Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

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Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

 Einstein put it best when he said: 

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

 I was sitting in class the other day and my teacher was talking about our current economic problem along with the future problem of HEALTH CARE.  COST COST COST is what it all came down to.  We will never be able to afford all the entitlements and our way of life with the increasing population.    So we had to write a paper on how to solve the problems of the future.  So I want to give you all a sample of what I have come up with.  The assignment is to fast forward to 2025 and explain how to solve the problem of the economy and health care along with the increased population.    

 

Ok, I started my paper with that famous quote above.  I am a big believer in a pure Resource Based Economy, which is an economic system based on not money or any type of medium of exchange but just the resources and technology to accomplish tasks.  This is all advocated by Jacque Fresco.  Under a resource based economy, resources are used intelligently to benefit everyone, by ending scarcity, as opposed to a money based economy which uses resources poorly for the pure interest of market share and money.  For example, you don't need 5 or 10 companies making  5 or 10 different types of carpet cleaners or 25 different types of cars, that just promotes misallocation of resources for obtaining market shares.  So with that example we see how we misuse resources, you can imagine many more examples on your spare time, but for now I'll give you that example.  

 

 Many people argue that a pure resources based economy is just to advanced for people to understand.  Not everyone in the population will be behaving in a civilized way and chaos would break out.  I agree, that kind of system is not really ready for the pinheads to understand yet, well not all are pinheads but most are.  So I came up with a solution to the problem and how to get from a money system to a pure resource based economy with minimal damage.  I am just giving a brief overview as to what I mean, I am not gonna go into great detail because then this forum would be over 150 pages.

 

   I call it the HDFC card (Humanitarian Digital Fulfillment Card)....this card which will look like an i-phone (only thing I could come up with....sorry Mr. Jobs).  So lets paint the picture.  2010 weak dollar, 2015 WW3, 2020 major economic breakdown.  The leaders of the world are having an impossible time fixing the worlds problems.  The leaders argue over how to make the money system work for the economies around the world.  Same old status quo bullshit trying to be implemented on society but this time with DIFFERENT results.  Yeah we have all herd that before.   

 

The role of the card:  The HDFC card will be used as your RIGHT to be active in the community and allow you to have access to things.  The card would have your info and skill/education level on it and would put you in a category and then a local database would allow you to see what tasks are available.   If you give people the access to the necessities in life their behavior changes for the better.  People would still do their day to day job or career.  As long as people contribute to society then they can have access to things.   Ex.  The local lazy bum down the road who could never feed his family can now go to his local job database and look at what he can do to contribute instead of being lazy.   Even if it is just local clean up or labor his 8 hr day would allow him to go to the supply store and get food for the day or to without a price tag.  His incentive to make his life better and his kids is to find work.  Unemployment would basically not be, because people are doing jobs for necessities and a higher standard of living not money.   People with high skill/education levels would go about their day to day business such as medical, construction, science and so on.  They would also be under the same incentive as the bum.  

 

We would end meaning less jobs such as bankers, bond traders, accounting because they are not relevant under this card system.  Peoples efforts toward making society better would allow them to building vacation time, or have access to a better car or house.  I consider it a self correcting system because people know that they have to be active to have access to things and not worry about getting money to obtain access.  Under the money system people do work, but only get limited access to things because they are not in a high pay grade.  Under the money system someone who makes crap money will have aberrant behavior and may sell drugs or kill and rob someone to obtain money that they need to have access to things.  Under the HDFC card system this would not happen, because you cannot rob someone of their time and labor, just like you could no longer rob a bank for they are no longer needed.  So crime would drop sharply.  People would be working under this system until the right technology comes along and replaces humans.  That is the only reason why you have a job to begin with.  You are at your job till it becomes automated.

 

  This new society would really only have to figure our a few things as opposed to many under a money system.  Under the card system issues such as supply/demand, human labor/skills, and level of technology would to be addressed.  As opposed to the money system which wastes time talking about budgets, economic formulas, complicated laws, company right (no bid contracts), and many many others.    Issues such as Pollution, Energy would be solved at a faster pace because people would be working to enhance not just society standard of living but their own too.  If a group of scientists do not want to finish a project that would give free energy to his community then he puts his own family and loved ones at risk too, so his incentive changes and completes the task.  Also if they do not get a job done, then they loose access to things they enjoy.  Sounds harsh in a way, but the money system produces much more problems as we currently see on tv.    

 

 Ok well this is just a taste of what I have come up with so far, I could type more but I am getting a little drained looking at my computer.  Now I must remind you this is for the year 2025, not 2009.  So your level of thinking must apply to the future and not the present cause just like Einstein said you will not be able to solve future problems with the level of thinking that created them.   My big end point I intend to make on my paper is:  WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SOLVE FUTURE PROBLEMS WITH THE OUTDATED MONEY SYSTEM.   I'm sure flaws will be pointed out, no biggie.  I will respond the best I can.  NEED FEEDBACK.   Oh I did not check for spelling and other grammar.    

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
So who gets to decide exactly HOW "resources are used to benefit everyone"????? 
 
how is the owner of a carpet cleaning company, for example, benefited when "somebody" decides that his company is no longer needed because there are already "enough"????? 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

 Oh I did not check for spelling and other grammar.

I wish you would have. The number of spelling and grammatical errors made for very painful reading.

If I were a teacher, I would also tell you to go back and try again as I personally don't feel this is a very well thought out concept. There are so many problems that it would take me too much time to explain them all.

Sorry.

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

If you ask me, the HDFC card looks an awful lot like a credit card. Also, wouldn't the database by run by the same people who are now bankers?

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
Bankers would not be running the system.  Instead of politicians, technicians and engineers are used because they are the ones who create technology now, which makes our life easier.  
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
Sorry Sam was not worried about grammatical errors, I was in a hurry.  This is not english class.  I'll worry about that when I hand in my paper.   
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Quote:
Bankers would not be running the system.  Instead of politicians,
technicians and engineers are used because they are the ones who create
technology now, which makes our life easier. 

Who appoints the technicians and engineers? If not politicians, then I assume the techs and engs run for "office", so hence they are the politicians.

Sounds a lot like 1984 or worse.  No thanks.

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
Oh pleeze 1984. Yikes.  Voting would still play a role till the right kind of technology comes along and governs the amount of resources we have and how they can be used properly to benefit society.
 
As opposed to our lame money system that has more flaws in it.  
 
Remember it's the politicians that create the problems of today, not technicians and engineers.  It's the bankers/politicians that force the engineers to makes the A-bomb or hide the electric car from society so the bankers oil buddies get market share, while screwing over the majority.   
 
Over 130,000 scientists were used creating the first bomb, think how far advanced we would be if they were used to benefit not destroy society.
 
~Joe 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
  If gold were used as money, how long would that last?  When you read the book WEB of DEBT, you will understand that a new system must be thought of.  A money system is just more of the same.  You really want your children going through more of the same and possibly worse Pat?  
 
Like I said you cannot ROB someone of their time and effort, but you can take their gold.  Think beyond a 2009 level. 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

You still have not answered my question:  who appoints or decides who the engineers and technicians are?

I didn't say this was like 1984.  I said it was worse than 1984.

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
  I did answer your question.  voting would take place until the right technology comes along to govern and make resource based decisions.  
 
Your in 1984 now Pat.  
 
People can rob you of your gold and money but not your time and effort.
 
 
 No one can rob a bank or kill you for money your under a card system.  No one sells illegal drugs cause money is the motive.  
 
Your time and effort is the measurement used to decide what you can have.  we have that today under our money system but it's not exactly working out.  Look at the poverty around the world, that says it all.  
 
 
 
 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
YOU'RE IN 1984 now.  Just caught that.  
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Thanks for the paragraphs ;)

Strangely enough this misuse of resources is covered nicely in 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist' by Robert Tressel (??) first book that really changed my life. I think you would really enjoy that if you have not already read it.

I only scanned the replies but Patrick, no need to choose who elects \ selects positions - natural ability in specific areas will suffice. For example I know some graphic designers who would jump out of the window before handling programming code and vice versa. Plato mentioned related issues in the republic - basically people should only take on positions of responsibiliy only because of their sense of duty not their yearnings for power.

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Aha, and once this technology is devised, who programs the code that defines what everyone's time and effort are worth?

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
Very good points.  Sounds like a great read.  I'll add that to my list.  Thanks 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
If you're a nurse and your neighbor is a high tech farmer, then both of you have value and skill, so there would be no stopping either of you from obtaining food and clothing for yourself.  
 
There would be ranking, but remember we are talking about satisfying the needs of people not being greedy.  
 
Think about how many people get screwed over by the money system.  All the victims of mr. Maddoff (who should be burned alive) and all the countries that have corruption due to money.  Think about child sex trade, human traffic trade, black market trade, drug trade, suicide because some investor lost money for his his clients, suicide from gambling, someone killing themselves because their life insurance policy would provide for their family.  Being worried about someone's worth should be of no concern as long as they are being a contributor.  Unless you want to keep a money system and live with all those problems listed above.  
 
Money is the root of all evil, we see it everyday with a blind eye.  
 
 
You can always be robbed of your money but not your time and effort.  
 
 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Quote:
If you're a nurse and your neighbor is a high tech farmer, then both
of you have value and skill, so there would be no stopping either of
you from obtaining food and clothing for yourself.   There would be
ranking, but remember we are talking about satisfying the needs of
people not being greedy.   Think about how many people get screwed over
by the money system.  All the victims of mr. Maddoff (who should be burned alive) and
all the countries that have corruption due to money.  Think about child
sex trade, human traffic trade, black market trade, drug trade, suicide
because some investor lost money for his his clients, suicide from
gambling, someone killing themselves because their life insurance
policy would provide for their family.  Being worried about someone's
worth should be of no concern as long as they are being a contributor.
Unless you want to keep a money system and live with all those
problems listed above.   Money is the root of all evil, we see it
everyday with a blind eye.    You can always be robbed of your money
but not your time and effort.   

Don't you see that your system is robbing everyone of their money, and putting all control over their time and effort into the hands of whoever the elites that would program these cards are????

We do not have a perfect system, but its orders of magnitude more fair than what you propose.  Have you thought of how many people would commit suicide under your system due to how totalitarian it is?  

Seriously, think about what you are saying!

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
Don't you see that NO IT'S NOT.  The money system is the problem PAT!.  I agree no system is perfect, there is no such thing.  You're worried about robbing people of MONEY.  So you're advocating the sam old system that brings about the problems we face today, and creates pointless careers for people such as insurance, accounting, bond traders.  At the fundamental level we are misusing resources and human potential.  
 
 Think about it this way, let's say you and 2 other people are stuck on an island.  One person has a knife, the other has some flint, and you Pat have $100.  Now ask yourself what has REAL VALUE?  
 
All money even gold has no value.  Unless you are going to use gold for some kind of non economic reason.  
 
What I am saying is that in the future, we cannot be able to function on a money system and expect people/society to function in a more civilized way.  No way, not gonna happen.  ALso you fail to realize that the money system eventually fails no matter what.   I said earlier that People only have jobs because it has not been automated yet.  So over time when more and more people are not needed due to technology, where is their purchasing power going to come from?  You honestly think we are going to make pointless paper pushing jobs, just so someone can say I Have A Job?  Pleeze.  
 
The elite people you worry about would not be in power.  After major social breakdown of our current economic system the people will self correct themselves and realize politicians and bankers are NO GOOD.  
 
 
ANYONE CAN ROB YOU OF YOUR MONEY, BUT NO ONE CAN ROB YOU OF YOUR TIME AND EFFORT. 
 
 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Quote:
ANYONE CAN ROB YOU OF YOUR MONEY, BUT NO ONE CAN ROB YOU OF YOUR TIME AND EFFORT.  

Yes, someone can rob you of your time and effrort - the people who program your cards who determine what your time and effort is worth.

Money didn't create the crash.  Fiat money did.  There is a profound difference. One is the product of work, the other is a counterfeit product.  

You're barking up the wrong tree.

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
WOW, we have that now in the money system but you could be robbed and killed for your money or all your retirement money lost.    
 
I think you're barking up the wrong tree, and not thinking.  
 
 
 
 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Quote:

 WOW, we have that now in the money system but you could be robbed
and killed for your money or all your retirement money lost.     I
think you're barking up the wrong tree, and not thinking.     

Q1) Are you ever going to tell us who gets to program your cards?  

Q2) Have you even watched the Crash Course?

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Loved the quote from Einstein. Maybe you have got the problem identified if the problem is money (forced cooperation).

Do other species get cards too?

Don't get me wrong; what you are doing is brave and you are taking a lot of flack for it. We need more ideas. Blame gets us a dispirited consensus. 

Not old visions with new plans but new visions with no plans (after Daniel Quinn).

Don

_______________________________________________

7 billion people can be wrong, very wrong

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
Yes I have watched the crash course.  As for the cards, well you yourself will program it.  You will put your skill/education level and other important info.  And if you end up doing medical, farming, or whatever, you will have access to food, clothing, shelter and so on.  You will also build up vacation time, or sick time and retirement.  Although retirement would work differently.  
 
As for our money system, I am aware of all the arguments of fiat vs. gold, and how gold is king.  Keeps government small and makes a higher standard of living for people, but like I said this is for the future generations to consider.  We are always emerging, From Barter to gold, to fiat, as population grows so does our way of thinking.  Einstein summed it up best:  "NO PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED WITH THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CREATED IT" 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

I get to program my own card???

OK, let's say I'm a carpenter.  What, do I get to tell the card how every door I produce is worth whatever much food, drink, vacation time, medical care I want?

How much sense does that make?

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
It's my favorite quote, I use it every time I debate someone about this very topic.  I know money is the problem.  We waste to much time, resources, human potential on the money system.  It's gonna have to go eventually.  I am just suggesting a solution or baby steps until our civilization can function on a pure resource based economy.  Thanks Don.
 
~Joe 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
NO, that is not how vision it.  Your skill/education level would put you to work on housing developments.  The local computer database you inform you of how many doors would be needed in a certain area and it has decided that you and 50 other men are qualified to do such work.  Then as long as you do your work, then you can have your access to a higher standard of living.  Under a money system you would worry about being unemployed after your job is done, then if you lost your job, then no power for your house because you would be behind on your bills and so on.  Under the card system, if you work then you will have less worries as opposed to the problems under a money system.  
 
It's all about solving future problems with new ways of thinking and doing things.  Why try to solve the problems of 2030 with a money system, knowing that the same cycle will repeat.  It's like trying to solve future TRANSPORTATION problems with the old transportation system of the 1800's it does not work. 
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
Well PAT, you program your own card now in a way.  You Program a RESUME right?  or create one.   
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

Quote:
  Your skill/education level would put you to work on housing
developments.  The local computer database you inform you of how many
doors would be needed
in a certain area and it has decided that you and
50 other men are qualified to do such work.  Then as long as you do your work, then you can have your access to a higher standard of living

I will ask this question a third and final time:   Who writes the formula that determines how much value my doors are worth????  The computer doesn't program itself.  Who does program it??

I don't see how this would prevent unemployment.  What if 50 doors are needed but there are 100 carpenters who could together make 200 doors?  What if nobody needs what you happen to be good at because there is an oversupply in the market?

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)

JK121 wrote:
Yes I have watched the crash course.  As for the cards, well you yourself will program it.  You will put your skill/education level and other important info.  And if you end up doing medical, farming, or whatever, you will have access to food, clothing, shelter and so on.  You will also build up vacation time, or sick time and retirement.  Although retirement would work differently.  
As for our money system, I am aware of all the arguments of fiat vs. gold, and how gold is king.  Keeps government small and makes a higher standard of living for people, but like I said this is for the future generations to consider.  We are always emerging, From Barter to gold, to fiat, as population grows so does our way of thinking.  Einstein summed it up best:  "NO PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED WITH THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CREATED IT" 

Joe,

Since you threw the "straw man" out there for comment, you have to take the lumps. Yell (ouch!)

Your concept, like so many others that have been suggested, fails due to a reality check. You, and all the others, assume an altruistic society will magically develop. Never has - never will. Humans ain't wired that way, son!

However, kudo's for trying to come up with an alternative - new idea's are always welcome here, even if they do get battered about a bit.  Wink

BTW, these comment blocks include a built-in spell-checker when you're replying. Takes moments to use.

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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
 
If nobody need what you can provide, then you can go to education centers to better yourself to obtain a job.  
 
As for programming, if it's in the system that a certain development needs 50 or 100 doors and you have provided information that with your skill level you can create 4 doors a day a calculation would be printed out that would tell you how long it should take you to finish your project.  As long as you are pretty close to the scheduling you will be able to provide for yourself and family.  Hope that clears that up. 
 
As for the other people who are not needed, they can go to the education centers and obtain greater knowledge for a better job.  Being in school would allow you access to things too, but you would also have to do some low grade job until you want whatever it is that you are studying.   
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Re: Possible future Solution 2.0 (with paragraphs)
First off I think you need a reality check.  No society just pops up.  It takes time.  All people need a reality check and realize that you will not be able to solve future problems with this old system of money specially with increased population.  LOL thanks for the spell check thing.    

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