The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

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robk's picture
robk
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

I'll invest.

Rob

Septimus's picture
Septimus
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

I'll invest too!

jrf29's picture
jrf29
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

This may not be such a wise idea, for several reasons...

First, the primary message of the Crash Course does not relate to speculative investment strategy. It is a neutral, academic look at the various factors which threaten the long-term stability of our economic and environmental systems. The mere existence of a highly speculative investment fund would tend to severely cheapen the Crash Course, and limit the acceptance of its message, by implying that it is related to a money-making scheme, regardless of the disposition of the profits.

Second, the clear implication would be that the outstanding success of the fund would reflect the outstanding truth of the website's message. Conversely if the fund were to falter, its short-comings would be forever interpreted by the public as proof of the invalidity of the entire crash course message. That would be a shame, since the fundimental message of this website has little to do with stock speculation.

Third, there are already many funds which trade to profit on a falling dollar and increasing energy prices, and

Fourth, the legal and regulatory demands imposed upon such an operation are unfathomably large.

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
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Re: The Martenson Fund? No way!

I love the vote of confidence, but I can put a stop to this talk right here...the amount of regulatory preparation necessary to pull this off would completely consume me for at least a year, maybe more.

Of all the things that need doing over the next year, filling out paperwork, obtaining licenses, writing prospectuses, and taking tests are all pretty far down on my personal list of things to do.

Waaaaaay down the list.

However, I am interested in building investment in community and fortunately this activity is not yet heavily regulated so we can start right away.

And you know what?  Over the next few years, it is this investment alone that will return the most to its "investors."

It is (past) time to transition from being an "I" to a "we" culture. That's where my head is.

tom.'s picture
tom.
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

Your head's in the right place.

G's picture
G
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

Well I think it is a nice and honorable thought. However, I do not belive what was initially proposed by barrt is realistic or prudent. There is a whole legal side to such an endeavor and how can anyone really trust someone to manage it.

With all due respect I am not trusting anyone here with my money, not even Chris. I would want to see a prospectus and the legal details before I made such an investment.

I think there a few other actions we can take. Donate what you think is fair to this community, if you can or are so inclined. Distribute DVD's, site links, and even the .iso files.

I am conserving as much as possible of my income. I live in NY state and as you know taxes are going to go up significantly here.

My contribution is spreading the word about the Crash-Course, linkes to the site, and on other social networking sites, as well as seeding the Torrent from my colocated server.

However, I respect barrt's intentions, if the world was ideal, fair, trustworthy, and the legal stuff reasonable then I would be with you.

Thank-you,

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

I'm not sure what the scheme is... but count me in... i guess.  I'm clueless.  I have no idea what you just wrote, Barrt.  Can't we just start a compound somewhere and start our own village?  Now that would be great. Smile

We'll need:

gardeners

builders

teachers

blacksmiths

farmers

cooks

potters

sewers

hunters

gatherers

With the knowledge we have re: permaculture and etc. we'd have so much leisure time!

G's picture
G
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Posts: 37
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

I have a thought. We all accept that the next 20 years will be unlike the last 20 years. But why must the future outlook always revert back to a survivalist mentality. I am not sure that I buy these perpectives of these communes everyone writes about.

Start our own village? Perhaps the change starts in the communities/cities we already live in. Why tear down the old or build a new community, but rather change the community we live in. How do we know that one of us may need to be a blacksmith, hunter, or gatherer?

Many seem very focused on this perspective, and while I agree that it may indeed be possible, we are simply not at that stage yet. It seems that many have already capitulated and have decided that the system will fail catastrophically. That is not the primary message I received from the Crash Course.

I believe that it does not have to come to that. It is a given that some of our time and energy must be directed to such contingencies, but perhaps more energy should be spent working to make the system we have more efficient, responsible, and about all honest.

While I certainly have survival concepts in my mind and I am preparing my own plans as such, it is not my vision for the future. I am not going to capitulate now and decide that all is lost and make that my sole purpose for living.

If the system breaks to such a point as many fear it will, then there will be no happy little communes where everyone chips in and does their part. History is full of tragedy when crisis occurs and my friends I have little reason to believe that all will be well if the worst comes to pass.

We can help turn the tide and provide hope with a purpose and a plan, without all the doom and gloom that seems inherent to the survival mentality. The key is to reshape our communities to work within the confines of our resources, means, and ability; and carry that on through to the rest of the nation.

There are serious problems, these are not only our problems, but we have made them our childrens problems. I refuse to hand them a broken world, I will not accept that a survivalist lifestyle is the only possible outcome for them, we owe them better. Especially considering we are spending their future right now.

I agree we must be prepared for the worst but we need to plan for the best possible outcome. What really needs to change in our life is responsible resource usage, efficient energy consumption, living within our means, erradication of fiat currency, central banking, fractional reserve lending, crub population growth. If we limited ourselves to consuming what could be sustained or even less then we would have a real future to look forward to.

We could still have many of the things we enjoy today, perhaps less of them, but we could still have technology, homes, travel, infrastructure, modern medicine, pursuit of knowledge, etc.

Thank-you

Judy's picture
Judy
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Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

Gabriel, I love what you are saying.  I've printed it out to share with others, and to remind myself how I want to think.

Nichoman's picture
Nichoman
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Re: Agree: Martenson Fund? No way!

cmartenson wrote:

It is (past) time to transition from being an "I" to a "we" culture. That's where my head is.

 

Submit a "we" culture requires promoting the correct values and problem solving principles.

 

Look at how things are unfolding,  Isn't this a direct contradiction of where we need to be?   So...how do we get there?

 

Some may disagree...but the "Crash Course" is just a first step...an educational mechanism...promoting awareness is somewhat easy.  Solving problems isn't...that's the key.  

Suggest we inherently know most of the answer(s) to solve...but not enough really want to take it on (our broken government/society).      We need to change the system (not in a revolutionary manner) back toward WE THE PEOPLE which is more straightforward than most may think.   Our society...or even many in this forum may not be there yet until the pain (err Cancer) increases to a point that its obvious to large majority something is very wrong.

 

As a scientist...am an observationalist...matching Obama's mannerisms and behaviors so far...though he's well meaning are not encouraging at all.  Can he be more of a disaster than Bush?  Maybe.  

 

Nichoman 

barrt's picture
barrt
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Posts: 171
Re: Martenson Fund? Way!

 

Can i try again guys to convinve you on this idea? I think i messed up using the word 'fund' its a dirty word now for sure.

... A few years ago a friend of mine had a baby, about 20 of us opened a bank account and all set up direct debits to pay a few bucks every month into this fund, sorry errr.... account, no one regulated us and no exams were needed. its been going about 5 years now, little Baby Baba must be loaded by now! (she sure better spend it fast though, perhaps i should mention gold to her?)

Whos going to interfere with us if we open an account, pay in a few bucks each and then have some fun with it? as long as we dont use the F word?

A few things to keep in mind while considering this daft but fun scheme;

1 if money is a claim on, or a store of human labour, then the fact that it is all evaporating right now is a tragedy. with short selling or options trading, inverse etf's ect we can pull some of that value out of the sandcastle before it all blows away forever and use it for good later on.

2. there are many investors on this forum, all looking for ways to protect or salvage something of their future, this site frustratingly hints at lots and lots of 'what to do's' and suggestions for maybe this, or maybe that, for many of us it goes frustratingly over our heads and we are left with our worries multiplied by not understanding. why not add something more solid and above all, fun to this site? real concrete help for people.

3 We cannot have a 'we' society without trust, positive thining and planning for the future and love of course. We dont need officials and regulations, just trust in the goodness of our fellow man (hi Chris ;-) this is just some pals having some bets together and playng around with paper money right? No need for concern, move along please officer....

4 I hear what you say jfr29, But i dont agree. we here are all convinced of the direction of the future, there is no real debate about that. why not underline it with spectacular savings/ gains that can be used in a communual way later on? the chance to do something so big and so positive in the face of such a scarey tsunami of negativity is a golden chance, a true once in a lifetime opportunity. I do agree with you that the sucess of the venture will underscore and amplify the validity of the message and i say what the hell is wrong with that? - your 3rd and 4th points are not really relevant to the idea im trying to get over and besides, you dont have to come in with us Wink.

5 i trust fully not only Chris with my $500, but also all the other menbers of this board that their hearts are in the right places, i dont think they would be here if not. You can call me naive and maybe ill loose my 500, but i trust the goodness in everyone i meet, always. and sure i often get burned, sometimes very badly but ill do it again, and again tommorrow because thats part of what keeps this big dopey grin on my face

6 Responsibility and workload. There wouldnt be any Chris, except to perhaps join in with the discussions about future investments if you wanted to and of course the actual moving of the money around when the time came. we decide where it goes so we shoulder the responsibility.

So I hold up my $500 as a tiny little beacon of hope in these dark days and i say again unto thee good ladies and gentlemen, WHO IS WITH ME??? COME ON! LETS DO SOMETHING POSITIVE HERE INSTEAD OF WORRYING AND HAVE SOME FUN AT THE SAME TIME! YOUR $500 IS GOING DOWN THE TUBE ANYWAY! WHY NOT TURN IT INTO $XXXX (insert your amount here) AND SPEND IT ALL WISELY IN THE COMMUNITY?

Ahem... right, sorry for shouting, im going for a lay down now....

barrt

tom.'s picture
tom.
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Posts: 343
Re: Martenson Fund? Way!

barrt wrote:

Can i try again guys to convinve you on this idea? I think i messed up using the word 'fund' its a dirty word now for sure.

What is that barrt, an integration of connive & convince? Laughing

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
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Posts: 624
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

My previous post was mostly in jest, but I would not rule it out completely.  Actually I'm yearning for a deeper relationship with Mother Earth.  Growing up, in the country, gave me a life that many do not know, considering the percentages of populations that live/grow up in the city/suburbs.  It's a different kind of experience and a wonderful life in the country.  I really do wish I could find that type of life again.  I live in the city now and realize how much I miss her.  My one and only healthy tree on my little, city, lot is such a dear friend.  It's a maple.  It's so strong and grew so fast.  I dote on (him) a lot as if he was my child.  I love my tree. 

Sometimes we miss the very things we take for granted.  Gardeners, I think, understand this more than others.  I'm no gardener, but I think I should be.  I may not know if I'm a blacksmith, teacher, potter, or gardener, but I'm almost positive that, in the type of lifestyle that I crave, I would be happier being any one of these things, within a small community of caring people, than settling for a position as an accountant, programmer, mechanic, sales associate, and etc.  I mean come on!  "Sales Associate"???  Give me a job as a potter--- please! 

Our roller coaster ride is almost over and many will realize, too late, that that's all it was... a fantasy.  If you're not ready to give up your plastic, your computers, your cell phones, your televisions, your "stuff", then you'll never be ready to work as a community.  The "stuff" we currently have takes away our community.  I'm here on my computer rather than talking to someone.  Why?  Because it's late and my friends are more than the distance I want to spend my gas money on every day.  I depend on transportation just to see my friends.  I depend on my job that I don't like so much.  I depend upon a system that has caused more isolation than it probably intended.  I depend on everyone and everything that is not meaningful in my life. 

I would like to, someday, depend on a group or community that that brings meaning into my life.  Something that doesn't resemble superficiality.  I am ready to leave everything for that.  My only problem would be convincing my family that they should come with. 

How do you lead a caged bird out of an unlocked cage when the locked cage is all they know?  If you keep a bird locked in a cage long enough... they'll never want to come out.

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caroline_culbert
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Posts: 624
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

Gabriel LePage wrote:

I have a thought. We all accept that the next 20 years will be unlike the last 20 years. But why must the future outlook always revert back to a survivalist mentality. I am not sure that I buy these perspectives of these communes everyone writes about. 

That is the whole point... to survive and hopefully, in the meantime, maximize happiness.  I just don't think our current condition resembles happiness.  I think it's an illusion and that's why I bring up the idea of compound or village. 

Gabriel LePage wrote:

Start our own village? Perhaps the change starts in the communities/cities we already live in. Why tear down the old or build a new community, but rather change the community we live in. How do we know that one of us may need to be a blacksmith, hunter, or gatherer? 

Perhaps the change does start with the current city you already live in.  Sometimes, though, relocating gives others a better chance to contemplate whypeople choose to leave rather than stay.  This also shows the lawgivers what's at stake if they are not willing to truly work for their people, i.e., their revenue will be going elsewhere.

Gabriel LePage wrote:

Many seem very focused on this perspective, and while I agree that it may indeed be possible, we are simply not at that stage yet. It seems that many have already capitulated and have decided that the system will fail catastrophically. That is not the primary message I received from the Crash Course. 

Of course we're not there yet.  99% of the U.S. population is not there yet.  I'm not making any assumptions about whether or not the system will crash.  I just don't care.  I would like to just get the hell out.

Gabriel LePage wrote:

I believe that it does not have to come to that. It is a given that some of our time and energy must be directed to such contingencies, but perhaps more energy should be spent working to make the system we have more efficient, responsible, and about all honest. 

You can't make the "system" more efficient, responsible, and more honest.  You can, however, encourage people to be more efficient, responsible, and honest.  Every particular system has a design, and its design is dependent on something to sustain it.  The dependency lies in the very hands of people themselves.  We, and our actions, are the very thing that either makes or breaks a system.

Gabriel LePage wrote:

While I certainly have survival concepts in my mind and I am preparing my own plans as such, it is not my vision for the future. I am not going to capitulate now and decide that all is lost and make that my sole purpose for living. 

Your vision is probably nothing like mine.  My vision is nothing like most others; But we may have very similar domains by which we see through our vision lens.  Paradoxically then, my vision is probably very much like yours and very much like others.  Maybe the problem then is that I haven't communicated well or enough to those around me? 

Gabriel LePage wrote:

If the system breaks to such a point as many fear it will, then there will be no happy little communes where everyone chips in and does their part. History is full of tragedy when crisis occurs and my friends I have little reason to believe that all will be well if the worst comes to pass. 

  

Almost everyone will probably receive what they expect.  I hope we have a bunch of "happy little communes" because those "happy little communes" might be the only people left that know how to make the food you need.

Gabriel LePage wrote:

We can help turn the tide and provide hope with a purpose and a plan, without all the doom and gloom that seems inherent to the survival mentality. The key is to reshape our communities to work within the confines of our resources, means, and ability; and carry that on through to the rest of the nation. 

Sometimes it's better to stop enabling the system, thus enabling the people of a sick system-- or should I say; sick people within a system.

Gabriel LePage wrote:

There are serious problems, these are not only our problems, but we have made them our childrens problems. I refuse to hand them a broken world, I will not accept that a survivalist lifestyle is the only possible outcome for them, we owe them better. Especially considering we are spending their future right now. 

What makes you think that everything you do isn't about "surviving". 

Gabriel LePage wrote:

I agree we must be prepared for the worst but we need to plan for the best possible outcome. What really needs to change in our life is responsible resource usage, efficient energy consumption, living within our means, erradication of fiat currency, central banking, fractional reserve lending, crub population growth. If we limited ourselves to consuming what could be sustained or even less then we would have a real future to look forward to. 

  

There's no "best possible outcomes" because that would involve predicting; And look at what predictions all those smart people, in Washington, has done for us.  There are only outcomes and then we can attribute properties to them because, frankly, we have no idea what part of the sea we're headed.  We should find out what is good for us.  What is healthy for us?  What makes us genuinely happy?  What will make for a meaningful life?

Gabriel LePage wrote:

 

We could still have many of the things we enjoy today, perhaps less of them, but we could still have technology, homes, travel, infrastructure, modern medicine, pursuit of knowledge, etc. 

  

We could still have technology, "modern" medicine, and etc... Will these make you happier?  Do you realize that a whole generation of elderly black folk will be dying soon?  Do you know why I care?  Because they have so much medical knowledge.  These folks didn't have money, and least of all for "a doctor".  What they did was "survive".  This passing generation has/had so much information that we should have.  They couldn't afford doctors or expensive drugs that we are so accustomed to now.  How fortunate we are.  But these poor folk who had nearly nothing have more, in knowledge, than we'll ever have regarding self preservation.  I call that technology too.  Infrastructure?  Isn't that the whole point of a father/son relationship or let's just say it takes a village to build a home.

 

G's picture
G
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Posts: 37
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

@Caroline

I will be succinct because I do not desire an ongoing argument.

Yes I do like technology and modern medicine. If I have a tumor I want it removed, if I have a shattered bone I want an ORIF, if I have an infection I want antibiotics, those things can not be fixed by folk/homeopathic medicine.

Technology is one of the great triumphs of man kind. There is nothing evil or sinister about technology. The only negative impact technology has is the same impact that any thought, object, or concept has had when it is used to facilitate negative outcomes. A knife is a great tool, it can be used as a tool or as a weapon to commit murder. Technology enriches our lives for the better, it is worth preserving.

I am not going to get the hell out (escape to the wilderness, live off the land, etc.), that is probably a sure way to get killed. The best bet is to work with what you have in your community, in most cases it is easier to work with those you know and where you are familiar, than to start all over again, especially in the middle of a crisis.

The system can be made more efficient, its starts and ends with the consumption and ethics of the people. The system is the people, everyone blames the corporations and the government, some how individual responsiblity as citizens of our nation and citizens of the earth get left out.

I want to do more than survive. Look at some history, just surviving is NOT fun, it usually ended in horrible deaths for those involved. We do more than survive in our present age. You can exist just to survive if you chose, I have higher ambitions, especially for my children.

You can give up on the system, I am not ready to do that yet, I am not ready to give up on the people, otherwise what is the point of the Crash Course, what is the point of community.

When there is little hope for anything other than survival then I will switch into survival mode, but until then I hold that with greater responsibilty, wisdom, and efficiency we can live a life far greater than mere survival and our communities are the means by which that will happen.

 The whole point of the Crash Course and all of these dialogues is not to run screaming into the night that the world is coming to an end. It is to make the changes to sustain a quality of life, and the sooner we accomplish that object the better.

Thank-you

G's picture
G
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Joined: Aug 4 2008
Posts: 37
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

@Caroline and everyone,

Thank your for your opinions, it has been a great dialogue. The best ideas often come from constructive conflict. 

I am speaking for myself here; giving up now, capitulating, degrading to a survival mentality, is not necessary or wise. I honestly believe that we can do much better than to just survive. There will be a balance between survival and the lives we live today. All of nature self corrects and seeks balance, and we will either go along with the program or not. The sooner we do, the better quality of life we all will have.

I am not a survivalist yet, I do not want to be, I will be if it is necessary.

Thank-you,

 

barrt's picture
barrt
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Posts: 171
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

 but guys you've hijacked my post!

Only kidding, it was probably a duff idea anyway Yell I thik ill drop it now, its probably a good idea for a small group of friends to get together and have some fun doing it but a public group of strangers? i think i was getting a bit uhhmmm.... whats the word? naive? daft?

Actually Tom I was going for a blend of connive, convert and convince Foot in mouth

Carloline, I really like your posts, and your new photo too, hehehehe! but from what you say I think you would love it where i have moved to for exactly the reasons you talk about - Andalucia in southern Spain, the Costa Del Sol. its sooo beautiful and the people are wonderful, not much has changed inland for hundreds of years, there is almost no government or any authority at all! i never have to deal with any authority, except perhaps once a year when i get a traffic cop check.

They have cars sure, but they still have their donkeys and still largley live off the land, there are no financial sales event co-ordinator assistant managers here. Here the family still rules, you always see large 4 generation family groups out in the restaurants untill the wee small hours, they are so warm and friendly, they all smoke and drink but all live to ripe old ages, why? - no stress, there is no stress here, very traditional and very lovely, very very slow and relaxed, "tommorrow will be fine Senor, which tommorrow? ahh we will see...."

Ive been lucky enough to meet a great bunch of expats too, many are likeminded and we are starting to form serious groups with the future in mind. It feels good looking forward when you live here. We even now have our first transistion town which i want to get more involved with. The future looks lovely from here

Gabriel you write so well, and make good points with which i agree on most, im sure your vision of the future is also true, i think perhaps though what you might be not talking about though is the possible seriousness of the transition period. The changes that must be coming are going to be harder and more dangerous in some places rather than others. I am sure though that once the dust dies down more normal procedding will be resumed for those that are left, but of course with a more realistic and sustainable outlook, i dont see any  alternative to that

so you see, we are all right, in our own ways, there are many possible futures, your job is to try and pick a positive one for you and your kin

Love you guys x

barrt

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 624
Re: The Martenson Fund? Count me in!

Gabriel LePage wrote:

@Caroline

I will be succinct because I do not desire an ongoing argument.

Yes I do like technology and modern medicine. If I have a tumor I want it removed, if I have a shattered bone I want an ORIF, if I have an infection I want antibiotics, those things can not be fixed by folk/homeopathic medicine.

Technology is one of the great triumphs of man kind. There is nothing evil or sinister about technology. The only negative impact technology has is the same impact that any thought, object, or concept has had when it is used to facilitate negative outcomes. A knife is a great tool, it can be used as a tool or as a weapon to commit murder. Technology enriches our lives for the better, it is worth preserving.

I am not going to get the hell out (escape to the wilderness, live off the land, etc.), that is probably a sure way to get killed. The best bet is to work with what you have in your community, in most cases it is easier to work with those you know and where you are familiar, than to start all over again, especially in the middle of a crisis.

The system can be made more efficient, its starts and ends with the consumption and ethics of the people. The system is the people, everyone blames the corporations and the government, some how individual responsiblity as citizens of our nation and citizens of the earth get left out.

I want to do more than survive. Look at some history, just surviving is NOT fun, it usually ended in horrible deaths for those involved. We do more than survive in our present age. You can exist just to survive if you chose, I have higher ambitions, especially for my children.

You can give up on the system, I am not ready to do that yet, I am not ready to give up on the people, otherwise what is the point of the Crash Course, what is the point of community.

When there is little hope for anything other than survival then I will switch into survival mode, but until then I hold that with greater responsibilty, wisdom, and efficiency we can live a life far greater than mere survival and our communities are the means by which that will happen.

 The whole point of the Crash Course and all of these dialogues is not to run screaming into the night that the world is coming to an end. It is to make the changes to sustain a quality of life, and the sooner we accomplish that object the better.

Thank-you

I can see you are still dependent on the current systems running our lives.  You have so much faith in these systems- for better or for worse, but I think for worse.  Sometimes when you've patch too many holes in a pair of jeans, it's time you just threw the darn thing away and invest in a new pair. 

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