Is a Generator that runs on Natrual Gas instead of gasoline a good idea? How long would Natrual Gas last in an emergency?

On the "big picture" you must check out this video on cyber warfare that directly effects the power grid and utility companies (including natural gas)

There are a number of people along the gulf coast that have installed natural gas generators and the two biggest issues that people don't really consider are: 1. the pressure needed to run the generator from the line, and 2) the volume of gas through a line is limited so the number of people (or leaks) in the system directly supplying your fuel.

The idea of using propane is very good since you control the amount of fuel based on the size of the tank(s) that you would put on site. Just remember that this is still temporary (either days, weeks or months) depending on your usage.

I watched a video online that showed a cyber attack on a reciprocating gen set and it took about 60-90 seconds before the unit was fryed based soley on the ability to turn on and off certain valves through the control system. Check it out....

Don't just worry about union thugs, there are many issues relating to resources, energy and the economy that you should think about if you truly want power over a long period of time.

I went down the same path. I had a 60KW generator installed. It's set up with an automatic transfer box, so it automatically turns on if the power is off for 20 seconds. If you do this, I'd recommend also getting a 1,000 gallon tank installed. It will run the generator for 11 days straight and it's easy to have a truck stop by and top it off. Even better, that tank can power a gas stove for several years' worth of use. It's one of those preparations that solves the short term problem of bad power AND provides a good amount of resilience should things get really tough. Some day I may even get a natural gas powered vehicle. Then that 1,000 gallon buried tank would provide even greater resiliency. 

I recommend you contact your local gas supplier, the folks who will bring the trucks around to top off your tank, and see what programs they have in place. Around here, they will subsidize the tank since they know that you'll be buying gas from them. Oh, and in my case I chose to have it buried. I wouldn't have done it any other way both for aesthetic reasons and for security reasons. 

We lost power for quite a long time during the brutal storm last year and again for a day or so this Winter. Having that generator made it a non-event while others were struggling to stay warm.

Good luck.

As I understand, Sizing a generator is important from an efficiency perspective.  An idling generator is inefficient.

A 20KW generator seems likely to be too big, unless you are powering a large house with electric heat.

My house with 2 GEO heat pumps and an Electric Hot Water Heater would  top out at about 10KW draw.  However, in an emergency, I would not plan on using that much.  My thought would be to get a 5-10 KW Gen and cut back on load with wood heat or something during an emergency.

Re the Buried Tank.

Remember.  The tank is underground, so the propane will stay around 50degrees during the winter.  Also, a 500 Gal tank is not terribly expensive.  Much cheaper than a thousand gallon.

John

i have an 8 kw (10 kw surge) gas generator wired directly into the main power distribution box at the house so I can run anything in the house I want to. I live in NW Jersey so you have to have heat or you can't live here. I have a NC 30 wood burning stove for when the furnace can not (or will not) run. we burn about 4 cords of wood every winter. for the 3 months of the year we need AC (June, July, August) we use window units. When it cools off we talk them out and put them away for the next year.

The 8 kw gas generator runs the house just fine. I have never tried it with the window AC units running. i went back and forth on whether to use propane or gas and ended up deciding on gas. There are many places i can get gas. 10 gallons will run it for 18 hours. my RAM pickup has 40 gallon tank so i can run the generator for days on a tank full. I decided against propane as it is not readily available and to get any quantity you have to have a propane person deliver it. what if there is no propane person ?

Cut your energy footprint in half  and get a battery bank with solar panels with an option to detach yourself from the grid..   That's the future...

If you must get nat gas, get a giant 20ft long tank to run your home for 50 days or so....

MrEnergyCzar 

You can think that but you're wrong.  I never said such any such thing.

And it's interesting but when you drive through the Bavarian countryside now, there are solar cells on many of the homes, barns, storage buildings, etc.  Given that Bavaria is about as far north as the northernmost continental U.S. cities, the Bavarians may disagree with you about solar not working up north. 

These are made for sale in australia.  

http://www.elgas.com.au/for-home/lpg-portable-power-generator-home-sale

I've never used one,  but I'm sure that the company must have some info about this issue.

Woodgas - I've looked at it, but where can you acquire a good model?   I've made little projects with my son for entertainment, but from reading about them, if you don't get all the resins, etc out of the gas you will ruin your generator - is Victory in business?  Any recommendations? 

Addressing Tommy Holly's original query regarding the reliability of Nat Gas in an extended emergency.

I would hesitate to go with Nat Gas if there's another available energy source that can be stored up.  Compressor stations that have to stay online to keep the gas flowing would be my concern for an extended emergency.  Somewhere in there would be the necessity for people to show up and do their jobs when everything is going SHTF around them.  At some point, somebody's going to want to stay home and protect their family instead.

Shorter term emergencies such as power outages, winter storms, hurricanes; I would think Nat Gas is fine.  You would have a constant supply of power without having to go out and fill up the gas tank every so often.  But I would need a back up supply of something else for an extended emergency.  Same goes for your cooking stove and your Nat Gas furnace if that's what you have.

As far as the size of the genset, I agree with others that 20kw is a little on the heavy side.  BUT, the way these things are priced, there is very little incremental cost in going from 7kw on up to the 20kw, and the installation cost is pretty much the same in either case.  Sure, I could run my house on less than 1.5kw per 24 hours and have routinely done so.  There have been times, however, when the grid power went down and I have been very happy to let the generator kick on and supply whatever devices were running at that time.   

Treemagnet,

Victory Gasworks and Gekgasifier are two American woodgasifier brands. Expensive, but good, when in hands of an experienced operator and fed with the right fuel.

Every engine runs most efficient near max torque. Running it at 10% power means a great percentage of fuel is lost due to internal friction. Imagin it running at 0% power, so idle. Which genset uses most fuel: a 5 kW or a 50 kW?

You can live on 1 kW. 1 kW means 24 kWh a day. That's 2.5 times the average household consumption in my country. You might need a battery pack and 2 or 3 kW inverter, depending on momentary power demand. I like my wind and solar system with a cheap generator as backup. It is a lazy way of power production. Only little maintenance, uses no oil and fuel, it is quiet, less complicated, half of it may break down and it still will limp on. In a TSHTF scenario you do not want to worry about fuel supply and maintenance, by having only one energy source. A genset should be the backup for your regular off-grid system. We have grid power, but I sized the off-grid system only that large that it can supply enough those few vital power users. The off-grid system runs these vital parts continously, in order to keep the batteries exercised.

I see a fossil fuel powered generator as a temporary methode. Good for a few days or weeks. So one needs to think for what timeframe he wants power backup and decide accordingly.

Regards, DJ

No, I didn't find the time to study your website.  I didn't realize it was an assignment.  Look, I think you're smart and I like engaging folks who know something I don't.  Simple conversations, lively discussions, and healthy arguments - even nasty ones serve a purpose.  I'll will look at your website to learn.  Stoic sites and their members, preparing folks for the "end of days" and such who launch into a hissy fit when baited with the claim of "bullshit" are, in my opinion, hilarious [see also: context].  Relax, much worse than me will come your way.   My family argues and debates all topics - its a skill to be sharpened, honed, and appreciated.  No way can the vast majority of people live of that 1KW Honda - and you know it.  You'll have to explain to folks how all they get is one 100watt light bulb for ALL POWER and ALL ENERGY for their home...goodl luck.  Yes you can - good for you.  But to suggest otherwise is disingenuous - the very world you depend on has come to rely on more.  You don't need a hospital, grocery store, mail-order/internet anything, building supply center, roads, local govt, law enforcement, schools, oil/gas/energy/diesel/kerosene, etc.  Just you and your 2.5kw a day will keep the bad things away?  Because thats what your "throwin down".   So, just know that I'm gonna learn more about what makes your world tick and apply some of it to mine.

Now I'm off to read your site, maybe even ask you a question or two about it - if you're open to it.

Went to the site, took a peak and looked around, I liked what I saw.  Conservation seems to be job #1.  I bought a $26 large LED bulb and watched my new "it will outlive bugs" investment burn out 65 percent of the leds within a couple of months... maybe three tops.  And, the light color was odd - very .....flourescent? 

Anyway, I'm not giving up hope - but are there good names out there?  Regarding solar, I've looked but here in the U.S. upper midwest, solar power commands about as much commercial respect as a wind mill blade polishing service.  Besides drilling holes in a perfectly good roof, they'd be covered in snow for five months, with lousy light for another 2-3.  The obstacles are adding up. 

So now I heat my home, greenhouse, and water with wood pellets.  Certainly not as good as solar, but better than oil outright.  The genset is my "plan D"  (wood/grid/propane/genset).  

Back to bulbs and conserving, thoughts/brandnames?  Thank you, Treemagnet

I was being facetious and pragmatic.  I couldn't live on 10x his energy consumption.  Though I guess I'd better get busy learning how to.  See, its the smallest generator Honda makes....that I'm aware of.  Anyway, maybe I can learn something from the man.

And, obviously I am referring to peak and trough usage - ain't it obvious if we're talking about energizing a standard American home with four seasons?  You can do that, honestly - with a 1kw generator, heating with electricity....in a very cold northern climate?, not a chance.  At Christmas when this place is teeming with inlaws and outlaws, its 30 degrees below zero F. and Christmas lights are on, boiler, furnace, lights, stove, tvs, radios, and cooktop are on.....1000 kw generator!........oh just forget it.  You win.