Thanks for creating the thread Joe!  I was wondering how Feinstein was going to define a firearm in her bill.

I have already shared my opinion with my representatives in State and Federal levels.  I find it simply unacceptable that my father and my uncles would be made victims of this legislation.  I do not own a glock, but I sure know of a bunch of LEO, First Responders, and Veterans to name a few who do.  There is such a large body of firearms that are out there that meet this definition  They are all owned by law abiding citizens.  Suddenly, these firearms used for sport (out on the range only), competition, hunting, or self-defense are illegal! Right...  That won't influence my vote at all.  

I watched VP Joe Biden's fireside chat.  Very cordial I may add.  However his response on a self-defense weapon of choice is that we should rely on shotguns.  If I am inside my residence a shotgun is an excellent self defense weapon.  Unfortunately, if we are in a serious state of affairs for whatever reason, self defense begins outside of the residence.  That is where a semi-automatic firearm, such as an AR-15/Mforgery/AK variants are preferred. 

I know of some women who prefer a 10/22 long rifle semi-automatic rifle for sport shooting and self-defense using the very  popular 25-round magazines.  It is just fun to shoot, yet according to Feinstein that rifle in some configurations is banned.  Again, simply unacceptable.

I prefer having a choice for self-defense.  Flexibility is key.

In any case, I have shared my opinion with my reps.  I recommend that we all let our representatives know how we feel.  Democracy is a team sport that requires our participation to work.

Let your reps know early and often how you feel and why.

Does anybody know what the status of rifles such as Henry, Marlin or Winchester lever actions would be under this proposed Bill? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XKAaO26FAvA

Alex Jones, and several other news outlets, reveal that software to print (from a home computer work station) high capacity AR15 magazines is now available.  This may take the "gun control debate" to another level and relieve the severe shortages currently being seen in gun stores.

Here is the Summary of the Assault Weapons Ban 2013.  I could not download the Bill's entire text; just the summary.

Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 Summary

Mass shootings in Newtown, Aurora, and Tucson have demonstrated all too clearly the need to regulate military-style assault weapons and high capacity ammunition magazines. These weapons allow a gunman to fire a large number of rounds quickly and without having to reload.

What the bill does:

The legislation bans the sale, transfer, manufacturing and importation of:

• All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel.

• All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

• All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

• All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine; forward grip; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; or shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

• All ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips, and drums) capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

• 157 specifically-named firearms (listed at the end of this page).

The legislation excludes the following weapons from the bill:

• Any weapon that is lawfully possessed at the date of the bill’s enactment;

• Any firearm manually operated by a bolt, pump, lever or slide action;

• Assault weapons used by military, law enforcement, and retired law enforcement; and

• Antique weapons.

The legislation protects hunting and sporting firearms:

• The bill excludes 2,258 legitimate hunting and sporting rifles and shotguns by specific make and model.

The legislation strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and state bans by:

• Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test.

  • The bill also makes the ban harder to evade by eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test.

• Banning dangerous aftermarket modifications and workarounds.

  • Bump or slide fire stocks, which are modified stocks that enable semi-automatic weapons to fire at rates similar to fully automatic machine guns.

  • So-called “bullet buttons” that allow the rapid replacement of ammunition magazines, frequently used as a workaround to prohibitions on detachable magazines.

  • Thumbhole stocks, a type of stock that was created as a workaround to avoid prohibitions on pistol grips.

• Adding a ban on the importation of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines.

• Eliminating the 10-year sunset that allowed the original federal ban to expire.

The legislation addresses the millions of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines currently in existence by:

• Requiring a background check on all sales or transfers of a grandfathered assault weapon.

  • This background check can be run through the FBI or, if a state chooses, initiated with a state agency, as with the existing background check system.

• Prohibiting the sale or transfer of large-capacity ammunition feeding devices lawfully possessed on the date of enactment of the bill.

• Allowing states and localities to use federal Byrne JAG grant funds to conduct a voluntary buy-back program for grandfathered assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices.

• Imposing a safe storage requirement for grandfathered firearms, to keep them away from prohibited persons.

• Requiring that assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured after the date of the bill’s enactment be engraved with the serial number and date of manufacture of the weapon

Assault weapon bans have been proven to be effective

The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was effective at reducing crime and getting these military-style weapons off our streets. Since the ban expired, more than 350 people have been killed and more than 450 injured by these weapons.

• A Justice Department study of the assault weapons ban found that it was responsible for a 6.7% decrease in total gun murders, holding all other factors equal.

  • Source: Jeffrey A. Roth & Christopher S. Koper, “Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994,” (March 1997).

• The same study also found that “Assault weapons are disproportionately involved in murders with multiple victims, multiple wounds per victim, and police officers as victims.”

• The use of assault weapons in crime declined by more than two-thirds by about nine years after 1994 Assault Weapons Ban took effect.

  • Source: Christopher S. Koper, “An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003” (June 2004), University of Pennsylvania, Report to the National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice.

• The percentage of firearms seized by police in Virginia that had high-capacity magazines dropped significantly during the ban. That figure has doubled since the ban expired.

  • Source: David S. Fallis and James V. Grimaldi, “In Virginia, high-yield clip seizures rise,” Washington Post, at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012204046.html

• When Maryland imposed a more stringent ban on assault pistols and high-capacity magazines in 1994, it led to a 55% drop in assault pistols recovered by the Baltimore Police Department.

  • Source: Douglas S. Weil & Rebecca C. Knox, Letter to the Editor, The Maryland Ban on the Sale of Assault Pistols and High-Capacity Magazines: Estimating the Impact in Baltimore, 87 Am. J. of Public Health 2, Feb. 1997.

• 37% of police departments reported seeing a noticeable increase in criminals’ use of assault weapons since the 1994 federal ban expired.

  • Source: Police Executive Research Forum, Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground by Focusing on the Local Impact (May 2010).  

List of firearms prohibited by name

Rifles: All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS; All AR types, including the following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT–9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub–2000, SU–16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR–48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M–14/20CF; All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1–C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.

Pistols: All AK–47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK–47 pistol, HCR AK–47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK–47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol; All AR–15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR–15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR–15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP–9 and MP–45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol; The following MAC types: MAC–10, MAC–11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre; All Thompson types, including the following: Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.

Shotguns: Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following:IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

Belt-fed semiautomatic firearms: All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.

Rgds,

GM_Man

"A Justice Department study of the assault weapons ban found that it was responsible for a 6.7% decrease in total gun murders, holding all other factors equal.

• Source: Jeffrey A. Roth & Christopher S. Koper, “Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994,” (March 1997).

Really? This report was CONCLUDED in 1997 - the ban had only been in place for 3/10 years! That's an *odd* time to write a conclusive study. Besides, if my math is correct, the overall rate of 350 people murdered since the ban expired puts the rate of use at approximate 0.6%! 

Meaning that not ONE out of a hundred people who were killed, were killed with this kind of weapon. Interesting that this wasn't mentioned.

Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test.

• The bill also makes the ban harder to evade by eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test.

Easy to remove? Bayonet lugs would need to be ground off with a metal grinder!

When Maryland imposed a more stringent ban on assault pistols and high-capacity magazines in 1994, it led to a 55% drop in assault pistols recovered by the Baltimore Police Department.

• Source: Douglas S. Weil & Rebecca C. Knox, Letter to the Editor, The Maryland Ban on the Sale of Assault Pistols and High-Capacity Magazines: Estimating the Impact in Baltimore, 87 Am. J. of Public Health 2, Feb. 1997.

What exactly are assault pistols? This is just as subjective and legally ill-defined as the following, as any pistol that possessed a standard capacity magazine could be judged to be an "assault" pistol based on semantic trickery;

The percentage of firearms seized by police in Virginia that had high-capacity magazines dropped significantly during the ban. That figure has doubled since the ban expired.

• Source: David S. Fallis and James V. Grimaldi, “In Virginia, high-yield clip seizures rise,” Washington Post, at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012204046.html

Totally misleading... This could be from pistols, which represented a much larger overall percentage of firearms used in homocides. It also fails to mention anything apart from "siezed" magazines - which could mean recovered and taken into evidence. This would "omit" anything used legally in self defense.

Cheers,

Aaron

There is no doubt that the summary has very high goals and uses bogus statistics to justify the language.  

Feinstein is using lies, as many politicians do, to justify their legislation.  There are many bills proposed in Congress to restrict our rights to 'keep and bear arms.'

Congress is doing what it always does: address a problem, not with a solution, but with a bill that seeks to correct a problem with a bill that does not address the root cause.  If I just look at the location of all these violent crimes, I do not see many of them in rural America.  They are in urban and suburban areas!  They are located in areas where the population density is high.  Not in rural America!  

There is higher crime in the urban and suburban areas.  The strict gun control laws of these states, which include New York, California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, et al, are not working to stop crime.  So help me, somebody help me understand how they can expect me to swallow that their process of reducing crime with strong gun control legislation is going to help me in my lifestyle in rural America??

The politicians in these urban and suburban areas have tried to fix their issues that are tied to population density, mentally ill, hunger, homeless, unemployment, substance abuse (drug, alcohol, etc), gang-related violence, domestic violence, and other forms of violence by creating stronger gun laws.  The crazy thing is that they seem to have an awful lot of folks up in arms (pun intended) that a ban on all semi-automatic weapons will solve all these issues.   Einstein is attributed to having been the first to say, 'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.'

Congress does not wish to actually address the root cause of gun violence.  It just wants to be seen as doing something even when what it is doing won't solve anything.  Congress does not want to solve any root cause issues because that costs money that they do not have.  Where would those funds come from?  There is no money to address any of these issues, but by all that is holy, we will find money to restrict our firearm ownership and use, ensure registration, and allegedly to safe-guard our children in schools.

If you want to safe-guard children in schools you need to take a soft target such as school children in elementary schools and make them a hard target. Arm parents and teachers and train them in gun safety, gun marksmanship,and gun handling.  Train all teachers and administrators on what to do during a firearm incident at the school.  Train in an empty school with the first responders.  Be Prepared and Be Protected!

I am a strong believer that an armed parent/teacher will gladly sacrifice themselves and the perpetrator with such violent intent, because as a parent I would do so.  Israel has armed teachers and guards in all their schools and on all their school buses.  It works for them; it can work here.  Get it done and place a tick in the box.

Congress is repeating the same mistake over and over again.  Our leadership is taking the legislation mistakes  in the States with these large cities and trying to fit those same bills with the same language into rural America where it won't fit, won't solve anything, and isn't welcome. 

IMHO, of course. Cheers, GM_Man

Listen to the explanations for this.

Are you serious? Simulated gunfire? Training? That is nothing if not a show of force and intimidation. Making sure their gear is in check?

Notice who they are training with...the local police. This is almost beyond belief, even for me.

I know that they feel the same about us.  I got an earful from one of my sisters who was OTT about how assault weapons had to go, all of them! NOW!  So we went at it a bit.  I was basicly hit with all emotion and tried to respond with the stats as I know them.  I did like Newt G's approach this morning on TV.  I think it was Face the Nation after CBS Sunday Morning.  Sometimes it is just not possible to discuss common sense with anyone.  I read one article that compared gun control to the abortion issue, as both issues are polarizing.  I won't bother trying to convert my sister to recognize that gun owners are not evil.  We've been demonized by the media with a full set of horns, forked tail and red skin. 

A couple of observations from all the articles and coverage on the subject this past week:

1. From Joe Biden's lips, Gun Control is now Gun Safety.  We will all hear that twist this week from proponents of Feinstein's gun control bill.  It is harder to argue against a gun safety issue than gun control.
2. From Multiple Sources, It appears that every proponent is repeating a common mantra at the end of their time with their host or interviewer.  They finish with 'We are not taking their hunting rifles away from gun owners.  We are not seeking confiscation or We are not demanding registration.' Yet, there are over 20 active bills in Congress and some of them require some form of registration of owner and firearm to transfer or sell a firearm.  You can judge them by their actions, as their words are lies.
3. I noticed that Obama made a couple of statements this day (Sunday) regarding gun control.  The first was that the proponents of gun control need to listen a little bit better to gun owners.  I didn't notice that from Feinstein so I doubt that will moderate the vitrial that we are hearing.  The second was the acknowledgement that the requirements for urban cities varies from the country side.  No kidding!  

I hope that we've all reached out to our reps by now. Start tracking progress or the lack thereof on these dangerous bills.  Keep a close watch.  Obama has a very good organization in place in every state. That is his true strength.  Add to that the well funded gun control proponents that have sprung up since Sandy Hook and you realize how badly we are outnumbered.

Feinstein's bill is pure draconian and won't pass muster in the Supreme Court today. It makes you wonder if that the primary purpose of her Bill was to draw all the fire while the other, smaller bills eat away at our rights. I'll have a peek tomorrow as those bills.  The titles of those bills do not reflect their summary or their purpose.  Titles mean nothing.  The devil is in the details.

Cheers, GM_Man

Somewhat OT but...CNN had a story tonite that Obama's favorite hobby is skeet shooting at Camp David. Who knew? Maybe he won't ban that brand of shotgun, whatever it is.

Good afternoon All,

I was going to title this Einsteins View of Gun Control; that is "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

However, I found this excellent article on gun control and the State by David Mamet:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/01/28/gun-laws-and-the-fools-of-chelm-by-david-mamet.html

Have a read.  I suspect that David's primary point will be agreed to by all. "The individual is not only best qualified to provide his own personal defense, he is the only one qualified to do so. By David Mamet."

Enjoy!  GM_Man