Moving from California...Any suggestion for other states?

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Cali move?

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

YoungEntrepreneur wrote:

Yeah, DIAP contributed some interesting thoughts. Never heard of that dismal swamp area/thing. Will need to look into that.

Just curious, what kinds of subjects should one not bring up in the south/southeast? Obviously, growing up in CA we're allot more open to different things and perspectives, which I think is good more often than not. However, CA goes way overboard with much of it.

I'm definitely interested in exploring the Carolinas but have not given Virginia much thought despite hearing some good things about it.

YE -

Right now the Dismal Swamp is burning because of a lightning strike on 4 August.  Perfectly good waste of peat that could be better used for drying germinated barley that would then be rendered into, whisk...I mean biofuel additive.

What not to bring up? 

1. If anyone in the crowd has a Confederate flag tattooed on his or her neck,  under no circumstances should you bring up "The War of Northern Aggression"

Actually, you probably shouldn't talk to anyone, anywhere with a visible tattoo on their neck.....

2.  If you are anywhere near Charlottesville, you should not bring up college football - they don't know what it is.  Scott Stadium at UVA is a tornado shelter for the city - as no touchdowns will ever occur there.

3.  If you are anywhere near Blacksburg, you should not bring up "Mr. Jefferson's" university.  Unless you are going to talk about head to head results from item 2 above.

YE,

Heed Dogs advice. I transplanted to NC going on 2 years ago (coastal Carolina - there is a difference).

I am a "Yankee" and am told so every day. Since I bought a house, I am a "D@mn - Yankee". I keep telling them that I am a Red Sox fan and we hate the Yankees TOO!... The joke gets lost on the demographic Dogs pointed out above.

Let me tell you, I have been in Southern Cali and some of the worst days there for heat and humidity (June Gloom comes to mind) pales in comparison to the heat and humidity in Coastal Carolina. A/C is NOT an option and no amount of "design" can work around it. I am talking about A/C weather from May till almost mid-October. The problem is, there is no night-time let up of the humidity where one can open the windows and get fresh air.

The growing season is longer here (one reason I moved) however, the heat sucks the life out of everything and irrigation is required to obtain any decent yield. The winters have snowed for the past two although what passes for snow here, wouldn't count in New England, but it does wreck the growing season. Collards and Okra grow over the winter (I think) but I have not acquired a taste for either... nor will I. This year I am going to try a small green house and see how that goes. There is NOTHING cosmopolitan about Eastern Carolina. It is a far drive to anything, and there is no public transportation.

New Hampshire is “OK” but as has been said before, the growing season is wicked short. Summers are mild in comparison, but winters are HARSH - and they never know when to end. Often snow is on the ground from late October till March. Freezing temps from september till May. Being that far north and east (near the beginning of the eastern time zone) the winter days are really short. Rhode Island is broke, Connecticut is too close to “the city,” Massachusetts has become a huge nanny state, and Vermont... well I know little about Vermont except they have good cheese.

I have come to the conclusion, you have to pick your poison, live where it makes you happy FIRST - if that means family, your support network etc. then that is the “best place” to live. As Chris says, build network and community.

My only absolute advice would be, stay away from major urban areas, I am not sure if two hours is far enough away. Those who are smart will “wander” out to find (take) what they want. I think the congestion of the Northeast will be something to watch.

I have family in New England and at first, I discounted the importance of family and friends network (even if they do think we are crazy). It is hard to relocate to a culturally different area (see Dogs advice above) unless you have some ties to the area.

Good Luck!

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Natural Disasters?

I haven't seen any discussion on natural disasters, and areas that are prone to them. In a post-peak oil world, can California rebuild infrastructure caused by earthquakes/wildfires/floods? How about the Gulf Coast/Southeast/East Coast with hurricanes? Or the midwest/plains with tornadoes/floods?

FWIW, my requirements on a place to live:

Areas with good soil

Areas with plenty of water

Areas with working farms

Areas that are heavily forested

Areas with little to no threat of natural disasters

Areas away from mega-cities, but more towards the small town settings

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whew

Whew  .. we like wide open spaces without  bumping into people when we turn around      Clean air and clean water  .   We kinda  like to know who our neighbors are and what their background is  LOL  If they are a hard worker or puffed  full of air .    

Really not expecting a mass exodus  to here when people start realizing we have been  down a path of greed and  materialistic  ways that  got everything off kilter ....becaus It is hard work out here.

  Sad thing is  do we have a few places where people are stacked up on top of each other out here too,  but that leaves more room for the rest of us LOL .      We can go into the city if we want to but for the life of me I do not see why one would want to .

YE ,  I hope you find some place to set up fairly soon .  Good Luck .

FM 

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joemanc

joemanc wrote:

I haven't seen any discussion on natural disasters, and areas that are prone to them. In a post-peak oil world, can California rebuild infrastructure caused by earthquakes/wildfires/floods? How about the Gulf Coast/Southeast/East Coast with hurricanes? Or the midwest/plains with tornadoes/floods?

FWIW, my requirements on a place to live:

Areas with good soil

Areas with plenty of water

Areas with working farms

Areas that are heavily forested

Areas with little to no threat of natural disasters

Areas away from mega-cities, but more towards the small town settings

You've just described where I live.  Western NY has perhaps the mildest climate I've seen anywhere.  We are in lake effect area so get some snow in the winter, but that's it.  Lake Erie keeps the area a bit cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.  Still lots of agriculture around here, including significantly, a fair sized Amish community.  The areas that are no longer in ag are forested.  Sustainable woodlotseverywhere with mixed hardwoods.  Plenty of water for both wells and municipal supplies.  Buffalo is a city on the wane.  It was once the 9th largest city in the country, but has been losing population since the 50's when the Welland Canal and St. Lawrence Seaway were completed, and the "rust belt" started declining.  I heard recently that it is now the third poorest city in the country.  It has a decent international airport, good museums, a good symphony orchestra, some wonderful architecture and several colleges, including UB, a major university that is one of the three anchors of the SUNY system.

So, the city has many of the features of a large city without the overcrowding.  I live about an hour south of the city and the suburbs end well short of us.  Economically, geographically and, to some extent, culturally think Appalachia.  The big downside is poverty...everywhere.  The upside to that downside is that if we didn't have media connections to everywhere, we wouldn't have realized there was a recession the last few years.  Mixed blessing to be sure.

Of course, the other downsides are that NYS is still overtaxed and overregulated.  And, depending on what county you're in, handgun permits may be difficult and/or time consuming to get.  NY has no reciprocal agreements with other states.

Doug

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Virginia

are you all from Virginia OK ?    The quake must have been a surprise !    We are going to have strange weather patturns until the end of Sept . I do believe.

FM 

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Colorado

YE, we left inland Socal for Northern Colorado almost four years ago. You'd like the weather, I think. First frost to last frost time is too long by half but season extension methods outside and starting plants inside goes a long way to fixing that. Sunny most of the time here, so winters are much more tolerable. Snows tend to come  in the fall and even more so in the spring, rather than winter. Natural disasters are not much of an issue if you stay close to the foothills (disrupts tornado formation). We're in the Fort Collins area and can highly recommend it for hiking, river-play, university culture, biking friendly, microbreweries and local music scene. Job market is patchy, but not an issue for you it sounds.
Whether you could make it sustainable depends on what your price range for land is. Land with water rights or a well is hard to find and  comes with a premium, but overall prices are much lower than in SoCal so you may find it doable. The plains to the east of us are much better suited for animal grazing than growing crops, due to hailstorms and grasshoppers and general low rainfall rates. If I had the money I think I'd be growing grass-fed cattle here.
We're about an hour from DIA up here, and much cheaper than around Boulder. If you have questions, feel free to msg me. Sometimes I forget to check back on threads I've posted to.

Sue

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Earthquakes, Fires, Hurricanes!!!!

Full Moon wrote:

are you all from Virginia OK ?    The quake must have been a surprise !    We are going to have strange weather patturns until the end of Sept . I do believe.

FM 

Epicenter is being reported by USGS near Mineral, VA about halfway between Richmond and Charlottesville.  5.9 - 6.0 magnitude.  We got a pretty good shake down in Virginia Beach but no reports of damage.

I need to amend my response to YE touting the benefits of Virginia.  The Great Dismal Swamp is on fire from a lightning strike earlier this month.  Hurricane Irene is bearing down and expected to make landfall in the Carolinas this weekend.

Now an earthquake....

Hey, at least the hurricane will put out the fire

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Earthquake in VA and CO today, how strange

Just saw FM's post and at first thought she'd made a mistake, as Trinidad Colo had an unusual and large earthquake this morning as well.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_18737351

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cycle

This may be hard to understand  but  Keep your bug out bags prepped and  ready we are going through a weird cycle  of meteors   .... the weather patterns and earthquakes will continue to be odd/intense   clear to the end of Sept.   Especially if we have solar flare activity or full moon .  If we have the two  together  OH BOY . 

  Nothing I can back up professionally  but just watching the sky . I know this sets me up to look like a fruit cake .  But please do not let your guard up  for a little while at least .

FM 

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DIA- you're a funny dude

Thanks for chiming in.

No place is perfect I guess. Lots to consider and weigh.

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Earthquakes???

And here in Northern California all is peaceful and quiet. I thought this was where a whole lotta shaken was to be goin on.   You are stealing our thunder!!

I'm thinking that the faults are being artificially supressed by our debt burden which is holding things together!!!

Coop

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Full Moon, you're right on weather patterns

I have listened to a few podcasts interviews (Jim Puplava's Financial News Hours on itunes is good one) with agricultural investors and weather forecast specialists and they predict many of the same things.

Some very interesting and problematic weather patterns aniticipated over the next couple of years or longer. Will cause issues with global communications, energy and crop yields (not to mention the magnified effects of natural disasters).

I'm totally onboard with much of your thoughts on that.

I think you said you're from Kansas. What are the biggest upsides and downsides to living there you think? Thanks.

YE

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Don't spill the beans Coop....

ckessel wrote:

And here in Northern California all is peaceful and quiet. I thought this was where a whole lotta shaken was to be goin on.   You are stealing our thunder!!

I'm thinking that the faults are being artificially supressed by our debt burden which is holding things together!!!

Coop

Everybody knows the debt is abiotic and will keep coming back all by itself.

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Hey SueSullivan from Colorado

Great that we can relate given that we're both from SoCal.

Colorado is actually very high on my list. Hear many wonderful things about the quality fo life there and has a relatively speaking a decent business atmosphere. 

I was recently looking at the Fort Collins area. Smack dab in the middle betwene Denver and Cheyenne, WY where I may incorporate.

I actually would look forward to the changing seasons and actually prefer things a little on the colder side as opposed to too hot (especially if that is combined with high humidity). My body temperature always runs warm so I can tolerate cold much better than heat. In fact. I think my body responds better to the cold. I actually feel better in tolerable cold weather. Obviously, extreme cold is nobody's friend.

Would definitely explore the greenhouse and vertical farming methods during winters.

I'd plan to buy a piece of land large enough to do different things with it and hire local labor to help me do it. I would likely even build employee housing on my property as a perk. Pay them a reasonable wage plus food and shelter. No way am I doing this all alone. Just need to make sure I can afford the equipment, tools, technology and support I may need.

I can deal with dry snow and sunny days for sure. What I can't stand is constant severe snow storms or persistent rain for too long a period. The outdoor lifestyle there sounds just up my alley.

Don't care for beer and don't need a job.

Probably not the best weather or soil for farming though.

Boulder is way too expensive but once your an hour or more away from the major cities I think things should not be too bad. Nothing like here in L.A.. In the neighborhood that I live in $1.5M is a starter home or fixer upper. Ridiculous. Not much for your money that's for sure. The real estate in much of SoCal still has a long way to fall  before it makes sense.

I'll definitely take you up on your offer to PM you. Very interested in Colorado, especially the area bordering Wyoming. Both states are high on my lists (CO for residing and WY for incorporating). Thanks.

YE

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truly is hard

It truly is hard to make such a move unless you have yourself somewhat mentally prepared and contacts  to get you set up.     Just picking a place to land  is a big gamble .. one that could really cost you time and money .

   It is more about who ya know than what you know .

Pluses .   Great place to grow things  , garden,animals ,kids .  Definatly have 4 seasons .

big BUT ... it takes a while to fit in  and learn the customs .. might as well be another country compared to California .  Far far from the ocean ! And the wind blows here . 

Most people have a very hard time with  the adjustments  .  I can tell you that  the divorce rate for the military people shipped here is high .

This is the Gods honest truth ...  I was joking at first  but really if you do not have people here I would go elsewhere .  You will need a community .

FM 

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Dogs_In_A_Pile

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

ckessel wrote:

And here in Northern California all is peaceful and quiet. I thought this was where a whole lotta shaken was to be goin on.   You are stealing our thunder!!

I'm thinking that the faults are being artificially supressed by our debt burden which is holding things together!!!

Coop

Everybody knows the debt is abiotic and will keep coming back all by itself.

I thought it was credit that was abiotic cause debt remains fixed ........... ????

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ReL FM...truly is hard

Thanks. I was just curious.

There's a couple places that I am considering that may have a few things in common with Kansas. Kansas, per say, was not really on my radar but I figure if I live anywhere rural, kind of away from big cities there will be some similar challenges.

Whereever I go I will not have any family and unlikely any close friends to start with. I plan to rent for a while and feel out an area before coming to any conclusions on purchasing land. I'll make some trips there first of course.

I have an international perspective on many things and plan to live part-time overseas as well so I'm prepared to educate myself about an area, its people and cultural customs. Adapt to survive.

You're certainly right about the community factor. Before deciding on and moving to an area I'll try and develop some key contacts and make some friends for business or on like-minded message boards like this.

Thanks.

YE  

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Re: RNCarl on the Carolinas...

It's sooo funny how odd people are about stuff like that.

In Cali, we pretty much accept everyone and are quite open to listening to people's different perspectives and opinions. It's part of what makes it so interesting. It's actually cool to be different. However, like anything else, there are downsides to that as well. Some people don't get along and many people are scared or distant of each other.

Yeah, I'm probably staying away from most of the coastal communities. Texas and Florida had my attention at first but I think the heat and humidity may cancel those out. There are some other considerations of course. No point in saving on taxes and leading a sustainable lifestyle if you're miserable everytime you go outside.

Definitely not a fan of high heat and humidity. However, it is possible I spend my fall and winters in a place like that when the weather is actually not too bad, in some places even ideal.

Gotcha about the winters and growing seasons. I think the greenhouse idea is excellent if you can swing it. Put the right types of herbs, sauces and seasoning on your collards and okra and even that can taste just fine. I eat plenty of stuff now that I would hate to eat raw. Put some cayenne pepper, curry, tabasco sauce or a special onion, garlic and lemon sauce I make called "mojo" and it's all good. Just be creative.

The idea is to be away from the big city but not so far away that you can't make regular trips without extreme inconvenience. A 1.5-3 hour drive at most or a short plane/train ride. Ideally a comfortable car trip. Helps when buying and picking up stuff or going to see key business people, consultants or vendors.

NH has some things going for it but would rather steer clear of the whole NE with its extreme winters and congestion. For business, parts of the NE does have great advantages.

Very true, pick your poison. I'll likely need to create my own network where ever I go so that's a skill I need to cultivate.

You're right about staying away from major urban areas and 2 hours may not be far enough, depending on the place.

Will have to do my homework and certainly master network infiltration tactics. Thanks.

YE

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Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote: Full

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Full Moon wrote:

are you all from Virginia OK ?    The quake must have been a surprise !    We are going to have strange weather patturns until the end of Sept . I do believe.

FM 

Epicenter is being reported by USGS near Mineral, VA about halfway between Richmond and Charlottesville.  5.9 - 6.0 magnitude.  We got a pretty good shake down in Virginia Beach but no reports of damage.

I need to amend my response to YE touting the benefits of Virginia.  The Great Dismal Swamp is on fire from a lightning strike earlier this month.  Hurricane Irene is bearing down and expected to make landfall in the Carolinas this weekend.

Now an earthquake....

Hey, at least the hurricane will put out the fire

LOL.  I was going to say something about these occurrences but you saved me the time.  Have you seen the clouds of locusts coming your way?

Me?  No one wants to live up here.  Too cold, too much snow, too many bugs, and the locals are heavily armed.  Everyone stay away!

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No place is perfect, ultimately anywhere in the US is vulnerable

to the gov't intrusion. They will get quite nasty when the time comes.

I wonder how some of those soldiers, police officers, federal law enforcement agents, etc...live with themselves regarding what they are being asked to do.  I guess they do a pretty good job of brainwashing them and feeding them false infromation.

In the end, I think a life overseas should also be an option.

YE

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ao wrote: Dogs_In_A_Pile

ao wrote:

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Full Moon wrote:

are you all from Virginia OK ?    The quake must have been a surprise !    We are going to have strange weather patturns until the end of Sept . I do believe.

FM 

Epicenter is being reported by USGS near Mineral, VA about halfway between Richmond and Charlottesville.  5.9 - 6.0 magnitude.  We got a pretty good shake down in Virginia Beach but no reports of damage.

I need to amend my response to YE touting the benefits of Virginia.  The Great Dismal Swamp is on fire from a lightning strike earlier this month.  Hurricane Irene is bearing down and expected to make landfall in the Carolinas this weekend.

Now an earthquake....

Hey, at least the hurricane will put out the fire

LOL.  I was going to say something about these occurrences but you saved me the time.  Have you seen the clouds of locusts coming your way?

Me?  No one wants to live up here.  Too cold, too much snow, too many bugs, and the locals are heavily armed.  Everyone stay away!

ao -

If it was up to me I'd very likely be a landowner in the UP somewhere between Newberry and Tahquamenon Falls.

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Good try ?

Do you think everyone bought  it     ?     Those people  that only stay on the interstate will not have a bit of trouble believing a word I said .

FM 

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Just in case

YoungEntrepreneur wrote:

In the end, I think a life overseas should also be an option.

YE

Just in case you aren't aware of this site he sounds right up your alley.  http://www.sovereignman.com/

Chris interviewed him recently too.  http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/simon-black-most-sound-opportunities-...

Travlin 

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Hey Travlin, good call. Yes, I have definitelyexplored offshore

been familiar with Sovereign Man for quite a while. LOVE his stuff!

I think I listened to that CM interview not too long ago. Been on sites like InternationalLiving.com, LiveandInvestOverseas.com, EscapeArtist.com, SovereignSociety.com and other sites like those quite a bit as well.

I think the multiple flags approach is by far the safest route and frankly superior to anything you can accomplish by confining you prep, investments and protecting your assets through US only resources.

Lots of people are prepping for the Crash Course but neglect offshore diversification that decreases your soveriegn risk and also opens up a whole new world of opportunity.

Plan A is to get settled somewhere else in the US (California is one of the last places to be). Plan B and my more ambitious goal and primary area of interest and investment is getting settled overseas though.

YE

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Just checking

YE

I thought you probably knew that site, but I just wanted to be sure. Thanks for the leads to the other sites. I will look at them.

Travlin 

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Travlin...

Sure no problem. Let me know what you think and find. I've spent quite a bit of time dealing in that space.

PM with questions or comments if you like. Thanks.

YE

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Most Important

Which state you are in is far less important than the details, like-

who your neighbors are, their values

micro-climate.  This is SUPER important if you want to grow food.

rainfall/soil comp.  for the above reasons.

I live in CA, but you'd never know it from my neighborhood.  We all barter, grow our food, keep it local as much as possible.  Though we do business in CA, the rules on the books are not the same as rules enforced.

I lived in L.A., no way would I stay there either, but there are places here that are cheap and ariable.  That said, we almost moved to TX, but lack of family there and crazy mosquito weather prevented it.  I'd personally go for Idaho, parts of Oregon, and North Carolina.  But again, you have to REALLY research the actual properties, get to know people in the area, do soil tests and well tests, check weather patterns, etc.  These things are much easier if you already live in the area.

Let us know what you find!

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Thanks for pitching in your 2 cents tictac1

Agree about the neighbors and values but sometimes what part of the country you're in can influence those beliefs, values and cultural norms.

Microclimtae is big. Much of California is designed to be in drought conditions most of the time but due to weird weather pattens the past couple of years it's actually rained more and been cooler than normal here.

I've lived in both Los Angeles and San Francisco so I have a feel o the differences between NoCal and SoCal.

Gotcha on the off the books practices. The letter of the law is just insane out here. This state is really peculiar.

Don't like the extreme liberalism, high taxes, hight cost of living , over-priced real estate, over population, anti-business atmoshere and the present state of the economy here. CA is one of the states in the worst shape and with local gov't practices you can only expect the worst here when the STHF.

Although you can make things work in parts of the state I believe there are better alternatives within the country. Why fight an uphill battle when other places that offer inherent advantages that can more easily facilitate quite a few things instead of make them more difficult or practically block them.

Texas has allot going for it but heat plus humidity are not my friends and they are also very prone to droughts (in fact going through a severe one right now). I'm not not sure I'll like it there. Here many good things about Austin and the Dallas area though. I will visit and explore more just to make sure. Generally speaking, an attractive option.

Also, more than a couple of people have mentioned Oregon and Idaho. I understand the weather and farming could be a good fit but not sure it offers enough in terms of other criteria I have under consideration.

North Carolina is also high on my list, just not anywhere close to the coasts.

Right now, I'm going to take a much closer look at parts of the Southeast and Mid-atlantic plus Colorado.

Yes, soil, growing season and severity of winters and potential for natural disasters are all strong considerations.

I don't mind some cold during winter and parts of fall. However, I just don't want severe or exceptionally long winters but do like the seasons changing. Milder weather ideally. No extremes either way.

I think a greenhouse, vertical farming and some other tricks can compensate for winter though.

I'll keep in touch with what I find. Thanks.

YE

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Upon further review, me thinks...

The four corners area of the US (parts of Colorado, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico) plus Idaho and the southeast area of the US (like north and south Carolinas, Tennessee and Kentucky) seem like prime areas of high consideration.

Staying away from the coasts, high population centers and extreme weather areas.

Thanks for the input folks!

YE

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YoungEntrepreneur wrote: The

YoungEntrepreneur wrote:

The four corners area of the US (parts of Colorado, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico) plus Idaho and the southeast area of the US (like north and south Carolinas, Tennessee and Kentucky) seem like prime areas of high consideration.

The problem with the four corners is the lack of water.

The problem with the southeast is that, if you're a Yankee (and if you are one possessing significant wealth whereby you might be considered a carpetbaggin' Yankee), you won't be viewed very favorable by a significant portion of the population there when TSHTF.

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