What gets me is that the entire healthcare reform thing isn't about health care at all, its about how to pay for it.....another direct consequence of having a debt money system.  There will always be a shortage of money.

Excellent post Cloudfire.  This is one I printed out.  Last night I had a 1 1/2 hour late night phone discussion with the person who was my primary mentor.  He is highly intelligent but even more importantly, he is probably one of the wisest human beings I've ever met.  I've always had the greatest respect for his opinions and insights.  In the course of our talk about events going on in the world at large, however, I was told that my statements amd attitude were "negative" and "depressing" and I was buying into and propagating conspiracy theories (which, of course, because they are conspiracy theories, must be untrue) ... all of which, if I consider it objectively, is true ... BUT I'm certainly not going to deny the facts and what is occurring.  What truly shocked me was his statement that, even if what I was saying was true, what would I or what would we, the public, be able to do about it.  He dismissed the issues as worldly whereas his concerns are more spiritual.  Needless to say, I was flabbergasted.  I could go on and on but this article will provide me with some valuable information to further educate him about what is happening.  Thanks for all your work.  It is greatly appreciated.

Tying that parable back to the original topic..

Perhaps some of the foolish virgins were too distracted by paranoia, fear and idle speculation to waste time on mundane things like oil...

If you want to obsess over the dark arts of propaganda and manipulation, google Bernays, Chomsky, and Cialdini.. for starters.

Personally I view it as a monumental excercise in futility... and not germane to the purpose of this particular site.

I'm with you.  Your analogy is very close to one that I gave him in response to that statement about worldly vs. spiritual.  He seemed increasingly more receptive the more information I provided him with but there was still scepticism.  Also, he's already fairly well positioned to handle what's coming so he doesn't have the same degree of concern most individuals would.

Plato,

You're certainly entitled to your views. But I wonder what your reasoning is.

I have to assume most people who visit this site with any regularity do so because they no longer have confidence in the mainstream media. You don't think it's significant that the media completely ignores peak oil? You don't find it curious that they completely missed the economic meltdown, while bloggers like Chris Martenson, who predicted it accurately and well in advance, can be found all over the net? And you don't think it's significant that a recurring theme in so many of Chris's blogs concerns his constant struggle to decipher the disinformation put out by Wall Street and the government - "fuzzy numbers" as he calls it in the Crash Course? ... Some of us do. That's all. 

To be sure, I wasn't completely impressed with Mr Sweeny's article - some of it seemed a little obvious, and some of it seemed so broad as to potentially ensnare any of us, definitely including me! But here's something I liked a lot:

We are all just here just seeking the truth. Why does that bother you?

Peace

Greg

Plato

There's certainly a good deal of wisdom in this post. But what you might want to keep in mind is that the paradigm that works best for you - and which certainly makes sense - may not be for everyone. Some people need to go down the rabbit hole. And I'm glad they do. I think it's sad that we live in a world so rife with corruption and deception that there are almost no limits to what we can contemplate. And so I mock no one for their fears, even if they may seem irrational at times. Nor do I mock those who others derisively refer to as the "sheeple." Education isn't supposed to be indoctrination. We should be able to trust our government and the media. I don't blame the people, The world isn't supposed to be like this.

You ask, "isn't it better to share solutions and strategies than fears?" And I agree. It's just that it didn't seem like your earlier post was doing that. Instead you seemed to be mocking Cloudfire and the forum, which I don't think serves any constructive purpose. I happen to think exploring the dark side is important - we need to know what we're up against - but you're right, we need to be careful we don't allow it to consume us. So thanks for your thoughtful response. Those of us with more deeply cynical views certainly can always benefit from a little perspective.

Peace

Greg

Cloudfire

I think you probably know, I've got no problems with anything you're doing here. I fully support ALL your explorations. I'm probably a little less conspiratorial (if that's a word) than you are, but on the issue of shutting down these kinds of discussions, I'm firmly in the camp of people like you, DrKirbyLuv, and Strabes. In fact I think all the tension about this subject a while back, discouraged me from visiting the site much for a while - which is ironic, since I remember imploring Strabes not to let that happen to him!

I agree,  but I'm pretty sure I'm a good example of it! 

Of course, in retrospect we always know more and see a more complete picture, but being mindful of history and context can sometimes go a long way towards the same thing. I was once on a very active thread where everyone was getting increasingly hysterical about the Patriot Act, FISA and so on, when some guy who was way ahead of the rest of us came on and just rattled of a list of historical constitutional abuses that made Bush suddenly look average. It went something like this: Jackson told the Supreme Court to go screw themselves - Lincoln suspended habeas  corpus - Wilson jailed the war protesters and muzzled the press with the Sedition Act of 1918 - FDR confiscated the peoples gold, interred the Japanese(Americans), and threatened to stack the court -  And these were supposed to be some of our best presidents! I found it oddly comforting. And that was the end of the thread.

Here's another related post I put up today you might find interesting. http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/bankers-own-you/31192?page=1 (#19) My best effort to put an Alex Jones rant in "perspective." 

Peace 

Greg

cloud: +1000 on the alex jones scepticism.... with you totally on that one. And well described....

pied piper of  nihilism...

Almost certainly sincere.. nobody is that good at acting.....

but misguided.. and misguiding millions..

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...

Because he never examines his basic premises....

premise numero uno -   TPTB are evil...   I'd imagine they are something like us, if more jaded and strategic...

possibly even more idealistic ... but still fallible... hey,  who isn't..

Once you insert a lie as a foundational axiom..

no matter how logical and meticulous you are.. you end up describing a warped space.

cf  Lobachevskian geometry vs Euclidean...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_geometry