At a minimum you should oil your firearms at least twice a year when in storage and clean and oil them after every shooting event. Powder residue is very corrosive and can cause barrel pitting. Copper trapped in the barrel can cause electrolysis with the barrel as well as trap corrosive material. Always use a super thin coat of oil as this can foul your weapon at a critical moment. Don't forget to inspect your field stripped firearm from time to time with a magnifying glass. Look for chips, nicks, rust, pitting, and corrosion. If your semi-auto jams frequently and it is neither due to a wimpy grip (yes, the slide needs SOMETHING to work against) or ammo that doesn't agree with your gun (JHP and Springfield 1911A .45 ACP don't get along), then consider replacing the springs. Should have spare spring on hand anyways. Don't forget to oil and polish the exterior too. Always store your guns with a thin coat of oil in the barrel. Some of mine are 10 years old and when you look down the barrel they shine!
See my post on the previous page regarding essential maintenance supplies. Aaron, Greg, Dogpile R_Eddy, Larry, Mike P, and others may want to add to this list and these ideas.
Thanks for post, MG,
I'm pretty up on that stuff, just like an electronic back-up to remind me of some dates and acqusitions. It occurs to me that a home inventory program that I have may let me put some of that inventory on it.
FYI, you can get a free CD from T. Rowe Price that will let you record virtually every aspect of personal, financial, and owned-object data. I started it a long while back, got distracted...time to find it again and complete.
Gandhi: you mean you don't like to fire your guns after doing this to them?? http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
Man this sounds stupid.
Mike. I think I am going to be sick.
AND SO IT BEGINS…
We all wondered when it was going to start.
"It is an end-run around Congress. They don’t need to try to ban guns–they don’t need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit "assault" weapon sales.
Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless.
Think we jest?"
Aaron, have you heard about this, I'm looking for more info still.
I love that Glock torture test!
Personally, I find it remarkably re-assuring that my pistol will withstand anything I can, and quite a bit more.
The military ending sale of brass is not that big of a deal really. Only a few manufactures that I Know of use brass "seconds", Black Hills, HSM (High Standard Munitions) and a few other assorted "small" producers.
The bulk of the ammunition is "fresh", and largely uses recycled brass (as in melted, and recast) - which is, as I understand it, what the military intends to do with their brass now. DRMO typically slashes and melts equipment, and then sells the excess material to recycling plants. My bet would be that this is more fiscally benficial to the DOD - as that is their basis for every descision made.
The militaries "judgement" on these issues has been poor lately. The new Ceramic ammunition (Also known as Frangible) contains Silicone which is more toxic than lead.
Is definately true - but will probably be pre-empted by intrepid capitalists who can find ways around laws.
My last thought on the matter is that it won't really matter what "laws" exist if the mortal wounds inflicted on the country aren't addressed - which it doesn't look like they will be. The 30,000 brass cases are a drop in the bucket.
Literally billions of rounds are produced in this nation annually.
Does anyone use a Milt Sparks holster?
I'm looking for the most comfortable IWB, small of back RH for a Kimber Ultra Carry II. I never actually carry this dude because of the weight, but it is my favorite by far. I'm thinking I am going to transition over to it and leave the KelTec P3AT in the safe if I can find a really comfortable rig. Summer is coming, so it's gotta be a good holster or the gun will get left at home.
Any advice? I hear really good things about the Sparks, but I have never laid hands on one and hate to buy over the internet without a thumbs up from someone I trust...
RE Milt Sparks holsters (Versa Max I&II, Summer Special) are considered the "premium" in leather tie-downs.
I've handled them, and would buy them with absolute confidence, but I'm a "kydex" guy these days for a few reasons, which I'll touch on briefly.
Before we get to the "benefits" of the leather, a couple things;
- Leather "attracts" and holds moisture, as does nylon.
- Leather has more "girth" than kydex, which is important when carrying Inside the Waistband (IWB)
That said, Leather is smooth, breaks in, provides an excellent service life, is less prone to damage during harsh temperatures (extreme cold, which is a problem with Kydex - especially injection molded kydex) and finally - is exceptionally classy looking.
Kydex is noisy, and drawing and reholstering definately provides a "sound signature", which isn't a huge concern, but is a valid point when deciding. Leather is nearly silent.
Kydex however, better at 'shrugging off' a maritime climate, which helps keep your pistol dry and prevents rust.
Now, on to Milt Sparks; when it comes to leather holsters for pistols, especially the 1911, Milt Sparks is the way to go.
His quality, design, and components are all Industry Standard.
The only "detractor" is the waiting period.
When I considered the Milt Sparks (Summer special IWB) a couple years back, it was about 3 months.
Also, through some trial and error - the Summer Special is "non-tuckable", which means you cannot tuck a shirt over the pistol/holster, due to the way it mounts. Note the "loops" that go "over" the belt, making it so you can't tuck a shirt in over the loops.
The Versa-Max II, however can be tucked. While not always "optimal" - I dig options. You never know when you'll have to go from working outdoors to a dinner obligation, and it's nice to be able to transition to "deep" concealment without needing a second holster;
Note the loops that are not connected to the main holster body.
My advice is if you're "sold" on Leather - which for the 1911, I think is a great choice (it makes for a smooth draw!) Milt Sparks is "tops".
I hope this helps!
I've handled them, and would buy them with absoluteconfidence, but I'm a "kydex" guy these days for a few reasons, which I'll touch on briefly.
Thanks Aaron. I can always depend on a 100% complete answer from you!
First, let me say I very seldom carry. 3 times a year is a lot for me. When I do, it is a Kel-Tek P3AT, a pistol I don't overly like to shoot, but the package is so small and light that I can tolerate it, or rather forget about it for the most part. I have never been able to achieve that with my Kimber Ultra Carry II, my all time favorite pistol. Logically, it just makes sense to carry the Kimber in the case where I do carry. Something tells me I will be carrying far more in the future than I do now, and I want to take the time to work it out now. I really appreciate your time and advice to help me sort this out.
OK, I've decided to get a versa max and a kydex and see which one works best for me. What kydex would you recommend for a 3" 1911? My dad has a Serpa that is too big for mine, (he has the 5" Kimber) and it is a really nice rig, but it is a paddle and is more designed with duty in mind. I'm looking for a small of the back CCW. Is that where you carry?
For what it's worth, I have a kydex ankle holster for both my P3AT and my 3" Kimber. I can't seem to make the Kimber comfortable no matter what I do, it is just too heavy. The Kimber just flops around and feels like I am working out with ankle weights. On the other hand, after about 10 minutes, I forget I have the P3AT unless I hit it with my strong ankle. Both holsters are identical except for the kydex form.
No matter what I do, I cannot seem to get comfortable with a full size 1911 in anything other than a non-concealed carry, i.e strong side paddle holster. Since I am not military or LE, all large frame pistols stay in my range bag or in the safe. Up to this point, even the 3" 1911 did too.
I hope I'm not trying to put a square peg in a round hole here. I have always been partial to the 45ACP, and I have a really nice inventory of components and finished rounds, so I would prefer I stay with that cartridge, but perhaps I need to look at a (*shriek*) polymer carry pistol???? I really don't prefer DAO pistols...
Glad to help my friend!
So, lets look at a few different concerns you've got:
The Serpa... this holster is an anomoly - GREAT marketing - terrible product.
Blackhawk has a real "turd" here with this design and the main reason is their Locking system. It doesn't really effect the "casual" carrier - but when held up against good ole Murphy, they're found wanting. The main problem is that the lock is gummed up by minimal debris. Mud, sand (especially sand) dirt - it'll make the holster "lock".
Insofar as "small of the back", or SOB carry - I carry very nearly that. "Carry" positions are typically refered to in "clock" positions; the direction you're facing is "12 O'Clock" - for example, Appendix carry is between 11-2 o'clock. "strong side" is typically between 3 and 4. SOB is considered 6 or thereabouts.
I typically carry about 4:30 - for my build, this allows me to keep the pistol from "printing" (producing a visible signature) and still provides a fairly smooth draw. The main problem with 6 O'Clock carry is that I try and dress in "lines", so I can add gear that compliments the previous line without interfereing with it. I can do a thread on this if there is any interest.
Carrying at 6 O'Clock almost precludes wearing a backpack, and if you roll back and fire from a supine position - it will hurt.
For SOB carry, or even strong side - I prefer a IWB (inside the waistband) rig. The main reason for this is that it is much easier to conceal for everyday wear, and it still provides a decent draw stroke. In addition to that, it allows you to worry less about dressing around you pistol, and you can still fire from supine or wear a pack (and get to your pistol).
So far as getting used to carrying full sized pistols - a lot of this has to do with your build, your dress style and what you want to carry. A lot of times, a good cant on your holster will help you conceal the pistol if you carry at 3 O'Clock.
So - to give the "short answer" - for a Kydex I'd recommend the following:
- For a 1911: Raven Concealment Phantom
- For a Glock 19: Comp-Tac C.T.A.C.
I'm a dyed in the wool 1911 guy - I love the pistol, I love the caliber, and in a perfect world, it'd be all I'd ever need. But the reality of situations like Mumbai make it necessary to be a little over-prepared. When I arm up in the morning, it's nice to have 31 rounds of 9mm in two magazines rather than 22 of .45 in 3 magazines.
If you decide to go Polymer, especially with a Glock - get a 9mm. It's the caliber it was designed around, and there are almost zero reported issues (Kabooms, malfunctions and stoppages) with these.
I'm with you on that. While watching the guy do this to his gun strikes me as incredibly stupid, it makes me feel all that more confident in my Glock.
Ok, I've read this at least 5 times now.
Short answer, the Raven does not come in my size, I think. So far this is pretty typical, and one of the reasons I am re-thinking my choice to stay with the 3" 1911. I have the same problem of not being able to find the perfect holster for my Baby Eagle, a nice .45 Israeli gun, but not overly common. I have never carried it because all I can get are 1 size fits all holsters for it. Maybe I just need to go more mainstream with the whole rig. I suppose 9mm won't kill me. I also held a Walther PPS yesterday, and that seemed reasonably sized to carry. Still heavy tho.
I may be over-thinking this, but I want to get a rig that I will actually want to carry and one I like to shoot.
Thx again, I need to stew on this for a while.
Maybe Dogs has some input? He's been kinda quiet lately, Cat got his tongue?
Hear hear! Where is Dogs?
You might also look into the S&W M&P.
If I weren't already invested in the Glock - I think these are probably the best choice apart from a Glock or a 1911.
A mentor of mine who was a prior Marine Recon Operator has traded his Glocks in on them.
That's a strong endorsement in my opinion, as his word carries a lot of weight with me.
Let us all know what you decide!
Hello everybody -
Dogs is in San Diego for work. The problem with working in a secure facility is no personal laptops. Got together this evening with a close friend - company mate and classmate from the Naval Academy who I haven't seen in 25 years. Lots of phone calls and Christmas cards but an east coast subarminer and a west coast destroyer guy just don't get the opportunity to visit much. Anyway, lots of catching up to do, many beers hoisted to memories and shared experiences as well as classmates passed made for an early bedtime. Flying back to VA tomorrow - and should be back on the grid all up round tomorrow evening.
I don't hate the DAO pistols, but I do have a Glock already that isn't my favorite due to the long and weighty trigger pull. I am spoiled by the match grade trigger on my Kimbers, and I have just learned to compare everything against them. SA pistols seem to improve my results, but I'm sure I can overcome that should I desire to.
Perhaps I should just do a trigger job on the G30 I have and try carrying it for a while. Although, then I am back to the holster issue, for whatever reason the G30 is not mainstream enough to produce all the aftermarket stuff.
This is the circular argument I feel like I am in all the time. I guess I need to look outside the 45ACP, perhaps a G19. They seem so ubiquitous, and I can gear up for 9mm too I suppose.
That's gotta hurt,
Glad to hear your opinion of the S&W M&P, that is what my wife and I have in 9 mm. Thinking abut getting the compact veriosn although the dealer suggested get the .40 as he said it would handle very similar but have more power. In your opinion, would the .40 be significantly better or is the 9 mm good ebough. If I stay weith 9 mm will need less different ammo types.
Well, it's not exactly what we have discussed, but I got a Walther (S&W) PPS in .40.
I went to the gun shop and spent a serious amount of time, just holding and holstering several guns. I tried the M&P, G19, (actually several Glocks), 1911 and variants, ad nauseum. My goal was a light, thin weapon that I would actually carry and feel good enough about to call it my favorite. I also wanted something a little heavier than .380, and something with a better sight radius and sights than the Kel-Tek P3AT. The PPS seemed to sit in my hand (I have above average sized hands, XXXL in gloves) perfectly and was so thin I could wear it with the same space considerations as my blackberry. Also, it's 1/2 the price of most of my handguns! Since it is a S&W, I walked away impressed. My only cons were the mag release ( a lever as part of the trigger guard - weird) and the low magazine capacity.
Then I went to the internet and started the research. I know the .40 is a good round, so I focused on the PPS. On average, it seems to get high ratings. It is not perfect, it doesn't pack a lot of rounds per mag, but I know myself and I know I would not actually carry a gun that holds 15 rounds - too big. Gotta be honest with myself. Also, it would be easier on my ammo budget to get a .45, but the .40 is an equally effective round, and who can see what will be more available or requested in the future of my little town? Doesn't hurt to diversify.
So, as this is a compromise, I feel it is the best I can do right now, so I bought it today. Although I have not fired it, already love the look and feel. I suppose that's how marriages start, but please don't tell my wife I compared her to a .40, she's at least a .45!
I have 2 kydex and 1 leather (actually horse hide, they say it is more water resistant than leather) holster on the way. I'll provide a review once I get them if anyone is interested. The Wilt Sparks order desk is down until April 1 due to too many orders, but I intend to try one of those too, if I can ever get my hands on one. Your favorite kydex is not yet available in PPS, but I'll keep an eye on that too. For me, I think the holster is at least 1/2 the battle, so I won't skimp here.
Now I have to go get new dies for my reloading press in .40. I suppose I can live with that.
Anyhow, I want to thank you for the input. That goes for Dogs too. While I didn't get the exact model you recommended, your comments guided me more than is obvious with my choice. Last month, there would have been zero % chance that I selected a poly DAO S&W for my new companion. And to get away from .45ACP, why would I do that? Even mules can change their minds given constant, gentle pressure to move in s different direction!
Range report (with pictures!) would be great!
May it serve you well, and I'm glad to have helped.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the .40. When I was working in a gunshop in my youth, we did lots of repairs on blown extractors in .40 caliber pistols. They generate a lot of chamber pressure, and it's very tough on the internals.
At one point we had one pistol from every "major" manufacturer in the shop; 2 Berettas, an H&K, a Sig, and 2 Rugers.
A lot of this has to do with overpressure handloads - it'll void more than your warranty - so make sure if you do go with .40S&W - you don't try and push it too far. The cartridge is "pushing it" as it is with regards to pressure and ballistics.
Ballistically, it is a touch better than the 9mm, and has a much better capacity than the .45 - so it's a "winner" in that department.
I do a lot of rapid fire, support side firing, single hand firing and so on - so for me, I like less recoil and more ammo.
Cheaper ammunition and the above makes the 9mm a winner for me.
That said, my best advice is get something you'll actually carry. Get a good holster, and when you take your trousers off at night - leave the holster on so it's there for you when you get dressed in the morning. The train!
It'll be uncomfortable at first (training AND carrying!), but that's the code.
It could save your life, and the lives of others.
I currently have 4 Mosin Nagants and do think they make a good first high power rifle. They fire a 7.62x54R round which is relatively inexpensive at about 25 cents per. The come in several styles including a long rifle and various carbines (shorter barrel). The carbines make a good base to build a scout rifle from.
Another option is an SKS. It fires the same round as an AK, but is more conventional in configuration. They are a relatively cheap semi-automatic rifle at about half the cost of an AK. If you are beginning shooting, buy a decent .22 rifle to learn technique with. Either the AK, Mosin or SKS will have a significant kick and can lead to some bad habits when shooting.
Thank you Aaron for your expert opinion,
I will stick with 9 mm. I also agree re: training and getting used to carrying. Will be taking the CCDW class within the next month so I can do that (the carrying). My wife and I are training now and will need to take more defensive training too.
For a non AR 308 -
What are recommendations on a good semi-automatic 308 with good capacity and reliability?
Would like everyone's thoughts on -
1. Best 308 rifle for all around use
2. Mossberg 590SP 12ga 20" 9 Shot CB
3. Taurus 5 Round 9MM w/2" Barrel Revolver
Since your close to the Portland metro area I was wondering if you knew an experienced gunsmith who could look over a FN FAL that is local. I'm also looking for another Imbel reciever for my last parts kit. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
The only "local" gunsmith I know is Mike Feiss at Brightwater Ventures in Vancouver. He's a "stand up" guy, but I'm not certain the level of experience he has with the FN FAL.
I'm confident in recommending Jim Fuller of Rifle Dynamics, but he isn't cheap - and he's not local. His shop is in Nevada (or was, he moved very recently).
Sorry I can't give you any good news, but the FAL receivers are hen's teeth right now.
If you can find one, they're costing near $400. Your "best" bet is to get on a waiting list at a reputable receiver supplier; DSArms, Dan Coonan, ARS... There's no way to say how much it'll cost for certain, because of the political climate.
If you want, I can give Mike a call tomorrow and ask him about his stock and his ability to "build" a FAL rifle... I know his backlog is measured in months at present.
I'm not sure if anyone else wants to chime in, but...
1. 308 Rifle - My personal preference is the FN FAL - but poor quality control, shoddy worksmanship and mixing inch and metric pattern parts has created a market of "bad" rifles. Be very careful if you buy one, and your best bet is going with a "reputable" American rifle - IE - DSArms.
The M14/M1A is also not a bad choice, but the common M1A's receivers' are cast, and no longer forged, which greatly decreases their overall durability. A Forged M14 rifle (semiauto) will cost you right around $200 - and honestly, it's not that great. Mags are also quite expensive - $20-50.
The G3 is a "decent" choice, and like the FAL poor quality kits on the market have reduced the overall supply of good rifles. That said, magazines are very cheap - and you can find 20 round mags for $5-10 each.
The AR-10 is kind of a Niche rifle; it's got a loyal following, despite being very pricy. If you're familiar with the AR platform, it's a great choice, but stickershock may apply... magazines can start at around $50, and most are sold at around $65/ea.
If you're in the market for a Bolt, the Savage 10FP has a good reputation for being a great "out of the box" rifle.
When faced with the descision, my wife went with the Remington 700 LTR, as it has an undeniable reputation for being very robust and has excellent accuracy.
2. Shotgun - The 590 is an improvement on the Mossy 500/500A, and it definately is a better choice in my opinion - rifle rights (ghost rings) are a great asset, and I think they're good shotguns. I'm not a huge fan of the external ejector, as it can be more prone to stoppages. Another "nice" feature is the ambidexterious safety.
Before I go any further (addressing the Taurus) what are you looking for in a pistol?
Carry gun? Nightstand gun? Backup gun?
The same question could help direct advice about rifles too!
Thank you Aaron,
On pistols, it will be for a carry and/or back-up gun. Ultimately I aim to get a S&W M&P 9mm compact as the primary carry gun but these seem to be in short supply around here. I have started to look on Gunbroker. So, the Taurus would truly be a back up piece.
On the rifle, I do have a DPMS AR 308. So, to have a another rifle focused on hunting I would like to stick with the same caliber. I like semi-automatics but am considering lever action and maybe bolt action so your top picks on those categories is appreciated.
As a general comment, a appreciate your willingness to share and spare those of us less expereinced the needless purchase of less reliable or porr quality guns.
Glad to help, my friend!
Between myself and a couple close friends, I've seen just about every type of legally owned firearm in America in some form of action; typically military 3-gun or IDPA.
I've learned a lot of the hard lessons, and seen a lot of fairly dramatic failures and tried to get to the bottom of them.
For a manual .308 - I think the Remington 700 is the finest design on the market. Uses the Mauser locking breech - which is extremely secure and has great ergonomics. The rifles are built using high quality materials, and most come glass bedded and free floated. Not a "cheap" rifle, but a good one.
The Savage 10FP is a good alternative for a bit less coin. The accu-trigger really shines, and the rifle is a bit lighter, but it feels less robust to me. I haven't had any time behind this rifle, but a buddy I trust says that they're great shooters out of the box. I think they may even come with a scope - which the Remington 700 does not. This can be a huge expense.
I love lever actions as brush or homestead guns, but until recently, all the cartridges for them had to be soft points, and round nose so as not to cause a detonation, so .308 was out. They do make it now, but it's a special cartridge.
That said, I would still prefer a level action, such as the Marlin above, or the Winchester 94 series in a caliber it was made for - such as the .30-'30, or the 32 Winchester Special. That way, if you ever have to "scavenge" cartridges, you're not looking for an ultra rare round that no one has.
For a backup gun - my personal preference is get a smaller version of your carry gun;
If you're carrying a 1911 - get a commander's frame 1911 (stay above 3" barrels though - less than that and you're looking for mechanical and reliability problems)
If you're carrying a Glock - get a subcompact (G26/27 etc)
If you're going with the M&P, get their compact.
That way, the skill you build won't change, you'll have magazine interchangability, and most parts can be used in either pistol as well, should one malfunction or break. Same caliber is also desirable.
Let me know if this helps, and feel free if you've got any other questions!
Aaron. I have a Remington 700 CDL .30-06. I can attest that the 700 is one fantastic firearm. Simple, rugged, reliable as hell.
I give it a 5 stars. That's not something that comes lightly either.
Gotta marry it with Carl Zeiss optics though.
I shoot a flea's eye out at 500 meters.
Given your experience I wonder if you've run across CZ pistols and what you think of them. I've heard a lot of good things but it's mostly third hand information - I have yet to meet someone in person who owns one.
I have a H&K P2000 (bought before your statement about them supporting the ban - got a great price on it used, might have bought it anyway) and a Bushmaster M4A3 as well as several 'inherited' pistols and rifles, all 22LR caliber.
I'm not unhappy with the HK but am not a huge fan of the DAO trigger. It's actually no problem during rapid fire, but I find the first trigger pull is always awkward for me - basically I haven't fired it enough to get really used to it. Still, I've been thinking about the CZ SP-01 as I hear its rugged and very accurate, high capacity, and has a DA/SA trigger with which I'm already more comfortable.
The primary purpose of getting it is for fun/range use. Secondary would be as a 'nightstand' pistol (I'd use the HK for carry), and third would be a primary combat pistol in an end of the world scenario.
My time frame is a couple of months, so I'm in no rush. Curious to know what you think.
Honestly, I've got zero hands on with any of the CZ pistols.
I've heard good things about them as well - but several things concern me, even if it is just a "fun" gun:
1. Availibility of magazines; None are domestically produced. If you do end up needing it in a collapse, you may find that there are no spares available - and without magazines, you've got a single shot pistol, that's a pain to load.
2. Availability of spare parts; Exactly the same concern as with magazines, but think of broken extractors, ejectors, firing pins and so on... They may be banned (import ban), or they may just not be available due to a collapse, either way - no easy fix, and none are available domestically. Pistol isn't common enough to scavenge spare parts from other unserviceable pistols.
3. Price; for the SP-01, you'll be putting in right around $600. For that price, you could be into an M&P, SiG (possibly), Glock, Beretta M9, or 1911; all of which have production plants here, and all of which you can get spare parts for. In the case of the Beretta and M1911, magazines were produced in the hundreds of thousands for the military - lots in circulation.
The Glocks and M&Ps are issued to Police and DOJ. Lots of them in circulation.
As far as H&K's position on selling to humans, and not entities - that's secondary to the fact that they make fine weapons. There's no shame in carrying one :D
If you're looking to get away from that ugly trigger pull on the DAO's, you might try playing around with a 1911. The single action is far and away the most comfortable for most shooters... especially if your H&K is a .45.
Just some thoughts.
Welcome, and Cheers!
thanks for your quick response. Unfortunately, the HK is a 9mm and it's a caliber I'm comfortable with (and chose also because I know it is *widely* produced). I've looked into 9mm 1911 style pistols and have yet to find one. I'm sure they exist, but I'm dubious anyway about getting one in a caliber that it wasn't originally designed for. As you say, replacement parts, if nothing else, may be an issue. Ultimately I'd love to have a proper 1911 .45 for the menagerie but my priority at the moment is a nice 9mm SA trigger pistol.
Ironically, some of your points were reasons why I was looking into the CZ at the moment - it's rarity of use makes it generally available at dealers who are quickly selling out of about everything they can get. Sometimes, though, I'm a little too contrarian for my own good and I hadn't been considering the maintenance aspect of an end of the world scenario. Perhaps the best strategy, moving forward, is looking harder at the sigs. My 'summer home' is an hour from their factory (and this is where I'll find myself if things start to go pear shaped) and I'd planned on taking some training courses there this summer anyway. My preconception of them is $1500+ to start, but perhaps I'm not looking in the right direction. Do you have a favorite?
I like your recommendation of the M&P as well. I've fired a glock before and have decided against it (I may eventually get one for the 'menagerie' but it would be entirely because of its popularity and for use as a last resort firearm. Who knows, I could fall in love with it, but it wasn't love at first sight), but have never had the chance to handle or fire one of those. I will check it out if I run across one, though.
Like I say, my time frame is a couple of months; plenty of time to bounce some ideas.
In for me I've been using this exact these exact price
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