Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

80 posts / 0 new
Last post
A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2311
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

While the general requirements of survival are unisex, the particulars are most certainly not.

The question of seeking advice from someone of the same gender represents maturity, because quite frankly, if a woman asks a man what to do during her menstrual cycle, he might have an answer - but that answer is not based on experience - it's based on knowledge.

A woman would be a far better resource for this kind of information.
Similarly, because of the aforementioned differences in our fundemental approach to problems, men and women address things entirely differently, especially at the "shallow" end of the survival pool.

So in defining ones' needs and priorities, gender plays as important of a role as do things like geographic location, terrain composition and what skills you're equipped with.

So in dealing with the unisex perparations, you can deal with the vast majority of the actual "needs" of survival.
For example, I loosely break survival down into 3 main catagories:
1. Sustainence
2. Shelter
3. Protection

We all needs these things, and we're all equipped with the most important tool of aquisition: Our brain.
The matter becomes training the body to optimize around these things, and the only real way to do that is to experience success and failures.

My advice is take classes that will give you a "baseline" level of ability.
OnPoint Tactical has an excellent series of scout/tracker courses that can prepare you for survival in the most primitive situations.
If you're looking for proficiency with firearms, be cautioned that no "one" school will do anything more than give you an approach for problem resolution - no different than Martial Arts. It takes years of dedication and practice to reach real proficiency here, but 95% of the population never does. Further, cunning and intelligence are just as important as skillset with regards to protection.

Be a student, and never quit learning. Try different approaches and don't get comfortable with any one routine unless you can prove it to work consistently. Use any opportunity to practice your skills. If you go camping, don't bring a tent. Don't bring presto-logs. Build things from the ground up. Don't fish using a pole and line - use a stick, a hook and scavenge periwinkles and nightcrawlers. Learn where the fish hide. Take a First Aid/CPR class and keep a kit handy at all times. If you buy a gun, carry it everywhere. It's not supposed to be comfortable, it's supposed to be comforting.

Your brain can be taught, but your body learns through experience. A disparity between these two things is the greatest disadvantage during crisis.

The general issues will reveal the subtle differences between preparing as a man or woman. Once you've revealed them, address them!

It's a challenge that is never-ending and very satisfying.

Cheers,

Aaron

Bluenoser's picture
Bluenoser
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 11 2010
Posts: 28
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Romans, thank you for the post about the silicone cup (I saw one in our local pharmacy a few weeks ago, but wasn't sure if it would actually work).  I also have a 13 year old daughter, and I've been worried about what to do in the feminine hygiene department.  I think I'll take a cue from your book and order some cloth pads online; in the event of shortages, cloth pads would be most welcome.  I can still remember being snowed in for four days when my son was an infant.  I was nursing so milk wasn't an issue, but I ran out of disposable diapers by the 3rd day (ended up calling mom and fashioning something out of receiving blankets). 

Speaking of that experience, maybe that's something young mothers or those who are planning to be should consider learning as a post-peak skill; cloth diapering, making your own baby food from scratch, etc. 

Of course, you may have to get the singles threat up and running first Wink

Bluenoser

Romans12.2's picture
Romans12.2
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 14 2009
Posts: 227
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Aaron - Your camping trip fills me with terror!  Pleeease tell me I can at least bring bug spray.  Because let out in the wilderness like that means I'm going to sleep hungry, lying on the dirt.         But I get your point. 

I think it's funny how we spend our days buying "stuff"  to make us feel more prepared for something wicked this way comes..yet most of it I've never tried to use.  Rocket stove, solar ovens, berkey water filters, freeze dried food LOL what the heck do I do with all this stuff!  Like I said before, my husband can do anything.  But not so much me.  He just bought me a gun (glock) last week and I have not even held it yet.  I need to get busy not being such a priss and learn how to get more dirty. 

I need to try camping without my RVSmile

V's picture
V
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 14 2009
Posts: 849
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Just an observation on hygiene. It would probably be a good idea to do away with toilet paper and use water. It is a good all round practice whether the SHTF or not. Sorry couldn't resist

If you travel much especially in Asia water is the general method for cleaning oneself.

Carry on ladies

V

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Hi all.

Long before I came across this thread just today, I've had thoughts and concerns about how a breakdown in society would affect survival, how things might be for women. These are just some thoughts, so please consider them drafts.

1. I think guns are likely going to be a major form of equalization. In a post-collapse world, defense means not just fending off attacks (being reactive and possibly non-injurous) but the ability to prevent or end attacks (which may require seriously-respected lethal deterring force). While it is possible to learn self-defense and martial arts, the ability to keep foes at a greater distance rather than out of arm's reach is also very important. Bare knuckles do not defend against a gun. But more than that, guns are a form of power, and those who are armed get to have a say in how things are run.

2. I think something like the Keeper or Diva Cup or Moon Cup is a great way to avoid having to buy pads or tampons. My wife has used one for most of her menstrual life and not only does it work and is safe, she's never had to worry about toxic shock syndrome. Other practical investments: cervical caps made of silicone that can act as a second barrier in addition to cycle beads to help with the natural method.

3. Infant mortality and the lack of contraceptives in a long-term post-collapse world will likely lead to more children (to offset deaths and because pregnancies would be harder to prevent). However, childbirth was a major killer of women in olden times - as many as 1 in 8 women died during childbirth or after (post-partum hemorrhage or other complications), since women tended to have between 5 and 8 or more children throughout their lives. Most modern doctors have never delivered babies - and even obstetricians typically only have experience with births in a hospital with support staff and sterile operating equipment on hand. A great skill set to have, therefore, is midwifery and its focus on natural birth at home, herbal remedies, non-invasive techniques, along with well woman care. For example, there are a variety of midwifely techniques for dealing with post-partum hemorrhage, shoulder dystocia, even breech births). Modern American midwifery has come a long way and is even experiencing a renaissance these days. The best midwives today combine a degree in nursing with practical experience with home birth.

4. In a post-collapse world with few medicines to treat sexually transmitted diseases, restricted access to methods of contraception, lack of modern technology to treat complications resulting from childbirth, and higher infant/child mortality... I think prudent parents will naturally be more watchful and more conservative in how they raise their daughters than they are today. As in olden times, they will likely want significantly more input in selection of a suitable mate.

5. The above, coupled with the increased chaos of a post-collapse world, with its communication and travel disruption, a breakdown in the rule of law, and likely greater confinement to home, my thoughts are that this may result in women as a whole having reduced freedoms. I think it will take conscious effort on the part of both women and men who recognize these issues to work against the conservative tide, in order for both sexes to retain their hard-fought freedoms and egalitarianism.

As a man, a husband, a brother, a father, a son, these are some of the thoughts going on in my head.

Poet

Full Moon's picture
Full Moon
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2008
Posts: 1258
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Poet ,    Your  post is quite helpful  to me .     There are so many things we depend  upon the men in our lives to do for us .     My husband had me try several guns to find the one I was most comfortable with .  Many are just to heavy  ... the ak  and a couple of the shot guns .   I found I was a better shot with one I felt most comfortable with . ... a small 15mil .     Even with hunting  and fishing  I would rather clean and cook  than do the actual Hunt .    Having always been surrounded by men I have not gotten good at these skills.... probably by choice .  The boys would rather check the lines on the river bank   than cook but they can do both well .  

  After yesterday  I felt most vulnerable in the area of  putting up wood  !    Again an area  the men handled.    I come to find some of the chainsaws are just too big.  We had several stormy days of 80 mile an hour straight line winds . This took out many 150 year old trees   .  So the clean up has been  a huge endeavor  .    Fortunately  we had a system going  so that  one person kept the chains saws filled and sharpened while the stronger people  ran the chainsaws  and others carried and loaded .   Now had the men not been around  the power would have been out MANY more days and so would the wood  .    So today the Beets, peas and broccoli are ready to  be harvested  and I will staying behind in the kitchen where I am personally more comfortable .    Just talking for myself ladies  not for  the whole .

A  personal preference on Delivering babies ....   Squatting is my favorite  or laying on one side to take pressure off the back.  This is very helpful with babies that present themselves sunny side up  or breech .   Blood pressure cuff and a few other supplies such as Ketone strips  are  very helpful to keep on hand for pregnancies  so you can tell if a body is struggling in one area or another and the diet need be altered .   One thing I would like to be able to  get would be the  pepper jelly  they  use to help with dilation and effacing the cervix .  Also be aware after the first few, the babies come rather quickly and some without much notice at all .  Honestly  now days I hear the women talking of  asking for an epidural  every time  unless they are  home birthing  .   Might want to study the Natural planning  for BC as well .  Know your body and signs of fertile times  will be helpful for those not wishing to have babies .  

If  a gal is called to be single or  prides  them self  in independence  I would still consider finding a group  as there are just so many things we are not so good  at doing .    I think I saw a  site  www.survialsingle.com     might be something to snoop around at .      There is no Mr. (or MRS.)  Perfect out there ... Everyone has faults   .  Hope you  do  not hold  out for that reason alone .   You grow and   learn to love people  .

Looking forward to more of  the wisdom on these subjects .

FM .

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2311
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Romans12.2,

My general rule (Edit: For camping!) is if it can't be replaced - don't use it or use it as sparingly as possible.

It doesn't make for comfort, but it's a great lesson in how "plugged in" we all are to the system of just in time delivery. As humans, we're equipped with everything we need to live under piles of brush and eat scavenged bugs. Not advocating that exactly, but taking a gradual approach and trying to "live wild" can help act as "stress inoculation" if that situation ever unfolds... that situation being "Insert catastrophe of your choice here" =)

The same principle can be applied in the comfort of your own home... but it's a lot harder to get through without cheating, and I don't know of anyone who only eats what they themselves grow.

Poet,

Your analysis is outstanding - I really enjoyed it.
However, you said:

Quote:
Bare knuckles do not defend against a gun. But more than that, guns are a form of power, and those who are armed get to have a say in how things are run.

Recently, with the progressive "fighting" schools, this notion is being proven untrue.
At extremely close interval, fixation on ones' weapon can become an extreme liability and the person with the firearm may be pressed into a role where they are in a physical struggle for the weapon - this is as serious of a situation as ever existed.

Because of this, the current paradigm is shifting towards a "three fold" approach to martialism - being effective with empty hands, edged weapons and firearms, and knowing when to itegrate them into dicey situations. This applies equally (if not moreso) to women - a firearm must be defended, in addition to providing defense.

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly.

Cheers,

Aaron

soulsurfersteph's picture
soulsurfersteph
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 16 2010
Posts: 204
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

I think one benefit of living single as long as I have, I don't rely on a man to do things for me. I have learned to be self-sufficient. OK, there are things that need to be fixed that the apartment manager or landlord takes care of. But I have my own toolbox and I don't go running and screaming from the hardware store.

Even if you have a husband, the husband may die before you. Or he may leave you. Or the husband could be sick and incapacitated, and you'll have to take care of everything while you take care of him.

Having a good healthy man around is of course preferable, but I wouldn't rely on that as my main survival strategy.

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Aaron Moyer wrote:

Poet,

Your analysis is outstanding - I really enjoyed it.
However, you said:

Quote:
Bare knuckles do not defend against a gun. But more than that, guns are a form of power, and those who are armed get to have a say in how things are run.

Recently, with the progressive "fighting" schools, this notion is being proven untrue.
At extremely close interval, fixation on ones' weapon can become an extreme liability and the person with the firearm may be pressed into a role where they are in a physical struggle for the weapon - this is as serious of a situation as ever existed.

Because of this, the current paradigm is shifting towards a "three fold" approach to martialism - being effective with empty hands, edged weapons and firearms, and knowing when to itegrate them into dicey situations. This applies equally (if not moreso) to women - a firearm must be defended, in addition to providing defense.

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly.

Cheers,

Aaron

Aaron:

Thank you for the kudos!

I would say for a warrior such as yourself, defending at close quarters against a gun, you'd likely succeed, though I'd hate to see the aftermath of a 1% chance of failure.

However, for most people who are not as well-trained, such as myself, I'd say a loaded gun (or even the fear of a loaded gun) is more capable of keeping an attacker at a distance just by the attacker wanting to stay safetly away.

And in a post-collapse society, knowing a home has armed people ready to defend it, or knowing citizens you want to take rights away from are armed and could shoot a would-be petty tyrant, that I think would be a measure of deterrence against both invasion and enslavement.

That was my my perspective when I wrote as I wrote.

Poet

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2311
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Poet - thanks for the elaboration!

I think you're probably correct for 99% of the population.
The violent "1%'r's" are few and far between, and as the 1980's proved, Mutually Assured Destruction is a very compelling concept.
Most criminals avoid the "home court advantage" too - which also is in line with your previous post.

My general word of caution to anyone who carries a gun, though, would be make sure you keep your weapon close, and your adversary distant. Especially with an autoloader, the chance of the weapon malfunctioning in a grapple or struggle for control over the weapon is substantial - and could mean an instant loss of the "advantage" of being armed.
My observations here are largely thanks to "SouthNarc", and his ECQC 1/2 evolutions, which he provides to those with basic pistol proficiency at a very reasonable cost.

We can always talk more about it on the Definitive Tactics Thread, if anyone is interested.

Cheers,

Aaron

soulsurfersteph's picture
soulsurfersteph
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 16 2010
Posts: 204
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Along the lines of self-defense and survival...

It is sad that such a thing like this would ever be needed, but it is an interesting concept: A barbed female condom that would attach to a rapist and disable him to the point where he'd have to go get the object removed by a doctor:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/06/20/south.africa.female.condom/index.html

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

soulsurfersteph wrote:

Along the lines of self-defense and survival...

It is sad that such a thing like this would ever be needed, but it is an interesting concept: A barbed female condom that would attach to a rapist and disable him to the point where he'd have to go get the object removed by a doctor:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/06/20/south.africa.female.condom/index.html

Soulsurfersteph:

I'd be a little wary about using it if I were a woman.

First there's the matter of a woman consciously deciding to wear it, and if so, when and where and for how long.

Second, if a man had the force to force a woman and confine her long enough to remove clothes, then he's likely got a gun or some other means of inflicting harm. Depending on how badly a penis is injured by such a thing - a finger pull on a trigger, a lashing out with a knife or a swing with a tire iron may not be out of the capabilities of an enraged rapist.

Third, if barbed female condoms come to be a factor, then rapists may just end up checking first.

Therefore, I'd say the it's best to not need it: Be alert, be aware of surroundings, avoid places and situations (yes, this means less freedom of movement for women), and have something to defend with and deter with (a companion, a dog, a gun, etc.).

Poet

soulsurfersteph's picture
soulsurfersteph
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 16 2010
Posts: 204
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Good points, Poet. I don't endorse this female condom either way. It was created for South African women, who have to deal with a ridiculously high amount of rape. It's such a huge epidemic over there, they need to resort to drastic measures. It's very sad. In that situation, I might risk the condom just to try to get these guys caught. 

nickbert's picture
nickbert
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 14 2009
Posts: 1119
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Poet-

The only thing I'd add to the already great advice on self-defense (with firearms or otherwise) is that you MUST have the will and full intent to do whatever damage is necessary.  It doesn't mean you have to take it that far, but at least be prepared to do so.  Predators (and sometimes those who are just good at reading people) can often tell whether you have the intent to use serious force, and if you enter the situation with the intent to simply scare off the attacker there is a chance they will somehow pick up on that and try their luck.  Oddly enough, having the intent to use serious or lethal force in a self-defense situation often makes it less likely you'll have to do so.  Something in the body language, tone, and mental state tends to carry that across to an aggressor.  It sounds easier than it is, and though with some people this intent or focus comes naturally, in others (like me) it needs to be developed to some degree.  This is probably one of the most valuable things (along with increasing one's overall state of everyday awareness) to take away from any self-defense oriented martial art or combat system.  And for those who are interested, many schools, like my old one, offer women's self-defense classes for very reduced rates compared to regular instruction.  They really help in getting women more comfortable with handling physical confrontation and threats.

Just BTW, I really like the idea behind this thread.  My wife is on board with the CC (more or less), but I instinctively know that she sees things in different ways than I do.  So it helps to see how other women think about and handle these concepts and challenges. 

Hey and who knows, maybe it'll even give me the edge to win the occasional argument with her! (Stop laughing!... I've only been married a year and am still entitled to my delusions Laughing)

- Nick

Full Moon's picture
Full Moon
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2008
Posts: 1258
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Ladies , At the risk of sounding simple , Peacocks are a wonderful  defense  alarm for the  homestead  .   They sound off on intruders and startles the bejeebers out of them .     Sorry if it is to *  out of the box *.    But even geese will go after a stranger in the yard .   

FM

Bonus is that  they eat a lot of bugs .

soulsurfersteph's picture
soulsurfersteph
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 16 2010
Posts: 204
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Considering I"m not allowed to have pets in my building, I doubt the landlord would be happy with peacocks running around. :-)

In response to an earlier comment above...I do think that women who appear to be weak and defenseless may be more likely to be targeted. Carrying yourself with some strength and purpose and looking like you wouldn't be easily messed with might help dissuade potential attackers.

All I know is, if anyone tried to mess with me they would leave with some serious damage. I'm not going down without a fight!

That said, there are also times to just back off. I had a big guy menace me in my car when I first moved to LA, because he said I "looked at him funny" while I was driving. He followed me to my parking spot and got out and started yelling at me. I kept the window rolled up, my door locked, and apologized for any perceived offense, and he finally backed off. He had his hand behind his back and could have had a knife or a gun. I was only 22 and scared out of my mind but managed to respond calmly despite the fact that my legs were literally shaking.

That when I first moved here. I have since learned to studiously ignore other drivers...don't flip them off, look at them funny, or otherwise antagonize them. Some crazy people around here. If you pretend you are oblivious as opposed to hostile they'll usually go find someone else to fight with. 

mooselick7's picture
mooselick7
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 22 2009
Posts: 192
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

These folks are in Pasadena, CA but maybe a part of a support system for you.

http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/

Bluenoser's picture
Bluenoser
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 11 2010
Posts: 28
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

I'm still getting used to the forum, but I think this might fall here.  I've been reading a lot about currency, and alternatives to the dollar.  While I understand that precious metals are highly portable, don't deteriorate, and would be very tradeable in the event of a crash I also think that there are certain essentials that would carry high yield bartering power.  I believe that in true collapse situations they may be far more valuable than gold or silver.  

On the main forum threads there is some discussion of the obvious ones (eg non-perishable food), but I've been looking at this through a woman's lens.  Having just put down a large a batch of strawberry jam last night - up until midnight trying my hand at old fashioned pectin free jam making while hubby watched the G-20 rioting in Toronto on TV - I started to think about things like snap lids.  You can use glass mason jars over and over, but you have to replace the lids.   Here in Canada, you can pick up a package of 12 snap lids for about $1.25 at the local grocery store (probably less in the US), and they take up very little space.  Have any of you been putting by inexpensive, homey necessities with a view to using them for barter down the road? 

Some that spring immediately to my mind are snap lids, sewing needles and thread, 'shoe goo' or rubber patches for repairing boots, and extra heirloom seeds (maybe save 3-4 times as much as you need for your own use; if things remain as they are you can give it to a fellow gardener, but if the currency fails you could barter with it).  All of these items are things that only cost a few dollars, and take up almost no space.  Anyone else have any ideas? 

Bluenoser

Amanda V's picture
Amanda V
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 31 2008
Posts: 262
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Great idea blue noser, probably worthy of a thread of its own.

Cheap tradable items that come to mind:

bars of soap, cheap toothbrushes, almost all glue, candles, paracetomol, disinfectant, elastoplasts, any medical stuff, and basic tools which second hand are pretty cheap now eg hammer, spade.

A bit more expensive, but being a Mum I always think about how in demand cloth nappies are going to be. 

You know you can use wax on top of the jam if you don't have a lid.  So add wax to the list.

deggleton's picture
deggleton
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 250
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

soulsurfersteph wrote:

There are official Transition teams in my area...though I went to one meeting and everyone was much older than me and already homeowners. Not much is being done in regards to more transient populations and younger people, it seems.

They need and want to get around to those other cohorts, and could use your help to begin, even if you are leaving after a while.  They can't do Transition on their own and they know it.

soulsurfersteph's picture
soulsurfersteph
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 16 2010
Posts: 204
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

I do not plan to be in Los Angeles a year from now. My time between now and then is going to be spent getting my personal business in order. I'll work on developing community in the next place I land.

deggleton wrote:

soulsurfersteph wrote:

There are official Transition teams in my area...though I went to one meeting and everyone was much older than me and already homeowners. Not much is being done in regards to more transient populations and younger people, it seems.

They need and want to get around to those other cohorts, and could use your help to begin, even if you are leaving after a while.  They can't do Transition on their own and they know it.

deggleton's picture
deggleton
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 250
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

soulsurfersteph wrote:

I do not plan to be in Los Angeles a year from now. My time between now and then is going to be spent getting my personal business in order. I'll work on developing community in the next place I land.

First things first.  Happy ordering, scouting and choosing!

Bluenoser's picture
Bluenoser
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 11 2010
Posts: 28
Re: Preparing as a Woman for the Crash

Good call on the cloth diapers (or even child-safe diaper pins for use with the old fashioned flannel squares).

As for wax, I do have two pounds of ParoWax set aside for personal use and am planning to approach my eleventh grade English teacher about teaching me beekeeping - or better still, teaching a class.  I think beeswax would work, as the point is to keep the seal airtight. 

Barbara

Amanda V wrote:

Great idea blue noser, probably worthy of a thread of its own.

Cheap tradable items that come to mind:

bars of soap, cheap toothbrushes, almost all glue, candles, paracetomol, disinfectant, elastoplasts, any medical stuff, and basic tools which second hand are pretty cheap now eg hammer, spade.

A bit more expensive, but being a Mum I always think about how in demand cloth nappies are going to be. 

You know you can use wax on top of the jam if you don't have a lid.  So add wax to the list.

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Women & Retirement Video

The information in the video that is discussed by and provided by members of a personal finance panel (sponsored by Merrill Lynch) is mainstream. It's not Crash Course aware. However, I still think the panelists bring ujp some good points about Women and Retirement:

Women make up the majority of college graduates, they are filling the majority of management positions now - but they still outlive their husbands (they marry older men and they have a longer lifespan) and must save more, even though they earn less.

Women & Retirement: Investing For The Life You Want
http://www.totalmerrill.com/totalmerrill/pages/Webcast_Retire_0611_TM.aspx

Poet

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2311
A bit Surprised...

This being a pretty modern forum, I'm sort of surprised to see the lack of discussion about gender roles in a post-collapse world.

I'm not suggesting anything, but I would be interested in hearing peoples views on the matter.
It seems that decorum might be one of the first things to go, and I really wonder how the last 50 years of social thinking will align with the new times, or reshape our concept of gender roles yet again.

Anyone care to toss in some thoughts or opinions?

Cheers,
Aaron 

Tycer's picture
Tycer
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 26 2009
Posts: 556
Well, from a personal

Well, from a personal standpoint, one of my criteria for a wife was that she be physically and mentally able to live a basic lifestyle. I was blessed and found a strong woman who is also a girly girl. In my opinion, both men and women who have no physical, mental and moral fortitude will be shunned in a post-collapse world. 

Women have let the cat out of the bag in the west that they are our superiors and I don't think you can stuff that kitty back in. The old ways of prejudice will remain buried for at least another generation. Who can guess the future though.

RNcarl's picture
RNcarl
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: May 13 2008
Posts: 350
Tough gender roles

Well,

Women today have it harder than their sisters from the past. Most men expect their partners to still be the "nurturing caregiver" and now in some cases the principle "breadwinner" as well. The psychological pressures are still there because of what has been described as "gender inequality" but now the expectation is that the female partner will also shoulder fiscal responsibility as well. 

Ladies, your sisters from the "feminist movement" shot you all in the proverbial foot!

My bride asked me what attracted me to her, I told her frankly it was because of her strength. I said that I knew living with me was going to be hard for anyone because I am a pain in the a$$. I also saw her ability to organize, her high moral and ethical fiber and then it came to money... She is the only woman I have EVER met that can seemingly create more money than there was before... Kind of like out of  "thin air."  (maybe she was a central banker in another life) And... it also didn't hurt that she is very easy on the eyes!

Now to the gender inequality part. Early in our marriage she accused me of wanting a '50's type wife. Being the thoughtful man that I am, I told her that I did not expect that from her, I told her that I was much more progressive than that, and then said, "that's why I bought you a dishwasher!" - (Just kidding - Just kidding) don't get the knives out just yet. Yes, I did tell her that and it made her break out into hysterical laughter because I winked at her when I said it. That's when I began to realize the dis-service in some ways the feminist movement did for modern women. See, society has the expectation that women can, and will work as much as their male counterparts, but the expectation is still that they do not give up the traditional roles either.

What does all this have to do with what is coming down the pike? I think women may be able to adapt better than us men. Not all women mind you, but because of the demands put on them by "modern life" women have had to be better jugglers in most cases than us men.

I suspect that anyone who is accustomed to "being taken care of" will have the hardest time. I mean the ones who live the lifestyle they cannot afford, and if one paycheck is missed, they will be out on the street. "Nickle rich" was the phrase my father used to describe them.

Lastly, for any "single" person, it will be hard whether they are female or male. Community is important. Hillary Clinton was chastised for saying "it takes a village to raise a child." She is so right, it takes a village to raise a child, because beyond having two loving parents, community is the next most important thing. Community, moving forward will be the most important thing for those who are single, and for all of us.

C.

Full Moon's picture
Full Moon
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2008
Posts: 1258
 ?   I am confused 

?   I am confused  and  do not know where you all are coming from .  My grandmothers and greats beyond had to work along side their husbands on ther homesteads all the time  .     In the fields , butchering ,and everything  .  Even to the point of having to do it all after the husbands wore out ,became ill , were killed in war ,and died first . They have always been able to provide  for their family with what little cash their eggs and chickens brought in . I do not see most  modern woman as having it harder at all .    Men have frequently run off to the fronteer , gold fields,and war  leaving the women  to raise the children and take care of everything at home . They were pretty enough for the husbands to come home to  until lifes hard work took its tole and even then the men seemed to find their way home .  Maybe I am only coming from working class point of veiw .

And yes  the ones who can not figure out how to do hard work have always been able to make money  in Ivory Palaces .

Although many women  have now chosen to join in the wars  I still think enough will left behind to survive .

It is just my thinking no real conviction either way .

FM

Full Moon's picture
Full Moon
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2008
Posts: 1258
 ?   I am confused 

?   I am confused  and  do not know where you all are coming from .  My grandmothers and greats beyond had to work along side their husbands on ther homesteads all the time  .     In the fields , butchering ,and everything  .  Even to the point of having to do it all after the husbands wore out ,became ill , were killed in war ,and died first . They have always been able to provide  for their family with what little cash their eggs and chickens brought in . I do not see most  modern woman as having it harder at all .    Men have frequently run off to the frontier , gold fields,and war  leaving the women  to raise the children and take care of everything at home . They were pretty enough for the husbands to come home to  until life's hard work took its tole and even then the men seemed to find their way home .  Maybe I am only coming from working class point of view .

And yes  the ones who can not figure out how to do hard work have always been able to make money  in Ivory Palaces .

Although many women  have now chosen to join in the wars  I still think enough will left behind to survive .

It is just my thinking no real conviction either way .

FM

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Posts: 1513
the reluctant feminist

Aaron asked:

This being a pretty modern forum, I'm sort of surprised to see the lack of discussion about gender roles in a post-collapse world.

I'm not suggesting anything, but I would be interested in hearing peoples views on the matter.
It seems that decorum might be one of the first things to go, and I really wonder how the last 50 years of social thinking will align with the new times, or reshape our concept of gender roles yet again.

Anyone care to toss in some thoughts or opinions?

One of my names for myself is "the reluctant feminist." You see, I was raised in a very traditional home, and all I wanted to be when I grew up was a wife and mother. Seriously: I thought and still think that is a pretty high calling and a good life's work. But I got abandoned by my ex and had to raise three boys. I chose a non-traditional career (read: men's work) as it allowed me to make enough money to only work one job - "women's work" like waitressing or secretarial meant working two jobs and I needed to be home enough to raise the kids.

Things I learned in heavy construction about how some men look at women:

1. Men can treat you like either a child, a bother  or a moron, just because you are female. The assumption was I had no clue how things worked. Well at first, I didn't, but neither did young men starting in the field. I saw them treated differently. I held my peace.

2. I was accused of "stealing some man's job."  If any man stole that job, it was my ex when he left us.

3. You can be so "protected" by well-meaning fellas that you get no chance to learn your job. I will never forget the conversation I had with a female structural engineer, one I intentionally had within earshot of my project manager: "I can't believe they won't let me go out in the field 'because I might get hurt.' I'm THIRTY EIGHT. Can you imagine them saying that to a 38-year-old man?" I was out in the field the next day. But I had to push to get there.

3. Men can treat you differently when they meet your boyfriend or husband. There was one site when the client treated me like garbage, disparaging my efforts to get them to work safely. Sarcasm, taunts. and outright rebellion reigned until my then boyfriend showed up. They started to treat me with incredible deference after that - simply because they knew I had a protector. Believe it or not, this was not a relief - it filled me with rage. I thought they were just difficult to work with. No, they were just difficult for me to work with because I was female. I could never earn their respect unless a 'grew a pair.'

I can attest that with some guys, in some fields --the high-paying ones--successful females have to be better at their job than the men to even survive. Long story short : I became a trailblazer for women in construction safety in NYC  - not because I set out to be, but because I was a forced to, to feed my children. Women now and in the future will do whatever it takes to take care of their young. God help anyone if they get between the lioness and her cubs.

Wearing my other hat, the science fiction editor one, may I suggest that the recent upsurge in a type of fiction called Steampunk is a reaction to the unwinding crisis and the three Es? Steampunk has strong women (with guns like in the old West, don't mess with these chicks!) dirigibles, and lots of steam-age technology. Try reading BONESHAKER by Cherie Priest as an example of Steampunk.

If decorum is the first thing to go post-crash, I have a gun. And I've probably been worked over by better experts than you.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments