Preventive Dental Care

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1215's picture
1215
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Preventive Dental Care

I am truly baffled by those against fluoridation and wonder exactly how they intend to deal with a return of a rapid increase in decay if it ceases. Those fortunate enough to have genetic resistance or immaculate home care may scoff, but when tshtf and diets worsen with increased stress and lack of adequate preventive care, are you going to find a dentist when you need one or would you be better off using all tools available to prevent the disease?  I've seen threads based on wild, paranoid delusions and fear mongering, but critical analysis (requires reading and logical thinking) suggests to me that fluoridated water has been among the top three health improvement public benefits of the last century.

"Along with vaccination, control of infectious diseases, and motor vehicle safety, adding fluoride to US drinking water is considered one of the greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. Fluoride was first added to water in 1945, a measure that was followed by a dramatic 50%-70% decline in the incidence of decayed, missing, or filled teeth . . ."

See Medscape article, Fluoride Supplementation: The Ongoing Debate, by Diane L. Markowitz, DMD, PhD

eexpo's picture
eexpo
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water fluoridation

I believe the case for water fluoridation is pretty solid. My concern is if the city water is not being monitored due to 'collapse ' just who is going to add the proper dose of fluoride to the polluted system ?

ao's picture
ao
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protect your precious bodily fluids

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_toxicity

Here's the real authoritative source:

Why next, the dental profession will be telling us mercury is good for us.

MarkM's picture
MarkM
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Maybe...

Maybe we should consider re-examining our dietary choices. Nah, I'd rather poison the water supply.

Add it to the list of poisons we are subjected to daily and ponder why we have all the health issues we do.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
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Fluoridation not necessary

Why put fluoride in the water when toothpaste is full of it?  Drinking fluoride doesn't do a thing for your teeth when as a society hardly anyone drinks water anyway, all too occupied drinking soda pops and fruit juice which ALL rot your teeth...... and bottled water isn't fluoridated either.

If you want to look after your teeth...:

a) stop drinking sugary drinks, especially Coca/Pepsi Cola which are full of acids that destroy enamel and sugar that assist bacterial growth
b) clean teeth regularly with fluoride toothpaste after every meal
c) floss regularly
d) quit all sweets.... but I draw the line at chocolate

Just common sense really.....  I refuse to drink and even shower in chlorinated water... let alone fluoridated.

Mike
 

1215's picture
1215
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dietary choices

Mark,

I agree with you 100% that we as a society should improve our dietary choices for many reasons, including reducing decay.

But seriously, are you kidding?

People as a whole, and most of us individually (including myself) are lazy and will usually take the easy way. If you can you truthfully answer yes to these questions, then I would guess you are in the top 2% of Americans:

--have you flossed in the last 24 hours? at least 3x in the last 5 days?

-exercised for 30 minutes in the last 24 hours? at least 3x in the last week?

-kept your carbohydrate intake  under 100 grams/day for any of the last several days?

-not had any carbonated beverage intake or nicotine use in the last month?

Another point that few decline to consider since it involves serious thought:

have you taken an aspirin or tylenol recently? Did you consider it a poison? Did you realize that they are lethal at high doses? Does that make them a poison?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin_poisoning

the same is true for coumadin, generic warfarin, which was developed as a rat poison and is now a life saving drug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

have you had a sip of water today? careful, too much can be lethal:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1770067/

The list goes on and on and on--almost everything we ingest can be lethal in high doses, but most are proven beneficial in low doses.

So I challenge you you to tell me how you differentiate one item as a poison and another not, except as it fits your comfort zone. Give me a logical, reasoned discussion refuting aspirin, warfarin and water as being any different than fluoride, with documentation, and we might have the start of an intellectual debate.

I stand by my assertion that low doses of fluoride are a beneficial preventive component to dental health--I am not discounting that the amount in water may be lowered since it is present in toothpaste and other sources, and I have no argument if people decide to avoid it for their own personal resons, but it is intellectually dishonest to call it  a poison and advocate for it being banned since the benefits will pay off in the future.

1215's picture
1215
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Posts: 6
water

Mark and DTM,

As I re-read both your posts, perhaps we are not as far apart as I first thought.

With an ideal situation and personal responsibility, perhaps flouride would not be a benefit to some of us individually, but as the article suggested, the reduction in decay proves its benefits to society as a whole. The reduction in decay came DESPITE the typical American diet and since fluoride was added to municipal water supplies.

My argument is one of frustration seeing fluoride demonized by the same people that are drinking soda daily and taking aspirin for their headaches.  You CANNOT selectively call one substance a poison without realzing that nearly EVERYTHING we ingest is a poison at high concentrations.

It is the selectivity and narrow mindedness of weak, unsupported claims that creates confusion and doubt among the less educated.

I attribute having 28 teeth at my age a direct result of fluoridation. While I currently eat healthy and follow prescribed dental hygiene, I did not when younger and I doubt many of us did. My father lost his teeth before age 40 and my mother over half of hers. My kids have no cavities.

Thanks to the science that provided the knowledge.

1215's picture
1215
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ao's picture
ao
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Posts: 2220
fluoride stupefaction, establishment propaganda, and Nazis

1215 wrote:

Mark,

I agree with you 100% that we as a society should improve our dietary choices for many reasons, including reducing decay.

But seriously, are you kidding?

People as a whole, and most of us individually (including myself) are lazy and will usually take the easy way. If you can you truthfully answer yes to these questions, then I would guess you are in the top 2% of Americans:

--have you flossed in the last 24 hours? at least 3x in the last 5 days?

-exercised for 30 minutes in the last 24 hours? at least 3x in the last week?

-kept your carbohydrate intake  under 100 grams/day for any of the last several days?

-not had any carbonated beverage intake or nicotine use in the last month?

Another point that few decline to consider since it involves serious thought:

have you taken an aspirin or tylenol recently? Did you consider it a poison? Did you realize that they are lethal at high doses? Does that make them a poison?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin_poisoning

the same is true for coumadin, generic warfarin, which was developed as a rat poison and is now a life saving drug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

have you had a sip of water today? careful, too much can be lethal:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1770067/

The list goes on and on and on--almost everything we ingest can be lethal in high doses, but most are proven beneficial in low doses.

So I challenge you you to tell me how you differentiate one item as a poison and another not, except as it fits your comfort zone. Give me a logical, reasoned discussion refuting aspirin, warfarin and water as being any different than fluoride, with documentation, and we might have the start of an intellectual debate.

I stand by my assertion that low doses of fluoride are a beneficial preventive component to dental health--I am not discounting that the amount in water may be lowered since it is present in toothpaste and other sources, and I have no argument if people decide to avoid it for their own personal resons, but it is intellectually dishonest to call it  a poison and advocate for it being banned since the benefits will pay off in the future.

"Warning: This Daily Habit is Damaging Your Bones, Brain, Kidneys, and Thyroid"

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/07/01/paul-connett-interview.aspx

"We now have 23 studies from four different countries; Mexico, Iran, India and China, which indicate that moderate exposure to fluoride is lowering IQ in children," Connett says.

"The lowest level at which they estimate this is happening is 1.9 parts per million of fluoride.

If you've got an effect at 1.9 parts per million with a few hundred children in the study, then there is not enough margin of safety to protect every child that's being exposed to fluoride."

Fluoride and the Nazi connection.

http://truth11.com/2009/12/01/nazi-connections-to-flouride-in-americas-drinking-water/

I'll pass ... from someone whose children have been raised on well water to adulthood and have zero dental caries.   While I appreciate the benefits of modern dentistry, mercury based amalgam and excessive fluoridation are not two of their shining examples of good sense.

mtforge's picture
mtforge
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Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 6
currently nonfluoride water

So my household and others who have their own well with no fluoride water have an excess of cavities and our teeth are falling out? It would seem an easy enough study to confirm the benefits or dangers of fluoride by comparing city and non city water.

Poet's picture
Poet
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Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
A Modest Proposal...

Fluoride?

How about we put fluoxetine in the water supply. I hear Eli Lilly and other companies that produce fluoxetine would be very interested in this proposal.

After all, tens of millions of people in America are at risk of depression and feelings of negativity about their personal live or work situations. We can prevent a lot of unnecessary suicides and self-harm in this manner by water fluoxetination.

After all, people are too lazy to take responsible care of their health, and human lives are far more important than mere cavities. The benefits outweigh the risks.

Poet

MarkM's picture
MarkM
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 755
Or...

We remove McDonald's from the food supply. Certainly, their contribution to chronic diseases in this country have caused more societal costs than tooth decay. Type II diabetes, heart disease, obesity and all it's associated issues or a set of dentures?

Seriously, my issue with water fluoridation is that I was given no choice. I don't like things being put in my food supply by central planners. The potential unintended consequences are never known until the damage is done.

sofistek's picture
sofistek
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 635
I've switched ...

... to non-flouride toothpaste. I've got awful teeth but still have most of my teeth (though most of them are filled with something), so we'll see if this has any impact, in months to come. I've also cut out refined sugar (still have a very small bit of honey and also fruit, but no chocolate, ice cream, cake, biscuits/cookies, sweetened yoghurt, etc.), so that should help.

Regarding toxins, a couple of good books cover that area - Gut and Psychology Syndrome and Deep Nutirition. Nourishing Traditions also has a lot of interesting info even though it's probably primarily a cookbook.

Tony

jpitre's picture
jpitre
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 3 2009
Posts: 366
Fluoride

I find it hard to believe that there is anyone left that would advocate adding much of anything to our domestic water supply as a dietary supplement. Our challenge is to do our best to have clean, health giving, fresh water. We seem to be stuck with adding chlorine to keep the bacteria count at an acceptable level, but other than that (or some better way) our aim needs to be have the cleanest best water we can obtain - without additives - preferably without even trace drugs & hormones as we find in most of our city water.

If fluoride is good, why not add other minerals, drugs and vitamins - of course that is ridiculous on the face of it, but somehow fluoride is OK ?!?

Think of drinking water, soft drinks, beer, infant formula, using fluoride toothpaste and getting the dentist fluoride treatment - add it all up and overdose is easily in order. Then add a vegetable garden watered with fluoridated water, fed to chickens and eaten as eggs - each step concentrating more and more fluoride to poison your body. Over time, our soil becomes loaded with more and more fluoride as do our septic & sewage treatment systems. Then add industrial processes that use domestic fluoridated water to process products we ingest or even touch and more is loaded into our bodies.

Some light reading on the subject:

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/02/02/fluoride-safety-part-one.aspx

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/11/dr-bill-osmunson-on-fluoride.aspx

Personally, I drink water from my own well that is fluoride (and chlorine) free and drink almost no commercially prepared foods or beverages, as well as water my garden & trees

Good health to all !

Jim

MrEnergyCzar's picture
MrEnergyCzar
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Joined: Oct 14 2010
Posts: 54
flouride

Poor people in other countries that eat fresh non-processed food have healthier teeth than Americans...  

MrEnergyCzar

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