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    2021 is Going to be Rough!

    Or - what does a falling dollar have to do with homesteading?
    by Chris Martenson

    Friday, December 18, 2020, 7:31 PM

I can’t wait to get away from Covid coverage.  I’ve learned a lot, helped many, and yet I’m really anxious to get back to my main work in the world, which has to do with cultivating resilience.

This has been a huge year for us here in the Martenson household.

First, we moved right as Covid was breaking across the world.  The closing date on our new 182-acre property here in beautiful Chester MA was January 28th.

My first ALERT to the world about a mysterious virus was on January 23rd.

From that date and for the next 6 months I was producing daily videos.  Oh, and writing weekly content for the Peak Prosperity website.  Oh, and moving.  Oh, and assembling my first ever real estate syndication deal.  Oh, and converting our new property to a working farm.

That’s a lot of “ands” for a given year.  Thanks 2020!  But what 2020 had taketh away (visitors and travel) it also giveth – lots of time at the homestead.

And not a moment too soon!

Look, the world is an increasingly unstable place.  It is absolutely correct and right that people should become more resilient.

And that begins at home.  Maybe even right on your own garden.

If 2020 has done anything, it has normalized what was once ‘fringe” by making it completely obvious that the systems upon which we depend are rotten, unable to self-repair or reform, and therefore more fragile than we thought.

Our national health “managers” are not leaders, and are completely unable to escape whatever conflicts of interest bind their tongues as well as their hearts.  The political system is corrupt through and through and completely uninterested in any sort of introspection, let alone reform.

I’ve had people tell me this was “the fairest election in recent US history.”  I show them this map of Chicago’s 4th congressional district and ask them to point to its fairness so I can possibly see it:

Squint though I might, I just can’t see it.

Meanwhile the US Federal Reserve is busy exploding the currency supply as seen in this chart of M1:

Unbelievable!

As a reminder:

M1 is the money supply that is composed of physical currency and coin, demand deposits (savings & checking), travelers’ checks, other checkable deposits, and negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts

Looking at M1 in terms of its change from year ago levels makes it even more ridiculous seeming.

The only possibly response here ought to be WTF?

What could possibly be going through the minds of the Federal Reserve to justify this sort of monetary madness?

One more way to look at this is in terms of a percent change from a year ago.  How does M1 look under this condition?

This is insane.  Simply insane.

On a percent change basis, the entire money stock of the US — which includes all of the money stock built up over its entire history — increased by 65.6%.

In a single year!!!

At the same time the US is doing the worst job out of any country in the world managing Covid.  Simply terrible.  Awful.

Of course, as you probably know, I respect the hell out of Covid, but I don’t fear it any more than I fear the flu.

Why?

Because of Ivermectin, which has been overwhelmingly demonstrated to all but entirely block the transmission of the SARS2 virus as well as prevent the development of serious cases of Covid the disease.

Nobody at the NIH is interested in this data for some reason.  Fauci doesn’t care or want to hear about it.   All the US medical establishment wants is a vaccine.

That’s fine to an extent, but what about all the lives lost and ruined while we wait?  Is there no accounting for them?  How awful of the national health managers that they should not care about the most vulnerable, the weak, and the elderly.  At all.

The US Government is out of control in its spending, too:

That gap between receipts and expenditures is as staggering as it is frightening.  There’s just no possible way to get any of that back under control, especially not since 50% or more of small and medium sized bushiness (a.k.a. “the tax base”) have been destroyed for completely ill-advised and (as it turns out) completely unnecessary reasons — if only we had been using Ivermectin therapy and prophylaxis all along.

Against this backdrop the US dollar is busy falling, as it should.  There’s simply nothing good happening in the US at the moment that should support the dollar:

Crickey that’s a terrible-looking chart!

But it’s well deserved.  There really isn’t much going for the dollar right now.  The terrible US economy is being destroyed by ill-advised policies and a horribly bad Covid response, out-of-control spending, and a print-happy Federal Reserve.

Add it all up and you’ve got a lot of US dollars floating around. And a lot less to spend them on. So the dollar sinks.

As the USD sinks, other assets priced in dollars rise.

Like Bitcoin.  Congratulations Bitcoin Hodl-ers! (that stands for Hold On for Dear Life)

You know what else the dollar has been falling against all year?

Good real estate property, stocks, bonds, gold, and many other hard assets.  The press says they are “rising in price” but really it’s not that.  It’s too many dollars seeking a place to hide out and be safe.

The conclusion to all of this?

The Logic Of Homesteading

We’re entering a period of volatility and uncertainty.

Like myself and my fiancée Evie, many have come to the (proper) conclusion that the best way to hedge their bets is to build up their homestead, and make it more resilient.

We’ve really thrown ourselves at this project this year and it’s been both challenging and rewarding.

Here on the day of our first and quite significant snowfall, it’s time to sit back, reflect on the mistakes and progress alike, and to share what we’ve done in case it helps to inspire or educate anyone.

Make no mistake.  You really should be thinking about growing your own food and building your soil, too.

If any of the events outlined in The Great Reset come to pass, being as close as possible to your food production seems like a solid plan.  The closer the better.

Earlier today Evie and I hosted a live webinar for Peak Prosperity premium subscribers where they asked us anything they wanted about our projects here at Honey Badger Farms.

A replay video of the event is now available.

So if watching this Q&A with my fiancée and me is the inspiration you’ve needed to subscribe to Peak Prosperity’s premium service — which costs less than $1/day — click here to Enroll now.

And if you’re already a premium subscriber, click the button below to watch the replay video of today’s live event:

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113 Comments

  • Fri, Dec 18, 2020 - 7:58pm

    #1
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    3

    It's More Than the Fed, Of Course

    We have to include the G3 banks in this mess.

    When their combined (exploding) balance sheets are compared with Bitcoin's price, well, that's a mighty big coincidence!

    But that more than doubling of the G3 balance sheets is quite the sight to behold.

    I really don't believe there's any master plan to it.  It's just a pure, panicky reaction by some deeply corrupt and/or incompetent central bankers.  All they know is "more printing" and they haven't a clue how to even slow it down, let alone stop it, let alone reverse it.

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  • Fri, Dec 18, 2020 - 8:52pm

    #2

    000

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    File under? Careful what you ask for...

    https://theintercept.com/2020/12/18/the-trump-administration-has-planted-a-landmine-in-federal-agencies/

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 12:41am

    #3
    David Henry

    David Henry

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    12

    clarification question

    Chris, Congratulations on the new property and life partner! The work you've done on covid this year has literally saved many lives. The graphs on money printing are ominous and clear even though the mainstream doesn't want to see them. And right on about raising food...potatoes (raised outside) are my calorie crop since I'm in the north but I also put up a 20' wide by 68' long hoop house for veg. The last two years I've been keenly realizing the difference between gardening for 'salad' and gardening for calories, very different things.

    But my question is about the obviously gerrymandered congressional district you put up an image of. Congressional districts are quite gerrymandered in the US these days and both sides do it. Although Republicans have done it more successfully such that Democrats have to win substantially more votes just to have equal representation in congress. But I'm guessing that's not the point you intended to make? A quick google search suggested that the district in question was the result of a court order to allow for greater Latino representation, but that the map adopted was offered by Dennis Hastert, the long term (Republican) speaker of the House (who resigned in disgrace for paying hush money to cover up child molestation charges. But I'm getting off topic.).

    My point is: unless there were gerrymandered districts that cross state lines (spoiler: there are not), then gerrymanders would have no effect on state-level tallies for president, right? It's the total votes of a state, not districts that award electoral college votes. (Ignoring Maine and Nebraska) So how could gerrymandered districts make state level tallies for president unfair in any way? Maybe I'm missing something?

    If you argument is actually that somehow Trump was cheated out of a significant number of votes, presenting evidence that would make that case specifically would be better I think. The graphic you present shows gerrymandering but I don't see how it proves that the presidential election was unfair.

    Just wondering.

     

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 3:59am

    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

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    Rely to file under careful what you ask for

    Good. Unelected Civil service employees ARE the swamp.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 5:17am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Relax, it's just Fourth Turning drama

    We don't have the "civil service independent of graft, bribery, patronage, or corporate influence" that The Intercept assumes in its gloss. Quite the contrary: the civil service is composed primarily of left-voting partisans, in part because the "merit-based system" includes the off-books evaluation of every potential hire's political and cultural orientation, connections, and friends -- just as happens in media and the academy; which is why so many right-voters have to hide their political inclinations throughout their careers. That's something seldom a problem for left-voting employees, academics, and journalists who, rather, take pride in the public exercise of their partisanship.

    I agree with The Intercept that the gutting of protective rules runs the risk (I'd say, the certainty) of increased partisanship in the Civil Service. And I agree with Mysterymet's observation that the unelected civil servants are the swamp. I conclude that the problem is the entrenched partisanship of the civil service corps -- that so famously thwarted W's presidency (to the point he told Glenn Beck that all presidents discover they really don't have the power to change very much), and that have done their best to undermine the Trump effort at breaking their stranglehold on domestic and international policy and practice. Presidential administrations with an outlook that agrees with the civil servants' shared progressive goals fare well; those that don't experience constant frustration - which persistent reality is the epitome of the tail wagging the dog.

    This is all Fourth Turning stuff: the failure of institutions to do their appointed duties as intended. Governmental institutional actors no longer have the people's interests and preferences foremost; they do not see themselves as public "servants," convinced their personal proclivities and interests are what's best for the country at large. In reaction to that, a very few public officials show up and do their best to blow up the corrupted system in hopes of settling a more appropriate and subservient institutional culture.

    The Trump effort will fail. We are in the Fourth Turning. It will take a more significant crisis than a few thousand federal sycophants losing their jobs to move us into the First Turning. All that's going to happen, at most, is an experience of frustration by the incoming Biden Administration. But I doubt much of that's going to happen because I doubt much civil service disruption is going to take place, even though it would be a good thing for our plebian rights to self-governance and personal property if it did.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 5:42am

    permiegirl

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    Reply to Mysterymet

    I got something completely different reading that article.  By allowing former appointees to "burrow in" and hire and fire at will, they can politicize an agency by installing cronies and sycophants.  Thus making it more "swampy".  Now, I agree with what I think is your point that there's lots of deadwood in government jobs.  And that the system doesn't disincentive that.  But looks to me like this isn't the fix for the problem and can even make it far worse.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 6:11am

    #7
    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Homesteading

    My wife and I have been building our homestead for 10 years. Its literally been a labor of love. It was a hunting property for a guy who lived 500 miles away. Just a cabin on 100 acres. We built a barn, cleared many acres, built more fencing than I care to remember, we raised sheep, cows, chickens, etc.

    I bought some equipment and learned how to make hay. Spent long summers cutting, raking, baling, and stacking hay. Put in huge gardens which produced incredible crops. Cut split and stacked countless cords of wood to heat our small house.

    My beard has gone from jet black to grey over these years. My hands are like one giant callous and my palms have the consistency of sand paper. My eyes have permanent laugh lines and leathery creases that werent there before. Some where along the lines we had a son. He was born in the very early spring like a wild pup.

    Now if you were a bird looking down you'd see old farmer Brushhog doing his rounds and behind him trailing a small version of himself carrying wood in winter, riding on the tractor in the warm season, and helping to pull potatoes and greens out of his gardens in the fall.

    The homestead is not just an strategy of preparedness [ though it is certainly that ], and its not just a place to live. Its a life lived in harmony with the seasons, near to the source of it all, deep down at the marrow of life.

    Whether the world goes to hell or not, homesteading is [ and always has been ] a wise choice.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 6:39am

    #8

    lambertad

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    Fairest election

    The election included more people than just the POTUS/VPOTUS. Although it was a presidential election year, congress people, senators, governors were up for election, among other people like judges, AGs, etc. Why does congress have ~11% approval rating but > 90% re-election rate? Because of district gerrymandering, a la the picture above.

    If you gerrymander your district to include mainly republicans OR democrats and then control who becomes the primary candidate (see Bernie Sanders vs HRC 2016, and 2020 as proof of who controls the primary, i.e. the insiders do) then you can almost guarantee yourself re-election unless of course your utterly corrupt or do something incredibly stupid and have to resign.

    However, if the district was 50% liberal/50% conservative, there would be some percentage of undecided voters and the candidates would actually have to make a case for why they should be re-elected and likely the incumbents wouldn't have a 90+% re-election rate. They would have to actually do something to win re-election.

    Simply focusing on presidential election misses the entire point of the picture above. Hope that helps.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 7:44am

    #9
    Donn Edwards

    Donn Edwards

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    Gerrymandering and voting

    Here is a simple fix to the gerrymandering problem: a congressional district (or any other similar border) must include an entire zip code, and must be comprised of contiguous zip codes. It may not contain a portion of a zip code unless it crosses a state border.

    This would mean that the parties will have to accept everyone in a given ZIP code. It won't stop the gerrymandering completely, but it may get rid of the egregious examples like the one one Chris pointed out.

    It is clear to me as an outside observer that the political system in the USA is deeply corrupt and self-serving, and that it is unlikely to change for the better anytime soon.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 7:50am

    #10
    Chris Martenson

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    Re; Fairest election

    Simply focusing on presidential election misses the entire point of the picture above. Hope that helps.

    Yes, my intent exactly.

    It's the old magician's trick- hey look at this one small thing I can prove is real....and ignore all these many other things happening too.

    Fair representation means verifiable voting processes and systems, reasonable districts, and open and fair primaries.

    The USA is batting 0.000 on those fronts.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 7:50am

    #11
    erickston

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    erickston said:

    Chris - if your membership could benefit from Ivermectin use I think we'd all like to know where to get some, how much to take, and when if we sense an infection coming on.  I'd certainly prefer that vs vaccine.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 8:31am

    #12
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Homestead

    Yes it would be lovely if everyone had a homestead. We could all be Amish and that would be even better.

    The fact of the matter is the US is over 80% urban. The reasons are many. There is a 30% increase in the 21st century of urban dwellers.

    Is it a good idea? yeah. Is it a good collective solution? Not really.

    There are numerous hurdles to entry. Not everyone can afford 180 acres. The demographics preclude the vast majority of the boomers to embark on that lifestyle change. Young people saddled with student debt certainly can't afford it and they have to live where there are jobs.

    Good idea for a few as a coping mechanism but long term for the majority meh not so much

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 8:36am

    Thors Hammer

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    Fair Elections, USA style

    Chris

    I live in a state that has voted for the same party for President for my entire lifetime.  That means that my vote in National elections is automatically thrown out should I be silly enough to waste my time with the election charade.

    Any nation with the slightest pretensions of Democracy must adhere to the One Person One Vote principle.  Electors, gerrymandering,  voting by state, billion dollar campaign circuses---- all serve only as smoke screens to hide how little they represent the will of the people.  And this is before the actual vote count is manufactured by machines designed as open doorways for fraud.  In 2020 the Dominion servers in the CIA post at Frankfort Germany stage managed the entire vote count to generate the required distribution of votes.  (Statistical margin for error supporting any other explanation is in the million to one range)

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 8:57am

    Thors Hammer

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    Thors Hammer said:

    Let's start with a first ballot presidential field consisting of anybody who can gather 100,000 verified signatures on a petition.   After the first ballot, the remaining 20 candidates will be entirely publicly funded, and be required to engage in a series of debates with randomly chosen opponents from the field.  The election ends and President chosen after the winner receives 50+ % of votes  in a runoff election(s).  The entire process should be time limited to 30 days so the country will not be subject to endless circus charades, and can go back to work like people do in parliamentary election nations.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 9:14am

    Thors Hammer

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    Thors Hammer said:

    100% spot on, Brushhog---The virtues of the life style are the reward.

    Unfortunately in a Collapse scenario the ability to produce and store food are of secondary importance in comparison to having formed a community capable of uniting and mustering the force necessary to defend itself against hungry armed bands more ruthless than you. Especially if you are with walking distance of a big city like Boston as is Chris's new homestead.

     

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 9:19am

    #16
    EddieLarry

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    We’re a Republic, not...

    a Democracy.  We vote for people who supposedly work for us!  However, once elected, they become ‘politicians’ and govern for themselves, oops, I mean for us.

    it seems to me better to understand this then to make up theories that will never get enacted.  With clear eyes, we can work around things and work toward resilience.

    Being realistic is tough.  But you can always make yourself an Old Fashioned.  Life is Good!

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 9:36am

    #17
    Netlej

    Netlej

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    Ivermectin portal

    Chris - At this point I think it would be very beneficial to put all the information on ivermectin and other prophylaxis protocols  meds and vits together and have a very clear link to it near the top of your home page. A lot of people are looking for more info and it is not easy to find all of the great stuff from you and the rest of the group.

    Just a thought.

    jef

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 10:07am

    #18
    brushhog

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    More on Homesteading....

    On my Homestead, I have attempted to incorporate what the late, great John Seymour referred to as "high farming";

    "High farming" was  term used in 19th century Europe to describe a carefully worked out balance between animals and plants, so that each fed the other. The plants feeding the animals directly, the animals feeding the soil with their manure and the land feeding the plants.

    A variety of animals and plants were both rotated around the same land so that each species took what it needed out and put what it had to contribute back in with the needs of the soil uppermost in the homesteader's mind. Each animal and crop was considered for what it had to contribute to the soil.

    If the same crop is grown on the same piece of land year after year, the organisms that attack that crop will build up in the area until they become uncontrollable. Thus we use a carefully laid out system of rotation once known in old England as the "Norfolk four course rotation". This was an ecologically sound system of rotation that served as a model for my own homestead. It works like this;

    1. Primary "ley"; A ley was grass and clover sown for a temporary period. The grass is grazed off by animals. The purpose was to increase the fertility of the land with the nitrogen fixed in the root of the clover as well as the dung left behind by grazing animals. This mass of vegetation and manure was plowed back into the land at the end of the "ley".

    2. Root break. Here root vegetables are planted with the aim of working the soil to depth and improving "tilth".

    3 Winter cereal break. Typically a winter rye sown at the end of the root break. This holds fertility and tilth  for the final cash crop;

    4. Spring cereal break. This was usually a drilled barley crop undersown with grass/clover to begin the next "ley".

    Now I have changed this system to meet my needs. Im not an 18th century farmer so I dont have need for a cereal grain crop but the basic rotation still applies. My twist is;

    Ley
    Root break

    winter rye

    Vegetable garden

    If it werent winter I could show pictures of my soil. Over time it has improved immensely. It is now deeper, looser, black loam.

    As to some ugly comments degrading the homesteading lifestyle and purpose, I would say these are mostly made by some small minded, bitter people and we shouldnt pay it too much attention. Homesteading is an art, a science, and a worthy way of life that brings the individual into harmony with his environment. I have never, personally, encountered a more substantial way of life or found a better use for my time and efforts.

    It is true that "not everybody can homestead", its also true that not everybody can walk. We dont aim to live our lives at the lowest possible human standard because some unfortunates are stuck there. If I can't walk, hobbling you wont make my situation any better. Yet many people do think that way.

    That being said a homesteader does not need "180 acres" in order to be a homesteader. Ive seen well designed, functional homesteads on an acre.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 10:17am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to Homestead (#12)

    Mohammed,

    I agree.

    But there are additional problems to homesteading.

    There are many people like myself who - due to age and health issues - simply cannot homestead.

    To the people who can homestead, I wish them all good fortune.

    It is just not a solution for myself or people like me.

     

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 10:20am

    pachadwick

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    I was thinking the same thing - a catchy kind of url

    What I came up with was CureForCovid.world

    Any way it was tricky to secure.. because guess what ICANN say that COVID is controlled word and you can't use it..... lets see if I can do something useful for humanity?

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 11:23am

    alaskansaint

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    alaskansaint said:

    It would make a difference when selection of the president goes to last resort, where Congress elects the President.  Despite popular opinion, election of the President is not by popular vote for a reason.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 1:30pm

    #22
    m.brogren

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    What about the climate...

    There is going to be migration north on all continents and  US is going to be hit harder than you could imagine. Droughts and temperatures that is unbearable. And then also torrential rains and flooding costal citys hit hardest. In our lifetime.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 1:46pm

    #23
    BFR549

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    BFR549 said:

    Chris, I think the label you use: "National Health Managers" is being too nice and respectful. These people, at best, are "clerks". National Health Clerks is a better label for these disgusting, vile losers.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 1:54pm

    m.brogren

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    https://www.jeannemayell.com/world-psychic-predictions-2020-beyond/#ead4093610b220e21

    Enjoy 2021 we have more than this to sort out. But its all up to our kids.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 2:35pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    What about Climate

    It looks like that is partly what the 'reset,' is about--an attempt to mitigate the worst effects of what is coming.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 3:21pm

    #26
    kmaher

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    Is this why Ivermectin and other cheap, effective approaches have to be suppressed?

    In order to pave the way for the (payday) promise of a covid-19 vaccine, there needed to be an exemption provided to speed the process.  Maybe once the vaccine is in place they can afford to "discover" the cheap, effective alternatives that exist.

    “The FDA may issue an EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) to allow unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent COVID-19 when there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.

     

    -https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

     

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 4:54pm

    #27
    Mary59

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    Excellent Article on the Great Reset - Very well written

    The ‘Great Reset’ for dummies…

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 7:19am

    #28

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

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    M1 Money Supply expansion caused by movement of M2 into M1

    Analysis of the cause of the M1 money explosion.  It doesnt appear to be direct money in circulation expansion, rather monies moving from Money Markets/Savings to demand accounts.





     

     

     

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 7:25am

    #29
    Kate

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    5

    Have you all looked at the Ice Age Farmer site?

    Chris interviewed Christian recently and alerted me to his message.  Holy Moly!!!  What the heck is coming down?  He describes it very well.  Not sure how having a garden and some animals is enough to get around not having a card to buy anything...like gasoline and diesel, I imagine, not to mention anything at a grocery store.   What do you all think of his fully assembled puzzle of insanity?

    Time to stock up on a few more things.

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 8:16am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    4

    Homesteading

    That is exactly my point Mike. The vast majority of Amerikaans will not be able to homestead for a multitude of reasons.  That is the ugly factual comment.

    It is not a solution, it is one coping mechanism. The demographics are clear. Baby boomers make up over a 1/4 of the population. For the most part they are too old to start that lifestyle. 

    For people like Mr. Brushhog it works and as I said it is a good solution. It is however not a one size fits all. As a matter of fact it is not even a one size fits many. In the podcast with JHK he clearly stated it is probably too late for people to start now. Is he right? Perhaps

    The Jeffersonian ideal of a nation of small farmers left the bus station many moons ago.

    The facts are the majority are physically, financially or not interested in the homestead lifestyle

    If you have a hard time with ugly facts, the problem is not with the facts.

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 10:48am

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    It is not a solution, it is one coping mechanism. The demographics are clear. Baby boomers make up over a 1/4 of the population. For the most part they are too old to start that lifestyle...

    That's kind of the point isn't it?

    Greer, Kunstler, and a host of others that get mentioned a lot on this site have made their position perfectly clear: there IS no solution that works for the majority of those of us treading this path. We had one final chance to course correct back in 2008. We did not take it. Why? Not least because so many had invested years and decades of their lives pouring their net worth into living arrangements that depended upon us NOT changing course.

    Look, I don't have a clue what the future holds. Maybe those guys predicting doom are right and maybe they aren't. How would I know? But I know what kind of changes I have seen since I walked across the stage in 1995 to take my bachelor's into hand. If you showed me the world I see around me then I would think that collapse had already occurred. If these changes haven't resulted in a change in course I am not sure we have that ability left to us. The system is locked on course and that is the way it will stay.

    So what would lead you to believe that there is a path open to us that will actually serve all those baby boomers and the rest of our generations? Homesteading certainly isn't the solution to all of our woes.... but what is?

    Will

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 1:03pm

    Nancki

    Nancki

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    Nancki said:

    1. Hmm 182 acres huh?  Ever think about starting a community? LOL

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 2:47pm

    #33
    Prep101

    Prep101

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    1

    WEF's Cyber Polygon is the Event 201 of the coming Cyberpandemic.

    2 essential video's on the coming Cyberpandemic:

    1) "Next Crisis Will Be Bigger Than COVID" warns World Economic Forum. The Power Grid / Finance will be Down.

    “Next Crisis Bigger than COVID” – Power Grid/Finance Down – WEF’s Cyber Polygon

    and

    2) The Cyberpandemic Has Begun: SolarWinds + FireEye - Anything can happen now

    The Cyberpandemic Has Begun: SolarWinds + FireEye – Anything can happen now

    Who gains from this?

    The Globalists and the participants of Cyber Polygon.

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 2:53pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    There IS a solution that works for the majority

    That's kind of the point isn't it? Greer, Kunstler, and a host of others that get mentioned a lot on this site have made their position perfectly clear: there IS no solution that works for the majority of those of us treading this path.

    The solution? Looking closely at those positions/predictions over the last 10-30 years. Then objectively measure how accurate the were. I think you will find there were wildly inaccurate. And thus, I wouldn't trust their position on a future path.

    My position? It's never too late to change my mind to get closer to reality, and understanding what's in front of one's nose is often quite difficult. This is the very definition of humility per Aquinas. I've found living the good life is merely understanding the world, then making a series of accurate predictions, and finally acting on them. Most people fail at one of these steps, and life becomes very hard and frustrating.

    The host of predictors who "get mentioned a lot on this site" usually fail the first step, but boldly act on the third.

    But for those who constantly change their mind to fit the data in our constantly changing world (Bezos once said those who are "right a lot" are those who "change their mind a lot") life becomes very easy. At any stage of life.

     

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 3:01pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to Penguin Will

    Penguin Will,

    You wrote:

    That's kind of the point isn't it?

    Greer, Kunstler, and a host of others that get mentioned a lot on this site have made their position perfectly clear: there IS no solution that works for the majority of those of us treading this path.

    That is pretty much the way I see it. I have read a lot of history. This is always the way it is.

    The Big Shots make their plans. The rest of the world bears the consequences.

    Some get through relatively unscathed. Some are not so lucky.

    I have reconciled myself that that is the way it will play out.

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  • Sun, Dec 20, 2020 - 5:40pm

    #36
    derelict

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    ZZZZZ

    The sound of Chris using the string trimmer on his new acres, rather than dig into the charts and accurately explain them. I guess it's easier, and more salacious, to put up scary hockey stick graphs with little analysis.

    Chris I know you understand annualizing numbers, so if you stop to think about it, the very process of a helicopter dump of money such as stimulus payments to individuals and business, will cause demand deposit accounts to grow in a sharp uptick. The annualization of those amounts will make it appear worse.

    Then the chart of expenditures vs receipts. The blue line is labeled Federal government current tax receipts, when at $2T we know that this is only personal income tax receipts and excludes other important categories of government receipts such as social security taxes and medicare (social insurance).

    The thing is, things are bad enough without overplaying it.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 4:35am

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    The solution? Looking closely at those positions/predictions over the last 10-30 years. Then objectively measure how accurate the were. I think you will find there were wildly inaccurate. And thus, I wouldn't trust their position on a future path.

    My position? It's never too late to change my mind to get closer to reality, and understanding what's in front of one's nose is often quite difficult....

    This is a very good post MKI... one that all of us should read and digest.

    You have to understand where I am coming from though. You might have misunderstood my perspective. I am an X'er not a Boomer, so there's my age. And I am not generally given to fanboy followings or conspiracy theories. With that out of the way, I have to say that what I have seen of the trajectory of my nation has been alarming.

    In my lifetime we have traded off our manufacturing and industrial tax bases for State Dept. alliances at the behest of a completely out of touch economic profession. We have taken an education system that was the envy of the world and turned it into a cross between a baby sitting institution and a support group. We have taken one of the most inward looking and isolationist nations and turned it into one that is both feared and loathed in large swaths of the world because of belligerence and a need for constant conflict. We've taken the world's deepest and most transparent bond market and turned it into a free candy store for Wall St... one could go on forever.

    Point is: Does this not look like a nation already unmoored and taking on water to you? 🙂

    I'm not saying we face a collapse. Hell I don't believe that myself. But what I see around me is a nation that has lost its mojo and refuses to see it. We're the obese, wheezing, and delusional guy in the gym who sees the Division 1 athlete of his youth when he looks in the mirror. And no, that "Property of Ohio State Football" sweatshirt from 20 years ago impresses no one.

    Are we running out of soybeans? Hell, I don't know. But would you put it past the trifling bunch running this nation to be blindsided by something so basic and easy to avoid?

    Will

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 5:45am

    nigel

    nigel

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    Cow boy ivermectin.

    I don't know the dosages for humans, but I used Ivermectin as a pour on back-liner drench for the cows. You can buy bottles of it at the local produce or rural shop. You just squirt the right amount into the applicator and pour it directly on the backs of the cows, no ingestion required. They have a quantity by weight calculation on the back on the bottle.

    For what it's worth, when I drenched the cows I never wore PPE or gloves and splash that crap all over myself, been doing it for years and I'm still here,

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 5:49am

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Nobody said Homesteading was a solution for everybody

    Mohammed, show me where anyone said homesteading is the solution for everybody? Nobody ever said that so Im not sure why you are so invested in knocking homesteading because "not everyone can do it".

    Its a silly argument you are making. The only solutions that have merit are huge collective solutions where everyone benefits equally? Communism doesnt work my friend. Life doesnt work that way.

    There are no such collective solutions coming. NONE. There are ONLY individual solutions, of which Homesteading is one model that looks promising.

    Diet and exercise will decrease blood pressure for some people but NOT ALL people. So you would discard diet and exercise, not talk about it or recommend it because not 100% of high blood pressure sufferers benefit. Its silly. What about all those who do benefit? They dont count? lol.

    Show me ANYTHING that works for everybody...no such thing exists. That is a given. We already know that. So why you feel the need to down talk homesteading and self reliance because you and some others say you can't or wont do it is a mystery to me.

    You speak of ugly facts, let me give you some; We have an uncertain future ahead which circumstances suggest is going to be harder. We are going to have to make due with less. We are going to have to learn to employ ingenuity to get by.

    Like it or not, you will have to practice some level of self reliance. Homesteading is exactly that, whether employed on half an acre or 180. It makes good sense to start now. In real life, just because you can't do something doesnt mean you wont suffer the consequences of not doing it. If you can't or wont practice any kind of self reliance, IMO its going to suck to be you very soon.

    There is no such thing as a collective. We are always, first and foremost, a collection of individuals. As the individuals in a group succeed, so does the group. If the individuals fail so does the collective. If you are waiting for some solution from above that will absolve you of having to do it yourself or save you from the realities of our predicament, IMO you will fall very hard.

    We're not all going to hold hands and save the world. I suggest you find some solutions that work for you...and never mind whether or not they work for the guy down the street. You cant help him if you dont help yourself.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 7:33am

    #40
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Hi Mr. Brushhog

    Good of you to reply.

    Here is what you posted "You speak of ugly facts, let me give you some; We have an uncertain future ahead which circumstances suggest is going to be harder. We are going to have to make due with less. We are going to have to learn to employ ingenuity to get by."

    WE is a collective. So when I Say collective I am using collective the same way you are using WE.

    The paradigm you outline is one of many possibilities. This site has since the beginning that WE will have to "make do with less" . That is certainly a possibility, for some . It is not true for the owners of this site and apparently it is not true for you.

    You state "we have an uncertain future ahead" . Well nothing has really changed in 4 billion years. As the old saying goes " the only thing certain is death and taxes".

    Clearly you are quite defensive about your particular choice. It is not necessary. I have homesteaded since 1971. I know exactly what it entails and I also know it is suitable, or even possible, for an extremely small segment of the population.

    I am extremely optimistic about MY future (except for the death and taxes part lol)

    So have a good holidays. The future is so bright you will have to wear shades.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 7:55am

    #41
    Hans

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    Agree with Mohammed

    I understand very well what Mohammed means. Not everyone is in the position to build a homestead. I think it will be a very small minority who can do that.
    On Wednesday I become the owner of a piece of land. 750 square meters. That is converted 0.185 acre. 0.185! and I consider myself very fortunate to have been given that opportunity and to be in a position to afford it. Land is scarce in Belgium and therefore expensive. I'm going to use that piece of land to grow vegetables, herbs, fruit and chickens there in the way they do at Singing Frogs. That's something I learned here on PP. I will also plant willow and linden trees there to be able to harvest deadwood. That's on a different order of magnitude than Chris's sawmill, but that's where the idea came from.

    So I make a kind of derivative of what Chris does, but within my own capabilities. From large scale to small. Making that derivative is something I miss here on PP. You have to make that derivative for yourself and that's a shame.
    I'd really like to see us talk more about that. What do you do if you don't have a garden at all, or even a balcony? Could it be possible to keep quail in an apartment? How do you get rainwater in an apartment if you don't have a balcony? Does 1 solar panel in front of the window provide enough to burn a light at night? How do you cook in an apartment without electricity or gas? But also topics such as, where can you find Community Supported Agriculture in a big city? How can you collaborate with your neighbors in your apartment building to jointly do projects and share things? How do you grow vegetables indoors? Those kinds of topics.
    Let's work together more and work things out like this, based on the big-scale example of Chris and Evie.

    @Mohammed: I live in a suburban area and have that 0.185 acre plot of land 10 miles away. What is your situation?

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 8:02am

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    1

    Merry Christmas to you to

    Of course when I speak of "we" I imply a group of individuals not a collective acting as a single unit.

    I hope the holiday finds you well, and hopefully, even though you resist, some of what I have said will sink in. No need for negativity  regarding other people's outlooks or choices. If I am defensive, it was by way of reaction to your offensive choice of words. Maybe Im reading it wrong.

    Homesteading, like everything in life, is not for everyone but for those of us who practice it, it works for us.

    Thanks again.
    B

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 8:29am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Hi Penguin

    "So what would lead you to believe that there is a path open to us that will actually serve all those baby boomers and the rest of our generations? Homesteading certainly isn't the solution to all of our woes.... but what is?"

    Well since I first read " The End of Money" by Chris Martenson I have been investigating your question. I found it 9 years ago. The answer is really quite simple. SOUND MONEY.

    I got my first BTC 9 years ago this month. Gold bugs are right about gold being sound money. Unfortunately it is no longer money. BTC was developed by Satoshi Nakamoto in response to the meltdown of 08. It is a superior solution to sound money than gold.

    For an in depth exposition I suggest "The Bitcoin Standard" by Safiedean Ammous.

    Bitcoin is far more than a speculative asset despite what most of the media and discussions would lead you to believe.

    Or alternatively one could look to Buddhism the basis of which is "Life is Suffering" Then one could embrace the Eight Fold Noble Path which provides a way out of suffering.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 8:45am

    wannabe_cantillionaire

    wannabe_cantillionaire

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    wannabe_cantillionaire said:

    This is more inline with what I am planning as well.

    I found a lot of inspiration from the couple in this video, who are hitting on all of the important points of reliance, self-sustainability, and community while living on 1/10 of an acre in the suburbs.





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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 8:53am

    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    Making that derivative is something I miss here on PP. You have to make that derivative for yourself and that's a shame.... I'd really like to see us talk more about that.

    You and I both Hans, you and I both. I started a thread a month or so ago inquiring about successes and failures of our little group as regards becoming more independent/self-reliant. I was honestly curious how we did in 2020. Sadly it flamed out and I deleted it after a couple days with no replies. 🙂

    Congratulations on your property purchase! I have never been to Belgium, and only to Europe one time, but like a lot of Europe I have seen some absolutely beautiful photos of the place.

    Let us know how things turn out with your new home. 🙂

    Will

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 8:58am

    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    Mohammed: I'd love to see us with a currency that is less prone to abuse. And I think having a harder form of money would have precluded the decimation of our industrial base. But I am far from sure it would cure all of our ills.

    I can point to a lot of problems that are more related to energy than anything else. Some of them seemingly unsolvable. So although I do think we can improve the currency situation a whole heck of a lot I still think it is only one of the many problems we face now.

    But I could well be mistaken.

    Will

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 9:08am

    MKI

    MKI

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    Reality in the USA

    PW: I am an X'er not a Boomer, so there's my age. Me too. But I don't think this matters in the pursuit of truth, as  one should live every minute of life to the fullest.

    PW: I am not generally given to fanboy followings or conspiracy theories. Me too. The difficulty is knowing what "is" reality, as things are getting very odd by the day.

    PW: I have to say that what I have seen of the trajectory of my nation has been alarming.

    Here is where we might disagree. Why? Because I think the last 50 years of peace and prosperity in the USA has been the unusual part, mere luck. not the historical norm of humanity. So I am mentally prepared for the complete collapse of the USA, and expect it. Any nation is made up of people and culture, and the USA has wide open borders, a mixing pot of race and culture that no longer melts, and even lacks rule of law anymore.

    This is reality. I don't let my likes or dislikes interfere with understanding reality.

    PW: In my lifetime we have traded off our manufacturing and industrial tax bases for State Dept. alliances at the behest of a completely out of touch economic profession. We have taken an education system that was the envy of the world and turned it into a cross between a baby sitting institution and a support group. We have taken one of the most inward looking and isolationist nations and turned it into one that is both feared and loathed in large swaths of the world because of belligerence and a need for constant conflict. We've taken the world's deepest and most transparent bond market and turned it into a free candy store for Wall St... one could go on forever.

    I agree with all of this. It won't be fixed.  Why? Because a nation is made up of people, and our families and culture have broken down. So every institution will break down slowly at best, quickly at worst. This is who we are today as a people.

    I'm not saying we face a collapse. Hell I don't believe that myself.

    I do, but only if you think that living in Detroit or Mexico is a "collapse". Myself, I think it mere common sense to be prepared for rapid change, and makes for a better, healthier life anyway.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 9:16am

    herewego

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    13

    small works too (plus questions)

    Congratulations on your purchase, Hans. I wish you a wonderful, productive journey with this little piece of land.  Tell us how it goes!

    I have 6000 square feet (557 square meters, 1/7th acre).  On that I garden extensively and also have a very small house. Do I want more?  For sure.  I'd love the privacy and space of 10 acres or more but that's out of my reach so I work with this.  The garden is a bliss and a wonder, and surprisingly huge given how small it is.  The produce output is overwhelming - far more than I could eat - and the quality is usually outstanding.  Sure, there is a learning curve and problem solving is a constant necessity (pests, properly built plant supports, managing increasingly weird weather, regulations, time management).  Every year I love this little homestead more deeply, and yes, 1/7th acre IS enough to homestead.  The scale is smaller, but the love of the land, the willingness to work and learn, the understanding that it is up to me to function in this biosphere just like any other animal and the need to manage resources wisely is all the same.

    I'd like to represent for all the people who will never afford an acre, much less 100.  Many of those have lawns bigger than my garden, or neighbors with lawns, or a suburban property that leverages to an acre on the land.  We can take a lot of responsibility for our own sustenance.  Let's not be slowed in that vital process by stories of other people who do have dozens or hundreds of acres.  Any farmer or homesteader will tell you that it takes time to learn the skills of working with the land, so start now.  Microgreens in the bathroom window will teach a lot about plants, light, water, beauty and gratitude.  One zucchini plant is a lesson in the generosity of the plant world.

    The next step for me is a decision: to carry on as a market gardener, or give that up and move into supplying as many of my own food needs as possible here.  Market gardening in this sparsely populated area is not proving profitable.  I work tons, have great customers who love my produce, and... come up with, sadly, hardly any cashy money at the end of the season.  I love growing food and don't intend to stop, but need to consider the financial side too so I can retire someday.  Maybe it's time for a new strategy: chickens, ducks, hulless grains, possibly a pig if space allows, a rental tiny house (?).

    I work full time.  Can anyone tell me if having small livestock is a terrible idea if no-one is home during the day to protect and care for the critters?  We have bear, cougars and some horrid local chicken-killing dogs cruising through occasionally.  I will have to plan for bullet-proof deterrence.

    Can we have a discussion sometime, small-holders, on the issue of dietary fats?  How do we produce them if we can't just grow and process and acre of sunflowers, or have a pig or a diary cow? What did you try?  How did it work?

    Tiny homesteads rule!

    Susan

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 9:57am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Hi Hans

    Thanks for the question. I had a 142 acre farm. I downsized to 4 acres

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 10:21am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Hi Penguin

    I guess you missed the part about "The Bitcoin Standard" Probably doesn't matter nobody reads books anymore, unless the name of the book is Facebook.

    We have been w/o sound money for so long (5 generations), none of us know what it means anymore. We have to rely on history to get an idea and once again this being the United States of Amnesia we as a country don't remember what we had for breakfast and if we do what we had is not what we thought it was.

    It appears to me that there are many new people here, mainly because of covid coverage, that have not watched the crash course. Thus we for the most part have very superficial discussions around the issues.

    I am not going to summarize all the points raised by Ammous. I don't have the time, patience and I hate to type.

    But I will say this ALL decisions made in a sound money regime are vastly different from those made in an unsound money regime. Yes energy is an issue. It is an issue for the future not the present. There is plenty of energy now. Just ask China. Energy is not an excuse for our current circumstances. Unsound money is.

     

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 11:24am

    #51

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 696

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    Homesteading

    I have 1.7 acres, about 1 acre cleared.  Plenty for a vegan, but not enough to harvest adequate firewood.

    20, 40, or 100 acres sounds delightful, but practical?

    I did the math.  Unless I screwed something up, there are 0.44 acres of arable land on the planet per human.  That’s not enough to accommodate lots of large homesteads.  It’s also not enough to accommodate animal agriculture for the majority of humans.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 11:31am

    #52
    dzie44

    dzie44

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    Joined: Jul 30 2012

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    Lost in Suburbia

    I too live on a tiny plot, about .15 acres, in the suburbs.  My plot is heavily shaded which means I can't grow much, if anything, other than hostas.  But the trees keep the house ten degrees cooler in the summer.  I wouldn't want to cut them down just to have a garden...so I don't have one.  I would love to see a unit on what those of us who can't garden, can't have livestock etc. can do.  There are a lot of people in apartments who can't have more than a few pots of cherry tomatoes on their terraces.  Or are getting up there in age or lack the amazing skills that Chris has,  so hardcore homesteading just isn't going to happen, or can't leave for greener pastures for other reasons.  What advice for those of us who fall in that bracket?   No excuses here! Just explaining life as it is for many of us who wish we could do what Chris and some of you are doing but can't.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 12:19pm

    #53
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    Tiny homesteads rule!

    Kudos to you herewego. I'm not sure I can offer any solutions to your questions but you have the homesteading spirit that demands respect. Hats off. 🙂

     

    What advice for those of us who fall in that bracket?

    That is a very good question dzie44. It reminded me of a little place I had forgotten about. It was in the Chicago suburbs backed up to the Waterfall Glen forest preserve, no way to enlarge or go big. When I lived in the neighborhood I would run the trail though this preserve each weekend and every time I'd go by this little oasis. It was maybe half an acre or so. Simple but neat house. It had a couple apple trees and pear trees in the yard where each was open center pruned to keep them on the small side. A thicket of what looked like elderberries in the yard and the entire fence covered with grapevines. There was an herb garden along the walkway. It seemed like every place you looked there was something growing and making the place into an enviable little home.

    Mohammed: I was thinking more along the lines of the cul-de-sacs, in a policy sense that we are in... energy wise. And why I consider the teaching of energy concepts so important and why I am blessed to be able to do it.

    For instance: The entire concept of a fiat 'reserve currency' was to allow the US to purchase oil directly with the dollar which we controlled. This was in response to not only the inability to restrain spending but also because we had expended a large portion of our national oil reserves and needed to buy it elsewhere. But using the reserve currency politically ( a folly no nation could resist) was THE primary tool used to destroy our industrial base.

    How to back out of this w/o crashing the system? Damned if I know. I only know that Thermodynamics is at the heart of this issue and no amount of hard currency is going to solve it for us.

    Another example: Climate change. If this is a real thing, and I am inclined to think it is, then that is an energy problem that perhaps has no solution. But it makes teaching the way energy works (pun intended 🙂 ) a much needed endeavour. And it is another issue that hard currency cannot fix.

    But that is just my opinion. Again, I could be wrong.

    Will

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 12:32pm

    #54
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 621

    13

    Its OK if you cant homestead...

    As has been repeated exhaustingly; Not everyone can homestead to a level that somebody else can. We're all in agreement. However, each person CAN become more self reliant and strive to be more resilient.

    If I couldnt homestead to the level I am now, what would I do? I would find a skill or gain the means to produce something of value. I would also work to create a network of people with skills and resources that might help me.

    Not everyone can, should, or wants to be a small farmer. Nobody would suggest such a thing but thats not an excuse for you to do nothing. FIND small farmers and put yourself in a position to have something to offer.

    Im a very self reliant homesteader/farmer but there are still things I need and could use. I need a support system, especially if the SHTF. Are you a nurse? Me or my family will need medical attention at some point in our lives. Can you weld, tinker, build? I can use you, and you can use me. This is how societies work.

    So homesteading is not a thing where we close our gates and turn our back on the world. Its not a thing that if you cant do it you can't benefit or be part of it. If you can't homestead, support those that do. Right now many of us are producing alot of good things that the current centralized, mass produced market says have little value.

    Become part of the local support structure for farmers, homesteaders and other local businesses. Don't just dismiss it because you can't do it. There are either local solutions which are the result of individuals like our selves making choices...or there are massive global solutions made for you.

    I, personally, have had my fill of discussions about a gold backed currency...breaking up big tech....passing laws that limit the power of the people in charge, etc,etc. None of those things are going to happen. You have exactly ZERO power to effect any of those things and talking about them is a complete waste of time.

    If the state of the currency devaluation is troubling you why havent you tried to establish a barter network in your area? If you see big tech as a problem why are you still using Google products? Do you have a microsoft OS or have you switched to Linux? Worried about big Ag, are you buying at least a portion of your food from local producers? I know, I know "you dont understand Brushhog, not everybody can...."

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 1:17pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1437

    1

    Mr. Brushhog

    Yes there are many coping mechanisms. Which you choose depends on your situation. The point which you finally admitted is homesteading is not the panacea it is presented as here. That was my point.

    As for barter and local currencies they are legacy systems which work on an extremely small scale.

    As you have stated before you hate crypto currency and as a busy homesteader with more to do than time I can see why you have not taken the time to explore all that is happening in the Crypto space. There is an entire parallel financial and monetary system being developed. Ammous goes into far more detail than I will. Suffice it to say the sound money protocol of the future will be crypto.

    Boomers don't understand it and thus dismiss it. The people who understand it and will benefit are the younger generations. The monetary/financial system has virtually destroyed their future. They aint stupid. They know it was designed for boomers and not them. They know SS, and Medicare will not be around for them, even though they are paying for it. They are being crushed by student debt. They don't want any part of the legacy system. They don't want a piece of that toxic pie , they want to bake a new pie.

    The future is theirs and it is now.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 1:24pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1437

    1

    Hi Penguin

    Yes I understand the energy concepts you are talking about.

    They are part of the paradigm here. Got it. We are doomed. Oli will run out.

    Got it.

    I have a friend who is very much into fusion. Yeah I know it is always 30 years away. But China as with everything else is way ahead on that front. Fusion is much closer than most imagine. Of course the US is fat , dumb and happy and we just elected a president who thinks all China does is make shoes. Well that and provide billions for his son. Ah but I digress.

    I am not as pessimistic as most here. Sound money leads to very different decisions in regards to allocation

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 2:01pm

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 621

    6

    Nice try Mohammed

    "Yes there are many coping mechanisms. Which you choose depends on your situation. The point which you finally admitted is homesteading is not the panacea it is presented as here. That was my point."

    No Im not letting you slide on that one, buddy. LOL. We've been telling YOU that homesteading isnt for everybody but is still a worthy subject. Whether or not its for everybody isnt the point, thats what you've been told numerous times by numerous posters here.   Nor has anybody ever represented homesteading as a "panacea".

    A little more intellectual honesty would make these conversations alot more productive and interesting. Any how, happy holidays.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 3:45pm

    herewego

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 11 2010

    Posts: 178

    7

    Food production is not the only necessary skill.

    Hi Dzie,

    Before this 1/7 acre village homestead life, I was in a small condo in the middle of Vancouver.  After watching Chris' Crash Course, and also based on what I knew in my bones from an off-grid, homesteading childhood, I chose at age 50 to leave that completely unsustainable city life.  No regrets, though this has been very hard at times.

    If you can leave your current situation for one that does allow you to begin to support yourself with or without our unsustainable economy, I would do it now.  If you truly can't, then fast track building a skill set that makes you valuable.  Medicine, defense, the trades, leadership or good support of a good leader.  Get the tools, and stock the required materials.  I think being hapless (not saying you are 'cause I don't know that) won't be an option when the going gets rough.  We have some time now to re-tool our lives towards resilience.  If food production can't work, what could you bring that would make a farmer want to trade with you?

    Susan

     

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 4:24pm

    #59

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 407

    1

    In This Darkness Singing

    In This Darkness Singing

    Michael Meade - Mosaic Voices
    This is the recording of "In This Darkness Singing", Michael Meade's online solstice ritual that he lead on Dec. 20. The meaning of solstice is the “sun stands still.” At the darkest time of the year the pulse of life stops for a timeless moment before the light begins to return and the energy of the earth renews. Ancient people imagined that humans played a role in bringing the light back from the dark, for the human soul was also once known as the “light inside darkness.” At this time, the earth itself is threatened by the climate crisis, as the tragedy of the current pandemic also grows and many cultural troubles deepen the darkness in the world. Even as the Covid crisis keeps us physically apart, there may be no better time to join in the spirit of singing for the earth and bringing back the light. In facing the darkness together we rekindle the divine spark of life in each of our souls and we connect through song and prayer to the living heart of the Earth.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 4:42pm

    #60
    wstanhall

    wstanhall

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    Joined: Aug 14 2008

    Posts: 1

    0

    wstanhall said:

    Yes I agree on the ivermectin. Where do you find it?

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 5:00pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1437

    0

    Goodbye Mr. Brushhog

    I cannot type any slower for you to understand.

    Telling me I am intellectually dishonest is an ad hom and disqualifies you from continuing to dialog with me.

    Enjoy your life and the holidays

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 5:03pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    0

    Excellent 000

    We have had solstice gatherings here for a long time. What we do is drum the sun back.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 5:31pm

    Mots

    Mots

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    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 459

    8

    "homesteading isnt for everybody but is still a worthy subject..."

    BrushHog said "homesteading isnt for everybody but is still a worthy subject"
    You got that right.

    There is a popular expression where I live "ganbatte!" which means "do your best under the circumstances."

    I am not a homesteader but my wife is mailing out boxes of oranges from our favorite tree, which matures early and next month I will send out my lemons to some city dwellers.  I am still looking for the easiest way to harvest, store and prepare my own high energy snack food. olives, and finally figured out how to best store and use plums from our enormous tree. Mohammad. I am eager to hear of your recent exploits from your 4 acres.  Such wealth producing acts are most important to our peak prosperity and give us meaning to life and are minor acts in the homesteading game.  I applaud your good fortune in becoming rich by converting wealth produced by others into your personal possession due to your sagacious early understanding of cryptos in the bitcoin game.  But I also respect your ability to create your own wealth and am interested, and will learn from you in that endeavor (real wealth creation) as  well.

    That said, the superior use of bitcoin to facilitate real wealth creation is an extremely important topic that you have brought up. I am sure that we will hear some great stories but at present am not excited about boring stories of hiding wealth from evil governments and accumulating wealth from others by "buying low and selling high."  Homesteaders and wannabes already produce wealth outside of the reach of evil tax authorities.  We already have that covered.  I want to see new businesses start up that CREATE copious amounts of energy, food, water, clothing etc. due to the superior qualities of Bitcoin.  I hope that you can relate such stories which we can emulate.  Getting rich quick by giving money to unknown 3rd parties with the expectation that wealth will grow up thereby doesnt quite connect the dots for a superior life for me.  Maybe after each bitcoin is worth 2 million dollars things will settle down and we can get equity and fairness in wealth creation between individuals who exchange on a more level basis.  Maybe then bitcoin will encourage real wealth creation.

    We are not homesteaders here but do our best to become partially resilient. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step Mohammad and many do not complete the journey to homesteading.  But the journey itself is a goal.  So is becoming familiar with and working with bitcoin.  Presently I dont see bitcoin "changing" allocations facilitating the creation of more wealth in this world (motivate people to work hard for example) other than helping rich people who amassed much wealth hide it from others.

    At some point I hope that bicoin can facilitate real commerce in my community but am not holding my breath, as I see speculators dreaming about free shit for nothing as the main altered economic thinking and behavior from that good cryto currency.  Not sure how withdrawal from working to produce real wealth in favor of free shit for nothing instant millionaire!!!! is helping my society.  On the other hand you are right that bitcoin is perhaps the best tool for dealing with the financial collapse.

    My society has endured at least 7 or 8 financial collapses in its recorded history and many of us are waiting for the next, and will recover like we always do, by pulling together as a large family.  I wonder how bitcoin would help or interfere with our next collapse and recovery.  I would hate to see bitcoin used to create a new class structure of haves and have-nots but prefer to see very rich end up at the same place as the very poor.  If the same instant millionaire free shit for nothing minded bit coin holders end up on top after this collapse (the rich in America will use it this way......?) then bitcoin will be seen as an evil force in society.  Prove me wrong.

    My town produces much more food than it consumes yet no one here is a homesteader and almost everyone is producing something for consumption, especially those in their 80s as they pursue the homesteading game. Baby steps.

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  • Mon, Dec 21, 2020 - 8:11pm

    kdredske

    kdredske

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    Joined: Jan 27 2020

    Posts: 10

    3

    kdredske said:

    The Emergency Use Authorization that the pharmaceutical industry is looking for means that they cannot be held accountable for distributing the vaccine. This means that if you have a side effect you CANNOT sue the pharmaceutical manufacturer. Recognize that you also can't sue the government. And no doctor or pharmacy will give you a vaccine without you signing away liability for any possible side effects. This means that if you are vaccinated and happen to be one of the unlucky ones . . . you are stuck with paying the price. You can file your situation in the VAERS database at the CDC, but it doesn't guarantee you anything. You then have to have your case heard and judged to be damage from the vaccine to collect any money.

    All of that said, most people do not realize that ANYONE can file on VAERS that they or one of their family members has had a vaccine reaction. It doesn't have to be a doctor. That is why if you do not get a vaccine from your doctor where they have noted the manufacturer and the lot number in your record, you really need to be sure that you have that information from whoever gives it to you or your family member. You will need that for a case filed n VAERS.

    Here is a great article on the latest concerns with the new covid vaccines by the Childrens Defense Fund sponsored by Robert Kennedy, Jr.

    FDA Investigates Allergic Reactions to Pfizer COVID Vaccine After More Healthcare Workers Hospitalized • Children's Health Defense

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 5:21am

    bsf767

    bsf767

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 11 2010

    Posts: 1

    2

    EVMS links

    Chris has provided the link to the EVMS data here:

    https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/Marik-Covid-Protocol-Summary.pdf

    https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

    As far as ivermectin goes, I was able to pick some up at my local Tractor Supply in the Equine section...

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 7:10am

    #66

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    5

    Whats Your Pain Threshold?

    In the 5,500 page spending bill a provision will allow the Department of Homeland Security and the Labor Department,  at their description, the ability to increase foreign visa workers. This at a time when nearly 18 MILLION American workers struggle to put food on the table.





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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 8:49am

    #67

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    6

    We succeed together or we die together?

    Stimulus Bill - 30 Billion for tracking and tracing vaccine implementation.  And a minuscule $600 for the the hollowed out middle class.





    New motto - hey I am doing fine, I know, it sucks to be you!

     

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 8:49am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 407

    0

    000 said:

    In my imagination I see many of us on a pilgrimage to MA on some Solstice or Equinox to celebrate each other's humanity, warts'n all. And, yes, clean out the barn and feed the chickens, running around uncooked.

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 8:51am

    #69

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 407

    2

    Ignore at your own risk, resilient or not, land "owner" or not.





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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 9:09am

    #70
    Hans

    Hans

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 09 2017

    Posts: 138

    15

    Geert Mak: "Jorwerd" or "An island in time"

    One of my favorite books was written by Geert Mak. This book has also been translated into English and has the titles "Jorwerd" and later "An island in time". It tells the story of a small village, Jorwerd, in the north of the Netherlands, from the region where I grew up. So it was very recognizable to me, although most of it happened before my time.
    It shows how the countryside has changed since the 1950s and 1960s. Where everything took place for centuries around a few farms and life took place in small communities and villages. Each village had a grocery store, cafe and of course the church. Each had no profession, but was his profession. The baker, the policeman, the pastor, the farmer, the miller, the farmhand. This has remained unchanged for centuries. If you allowed someone to travel through time from the 16th to the 19th century, they would find more or less the same social connections. The clothes would have changed and some new inventions here and there, but that person would not have much trouble finding their way in that society of 3 centuries later.
    That has changed radically since 1950-1960. Agricultural companies scaled up and mechanized. Workers were no longer needed. Other activities in villages therefore also stopped. Villages overflowed or became sleepy residential areas. You weren't a baker, but you had a job in the bread factory. Shops disappeared and became supermarkets. The last that remained was the cafe and the church, which are now also closing.
    This has happened at an unbelievably rapid pace. That transition happened in 10 or 20 years.

    This transition not only led to an exodus of the villages. Loneliness, alienation, individualism, rejection of what is old, waste, gathering stuff, much, much stuff. It went with the same flow. This flow is not normal, although we are not used to it otherwise because a human life is too short to see such changes for ourselves. Our life is not going to change from normal to abnormal, but vice versa. That does not mean that we will go back in time and move around with a horse and carriage and that electricity will disappear. Technical progress has been made and that's a good thing.

    I really believe it is incredibly important to share. Without the intervention of money. Every person has something to share. It doesn't necessarily have to be food. The point is to rebuild a community and that is something that can start on a very small scale.

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 9:41am

    #71
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 608

    4

    Interesting & different kind of read from Pepe Escobar

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/behold-the-dawning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/

    Much to ponder in this article about how the stars are aligning and historical - future meanings. I do believe in astrological influences. My take is what is discussed lines up with the Fourth Turning predictions.

    To ignore building and/or enhancing personal and community resilience now is to ignore what I believe to be tangible, clear warning signs. When there is a megalomaniac like Klaus Schwab openly saying things like we must plan for cyber attacks, the likes of which will make the Covid crisis look like a walk in the park, it attracts my attention. Especially given the big wigs many 'table top' exercises that commonly and uncannily predate the calamities & disasters they are supposedly making mitigation plans for. I do not believe these things to be coincidental, in the least.

    So my perspective is there is a strong likelihood of coordinated cyber attacks and resultant grid down scenarios in the coming months, year or two at most. The big question is how long they will last. Days, weeks, months? How long will each of us be able to ride out such a scenario, were it to occur.

    Thinking about this, planning for such a thing does not mean having to succumb to fear or irrationality. It simply means being prepared for anything in ways that any given person's circumstances permit, as well as doubling down on emotional and spiritual resilience to supplement the physical preps. The latter will be useless without the former.

    I am no longer fearful of what the future may or may not bring. I have a quiet confidence that I have done all I possibly can to be ready for anything - based on so much of what I have learned here at PP. This in turn is allowing me to focus on all of the initiatives I have taken on within my circle of influence - all of which are geared towards building personal and community food security and resilience that is inclusive and accessible for everyone.

    While I do not like what I see as dystopian parts of the Great Reset agenda, I do like the concept they are calling 'build back better'. I am doing my part to help my community build back better so that we have foundational strengths that will help us to pick up the pieces and emerge stronger & better, in more inclusive & equitable ways, after the dust settles on whatever is going to unfold in this Fourth Turning. And I feel really good about that!

    Preparations for different scenarios are an insurance policy that enables us to keep on going about our lives. It is time and money well spent, bringing some level of peace of mind, no matter how the stars align and exert influence.

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 10:20am

    #72

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    12

    000 - not buying the “I Told You So”

    I am too old to believe that message!  How valuable will cryptocurrency be with no electrical grid?  Just as tulips were once wildly valuable and then they weren’t I believe Bitcoin and crypto currencies will be the same.  There is a scene in the movie “The Road” where the Dad finds gold coins and inspects them and then puts them back.  They weren’t edible.  I remember living without electricity after the 1964 Great Alaskan Earthquake, without power for weeks.  Bitcoin & cryptocurrencies would have been as valuable as the TV was.

    I do understand the excitement and the desire to win big.  Very much like a roulette table or a slot machine.  Many people are wired in such a way to be drawn toward that activity.  Some of us are not.  Some of us believe that if you can’t stand in front of something and protect it with a gun it ain’t yours.  And if you need an army to protect it, go to plan B or C.

    I told you so - how about pride cometh before a fall?

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 11:10am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 662

    5

    Deeply love your posts, @brushhog

    @brushhog,

    I deeply love your two posts: the one describing your life and the other your rotation plan. I resonate with the first - my only wish being that I had discovered how much I love the soil 30 years ago. But, hey, with good fortune I'll yet get 30 on the land, have my ashes added to the earth, and leave it all to my next generation. (The succession plan is already in place.)

    The "Norfolk 4-course rotation" is simplified genius! I'm eager to try it on one of my garden plots, where I'm starting the work of building soil out of clay.

    Thank you for both. Congratulations on a life being lived well.

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 11:12am

    #74
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 153

    2

    Question About Vaccine

    I remember back in the beginning of the pandemic that Chris reported on concerns about vaccines (tested in monkeys, if I remember correctly) where they did fine with the first contact with the virus, but then upon second contact their immune systems went lethally haywire. I am interested to know if this new mRNA technology poses any kind of similar risk? I realize it may be too early to know for this specific vaccine, but I am wondering about animal testing of this technology that may have happened previously.

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 12:02pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 727

    5

    Question About Vaccine

    yagasjai,

    You wrote:

    I remember back in the beginning of the pandemic that Chris reported on concerns about vaccines (tested in monkeys, if I remember correctly) where they did fine with the first contact with the virus, but then upon second contact their immune systems went lethally haywire.

    That was actually a study involving cats. The cats tolerated the vaccine well at first, but when the cats actually encountered the virus, there was a one hundred per cent death rate due to antibody-dependent amplification.

    I have been trying to find that study but I have so far not been able to locate it on the net.

    Here is a statement about it:

    • The formation of so-called “non-neutralizing antibodies” can lead to an exaggerated immune reaction, especially when the test person is confronted with the real, “wild” virus after vaccination. This so-called antibody-dependent amplification, ADE, has long been known from experiments with corona vaccines in cats, for example. In the course of these studies all cats that initially tolerated the vaccination well died after catching the wild virus.

     

    https://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2020/12/an-urgent-message-from-robert-fkennedy.html\

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 12:25pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 851

    1

    agitating prop said:

    It's like being stung by a wasp. The first time a person who goes on to develop an allergy is stung, there's a normal reaction. The immune system is over primed for the next attack and has an anaphylactic reaction upon second and subsequent exposures.

    This is just one of the things that alarms me about vaccines. The other is the rush to market, on many fronts. The lack of long term testing and also the manufacturing conditions in a rushed atmosphere. The FDA does not monitor properly because they have been captured by the corporations that make the vaccines.

    On his first afternoon at Merck’s Durham plant, Menachem’s concern deepened when his FDA supervisor belatedly emailed him a 19-page document, sent to the agency from a confidential informant at the facility. The allegations described a biohazard nightmare. Workers appeared to be defecating and urinating in their uniforms, and feces had been found smeared on the floor of the plant’s production area, the letter alleged. In a sterile manufacturing plant, bathroom breaks can be difficult to take because they require additional time, which could serve as one possible explanation for the events inside the Merck plant

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/12/fda-covid-vaccine-plant-inspectors

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  • Tue, Dec 22, 2020 - 11:59pm

    #77

    nickbert

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 291

    15

    Reframing "homesteading" as a mindset

    What Mohammed Mast said about homesteading is true, yet it felt incomplete. And I believe what's missing is this: "homesteading" is most useful when incorporated as a mindset, as compared to describing the nature of one's home. The principles of homesteading are not as much about stuff & land as it is the mindset & motivation to become more resilient & self-sufficient than before through the act of creation and stewardship.

    It's true that not everyone can afford 180 acres. But it leaves out the fact that only a relative minority even WANT to manage that much land, and even fewer are CAPABLE of using all of it. Chris looks to have a beautiful place with lots of land, and it sounds like that's right for him and his goals. But many of us, while appreciating how cool that is, don't yearn for that exact situation. And I'd bet Chris wouldn't advocate that same path for everyone else either (just assuming that's the reason why the t-shirts say "resilience" rather than "homestead" 😉 )

    For some, the path to homesteading is a small country house with a big garden on less than an acre. For others, it might be buying a condo or townhome in a small town, running a business from their home and making use of community gardens. And still others may not garden at all but instead have a normal house in the country with several extra acres of woodland that they rent out to campers, RV'ers, and others. And while our extended family collectively owns a modest-sized place in the country with a garden and small berry orchard, for me homesteading is actually more about using our apartment property as a home office to make an independent living mining, staking, & trading cryptocurrency, drawing my comics and publishing them on Hive, and working on my drones.

    Ultimately, it's not about where or how much land you have or being fully self-sufficient, it's about finding a way to make a place of any size a productive asset and becoming more self-sufficient than we would be without it. Maybe this is a better and more useful definition we all can agree on? 🙂

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 1:27am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 2

    5

    planfortomorrow said:

    Hey Granny, from your lips to God's ears. Seems God didn't get all the memo's and instead were sent to President Trump where he relayed a new message: $2000 for each individual and $4000 for a married couple. He wants the current Bill to be amended with changes and the cash to us hard working Folks may have a chance of being more realistic. Who can live on a one time check of $600 bucks, no one, it wouldn't cover a months utility bills. Honestly, I have no idea where these fools come from but collectively they serve themselves and certainly not the people. How in HELL did Trump lose this elections? It is pretty amazing and in my case I have no doubts that all the shenanigan's that can be done to elect anyone but Trump was a timely and controlled dump of votes in favor of Biden. I will honor that he is my president but we all know what happened here, at least those like myself who watch this election from start to finish. I was comfortable with Trumps lead and then the dumps started coming in and what the fuck!  Trump called all of this before the election and is right. My God, here in Detroit , Michigan they had more votes than registered voters!!! That's called a rigging and all votes should be voided. Just my 2,, we are losing our country and all that happens is shrugging shoulders. Me, I just want to disappear and head to our Cabin where I hope I'll get a couple days in it before someone comes to my door with their M-16 and tells me I got to go, then starts to eating my food I busted my ass to produce. Shameful but, we'll wait and see what the "Great Reset" intentions are really all about. I really hope I'm surprised and a great system appears that is equitable to all and we repair Mother Earth first and we change our ways. We have so totally screwed up every part of our environment, ecosystems and fisheries that we are in an emergency situation. Thing is we need science to really be the leaders now and they are failing us spectacularly. Fauci! Don't need to go there but...REALLY! I will aggressively and firmly apply for any job that is inclusive of all lands and waters being cleaned up and for heavy fines put on the future polluters. The fare way to punish is to give these people a punishment equal to the crime. Just make them pay their sentence working every weekend picking up garbage until the job gets done. No more plastic products that isn't biodegradable. We can change our packaging easily. This is a long comment, we all get the picture. Peace BOB

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 3:35am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 662

    11

    The bottom line is advancing anti-fragility

    @nickbert said

     ...for me homesteading is actually more about using our apartment property as a home office to make an independent living mining, staking, & trading cryptocurrency, drawing my comics and publishing them on Hive, and working on my drones.

    Ultimately, it's not about where or how much land you have or being fully self-sufficient, it's about finding a way to make a place of any size a productive asset and becoming more self-sufficient than we would be without it.

    Not quite what I can assent to embracing as a common definition of homesteading.

    The core issue, imo, is antifragile. Homesteading is in itself a great lifestyle, but done wisely it is also a key element of becoming antifragile. If done wrongly, even homesteading can increase fragility - for example, by having a mortgage for one's property that cannot be paid off at need; or, by depending on annual supplies of seeds from commercial seed sources; or, by not having an on-homestead means of maintaining and building soil health.

    Becoming antifragile is a process and involves strategizing. For example, debt = fragility. But in addressing debt one person may choose to keep a mortgage even though s/he could pay it off because the interest rate is so low that real inflation helps eliminate it, in order to use more capital for infrastructure development without depleting emergency funds. For another person, getting the mortgage paid off asap may be more important because s/he hasn't a bank account sufficient to safely settle the debt if required.

    Antifragile means different things to different people. I agree that for some people it can mean multiple streams of income, or securing rent of one kind or another from one's land rather than working it oneself. For me, that might be less fragile, but it's not antifragile. To be antifragile means, for me, that I can keep body and soul together without any recourse to the market economy, and without the use of power tools. I am fully engaged in using both to prepare the land-based infrastructure that enhances my ability to continue in the face of a complete economic meltdown and through market disruptions (recently stress-tested due to Covid lockdowns), but every improvement and addition I make has a common base criterion: that it contributes to surviving and thriving even if fuel, electricity, power tools, or the broader market economy become unavailable. To me that is homesteading as traditionally and popularly understood. Redefining the term might feel more inclusive, but it doesn't help clarify the intention contained in talk about the homesteading lifestyle. Rather, it can lead to self-delusion about one's preparedness.

    If the world we know ends, I will not be fully self-sufficient. I will be able to live comfortably on what we produce on-property, but I don't raise meat animals other than chickens and I thrive on periodic red meat better than completely off it. So, I source red meats locally, and I can hunt and trap if necessary. Meanwhile, I use local growers to supplement what I produce for myself. Local economies that can convert to trade, trust, and barter also contribute to antifragility and I have such relationships. Yet, over the coming years I will incorporate my own red meat production for the added security it will provide me.

    People living in most settings can improve their antifragility through versions of homesteading as long as they have some soil. The permaculture community has demonstrated ways to scale land-based antifragility from a tiny yard to a farm of many hundreds of acres, in climates from near-arctic to Jordanian desert. All that's required is to research permaculture projects for one's climate zone, and to imitate/adapt existing successful projects.

    In addition to soil, time is needed. Being able to deploy significant money cuts time significantly. But labor can substitute for money, it's just slower; people of modest means need to get started asap. I also think it makes great sense for people of modest means to pool resources on a common undertaking. It's not easy; as Chris has noted, some people don't fit the needs and mix - therefore dating is always good before getting hitched. That also takes time, and should involve working on projects together, and talking about visions and interests while working side by side.

    I'm less sanguine about apartment and condo dwelling. Especially in highly urban areas. The absolute reliance upon public services (water, power, sewage) coupled to the lack of food production area could not allow me to feel anything but quite fragile, no matter how many streams of income I had. There are interim strategies that can work in such a setting, but nothing that I can imagine that is really reliable for the next decade, let alone for my benchmark "100 year solution" metric.

    I think our entire American lifestyle is fragile, and a lot of it is increasingly so. I don't trust that the services many rely upon, and are even dependent upon, will continue over time. This spring's Covid-inspired supply disturbances confirmed me in my distrust. The anti-police sentiment that's taken hold in some cities supports my distrust. The macro economic debt-maximizing, fiat-currency vector we're on underscores and writes to me in bold letters that distrust is the smart perspective, as do the political shenanigans of health and welfare bureaucracies. I don't pretend I can foresee everything that could happen - some of which might deprive me of my antifragile set-up - but I don't see any reason to have any long-term expectation that public services and infrastructure will do a better job - or even an equal job - in securing my future and my grandchildren's future than what I establish for myself on my own land, and pass on to them.

    My homestead is a place that can sustain me and my descendants through long periods of instability and disruption. It is a steading on which can be maintained a multi-generational family home. It's no mistake that steading means steady, and that steady state means to endure with unchanging fundamentals for long periods of time, even under stress.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 7:01am

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 788

    0

    will they take your stuff by force

    I just want to disappear and head to our Cabin where I hope I'll get a couple days in it before someone comes to my door with their M-16 and tells me I got to go, then starts to eating my food I busted my ass to produce.

    Maybe, but you have the intellectual and experiential capital to produce more food.  That kind of capital isn't something you can easily steal with a gun.  With your cultural, social and, especially spiritual capital, you have the resources to take a good shot at forming a partnership instead, i.e., recruiting the recruiting the first member of the militia to defend your budding independent community.

    Of course, there are no guarantees.  They might not have the ability to cooperate and might just take by force regardless of their ability to keep your homestead running in the future.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 7:03am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1437

    1

    I Told You So Granny

    You are as old as you choose to be. If you are too old that is your choice.

    It is also your choice to remain ignorant of the most revolutionary development of this century and more revolutionary than the internet, which yoou don't seem too old to avail yourself of.  My My whatever would a Granny do if there is no electrical grid and no internet?

    What Granny may be too old to think about is if the electric grid goes down BTC will be the least of everyone's problems  Think Mad Max.

    But of course this sort of sentiment gets good air play here on PP where most have no idea what BTC or Crypto in general is capable of and look forward to the day when we will all live like Amish.

    GOT AMMO?

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 7:22am

    #82
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1437

    1

    Hi Mots

    Well I doubt you will hear much of what I do on my 4 acres.  Been doing this shit for almost 50 years not interested in beating my chest.

    I promote BTC and crypto in general because it is sound money. I thought people here at PP were interested in sound money. Well I apparently am quite mistaken. People here are in love with complaining about the fiat money system and thus would hate to see it go. Therefore any attempt to replace it will be met by ignorant scepticism .

    I get all of that. I also get your thinly veiled contempt for all thing crypto.

    Once again if one does not know anything about a subject then to comment might seem a little ludicrous to one who does. So once again even though no one reads books anymore and certainly it would be a rare person here at PP to read anything about BTC, I will offer once again the excellent book the the Austrian economist Safieden Ammous (who would make an absolutely sterling candidate for a podcast guest) "The Bitcoin Standard" . Ironically the book deals mostly with the history of money.

    Everyone hates the legacy system but refuse to let go of it. Reminds me of the Stockholm Syndrome.

    Good luck living on an island

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 8:23am

    #83
    Hans

    Hans

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 09 2017

    Posts: 138

    10

    making choices

    I don't own cryptos. Not because of ignorance but because I made other choices. Years ago I started investing in PMs. It made me deel good to see my stack grow. Now I stopped investing in PMs because I put my savings in developing my small piece of land. Our house already has solar, rainwater collection, etcetera. For me, now this is the best thing to develop my 750 square meters. I have been searching for a small property that I could afford. Without any success until recently.

    It is all about choices. Which ones depend on so many things. Personal preferences, but also the chances people get. I did not have a lot of money when I started buying silver. I am site I would have made other choices if I was able to buy some land, back then.

    Let's be nice to eachother and let's help eachother to go through the rough times that are ahead of is, instead of wasting energy in discussing which method is best.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 8:46am

    #84

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    5

    Oh my, someone’s cranky☹️

    I Told You So Granny

    “It is also your choice to remain ignorant of the most revolutionary development of this century and more revolutionary than the internet, which yoou don't seem too old to avail yourself of.  My My whatever would a Granny do if there is no electrical grid and no internet?”

    Well Mohammed there you go again calling me ignorant!  Odd how I do not specifically target you with attacks on your character.  But after years of such reactions to my posts I no longer take them personally or count on there being any moderator involvement.

    And just for your information, Granny would survive just fine with no electrical grid.

    ”What Granny may be too old to think about is if the electric grid goes down BTC will be the least of everyone's problems  Think Mad Max.”

    Yep, and spending more time learning skills and less time obsessing over something you cant hold in your hand makes perfect sense to me.

    “GOT AMMO?“

    An Alaskan gal can never have enough Ammo!

    Gosh Mohammed, I think you are even more of a cranky curmudgeon than I am.  Are any of your posts kind, complementary or positive?

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

     

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 8:52am

    ReginaF

    ReginaF

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 16 2009

    Posts: 7

    7

    For Hans: Gardening on less than 1.000 square meters

    Dear Hans,

    best greetings from a gardener with 1.000 qm in northern Germany! I grew up in the 1950 in a settlement for part-time farmers for german refugees, who were former farmers or farm hand from the all in the east, Ukraine as well as Russia, Hungary, Romania and the eastern german provinces. All the plots had no more than 1.200 qm with originally very poor and sandy soil. The often big families with sometimes 4 grandparents and the children grew all their vegetables and a big part of the potatoes there. Chicken, Ducks, Rabbits and 2 hogs were very common. 3-4 apple trees, berry bushes and minimum 1 cherry tree and 1 plum tree were on the ground.

    With your 700 qm it seems more than possible, that you can grow most of your diet there. Are you originally from the Netherlands? If yes, could you read german language? (I myself could read in dutch - but did'nt understand much of the spoken language) There is a very practical book from the beginning of the 1900 that I like very much. Here it comes:
    Arthur Janson: Auf 300 qm Gemüseland den Bedarf eines ganzen Haushalts ziehen. Anleitung zum Gemüsebau des kleinen Mannes und zur Bewirtschaftung von Schreber- und Kleingärten aller Art.
    You can purchase it at the kopp verlag for under 14 €.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 9:08am

    #86

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    6

    Plantfortomorrow

    Hi Bob, thanks for your excellent response.  We have frequented this site for about 10 years now and the world is crazier than ever.  Glad you are active again.  My best to Barb and wish you and the rest of PP readers (including Mohammed) a relaxing and enjoyable Christmas.

    “Me, I just want to disappear and head to our Cabin where I hope I'll get a couple days in it before someone comes to my door with their M-16 and tells me I got to go, then starts to eating my food I busted my ass to produce.“

    I am with you, that’s why I have a plan B and a plan C.  And it gives me satisfaction to know that my efforts will feed someone.  My foot steps on this earth will not be in vain and though the future may not be what I expect, through faith in God, my effort will be a serendipity for that special someone.

    Best wishes and enjoy the journey.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 9:19am

    dzie44

    dzie44

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2012

    Posts: 9

    2

    dzie44 said:

    Thank you for your response.  I'm on the list to get a plot at our community garden so I can at least learn a little bit about growing vegetables (reading up on gardening in small spaces as well).  I also am a beginner beekeeper and can delve into that more (two hives now).  My only other skill is being a great vegan/vegetarian cook, if I do say so myself.   Oh and I'm applying for my gun license (I took an intro course) and will need more practice with that.  Any other ideas are welcome, as I can't really leave suburbia right now.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 10:35am

    #88
    BeeFarmer

    BeeFarmer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 43

    11

    Bee keeping

    we've been on our small farmable land now for 10 years. It took ten years to find this property at a price we could afford. Patience is worth it. And hard work 😆. We use NO chemicals, pesticides etc.,  we try to keep everything here what we call a “closed loop”.  It’s taken awhile to find a balance, but think we have achieved it. We have Irish dexter cows, meat rabbits (THE BEST), chickens, meat chickens, guard dog, vegetable gardens, fruit trees, berries, medical plants, and most importantly are our hives. I breed queens using Grafting and instrumental Insemination.  We are as sustainable as I can get us right now.

    I highly recommend bees. If you can’t keep them on your property, see if a local farmer will. I’m working on my Master Beekeeper through a University, and also teach classes. I am more than Happy to help any PP folks!

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 1:25pm

    Hans

    Hans

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 09 2017

    Posts: 138

    2

    @ReginaF

    Hi Regina,

    Indeed, I am from The Netherlands, but live in Belgium for quite some years. Do you live in Ost Friesland or more in the region of Rūgen?

    I have ordered the book you recommended. I think I will use Google translate a lot 😊. What interests me in it, is the fact that it is written in 1900. Old knowledge...

    My idea is to use the land from a permaculture perspective and try to build a small ecosystem where everything alive will thrive. I hope the book will help me with some old and maybe forgotten techniques. Thank you for your remarks and hint.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 1:42pm

    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 459

    3

    The bottom line is advancing anti-fragility

    yes VT

    Definition of Resilience: an ability to recover from or adjust easily to misfortune or change

    This is what we mean by our efforts towards homesteading.

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 3:26pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1437

    0

    Hi Granny

    There you go again playing the victim. For somebody who says you don't take it personally you sure do a lot.

    First of all here is a definition of ignorance "lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing." That my dear young lady has zero, zip nada nothing to do with character. It may surprise you to hear me admit i am ignorant of 99.999999% of the knowledge of the planet. This prevents me from posting about things I know zip, nada, zero, nothing about.

    It is quite clear you are completely ignorant of BTC and crypto in general. The unfortunate aspect of that circumstance is it does not prevent you from commenting about it.

    As for moderation, well I guess that is something you would know more about than me since you have been banned. I do not engage in ad homs. That is clearly your projection. I also post a great deal of information which is actionable by anyone who cares to take the time to look at it.

    I suggest you refrain from projecting your stuff onto me. Your comments about me have nothing to do with the facts I post.

    But do have a good holiday and pray the electric grid and the internet don't go down.

    PS. BTW I am not cranky at all. Once again that is your projection. You give yourself far to much credit if you think you have any capability for causing me to be cranky. I am actually quite blissful at the moment and finding great humor once again reading your comments. Thanks for the laughs

     

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 3:37pm

    Thors Hammer

    Thors Hammer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 68

    7

    The logic of hommesteading

    The notion that homesteading requires 180 acres and three mules is  a concept left over from the last century.  4500 sq ft will comfortably provide for the food needs of the standard American 2 kid + parents family when supplemented with an occasional deer-pest or four legged garbage disposal unit. Or far better, a half dozen families working together to share the labor and capital costs of a larger urban farm. The basic technology has been used by subsistence farmers in S Asia for many generations.  Start with a farm pond that adjoins the pig pen. Their manure will soon create a rich soup covered with duckweed.  The tilapia stocked in the pond will grow fat on their favorite food-  that same duckweed that serves to cleanse the pond of the toxic chemicals pumped into the environment by "progress."

    The modern expression of the pig pond is called aquaponics.  It uses low flow pumping to distribute the fish waste to the root systems of your tomatoes and leafy greens.  The earth sheltered greenhouse catches a large portion of its heating from the sun and stores it in the building's mass and the large volume of water in the fish tanks  An acquaponics system is a solar machine, and like any artificial or natural machine it must operate within an engineered or evolved balance of energy.  But once balance is achieved it can produce sufficient plant fiber and fish protein to keep a family healthy in a space about the size of a typical suburban back yard.

    Sustainable suburban homesteading requires at least the rudiments of a functioning society---  a reliable energy  grid and distribution system, private or public transportation that moves faster and eats less grass than a horse, and a functioning system of laws and public safety.  But a post-collapse society built upon 40 acres and a mule requires the same.

    We already have the foundation technology for a highly redundant, long term sustainable distributed energy system.  Its called the LFTR  (liquid fluoride thorium reactor)  but we (or actually our Malignant Overlords) have chosen to ignore it in favor of building thousands of bombs that are so dangerous that they never can be used.

    The technical aspects of urban homesteading are simple.  But what is inconceivable is the idea of six American neighbor families actually working together to produce their own food.  The first thing that would happen is that a budding capitalist would see a potential for profit in the system, bribe the local authorities to make it illegal, buy the equipment at fire sale prices, move production to a low wage dependent colony, and export the profits to the Cayman islands.

     

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  • Wed, Dec 23, 2020 - 4:29pm

    #93

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    2

    Mohammed, wouldn’t an ignore or block button be nice🤓

    “I am actually quite blissful at the moment and finding great humor once again reading your comments. Thanks for the laughs.”

    Ah yet another dig - I am sure no matter what I post there will be a reason to either criticize or laugh.

    “There you go again playing the victim. For somebody who says you don't take it personally you sure do a lot.”

    Again, you are mistaken.  Pointing out when someone, in this case you,  is unkind or disrespectful does not make me a victim rather it simply lets you know I am aware of your actions, and your lack of civility, both of which are not appreciated.  Awareness does not make me a victim.

    And, it would have been the kind thing to do to explain that by suggesting I am ignorant you meant no offense.  But, yet again another dig to explain that I am clueless about the definition of ignorant.  The intention in this case was very much intended to offend.

    “I suggest you refrain from projecting your stuff onto me. Your comments about me have nothing to do with the facts I post.“

    Actually I did not start this exchange you did by being condescending and insulting.  Projecting my stuff on you, WTF is that?  My comments about you have nothing to do with the facts you post. What?? That makes no sense.

    “But do have a good holiday and pray the electric grid and the internet don't go down.”

    For further information along that line I suggest you investigate Dr. Peter Pry.  Chris did an excellent interview with Dr. Pry and Ambassador James Woolsey (former CIA Director) regarding the electrical grid risks.





    AKGrannyWGrit

     

     

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  • Thu, Dec 24, 2020 - 7:50am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 407

    1

    000 said:

    anyone who's HODL'd BTC for more than a year has absolutely no excuse for being cranky! XRP hodlers on the other hand are holding bags of vapor, or so it may turn out to be, curtesy of the SEC noticing an exit scam when they see one, or did they?

    This kind of reminds me of the Start Trek Next Gen episode where the holodeck character of Dr Moriarity seems to have come to life beyond the holodeck. Beware or digital projections with jokes about digital projects.

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  • Thu, Dec 24, 2020 - 8:02am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 407

    2

    000 said:

    Gerrymandering Victory! Ax the Max!


    Skip to 06:00 min if rushed.
    “The purpose of gerrymandering is it torpedoes a competitive democracy.”--Ralph Nader

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  • Thu, Dec 24, 2020 - 2:49pm

    Kiwi Voice

    Kiwi Voice

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2020

    Posts: 3

    7

    Kiwi Voice said:

    Yes I agree that about 700 m2 should be enough for creating your own resilient patch. I own a 900 m2 property in New Zealand with a little 90 m2 wooden bungalow on it. My wife and I have been developing our little slice of paradise for 5 years now. We have planted a number of fruit trees, apple,pear, mandarins, fejoia and peach and created a 50 m2 veggie garden. Also planted blueberry and raspberry bushes to cater for all nutritional needs.

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  • Fri, Dec 25, 2020 - 8:49am

    #97

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2534

    3

    People are REALLY angry about the election fraud

    I’m guessing this won’t REALLY get rolling until after Biden/Harris are anointed by the Electoral College vote on January 6. That ought to be fun. 😳

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-massive-explosion-downtown-nashville-christmas-morning-possible-car-bomb-video/

    https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2020/12/23/baltimore-explosion-bge-building-10-injured-21-rescued-partial-roof-collapse-latest/

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  • Fri, Dec 25, 2020 - 10:23am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 662

    1

    What's the connection?

    Tom, I'm not sure how these are linked to anger about the election. One appears to be a boiler/gas explosion. The other has no info about who might be the perpetrator. Do you have other info?

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  • Fri, Dec 25, 2020 - 11:16am

    #99

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2534

    4

    Whodunnit

    One news report has already stated natural gas was NOT involved in Bodymore, Murderland (per the gas company itself). I don’t have any inside information but I’ve been watching the inter webs and been expecting serious blowback to get started. Serious. Blowback. If this isn’t election-related I’ll be shocked. I’ll be even more shocked if it doesn’t accelerate and intensify once there’s no hope the election fraud can be corrected (January 6 and 20 are the big dates). These two are mere warmups for what’s coming.

    The only way to have prevented what’s coming would have been for the Dems to have enthusiastically joined the Reps in serious investigations of the fraud. They did the opposite. In fact they predicted this scenario before the election (a Harris/Biden win days after it looked like Trump would win) and that it would end in disaster.

    I’m keeping an open mind as to whether the Dems actually WANT the right to go berserk. It sure would fulfill their “dark winter” prophecies and give them permission to purge the right in extra-Constitutional ways. If so, they have badly miscalculated they’d win such an effort.

    Nearly everybody I mention Civil War 2.0 to Pooh Pooh’s the idea. You know: Bosnia X Rwanda on steroids. Stand by on that. I think we’re just getting warmed up.

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  • Sat, Dec 26, 2020 - 7:17am

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    1

    Guess Who?

    Guess who is a

    • former lawyer for Microsoft
    • Was in charge of the United States EMP threat for the past few years
    • Was in charge of US cybersecurity for the last few years
    • Hmmm why should that make you NOT feel warm and secure

    https://youtu.be/K4Zir8bDOM8

    The most urgent threat facing us today.

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  • Sat, Dec 26, 2020 - 8:20am

    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2020

    Posts: 42

    2

    Cj Sloane said:

    "

    I did the math.  Unless I screwed something up, there are 0.44 acres of arable land on the planet per human.  That’s not enough to accommodate lots of large homesteads.  It’s also not enough to accommodate animal agriculture for the majority of humans."

    You actually don't need arable land to raise most livestock. If you choose both the animal and fodder wisely.

    Mulberry is a great tree which can feed humans and livestock and doesn't need arable land. Keep 'em coppiced and feed the leaves to your ruminants. Let some grow tall to harvest the mast.

    My plan this year is to plant about 100 mulberry, hazelnuts, and apples.

    Check out the 1929 classic Tree Crops: a Permanent Agriculture.

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  • Sat, Dec 26, 2020 - 9:11am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 662

    7

    Quite right you are, CJ Sloane

    CJ Sloane said:

    You actually don't need arable land to raise most livestock. If you choose both the animal and fodder wisely.

    Yep. And, too, we can reclaim a lot of desert and near desert through soil farming. Soil farming needs animals; animals we can eat. It's been demonstrated in most all climates - I suspect you know but many don't - and even in the Jordanian desert where water is at a premium and the desert soil salty.

    Also, farming the soil in the world's remaining breadbaskets, to improve fertility while harvesting crops, is a sure way to get larger crops and more nutrient dense crops year over year. This, too, is demonstrated.

    One advantage of nutrient dense crops, vs. today's commercially produced and nutrient-deficient foodstuffs, is that we can eat less and be better fed: more mouths fed per acre of more abundantly produced food. Including animals.

    Get the Western world off of carbohydrates as a primary energy source and back onto fats and we'll cure a lot of modern illnesses, too. Get suburban dwellers into their back yard gardens to both harvest produce and get the gentle consistent exercise human bodies thrive on, and health will go up while food consumption will go down, since we better metabolize what we eat when we're moving much more than we're sitting.

    It's no mystery, is it? There's just a lot of people who know things that aren't true.

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  • Sat, Dec 26, 2020 - 9:31am

    Cj Sloane

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    Cj Sloane said:

    Agree 100% especially about fat v carbs. Funny how concerns about monetary policy have led to so many people homesteading and going low carb!

    PS Does the VT stand for Vermont? I've been living here off grid since '92.

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  • Sat, Dec 26, 2020 - 12:23pm

    VTGothic

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    About that VT, CJ...

    Yep, in VT. Howdy neighbor. I'm 2 stones throw from Calvin Coolidge's burial plot. Not off-grid, but we can be if circumstances make it necessary.

    All but dumped carbs 9 years ago. Cleared out my joint aches and incipient hand arthritis, cleared my brain fog, increased my vitality, and I dropped 30-odd pounds without trying. Oh, and (impossible as they say it is), over the last 2 years I've been gaining a range of color vision denied me by lifelong red-green colorblindness. So, something's going on in the rods and cones of my eyes, too.

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  • Wed, Jan 20, 2021 - 6:30pm

    cgarcia

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    Salted meat currency

    Time to learn to salt meat?

    It could well be the ultimate barter currency.

    You can't remain healthy on a vegan diet alone. You need animal foods.

    Salted meat needs no refrigeration.

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  • Wed, Jan 20, 2021 - 6:39pm

    Belmontl

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    Vegan/Vegetarian 30 years

    ...hmmm ... 62 years old --- been Vegan/Vegetarian for 32 years .... Teloyears test .... had me biological at 39 years old..... think of the diets of the biggest animals on earth ... any "healthy" diet life style works ... must be some reason/logic that Americans spend the most on "Health" care (almost 18% of our GDP ... more then Germany's Entire Economy).. with the worse health outcomes ...with 42% Obesity ....

     

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  • Wed, Jan 20, 2021 - 8:05pm

    Bobo

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    Vegan/Vegetarian 30 years

    Can you share from which plants you getting the following nutrients or you take a jar of pills every day?
    Vitamin B12, Creatine, Carnosine, Vitamin D3, Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), Heme iron, Taurine
    Regards,

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  • Wed, Jan 20, 2021 - 8:33pm

    ao

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    cgarcia, i have to disagree

    Did you watch The Game Changers documentary for example?





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ove9b16OeR4

    Perhaps try reading this book.

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  • Wed, Jan 20, 2021 - 11:29pm

    XZBD2

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    Bobo. sources of nutrients for Vegans

    This is going to be a bit long sorry.  I can't answer for anyone else so I hope others will respond and while the vast majority of what I've eaten for ~ 30+ years has been vegan, I'm not one to turn down elk, venison, eggs, even beef obtained locally from a neighbor on the rare occasions I get so lucky.  I personally find it a better to use of my time to ride the farm animals (horses) rather then eat them, but certainly understand the import in having them in the nutrient cycle.

    So lets go through your list one at a time

    B12 sources for a Vegan

    1) If you have a "proper" functioning small intestine you may harbor B12 producing bacteria and thus indirectly produce your own.  This likely requires that your mother had them and passed them on to you, they didn't get eliminated by the antibiotics including glyphosate you've ingested over your life time and that you consistently eat far more fiber to keep them fed than the modern human typically does.   I don't count on this though would be interesting to know if they are there.

    Poop is another great source of these bacteria and rather than eating it directly I preferred to feed it to plants and then eat them.

    "Since plant roots were recently shown to be able to absorb B1 and B12, it was thus suspected that organic fertilizers (such as manure of diverse sources or sewage sludges which often contain relatively high concentrations of several vitamins) introduce additional vitamins into the soil which in turn leads to increased vitamins in the plants. This possibility was studied by measuring the B12 content in the seeds of soybean and barley and in the leaves of spinach plants grown in soils amended with pure B12 or cow dung (which is naturally rich in B12). The addition of pure B12 or cow dung did not alter the B12content in the soybean seeds but significantly increased that in the barley kernels and in the spinach leaves."  Much more can be found in the sources for this article (https://medium.com/four-pursuits-ventures/rich-plant-sources-of-b12-busting-the-myths-380a9ac53b28)

    Creatine:  Well it turns out most people can synthesize sufficient creatine and supplements don't show any benefit for the average person.  Of course there are people with differing abilities in their pathways and demands so your results may vary.  Here is a source (https://veganhealth.org/creatine/) again you can follow its sources for more info.

    Carnosine:  "Human liver and kidney make carnitine from lysine and methionine, two amino acids that you derive from protein intake. Other nutrients are required, including iron, and vitamins C, B-3 and B-6, according to Oregon State University. If you have normal liver and kidney functions and balanced nutrition, you most likely will not develop carnitine deficiency."  Source (https://www.livestrong.com/article/420041-do-vegans-need-carnitine/).   Again results may very based on your genetic make up and environment like alcohol consumption.

    D3:  Living in the Pacific Northwest, if we hadn't destroyed the salmon runs I would certainly put on 20 lbs of fat in fall from gorging on salmon then as I fasted over the winter and lost all that fat, the D3 from the salmon that was stored in that fat would be released, but as  the only way to restore those salmon runs is to repair the rivers and stop overfishing, I resort to taking D3 that is likely sourced from the lanolin that is a byproduct of wool production and not strictly vegan, though I suspect you could produce your own D3 from any fury animal by washing the oils out of their fur and putting it in the sun to convert to D3, though purify the resulting concoction sufficiently to consume might be a challenge.  For most of the months out of the year I'm out working in the garden so sunshine is my source.

    DHA:  Now my friends would argue that by the way my brain is functioning I'm obviously not getting enough DHA and I won't argue with that.  It seems that we can synthesize DHA in sufficient amounts though I know that is hotly debated.  Here is one possible indication that it is possible: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163782715000223

    Heme iron:  Ok you won't like this result so sorry ahead of time; (https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-safety-of-heme-vs-non-heme-iron/)

    Finally if that last one didn't stop you and you are still with me Taurine:  Well Taurine is a major component of bile, which is stimulated by fat intake, though if your aren't consuming lots of glyphosate your body, while it prefers Taurine, can use glycine as a substitute here.  Unless you are a Cat your body can synthesize the Taurine it needs from methionine & cysteine assuming  sufficient B6.  Now there is a lot of hype around Taurine as an energy enhancer and its ability to be degraded by the intestinal bacterium Bilophila wadsworthia to produce hydrogen sulfide, which in low levels is beneficial, but in high levels can lead to a leaky gut so I would be cautious about supplementing with high levels especially if on a high fat diet.

     "Increased hydrogen sulfide production is thought to be associated with higher permeability of the intestinal barrier, higher susceptibility to infections and colon cancer. Moreover, Bilophila wadsworthia can act as a pathogen, for example in appendicitis. The results were published in the current issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."

    There are many more references to add, but it has gotten too late so this will have to do for now.

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  • Thu, Jan 21, 2021 - 7:51am

    Quercus bicolor

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    synthesis

    Diet and health is a very complex topic.  I think we need to consider the following:

    1. Genetic diversity between individuals and, especially between populations have a big impact on the value we derive from different foods.  Populations can and have adapted partly or mostly to new diets over perhaps 10-100 generations.
    2. Old methods of growing/raising plants/animals and older varieties/breeds are much more nutritious.  Modern foods are grown for productivity (including strong response to fertilizers and pesticides), uniformity and ability to be shipped far or stored long.  The result is nutrient depleted and toxin contaminated foods.  The old methods and varieties result in nutrient dense, much less toxic food.  For this reason, most population based food research needs to be taken with a grain of salt as everyone in both groups of the study was eating modern, mass-produced food.
    3. Processing and preparation is also important:  Our ancestors developed methods to improve storage, increase digestibility, and increase nutrient density of many foods.  Fermentation and soaking were key methods.  This is especially important for grains, legumes and seeds and some vegetables and even meats.  Modern processing and preparation methods, especially for grains, legumes and seeds do not remove the enzyme inhibitors and other components that help seeds stay dormant until conditions are favorable.  This greatly reduces digestibility and can be a source of long-term stress on the digestive tract.
    4. Seasonality matters.  Local, fresh or properly stored and processed foods are most available and nutritious at certain times of year.
    5. Hard and fast rules are probably detrimental (i.e. strict vegan, no carbs ever, etc.). If you've ever examined a deer carcass in the winter woods, you will literally find that most mammals and many birds are nibbling on it.  This includes the carnivores you'd expect, rodents, and rabbits.  The possible exception is the deer themselves and other ruminants.  But off course, they carry around a specialized microscopic animal farming operation in their guts.  The bats and shrews also, but their order isn't called insectivora or nothing. That's pretty much all they eat.
    6. Most of us have a history of eating a less-than-ideal diet.  This likely caused some damage to our digestive tract.  Improving our diet can lead to partial and perhaps nearly complete repair.  The diet for repair might be different from the optimal diet if we are already healthy.
    7. Dietary needs vary over our lifetime depending on our health, activity, level of stress, etc.

    All of these interact in complex ways.  I think it is safe to say that there is no one best way to eat certainly between populations and individuals with different genetics.  It is also likely true that most single individuals has at least a couple of dietary options that will provide excellent health.

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  • Thu, Jan 21, 2021 - 9:48am

    Bobo

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    XZBD2...sources of nutrients for Vegans

    I stopped reading after:

    "vast majority of what I've eaten for ~ 30+ years has been vegan, I'm not one to turn down elk, venison, eggs, even beef obtained locally from a neighbor on the rare occasions"

    You might have to check your definition of Vegan.

    "If you have a "proper" functioning small intestine you may harbor B12 producing bacteria and thus indirectly produce your own"

    I don't even know how to respond to this....I guess I didn't reach the evolutionary level of having the digestive system of a cow. (also there is almost no bacteria in the small intestine of a healthy human)

    I rest my case.....wish you all the best, I'm out of this thread.

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  • Thu, Jan 21, 2021 - 10:04pm

    ao

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    Bobo, just some pertinent points about vitamin B12

    Vitamin B12 is found in bacteria that attach themselves to the roots of plants.  So the ingestion of root crops will typically involve the ingestion of some soil particles as well with those particles containing vitamin B12.  If you look closely at carrots, beets, turnips, etc., they generally have micro-crevices and sometimes macro-cracks where some soil can remain after a quick washing.  You'll also note that many dark green leafy crops also need to be washed many times to get all the soil out so a superficial washing will leave some soil particles and hence, some vitamin B12.

    Hydrochloric acid in the stomach is required to convert pepsinogen to pepsin which cleaves B12 from the protein it is commonly bound to.  This is one reason (but not the only reason) why the elderly have a more difficult time absorbing vitamin B12.  Stomach acidity typically declines with age.  Plus, the liver stores quite a bit of vitamin B12 for quite a long period of time so a steady dietary intake is not necessarily required, even though it's a water soluble vitamin.

    https://www.ebmconsult.com/articles/vitamin-b12-absorption-mechanism-intestine-intrinsic-factor

    In addition, certain algae such as chlorella, can be used as a plant based dietary source of B12.  

    Personally, I "cheat" in two areas because of my cancer.  I ingest a teaspoon of cod liver oil for DHA and EPA (because too much ALA can cause problems with prostate cancer and the conversion process is less efficient at my age) and I ingest a couple of dessicated liver tablets for B12 (because, other than octopus, it's one of the most concentrated sources of natural vitamin B12).  Both of these supplements are from very pristine sources.  It's also interesting to note that, in a study of several thousand Boston school children done decades ago, NONE of them were getting optimal levels of DHA in their diet, despite consuming animal products.  i used to cite this paper when I taught but do not have immediate access to it to give you the exact reference, so my apologies.  It was the reason, however, why I always gave my children cod liver oil and perhaps one reason why both excelled in school and have high IQs.    

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  • Fri, Jan 22, 2021 - 8:38am

    Bobo

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    just some pertinent points about vitamin B12

    I don't disagree that there is some pathway of getting B12 from bacteria in plants but is it bioavailable(absorption) Do I have the necessary chemical factory of enzymes to do so, Do you? Do I know if I have the optimal level of B12 for my body, Do you?
    Of course our bodies can convert and make some stuff but there is price for that. Doing so is very expensive process for the body and there is always a limit of how much can be made/converted. And then there is the source, I really doubt we going to find any B12 bacteria in carrots from Shoprite  :-)​
    I have absolutely nothing against any diet (personal choice) but user:XZBD2 claims to be vegan who eats elk,eggs,beef,salmon every now and then. (nothing wrong with that)
    I've seen first hand people close to me destroying their health and lives going vegan for the wrong reasons and reading misleading information on the web. There is a difference between vegan and mostly plant based diet. Can vegan diet be healthy, sure if one knows what they're doing. Is it good for everyone, not sure.
    You're not cheating taking cod liver oil and giving it to your children, you're doing the right thing! By the way best source of DHA&EPA (bioavailable) is in caviar if you can afford it (I can't)  :-)​
    I do understand the moral dilemma of eating animal products and why some folks see cruelty in this but one look at the food chain on this planet one has to realize that there is no live without dead.
    All of the above is personal opinion.......

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