Do the US presidential elections matter?

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krogoth's picture
krogoth
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 576
Do the US presidential elections matter?

This is a big subject, but I am interested to see how you members feel about this. Do you think who is elected, McCain or Obama, really matter? Or do you think regardless it will be business as usual. I believe whoever wins is inheriting a historical economic situation that I would not wish on my worst enemy. How do you feel about these candidates? How do you feel about Congress right now? I am an Independent. Just curious to see what everyone thinks. I think anyone who makes radical change (for example abolish the Fed Res, change the structure of banking) will not be in office for long, and I think these Two don't have the economic background or care about the root causes of this. Congress is very embarrassing with a major number of them not even knowing basic economics at all. Let me know how you all feel.

Ray Hewitt's picture
Ray Hewitt
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 5 2008
Posts: 458
Elections don't matter

This is a systemic problem and every candidate running for office in Washington is a product of the system.

One way to put this in perspective is think of politics as religion by another name. The religion is statism. Just like you don't get to be a priest until you earn the trust of your peers, you don't get to run for office unless you earn the trust of party members; your supporters think of you as an investment. The higher the office, the more money behind you until you get to the most corrupt office of all: the presidency. Political office attracts defective people.

They are not problem solvers; they are problem makers. They employ a league of intellectuals to search for solutions to non-problems. Every solution creates a worse problem that creates a public demand for another solution. This has been going on since the ink dried on the Constition, and now it's gotten to the point government consumes more wealth than the market economy can support. Even if they destroy the market economy, it is not necessary for the exercise of power.

The only thing that can stop this madness is mass public resistance like we saw when the Soviet Union collapsed. I can't begin to speculate when a critical mass will realize that government is the root cause of their ills. It's a question of when or if the masses will decide they can do without governent money. If history is any guide, it will take a lot of suffering. If there is a ray of hope in this morass, it is the internet and sites like this.

For those with an interest in the nature of the state, I recommend two books:
Our Enemy, the State by Albert Jay Nock
The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich A. Hayek

rlee's picture
rlee
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 18 2008
Posts: 148
Re: Do the US presidential elections matter?

NO!  I echo hewittr's comments regarding the corrupt nature of government, and the only reason for anybody to want such a position is simply one thing:  Power - the power to be the King, and not one of the pawns.  It's not that they don't know anything about economics, they don't care!

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

We as a nation are on the verge of reaching the end of our lifespan.  The longest running governmental structure in history was the Roman Empire that went for 300 years.  Check the calendar on our age!  While the collapse of the current structure as we know it may not happen in our lifetime (speaking from a late 40 yr. old's perspective), it will in my children's lifetime.  Several states banding together into individual republics with their own monetary system is a real possibility.  For those who say "No way!" we need only look as far as that other Superpower that was to last forever - The USSR.  'Nuff said.

Bob 

FNKRoue's picture
FNKRoue
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 4 2008
Posts: 36
Re: Do the US presidential elections matter?

Unfortunately the basic principles of our, the people's power, over government are completely usurped.   Just watch the HBO documentary "Hacking Democracy".  It is hard to see absolutely undeniable proof on video of the ability to manipulate votes, combined with video documentation of voting process (paper receipts thrown away) illegalities, and a statistically indicative error in election results, and still have faith in your power as a citizen.

 What does it matter if the ultimate person were to appear and challenge the political standard.  They would be harassed, humiliated, ignored, shunned, regardless of the validity of their perspectives and ultimately if popular would magically lose anyway.  I see no way forward that requires anything short of the cooperative effort of the people, in majority and opposing voice, to anything but what they deem is truly best for themselves.  Let us hope and pray that this voice will still be allowed to speak peacefully and productively when the time comes. 

cannotaffordit's picture
cannotaffordit
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 12 2008
Posts: 273
Re: Do the US presidential elections matter?

For my two cents, I do not think the Presidential election will have much effect on the economic situation, simply because it is the entire system which is broken. ( Oh, it might for a few days, but that's all.)  What I am very concerned about, also being a serious student of many books and blogs regarding our "politics and banking" over the past couple of years, is that we may very well see a lot of violence regardless of who is elected.  There is so much unexpressed anger in our country today (reference the kinds of things that were being said by the audience at the McCain campaign meeting this past Friday.)  This, in my opinion, could just complicate the other situations we discuss on this site.  Are any of you keeping up with these other aspects?  Any comments?

Ben 

Beyondthehooha's picture
Beyondthehooha
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 1
Re: Do the US presidential elections matter?
Let's assume there was someone running who had a full grasp of the economic peril we face. There is no such candidate presently, McCain and Obama are in agreement on fundamentals. They both supported the bailout. Neither are talking about deregulation, signifcant tax cuts or shrinking government. What would a more knowledgeable person do at this stage? He would begin a restoration of the gold standard and a free market economy with all its checks and balances on supply and demand for money in circulation itself as well as other goods and services. Nothing less than a round-up and arrests and trials of all those culpable, (all those still alive, obviously) for this mess would be required, and their golden parachutes forfeited, their assets confiscated to partially cushion the blow, although they're insufficient to help much. The only way I see the avoidance of a horrific scenario is to overturn the bailout. Get on television and tell the American people the gravity of the situation and what the proper solutions are: Have no more bailouts. Deregulate business. Pass the Fair Tax. End the income tax, death tax, estate tax, dividend tax, capital gains tax, etc. and all other involuntary taxes. Let banks compete for the confidence of depositers. Businesses would no longer be put under onerous laws that compel them to take unecessarily high risks. Put us back on the gold standard. Put the nation and the world on notice that there can be no more federal aid for hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, etc. except for what people choose to donate privately.   Begin phasing out Social Security and Medicare. Allow younger people to opt out of Social Security and let everyone know that at a certain age, say over 55, (I'm 58) certain medical procedures will not be available unless you can pay for them, comfort measures only.. Let the market readjust and the worst can be avoided. Then we can rid ourselves of the Fed and central banking. Divest government of all functions not mandated in the Constitution. And we'll have to alter the war against terrorism as we have spent ourselves into a corner where a more frugal but cleverer use of our resources will have to suffice, say, our Trident submarines and B1 bombers, etc.  Then, everyone could enjoy the safety and the bounty that a sound laissez-faire capitalist economy would provide.
rlee's picture
rlee
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 18 2008
Posts: 148
Re: Do the US presidential elections matter?

For those that haven't seen the news, this link should clear up any issues you may have regarding the election results:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks

Bob 

rlee's picture
rlee
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 18 2008
Posts: 148
Re: Do the US presidential elections matter?
[quote=Beyondthehooha]
He would begin a restoration of the gold standard and a free market economy with all its checks and balances on supply and demand for money in circulation itself as well as other goods and services... Get on television and tell the American people the gravity of the situation and what the proper solutions are: Have no more bailouts. Deregulate business. Pass the Fair Tax. End the income tax, death tax, estate tax, dividend tax, capital gains tax, etc. and all other involuntary taxes. Let banks compete for the confidence of depositors...

[/quote]

... And he'd die in a fiery crash on his way to do the very first thing on the list!

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