Crisis Simulation - "Is There A Doctor In the House?"

A bit off topic,but I suspect we'll be either in a "MadMax" or a "Waltons",scenario in the coming years.

Robie

husband,father,farmer,optometrist 

  We also learned  Kinesiology  seems WAY out there, but it works. 

  I was thinking that  a town council meeting would need to be called to asses the resources .   Our town has greenhouses that  grow flowers to distribute afar ,these could be used of growing food . We used to have a hatchery that might need be resurrected . Hopefully you all still have small meat locker operations . There are many people that just can't do this for them self .

Loved the  farmer videos you put up yesterday . BUY LOCAL .

You know I think we' USA 'has little to zero clothing  and shoes made here . This may be one of the things that takes a while to get back on line  when we run out of oil . Seems stupid that we ship the cotton overseas to be made into clothes to be shipped back .  Then when we are done with them we ship the used back overseas to clothe the  poor countries.    Right now it is supposed to be cheaper that way, but with little oil will it always ? Doubt it .  Our closets will not be overflowing  and  we would again need to watch  out for our own  sweatshops.

How did we get by before oil ? May need to think back that way if we can not find a replacement .  We will just keep fighting over the little bit left ,I am sure.

My wife is an RN and I have basic first aid training, so we have the skills at least for THESE situations I think.  Our first aid bag is substantial and very well stocked, so cleaning, disinfecting, and dressing the axe wound is doable.  Any possible infection from the wound would be much more problematic; strangely enough we do happen to have some Cipro, but not more than a couple week's worth I think and there's no guarantee this infection would respond to it.  But like Full Moon mentioned you can potentially use fish antibiotics from pet stores if you have any on hand.  Supposedly it's the same stuff used for humans and many people use it, but still it seems like the thing you'd only want to use in a life-and-death emergency when nothing else is available.  I'm less familiar with the antibiotics used for other animals and livestock like Lbart mentioned, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was also the same formulation as the human brands.  Anyway, it can't hurt to buy some now and store some in a proper environment just (and only) for a worst case scenario.  It's already on my "to do" list, but I think I'm going to bump it up on the priority scale and see if I can take care of that this weekend.  So make that another on the  "wish I did" list on Day -1.

As for the food poisoning, I don't think there's anything we could do except as Lbart mentioned keep them well hydrated and keep the fever down.  If she can't keep liquids down, maybe we can scavenge some IV's from the hospital or rig one up ourselves with products from the house and our first aid bag.

As for prevention, I don't have much.  Perhaps whoever is chopping wood can wear my Carhart biberalls and my boots... it'll be hot, but it's tough stuff and would offer some protection.  Also make sure people learn to recognize when they're getting too exhausted, which will make their movements sloppier.  A lot of accidents happen that way.  As for food poisoning, probably the best ways to prevent that is by ensuring there's alternate cooking fuel/methods available and by cutting any meat in smaller, thinner slices that have less chance of having undercooked center portions (it would likely save on cooking fuel too).  And using some of the available alternate methods of preserving meat and creating an underground storage cellar may help keep food from spoiling too fast.

- Nickbert

Since the poor pharmacist has passed on is it ok to take penicillin from the pharmacy? Penicillin is one pharmaceutical that has truly saved many lives. Of course there are other ways to treat infection but a dose of Pen would be good insurance assuming the loved one wasn't allergic.

First aid kit (JAG's suggestions look good, I personally own one of the large kits he recommended), CPR mask and training, first aid books.

Maybe befriending the local docs, nurses, respiratory therapists, herbalists, botanica owners, etc.. by bringing them a chicken  or head of cabbage here or there?

I am following this thread and it is scary but so on target. It reminds me of "the stand" without all the hocus pocus and with a bunch more people.

Bactim is a good antibiotic to stock instead of pennicillin (if you aren't allergic to sulfa) since most staph is resistant to pennicilling now.  About 70 percent of staph is MRSA now (Methacillin Resistant Staph Aureau) due to overuse of antibiotics.

Surgical axiom: is all bleeding stops.

main thing is pressure.  then pressure some more. till bleeding stops then make sure the wound is clean. wash out the oil and sawdust etc with saline (water with a little salt in it).  Sew tissue to tissue that matches.

In both cases the main thing is pushing fluids on both victims.  Even if the child is vomiting. they will hold down more than they throw up.  Pedialyte is an over the counter resuscitation fluid that tastes like crap but is cheap and easy to store.

Just thought of something...I knew an old timer...who said when he was a child he cut the bottom of his foot very badly and deeply across the arch from one side to the other, while playing barefoot near some railroad tracks.  He grew up poor in the country, and didn't have money for medical care.  His uncle cleaned the outside of the wound as well as possible and filled it with "coal oil."  He then wrapped it up and left it wrapped until it healed on its own.  Anyone ever heard of anything like this, or think this has any merit?  I don't have any coal oil, but maybe I should find some to keep around...

Hide your valuables and join them until they're gone.

Thoughts on the migrating mob: most of them probably won't complete the journey if it is that long, and those that do will not likely have serious weapons (too heavy to carry?) and will be exhausted--not much of a "force".  Depending on how many actually arrive, it may be possible to share some resources with them as a community (if a cohesive one is developing) ....this is the civilized thing to do, but it has dangers.  I can't imagine myself being cruel enough to attack them or tell them to go away knowing they are most likey to die soon....OK so I'm probably being optimistic here, but as I play it out I don't see them as anything more than pitiful upon arrival.

The silence on this one is deafening....

A Rich Man is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least!

Refugees - As others here have said, not all of the refugees fleeing the nearby city (heck maybe not even half of them) will make it as far as our town if it's more than 3 days walk or so, and most that do arrive will be in a weakened state.  Some will without a doubt be armed, but with limited mobility (no vehicles) and being weakened from their ordeal, they will not be an ideal position to ransack the town unless they come in overwhelming numbers (tens or hundreds of thousands).  The best thing to do in any case would be to close off or create security checkpoints at as many access points into town as possible.  Then get an inventory of the town's resources and see how many people could be sustained until the next major growing season, but it sounds questionable (at least right now) that the town at large is cohesive and cooperative enough to do this.  So instead do the same with just our local community... see how much our community has and how many people we can support through the winter assuming minimal additional food coming in (via hunting, fishing, or winter gardening).  Then call an emergency town meeting and see if we can get most of the rest of the town to follow along.  At this point there are several possible scenarios:

1) We have an excess supply of food/water that can sustain most or all coming refugees at least through the winter months

I don't see this as highly likely but we can hope this is the case.  Some steps to take include brainstorming ideas for finding shelter for refugees (schools or closed shops and buildings), figure out a bare minimum food plan that should sustain them, and find any unused land that can be prepared for any winter crops and the next major growing season (seems most people here live in temperate zones so I'm assuming that's the case here).  Establish a main town checkpoint for taking names and information (career, job skills, physical ability, special needs) of any refugees not continuing on to other locations, and direct them to whatever area we've established to feed and house them.  Weapons are a tough call.... ethical reasons aside, confiscating weapons from the refugees is a recipe for disaster.  Maybe establish a protocol (rigidly and harshly enforced) for bringing firearms into town; unloaded open carry only (magazines and ammo must be carried separately) with a visible colored-ribbon ("a peace knot") tying the gun to the holster or (if a rifle/shotgun) tied so as to block the chamber.  It wouldn't stop all gun violence in town, but hopefully this would cut down on it dramatically.  Or if the number of armed refugees coming into the area is extremely high, establish a "coat-check" system where any refugees coming in town would check their guns and take a claim ticket.  They can retrieve their guns either when they leave town or have been established as trustworthy; any who don't comply don't get into town.  Once they get into town and get shelter, those in the community who are knowledgeable about agriculture and outdoor survival can post flyers or teach techniques for sanitation for primitive living, how to grow their own food, identify edible plants and mushrooms, and basic fishing & hunting techniques.  Try to make arrangements between the hardware/garden store owner (and owners of any arable land) and any refugees here to stay that they can use available tools and land in return for a share of the future harvest.  Make it painfully clear that 1) help from the government is not likely to come as they likely have their own problems, 2) the food/water they're getting is only temporary and that if they expect feed themselves next year they better get working now, and 3) everyone who is able is expected to aid in the defense of the community.  Many refugees will probably perish anyway, but at least this gives some a chance for survival.  The difficulty with this option is it requires a person or group of people with strong leadership skills and very strong logistics and organizational skills.... I hope one or more of you folks out there fits the bill (no pressure, right? ) 

2) We have an excess supply of food/water but far too many refugees for supplies to last through the winter

Probably the most likely scenario, and not a lot of options.  Post signs and assign armed folks near the edge of the town, and make it clear there is not enough food to take in refugees and post maps of other locations where there might be assistance available.  Depending on how much excess food is available and If it's feasible, set up a few food and water stations where refugees can pick up a small sack of food and containers to replenish their water supplies before they continue on.  To avoid fraud everyone picking up a bag gets painted on the hand (using paint that doesn't come off easily), and make it clear anyone seen taking someone else's bag will be shot on sight.  If there's been some success in getting some vehicles running again (and IMO that's a reasonable assumption) and if we've received word over the radio of aid centers in the region (less likely but possible), fix up and make available to the refugees some of the school and town buses, with some tow trailers if possible, so they can ride to the aid centers.  Receving further gas supplies is not likely to happen for a long time so having less vehicles available in town won't be much of an issue, and each vehicle can be given enough gas to make it to the prospective aid center.  Some of these actions require giving away precious resources to people who have no guarantee of survival, but that extra food is likely to taste pretty bitter if one finds out afterwards it would have saved the life of a family who only needed to make it an extra few dozen miles or few days further to find rescue.

3) No excess supply of food/water or large-scale cooperation is impossible within the town (too much disorder or rioting for example)

Given the situation as described by Jeff, this is unfortunately likely.  Without large-scale cooperation it becomes impossible to secure the town, so our small community must establish a smaller zone or zones within town and attempt to secure those.  Same as #2, no one enters the area and maintain an armed presence to discourage entry and keep people moving past.  Or if the group of refugees is way too large (or your community way too small) for this to work, the best option is to either hole up as inconspicuously as possible, or bug out if you have the means and a place to go.  If this is a situation where there is a little extra food/water available but disorder prevents large-scale actions as described above, find a secretive way to take in a certain number without the larger group of refugees knowing (you might get a riot otherwise).  Or if that's not feasible set up an out-of-the-way distribution station away from the zones and near a relatively clean freshwater source, and as before post up a map of possible places further along that may have aid available.  I doubt there's much else that can be done.

- Nickbert

In most recent economic collapses such as Rhodesia and Argentina.  People actually flee from the country to the cities for safety.  Just ask the 4000 dead Rhodesian ranchers how well they fared with their guns and trained, well armed security forces.  Well I guess you can't because they are dead.

Problem with living in the country is the police can't protect you, but they will come arrest you for shooting a hobo who was stealing some tomatoes.  Our most likely crisis scenario will be one in which electricity and goods will be available, but most will be unable to afford them -- not a EMP type event.  Come on people.  This is an economics website.  We are facing economic disaster -- not WW3.

BTW I'll take out the axe head and wash out the wound for a couple chickens and a tank of gas.

Really now, Its gonna be the "Waltons", or "Mad Max", My vote is for a short mad max scenario

and then on to the waltons.

robie
(gotta love john boy)

Speaking of economic collapse,  Farmers trying to cover our butts from all directions as possible .    I asked our banker how worried he was for the  farmers . He said most learned not to go into debt from the eighties.  If they have debt it is with a big bank some where or they are divided in half from divorce.

.  Well in those days  many of the farmers went to work as engineers on the railroad so they would have  health insurance , be more diversified  with 70k income,  and take any loss or part of the expense  off the income tax .  Wives and  children  are hired as business expense.  Yes they take a good amount out  of the RR check for retirement fund ,which ,as some has pointed out here,  may never be seen .  Not a one I have talked to even considered buying gold.    We will see  what is considered at the coffee shop  when the snow flies .  For now they are still waiting in line to dump grain at the coop.

  Opinions on talking to them about why buying gold is a good thing.   In simple terms please . As you know we are laid back God  respecting people . They are not going to listen to anyone talking down to them.