Which topic(s) would you most like to see covered more on this site?

Adam Taggart
By Adam Taggart on Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 12:50pm

A wide range of topics are covered on Peak Prosperity. Are there particular ones you would like to see us focus on more? Or new ones you'd like us to start covering?

Let us know your thoughts in the Comments below. We're deliberately keeping this very open-ended, to allow the community here to highlight for us what it's most interested in.

cheers,
Adam

,

140 Comments

treebeard's picture
treebeard
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Posts: 348
Share personal details

For my own part, rehashing issues relative to the crash course are not of particular interest to me, peak oil, climate change, economic collapse (what ever that particular version of that you may believe).  There is so much work to be done to create a possitive response to the crisis in the offing, that discussing why the house is burning is not, in my mind, the most productive use of time.

There will be those who are new to these issues who land at this site and there are probably enough folks on the site who will be interested in engaging in a debate about the realities of these issues.  For my own mind the need to change transcends the three E's.  If we were not running out of oil and global warming did not exist, we would still need to change.  There is a crisis of spirit and the three E's are only a physical manifestation of that.

Getting caught up in the dark side of all this can be addictive.  There is an emotional attachment that can form around the intensity that it generates.  A blistering arguement about issues that threaten humanity, now that is engaging, talking about the best time to put compost around your tomatoes, ho hum!

How do we transcend the current self destructive system without allowing our morbib curiosity about it's collapse suck is down with it?  How can we get beyond our fears and issues surrounding self preservation which drive us inward and make us more self centered, more part of the old paradigm?  How do we reach beyond ourselves to create community?

I would love to hear about what others have for a possitive vision of the future after the SHTF?  What will you be doing on a daily basis, what will your community look like, how will you be making your living?  What will your friends and family be doing?  Where will your food come from, what will your house look like, what will your town, village, city look like?  What will the schools be like?

What creative things is everybody doing to bring this about?  Where are you in your journey, what are your challenges, interests?

My two cents

It's time leave the bar at the Titanic and the discussion 

park33's picture
park33
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Debate

gemel wrote:

One other thing that would be nice to see on the site is Chris engaging with people who are not on the same wave length as we are. I think challenging our assumptions about peak oil, gold, market crash are essential. In fact any study done by researchers is regularly ''bashed'' by other researchers. I know this is not easy for the brand. We should not always consume what we believe is true, challenging our assumptions will only help us mature and develop a broader view of the world


I too would like to see more robust debate. One-sided arguments do no encourage me to think for myself. Obviously there are powerful influences at work in our economies and fresh insights would be beneficial to me.

Jim H's picture
Jim H
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Posts: 1355
Deflation

Thanks for the kind words Robert (Essian).  We are brothers here.  I have utmost respect for CHS.. I only point out what I call his "blind spot" for deflation because he is different in his views of deflation than Mish... CHS is not a pro-Gold deflationist.. and in this sense I believe he provides dangerous advice.  That dangerous advice being that you will be safe in dollars.. in a relatively long term sense.   You will get the same message from Nicole Foss and Robert Prechter... and I sincerely believe that it will ruin you if you have savings that you hope to pass on to the next generation.  

I have said this before... your dollars are treated as total shit by the banks right now.  The "treatment" of your dollars is reflected as the interest rate.  Denninger.. another guy who is mute on Gold, if not downright anti-Gold, actually said this better than I can say it in a recent piece;   http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=209444

What's critical to small business is capital.  Financing is not capital -- it spends the same way (credit) but is the near-opposite of capital as capital is previously-earned economic surplus, while credit is tomorrow's expected economic surplus.

One comes from industry and hard work, the other from leverage.  One is a measure of success previously put forward and then risked in an effort to compound one's gains, the other is an attempt to skim off a piece of the action without putting up one's former success first.

My point is, banks can now create money in a frictionless world of high liquidity, where none of your hard earned capital is even needed anymore.  Why would anyone think that money is going to retain it's value when the banks are already telling you, in no uncertain terms, that they don't need your money?  Your money creates no yield.  Your money is shit.  Learn the lesson now, before it is too late.  This lesson is so simple that most people are missing it totally.. even though it's right there in front of your nose.  To me, the idea that dollars will ever INCREASE in their buying power is totally absurd.. but that is what CHS is selling in his deflation series.  Got Silver?    

robbie's picture
robbie
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Posts: 91
Allow members to use new OR classic CM site

I view this site on an iPad a majority of the time. Visually, the site is unparalleled. From a practical standpoint I share the same sentiment as many other members: it's a chore to quickly cycle through the frequent areas I visit compared to the old site. I therefore no longer spend my lunch break perusing comments because it takes too many taps.

Please consider allowing members to use a "classic" version of the site as many online brokerages do once they update their interface. Site traffic and time spent on site would likely increase significantly.

Thanks- Rob

joemanc's picture
joemanc
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Posts: 834
Differing Views

Darn if I can remember the economist's name, but a few months ago, Chris was interviewed by him. He doesn't believe in Peak Oil, even made a silver bet with Chris that the US would be producing more oil in 10 years, I believe, than we have ever produced, and while he brought up some very good points, I still disagree with him over his denial of Peak Oil.

I think if it's the right person, then sure, let's bring differing views and opinions in to the mix. We may even learn something from them.

RJE's picture
RJE
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Jim, with regards to cash as

Jim, with regards to cash as a hold, I do not want it frankly, not long term that's for sure, but...?. I mostly read Charles as saying the coming crisis and contraction is 'King Dollar rules', and short term I certainly agree with that.

However, what I glean from Charles and agree with as I process all information is that dollars still have a strong presence in my possession today because we will have events that give the dollar strength in purchasing power. The dollar goes up (safe haven), the market goes down, I use stashed cash for purchases of hard assets, mining and E&P after the dust settles from what could be a race to 666 again. Europe, Japan and China are today a dollar friendly crisis in the making are my thoughts. So Charles essays resonate with me in the short to medium term for sure. If Charles holds or slams Gold doesn't matter to me at all, and doesn't effect me in the least. However, he shows charts, and makes very intelligent observations that I can see and measure that I want as part of my overall research and due dills. 

It is the information I seek not so much the personal investment stratagies. I like Gold and look at its historical value. It has never gone to zero so I own it. Honestly, I don't even pay much attention to my Gold until I would need it. I basically let it gather dust and give no value to it at all, it is only an insurance policy. Like lending a brother money that I don't really care if I get back unless of course I need it (poor example?).

With Chris, I know he is right about printing, that Gold is a strong hold, I have also done quite a bit of research on Gold during Deflation and see no reason whatsoever to hedge with Gold during that cycle either but I am still wanting more Gold to add to what I have but only incrementally as I think I have enough, and TODAY it makes sense that I own the dollar. I look at 2008 as a model, and if I could duplicate what I made in 2008, I will have accumulated enough wealth that my portfolio would withstand any attack on its character. I want just one more 2008, and a bottom just like 2009 when the S&P hit 666. Give me that, and frankly I shut my lap top down and spend way more time golfing and enjoying my family. Then again I love this stuff and it would be hard to not work. I'll work and continue educating myself. Ilike it too much.

Well, this market is certainly rewarding and fulfilling from a learning sense. Chris speaks often of resiliency, and I can certainly relate 100% to what he says. Again, living hand to mouth with 15 individuals that was filled with a work ethic, can do, loving, and a together everyone achieves more (TEAM) attitude I am already prepared for what may or may not come as it relates to severity. Been there, done that. I just know we all can live tremendously happy lives with half of what we now think we must have. Guaranteed. 

Good Luck to All

Jim, I will call you friend, right along with Dog.

Go Tigers/Lions

Respectfully

BOB 

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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CM endorsements forum....buy this, not that - do this not that

Chris should specifically endorse preparations.  Water filtration system, solar for a few uses, weapon(s), food, food storage - and on and on.  There would be a good hundred or so prepping "must haves", many if not most would like to know what specific name or product should they consider.  It could be done in a matrix format based on where people live to accomodate necessary realities.  THEN, the gallery can duke it out and make their case for why this and not that.  Seriously, this is a forum most folks could benefit from - the new could quickly gain ground and the wise old owls could prattle on to their hearts delight.  When CM is convinced that a new recommendation is warranted the top recommendation could be updated/refreshed or such.  Sure be better than another article on peak oil.  If CM wants to grow and appeal to more than the current, limited preppers - gotta expand that audience.  That audience is not looking for long articles and deep thought.  Actionable lists, choices, recommendations, etc will be and is on their minds.   I mean the whole entire list, not just a product/action or four.  Enlist a few members to boil down what they've presented already....but it must be CM recommended. 

Oliveoilguy's picture
Oliveoilguy
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CM endorsements forum

Great idea. And if the endorsements have no conflict of interest they will be much more legitimate.

This would open up great discussion on a micro level.

Seeker45's picture
Seeker45
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strongly endorse bringing back classic view

As a subscriber of many years, I strongly endorse giving members the option of going to the classic view. I'll bet members would even be willing to help finance this tweak a little bit. The new site does not work for me. I'm reluctantly going to unsubscribe if changes aren't made to bring back the features of the old site. I would guess that other members might do the same.

msnrochny's picture
msnrochny
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Capability to Identify and Connect to Others in Local Community

If building Community is a fundamental part of preparation, Peak Prosperity could help the cause by providing a place to make connections with other Martenson followers in nearby towns or cities.  The ability to have coffee and talk with like-minded people who perhaps can be counted on over the next few years would be valuable.

msnrochny's picture
msnrochny
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Agree Site Format Is Not Yet Optimal

Agree the site is not as easy to use as it once was, and it has affected my enthusiasm for digging into the information here.  As good as Chris is with research, I assume the new format was focus grouped in some way, but to be frank (one man focus group here), I miss the old format, and I know that's not what Chris was going for. 

Also agree with another comment I saw,the new formatt is superior for iPad use, but working off my desktop is slow in that quick views of comments and site information were easy before with my PC, but difficult with my iPad.  Now, the opposite is the case (again, one man focus group).

I would applaud readers being given the option for the old format, or else a section on how to use the new format effectively, and why the developer(s) felt it is a step up over the old format.

Doug's picture
Doug
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groups

msnrochny wrote:

If building Community is a fundamental part of preparation, Peak Prosperity could help the cause by providing a place to make connections with other Martenson followers in nearby towns or cities.  The ability to have coffee and talk with like-minded people who perhaps can be counted on over the next few years would be valuable.

That feature exists in the groups area.  Click discuss, then click the groups button.  There may already be an existing group in your area, although I have to admit, the group for my area appears to be dead in the water after a brief flurry of interest.

Doug

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scotthaskett
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ronpoitras wrote: Many of us

ronpoitras wrote:

Many of us are holding 401K's and IRA's and need to know how best to manage these from a Peak Prosperity perspective. For example, what factors to consider before pulling funds out of so-called safe investments? Are there mutual funds or other investment vehicles that could be rolled into and that might be safer in the short term? How about a mutual fund that is truly vested in a positive future that we could support with our savings/investment dollars?

All in all though, you guys are doing a terrific job!

Thanks  Ron

I would agree with the above feedback.  I have a 401k that I cannot liqudate and it would be helpful to have ideas for people in this scenario, as quite frankly this is the only aspect of prepping that I'm struggling with.  I've already taken loans in order to "have available" some of the funds for prepping.  Though I've poured through the previous discussions, nothing stood out as a sound plan.  Any thoughts for these scenarios would be extremely useful.

Grover's picture
Grover
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Five bad things and some good

Chris, Adam,

I joined the site after seeing the quality work given free to the public and reading the comments from the subscribing members. I appreciate that Chris can take complicated problems, reduce them to the basics, provide thinking points, and develop actionable conclusions. It is an amazing skill that I admire deeply. Since I've joined, I've gotten to appreciate most of the posters on this site. In cases, they've diced Chris' work in ways I didn't expect. That causes me to think about the implications and ramifications.

I suppose that I'm saying that I'd like to see more of the basic attraction to this site. There are the negative and positive aspects. Over the years, I've developed a list of topics that I think are most worrisome to me. They are:

1) Peak oil. (Sorry treemagnet.) Nearly everything of any physical consequence has portable energy at its root. It is either made, transported, and/or powered by oil. All the modern conveniences need energy to function and petroleum is the most portable, energy dense, stable option available. Without oil to power our machines, modern society ceases to exist as we know it. As it is so important to our societal existence, shouldn't we concentrate on the point where we have to deal with less? I personally want to have as much information (regardless of how depressing the information is) as I can get as to the timing and immediate consequences of the shortages. Any information on this subject will be greatly appreciated (at least by me.)

2) All levels of debt. Our society has embarked on a debt binge since the Baby Boomers came of age. The debt permeates all levels of society from individual balance sheets to the federal government. We are so awash in debt that we are no longer viable lendable candidates - at least, those who are willing to take on more debt aren't good risks. At some point, this bubble will be acknowledged and the fiat game will be over. Why wouldn't a sane person want information that gives a timely "watch out" concerning the end game?

3) Aging demographics. The Baby Boomers are getting old. Like it or not, it will affect all aspects society. As people age, their priorities change from growth and accumulation to conservatism and minimalism. The Boomers are chastised for squandering their productive years on glitch and glam. As a result, 3 out of 4 are woefully unprepared for retirement and late life challenges. Those folks will have to work until they can't. What happens then? Who will care for these people? How will society's resources be reallocated as a result?

4) Government intervention. As an example, I have seen several posts in this thread concerning climate change. Fossil fuels are simply too energy rich and therefore economically attractive to leave in the ground. If we don't burn them, someone else will. What are we going to do about it? Should we use our government's power to keep the "undeserving" from consuming "our oil?" Government comes with bureaucracies and bureaucrats that expect lucrative salaries, substantial benefits, and generous retirement packages. (When was the last time you saw a government bureaucracy dismantle voluntarily???) The bottom line is that it is an expensive (and mostly ineffectual) waste of resources. I understand why Chris doesn't chime on the controversial topics, but I'd like to see viable options to stop the incessant government takeovers.

5) Religious zealotry. People will commit heinous crimes against other humans in the name of their god. It doesn't matter if the god is religious, secular, economic, racial, or whatnot. The leaders will disdain any who oppose them so that the fervent followers believe the "others" are subhuman. Once a follower is convinced that the opposition doesn't deserve human rights, it is easy to treat them worse than a dog. Our leaders are pointing out the differences that exist between a common American and a Muslim, Russian, Chinese, etc. This is one of the first steps to denigration. Where is it happening and how do we stop it?

There are many more things to worry about in our society. These are my big categories. I'd like to read more about these and other categories. As I said earlier, Chris' style leading to actionable items is priceless.

On the other hand, gloom and doom is quite depressing if it isn't balanced. Knowing that a positive alternative exists that is within our grasp ... plants the seed that will eventually become a carrot. I actually have hope that I'll be able to have a community with rich personal interactions when the current "debt slave race for more of everything" finally dies of exhaustion. I want to hear about different ways to grow a community, how to find suitable land, where the local government respects individual rights, what to avoid, which direction to strive, etc. What areas should we invest our time into? I'm picking up as many "do it yourself" books as I can. They are incredibly out of style and therefore dirt cheap. What other treasures should we focus our attention toward?

I'm not totally enamored with the new site, but with a little patience, I can figure out how to make it work for me. Please focus on the content and deliverables rather than the interface.

Thanks for caring enough to embark on your need to educate us,

Grover

Doug's picture
Doug
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Posts: 2715
Grover

Quote:

4) Government intervention. As an example, I have seen several posts in this thread concerning climate change. Fossil fuels are simply too energy rich and therefore economically attractive to leave in the ground. If we don't burn them, someone else will. What are we going to do about it? Should we use our government's power to keep the "undeserving" from consuming "our oil?" Government comes with bureaucracies and bureaucrats that expect lucrative salaries, substantial benefits, and generous retirement packages. (When was the last time you saw a government bureaucracy dismantle voluntarily???) The bottom line is that it is an expensive (and mostly ineffectual) waste of resources. I understand why Chris doesn't chime on the controversial topics, but I'd like to see viable options to stop the incessant government takeovers.

I'm a little confused by this paragraph.  As near as I can figure, your points are gov't intervention is bad, all retrievable fossil fuels will be burned and somehow you conflate those two points into something about climate change.

Seems to me we should start with data:  Climate change is happening and may well be worse than overly cautious scientists have been telling us.  That's pretty verifiable.  Gov't intervention can be good, bad or neutral.  Demonizing all gov't is short sighted and doesn't help solve problems.  Just as demonizing Goldman Sachs because its employees have participated in a fair number of criminal acts probably isn't productive.  And finally, burning all economically retrievable fossil fuel in a hurry, seems to me, is a bad idea on many different fronts.

None of this helps solve any problems.  I've been pretty up front in my thoughts that climate change should be a priority because of the potentially catastrophic consequences.  Are you saying that, since we will burn all fossil fuels, we should just say to hell with the climate?  Or that gov't intervention is a bad way to deal with the climate?  Or, should we rely on the private sector to solve climate problems?  Do you have suggestions on how best to address climate change?

As should be obvious, I don't see how we can dodge the climate bullet.  So, I want this site to discuss climate change and explore ways to deal with it from a data rich perspective.  The failure to do so leaves a huge hole in the middle of the three Es.

AustinHorn's picture
AustinHorn
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Not a topic, but a guest

This isn't a topic, but I'd love for Chris to have Nate Hagens on the show again.  I've listened to the podcast from last summer with Nate probably 25 times.

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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Posts: 344
How 'bout a thumbs down button?

We've got a thumbs up tab thing, now how about a thumbs down button thing - we've got ying but no yang.  Grover - no worries!  Peak stuff is real, I get it.

SingleSpeak's picture
SingleSpeak
Status: Gold Member (Online)
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Posts: 417
"Groups" could be revised

I think having a "Groups" button on the Home page would be a good idea. Right now you get there through "Discuss" or "Prepare".

If you had it from the Home Page, then when a member clicks through he/she should have at least 2 choices:

1. Groups by geographical area - All people that would like to get together with other CM'ers in their area would join this group by entering their zip code. Anyone that wants to host a group would enter the zip code where they are based. The geographical groups that already exist would just add their zip to their "info". So now you have all interested people and all geographical groups in one database.

Next you could have a zip code entry box and a miles radius box. The member would enter their zip code and then a number of miles they are willing to go to connect with others. All groups and all members within that radius would then pop up.

Then you could join one or more of these groups if you wanted, or an even more useful option would be a "contact all" feature. Let's say you typed in a radius of 60 miles. Let's say 4 members popped up. You hit the "contact all" button and send out a private message to all.

"I'm planning a meeting to discuss __________ in 2 weeks at _______________. Would you be interested in attending?

2. Groups by topic - Here you would have 2 options: a "List of Groups" option i.e., Firearms, Raising GMO Free Hamsters, etc. or a "Search by Keyword" option.

Just my 2 cents. Without the Groups on the Home Page I (and probably others) don't think to check them.

SS

John Lemieux's picture
John Lemieux
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Posts: 221
treebeard wrote: For my own

treebeard wrote:

For my own part, rehashing issues relative to the crash course are not of particular interest to me, peak oil, climate change, economic collapse (what ever that particular version of that you may believe).  There is so much work to be done to create a possitive response to the crisis in the offing, that discussing why the house is burning is not, in my mind, the most productive use of time.

There will be those who are new to these issues who land at this site and there are probably enough folks on the site who will be interested in engaging in a debate about the realities of these issues.  For my own mind the need to change transcends the three E's.  If we were not running out of oil and global warming did not exist, we would still need to change.  There is a crisis of spirit and the three E's are only a physical manifestation of that.

Getting caught up in the dark side of all this can be addictive.  There is an emotional attachment that can form around the intensity that it generates.  A blistering arguement about issues that threaten humanity, now that is engaging, talking about the best time to put compost around your tomatoes, ho hum!

How do we transcend the current self destructive system without allowing our morbib curiosity about it's collapse suck is down with it?  How can we get beyond our fears and issues surrounding self preservation which drive us inward and make us more self centered, more part of the old paradigm?  How do we reach beyond ourselves to create community?

I would love to hear about what others have for a possitive vision of the future after the SHTF?  What will you be doing on a daily basis, what will your community look like, how will you be making your living?  What will your friends and family be doing?  Where will your food come from, what will your house look like, what will your town, village, city look like?  What will the schools be like?

What creative things is everybody doing to bring this about?  Where are you in your journey, what are your challenges, interests?

My two cents

It's time leave the bar at the Titanic and the discussion 

John Lemieux's picture
John Lemieux
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Posts: 221
treebeard wrote: For my own

treebeard wrote:

For my own part, rehashing issues relative to the crash course are not of particular interest to me, peak oil, climate change, economic collapse (what ever that particular version of that you may believe).  There is so much work to be done to create a possitive response to the crisis in the offing, that discussing why the house is burning is not, in my mind, the most productive use of time.

There will be those who are new to these issues who land at this site and there are probably enough folks on the site who will be interested in engaging in a debate about the realities of these issues.  For my own mind the need to change transcends the three E's.  If we were not running out of oil and global warming did not exist, we would still need to change.  There is a crisis of spirit and the three E's are only a physical manifestation of that.

Getting caught up in the dark side of all this can be addictive.  There is an emotional attachment that can form around the intensity that it generates.  A blistering arguement about issues that threaten humanity, now that is engaging, talking about the best time to put compost around your tomatoes, ho hum!

How do we transcend the current self destructive system without allowing our morbib curiosity about it's collapse suck is down with it?  How can we get beyond our fears and issues surrounding self preservation which drive us inward and make us more self centered, more part of the old paradigm?  How do we reach beyond ourselves to create community?

I would love to hear about what others have for a possitive vision of the future after the SHTF?  What will you be doing on a daily basis, what will your community look like, how will you be making your living?  What will your friends and family be doing?  Where will your food come from, what will your house look like, what will your town, village, city look like?  What will the schools be like?

What creative things is everybody doing to bring this about?  Where are you in your journey, what are your challenges, interests?

My two cents

It's time leave the bar at the Titanic and the discussion 

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1836
Strategic Group Vision?

Not sure if this is the right place to post, but I think the strategic Group vision would be important for us to understand and know more about.

Say we create groups,  build up content, and get a good community going. And then it becomes a $10 monthly charge to continue using the content and community created. Is that fore-knowledge already keeping people from participating as much as they could in groups?

For a person who can't afford to be, or doesn't see the value of, contributing $120 per year, it seems to makes sense to continue working with the old forums, which are still available and free - and something we are all used to. The participation is more wide-spread, the camaraderie is already there, etc.

Of course one way to drive migration to groups might be to remove the forums or make them read-only (i.e. no more new comments or forum topics). But then that could also mean an exodus to other web sites with free bulletin boards/forums. Perhaps even to other sites that can host groups, like Google or Yahoo! Groups.

So what I would like to understand, and see communicated more clearly and persuasively to us, is what kind of master plan there is for Groups? What is the value proposition - beyond what people within these groups are already providing for free to others on their own - that will make the monthly $10 charge worthwhile?

Thank you.

Poet

Cigre57803's picture
Cigre57803
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Posts: 1
I agree.

It is interesting that we the people still have a say in what the present political arena that makes it seem like we the people have no vote and no voice. A very small group, probably less than 5-7% of the entire US population is being exagerated to the extreme for the Demobublicans and Repoblocrats to defuse all our civil rights and the Constitution. OH, never mind, Who cares any way.

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
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Posts: 1399
you do one, you get the other

Regarding the wish to focus on Global Warming/Climate Change as opposed to focusing on more sustainable living....

Let me put it this way.  If every one raised their own organic produce, installed a hot water and at least some solar electrical panels, if they raised their own chickens and bought local organic fabrics and learned to sew...if they heated their homes with efficient wood-burning stoves and cooled them with solar fans and screen doors and window screens...if they canned their own food and either had neighbors with honeybees or goats or produced honey or goat's milk at home...if they became less reliant on petroleum and electricity and rode bikes more and used a clothesline instead of a dryer...they'd have a smaller carbon footprint. 

So I wholeheartedly support the focus on practical preparations on this site. It does a LOT for the Environment, which is one of the 3 Es here.

Personally, I'd like to see more on how to ramp up a small solar panel system into a larger one. I'd love to see something about building a pump house for your well, too. What I don't want to see is another inernet troll-fest or a well-meaning argument about volitile issues. I'm not a climate change denier, but I would rather put my effort into real personal changes instead of debates.

Lnorris's picture
Lnorris
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Posts: 100
I agree safewrite

My goal for the second half of the year is to set up a small solar pv system in our backyard that we can use to charge a battery or two.  I'm also researching a solar pump for our rainwater collection system.

On a side note, our neighbors have asked us to help them layout a garden in their backyard!  We even talked about a co-op for our neighborhood.  I see more people putting in gardens and we have two huge community gardens that have been started over the past two years.

There was a time when we were a nation of farmers.  We may not all be able to have five, ten or one hundred acres to work on but for every garden that gets put in we take a step closer to improved food security for our families and our communities.

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A. M.
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NM

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treemagnet
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Where do I stand o'meter.....

Maybe this site isn't for everyone.  Sometimes I feel like a chicken in Chris Martenson's chicken coop aka Peak Prosperity.  I've consulted with the man twice, he's rarely commented on member comments - out of touch is what I would say, but who am I?  Nobody, thats who I am.  Chris, its time for you to lay it down - boil those beautiful scrips down to say.....half.  I was once told by  Aaron "do you talk to people like that face to face" and truthfully, yes, I do.  But text steals so much, the most innocent of phrases can be taken completely wrong.....everybody here knows what I'm saying.  I think Chris should expand on this newfound specificity, which I appreciate more than most.   I've no doubt that you're reading this in bed next to your wife.  She knows what I'm "throwin down" here.  Ask her - wives are famous for their honest opinions, I'll bet she's seen you sometimes, from now and then.....a bit, well....like - stuffy, but you've recently made HUGE strides so keep it comin!   So Chris, stop writing like a university prof....you're smarter than me and most, we get it.  We want what you've got to sell, so just say it already.  These podcasts are awesome if you've got the time - I don't, and many don't.  Alot has changed here for the good, and I'm appreciative of that......truly I am.  But this Peak Prosperity thing isn't doin it, so from one business person to another.....try harder.  You're attempt to appeal to the intellectuals and such is lost on the rest of us who clicked on the crash course.  You're mind is beautiful, but we need to know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.  We want a cerebral source to guide us, but reading you're pieces is like listening to a smart prof. who just after nearly everyone nods off says something so profound and dramtatic sends everyone scrambling for "what did he say...!!??"  I mean NO disrespect, I admire your work - and truly, if you're one of the CM or PP "Kool Aid" elite who wish to engage me.....I would reconsider.   I'm tenacious.  Yeah, I've had a few drinks tonight.  I'm mostly tired after spending the week being the first guy to work and the last leave - but its all good, I get to work tomorrrow (Saturday!!!)...... after just finishing P90X abs and some truly sadistic "Insanity" exercie video four out of five nights (prepping......I has it).  Actually, bring it.....I'm tired of this p.c. crap - I'd love to argue with you union loving liberals.....aaaaah there it is.........you've no idea the house I was raised in..........Go Ron Paul! 

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Solar Power

I concur with safewrite that continued emphasis on home solar power would be helpful to all of us.  I know solar power is expensive but in the next few years I expect more technical breakthroughs as well as increased economies of scale. Continued kudos to Chris & Adam for the great job they are doing!

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What can we do?

Doug wrote:

Quote:

4) Government intervention. As an example, I have seen several posts in this thread concerning climate change. Fossil fuels are simply too energy rich and therefore economically attractive to leave in the ground. If we don't burn them, someone else will. What are we going to do about it? Should we use our government's power to keep the "undeserving" from consuming "our oil?" Government comes with bureaucracies and bureaucrats that expect lucrative salaries, substantial benefits, and generous retirement packages. (When was the last time you saw a government bureaucracy dismantle voluntarily???) The bottom line is that it is an expensive (and mostly ineffectual) waste of resources. I understand why Chris doesn't chime on the controversial topics, but I'd like to see viable options to stop the incessant government takeovers.

I'm a little confused by this paragraph.  As near as I can figure, your points are gov't intervention is bad, all retrievable fossil fuels will be burned and somehow you conflate those two points into something about climate change.

Doug,

I apologize for trying to cover too much ground in such a short message. First off, I do not blame government workers. They are doing the job they were hired to perform. If it weren't for them, other people would fill the void left behind. The problem is much more sinister and at a higher level.

<sarcasm> You may find this shocking, but there are groups out there who have considerable resources and are willing to "support" congressmen who vote according to their preferences. To make matters worse, these folks "suggest" language that is to be inserted into Bills that will grant them special favors at everyone's expense. They really don't care about the morality or sustainability as long as it pads their particular bottom line. </sarcasm>

When I look at the costs of all the "do gooder" legislation (social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare, unfunded mandates to save the world, etc.) I see that we simply can't afford it! Congress requires every entity bigger than a few-person shop to abide by GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.) My interpretation of GAAP is that an employer who promises a future benefit (pension, health care, etc.) must set aside enough money during the year with a credible plan to grow those funds in time to cover those promises. Congress requires States, counties, cities, large corps, small corps, non-profits, and large family owned businesses to follow this standard. Curiously, they exempt the Federal Government from these regulations.

If Congress applied the same standards to the Federal promises, the Federal GAAP deficit in FY 2011 would amount to approximately $5 trillion. That number is hard to fathom, so to put it in more meaningful terms, there are approximately 110 million households in the country. If the $5T was split evenly amongst those families, each family would owe another $43,000 more in 2011 taxes. The problem is that the median family income in 2011 was slightly more than $49,000. (I can provide references if you'd like, but I don't want to look it up now.) Does that seem sustainable to you? Can we afford to pile on more unfunded commitments?

Doug wrote:

Seems to me we should start with data:  Climate change is happening and may well be worse than overly cautious scientists have been telling us.  That's pretty verifiable.  Gov't intervention can be good, bad or neutral.  Demonizing all gov't is short sighted and doesn't help solve problems.  Just as demonizing Goldman Sachs because its employees have participated in a fair number of criminal acts probably isn't productive.  And finally, burning all economically retrievable fossil fuel in a hurry, seems to me, is a bad idea on many different fronts.

None of this helps solve any problems.  I've been pretty up front in my thoughts that climate change should be a priority because of the potentially catastrophic consequences.  Are you saying that, since we will burn all fossil fuels, we should just say to hell with the climate?  Or that gov't intervention is a bad way to deal with the climate?  Or, should we rely on the private sector to solve climate problems?  Do you have suggestions on how best to address climate change?

As should be obvious, I don't see how we can dodge the climate bullet.  So, I want this site to discuss climate change and explore ways to deal with it from a data rich perspective.  The failure to do so leaves a huge hole in the middle of the three Es.

I used climate change as an example of what we cannot afford to worry about. On the Global climate change thread, I posted this message in December, 2011 http://www.peakprosperity.com/comment/124681#comment-124681

Grover wrote:

Doug,

It is nice to be informed of problems with the world, but it is better to have a plan for dealing with the problems. I'm wondering what kind of remedy you think the US should advocate. In this post, http://www.peakprosperity.com/comment/117560#comment-117560, I've stated briefly what my concerns are. Please give me a reason to not be so pessimistic.

Grover

Quite frankly, I don't think there is an option where we can save the populace from themselves. The worst thing we can do is to simply "try something" for the sake of trying. Before I will climb on board the band wagon, you'll have to produce a credible plan that can be enforced worldwide.

I remember when Jimmy Carter told us to wear sweaters to conserve fuel. He even installed solar panels on the White House. Ronald Reagan painted him as a wimp and said "the American way of life is non-negotiable." One of the first things Ronnie did was rip out those solar panels. Do you think any presidential candidate will make the same mistake that Carter made? Will we actually do more than dress the windows with good intentions?

I see that all fossil fuels which can be economically extracted will be eventually consumed. Should we make it painful and more expensive to the populace while the special interests receive a pass? If it were all burned up today, there would be approximately 7 billion humans affected. If we're able to stretch it out to mid 21st century, some estimates say that the earth will have 9 billion inhabitants to suffer. Which plan is more humane?

Grover

SingleSpeak's picture
SingleSpeak
Status: Gold Member (Online)
Joined: Dec 1 2008
Posts: 417
I totally agree....

Maybe this site isn't for everyone.  Sometimes I feel like a chicken in Chris Martenson's chicken coop aka Peak Prosperity.  I've consulted with the man twice, he's rarely commented on member comments - out of touch is what I would say, but who am I?  Nobody, thats who I am.  Chris, its time for you to lay it down - boil those beautiful scrips down to say.....half.  I was once told by  Aaron "do you talk to people like that face to face" and truthfully, yes, I do.  But text steals so much, the most innocent of phrases can be taken completely wrong.....everybody here knows what I'm saying.  I think Chris should expand on this newfound specificity, which I appreciate more than most.   I've no doubt that you're reading this in bed next to your wife.  She knows what I'm "throwin down" here.  Ask her - wives are famous for their honest opinions, I'll bet she's seen you sometimes, from now and then.....a bit, well....like - stuffy, but you've recently made HUGE strides so keep it comin!   So Chris, stop writing like a university prof....you're smarter than me and most, we get it.  We want what you've got to sell, so just say it already.  These podcasts are awesome if you've got the time - I don't, and many don't.  Alot has changed here for the good, and I'm appreciative of that......truly I am.  But this Peak Prosperity thing isn't doin it, so from one business person to another.....try harder.  You're attempt to appeal to the intellectuals and such is lost on the rest of us who clicked on the crash course.  You're mind is beautiful, but we need to know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.  We want a cerebral source to guide us, but reading you're pieces is like listening to a smart prof. who just after nearly everyone nods off says something so profound and dramtatic sends everyone scrambling for "what did he say...!!??"  I mean NO disrespect, I admire your work - and truly, if you're one of the CM or PP "Kool Aid" elite who wish to engage me.....I would reconsider.   I'm tenacious.  Yeah, I've had a few drinks tonight.  I'm mostly tired after spending the week being the first guy to work and the last leave - but its all good, I get to work tomorrrow (Saturday!!!)...... after just finishing P90X abs and some truly sadistic "Insanity" exercie video four out of five nights (prepping......I has it).  Actually, bring it.....I'm tired of this p.c. crap - I'd love to argue with you union loving liberals.....aaaaah there it is.........you've no idea the house I was raised in..........Go Ron Paul! 

with the last three words of this post.wink

SS

ao's picture
ao
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Posts: 2220
treemagnet wrote: Maybe this

treemagnet wrote:

Maybe this site isn't for everyone.  Sometimes I feel like a chicken in Chris Martenson's chicken coop aka Peak Prosperity.  I've consulted with the man twice, he's rarely commented on member comments - out of touch is what I would say, but who am I?  Nobody, thats who I am.  Chris, its time for you to lay it down - boil those beautiful scrips down to say.....half.  I was once told by  Aaron "do you talk to people like that face to face" and truthfully, yes, I do.  But text steals so much, the most innocent of phrases can be taken completely wrong.....everybody here knows what I'm saying.  I think Chris should expand on this newfound specificity, which I appreciate more than most.   I've no doubt that you're reading this in bed next to your wife.  She knows what I'm "throwin down" here.  Ask her - wives are famous for their honest opinions, I'll bet she's seen you sometimes, from now and then.....a bit, well....like - stuffy, but you've recently made HUGE strides so keep it comin!   So Chris, stop writing like a university prof....you're smarter than me and most, we get it.  We want what you've got to sell, so just say it already.  These podcasts are awesome if you've got the time - I don't, and many don't.  Alot has changed here for the good, and I'm appreciative of that......truly I am.  But this Peak Prosperity thing isn't doin it, so from one business person to another.....try harder.  You're attempt to appeal to the intellectuals and such is lost on the rest of us who clicked on the crash course.  You're mind is beautiful, but we need to know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.  We want a cerebral source to guide us, but reading you're pieces is like listening to a smart prof. who just after nearly everyone nods off says something so profound and dramtatic sends everyone scrambling for "what did he say...!!??"  I mean NO disrespect, I admire your work - and truly, if you're one of the CM or PP "Kool Aid" elite who wish to engage me.....I would reconsider.   I'm tenacious.  Yeah, I've had a few drinks tonight.  I'm mostly tired after spending the week being the first guy to work and the last leave - but its all good, I get to work tomorrrow (Saturday!!!)...... after just finishing P90X abs and some truly sadistic "Insanity" exercie video four out of five nights (prepping......I has it).  Actually, bring it.....I'm tired of this p.c. crap - I'd love to argue with you union loving liberals.....aaaaah there it is.........you've no idea the house I was raised in

I have to say that I am diametrically opposed to the core message of this post.

THANK GOD that Chris is not a participant in the vast "dumbing down America" conspiracy.  Maybe improving our education, challenging our minds, and getting the fluoride, apartame, statins, GMO grains, and other crap out of our food chain would allow our brains to function as they were designed and elevate our society. 

P.S. Better not to drink before writing something like this.  It shows.

P.P.S. Doing high intensity exercise four out of five days in a row is counterproductive to both health and physical improvement.

P.P.P.S. I see the positive benefit of unions and support their existence (with reasonable internal and exteernal controls in place) and I'm NOT a liberal.  Look at the historical pre-union exploitation of the working class and see if you would like being treated that way.

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treemagnet
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ao

I just would prefer more insight to the myriad of preps deemed the most necessary.  This site is great, but on many topics it becomes a forum for lofty discussion arguing ever more finer facets of the issue at hand.  And thats cool, the question was what do you want to see here on PP, I said I want more specifics with a CM endorsement - and I bit more, but so what.  I can't see how this is "dumbing down America"?  I too would LOVE to rid the world of fluoride, aspartame, etc.  And you're wrong about the exercise cause you don't know my program, but I hear you.  I should have mentioned public unions = bad, private - who cares.  Anyway, I just want to reap the benefits of others experiences on preparations without going through 000's of threads, and a "buy/do this, don't buy/do that" list or such would be most efficient.  Have a great day! 

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cmartenson
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Thank you for all the helpful suggestions

Thank you all for participating in this conversation and for letting us know what topics you'd most like to have covered and ways we might improve the site.

Believe me, we take everything to heart.

It's a crazy world out there and there's always too much to cover, and both of those features seem to be increasing with every passing day.

Thanks again and keep it coming!

Best,
Chris M.

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treebeard
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Posts: 348
What will collapse really look like

I agree with Gary's post, he hits the nail on the head, but I think a lot of recent posts put a little to much on Chris.  There are limitations to what a web site and any individual or small team of people can do.  Please do remember we are all ultimately responsble for our own fate.

Chris has done a great job of assembling and codifying information but the same information is generally allready availavble elsewhere.  There are many people involved in many movements that are all working to the same end.  Lets take a load off, huh?

This is a great site and there is a lot of great information here.  I participate and contribute here because this is about the best site out there dealing with these issues. I don't agree with some of the participants point of views, but I do enough reading elsewhere that I understand their point of view and where I differ. I don't entirely agree with Chris's point of view either, but I can still learn something from what is discussed here. That diversity is a good thing!

As I have said in other posts, I would like to see more possitive visioning of the future.  I think this is critical is because it deeply effects what we are preparing for!  It also helps create the future that we all collectively want to see.  The default mode is prepare for a distopian vision in which if you don't make yourself your going to have to do without.  Very few people are prepared to that degree, perhaps one in a million at best.  That is going to leave a very small population indeed if the worst happens.

Is the network that provides our food and energy going to disappear entirely?  Probably not, but in all likelyhood it may be intermitant and a lot more expensive.  What is the likely out come and what specifically do we need to do to set up resilient structures now. This would be a great line of discussion.

Is the level of specialization in our societly going to disappear entirely?  Probably not, but things will probably be a lot less complex, we will all probably own a lot less stuff.  But what levels of specialization will still exist, what skills will still be needed, another great line of discussion.

Will social cohesion disappear all together? No, but what will the new structure look like, likely it will be a lot more local.  What can we do now to create those networks and structures now.

You get the point, and CM can not begin to tackle all this on his own.  We all have our areas of expertise, and our diverse living conditions.  Each will require different types and levels of preparation.  We collective need to commit to doing this together, each in our own way and participte (Turn off the TV and radio).  What fun!  Lets get the heck out of the fear space and collective create the future that is our own hands.

Forget about sitting white knuckled in front of your lap top, worrying about timing the silver market.  Lets make the silver market irrelevant:

You have been telling people that this is the Eleventh Hour, now you
must go back and tell the people that this is the Hour. And there are
things to be considered. . . .

Where are you living?
What are you doing?
What are your relationships?
Are you in right relation?
Where is your water?

Know your garden.
It is time to speak your truth.
Create your community.
Be good to each other.
And do not look outside yourself for your leader.

Then he clasped his hands together, smiled, and said, "This could be a
good time! There is a river flowing now very fast. It is so great and
swift that there are those who will be afraid. They will try to hold on
to the shore. They will feel they are being torn apart and will suffer
greatly. Know the river has its destination. The elders say we must let
go of the shore, push off into the middle of the river, keep our eyes
open, and our heads above the water.

And I say, see who is in there with you and celebrate. At this time in
history, we are to take nothing personally, least of all ourselves. For
the moment that we do, our spiritual growth and journey come to a halt.

The time of the one wolf is over. Gather yourselves!
Banish the word 'struggle' from your attitude and your vocabulary. All
that we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration.

We are the ones we've been waiting for.

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herewego
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news from the not-so-affluent nations please

Lots of great ideas on this thread!

I like CHM's "Collapse Reports from the Ground" suggestion. The few first hand descriptions I've run into have been quite eye-opening.

Re: T.Tanner's and others’ comments on Climate Change.... All true. We are definitely having to re-learn gardening in a new climate where I live. The new long, wet, cold springs have made crop covers non-optional, for example. If I were depending on my winter squash for winter food this year I'd starve. However, I LOVE this site for its intelligent, civil interactions and am fine for now with having Climate Change threads live in the basement even if it is a compromise. We can share and brainstorm down there too.  I suppose another possible approach to the CC topic would be rigorous moderation, with no tolerence for the rudeness it tends to bring out. (Why is that, anyway?  Maybe because the implications of Climate Change, should it prove to be actual and factual, are undie-soiling terrifying?)

I would like to see more international content, and more understanding that the preoccupation citizens of affluent nations have with preserving tertiary wealth is neither a truly global concern nor perhaps a very long-lived one. Most of our species will be busy re-learning a sane way of working with primary and secondary wealth in the interest of surviving. I'm as interested in how people with no money all around the world are moving towards sustainability as I am in what's happening to middle class Euro holdings or the prices of silver and gold, gruesomely riveting though that all is. 

I also always love those posts where a bit of the author's vision, heart or soul shows through.  Hope alone is a terrible strategy, yes.  What we hope for and love though are very beautiful parts of us.  I don't dream of only surviving all this.  A long time ago, when I knew none of the 3-E info and only knew what I loved, I wrote this:

I look for unfoldment

of wet, wobbly wings

and sing praise for even uncertain

erratic flights

if they soar and plunge past

the blind rotten face

of our mass savage inertia

towards realms where all beings live

in open and unstopping

joy.

Still true, reams of difficult, worldview-changing information later. 

Could we share more of our visionary selves here somehow?

Many thanks to Chris, his team and all of you post-peak posters for the informing, stimulating, motivating conversations we have on this site.

Susan

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ScubaRoo
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Posts: 34
Peak Oil timing.. when and how rapid a decline?

Check out the discussion with Chris here, how much will Shale, Oil Sands & EOR delay PeakOil?

http://www.stansberryradio.com/PorterStansberry/LatestEpisodes/Episode/63

They give Chris a bit of an unfair rough ride, but we know Chris has plenty of intelligent experience in this field.

Cheers,

SR

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ScubaRoo
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Posts: 34
joemanc wrote: Darn if I can

joemanc wrote:

Darn if I can remember the economist's name, but a few months ago, Chris was interviewed by him. He doesn't believe in Peak Oil, even made a silver bet with Chris that the US would be producing more oil in 10 years, I believe, than we have ever produced, and while he brought up some very good points, I still disagree with him over his denial of Peak Oil.

I think if it's the right person, then sure, let's bring differing views and opinions in to the mix. We may even learn something from them.

Hi.,

See my other post...
http://www.stansberryradio.com/PorterStansberry/LatestEpisodes/Episode/63

:-)

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Nate
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Posts: 459
Stansberry

ScubaRoo wrote:
Check out the discussion with Chris here, how much will Shale, Oil Sands & EOR delay PeakOil? http://www.stansberryradio.com/PorterStansberry/LatestEpisodes/Episode/63 They give Chris a bit of an unfair rough ride, but we know Chris has plenty of intelligent experience in this field.

If you want to listen to how a class act (Chris) responds to a jerk (Stansberry), listen to this link.  My wife (who rarely swears) was listening in and as she walked past me muttered "what an ass hole". 

Nate

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treebeard
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Posts: 348
Techno Fantasy Insanity

ScubaRoo

Thanks for posting that link, I think.  That was painfull to listen to. "Capital determines oil production not geology".  "All farmers love gmo's", to bad those crazy europeans will not let them import the stuff.

This is why we are sleep walking off a cliff. We can have whatever we want because we want it.  We can continue to have a one sided relationship with the world, if things don't go well we can just keep pushing harder, and we'll have our way anyway.  We don't need introspection, or objective scientific observations that are not funded by multinationals.  There will never be any consequences to our actions that will require us to change our way of being, technology will always save us.  Solar doesn't work because we are never going to run out of oil.

Ouch, I guess it is good that Chris is willing to have conversations with pompous wind bags like that.  It was an interesting insight into a portion of the corporate mind set that is propelling us into oblivion. Kudos to Chris, he stayed calm and professional through the whole thing.

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Damnthematrix
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Posts: 3998
Stansberry

Nate wrote:

ScubaRoo wrote:
Check out the discussion with Chris here, how much will Shale, Oil Sands & EOR delay PeakOil? http://www.stansberryradio.com/PorterStansberry/LatestEpisodes/Episode/63 They give Chris a bit of an unfair rough ride, but we know Chris has plenty of intelligent experience in this field.

If you want to listen to how a class act (Chris) responds to a jerk (Stansberry), listen to this link.  My wife (who rarely swears) was listening in and as she walked past me muttered "what an ass hole". 

Nate

That guy has to be the rudest sob I've ever heard.........  how unprofessional to laugh at the person you are interviewing, no matter how much you disagree with him?

He totally lost me when he said oil production was infinite because all you need is infinite capital.....  Ass hole?  Maybe.  Dumb ass?  FOR SURE!

Mike

ao's picture
ao
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Posts: 2220
more on Stansberry

Nate wrote:

ScubaRoo wrote:
Check out the discussion with Chris here, how much will Shale, Oil Sands & EOR delay PeakOil? http://www.stansberryradio.com/PorterStansberry/LatestEpisodes/Episode/63 They give Chris a bit of an unfair rough ride, but we know Chris has plenty of intelligent experience in this field.

If you want to listen to how a class act (Chris) responds to a jerk (Stansberry), listen to this link.  My wife (who rarely swears) was listening in and as she walked past me muttered "what an ass hole". 

Nate

And guess who is connected with Agora Financial, one of the founding members of HHA?  And some people wonder why I'm uncomfortable with that arrangement?  Connect the dots people and exercise due diligence.

http://briandeer.com/vaxgen/stansberry-fraud.htm

P.S.  I'm not too enamored with some other founding members of HHA either.

https://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/is-john-mauldin-winning-the-battle-with-barry-ritholtz-for-economic-ignorance/

Too much self promotion makes me uncomfortable.

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RJE
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Posts: 1369
Chris handled himself well

Chris handled himself well and besides it's easy to dismiss folks who will never conceptualize a chart that from 2002 until the present goes straight up as oil does." Finite capital!!!"  While a true statement why he cannot connect the dots from there to what Chris presented is beyond me. Crazy. I pay him no mind at all.

Here's another recent video with Chris and a couple of other smart dudes in case you missed it.

http://moneymappress.com/pro/Pyramid0712EADMMR.php?code=EPYRN820&n=PYRAMIDEAD49MMRMMP&o=774451&s=779552&u=31030906&l=471914&g=378&r=Milo

Regards

BOB

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gpoulsen
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Posts: 14
Chris Indeed Handled Himself Well

Couldn't agree more Bob.  People like this Stansberry guy probably have never worked at a job that actually made something.  They think that capital comes out of thin air.  I live very close to that big hole in the ground that Chris has used in some of his presentation, the Bingham Canyon Copper Mine.  There will come a time with that hole that no matter how much capital is put into it, it won't produce any more copper.  That time is about 20 years away.  Maybe Stansberry should go dig some dirt in there and see how much copper he gets.

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JAG
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Posts: 2489
treemagnet wrote: These

treemagnet wrote:

These podcasts are awesome if you've got the time - I don't, and many don't.  

This is a ridiculous criticism. Get a freaking iPod or smart phone and listen to them while you are driving to and from work, or while working in the yard/garden, or doing mindless household chores. 

Podcasts save our time. Your posts waste our time.

tricky rick's picture
tricky rick
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 9 2011
Posts: 69
taxation!!

Hey Adam...  first, thanks to you and Chris and your organiztion for this outlet.

How about a section on TAXATION.

with financial repression coming (already here) as a way for the goverment to try to lower the debt (on the backs of the saves btw), taxation is going to be a HUGE story for any capital gains.

2013 - it WILL be the story with lower paychecks for nearly everyone!

thanks...

MarkBahner's picture
MarkBahner
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 24 2012
Posts: 58
Interviewees that do not agree with Chris!

Hi,

I'd be happy to fill the role as one of the "interviewees who do not agree with Chris". smiley

On my blog, and on the "Long Bets" website, I predicted that world per-capita GDP, which was about $7200 in 2000, will exceed the following values (in year 2000 dollars):

$13,000 in the year 2020

$31,000 in 2040

$130,000 in 2060

$1,000,000 in 2080, and

$10,000,000 in 2100.

http://longbets.org/194/

http://markbahner.typepad.com/random_thoughts/2004/10/3rd_thoughts_on.html

Further, I offered a rebuttal as the "Exponential Engineer" to the "Finite Physicist" (Tom Murphy)...see my blog post of May 09, 2012.

Mark Bahner

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1836
I Want A Ringside Seat!

If such a debate is ever arranged between Mark Bahner and Chris Martenson, I want a ringside seat with butter popcorn and a Diet Coke Slurpee. This ought to be fascinating! And a very one-sided victory.

I salute your bravery, Mark. Although you could be nominally correct... Until a few years ago, per capita income in Zimbabwean dollars was shooting through the roof!

Poet

MarkBahner wrote:

Hi,

I'd be happy to fill the role as one of the "interviewees who do not agree with Chris". smiley

On my blog, and on the "Long Bets" website, I predicted that world per-capita GDP, which was about $7200 in 2000, will exceed the following values (in year 2000 dollars):

$13,000 in the year 2020

$31,000 in 2040

$130,000 in 2060

$1,000,000 in 2080, and

$10,000,000 in 2100.

http://longbets.org/194/

http://markbahner.typepad.com/random_thoughts/2004/10/3rd_thoughts_on.html

Further, I offered a rebuttal as the "Exponential Engineer" to the "Finite Physicist" (Tom Murphy)...see my blog post of May 09, 2012.

Mark Bahner

MarkBahner's picture
MarkBahner
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 24 2012
Posts: 58
Initial debate question

Hi,

If you're going to sit ringside, you'll have to do some thinking and research. I rely on the debate audience to  arrive at their conclusions themselves.

So a kickoff question: What do you think causes wealth?

A couple follow-up questions: There are probably over 7 billion birds on the planet. What is their per-capita GDP? How about the per-capita GDP of chimps?

Mark

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Initial debate question

MarkBahner wrote:
So a kickoff question: What do you think causes wealth?

Not inflation, that's for sure.......!

Mike

MarkBahner's picture
MarkBahner
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 24 2012
Posts: 58
Yes, inflation definitely doesn't cause wealth

No argument there. Inflation definitely doesn't cause wealth.

But my question was about what *does* cause wealth, not what doesn't. wink

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
MarkBahner wrote:No argument

MarkBahner wrote:

No argument there. Inflation definitely doesn't cause wealth.

But my question was about what *does* cause wealth, not what doesn't. wink

The reason for my snide remark was this.....:

On my blog, and on the "Long Bets" website, I predicted that world per-capita GDP, which was about $7200 in 2000, will exceed the following values (in year 2000 dollars):

$13,000 in the year 2020

$31,000 in 2040

$130,000 in 2060

$1,000,000 in 2080, and

$10,000,000 in 2100.

Which looks an awful lot like inflation to me.

Mike

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