Taking prepping too far

You are really getting worked up over some "spilled milk".  The reality is we don't know how long it will take before collapse happens... or how bad it will be when it comes.  I prefer to have a whole lot of food in storage as a precaution.. and the answer is to shift your storage emphasis to very long shelf-life items.  If you are just shopping at the grocery or warehouse store, then buy things like Goya canned beans (present stock dated with 2017 expiration... will keep longer at basement temps) canned Tuna (present stock dated with 2016 expiration), etc.  For me, I buy mostly freeze dried now... in #10 cans... 25 year shelf life.  It's expensive.. but you buy it once and you are done;

http://beprepared.com/

If you think total collapse is some kind of far out tail risk event.. then you have not been studying enough.  Take it from Hugo Salinas Price.. who could just sit back and enjoy his $$ Billions.. but instead feels the need to warn you and me of what is to come... and explain in a very clear concise way how we got here;  

http://www.plata.com.mx/mplata/articulos/articlesFilt.asp?fiidarticulo=194

Fiat money has destroyed humanity’s normal way of life; a way of life in which men and women could find their places and were thankful to have them. That old way of life is gone; the old attitudes toward life and work have been erased.

This is destruction many times worse than the worst destruction of any war. That is where we are today. This is what fiat money has brought to the world. Fiat money is the child of the arrogance of human intellect, which has sought to invalidate the laws of human nature which have regarded the precious metals as money for thousands of years, and sought to substitute an intellectual construct for the real thing. Now we are going to pay for that arrogance.

What now? Nobody knows. Unquestionably, we are headed straight into fearful problems never seen before. At least, owning physical gold and silver may be help some of us survive.

Hi nedeyne,

I would hate to see you give up on prepping on account of a few bags of spoiled food. (And did it occur to you that the bugs or their eggs might have already been present when you bought the stuff?!? It does happen, so it may not have been your own storage) (especailly if it is from China...)

How many people, when trying something new, nail it the first time? Very few, and that includes some of the most brilliant people to ever grace our planet. I am sure the Wright brothers had more than a few crashes and disheartening moments before finally taking off, so to speak. Where would the world be if all of those marvelous inventors, artists, builders etc gave up at the first sign of defeat?

I bought a food dehydrator this past summer and have made my fair share of mistakes that caused me to discard food I had lovingly grown in my garden. Does that mean I should give up or send it back for a refund? I've had a few loaves of bread fail on me as I work on the finer aspects of that craft. Do I give up and go back to buying expensive store bought bread? I think not. I keep at it, because I believe in what I am doing. There is a learning curve in all aspects of prepping, and a healthy dose of patience is necessary to figure things out on an as you go basis. We do not learn from success, we learn from failing.

Your post seems to say that you do not really believe in this ideology, at least not with conviction. Because of this you are rationalizing your decision to give up by telling yourself the odds of something bad happening are slim anyway, so why bother?

Your choices are yours of course. I personally will stick to the "better a year early than a day too late" philosophy. I am confident that in a true crisis I will be a heck of a lot better off than most, and not only will I be happy to to eat a loaf of bread made from buggy flour, I may very well be thankful for the extra protein it contains. When hungry enough, you would be surprised at what all of a sudden becomes palatable to otherwise discriminating tastes.

When I read your post, I was thinking along the same lines as Rwrek.  There are a lot of ways to store food, some better than others.  I don't expect to pick up an entire new set of skills over night.  I started with a medium size back yard garden three years ago.  I've learned a lot.  The next step is to expand the garden and start storing the excess seasonal produce instead of giving it all away.  For veggies, I'm dehydrating and shrink wrapping (5-10 year shelf life).  I can also use food stored like this for back country trips.

My wifes forms of resistance are effort and cost.  She doesn't want to prepare in any fashion that requires more effort or cost.  Can't be done.  That's part of what peak energy is all about.  Without cheap energy we will have to expend more effort to feed ourselves.  It's that simple.

I hear you regarding folks that rely on the government for support.  It is a matter of pride for me that I don't and have never once taken handouts in any form.  My plan going forward will not include expecting the government to feed me, nor do I expect the government will be able to continue to support half the population of the US indefinitely.

The clearest example of idiotic thinking that I see regularly are bumper stickers refering to "free" health care.  They actually use the word free.  Who on this site thinks that "free" health care exists, or free government food for that matter?

The Wright Brothers were both scientists and businessmen.  If you haven't, you should read "Wind and Sand."

They picked Kill Devil Hills so that their crashes would be in sand.  They also made the commitment to fly very low until their skill level made higher flights safe.  They did not want to die in a crash before they could accomplish their goal.

Failures were anticipated and built into their plan.

I admire them.

Hi again nedyne,

Good comment back, and most certainly I would not want to try to change your mind. You are correct about the perspective part, particularly as it applies to balance e.g. not becoming obsessed. That goes for anything in life really. More is not always better.

The thing I like about this site and the people who frequent here is that the focus is not about doom and gloom, but rather how we can help ourselves to prosper as things inevitably change. Mind you that is a subjective thing - what is prosperous to some might not be to others. I don't know about a big apocalyptic collapse, but I do buy into the idea that our standard of living will erode quite a bit more in the coming years. That is both quantifiable, and believable.

One of the bonuses I personally have found is that the resilient/self-sufficient style of living will help me to better plan my retirement - I don't envision life being a whole lot different than it is now, and therefore it is easier to forecast my potential expenses. I feel good with the realization that I don't have to save a gazillion dollars to have a nice life.

Cheers, and stay optimistic! That is a great trait to have!

Jan

I have taken the approach of reorienting my life in a way that I can do constructive and positive things that make sense for the long term survival of the species and healing the planet that also give a deeper meaning to my daily activities. These are things that make sense whether a collapse is coming or not. That gets you out of the trap of preparing for something that we can not as of yet conceive of, and wasting a lot of time and energy in an activity that this self and fear centric.

To quote EE Cummings “tomorrow is our permanent address”. My goal is to live as if the collapse has already happened, which I see as a natures way of correcting our errant ways. That lets me stay positive without ignoring our current predicament. Rather than preparing for the transition, I'm trying to live in the future now.

Learning as we go is just part of the process, as with anything.

I have also learned some costly lessons re stocking my freezer too much, beyond the rate at which we use things.  When I discovered I had meat in there that was 12 months old, I realized I had to adjust how much I stocked to more accurately reflect the rate at which we use things (I had purchased the freezer a couple of years ago, and stocked it right up).  It burns my $%^@, but I now understand that you need to have a "rotating freezer" much as you have a rotating pantry, and to limit what you save to what you realiztically expect to use.  Better to get into the swing of things now.

As my mom used to always say "live and learn"!

Educating myself on collapse for two plus years now has brought up all types of emotions. My own process has been to go through all of those emotions and feel them - anger, fear, sadness and all the rest of the normal reactions one has to such an enormous calamity. Underlying them all is a feeling of helplessness which, for many of us, is quite uncomfortable. I wanted to do something! So my response is to sporadically focus on personal preparedness (including financial) as a way of dealing with that. It gives me something I can do that is immediate and practical for myself and those closest to me. Being proactive, given the information/evidence we have at present, seems sensible. Yes, mistakes are made but one learns. Better to learn now than regret later! I am no where as prepared as some but more prepared than those who are oblivious. Sometimes I wonder if it makes any sense to prepare when I can't know just what will happen - good or bad. But I do it because it makes me feel better. And going through all of those emotions, while painful, helps prepare me emotionally. I wonder what will happen for those who are unaware as collapse becomes increasingly impossible to ignore/deny any longer. I'm grateful for the time I've had to adjust somewhat.

A friend said to me recently, "don't worry so much" after I sent him an article on climate change. Actually, I no longer "worry" because I've given up any hope of personally changing anything in the larger scheme of things. I accept that I have no control over anything but my own situation and choices. So I agree that worrying doesn't change anything and is upsetting. Thankfully, I've come to see that worrying isn't the only reaction I can have. Instead, I choose to be aware. I am consciously aware of, and a witness to, what I see, hear, experience and read. I find I can't "unknow" what I know, but I can stop worrying about it since it has no affect anyway! Do I occasionally find myself slipping back into worry - sure, but I try to bring myself back to just "being with" whatever is happening.

Spiritual preparedness for me also takes the form of prayer and meditation. It looks more and more like we may be facing, not only the end of industrial cilvilization, but the potential extinction of our own species along with all life on earth. How does one deal with that? How does one deal with the extinction of 200 species a day right now? I'm learning to let go and turn inward more. Perhaps this is more natural given my age than for someone just starting out in life.

Nedyne, this is my perspective and experience which I offer to you as just that. As others here have said, we make different choices based on our unique situations. All the best to you as you walk your path through these challenging times.

trying to change his mind.  We've all seen this type as we've gone through the process/enlightenment.  "It can't happen" or "Everything's fine as I can handle anything" or etc, etc, etc....  Really, how many people have most of us tried to get to see reality, that they need to prepare for what's coming, and they do little to nothing because of the Normalcy Bias?  

Maybe this guy will wake up, but most likely not.  At least not until he can't get out of the house to get those funds that he's relying on, due to tons of possible situations, and is down to his last can of peaches.

Sorry if this is harsh, but reading his posts screams of denial, and at this point in my preps, people in denial are a virus.

"Don't worry about trying to change my view."  Forgive me if I have misinterpreted, but this sounds an awful lot like "I am immune to logical argument."  Not a good place to be.

Sounds like you shored up your finances, that is awesome, congratulations.  Many people get stuck right there, can't make it happen.

However, your optimism could easily become denial, especially when it comes to the comments about not worrying about food, you can leave anytime you want.  Look at the historical evidence, this is rarely true.  This isn't the world's first rodeo, there are plenty of countries whose woes you can read about, and exactly how their citizens were effected.

Leaving a country that is in upheaval is frequently close to impossible, governments frequently lock down their borders financially and physically.  Now, if you really have a LOT of something valuable, you can get out of just about anything, for a price, but that's not most of us.

I don't want anybody to be stripped of their optimism, but let's be realistic.  The easiest way to stay realistic is to ask yourself, "has this every happened before?  If so, where and how did people deal with it?"

If your opinions do not jive with historical fact, you might want to re-think them.

Osb presents no logical arguments to explain how the current system will be sustained, other than the backward-looking, "it hasn't happened yet" argument.  This site, and many others, are full of cogent discussion of the myriad reasons why a crash is coming.  If your argument is that we are going to muddle through this somehow.. I would sure like to hear your speculation as to how that is going to work. 

The Fed will be buying 90% of the new US Gov't debt flow next year (see source below)... we are now at a point where essentially all new deficit spending is being monetized.. all markets are captured, and there is no effective rule of law if you are part of the monetary status quo.   

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-03/treasury-scarcity-to-grow-as-fed-buys-90-of-new-bonds.html 

Here is how the Mexican Billionaire Hugo Salinas Price describes what is to come;

Fiat money has destroyed humanity’s normal way of life; a way of life in which men and women could find their places and were thankful to have them. That old way of life is gone; the old attitudes toward life and work have been erased.

This is destruction many times worse than the worst destruction of any war. That is where we are today. This is what fiat money has brought to the world. Fiat money is the child of the arrogance of human intellect, which has sought to invalidate the laws of human nature which have regarded the precious metals as money for thousands of years, and sought to substitute an intellectual construct for the real thing. Now we are going to pay for that arrogance.

What now? Nobody knows. Unquestionably, we are headed straight into fearful problems never seen before. At least, owning physical gold and silver may be help some of us survive.

source: http://www.plata.com.mx/mplata/articulos/articlesFilt.asp?fiidarticulo=194

Sucked into a fantasy?  There is plenty of fantasy out there... Chemtrails for instance... but the pathway toward some form of monetary collapse is entirely, rationally, mathematically demonstrable.   

to say you were a fool to think to store food is being really hard on yourself... You are not a fool, and in fact if you think you'll always be able to find food, then that is foolish.  There are people who are hungry right now in New York due to Sandy. Is your fridge totally empty? I assume not. Are people fools for keeping food in their homes? Prepping just means keeping more than what most people are keeping currently. Up until recently, people kept months of food in their homes. Also, if your food was stored in a sealed containerr then the bugs probably came with them. We eat bugs routinely [just google that]. And remember people starving & dehydrated after Katrina? I wouldn't call it unlikely to have trouble accessing food. I just lived through a blackout, empty shelves, people loosing homes, etc. To give up because a food storage project went bad is silly - chek out The Survival Podcast. jack Spirko's philosophy is to not assume the worst. It is to hope for the best, prepare for the worst- but be prpared in a way that you benefit even if nothing goes wrong. His food storage methods saves you money- You are eating food you purchased at lower prices, and you are not storing food to only be eaten in a disaster. good luck

I think that when you took the effort to store a bit of food you were on the right track.  Losing food to any situation is frustrating.  When I began learning to store foods many, many years ago it wasn't because I expected a collapse or emergency.  It was just something I found fascinating and could do with my great grandmother and grandmother (my mother was never interested).  Also, later, I found myself a single mother with a minimum income struggling to get through school, yada yada yada. One thing I discovered.  Pantry stocked, kids eat and any income paid for gas to get me through another school/work day.

The move to store food was the right move.  Honestly no one would expect, in this world today, that someone will realize the next step is how to make sure the food was there for a long time.  Why would we when we can run to the grocery store anytime and the food is always fresh and wholesome?  We can just buy it.  

Obviously, food is a perishable item.  Dry goods (beans, wheat, spices, flour) are packaged with bug eggs in it, there is no method of packing today that is free of them.  In order to be "pest free" it would have to be sterilized to the point of no nutritional value.  Improper storage, meaning storage that is optimum for the pests, was the failure here...  not the intent to store the food.  The next step was the most important.  Research on the web will inform anyone how to buy dry goods at the grocery store, on sale, and keep it safe for anywhere from 2 to 30 years.

Planning for financial upheaval is good thing.  Having savings is a good thing as long as the plan doesn't involve selling a house no one can buy, a hundred dollar bill will buy tomorrow what it buys today, my property taxes don't run me broke because of property tax inflation imposed by local governments.  That my debts are settled (which I don't have..debt).

I for one don't feel stress and worry over preparing for something that may lead to a hardship.  The more I can set aside, grow, create, save leads me to greater optimism about my family's future.  The more I learn about bread baking, cheesemaking, soda making, brewing, dehydrating, canning, curing meats, cooking with dry goods the more secure I become.  Even after 30 years of preserving food, I learn something new every day.

It's perspective. If a person sets out to prepare for "doomsday" with a feeling of doom, then of course defeatism will guide their emotions.

Maybe all those summers, as a young girl, spending time with women who lived through the Great Depression made me less fearful.  Whatever the reason, I'm grateful to those wonderful women who have departed this world, leaving me with priceless knowledge.

If a person looks at the world around them and thinks there is a problem, takes steps to mitigate the problem in their own life, then defeatism shouldn't play into their thinking.

The intent to leave the country is an interesting one.  In Iraq, during the war, soldiers heard from locals they felt better under Saddam than the upheaval they were experiencing.  Better the devil and rules you knew than the day to day uncertainty of the war.  

Having traveled the world, I can only hope that a person would have already set up the passports/visas/residency requirements needed.  Because if there is an economic emergency, countries are not going to willingly allow more mouths to feed across their borders.  A person would have to hope, when the time comes, airports are functional and other countries are allowing people pre-prepared to leave in.  Because people cannot just hop on a boat or plane, land in a country, and be welcomed in.  At that point the term for the person's status is refugee.  A camp is the most likely outcome.

In a world of instant gratification it would seem logical, just up and leave.  But, history tells us that even if allowed to leave it would be without money (it will not be allowed out of the country) and no way to get home if the situation is worse elsewhere, highly likely if the US economy fails.  If the US fails it has worldwide implications.

I'm not dismissing a leaving the country plan.  I mean no offense when I suggest having a pre-planned way to move to another country.  Because, like buying food to store, researching the next step for preserving it was essential.  Exit plans require that next step of research.

That the pathway to a worldwide economic calamity is not apparent to you does not make it not so.  This is simple math... all major Western style debt ridden economies are on the same path.  You make no valid argument that I can see in favor of continuing stability in the face of the current realities;

*  Diminishing real resources

*  Unsustainable debts

*  Attempts everywhere to maintain the unsustainable status quo via money printing

I have posted elsewhere a recent presentation by Kyle Bass where he lays out the math regarding Japan, which will probabaly be the first nation to fall to economic catastrophe.  I will make the math very simple for you in relative terms we all can understand:  They have a yearly income of $100,000 (their tax revenues) and a credit card balance of roughly $2.5 million.  The reason they are not already bust is that their credit card interest rate is near zero... and even then, the yearly bill, for interest service alone, is $25K, or one quarter of their entire income.  If their interest rates creep up, they are dead.  Their new leader, Abe, wants to create inflation...which means that their interest rates will creep up.  This cannot and will not end well. 

I have explained in very detailed terms how the world is interconnected, and how if Japan breaks, the entire world economy will break as well.  You act like you are someone who has broken the bonds of a cult and are now proclaiming that the rest of us are cultists. I am not in a cult.  I am a realist and an engineer that looks at data and draws conclusions. Your backward looking justification for passivity in the face of this data is a danger to those who may be just waking up, hence my strong rebuff.