Suicide as economy tanks

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RubberRims's picture
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Suicide as economy tanks

 http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus24-2008dec24,1,2577716.column 

Does the news only touches the outer rim of the problem. I am extremely sad about how our money issues have Brocken people. In despair people are taking an option to salvation no one should have to consider. This system we all live our daily lives by, is it capitalism by its very nature undoing the fabric of society. Take a look at the other articles I have linked below, and please spare a thought for some who have lost all hope this Christmas.

How Mr Madoff this one man can so callously destroy the lives of so-many and still be allowed outside the confinement of a cell? Adding insult to injury, is the fact that Madoff is spending his days in his luxury penthouse apartment in Manhattan under house arrest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1099171/HSBC-banker-hanged-belt-5-star-London-hotel-committing-suicide.html

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=30&art_id=76187&sid=22003904&con_type=1

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/world/north-america/1bn-victim-of-madoff-scam-commits-suicide-in-ny-14120189.html

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20081225/NEWS/812250326

 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

RubberRims wrote:

 How Mr Madoff this one man can so callously destroy the lives of so-many and still be allowed outside the confinement of a cell? Adding insult to injury, is the fact that Madoff is spending his days in his luxury penthouse apartment in Manhattan under house arrest.

I have the same wonderings.  Everybody picked up with an ounce of pot that can't make bail is sitting in a cell...and this man sits at his home after destroying the lives of many.  Initially, after his arrest, he only had a "curfew".  It was only after several days and some protest that he was confined to his luxury condominium.

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Re: Two sets of books

Every time an elected official stands before you and tells you the government is out of money and they have to raise taxes, he or she is lying through their teeth

The Biggest Game InTown" about the Government CAFR wealth shell game

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6703413885850200097&hl=en 

This video was originally produced on January 8, 2000 by Walter Burien.

The government, at all levels, is running a very simple financial con game.

If something produces revenue - like bridges, highways, ports, or successful investments etc - that revenue goes into off budget slush funds.

If it costs money, it's charged to the public via taxes.

This is being done at all levels of government - including state, county, city, and school districts.

The total "off budget" funds held by the various governments amount to trillions of dollars.

The real accounting is contained in what's called Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports (CAFR) which are not only not made available to the public, their very existence is never mentioned by the news media.
Why?

Trillions of dollars pays for a lot of corruption.

 

 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

I work in foreclosures and I found a dead man who hung himself in the closet several weeks ago.  I'll spare you the details, but I definetly have scene more transients in houses in the last 30 days then I have scene in the past 12 months.  I have a few more concerns now about my safety then I did in the past.   A few more signs to me of what going on in the street.

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Re: Two sets of books

Taxation Statistics > Total tax wedge > Single worker (most recent) by country

Everyone aways complains about taxes, yest as can be seen here, taxation in the US is far lower than a lot oc other countries.  If the US stopped squandering so much money (debt) on their armed forces in a vain attempt to be the world's policeman, we would all be better off!

One thing that caught my notice.....  Grance is rated fifth, but are reknowned for having the world's best AND FREE health service. 

I don't have a problem with taxes, only how they are spent unsustainably.

Mike 

Showing latest available data.

Rank   Countries  Amount 
(top to bottom)
#1   Belgium: 55.6%   
#2   Hungary: 52.6%   
#3   Germany: 50.7%   
#4   Sweden: 48.6%   
#5   France: 48.3%   
#6   Italy: 46.2%   
#7   Finland: 45.9%   
#8   Austria: 44.7%   
#9   Denmark: 44.2%   
#10   Turkey: 43.2%   
#11   Czech Republic: 43%   
#12   Poland: 42.9%   
#13   Netherlands: 42.3%   
#14   Slovakia: 42%   
#15   Spain: 37.9%   
#16   Norway: 37%   
#17   Greece: 36%   
#18   Luxembourg: 33.9%   
#19   Portugal: 32.5%   
#20   Canada: 30.2%   
#21   United States: 30%   
#22   United Kingdom: 29.7%   
#23   Switzerland: 29.5%   
#24   Ireland: 25.8%   
#25   Iceland: 25.7%   
#26   Japan: 24.2%   
#27   Australia: 23.1%   
#28   New Zealand: 19.6%   
#29   Mexico: 15.6%   
  Weighted average: 37.3%    
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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Being totally pragmatic here......  the world is overpulated.  Grossly overpopulated in fact.  I believe that before this century is out, world population will be at or below three billion.

Suicide is one way to achieve this.  I believe that once people realise they have been conned big time, and that they have neither skills nor resources to survive the coming food and energy crisis, a large proportion of society will resort to suicide as a way out.  And of course in your country which is armed to the teeth, people will be shooting each other in the street....

On a totally different note (and it might even get removed?) I recently found this which brought a smile to the dial...  taken at a protest when this entire bullshit started.

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Damnthematrix wrote:

Being totally pragmatic here......  the world is overpulated.  Grossly overpopulated in fact.  I believe that before this century is out, world population will be at or below three billion.

That's really looking far down the road, Matrix. Do you have a crystal ball that you haven't told us about?  Wink  Unless you can get China and India to cut their birth rates way down, I doubt the world population will be as low as you hope.

Damnthematrix wrote:

Suicide is one way to achieve this.  I believe that once people realise they have been conned big time, and that they have neither skills nor resources to survive the coming food and energy crisis, a large proportion of society will resort to suicide as a way out.  And of course in your country which is armed to the teeth, people will be shooting each other in the street....

Matrix, old chap, I do believe that you have seen too many American movies or TV shows. Contrary to your perception, we don't have nearly the violence across this country as you seem to think. Needless to say, our media (and yours I suspect) hyper-ventilates every time something unusual happens somewhere in the country.

Recently, the Portland, Oregon metro area got an unusual amount of snow - snowiest December since record keeping started in the 1940's I'm told. Well, you would think the world was coming to an end. Surprised

One TV station went on 24-hour storm coverage! The "Arctic Blast" they called it. All regular programming (including national news shows) was pre-empted so that they could constantly make the rounds every 10-minutes of their poor reporters standing in the snow giving us the latest picture of a stuck car or a snow-swept street. In spite of numerous protests from their viewers to cease and desist, they continued this insanity for days!

Remember, we are a nation of over 300 million so we are bound to have a few crazies running around here and there. However, most of us live life's of "quiet desperation" worrying about jobs, food, rent/house payment and how we're going to pay for the next extra-large television set to come down the pike (<grin>).(ok - so I exaggerated that last one)

Bottom line, most of us will quietly cope as our fore-fathers did in the last Great Depression. I seriously doubt you'll be reading of cowboy-style shoot-outs in the street any time soon. That was so last century!  Tongue out

Sam....

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

I am generally a conservative writer. However when you look at events unfolding around you, they generally or sometimes make a manifestation be it an interpretation in the mind. What is fact from fiction and would you be able to determine the truth behind a well publicised lie?

Is it just coincidence for those who took their lives? Are these Just ordinary bankers in-broiled in the Madoff Scandal? These individuals had families and lives to live. My assessment and just from reading a small amount about these individuals gives me reason to think! Whoever conspires to play with vast amounts of wealth generally has an agenda beyond just the normal assertion for greed.

By the very fact Mr Madoff is still under house arrest leaves a gaping..? May be we are not seeing a complete and accurate picture with regards to a 50billion smoke screen. I'll keep whistling Dixie.    

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Hi Sam,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.....  it forced me to do my own research (see above) which reveals some EXTRAORDINARY data!  You'd have to be pretty stupid to live in Sth Africa and Colombia by the look of those figures!  But who would have thought Thailand would come out third worst....

Anyhow, the USA still runs 7th closely behind your southern neighbour.  Australia running 14th also surprises me, I can't remember last time we had a gun related homicide, down here it's the cops who kill (knife wielding) people, especially in Victoria......  Of course, the numbers are per head of population, and the US being the third most populous nation on Earth, it means that there ARE a lot of gun homicides in the US.

Regarding my crystal ball, what I can see when I look in it is FAMINE.  Already global food shortages are predicted for NEXT YEAR......  You talk of China, but in an article I posted on a thread I started (and which only got one comment last time I looked http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/blog-population-jonathon-porritt/10185 ) Jonathon Porritt claims that China's population policy has emabled it to reduce its population growth by a whopping 300 million, or an entire US of A......  so I wouldn't get too excited about THEIR growth, they are pulling their weight somewhat.

China does however have a HUGE food problem.  Until recently it was 100% food self sufficient, but no more......  with their growing affluence and hunger for unsustainable meat consumption, they now import a lot of food.  They also lose squillions of top soil every day, and it's only a matter of time (I think) before there are food riots in China.... 

 Don't know about India...

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Is it just me, or am I the only one finding difficulty in understanding RubberRims' posts?

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Matrix,

That is an interesting chart.  The US seems to always get the rap as the gunslingers.  Even though there is no way to know, it would be interesting to see the figures for number of guns owned per capita for the same countries.  I bet the US is even farther down the list when comparing crime with gun figures using number of guns owned.

That being said, I remember sitting in gas lines in the 70's.  I would put my money on those lines being more "lead filled" if they were happening today.

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Re: Two sets of books

RubberRims wrote:

This video was originally produced on January 8, 2000 by Walter Burien.  

He paid for doing that video .. LINK

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Damnthematrix wrote:

Hi Sam,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.....  it forced me to do my own research (see above) which reveals some EXTRAORDINARY data!  You'd have to be pretty stupid to live in Sth Africa and Colombia by the look of those figures!  But who would have thought Thailand would come out third worst....

Matrix,

Personally, I think we're both looking at the same situation but through different glasses, as it were. What the statistics show is indeed an unacceptable level of gun violence overall. What the statistics don't show is that a preponderance of this violence takes place in certain cities and then only in certain neighborhoods within those cities.

As an extreme example, you will notice that you don't hear about many shootings taking place in Beverly Hills but you can be sure that there are some Los Angeles neighborhoods where it is a nightly occurrence. Thus, statistically, the city of Los Angeles would appear to be a dangerous place to visit, let alone live. However, you will find that the majority of L.A. neighborhoods are pleasant areas with very little crime overall and certainly not a daily serving of gun violence.

This same concept can be extrapolated to major cities all over the globe - even in your own country. Most of us live fairly normal lives without fearing for them on a daily basis. I don't discount the fact that random violence can strike any one of us at any time, but most violence in the U.S. is gang-related, drug-related, and/or the killer and victim know each other.

That said, you can be sure that you'll be in no danger if you ever decide to come visit us up here in the Northwest!  Wink

To keep this from being too wordy, I'll address your FAMINE issue in a separate reply.

Sam....

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Damnthematrix wrote:

Regarding my crystal ball, what I can see when I look in it is FAMINE.  Already global food shortages are predicted for NEXT YEAR......

Sad to say, your crystal ball is correct when it comes to food shortages. More disgusting to say, a lot of it is caused by human stupidity. Case in point - Zimbabwe. Formerly a food exporter - now they can't even feed their own people. Too many other countries around the world are in the same leaky boat. From my perspective, the amount of farmable land worldwide using American farming techniques and modern technology would provide sufficient food for all if the distribution system could be worked out. Again, it is due to man that much of the free world's largess does not reach the average person due to higher-level scumbags.(Those last two sentences are poorly strung together, but I hope you get the gist.)

Damnthematrix wrote:

You talk of China, but in an article I posted on a thread I started (and which only got one comment last time I looked http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/blog-population-jonathon-porritt/10185 ) Jonathon Porritt claims that China's population policy has emabled it to reduce its population growth by a whopping 300 million, or an entire US of A......  so I wouldn't get too excited about THEIR growth, they are pulling their weight somewhat.

China does however have a HUGE food problem.  Until recently it was 100% food self sufficient, but no more......  with their growing affluence and hunger for unsustainable meat consumption, they now import a lot of food.  They also lose squillions of top soil every day, and it's only a matter of time (I think) before there are food riots in China.... 

Don't know about India...

I took a look at that article you posted (blog-population-jonathon-porritt) although to be honest, I didn't read the whole thing as it was quite long. However, along with the still lone reply, I got the gist of the population problem. I'm in full agreement that the earth has only a finite capacity for humans. Sad to say, some day this will begin to be rectified when we start killing each other off in large quantities - either through nuclear or biological warfare. I hope I've already "checked-out" before that occurs.

China's ability to reduce its population by "1 America" is all well and good, but since they already have over a billion people, they will need to reduce their population much further to have a serious impact. Same situation with India.

Part of the sustainability problem is due to the massive amounts of people that congregate in one area. When you have millions of people in one city - think New York, Beijing, Mexico City, Tokyo, et al, you are bound to have problems. This earth might be better able to sustain its current billions if they could somehow be dispersed across all the open land in the world. I know, I know - what am I smoking, right? ;-)

I will be following the news with interest as the new year dawns to see if your predictions come true sooner than later. In which case, I might hop a plane to Australia and see if you have a spare room you might want to rent out! Laughing

Sam....

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Sam wrote: "From my perspective, the amount of farmable land worldwide using
American farming techniques and modern technology would provide
sufficient food for all if the distribution system could be worked out."

The trouble is Sam, those techniques will be seriously tested as soon as oil production starts declining, and natural gas supplies collapse, particularly in Nth America which is in deep trouble here....  Could very easily be as early as NEXT YEAR.

Also, the amount of farmable land is fast declining.....  I could google it to find out exactly how much, but the evidence is everywhere, anyone who does not believe me can do their own research, I'm tired and it's dinner time here in Australia!

I believe that every two pound loaf of bread costs ten pounds of topsoil (or thereabouts).  Just how long does anyone think this can continue?

Yes, of course, farming practices will change, in fact they must change, but just like energy supplies switching, land use is also limited by time, scaleability, and cost.  Here, we are BUILDING soil, but we've been at it for five years, and whilst we can see progress, we're not out of the woods if we want to be self sifficient (Australia has some of world's poorest soils).

We might be able to 'take our time' with soil building, but will six billion hungry people feel the same way?

Distribution, BTW, is easily resolved by relocalising farming.... and all you city slickers, well you'll have to move soon!

Mike 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Getting back to the first post about suicide, it's worth remembering
that suicide rates were lower in the 1930s Depression I than they are
now. In fact, many in the pre-Boomer generation described the 1930s as
the happiest time of their lives. Despite the material deprivations,
families and communities hung together with a sense of common purpose.

To
me, a recession is like New Year -- a time to take stock, and make some
new resolutions. Unlike other phases of the economic cycle, in which
it's hard to know exactly where you are, recession is a time of great
clarity. Those who can start a new business, career or life path during
a recession usually find that the subsequent economic recovery provides
a nice tailwind to reinforce their new venture.

As the saying goes, a recession is a terrible thing to waste. Cool

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Below is an extract from Reuters, Sunday 28th http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4BR10E20081228

"The failure of British governments in previous downturns was to succumb to political expediency and to cut back investment across the board, thereby stunting our ability to grow and strangling hope during the upturn," he will say."This will not happen on my watch. (The threat that will come of doing too little is greater than the threat of attempting too much). We will direct the next stage of our strategy at creating jobs and making the investments our economy needs."

 The plagiarized speech

If I ever sore the global propaganda machine in action, this piece of news rings allarm bells. The policies being spouted within the media have been synchronistic throughout the Weston world, it all began following the events of 9/11. It is as if each world government are in parallel quoting extracts from the same script. I have now read countless news articles from, Australia, America, Canada and the UK. They are absolute, almost word for word alike, yet do they have a base consistent with a script? This is becoming frustrating the rhetoric of our times, or am I just seeing things with a warped sense of the macabre. I know my posts are highlighting general issues people would be hard pushed to speak about. Yet I cannot pull away from the affirmations be presented in every day life as a crisis.    

For those who may not know the full meaning of the word Macabre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macabre  

You may have seen this video, it is from around 2005.

It is worth looking at.

(The threat that will come of doing too little is greater than the threat of attempting too much) This is an oxymoron, and to an intelligent person a discrasfull and hopless message to be put in to print. It is like saying, I know the real reasons yet you would not understand.  

Marc Faber

 

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Re: India

The poor of India live at starvation level. There is a lot of debt slavery, a lot which has to do with financing necessary religious rites, the most costly of which are for maturing daughters. So a lop-sided method of birth control has developed: the abortion of female fetuses. This really took off when tests determining the sex of the baby during pregnancy became accessible and one figure I remember from a doco I saw in class was only 1 male was aborted out of 500. (Doco was probably 10 years or more old.) It does sound hideously sexist on the part of the parents but it's not necessarily the case. The fate of a female born into poverty in India is considered far too cruel for the above cultural reasons as well as material ones. Few parents are willing to condemn their own daughters to a life of such misery. 

If poverty gets worse in India I think it's fair to say that there will be even fewer baby girls born there as well as well as in some other Asian countries where there is already an acknowledged shortage of females. My thinking is that if females come to be in such short supply that they can use this fact to increase their personal power to the point of equal respect with males, then voluntary preventative birth control will also follow at rates more like to those seen in western countries. This is because equality of power for women translates into power over their own bodies and futures which in turn leads to chosing sex for pleasure and intimacy and less so for fullfilling the mother role. The role of the mother in Indian society, as stiffling as it may be to western eyes however, is a formidable cultural force with thousands of years of religious belief behind it.

On a happier note for India, she was slow jumping on the globalisation bandwagon so the decent is unlikely to be as rough on them as it will be for the citizens of countries at the core. 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Nope.

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

machinehead wrote:

Getting back to the first post about suicide, it's worth remembering
that suicide rates were lower in the 1930s Depression I than they are
now. In fact, many in the pre-Boomer generation described the 1930s as
the happiest time of their lives. Despite the material deprivations,
families and communities hung together with a sense of common purpose.

This is what I'm hoping for. The early 1990s were the most fun I've ever had but they ruined my career prospects. It's when we're all desparate and down on our luck that we realise we need each other and stop being so self absorbed and status conscious and frankly, a pack of little bitches.

OTOH I'm mentally preparing for the Apolcalypse because so many other people believe in it I reckon it has the power to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

machinehead wrote:

I'm mentally preparing for the Apolcalypse because so many other people believe in it I reckon it has the power to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

Ask your self a question, If the hole world is to become a collective unified market as we know it to be. Then one simple fact has come to be true, the world is not a happy place at this moment in time. I wish this madness were not happening. I also need to know the bare truth behind this boom and bust cycle. History generally teaches us all we need to know, yet like past recessions this monetary system is not learning from it's past mistakes.

If life is just a gamble and in many respects it is, if so then financial advisers and stock brokers are the croupiers of a financial casino, and I am certainly not in this game to loose my life's savings because of a financial system managed by crooks and a syndicate, namely the Bank of England and the Fed.   

We know the monetary playing field is not a just place. But when goverments start to defraud people and the banking regulators who were at liberty to stop this three years ago did nothing becouse banks had the power to ask them to mind there own business. We have now found ourselves asking some very undesirable questions about the people who govern our independence.

These institutions have to be incompetent, incapable of assessing the needs of the working classes, but most of all, this is all to real to keep out of sight. If we do not take action will American Foreign Policy bring about another world war? How about the vast amounts of tax money being spent on the War machine. Where is the balance beyond the tipping point.

I hope this puts your quote in perspective. As I to would rather be enjoying life, unfortunately some say the good times are over. Until we overcome the greed of this totalitarian system masquerading as a democracy for the foreseeable future I think we are all on the road to  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdition and I am an atheist by choice.

 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

RubberRims wrote:
the world is not a happy place at this moment in time.

On
average, perhaps not. But, as in any other time, there are people
enmeshed in tragedy, others having the time of their lives, and most
just plodding along in quiet desperation.

Mass media is a mirror
which tells people what they want to hear. A year ago, the mass media
told us we could aspire to a glorious life of materialism in a glowing
McMansion. Now they're singing the weepy tune that we'd just as well
slit our wrists in the basement before the sheriff shows up for the
foreclosure sale. Both of these scenarios are unrealistic extremes.

The
coming inflationary recovery will generate a 'live for the moment'
ethos, and there definitely will be some spectacular parties and sweet
sirens. However, those who keep their wits about them may be able to
emerge on the other side of the cycle with more than just hazy memories
of a good time. Stick to what's important, and ignore all the extraneous noise.

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

 

Your right! always view the glass as being half full, better the eternal optimist than a pessimist... However Something is different this time. Perhaps It is the Internet, it has pushed the envelope of consciousness to a catalist of reactions. The world and it's thoughts in parallel at the point of transcription.

Small occurrences significantly affecting the outcomes of seemingly unrelated events. Like Kayos Theory, the money system is subject to every thing we do.

Extraneous noise? its infectious. I might bury my head in the sand and hope for the best. Cool

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1529573111 

 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

RubberRims wrote:

If life is just a gamble and in many respects it is, if so then financial advisers and stock brokers are the croupiers of a financial casino, and I am certainly not in this game to loose my life's savings because of a financial system managed by crooks and a syndicate, namely the Bank of England and the Fed.   

The Crisis of Common Sense: Is It So Difficult To Understand The Financial Crisis?
by Matthias Chang

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11575 

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

Unrest around the world as the global economy deteriorates. 

Iceland is embroiled in protests

Iclelands political leaders forced from the airwaves by angry citizens
Political Unrest on Rise in China
China's leadership is coming under pressure as factories close and job losses begin to mount

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184614595?bctid=6260448001

I would like to know what is happening in the US if anything? UK media is choosing not to report many issues.

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Re: Suicide as economy tanks

German Billionaire Adolf Merckle Commits Suicide

January 6th, 2009

Via: Reuters:

German billionaire Adolf Merckle, assailed by financial turmoil and struggling to salvage his business empire, has killed himself, his family said on Tuesday.

“The desperate situation of his companies caused by the financial crisis, the uncertainties of the last few weeks and his powerlessness to act, have broken the passionate family entrepreneur and he took his own life,” a family statement said.

Prosecutors in the southern German town of Ulm, near Merckle’s home, said the 74-year-old died when a train struck him late on Monday. There was no sign anyone else was involved, they said.

Merckle was ranked as the world’s 94th richest person in 2008 according to Forbes magazine and his family controls a number of German companies including cement maker HeidelbergCement and generic drug company Ratiopharm, but its empire was rocked last year by wrong-way bets made on shares in carmaker Volkswagen.

Banking sources had told Reuters the family lost hundreds of millions of euros on investments, with losses of about 400 million euros ($539.4 million) on Volkswagen shares alone.

RubberRims's picture
RubberRims
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 22 2008
Posts: 145
Re: Suicide as economy tanks

A sad state of of mind or money? Reality bytes, why define your world by material wealth...?

In the beginning of our construction to trade goods and services things could not have been more simple. The world today has made the minds of indulgent people think only in one direction. If you have educated your ability to think money is the be all and end all of life, I personally have little sympathy for you.

The creation of happiness is a state of mind, yet it amuses me how few people cant get a grasp of this fact.  

It is the most iconic image of the 1929 Wall Street Crash: financiers, having lost their fortunes, jumping to their deaths from the windows of skyscrapers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7912056.stm 

The financial crisis is taking its toll on the world's richest people, wiping 332 names off Forbes magazine's "rich list" of world billionaires.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7938227.stm

Both article's are pages apart yet should they be on the same page?

jneo's picture
jneo
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 7 2009
Posts: 742
Re: Suicide as economy tanks
 
Another example of what a monetary system produces.  So sad.  Root of all Evil? 

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