Not feeling it

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No_Fiat's picture
No_Fiat
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Not feeling it

From reading the posts o this forum for the past couple of weeks now. I feel that most people do not comprehend the disastrous effect a monetary collapse would have on a nation or world of people. Worrying about how much you would need to ride it out is ludicrous for the bottom 80% of people.

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 Every country that has had

Every country that has had a significant collapse has ridden it out.  I agree that this time it could be global and this could cause other issues,  but I don't think I see excatly what you mean.  Explain please?  Are you operating on the whole collapse of civilization scenario?  I don't thikn a monetary collpase alone would cause that.

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 I would also like to see

I would also like to see an explaination as well.  I'm just wondering how long everyone would have to be able to sustain through a situation where an economic collapase happens and riding it out.  3, 6, 8, 12 months?

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to justlearing

No one can give you an exact figure as to how long to prepare for, as things will probably be different in different locations - both in the USA and world-wide. Understand that by SHTF I can mean peak oil causing long-term, stair-stepping down into lower standards of living--MUCH lower--or a sudden event such as a global currency crash, a pandemic, or even a meteor strike or a localized EMP. Examples:

SHTF in Arizona vs. Maine? Different neighbors, different climate challenges.

SHTF in South Africa vs. Japan? One is pretty much race homogenous, the other deeply racially divided still.

SHTF in the Australian outback as opposed to Hong Kong? Population density comes into play.

In some sort of sudden onset catastrophe, similar to the last bits of water multiplying and filling the stadium in Dr. Martenson's example, my underststaning is that there is probably a bit of time (36 hours) to get out of Dodge with your bugout bag to a secure, low-population location. If you cannot do that or are in your bugout location already, how long things are dicey will depend on a number of factors. Are you near (or in) a high-population density area? Are you part of a real community? Does your area have access to water? Can you grow food in that climate, and is there arable land that has not been paved over or devloped? Is there a reason for your area to be raided and a nearby source of raiders? Can you defend yourself from the raiders, if they come? (Part of the reason I moved to a not-too-densely inhabited part of the South is arable land, lots of farms, and an extremely armed populace that is coopertive and incredibly kind to their neighbors. I think we will pull togther, overall.)

At any rate, I believe that hunkering down and waiting for the insanity that will occur when people realize that there will not be food deliveries, medicines, clean water or electricty--or law enforcement--could take a while. Preparing for that is the easy part. But then comes afterward. Once the catastrophe is over, that is when the new normal really takes ahold for the survivors, I'm afraid that what are now "alternative, or old-fashioned means" of getting our needs met will be mosly all there is.

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financial

I am not sure how to prepare for a planetoid collision.  I am trying to prepare for a financial collapse.  My guess, and it is a guess, is in America we will grind down slowly for a few more years - 1 or 2.  Along that path there will be "events" that will shake things up.  But they will pass and the slow grind down will continue.  At some point along that road some event will occur that will be the tipping point.  The tipping point may well be some event that results in the majority of the population deciding that the government is not going to be able to save them.  At that point things will happen fast.  A fairly large percentage of people will be totally unprepared.  These people, especially those who currently depend on the government for food and housing, are going to become very angry and desperate.  That is when the craziness will start.  The military will be mobilized to control the population.  I don't think the craziness will go on for a long time - maybe a year maybe 6 months maybe 2 months.  By then we will have devised a new system (one way or another) and be in the process of implementing it.

If you currently live in a city you need to prepare for an escape and a place to escape to.  Large complex logistics systems enable cities to operate.  If the logistic system become impaired by even 25% people will start getting crazy in cities.  You are going to need to have enough fuel for a vehicle (with sta-bil in it and rotate it every few months) to escape and a reliable vehicle - preferably a 4 wheel drive.  You will need one or more weapons in case people along the way decide they want your vehicle.  The place you are going to escape to needs to be stocked and ready.  I know it sounds like a doomsday gig but it is what it is.

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Riding it out not an option

Riding out is not an option anymore.  Another year or two is not going to make the national debt disappear. It is going to take alot more than just reducing it. It must be totally eliminated and replaced with an interest free monetary system tht is handled by the congress according to the original intent of the constitution. Anything else is just a bandaid solution. It just kicks the can down the road.

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I understand how you feel.

I understand how you feel. Stage 5 I think. It gets better.

The Six Stages of Awareness - Oct 8, 2008 ... - Chris Martenson

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Questions I asked myself

Since we have no way of knowing if or when 'something' will happen to change our way of life, I asked myself these questions:

1.  How long will I be able to eat and provide meals for my family if grocery stores are closed?

2.  How long will I have water to drink if the faucet does not work?

3.  If there is no electricity, how will I cook, bathe, keep my family warm or cool?

4.  If one of us gets ill, do I have the necessities or skill to care for them?

5.  If the banks & atms close, how much cash can I afford to keep at home?  How will I pay my bills?  

6.  If hoards of gangs are a possibiliy, how am I going to protect my family & property?  

If you think about ways to help yourself to be completely self-sustainable, depending on your location, your financial situation, etc. that will help guide you to action.

I started out (about a year ago) by buying a few extra canned goods/water jugs every time I went to the grocery store.  Now I have nice little stash.  

As far as thinking about the collapse of the financial system, instead of hoarding cash, I like the idea taking that cash and investing it in a little silver or gold.  I've taken what little I had left in my 401k, cashed it out, took the penalty hit, bought some silver and gold - and I am really happy with that decision.

The more you are able to provide the basic necessities for yourself and your family...the less cash on hand you will need if/when the shtf. imho I've worked really hard to pay off any debts and taken 'baby steps' on my preps.  I have much to do still, but I do what I can when I can.  

Whether someone falls in the 80% or 20%, you can still be prepared if you choose.  The difference is taking baby steps to prep or going all in if you have a bunch of dollars.  It would be nice to go all in, but, me, I am taking baby steps   And it's coming along quite nicely!

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retha wrote:  Since we have

retha wrote:

Since we have no way of knowing if or when 'something' will happen to change our way of life, I asked myself these questions:

1.  How long will I be able to eat and provide meals for my family if grocery stores are closed?

2.  How long will I have water to drink if the faucet does not work?

3.  If there is no electricity, how will I cook, bathe, keep my family warm or cool?

4.  If one of us gets ill, do I have the necessities or skill to care for them?

5.  If the banks & atms close, how much cash can I afford to keep at home?  How will I pay my bills?  

6.  If hoards of gangs are a possibiliy, how am I going to protect my family & property?  

If you think about ways to help yourself to be completely self-sustainable, depending on your location, your financial situation, etc. that will help guide you to action.

I started out (about a year ago) by buying a few extra canned goods/water jugs every time I went to the grocery store.  Now I have nice little stash.  

As far as thinking about the collapse of the financial system, instead of hoarding cash, I like the idea taking that cash and investing it in a little silver or gold.  I've taken what little I had left in my 401k, cashed it out, took the penalty hit, bought some silver and gold - and I am really happy with that decision.

The more you are able to provide the basic necessities for yourself and your family...the less cash on hand you will need if/when the shtf. imho I've worked really hard to pay off any debts and taken 'baby steps' on my preps.  I have much to do still, but I do what I can when I can.  

Whether someone falls in the 80% or 20%, you can still be prepared if you choose.  The difference is taking baby steps to prep or going all in if you have a bunch of dollars.  It would be nice to go all in, but, me, I am taking baby steps   And it's coming along quite nicely!

The steps you are taking are well calculated but do not take into account desperate people looting and robbing those who will have.

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Point 6

No_Fiat,

What about point six?
None of the points were elaborated on too much, but it looks like she's considered it.
Quite frankly, if you want to plan for violent gangs on your own, or amongst just your family, read "The Road".
That's how you'll be living.

If you can't count on community or a extended family/crew - you'll be in some serious problems.

Cheers,

Aaron

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Yes, point 6!

I have read The Road!  Scary stuff!

Plus, I have spent much time here.... http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/definitive-firearms-thread/12654

I thought I would keep it simple since many of the details Chris has provided as a guideline in the the What Should I Do? area.  Generally, if everyone can ask themselves some basic questions, much of what they are concerned about will work out when those questions are answered.  Since everyone's situations are different, what I may need to do most likely is different for someone else...as safewrite noted in her post.

Christmas this year will consist of a little iron & ammo...plus a chl class and lots of practice, of course!  

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No_Fiat wrote:Riding out is

No_Fiat wrote:

Riding out is not an option anymore.  Another year or two is not going to make the national debt disappear. It is going to take alot more than just reducing it. It must be totally eliminated and replaced with an interest free monetary system tht is handled by the congress according to the original intent of the constitution. Anything else is just a bandaid solution. It just kicks the can down the road.

Theres nothing wrong with capitalism.  In fact, its the best system that functions in the real world.  Its a fractional reserve, credit based economy with no underpinning (gold standard, silver standard - whatever) that produces what we have now.  But it doesn't matter - this baby will lock up, make chapter 56 in a history book someday as kids read it and wonder how retarded our current society was....as they blissfully ignore likely the same or near similar issues facing their generation.  Riding it out  - living - is your only option.  You say that prepping for the bottom 80% is useless, thats nonsense but correct also (imho) in that most likely the trouble I expect will come from that same demographic.  After all, many are living a life most of us would consider to be vaguely similar to what we are prepping for.  They know beatings, violence, hunger, reward/punishment - its like a "gang starter kit".  Just add opportunity - and Ben's doing his best.  I think there are just too many scenarios and situations to consider.  We all post from our view and speculate on another or two.  I mean, in a dynamic like this, how do you factor in the likely possibility of a middle eastern nuclear event, a nut in North Korea (and the white house), rare earth minerals, climatic events, hyperinflation, wars, famine, etc., etc. - I can't, you can't.  But to suggest that not even trying is a solution....but you didn't, did you?  So what do you suggest for the "bottom 80%" like me.  Cause I'll take 1000 rounds of ammo over some Apple Igadget anyday.  What do you think?

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No_Fiat wrote:  The steps

No_Fiat wrote:

The steps you are taking are well calculated but do not take into account desperate people looting and robbing those who will have.

Fiat,

Don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to have already concluded what the future holds. With all due respect, that is simply not possibile.

But, if you think roving gangs are a foregone conclusion, I would offer up "Lights Out" by halffast. In it, you will find the answer to mutant zombie bikers... strong community.

Perhaps ridding yourself of all this fear will help you see your options more clearly. Easier said than done, I know, but worth the effort all the same.

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Reply to optimist

Ready wrote:

No_Fiat wrote:

The steps you are taking are well calculated but do not take into account desperate people looting and robbing those who will have.

Fiat,

Don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to have already concluded what the future holds. With all due respect, that is simply not possibile.

But, if you think roving gangs are a foregone conclusion, I would offer up "Lights Out" by halffast. In it, you will find the answer to mutant zombie bikers... strong community.

Perhaps ridding yourself of all this fear will help you see your options more clearly. Easier said than done, I know, but worth the effort all the same.

Like I said I do not see any posting suggesting real solutions to the real problems. If a bucket of water has a hole that is leaking water and no one fixes it, it will run dry. Not rocket science people. Simple natural intelligence.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” 

Albert Einstein

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Not rocket science

Aaron Moyer wrote:

No_Fiat,

What about point six?
None of the points were elaborated on too much, but it looks like she's considered it.
Quite frankly, if you want to plan for violent gangs on your own, or amongst just your family, read "The Road".
That's how you'll be living.

If you can't count on community or a extended family/crew - you'll be in some serious problems.

Cheers,

Aaron

Like I said it's not rocket science. No one plans anything! it happens out of neccesity for survival. No one has stated a solution to the root problem or will even acknowledge it. Fiat monetary system caused this problem and fractional reserve banking compounded it, but no one so far on this forum has showed any agreement with me. I propose abolishing the federal reserve and changing how banks handle creating money through fractional reserve banking.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” 

Albert Einstein

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Not Rocket Science

No_Fiat,

Man, the condescention is really not appreciated.

Just because no one is willing to share the details of their plans with you doesn't mean no one is doing anything.

So, are you just mad because no one is "agreeing" with you? Because if so, I suggest you look at your browser and take note of the website you're on. CM.com.
I think almost all of us agree with you.

As to your proposal, I propose we build a perpetual motion machine, take a rocketship to distant planets and learn to live in balance with our ecosystems. Proposals are not actionable plans, and even if you have actionable plans, you're fighting cultural persistence and momentum that won't allow things to just turn on a dime.

Albert Einstein said a lot of stuff that was pretty stupid.
Typecasting the entire rest of the planet as a bunch of idiots is one of them.
Smart people are not exempt from decency, and I'd rebut with Geothe;

"Treat a man as he is, he will remain so. Treat a man the way he can be and ought to be, and he will become as he can be and should be."

If Einstein had wisdom, in addition to intelligence, he perhaps could have made more of an impact in this way.

Many here are no longer planning because they've already made tremendous strides and are now comfortable with their level of sustainability, or at a minimum are no longer concerning themselves with things that are, in my estimation, beyond repair.

Cheers,

Aaron

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reply to pessimist

No_Fiat wrote:

Like I said I do not see any posting suggesting real solutions to the real problems. If a bucket of water has a hole that is leaking water and no one fixes it, it will run dry. Not rocket science people. Simple natural intelligence.

What you seem to be unable or unwilling to grasp is the difference between a problem and a predicament.

Good luck with all that pent up anger. I hope it treats you much better than most other people of simple intelligence. You seem to think that only you have a clear vision and an answer, yet with the way you approach it, you are on your own. Seems to me all this bluster is about as effective at real change as OWS.

Find a way to deal with the anger, then we can talk about potential action items like adults.

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IMHO

There are more than a few that did not fare so well on the anger stage and are no longer on this  blog site .   Not sure they can even come back and read what others post because they had not control over their emotional tongue .  Feeling are hurt and trust and bond is broken .  It might help you to go back and see the major blow ups.. maybe ?  

   We do seem to go over and over the same things time and time again .  Someone will have a lightbulb moment and others are not ready to hear it  or shoot it down  with why it would never work .  Many talk but not do .  Some see things as a solution  others come from another direction .

There are things we can not control and things we can . Start with yourself . Move to your innercircle of family and friends . Then move on to community .  You can not skip ahead in the plans or the foundation is not there . Live buy example .. as more lessons are caught than taught .

Be aware that the frustrations come in waves .. you will be excited that your preps are coming along when something comes together as planned the  panic when the next step fails .

  I hope you have a more peaceful day .    Not everyone will make it .  You can not save everyone  you can  only hope to be one ready to start over when the dust settles .  IMHO  

IMHO   , is all any of us  have here really .

FM 

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No_Fiat wrote: Fiat monetary

No_Fiat wrote:

Fiat monetary system caused this problem and fractional reserve banking compounded it, but no one so far on this forum has showed any agreement with me. I propose abolishing the federal reserve and changing how banks handle creating money through fractional reserve banking.

Fiat,

Read the friendly archives.  I suggest starting with the posts of DrKirbyLuv and proceeding from there.  The issue of the Fed, fractional reserve banking, etc., has been addressed to the nth degree.  What you take for stupidity is simply disinterest in rehashing a subject area that has been hashed to the max.  We've been there and done that.

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ao wrote: No_Fiat

ao wrote:

No_Fiat wrote:

Fiat monetary system caused this problem and fractional reserve banking compounded it, but no one so far on this forum has showed any agreement with me. I propose abolishing the federal reserve and changing how banks handle creating money through fractional reserve banking.

Fiat,

Read the friendly archives.  I suggest starting with the posts of DrKirbyLuv and proceeding from there.  The issue of the Fed, fractional reserve banking, etc., has been addressed to the nth degree.  What you take for stupidity is simply disinterest in rehashing a subject area that has been hashed to the max.  We've been there and done that.

So! what conclusion has your nth degree come up with as a solution to reverse the downward spiral.  You say you have been there and done that where have you been and what have you done? what conclusive plan have you put into motion for the entire country to pursue.

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Flagged

No_Fiat,

FWIW, I've flagged your post.

You're being argumentative, confrontational, IGNORING good advice (eg - Search function) and you're not responding to dialog.
If you have a purpose other than just trolling, I hope you get to it soon.
People here are being more than civil.

To answer your question - There IS NO SOLUTION.
The solution is community, individual/family resilience and preparation.

Cheers,

Aaron

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No Fiat

Quote:
You're being argumentative, confrontational, IGNORING good advice (eg - Search function) and you're not responding to dialog.

It appears that way to me as well, No Fiat.  What exactly do you want, or expect, to get from those who are answering you?  Other users are offering you what they have to offer.  If you have constructive suggestions for something concrete that people should do right now, I'm sure the community will be all ears.

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Moderator Jason

Moderator Jason wrote:

Quote:
You're being argumentative, confrontational, IGNORING good advice (eg - Search function) and you're not responding to dialog.

It appears that way to me as well, No Fiat.  What exactly do you want, or expect, to get from those who are answering you?  Other users are offering you what they have to offer.  If you have constructive suggestions for something concrete that people should do right now, I'm sure the community will be all ears.

I want the people to understand that the Federal Reserve System started the ball rolling on a destructive path for the monetary system this nation had which was a true supply and demand system. They also must understand that in the past 97 years there was a slow but determined plan to erode and complicate the understanding of what they were doing to bring us to a 100% fiat monetary system. President Nixon completed the task in the spring of 1971, when he took us off the last of the gold standard we had left. If you trace what has happened since 1971 through the present you will see for yourself how drastic the economy started to dive. As an example I remember the BPI (Base Price Index) was based on the year 1967, now last I check the BPI is based on the year 1985. What I would like people to do is started getting together and demand the Federal Reserve System be abolished and demand congress do their job as per the original constitution Article 1, section 8, outlined.

I know who is againest this and that is the few people who managed to benefit from this at the expense of the many are going to fight it tooth and nail to stop it.

I want all americans to have a system under which they have a fair chance to make a living. There will be some who will always be a problem on society. But the fiat monetary system should not be a problem for those who desire to strive in a non explotive, fair cooperative manner with their country men to build a better life for themselves.

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No_Fiat wrote: Moderator

No_Fiat wrote:

Moderator Jason wrote:

Quote:
You're being argumentative, confrontational, IGNORING good advice (eg - Search function) and you're not responding to dialog.

It appears that way to me as well, No Fiat.  What exactly do you want, or expect, to get from those who are answering you?  Other users are offering you what they have to offer.  If you have constructive suggestions for something concrete that people should do right now, I'm sure the community will be all ears.

I want the people to understand that the Federal Reserve System started the ball rolling on a destructive path for the monetary system this nation had which was a true supply and demand system. They also must understand that in the past 97 years there was a slow but determined plan to erode and complicate the understanding of what they were doing to bring us to a 100% fiat monetary system. President Nixon completed the task in the spring of 1971, when he took us off the last of the gold standard we had left. If you trace what has happened since 1971 through the present you will see for yourself how drastic the economy started to dive. As an example I remember the BPI (Base Price Index) was based on the year 1967, now last I check the BPI is based on the year 1985. What I would like people to do is started getting together and demand the Federal Reserve System be abolished and demand congress do their job as per the original constitution Article 1, section 8, outlined.

I know who is againest this and that is the few people who managed to benefit from this at the expense of the many are going to fight it tooth and nail to stop it.

I want all americans to have a system under which they have a fair chance to make a living. There will be some who will always be a problem on society. But the fiat monetary system should not be a problem for those who desire to strive in a non explotive, fair cooperative manner with their country men to build a better life for themselves.

I think we all understand the jist of what you are saying.

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we get it, we get it

We've gotten it for a long, long time. That's why we are here. Please look at the archives - use the internal Google search bar in the upper right of the top of all CM screens and look for things like "end the fed" or "fiat currency" in quotes so you get the phrase. You're preaching to the choir, No Fiat.

Some of us might disagree on whether the problem is coming from the government side (as the Tea Party members here like to assert) or the banker side (as the OWS members here like to assert) (PS - it's both). We might also disagree on the solutions, as far as to how a new system might work -  we've been talking about that for YEARS, too.

But we all agree on the problems of fiat currency and the Federal Reserve and have ample evidence in the archives to prove it. Please stop trying to wake us up with a virtual cold water bath when we are all wide awake to start with.

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amen

safewrite wrote:

We've gotten it for a long, long time. That's why we are here. Please look at the archives - use the internal Google search bar in the upper right of the top of all CM screens and look for things like "end the fed" or "fiat currency" in quotes so you get the phrase. You're preaching to the choir, No Fiat.

Some of us might disagree on whether the problem is coming from the government side (as the Tea Party members here like to assert) or the banker side (as the OWS members here like to assert) (PS - it's both). We might also disagree on the solutions, as far as to how a new system might work -  we've been talking about that for YEARS, too.

But we all agree on the problems of fiat currency and the Federal Reserve and have ample evidence in the archives to prove it. Please stop trying to wake us up with a virtual cold water bath when we are all wide awake to start with.

Hallelujah!  Well stated Safewrite!

Yes, No Fiat, we understand.

If you check the archives, you might find that most of us probably get it better than you do.

We know about Jekyll Island, Bretton Woods, and Nixon's actions.  We know about the goldsmiths, Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, Cecil Rhodes, JPMorgan, etc.  We understand the problems with the various types of monetary systems and economic systems and especially the problems with a central banking system, fractional reserve banking, and fiat currency.  We know about the military/industrial complex, financial/ insurance complex, pharmaceutical/medical complex, etc.  We've read The Creature from Jekyll Island, The Web of Debt, Tragedy and Hope, War is a Racket, Confessions of an Economic Hitman, Free Lunch, and countless others.  We've watch the videos on the Money Masters, the Round Table, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission, Edward Bernays, Inside Job, Capital Crimes, Invisible Empire, and many, many others.  We've listened to Sinclair, Schiff, Faber, McAlvany, Guarino, etc., etc.  We know about Elliot waves, Kondratieff cycles, generational cycles, The Fourth Turning, This Time It's Different, etc.  We know about Weimar Germany, Argentina, Zimbabwe, and others.   We know about other things that can't be mentioned here due to forum rules.  

We've had posters in our midst like Damien Vrabel who probably understands the situation from not only an economic, financial, political, geopolitical, psychological, and emotional level but also from a spiritual level better than almost anyone out there.

We've lobbied our representatives, written letters to the editors, gone to townhall meetings, attended protests, met with our social and political circles, spoken individually and in groups with every relative and friend on the issue until they're sick of hearing about it, gotten out of debt, moved our money out of big banks to credit unions, used cash instead of credit cards, put money into precious metals rather than Wall Street cons, etc., etc.

So go read the archives, see what you can learn, come back, and then we can have a polite and informed discussion.

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Posts: 422
Thank you for a wonderful website

I have to take a moment here to say how much I appreciate the members of this site and the staff  for the ability to take on the difficult task of dealing with the human emotion and reaction that comes with confronting the real problems we all face and maintain a very respectful yet firm and responsible level of communication.

You set an example of one of the key aspects needed to develop community resilience and a sane approach to dealing with our predicament. Thank you.

Coop

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 2769
ckessel wrote: I have to

ckessel wrote:

I have to take a moment here to say how much I appreciate the members of this site and the staff  for the ability to take on the difficult task of dealing with the human emotion and reaction that comes with confronting the real problems we all face and maintain a very respectful yet firm and responsible level of communication.

You set an example of one of the key aspects needed to develop community resilience and a sane approach to dealing with our predicament. Thank you.

Coop

+1

land2341's picture
land2341
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 20 2009
Posts: 402
"Shaking impotent rage"

ckessel wrote:

I have to take a moment here to say how much I appreciate the members of this site and the staff  for the ability to take on the difficult task of dealing with the human emotion and reaction that comes with confronting the real problems we all face and maintain a very respectful yet firm and responsible level of communication.

You set an example of one of the key aspects needed to develop community resilience and a sane approach to dealing with our predicament. Thank you.

Coop

This.  I think I titled my post "Shaking impotent rage" when I posted a while back about how angry I was and how frustrated I was with the world.  But, I understood then that I was speaking to people who DID get it and who understood my rage.  I think No_Fiat might be aiming at the wrong people by accident.

The funny thing is that I reread this post and everyone was exceedingly kind when No_Fiat was never clear what he wanted or meant up until s/he started being angry with us....

Its been a while now and I started this before the crash of 08.  The anger still comes and goes in waves.  Now I am raging at the fact that the Tea Partiers and the OWsers can't recognize what safewrite said - its both.  They should be working together instead of letting Faux news keep them fighting each other.

Don't fight us here No_Fiat,  we're on your side.

No_Fiat's picture
No_Fiat
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2011
Posts: 104
 I have been fighting this

I have been fighting this problem with the monetary system by myself so long it felt as though I were alone on this. I want to thank everyone on this forum for their patience and understanding. I am going to go through the entire crash course before making anymore posts in frustration.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 914
No_Fiat wrote:I am going to

No_Fiat wrote:
I am going to go through the entire crash course before making anymore posts in frustration.

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