care of them in retirement.  Or, under the one-child policy, their child.  That’s a massive burden for an Only Child.  Parents control education choices, job choices, marriage, children – everything.   Kind of like the CCP controls the population.

Related:

China’s declining population and its new three-child policy

The central government abolished the one-child rule in 2015, allowing all married couples two children. Last week it announced they could have three.

So far the policy reversals have done little to arrest the fall in birth rates. Many Chinese families choose to have only one child because the perceived costs of raising children are too high. And many women are choosing not to have babies because structural inequalities at home and in the workplace make pregnancy and childrearing an unwelcome choice.

Source

Source

Germany and Japan look worse.  But not much worse.  And it looks like it isn a “policy” that drives one-child any longer.  It is economics.


Why Evergrande’s Debt Problems Threaten China

The real estate developer Evergrande once binged on debt. Now the music has stopped, investors are panicking and experts are warning of an imminent failure.

The ratings agency Fitch said this week that default “appears probable.” Moody’s, another ratings agency, said Evergrande is out of cash and time. Evergrande is faced with more than $300 billion in debt, hundreds of unfinished residential buildings, and angry suppliers who have shut down construction sites. The company has even started to pay overdue bills by handing over unfinished properties.

China’s property market is slowing and there is less demand for new apartments. This week the National Institution for Finance and Development, a prominent Beijing think tank, declared the property market boom “has shown signs of a turning point,” citing weak demand and slowing sales data.

Much of the cash that Evergrande has been able to drum up has come from presold apartments that aren’t yet completed. Evergrande has nearly 800 projects across China that are unfinished, and as many as 1.2 million people who are still waiting to move into their new homes, according to research from REDD Intelligence.

Source

It doesn’t look like Evergrande did anything specifically wrong – they are a homebuilder at a time when new home demand is slowing.  I’m going to claim they’re a Coal Mine Canary.  Its fine to binge on debt in an uptrend.  Once the top is in, that strategy blows up.


China halts private equity fund investment in residential property

China is halting private equity funds from raising money to invest in residential property developments, turning off the spigot on one of the last stable funding resorts for the struggling sector, Bloomberg reports.

Source

Looks like the CCP is taking action which will lead to Evergrande’s destruction.  Why?  Possibly: to prop up prices, by reducing supply.  Will it work?  It might just be too late.


These Chinese Millennials Are ‘Chilling,’ and Beijing Isn’t Happy

Five years ago, Luo Huazhong discovered that he enjoyed doing nothing. He quit his job as a factory worker in China, biked 1,300 miles from Sichuan Province to Tibet and decided he could get by on odd jobs and $60 a month from his savings. He called his new lifestyle “lying flat.”

He titled his post “Lying Flat Is Justice,” attaching a photo of himself lying on his bed in a dark room with the curtains drawn. Before long, the post was being celebrated by Chinese millennials as an anti-consumerist manifesto. “Lying flat” went viral and has since become a broader statement about Chinese society.

Mr. Luo’s blog post was removed by censors, who saw it as an affront to Beijing’s economic ambitions. Mentions of “lying flat” — tangping, as it’s known in Mandarin — are heavily restricted on the Chinese internet. An official counternarrative has also emerged, encouraging young people to work hard for the sake of the country’s future.

“After working for so long, I just felt numb, like a machine,” Mr. Luo said in an interview. “And so I resigned.”

Mr. Ding thinks young people should work hard for what they love, but not “996” — 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., six days a week — as many employers in China expect. Frustrated with the job search, he decided that “lying flat” was the way to go.

“To be honest, it feels really comfortable,” he said. “I don’t want to be too hard on myself.”

To make ends meet, Mr. Ding gets paid to play video games and has minimized his spending by doing things like cutting out his favorite bubble tea. Asked about his long-term plans, he said: “Come back and ask me in six months. I only plan for six months.”

Source

The pressure to work “996”, to prepare to take care of your aging parents – by yourself – must be incredible.  And, for the Only Child, it may be an impossible task.

My guess: the CCP’s “genius” pandemic response (lockdown!) was probably the root cause, with the young adults realizing that “tangping” was actually a whole lot better than being a 996 work-slave.  A monster unintended consequence.  “I don’t really need that bubble tea after all.”

How do you play video games for a living?  You spend time to collect items, and then sell them to other players for small sums of real money.  A friend of mine does this.

And on that note:


Three hours a week: Play time’s over for China’s young video gamers

The new rules, published on Monday, are part of a major shift by Beijing to strengthen control over its society and key sectors of its economy, including tech, education and property, after years of runaway growth.

The restrictions, which apply to any devices including phones, are a body blow to a global gaming industry that caters to tens of millions of young players in the world’s most lucrative market.

They limit under-18s to playing for one hour a day – 8 p.m. to 9 p.m. – on only Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, according to the Xinhua state news agency. They can also play for an hour, at the same time, on public holidays.

Source

CCP: No Lying Flat (tangping) For You!

Good luck with that one, CCP.  How exactly do you force people to work – if they decide they would just prefer to opt out instead?  I think the genie is out of the bottle.


China rips high actor pay, ‘effeminate’ styles

The Chinese Communist Party wants broadcasters in the country to make sure actors are more manly — and that artists are toeing the party line.

The notice also said programs depicting “effeminate” behavior and other “warped” content should be prohibited, as well as shows centering around scandals, displays of opulent wealth and “vulgar” celebrities, according to Reuters.

Chinese authorities have previously criticized male actors who wear heavy makeup and project a feminine image, arguing that they should be setting an example of traditional manliness for Chinese boys, Reuters notes.

Source

The “cute boy” actors lined up well with a “one child” policy, was neutral for the two-child policy, but doesn’t line up at all with a three-child policy.  Likewise, ostensible signs of wealth are to be discouraged.  Wealth inequality is fine, as long as nobody sees it on a daily basis.

Next up: 1) outlawing South Korean Boy Bands, 2) gay will become illegal.


A view on the CCP’s most recent actions through the socialist lens:

  • Chinese anti-trust authorities ordered the giant internet corporation Tencent to give up its exclusive music licencing rights and fined it over its acquisition of China Music in 2016
  • The online food delivery company Meituan lost $40 billion of its market value after the state regulators opened an investigation into its “suspected monopolistic practices,” alleging that it was forcing restaurants to use its app exclusively, to the detriment of its rivals
  • The Chinese government announced new regulations on July 23 for the online education industry, banning IPOs and forcing companies to operate as non-profit bodies

… the regulatory efforts to rein in the sprawling tech empires reflect fears in ruling circles in Beijing about the country’s extreme social tensions and mounting economic and financial crisis.

These concerns found expression late last year when Xi announced that 2021 would mark the beginning of a “new development phase” that would prioritise “common prosperity,” national security and social stability over unrestrained growth.

Source

Visible wealth inequality is dangerous to stability.  It is no longer acceptable to appear disgustingly rich.  Plus – a second Oligarchy is a threat to CCP rule.  They’ve seen what has happened in the West, and they certainly don’t want that to happen to them also.

My sense:

Population decline + high cost of raising children + pressure from taking care of aging parents (by yourself!) + large wealth inequality + 10 years of debt-funded property bubble + 996 workweek + lockdown unintended consequence => “tangping” => falling housing demand => a bubble pop just ahead.

In addition, the CCP is trying to fix their self-inflicted demographics disaster with their usual finesse – just ten years too late.

It is popular in China to buy apartments via debt as a form of savings.  It is clear that actual demand has really fallen off.  The cause seems multi-faceted. But when property values actually start to drop…things will get ugly.  In a big hurry too.  This might drive crypto prices higher – with crypto the best/only way for capital to flee.

I don’t know the timing of when all this happens, but I suspect this series of issues are what the CCP is really focused on.  It is an existential threat to their hold on power.  They are making a flurry of changes to try and address the situation.

Ultimately, this suggests to me that they are probably not so focused on the US, or the West.  They are turning inward.  As a result, the CCP is – probably – not our “new owner” after all.

Word of the Day:  Mandate of Heaven.

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22 Comments

  • Mon, Sep 13, 2021 - 8:38am

    #1

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2828

    5

    A look inside China’s unstoppable economic engine





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  • Mon, Sep 13, 2021 - 10:16am

    tbp

    tbp

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 12 2020

    Posts: 1121

    5

    China’s economic engine... unstoppable, or crumbling?

    No, China Won't Lead the World:





     

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  • Mon, Sep 13, 2021 - 10:36am

    #3
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2918

    7

    A new meme: F* Joe Biden

    Not sure it has momentum just yet.  Google trends says it peaked out on Sept 7th.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/GyxgHZWEPym0/

    And another video: college football.  Look at the crowds.  Subtext: The Pandemic Is Over.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/3SEhlDUfKvrM/

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  • Mon, Sep 13, 2021 - 10:42am

    #4
    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 663

    3

    A Rotted Oak

    I am expecting a slew of Pro-CCP posters to emerge here, but I have been of these opinions for the last fifteen years.

    China is a rotten oak tree. Still producing acorns and the bark still looks good, but the core, where all its strength comes from is diseased and rotted. The acorns withered and impotent. The bark brittle and sloughing at the slightest breeze. The branches cracking and too heavy for the trunk to manage.

    If it came down to war with any nation, the one-child policy will ensure that retreat was readily in their conscious minds. No family wants to lose their only heir. No family wants to cede their multi-generational wealth to the CCP for want of an heir. And none of those heirs want the discomfort, low pay, and pain life of a soldier in war entails. This is why we have little to fear from the CCP, no matter how loudly they roar, they are a paper tiger who will wilt at a gentle rain. Even technology cannot save them from the same fate as the empires that preceded them.

    The aging economy and population will be unsustainable once the productive, but aging members of society slow down or start to die. Once the tipping point is reached, which I vote it already has, the slide down the curve is much more rapid than the rise. Tangping may not be a massive movement, particularly against social credit, but theres so much upward and downward pressure on the one-child generation (upward to support their progenitors, downward to the three children they will likely be ORDERED to produce; nevermind infertility or sexual orientation) that it will take root much deeper than the near slavery the CCP expects.

    My thoughts are that this would be reason enough for the CCP to release the virus from their laboratory, and why they created and distributed an ineffective vaccine on the hopes of reducing that social burden. But with so many workers falling ill and dying, productivity slumps and they have to work other workers harder to make up for the production losses by working others harder, for the same pay and same hours. Eventually everyone reaches a breaking point and those workers will gladly take to "lying flat" for extended periods. And the more the CCP censors it, the more curiosity forces people to peak behind the curtain to see what its about. (See Ivermectin as an example).

    As you say DF, the unintended consequences of lockdown make the people long for those days of liesure away from the factory floor. Forced out of the minimal consumerism they enjoyed and away from the empty materialism the CCP encourages, they got used to the restfulness without productive purpose that characterized their lives briefly in early 2020. And much like the Soviet attempts to reverse perestroika and glasnost, once the people get a taste for that life, there is no reversal that can prevent the revolution from taking root.

    As THC showd above, the Communist system is hollow. A facade of lies. It is crumbling and cracking and more energy of the system is oriented to hiding humiliations and covering up calamities. Even those massive ICU hospitals they put up in two days in February last year, were praised by the world, but quietly condemned when they ended up collapsing later, killing untold numbers of people.

    Perhaps even their new foray into Afghanistan will prove the graveyard of empires mantra once again, as the CCP rushes to exploit the natural bounty and abuse the locals as they do everywhere, and they themselves will get sucked into the quagmire that humiliates them worse than their Vietnam debacle did.

    I don't think we have much to fear from them at all, but like the collapse of every nation, the tsunami of consequences reach much farther than their borders and we are about to see what happens when oligarchs reluctantly fall and the people passively resist. This will be the economic shockwave that collapses the global economy. And with so many consumers in the west bound to suffer and panic, perhaps that is the vaccine long game that controls the uprising that inevitably results. We'll see.

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  • Mon, Sep 13, 2021 - 11:24am

    #5
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2918

    6

    inside China

    A friend of mine did a fair amount of work inside China.  He shares your view.  His sense: the CCP's education system turns people into robots.  (Like America, only much worse).  I was worried about China due to their incredibly effective corruption campaign - i.e. "10 held by H for the Big Guy".  Not him.  "No new ideas can come from such a system.  If they can't steal something from the West, they have nothing."

    The society is also what you might call "low trust."  According to his experience, negotiations never end.  Things are constantly being re-negotiated long after agreement has been allegedly reached.

    I wonder if Musk has ever managed to repatriate any TSLA profits.  Perhaps he just needs to suck up to them just a little bit more.

    Last thought.  A bunch of US manufacturing is still there.  "This will end well" for sure.  Especially all those drug precursors.

    I'm kinda missing the Bad Orange Man at this point.

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  • Mon, Sep 13, 2021 - 11:42am

    Susan7

    Susan7

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 220

    6

    Susan7 said:

    I’m seeing this where I live. There’s a big yard sign on Main St. in my neighborhood and I’ve seen several people wearing the tee shirt. I thought it was a local thing.

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  • Wed, Sep 15, 2021 - 8:09pm

    #7
    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 1106

    10

    Box With Really Tall Sides

    Decades ago, while going to college, I knew and befriended people from all over the world. I was always curious about their culture and upbringing. It is amazing what you can learn if you just ask questions.

    When I spoke with Chinese school mates, the answers I got depended on if we were alone or in a group. After they learned to trust me with their secrets (because I didn't betray their confidence,) they would pour them out. When we were with others (even non-Chinese others) they remained subdued. When I asked one of them in private why he hesitated, he said that information is power and especially back in China. It made me sad, but that's the culture.

    Most of the Chinese students were extremely hard working! They would take copious notes, then translate to Chinese so they could memorize the details. They rarely had problems doing homework problems that were covered in the lecture. When the homework wasn't completely covered in the lecture or the required reading, they would have difficulties. Since I was older and we were friends, they'd seek me out for help. I'd do my best to explain it to them so they could understand. (If you really want to learn something, try teaching it.) At first, I thought their difficulty was due to language. After a while, I realized it is more a result of their culture.

    From a very young age, they're encouraged to provide the correct answer to authority figures. Those who master this skill are pushed into special classes and given special privileges. Failure is frowned upon. (That's an understatement.) In theory, that system should create masters. In reality, they are so afraid of failing that they are gun shy about trying things they aren't familiar with. The Chinese cultural demand for perfection stifles creativity.

    I know I only saw a small facet of the society, but my thought is that they're much more adept at checking than creating. They feel more comfortable inside the box.

    Grover

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:01am

    #8
    Curt504

    Curt504

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 22 2020

    Posts: 31

    0

    >>don't go to the ER till your lips are blue; well,,, the ICUs are full of the non-vax'ed!!!! Good reason for bad advice IMHO

    I hope all hear can respect my views and my choice re the vaccinations?

    We just stacked the Moderna on top of a J&J that we got in the first week J&J came out so its weakened by now.  We are taking our health into our own hands and getting vax booster the DIY way.  Just scheduled a time slot at Target, they asked is this your first and we said yes (first Moderna)...   We are choosing to get boosted because we live in an irresponsible state (our view) of Georgia and are foeced to travel every 2 mo to another irresponsible state FL.  We have events we we need to fly.  Even masking up, staying away from folks, we just feel safer getting boosted...     If we lived in San Francisco we'd not get the booster so soon anyway since thats one of the areas that is very safe.  But we live in an area with rampant ICU over crowding and death rate.  Heaven forbid if we had a car accident and needed trama help, those poor folks are waiting in the parking lot too.  A gun shot victum waited a week...  Its all crazy how other medical care needs are being squeezed out due to ICU/all beds being full.

    First the blue lips issue,  its because the ICUs are plumb full of the unvaxed!!!   I agree of course this is shockingly horrific advice but how about everyone get vaccinated AND wear masks AND stay out of packed bars and theaturs and we would take the first sign of a positive test.  Its a mystery why math isn't understandable.

    And then our views re the un-vaxed gobbling up expensive treatments, the blood oxygen device, that Remdesiver ($2k/dose).   Its horrific piled on top of horrific,,,  But we have worn out re the unvaxed using up our resources that we beleive resources should be allocated to the folks who get sick who are vaccinated, responsible citizens in my views.

    I hope you can step back and respect that I've made my own health decission, and its my views re how I'd re-jigger resources if I where in charge of ICUs, to the vaccinated and the unvaxed can wait in the parking lot.

    I'm horrified I would say this, just horrified!!!

    In the end;  I wish everyone of all believes health, happiness and a long life.   Be well folks,  Curt

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:02am

    #9
    Rector

    Rector

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 414

    5

    That's How They Designed "The Plan", Curt

    Curt,

    I for one fully respect your decision to get the vaccine in the manner you believe is best.  People should make their own decisions and willingly submit to the medical procedure/therapy/vaccine as they best understand.  The vaccine rollout in response to this virus is as fiendishly clever as it is disturbing if the "conspiracy theorist" people are correct.  If the vaccine endorsers are correct about the long-term safety of the vaccines then I guess the refuseniks are in for a rough time.  I fully expect a substantial increase in morbidity over the next 12 months which will determine who is correct.  A bit of a national IQ test if you will.  I am glad you are confident and comfortable with your decision.  Tough personal decision for everyone.  Best of luck to you.

    Rector

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:46am

    dreinmund

    dreinmund

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2011

    Posts: 345

    11

    Re: Curt - self-administered booster shot

    So, let me get this straight: you gave yourself a booster shot, despite official warnings by the FDA that safety and efficacy are not clear ?

    I just wish you were open-minded enough to let others make their own choices. But apparently, making your own choices and taking things into your own hands is only ok if you’re vaxxed ???

    I'd re-jigger resources if I where in charge of ICUs, to the vaccinated and the unvaxed can wait in the parking lot.

    Nice. Thank you for that display of open mindedness, tolerance and care for others. SMH.

     

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:29am

    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 1201

    0

    surely this is meant in

    sarcasm.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:36am

    #12

    Jim H

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1677

    6

    The Curt504 self-boostering idea is being sold to the Vax cultists by NYTimes

    So it turns out this is a thing among the most ardent Vax cultists.  It's really interesting to me since the narrative behind it quite parallels that of us believers in the horse paste... it's just a question of who is actually right.  The narrative is that the government can't get out of it's own way to help you, so you have to help yourself.  Many of my pseudo-intellectual vax enforcer East coast friends get their programming directly from the NYTimes;

    The J.&J. Conundrum - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:50am

    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 1003

    6

    brushhog said:

    Yeah, Im sure the problem is that people just cant get enough of the vaccine, lol. If the average smartphone user were to mumble something about wanting the vaccine within earshot of their phone, 50 popups would appear directing them to every clinic within a hundred miles.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:36pm

    #14
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2918

    2

    boost yourself

    Well, we have a fantastic natural experiment in progress here.  We have the Horse Paste self-treatment group, and the Boost Yourself vax group.  I'm a strong believer in taking responsibility for your own healthcare, and the Boost Yourself group is doing exactly that.  So why would I not be in favor of people doing the research themselves and taking personal responsibility??!

    Unlike Curt, however, I wouldn't deny the Boost Yourself group treatment at hospitals, just because they decided to take an unapproved booster and "ran into trouble" down the line as a result.  Nor would I deny people treatment who are obese, who smoke, who are alcoholics, who overdose on fentanyl, and so on.  That's just not in my moral code to do.

    Personal responsibility.  I'm a fan.  Best of luck, Curt!

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:44pm

    #15
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2918

    5

    hard working

    Grover - I'm going to second the impression that Chinese people are very hard working.  And under a great deal of pressure from the parents to succeed.  Friend of mine - born in the US - related to me that if he didn't get an A or a B on his report card in high school, he would be punished.  He'd have to go out to the garden, select a piece of bamboo, and his father would beat him with it - on the back of the legs, leaving large red welts - each time this happened.  So he got As and Bs.

    How common is this?  No idea.  But I can't help but notice the Chinese students are definitely very hard working.

    I always make a sharp distinction between the Chinese people, and the CCP dictatorship-oligarchy that's in charge of the Middle Kingdom right now.  People are hard-working.  The dictatorship - is evil.  As are all dictatorships.

    Power corrupts - and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    We are moving ever closer to a dictatorship here.  Ours will be just as evil as theirs, if we let things get that far.  The Vax Mandate is a step down that road for sure.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:27pm

    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 1106

    3

    The Beatings Will Stop When Morale Improves

    Dave,

    I'm not saying the Chinese aren't capable people. The ones I met were almost all exemplary people. Nonetheless, the motive wasn't to do well as much as it was to avoid punishment. Your friend's example about getting punished for bringing anything less than a B home illustrates my point.

    If you have the freedom to explore (without punishment for failing) you're more likely to find interesting things in the nether spaces of the mind. If you fear that you'll be punished for proposing something that ends up failing, you won't be as likely to go out on a limb.

    We're entering the same quagmire in a different way. Deep down, we know that everything on the internet is being collected and stored. There's too much to sift through now; however, if you do something dastardly, you can bet that all will be dredged up and analyzed. If the deed is considered dastardly enough, everyone who had contact with the egregious individual will face scrutiny.

    Would that make you feel more secure and more likely to go out on a limb? If you discovered the holy grail, would you bring it to the limelight ... so it could be stolen by those who have the power to seize it? Think about it. This is what my Chinese student friends faced. Their goal was to limit the beatings, not to be the best possible.

    Grover

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:04am

    hghfghfgh

    hghfghfgh

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2020

    Posts: 5

    0

    hghfghfgh said:

    you roted american cripled western medias-read this

    Glad you guys are exposing this 'Cro-Magnon knuckledragger' - as Brian says - it's a sewer you don't wanna go down' (I can't - my language would be unprintable..) - another massive point made by Daniel here - if this utterly vile character was saying the things he was saying about pretty much any other ethnic group he'd be gone - deleted.. but it's ant-China.. so it's 'ok'.. Anyroad - Salute Comrades!!

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 6:03am

    candyduncan

    candyduncan

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2021

    Posts: 4

    4

    candyduncan said:

    There would be less ICU crowding and deaths if early treatment like ivermectin could be used. There is a mountain of clinical data from the FLCCC showing this. My family had covid in the spring and we took ivemectin and it was a 3 day illness for us.

    Stay well friends!

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 9:08am

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 359

    0

    Moral code

    Nor would I deny people treatment who are obese, who smoke, who are alcoholics, who overdose on fentanyl, and so on.  That's just not in my moral code to do.

    I'm curious: how does your moral code make decisions when resources are strained to the point that it simply isn't possible to provide timely and effective help to all who need it?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 11:24am

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2918

    1

    moral codes

    Yoxa-

    Well first, if you're talking about a COVID19 problem, I'd prioritize early outpatient treatments to prevent hospital overflow.  We've gone over those treatments at length here at PP.  If you've missed those discussions, well, I'm really not sure what to tell you.  Its been a year now.  Early treatments exist, and they work.  If you haven't been paying attention...man.  Really don't know what to tell you.

    If your hypothetical situation of "hospital overflow" is a direct result of the politicians setting up a situation where they pretend no treatments exist, try to force vaccination as the only possible prophylaxis, and then they punish doctors who try to use the early treatments, and they prohibit prescriptions of the early treatment medicines, and then - after they make sure nobody gets treated early, and the poor helpless patients end up overflowing the hospital - and then those same politicians complain: oh my gosh, our hospitals are being overrun - what does my moral code say?

    It says: we should seize the politicians who constructed this false emergency and are responsible for all the deaths that happened as a predictable and direct result of their actions, try them publicly for war crimes in a tribunal, and then put them in jail for a very long time.

    My moral code says the same thing about the Nazis who shipped the Jews off to the gas chambers.  Same sort of sociopathic act, just different details in execution.

    What does your moral code say?

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  • Sat, Sep 25, 2021 - 5:42am

    #21
    doveki

    doveki

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    Joined: Sep 25 2021

    Posts: 10

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    doveki said:

    good

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  • Wed, Sep 29, 2021 - 9:03am

    #22
    PatriciaJKitchen

    PatriciaJKitchen

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    Joined: Sep 29 2021

    Posts: 10

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    PatriciaJKitchen said:

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