The Definitive Firearms Thread

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Gungnir
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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Covering several things at once

First thing...

Glocks :) The good they're a Glock, the bad they're a Glock.

One important thing to remember about Glock's and their Polyhedral rifling, you need to fire Jacketed bullets through a Glock to keep within warranty. If you're planning on moulding your own bullets and reloading, you should consider getting a replacement with land and groove rifling, recommend you read this faq. You can pick up a replacement barrel for about $99 here's a link for Google shopping

I personally am an Springfield XD fan, it shoots better for me, since it has the right grip angle. But it's a polymer frame handgun in the typical style (although with a regular rifled barrel). I was quite disappointed when I found something that worked better for me than a Glock

Secondly...

Holsters, interestingly Aaron recommended a Comp- Tac CTAC, I use a Comp-Tac MTAC maybe I'm just a little more sensitive on my waist, but I hate the feeling of Kydex on my skin, but it's for carrying a full sized Springfield XDm. From my experience of gun forums both the CTAC and the MTAC are the IWB holsters that are the current top of the line, as much as anything can be in the firearms world. Meaning that ask 20 gun owners their opinion on something gun related and you'll get 20 opinions back, the CTAC and MTAC climb above that background noise.

thirdly...

I would not recommend porting, maybe I'm just a stick in the mud, but I can't see any real advantages and several disadvantages, if I point the gun at something and pull the trigger, everything I need to worry about is directly in front of the sights and muzzle, adding holes that mean I have to look to both sides too, is not my idea of fun.. Here's a link of a possible real world scenario where a ported barrel is a definite negative.

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

The HKP7M8 was also made in forty smith and wesson, but it is out of production at this time thus the high prices. Also out there is the HK P7M13 9mm with a 13 rd mag, out of production also- price about 2000, but also one hell of a gun.

Caliber choice is a tough subject. Really with the variety of factory 9mm one should not have much problem stopping a threat...there is always that one case... but an old warrior told me once to carry the most gun you can handle....I guess that is a good rule to follow in caliber selection.

Don't forget to focus on the front sight....most important aspect of shot placement...

I am amazed that a 9mm would not penetrate a car door-even an old school door.. hardball would have I think unless fired at a great distance/angle.

My carry caliber is .357mag, a proven penetrator and thug stopper from way back., I'll have 5 for sure, and that is enough for most encounters....

 

Larry

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Lots of replies!

Larry,

Thanks for your comments, I'm always interested to see what you have to say on the subject. You seem to be an experienced guy, and it's always nice to talk shop. Vickers and Hackathorn definately know their stuff - no doubt about that. I spent a lot of time looking for the perfect gun, and never found one. The Glock does everything well enough, and carries nicely. That's my only "interest" in it - in terms of "like" - the only pistol I really like is the 1911. In a perfect world, that's all I'd ever want/need :D

Jarhett,

With regards to "cheap" ammo - I shoot wolf excuslively for training and I've never had an unintentional malfunction with my Glock - I've had 3 with my 1911, and 2 with my Beretta (including one where the projectile lodged itself in the barrel! Bad news). With the Glock 34's in 9mm, I've seen several stovepipes, and Failure to feeds... The H&K is definately a reliable gun.

His statement, (itemized and answered)

Quote:
The round is also important. 1. the 9MM is used by many, but too many people do not stop when hit with it. 2. Some people have to be hit several times for the desired effect to be realized.  The 40 is better, but still has the same problem. 3. The 45 has a much higher incident of one shot stops.

1.True of all rounds. The mitigating factor isn't caliber, but placement.

2. True of all rounds. There are journal pages taken from the Civil war complaining about the .58 caliber rifles lack of "stopping power". The truth is, it doesn't exist. Humans are resiliant, and the difference between the 9mm and the .45 is .05". To take this point further, the .45 actually moves slower than the 9mm - which decreases it's penetration.
Observations can be useful, but the science is against it. In environments that test everything as equals, the .40 and .45 perform better than the 9mm - but so marginally that it's not an issue worth worrying about.

3. Now this is where sacred cows get slaughtered, because there is almost ZERO evidence to prove that the .45 is superior. A read a report from a Special Forces medic talking about wound ballistics, and he said they can't even tell the difference between a 9mm and a .45ACP wound canal. I was reared on the ".45 is a mans caliber!" nonsense, but the reality is, it's just another pistol caliber, and none of them are very good. With that in mind, I'd prefer to have 15 rounds to 8.
A great source of information regarding wounding and caliber is "Surgical Speed Shooting", by Andy Stanford. It dispels a lot of the caliber myths, and gives some good information.

The only time caliber figures in for me (YMMV) is when considering whether or not the gun was designed around the cartridge, and when considering capacity.

The .45 is an excellent cartridge, and I'd probably choose a hi-capacity .45 if I could spend $25+ per box to train with it.
As it sits now, the 9mm does nicely, is more affordable, and is mass produced the world around.

Gungnir,

With regards to holsters, I wear an undershirt. That's my solution =)
The MTAC didn't have an offering for a pistol with attached light when I bought mine, otherwise, I think you're correct in saying that would be the more comfortable holster.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Aaron Moyer wrote:

Sam,

Glad to help you my friend!
If you're interested, I'd be happy to go to the range with you and go through some TTP's (Tactics, Techniques and Procedures)

Cheers!

Aaron

I would like to take you up on that offer. Shoot me an off-line email when you have a chance and let's talk about options/schedules, etc.

Wow - I feel like I'll be training with a dojo master! Surprised

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Ghandi is now Pete.  Aaron has a new photo.

Stop, I can't take any more changes in this world! 

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Mike Pilat wrote:

Sam: I am a recent G19 owner and while I can't hope to follow up with the information that Aaron has, but I've put about 1500 rds. through mine so far and it has worked flawlessly. Further, I found that it is a good size and weight that feels good in my hand save for one thing: the grip itself. Like Aaron, I initially did not like the grip at all. It's not devastating, it just isn't as ergonomic as some of the other pistols I've shot. It's not a big deal to adapt around it.Finally, as a relatively new gun owner, I found the G19 to be easy to clean and maintain. Also, the 15 round magazine seems to be an appropriate size when compared to the other options.

I strongly recommend it and if you have any second thoughts on a Glock, check out post #183 to see just how much abuse a Glock can (apparently) take. Stupid experiment and very dangerous for that person, but it only makes me feel better about mine!

Hey Mike,

Thanks for that good info. It's always useful to hear how different people take to a particular firearm.

I did check out post #183. Reminds me of the phrase, "Cruising for a bruising!" Having a basic firearm that is reliable is an important concern. I want to know that it can be bumped/banged about and still function without blowing up in my face!

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

larry wrote:

<snip>

Sam,

in response to an earlier post, it is best if no one knows you carry a concealed weapon...even your wife, properly concealed she would not even have to know.

Larry,

Just to update you and the others in this thread re my wife's dismay with my intent to buy a gun. Nothing more has been said on the matter. I think I'm just going to proceed with my purchase (hopefully on Thursday) and bring it home. I'm not going to try to hide it - there's too much trust between us for that. I think I can get her to tolerate its existence in the house (I'm also going to buy a gun safe).

Concealed carry may be a little trickier (will also have to wait on a cc permit - Oregon law says permits must be issued unless there's a good reason not to do so.). Perhaps, per your advice, I'll try it the first time or two without saying anything and see if she mentions it. If she does, of course I'll admit to it. That's when the rubber will hit the road! So, stay tuned.  Wink

larry wrote:

G19 is a good choice, I agree with aaron, and would not choose a ported weapon for carry... Porting may help you shave some time in competitions but really does nothing for the 9mm except make big flames out of the barrel at night...just practice as much as possible and incorporate some movement and postion variation in your practice routine...better yet go to a local school for an " entry level handgun class'. and put some lead downrange.

Larry

Good advice. Looks like Aaron may be able to help me do just that!

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Pete In Florida wrote:

Sam. How many firearms do you own?

Ohh guys. I changed my username. That's probably the only time that I'll change it as it can become annoying.

(This is Ghandi)

Hi Pete,

At this precise moment: ZERO.

I've been lucky enough to live in environments where I never felt the need to have one. Also, I didn't really want one before. Now that the world is turning upside down, I think it's a prudent purchase.

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Training with an expert instructor; way to go!

SG

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Gungnir wrote:

thirdly...

I would not recommend porting, maybe I'm just a stick in the mud, but I can't see any real advantages and several disadvantages, if I point the gun at something and pull the trigger, everything I need to worry about is directly in front of the sights and muzzle, adding holes that mean I have to look to both sides too, is not my idea of fun.. Here's a link of a possible real world scenario where a ported barrel is a definite negative.

Gungnir - that was a really interesting read. I'm sure glad Aaron and the rest of you guys pointed out the fallacies in having a ported weapon. And it seemed like such a good idea when I first read about it!  Embarassed

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Re: Fear of guns?

Just thought I'd add something to the thread for those of you who feel a bit of trepidation or fear around the thought of firearms. I grew up without any exposure to firearms and was basically afraid of them my whole life - up until recently that is. A few years ago a friend of mine who I respect dearly suggested I purchase a handgun to carry on hikes as I was hiking in an area where I had seen a mountain lion a few times. I went to our local range and tried out a few guns (scared as heck at first) and eventually purchased a .40 caliber Glock. Since then I have taken a few classes and become comfortable with my Glock as well as with an AR-15 and Remmington 870. Although I still plan to take more advanced training, I now have a basic understanding of firearms, how they work and their limitations (range, penetration) as well as their capabilities. I have also become comfortable shooting at our local outdoor range and met a variety of people while doing it. I guess what I am trying to say is that for those of you who feel afraid of or uncomfortable with firearms (like I did) I suggest taking a few classes and getting familiar with firearms because if things do get bad and as a result there is an increased presence or use of firearms, you will have at least become familiar with them which might allow you to think clearly and get to safety in a situation rather than freeze with fear because you hear shots or see a gun. Not saying you have to carry one, just saying that knowledge and experience might allow you to make a good decision in an otherwise potentially scary environment.

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

SamLinder wrote:

Just to update you and the others in this thread re my wife's dismay with my intent to buy a gun. Nothing more has been said on the matter. I think I'm just going to proceed with my purchase (hopefully on Thursday) and bring it home. I'm not going to try to hide it - there's too much trust between us for that. I think I can get her to tolerate its existence in the house (I'm also going to buy a gun safe).

Concealed carry may be a little trickier (will also have to wait on a cc permit - Oregon law says permits must be issued unless there's a good reason not to do so.). Perhaps, per your advice, I'll try it the first time or two without saying anything and see if she mentions it. If she does, of course I'll admit to it. That's when the rubber will hit the road! So, stay tuned.  Wink

My wife was totally anti-gun when I bought my 1911 last fall.  She had this mindset that just having it around was dangerous and that if you looked at it too hard, it would go off.  Also, I have two sons in the house, with the youngest being 12 and she had a real fear of what he would do if he had the chance to play with it while we were out of the house.  My plan to make her comfortable was to totally embrace the safety aspect of having a gun.  I made the boys learn the 4 rules of firearm safety and we live those.  They can, and do, recite them when asked.  The 1911 is always either being worn or is locked in a safe.  I also have a standing rule that anytime either of the boys want to see it, all they have to do is ask.  There is no mystery in it that way.  Getting her comfortable with the safety aspect was the key to getting her comfortable having it around.

Getting her used to me carrying it concealed was a little more difficult.  I think I was carrying it for about a month before she noticed and only then because I took her hand and put it on it.  It is something that took getting used to for her, but over the last several months, she has come to understand that we are totally safety concious and that does not just go bang randomly. 

One thing I do is to keep it concealed when carrying it.  I don't touch it, show it, play with it or anything else.  When concealed, it stays concealed.  The next step is to get her comfortable shooting it.   I bought a .22 revolver to introduce her to shooting and will eventually teach her how to shoot the .45 if she shows an interest.

Tim

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Hey Doc,

Quote:

Ghandi is now Pete.  Aaron has a new photo.

Stop, I can't take any more changes in this world! 

I thought the picture might have been giving me the "pompous" look. Thought I'd go for something a little more earthy, and less... well pompous looking! More my personality anyway ;)

Thanks for sharing those stories guys - I love reading those kind of accounts.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

think_it_through wrote:
SamLinder wrote:

Just to update you and the others in this thread re my wife's dismay with my intent to buy a gun. Nothing more has been said on the matter. I think I'm just going to proceed with my purchase (hopefully on Thursday) and bring it home. I'm not going to try to hide it - there's too much trust between us for that. I think I can get her to tolerate its existence in the house (I'm also going to buy a gun safe).

Concealed carry may be a little trickier (will also have to wait on a cc permit - Oregon law says permits must be issued unless there's a good reason not to do so.). Perhaps, per your advice, I'll try it the first time or two without saying anything and see if she mentions it. If she does, of course I'll admit to it. That's when the rubber will hit the road! So, stay tuned.  Wink

My wife was totally anti-gun when I bought my 1911 last fall.  She had this mindset that just having it around was dangerous and that if you looked at it too hard, it would go off.  Also, I have two sons in the house, with the youngest being 12 and she had a real fear of what he would do if he had the chance to play with it while we were out of the house.  My plan to make her comfortable was to totally embrace the safety aspect of having a gun.  I made the boys learn the 4 rules of firearm safety and we live those.  They can, and do, recite them when asked.  The 1911 is always either being worn or is locked in a safe.  I also have a standing rule that anytime either of the boys want to see it, all they have to do is ask.  There is no mystery in it that way.  Getting her comfortable with the safety aspect was the key to getting her comfortable having it around.

Getting her used to me carrying it concealed was a little more difficult.  I think I was carrying it for about a month before she noticed and only then because I took her hand and put it on it.  It is something that took getting used to for her, but over the last several months, she has come to understand that we are totally safety concious and that does not just go bang randomly. 

One thing I do is to keep it concealed when carrying it.  I don't touch it, show it, play with it or anything else.  When concealed, it stays concealed.  The next step is to get her comfortable shooting it.   I bought a .22 revolver to introduce her to shooting and will eventually teach her how to shoot the .45 if she shows an interest.

Tim

Tim,

Great post and great ideas! Sounds just like what I need to incorporate into my situation here. I think my wife may be just like yours in that she is probably afraid of it more than anything else. Also we watch our grandson 2-days a week so there's probably some concern in that area as well.

Following your guidelines will, I think, be very helpful in getting her through this. Thanks so much for posting your story!

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Aaron, Sam, Gandhi Pete, SG -

Tread lightly.  Mrs. Dogs is now packing heat.

She's visiting her parents in TN and called the other night to proudly inform me she is the owner of a new handgun.

Okay, not so new - it was her Dad's Mossberg .22 LR pistol.  Here's the cool part - he bought it in 1946 from the Spiegel Catalog and paid $30.  And he kept it in superb working order.

Of course we will have it checked out to make sure it's safe to shoot. 

Next thing I know she'll want an MP7 to keep the rabbits out of the garden.....

Out of the garden and into the stewpot.

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Aaron, Sam, Gandhi Pete, SG -

Tread lightly.  Mrs. Dogs is now packing heat.

She's visiting her parents in TN and called the other night to proudly inform me she is the owner of a new handgun.

Okay, not so new - it was her Dad's Mossberg .22 LR pistol.  Here's the cool part - he bought it in 1946 from the Spiegel Catalog and paid $30.  And he kept it in superb working order.

Of course we will have it checked out to make sure it's safe to shoot. 

Next thing I know she'll want an MP7 to keep the rabbits out of the garden.....

Out of the garden and into the stewpot.

Dogs,

On my first date with my wife, we went to a restaurant and she ordered Hassenpfeffer. That was almost our last date!

When Cat is ready to fire up the stew-pot:

Hassenpfeffer German Rabbit Stew Recipe

http://www.grouprecipes.com/10180/hassenpfeffer-german-rabbit-stew.html

Ingredients

1 large or 2 small rabbits, cleaned, skinned, and cut into pieces Marinade: 1/2 c. red-wine vinegar 1 1/2 c. water 1 c. dry red wine (I prefer a beaujolais to a heavier burgundy) 1 large or 2 medium onions, thinly sliced 1 t. salt 1 t. dry mustard 1 t. ground pepper 1 T. pickling spices 4 whole cloves 2 bay leaves flour, seasoned with salt and pepper 4 T. clarified butter sugar (start with 1 T.) 3 T. flour 1/2 c. sour cream 1/2 c. heavy cream

Directions

Mix the marinade,
bring to a boil, then simmer for an hour. Cool to room temperature.
Marinate the rabbit for at least a day (two is better).
Remove
the rabbit pieces and dry them. Dredge them in the seasoned flour and
brown in the butter on all sides. Strain the marinade and add it to the
rabbit, cover tightly, and simmer for an hour. Remove the rabbit and
place on a serving platter.
Add 1 T. sugar to the
broth and taste. Add additional sugar if necessary to get the balance
of sweet and sour you prefer. Blend the 3 T. flour with the cream and
sour cream and add it, stirring constantly, cooking for a couple of
minutes to thicken and remove the flour taste. Add salt and pepper to
taste, pour over the rabbit, and serve.
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Hold - what does it mean?

Here's the situation:

Ordered a pistol on-line on Monday to be shipped to my local dealer. Went to my local dealer yesterday and picked up a Saiga-12. When he called it in, there was a hold on me! They transferred him to the next level that cleared the hold and I was able to pick it up with no delay.

Question is why would a flag get triggered that would cause the hold the required a second level of review to be cleared? My local dealer said it was the ordering of the pistol that same week (even though the on-line dealer would not have my SSN, my home address and name would be there and could have been reported to the gov as part of their process). He said that since I picked up a long gun he thought they did not put a further hold on it to make me wait longer which they may have done if it was another hand gun. He also said that multiple transactions in the same 7 day period raises flags.

Finally, will be getting my CCDW permit ASAP as my local dealer also said that once you have that there is no need to call the purchases in to be cleared as you have already gone though the background check.

Your thoughts on this please. Is this typical?

Thanks,

Septimus

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

I always tread lightly around Mrs. Dogs, LOL.

I don't know that model but a lot of older American firearms were made with real craftsmanship, deep bluing, nice mechanical work..back when the U.S. actually made stuff and took pride in it instead of people buying cheap @#@$ from overseas.

Most topline firearms from overseas are excluded from cheap@#@#$ category! They're not even cheap!

SG

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

I forgot to post this cool sight and you can also subscribe to email from Mas Ayoob's blog:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/

SG

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Dogs,

Tell the missus I said "right on!"
They truly don't make things like they used to - if she takes care of that - your great grandchildren may be shooting the same pistol.

Sam,

That recipe taste good?
Sounds like it might, and we've got a few rabbits kickin' around...
I'll write it down for hard times ;) 

Septimus,

The NICS (National Instant Criminal Background System) Check is so overtaxed at present that it could be a multitude of problems.

If you've ever been in a fight - your name might be in the database and need to be "cleared" by an authority later.
If you've got a common name, they may need to validate your identity.
In general, there are so many people buying guns - they may not have had anyone available.

The good news is that they legally have to respond to your request within three business days.

Honest story - I went in (13 JAN) to buy an AR receiver - an investment. Walked in, paid cash, walked out.
One week later, Inaguration day, I did the same thing - walked in, filled out the paperwork, and was put on hold by NICS.

Why? No one knows. Probably sheer volume. I know I didn't get in trouble that week =)

Don't sweat it is my advice. Hangups are normal. If you've got your concealed weapons permit, most states (I know WA) will allow you "Cash and Carry".
PS - good call on the Saiga 12 - awesome little shotgun.

I hope this helps,

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Aaron Moyer wrote:

Sam,

That recipe taste good?
Sounds like it might, and we've got a few rabbits kickin' around...
I'll write it down for hard times ;) 

Aaron,

I don't know if it tastes good - I just copied it from the Internet for grins.

Besides, I refuse to eat Thumper! Cry

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

I just got a Browning BAR .30-06. For me I was looking for a high powered semi-auto. Still waiting for it though, had to be ordered.  

Don't know how good it will be for hunting. I have heard a lot of good feedback though in gun forums. See how my groups at 200 yards are when it gets here.

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Rabbit is good Sam, it taste just like chicken

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

[Ed. note:  Removed; out of context post]

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

SPM,

*whistle* I think that it will exceed your expectations. Great cartridge, great rifle.
Let us know what you think when you get it!

Sam,

Gotcha! If I don't have to eat Braer Rabbit, I won't =)
We raised them when I was growing up - didn't much care for the flavor.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

[Ed. note: Removed response to out of context post]

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Septimus,

I have a CCW and purchase firearms on a regular basis (great investment for the future!) and I get put on hold from time to time. Sometimes they call back to clear me within the hour, but due to the recent increase in sales, that does not happen any more...also they don't give any reason for the hold. I have been told many things- common name, military background with certain levels of clearance, etc.. My personal opinion is that the motivation of the gov't employee has a lot to do with it...they can choose to dig deeper to access all records avail or just defer to a hold and hit the coffee pot....

But don't worry about it- sometimes you may have to wait.. especially now that everyone is buying like crazy..

 MD ARMS makes a 20 rd drum for the saiga-12. Also a few types of hi-cap mags avail, (AGP arms, and Surefire) but you have to swap out some parts with US made parts to be 922compliant(BS Law) to use the hi-caps mag legally. Tapco makes a nice sliding stock with SAW-style pistol grip for about 60(cheaperthandirt.com) also the AK scope mounts work fine on the saiga-12. shooters do a lot of unique things with them.. go to Saiga-12.com it's a forum for saiga shooters. I have Tapco stock, red dot and 20rd drum mag on one of mine...very impressive firepower...watch this- not me by the way just off of net, plenty of examples if you look... 

SPM,

The BAR in 30'06 will be fine for hunting about anything in North America with proper shot placement and with a semi-auto you will have a second shot ready p.d.q.  All long as you can put rounds in a plate sized group you will make kills on deer and elk with no problems.(with practice group size should shrink dramatically) Go out this fall and get some.

 

 

Larry

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Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

Anyone have ammo recommendations for the BAR?

Its the BAR Lightweight Stalker .30-06. Aluminum receiver and 22" barrel. I didnt have enough for the BOSS, with steel receiver and I think 23" or 24" barrel.

150, 165, 180 or 210 grain and manufacturers? Because its a lightweight I was thinking lower grain? Any suggestions?

Thanks in Advance

Sean

 

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Posts: 241
Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

DK - The pros and cons of gun ownership. I haven't read all the posts on the thread, so maybe thats why I do not have the same feelings as you. I think that the majority of people that own firearms, respect them and the inherent deadly power. I personally have been shooting since I was 10 years old, so I was raised to be respectful. The feeling I get from most the posters on this site is that they are fairly educated, and care deeply about their country. These aren't the people you should be worried about.  

 

larry's picture
larry
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 16 2008
Posts: 51
Re: The Definitive Firearms Thread

SPM,

 I shoot the Federal Premium 165gr Sierra Gameking BTSP in 3006- but a model 700 bolt-action. very accurate-works fine for whitetails, just get a few boxes of various bullet weights and manufs. and go to the range....

 Nice gun though, very nice..

 

Larry

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