Eyes Wide Open

OK A new semester dawns ahead of me and I am compiling info for the class.  I have also been fortunate enough that some of my previous students still talk to me which is helpful.  I showed the video for the first time in April and again in early May.

I mentioned this to Jeff but you all should really see what this looks like on a large screen with a good sound system!  It rocks the senses!

Currently my students are complaining that what I said would be happening isn't happening.  Things to them are pretty much as they saw them:  bad,  not getting better but not getting worse enough to generate change.  Even the gulf oil spill did not change anything in any significant way.  

Remember these are short attention span theater kids - it has been six months and the world has not crashed so there is/was no point in prepping.  A few raised more gardens this summer at home than they would have and displayed more interest in learning more about that.  One engineering student shared with me his attempts at a selfpowering water pump powered by the water it pumps.  It isn't working well yet,  but it is an interesting study.  They are having trouble finding jobs.  Several joined the military as a job of last resort.  One joined just to get medical benefits.  One married for the same reason.  (To get benefits for his GF)  

Lately the forums have taken something of a dark turn.  There has been a decent amount of name calling and less than welcoming commentary.  The people who post all of the time who are really into the movement are extremely valuable,  but they are not always as welcoming of the "dippers" as perhaps would be good for the draw.

I am not sure what to do about that.  Squelching freedom of speech is never the answer.  People who are willing to say they are new usually get a decent welcome,  but those who simply put out an opinion do not always get leeway for the learning curve.

I started a thread on the spill called age and perspective just to show how different generations viewed the spill,  just take a look at the ugly turn it has taken...  

Any thoughts on how to overcome that??

I just read the last three pages of the forum in question and I saw no "ugly turns"  ... what are you talking about specifically?

While the specific comment may be unique to that thread, I would assume that talk of "ugly turns" in the forums here and elsewhere pertain to the way that some of us (and I am certainly among the most guilty) have had a hard time letting go of what used to exist here. It's been quite difficult for me to slowly come to accept that you (Chris) and the moderators will always remain relentlessly focused on enforcing civility rules but apparently will never be persuaded to take any interest whatsoever in preserving the former quality level that used to set this site apart from almost everything else on the net. No matter how many people plead with you to do so.

Civility violations are always enforced, as they should be. I know because as I've had a hard time accepting site managment's apparent disregard for preserving former quality standards and the rapid deterioration of quality of discussion, I've lost my cool with people and I'm ashamed to admit that I have stooped to the level of slinging insults at fellow site members. I've had my posting privileges suspended by the moderators as a result, and I deserved it.

An example, abeit pernaps not the specific incident land was be referring to, was when I lost my cool after a non-enrolled member had the audacity to see an excerpt from a Martenson report that was obviously posted as a teaser to encourage people to enroll and gain access to the much more extensive (and very worth-the-money) benefits of enrolled membership. That non-enrolled member apparently felt that because he wanted the information but was not a subscriber, it was appropriate for him to post a "petition" (his word, not mine) asking other non-enrolled members to sign his petition encouraging you (Chris) to provide this Martenson Report or another similar piece free of charge to people like himself who want the benefit of your insight but who refuse to support your work with paid enrolled membership. I was so outraged by that person's attitude that I inappropriately called him a "whining crybaby", and the moderators were forced to (appropriately) respond by suspending my posting privileges. Similarly, Davos went through a period of frustration where he kept calling people "morons". He had the good sense to take a break from participating in the forums until he could get his frustration and annoyance with the direction of the site under control. Meanwhile, there have been other smaller skirmishes in the forums. Even after I was attacked by quite a few people (and clearly lost the battle) after I criticized a site regular who has refused to participate in the "Daily Digest" system for well over a year (despite several earlier more polite suggestions), user V recently became perturbed by the same issue (too many new threads for posts that belong elsewhere) and engaged in his own attempt to make a constructive criticism about how the forums could be improved by having fewer, better organized threads. His critique was met by ridicule (of both V and myself) by the original offender.

So those are a few examples of the "ugly turns" that have occurred in the forums recently.  The really sad part is that a large number of formerly prominent forum contributors including myself have given up on the forums completely, and have sworn them off. Quite a few of us have even found an alternate website where we've reconvened to continue the three E's discussion without having every other thread hijacked to talk about the latest conspiracy theory. (Note: I'm not at liberty to disclose where, so please don't anyone ask).

Meanwhile, I've received quite a few e-mails from former site regulars and currently-still-participating members who have lost their patience with the quality degradation on the forums. Here's an example of an e-mail reprinted with the author's permission:

I've received lots of similar messages from other enrolled members who were not comfortable being quoted. That list includes quite a few former regulars who have told me they gave up and quietly left the site not to return. Incidentally, the last sentence in the above quote was in response to my running an idea by him, which was to set up a new site that would be an invitation-only forum for investors to discuss the financial market implications of the three E's without the constant interruption of a small group of mostly-nonenrolled members who insist on turning every conversation into yet another conspiracy discussion.

Chris, I've e-mailed you more than once with specific suggestions for how to save your website from the deterioration that is now ocurring, but haven't even received the courtesy of a reply. Others have told me they have e-mailed the moderators asking for more emphasis on keeping the discussion on topic and focused on the Three E's, rather than just on enforcement of civility rules. They tell me they didn't get the courtesy of a reply either.

Bottom line: the conclusion of many of your formerly most prolific forum contributors is that the forums are going to hell in a handbasket, and that you (Chris) have no desire or intention whatsoever to save them. When Morpheus tried to express this concern, you reacted defensively, for example. For many of us who have made this site a big part of our lives over the last couple of years, the demise of the CM.com forums is a pretty hard pill to swallow. Most of the people who gave up had the maturity to just walk away quietly. Others like Davos (and to a much worse extent, myself) lost our cool and lashed out inappropriately at other forum participants.

For myself, I'll always eagerly look forward to your Martenson Reports and insider posts. But for my own sanity (and to keep my posting privileges), I've had to make a firm rule to abandon the public forums entirely. The only exceptions I've made in the last month were cases like this post, where the topic being discussed relates directly to the reason I gave up and left. I'm presently testing the idea of participating in the enrolled member discussion area (only), where the quality level hasn't deteriorated nearly as much. We'll see how that goes.

Chris, I wish you and this site all the best in whatever direction you decide to pursue. But the message you're sending us (meaning those who feel the forums have deteriorated markedly in recent months) is a very loud and clear "I'm not going to do anything about it, so just get used to the idea that the forum will be whatever the participants want it to be. Either deal with it or go away:" I sincerely apologize, Chris, for not having been more civilized about implementing my decision to "go away". I know for a fact that you have already lost enrolled membership subscription revenue because of your insistence on letting a group of mostly non-enrolled members have their way and dominate the forums. As a businessman I have a hard time comprehending your rationale, but I do respect that it's your prerogative to run the site however you see fit. Again, I sincerely apologize for not having given up in a more quiet and civilized way.

All the best,

Erik

Here is my take for what it is worth.

Erik check out this thread from 2 years ago. http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/joining-forces-chris/6045

You seem to have been a lightning rod for quite awhile. I know you take things very personally and have a relatively short fuse. If you read through that thread you will see many members who posted are no longer posting. They have gone for one reason or another. It is the nature of the beast. We are in very trying times. There is a great deal of tension and tempers can flare. In any community chaos will arise. To think otherwise is to be naive. When people come here they have found the CC and are usually at the start of a great awakening. I liken this to a relationship. There is a  honeymoon phase where everything is wonderful. Once the initial euphoria wears off then the real work of relationship kicks in. Or put another way everyone appears to be normal until you get to know them better. The key to success is the ability to work through the chaos. This is not a skill many in our culture possess. As an example just look at the divorce rate ( around 50%). There are those on this site who have been impacted more than others, who do not have much in the way of savings, gold silver or investments, They are, if you will, on the bottom of Maslow's pyramid. You on the other hand are closer to the top. Your concerns are vastly different from theirs. Correspondingly there are different senses of urgency. 

Chaos and disagreement are not something to be avoided they are part of the natural flow of interaction. They are actually opportunities for growth and deeper understanding. 

Your opinions and everyone else's are just that. The very beginning of the CC starts off with Facts, Opinions and Beliefs. There are objective facts - it is now summer in the Northern Hemisphere. There are opinions and beliefs which are subjective. The site is going to hell in a hand basket. (Subjective) Chris is a scientist and has done his best to separate the subjective from the objective. That is why he hopes people will back up their opinions and beliefs with facts. In reading old posts I can see there was quite a bit of chaos and disagreement and people leaving and being dissatisfied. that will continue. That is human nature. This site cannot be all things to all people. If you wish to not participate I have no problem with that. I think it would be helpful for you to look at your own role in some people leaving or being disenchanted. In going over old posts I saw you get involved in heated discussions with a number of people. If calm well reasoned discussion is what you want then I suggest you take respnosibility for it.

This is a well moderated site. If there is an issue with a post, flag it and they will take care of it. They have been very responsive to me.

As for Investorzo, by his own admission he does not spend a lot of time here reading other threads. That is fine. I read a lot here and learn a great deal ( actually more from the forum participants than CM) I like to hear as many comments from as many people as possible. I find great wisdom in many of the posters. When threads disappear quickly it cuts short many worthwhile discussions. There happen to  currently be 75 pages of General Discussion threads and 90 Current Events.  This is a lot of material to wade through for info. My point in addressing Investorzo was to simply request that he not post redundant threads. I think he made valuable contributions. The placement  of those contributions were the issue for me. Pretty simple to me , just post them in the DD. There are many topics which deserve to be fleshed out that don't get the chance.

On another note what ever happened to Krogoth? I think in my wanderings he started some of the best most thought provoking threads. I clicked on his name to try to find his posts and could not get to them. Ray Hewitt was another who I particularly enjoyed.

At any rate it seems the more things change the more they stay the same.

V

ps Chris it aint broke it don't need fixin. SNAFU

V,

Superbly stated.  I wish I had your writing skills.

r,

I've seen forums that do this as well and I personally hated the idea.  Nothing personal, but I don't want to come to a forum and be "rated".  Seriously.  The purpose of the forum is to gather information as well as to be a place where you can feel you're wanted in some manner.  It's community incognito, if you will.  

I could go on and on concerning this idea but I won't.  Again, this isn't meant to be a personal attack at all.  I just personally wouldn't feel comfortable nor feel it's a proper direction for any community.

Peace

I don't post here often anymore, but only because I have other areas in which I am involved, and, especially, because I am trying harder to better balance my life. That said, I still visit often, and I have not seen any significant degradation of the site. I miss some "old timers", as others have mentioned, but do not necessarily view past times as the "golden years", or whatever. People coming and going, or varying the frequency and intensity of their participation, is part of online life (and real life, for that matter). This site still continues to be one of my primary sources of good information and cordial debate. In fact, the general tone and quality of this site has been the most consistent of any I have visited regularly, even given the variation in active members at any one time.

Keep up the good work!

Did you ever consider the possibility that the  s won't hit the fan, the shoe won't drop and your life will not change very much?

Remember the markets can remain irrational longer than your preps.

V

I'm a little late to the party on this, but great job on the video JAG!

And to Full Moon and V, I have to say thanks for your interchange.  Sometimes I forget that, while things seem to be moving fast, I may never see the times that we try to prepare for.  But at least living to be as ready as possible helps fulfill a lifestyle that more closely resembles the way we are supposed to live.