Anonymous Trading of Coins Ends in 2012

I'm surprised they are waiting till 2012. I think this shows that they are planning ahead if they need to confiscate the gold at some point in the future.

Thanks, Machinehead! My initial reaction is WTF is this doing in the health care bill? Now as it settles I'm thinking about what else is lurking inside this bill and whether TPTB will ultimately have the resources to enforce them. No doubt more will come to me as I'm cleaning the guns...

It clearly says "No person..." so if one is operating as a corporation we can assume the letter of the law allows some lattitude here?There must be a reason for such a glaring oversight.

I assume this is the "Goldman clause" which will allow them to continue to assist entities like Greece, the NY state pension,  Illinois, etc., in structuring their transactions in a way to allow them to evade their actual reporting requirements.

Am I misreading or is this just an amendment meant to limit the citizenry from owning actual wealth without the .gov knowing where it is and in what quantities?

To me, this looks like the Depression is not going well, and the FR is playing the strategic long game. Isolate owners of tangible hard currency, and make good and sure that the population doesn't increase without several things:
1. A written paper trail that;
1a. Identifies the owner, and;
1b. Tells you where they live

2. Places inconvienience on owning PM's so that more people are not tempted to diversify as the dollar continues to tailspin towards mother earth at neck-breaking speeds

3. Make the transaction of Gold seem even more "fringe" by forcing heaps of paperwork in the path of anyone who wants to protect their actual wealth.

4. Create yet another taxible intervention into the private lives of decent folks.

Shades of FDR. http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

Cheers?
Aaron

What is really pathetic is the 535 Bozos in the Kongress most of whom do not even read the bills they are voting on much less comprehend the implications of the possible side effects. They just vote the way the leadershit tells them.

Ken

Dang!

I don't get it, where's the Goldman loophole? 

Oh wait, I think I see it...."person" does not include the government itself, so the various penalties, requirements and restrictions only apply to everybody else.

If I could ever only pass one law it would be that the government has to live by the same rules that it passes.  With an amendment stapled on that inescapably directs that when hostile activities are commenced against any nation that the very first people to get sent over to the front lines are the 18-39 year old children, and/or grandchildren as appropriate, of the lawmakers.

Somehow I can imagine that the debates would be more well attended than the shams I saw in 2002 where lonely congresspeople urging restraint were speaking to virtually abandoned chambers.

Just a thought.

--------------------------------------

Excellent research Crash_Watcher.   Thank you.

Good article Travlin, thanks for posting it.  Along a similar vein, I believe that State budget deficit problems will finally result in the passage of legislation to institute a sale tax on all inter-state internet transactions (I fact, I'm surprised that this wasn't also part of the Health Care Bill-hey, maybe its hidden in there somewhere!!!):

Delahunt, a Massachusetts Democrat, introduced a bill on Thursday that would rewrite the ground rules for Internet and mail order sales by eliminating the option for many Americans to shop over the Internet without paying state sales taxes.

At the moment, Americans who shop over the Internet from out-of-state vendors usually aren't required to pay sales taxes. Californians buying books from Amazon.com or cameras from Manhattan's B&H Photo, for example, won't be required to cough up the sales taxes that they would if shopping at a local mall.

This is hardly a new debate: pro-tax officials and state governments have been pressing Congress to require taxes to be collected for a decade or so. They argue that reduced sales tax revenue threatens budgets for schools and police, and say that, as a matter of fairness, online retailers should be forced to collect the same taxes that brick-and-mortar retailers do.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20009603-38.html 

I have no idea how we will comply with this. I have 5 employees and only gross about 500 a year, but with margins getting increasingly tight. I will lose everything if this business fails.

I am sure the Fed can print enough money to pay out some more unemployment bennies right? From Obama's stash?

If I am legislated into failure, I will return to my previous life as a soldier. Just more in keeping with the guys who crossed the Potomac.

The article says calendar year.

Starting in 2012, that changes. All business payments or purchases that exceed $600 in a calendar year will need to be accompanied by a 1099 filing. That means obtaining the taxpayer ID number of the individual or corporation you're making the payment to -- even if it's a giant retailer like Staples or Best Buy -- at the time of the transaction, or else facing IRS penalties.

I'm unclear though on who sends the 1099.  This article seems to say that a business that pays over $600 in a calendar year to one company or person  must file a 1099.  Machinehead's original posts was referring to casual coin sellers falling into this situation.  I'm not sure it means that a merchant must report sales of $600.

Does anyone know how this would really work so you can keep us from going off an a tangent?

From just a cursory read, I'm getting the impression that this would mean all businesses would need to track total annual sales to individuals and report all activity exceeding $600.00 annually.

Yes, I think that is correct.  This article gives some more insight:

Normally, you would tally up receipts for your payments to your vendors and include them in the relevant sections of your tax return as business expenses. Now, with these changes, you will have to issue a 1099 to each vendor, whether individual or corporation, from whom you purchased over $600 of goods or services during the fiscal year and send a copy of that 1099 to the IRS. This is in addition to the 1099s you had to issue previously.

You’ll also be receiving a 1099 from each business to which you sold over $600 of goods or services.

Each new 1099 will need to be reported on your tax return at the end of the year.

http://djmarcuslaw.com/health-care-bill-and-your-small-business/

Um, technically it's already passed as part of the health care bill, it just has yet to go into effect.  It could end up being nixed (either that portion of the bill or the entire health care bill itself) but at least for the moment it's on track.  Creepy and sad.

If it does continue as planned, yeah you're right you can expect a whole mess of people and businesses to be confused, angry, or just simply ignore it.  Then either the whole reporting scheme will collapse into an epic failure, or just maybe after several years consumers, business, and the IRS eventually adjust to or tune the new system.  It may seem inconceivable now that the latter could come to pass, but I'm not about to place any bets AGAINST collective stupidity and/or apathy....

- Nick

There appears to be two different opinions about how this will apply:

1) applies only to business to business/vendor transactions and/or

2) applies to both business to business and business to customer

The original article applied to the coin bullion industry implies that the coin/bullion dealer would be required to report all sales to individuals totally $600 or more a year.

That suggests (if the law is being correctly interpreted and applied) that all business would have to report all transactions with all customers (regardless of industry).  That is draconian. 

I'm not suggesting that that is even correct.

If it's only option 1, then it should not affect precious metal, gun, or any other purchase made by individuals.

I'm just seeking clarification.

It may be fun to speculate, but I'd really like to know if there is anyone here in the CM community with the expertise to provide some insight and get to the bottom of this.