Theater Shooting

A. M.
By A. M. on Sun, Jul 22, 2012 - 1:41pm

We've probably all heard just about our fill on this latest tradgedy, and I don't want to talk about the politics involved. This event has brought a few key points to my attention, and I'd like to address them with this community, so we can hold a more comprehensive understanding of crime, and personal safety - even if we're not in our homes, we need to be thinking about these kinds of things.

If you're not familiar with this event, here are two articles upon which I'll draw when making my inferences:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/police-work-to-id-victims-colorado-massacre-delay-probe-suspect-apartment/

http://www.usatoday.com/video/weapons-used-in-colorado-theater-shooting/1746098041001

So, we can look at this problem from 3 Environmental angles:
1. Tactical - dealing with movement and threats
2. Kinetic - the application of force and the results
3. Physical - the elements of the event and their impact

With this in mind, this is a "Response to Active Shooter" scenario, and a hugely difficult one.
First, let's look at the environment:

PHYSICAL
The event took place in a crowded theater, at ~midnight. The theater was an opening event, and was crowded. Theaters generally have on external exit, and one main exit, with two relatively long corridors, which are open overhead, leading to the seating area, and stairs flanking and bisecting the seating areas. Theaters are also dark. While this is all common knowledge, we need to 'be there' mentally for this exercise.

This is particularly important, because most of the seating sits elevated above the entry. The architectural geometry creates some very distinct problems:
- At the height of the seating, you're as far from the exit as you could be, in terms of distance traveled.
- Because of the open top corridors, a motivated person can jump from the seating area, to put themselves closer to the exit.
- You have to descend narrow stairs to reach the exit, and the exits are located at the end of two long corridors.
- Each corridor is, in essence, a "fatal funnel" - an area in which you are at risk of being in the direct line of assault.
- The maximum capacity of a theater is ~300 people.

...and it's a gun free zone.

KINETIC 
With regards to the kinetic aspects, we have two clear options - escape, or engage.
To do either, you would have to traverse this environment, moving through a sea of people, of which, many are being targeted, are wounded, or are panicing. This presents a huge problem to both of our kinetic options. A clear opportunity to engage and the ability to escape are severely hampered by the physical environment, and the liability of engaging the threat carries with it a very significant chance of inadvertantly injuring an innocent. This environment makes it very difficult to do anything, and puts us squarely in the Type I emergency category.
In addition, the aggressor was armored head to toe.

TACTICAL
The tactical environment offers very little in the way of advantage. Almost anything you could conceal yourself behind will be insufficient to stop bullets of any caliber. The seats are low, and offer no ballistic protection. The adversary has entered the facility facing the audience, and created a visual diversion by using smoke bombs. This process effectively blocked the most distal (exterior) exit, which allowed the threat to utilize the physical environment to his advantage.
This tactical situation accomplishes several things:
- It maintains the three principles of CQB: Speed, simplicity and violence of action.
- It severely degrades a responder's ability to counteract an attack.
- It buys him time.

So, with these things in mind, what can we do?

First, we establish our priorities:
1. Stay alive - seems like a good place to start

2a. Observe: analyze the options; engage or retreat - from there, we will decide how best to address the threat. Do you have loved ones with you? Children? WHere are you positioned in the theater? Where can you exit to? Use as cover or concealment?
- Engage: In order to do this, we need a few things:
* A weapon - the one between your ears, most notably, but your odds will increase with proper tools.
* A clear line of sight, unobstructed by innocents
* A position of concealment, cover or an angle from which you can regain initiave (If you want to survive the exchange)
- Retreat: This option is almost as bad as engaging, as you're competing with ~300 other who've got the same idea. A good majority of the injuries were those trampling one another to get out.

2b. Orient: Take stock of where you are, what angles you can use, where the flow of foot traffic and the angles of attack are. 

2c. Decide- The overwhelming impression I get is that no one made a decision in this case. The disorientation was so prevelant, that people defaulted to panic. Having your wits about you is empowering when you are forced into a 'reactive' scenario - think these things through in advance... contemplate the possibilities as a mental game, not as a continual fear or paranoia.

2d. Act - Whatever you do - move! Don't get caught by the panic, and bind up. The hysteria that comes with mobs of terrified mammals is not something you want to get trapped in. Act deliberately, and use your observations (knowing who's around you, good and bad), orientation (forming a plan quickly to meet the emergency)  and decision to act intelligently. How are those around you going to react to you presenting a firearm? Are you capable of making the shot? Of wrestling the weapon away?

The military uses the term "assault through" to denote fighting a losing battle against a superior force. Surprisingly, it works. An overwhelming and unexpected counterattack can steal initiative and buy you some precious time to work the problem on your terms. 

If you can't fight through, be deliberate and stay oriented. Staying alert and not panicing will go a long way in keeping your OODA loop going strong.

3. Be prepared for the fallout of either decision. If you've got the equipment, get out from under fire and treat the injured - be ready for the police to rough you up. Be ready for a disorientating slew of events; media, police, judicial, familial - all these things are going to be post incident impacts that you need to be mentally ready for right now, regardless of whether you flee or engage. Do you have a way to contact you loved ones? Account for those with you? If you're placed in police custody, do your family members understand what to do?

An important note "Holmes had 4 weapons, three of them were actually found in the back of the car". (Source: USA Today, video). It's important to remember that, considering the media circus is hyper-focused on the weapons involved. 

I'm curious to hear how others view this problem, how you'd react, and what you would do if faced with this absolutely terrible situation... it's as close to a "no-win" as possible, and as evidenced by the outcome, not 1 of 300 people made the decision to fight.

How could this have been different if they had?
The outcomes could be positive or negative - the event will always be a tradgedy - but what we do can shape the scope of that tradgedy. 

I hope to hear your thoughts.
Cheers,

Aaron
 

72 Comments

Poet's picture
Poet
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Tough Situation

This is a shit sundae any way you look at it. It's dark, the guy's fully armed and armoured, and a few hundred men, women, and children around you are panicking as all hell. None of them, and none of us, has experience with this.

It's one thing to think about what one might do. (Shoot back? Put families and kids behind yourself. Try to keep them and yourself from being trampled, etc.) It's another to actually be in a life or death situation like that and execute while everyone is executing their panic plan.

I don't know what I would do. I don't know what my wife would do, I have no idea how loud my kids might cry or what they might do: they whine over the littlest things and don't have more than a 20-word vocabulary, so it's not like they would know how to play dead or keep quiet or keep calm. (Not that I would ever take them to such a movie movie until they were in their teens, but it could also have happened at a family movie.)

What? Always carry a helmet and wear a bullet-proof vest at all times? Do they come in size 18 months or 2T?

I do think that if more events like this occur, it will bring about two things:

  1. Security theatre in a theatre. We already have the TSA with their display of security theatre at airports. Maybe we'll have the Theatre Security Agency, with metal detectors and no backpacks allowed. And increases in the price of movie tickets, of course.
  2. A resolve by a significant number of theatre-goers to do what airline passengers have already figured out they have to do. Body-rush the terrorist for a chance to save lives (possibly also their own and that of their families) or die anyway.

I'll have to think some more - as well as digest the feedback from others here. But for now, here are two thoughts:

  1. One possible good thing about shooting in a dark theatre: if you keep moving, the terrorist likely won't be able to know where you are even as you are firing back because it is dark and confusing for them, too.
  2. One bad thing: two or more law-abiding patrons shooting at each other in the dark, each thinking the other may be the criminal.

Poet

Doug's picture
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Another tragic story

This apparently happened last night in a nearby county.  A police officer was in a hotel room (perhaps in bed asleep?) when he thought an intruder entered the room.  He fired at the intruder, killing him, only to discover the "intruder" was his son.

That's all I've heard so far, but it certainly emphasizes the tragic consequences of mistakes with firearms.

Tycer's picture
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I'm not much for armchair quarterbacking

I've thought on this and I can't put myself there. I don't go places that are crowded and prohibit concealed carry if I can avoid it. It does not matter whether or not I carry. Those new theaters are a logistical nightmare for egress in any emergency if you want a decent seat so they are a real rarity for me to patronize. Maybe two or three times in my life.

If I were to ever find myself in that situation I would hope that I could keep my wits about me, take a breath, fire two clean shots center mass and a third to the cranial triangle. More if necessary. I don't see much of any other way out of that mess.

Then triage and then bourbon.

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@Arundhati Roy

Arundhati Roy wrote:

Is the world really getting to such a stage where we're so paranoid with fear we've to barakade ourselves inside our homes with booby traps. Have we to carry loaded AK47's, wear a flack jacket and helmet along with carrying our popcorn and coke to our seats at a Batman movie while searching out a possible exit strategy?

Are we to check for bombs under our cars with a mirror on a stick before getting in and turning the key each morning?

The ground under my feet is as near as a certainty its a solid for the better part of my day without changing the odds that tommorrow will be any more mundane than it was today for most if not all of the other 300+ million Americans.

Seems to me in this state of affairs we're gonna end up as paranoid as the gunman was.

There's always going to be the odd assh*le who'll f*ck things up for a few people. Does it mean we're to pay another $2 bucks for a seat to our favorite movie if every movie house has gun-toating security to fend off screw-ups?

Where's this all going to end up anyhow. People have to live and get on with their day. I imagine with even the greatest amount of will, every single angle in every shopping mall and street can't be covered 100% of the time no matter what level of strategy or training through fire-power could achieve.

I'll settle for un-armed thanks. I haven't yet had to winkle my way out of a multiple shooting in my 50 odd years, even if the odds are starting to stack up against me that I will.

My choice and opinion, though others may vary.

That's me done.

As we move forward with the decline, the odds may stack up against us more. I'd like to stay alive and fit that I may help my family and community thrive in the coming years. That leads me to train my situational awareness and visualize how I would like to act in an emergency. I have changed where I go and what I take with me. Not because of any current perceived threat, but that if things do degrade socially I will be able to focus my few remaining neurons on more menial tasks, not on what to do if I am forced to defend my person, family, property or community.

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Luxury of hindsight.....

Great post Aaron....

What if someone in the crowd had been armed, and had the training to react and got off a few shots, one of which stopped the shooter, one of which was errant and killed an innocent moviegoer?  What if the final death toll in this scenario had been two by the original shooter plus one by the moviegoer who was carrying that night instead of 12?  Is 3 better than 12?

How many times would I shoot at the guy if my family were present and I was trying to protect them?

Poet makes a great point - what if there were two or more people in the crowd who were carrying that night?  In the confusion would they all be shooting at the right guy or would one of them think "This motherf*#$er has an accomplice." and start shooting at each other?

I still can't get my brain around why someone sitting within arms reach of the shooter didn't go into fight (instead of flight) mode and try to tackle the guy.  From what I've read, there were plenty of people right there that he wasn't shooting at that could have reacted and possibly stopped the guy before he got rolling.

I don't think shit sundae comes close to describing this one....

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
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Arundhati Roy wrote:Is the

Arundhati Roy wrote:

Is the world really getting to such a stage where we're so paranoid with fear we've to barakade ourselves inside our homes with booby traps. Have we to carry loaded AK47's, wear a flack jacket and helmet along with carrying our popcorn and coke to our seats at a Batman movie while searching out a possible exit strategy?

Are we to check for bombs under our cars with a mirror on a stick before getting in and turning the key each morning?

The ground under my feet is as near as a certainty its a solid for the better part of my day without changing the odds that tommorrow will be any more mundane than it was today for most if not all of the other 300+ million Americans.

Seems to me in this state of affairs we're gonna end up as paranoid as the gunman was.

There's always going to be the odd assh*le who'll f*ck things up for a few people. Does it mean we're to pay another $2 bucks for a seat to our favorite movie if every movie house has gun-toating security to fend off screw-ups?

Where's this all going to end up anyhow. People have to live and get on with their day. I imagine with even the greatest amount of will, every single angle in every shopping mall and street can't be covered 100% of the time no matter what level of strategy or training through fire-power could achieve.

I'll settle for un-armed thanks. I haven't yet had to winkle my way out of a multiple shooting in my 50 odd years, even if the odds are starting to stack up against me that I will.

My choice and opinion, though others may vary.

That's me done.

And how about this:
Do you wear your seatbelt?
Do you have auto insurance? 
Home Insurance?
Do you turn your oven off when you leave your house?
Do you wear shoes?

Life is about mitigating risk. If you're not interested in it, take your snarky comments and go to a place where your commentary is appreciated and interesting. Personally, I don't find it amusing. 
If you're interested in thinking about how to work your way out of bad situations, you've come to the right place.

If you're interested in trying to poke holes in the ideology of preparedness, you probably have not. For one, I put a LOT of effort into this post. I've had friends in the SOF community, as well as civilians read it for cogence and practicality. I've presented options for both armed and unarmed responses. Gone through great lengths to give some considerations regarding post incident responses and you're being rude and sardonic.

Arundhati, if you're not interested in the discussion, your comments are erroneous and presumptious errata. Nothing here is presented in a fashion that dictates that life must be lived with paranoia. 

Simply that prudence dictates that we are perceptive to our surroundings.

Doug,

That's truly awful. It goes to show that OODA is started with "observe" for a reason.

Tycer/Dogs,

Thanks for the great comments brothers - I appreciate the feedback. How do you respond to this kind of incident? And more important... how do you prepare?

Cheers,

Aaron

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treebeard
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The level of violence in

The level of violence in society is so endemic that it is just a matter of time before it expresses itself through some crazed individual.  Fear and violence area deadly dance partners that feed off one another.  The level of fear is so high for soo many reasons, but fear can only realy thrive when one is disconnected from reality.  I don't think there has been a generation so disconnect from reality.  Disconnected from each other, disconnected from the earth, disconnected from a rational means of supporting ourselves, disconnected from our disfunctional political system.

There is a lot of dialouge about monetary collapse, what about cultural collapse?  We have a culture that as been taken over by the values of the wealthy. The average person used to tolerate the rich like they were some crazy uncle.  We understood the depravity of those values that glorified "success" and monetary accumulation to the exclusion of all other values.  We valued being a member of a community a making a possitive contribution in our own unique way.  Now we are all expected to be investors, managing  portfolios (401K's), wheeling and dealing, bying and selling houses, trying to get instantly rich somehow, something for nothing.

We all hope, I think, that when we are faced with an extreme situation, that we will do the right thing.  But before we get to that situation there is so much we can do to stop that from coming about.  We see the the natural world around us as one driven by the rule of survival of the fitest.  But that is the projection of our own dark side.  Those species that survive our those that cooperate with the world around it.  Hopefully we can collectively discover this before our own survival is really at stake.

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How to prepare....

You really do have to worry that if some seemingly normal bloke could have this kind of mayhem in him... for no reason... what the hell is going to happen when we have some kind of collapse and a large fraction of the population actually does have a reason...  there is simply no way I will go unarmed given that we are already an armed nation (the cat's out of the bag, so to speak) and collapse is looming.

The good news is that, for the most part, the bad guys don't practice much.  My daughter and I put 300 rounds of 9mm through the Highpoint carbine and about 100 rounds of 00 buck throught the Mossberg Thunder Ranch at the range today.  My shoulder hurts.          

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know your layout - theater shooting

Many of you know I am part-time editor of a fiction magazine. One of my authors (and a dear friend) lives across the street from the theater in Aroura, CO, and had planned on being there with his son that night, but had a last-minute change of plans. So to me, this is personal. Let me lead into my response with a story.

A few evenings ago I went with my son's fiance to a coffee shop and then a sushi place for a "girl's night out." I made her change places with me so that I could watch the door. My concealed carry (purse) was within reach and ready. Same thing at the sushi place, but she gave me the door-facing spot automatically.

So like Tycer, I avoid places where I might be a victim, but way before I moved to SC there was my situational awarness that was a function of being female and working in NY City for years, in rough neighborhoods with sometimes rougher characters on my constructions sites. Heavy construction is dangerous and I could often find myself in an unexpected situtation. I was not nervous, and I was not worried, but I read  floor plans when I was going into a new site, because knowing where the stairs are could save your life in a fire or evacutation. You're talking to someone who actually counts how many doors there are to the fire stairs from my room when I stay in a hotel.

So, with that in mind, my thoughts on the theater shootings. A theater does not always have the layout Aaron described. And I used to go to the movies quite a bit since two of my sons worked for out local 16-screen multiplex and family members could get in for free. I felt pretty safe there. Let me descibe the place.

First of all, after the large, well-lit open space in front of the theater. there was a very large (200' x 400') and well-lit lobby with lots of empty space. It had armed security it due to the amount of cash changing hands. Each theater in the multiplex had four locked-from-the-outside emergency exits (with alarms if opened from the inside) down by the screens. The entrance/exit for each theater was at the top of the slope, in a vestibule with doors facing left and right off the vestibule. I usually sat in the back where I could see one of the vesibule doors.

As an exercise, I tried putting myself in the postion of the Colorado theatergoers but in MY theater. I could not imagine a scenario where the shooter came in the doors at the top of the theater I used in New York because of all the open space and distance between theaters and armed guards. The fire doors down near the screens were steel security doors with steel frames set in cinderblock walls. Certainly, even a guy in riot gear with a semiautmatic would find it a daunting target. Maybe someone of ill intent could smuggle a handgun in there: in that case there was the nearby exit and there were steel trash cans for cover until I was out the steel doors.

Here in SC there is a theater with a layout like Aaron described. It made me profoundly uncomfortable and I have not been back.

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Perspective...... Don't live in fear...

Arundhati Roy wrote:

The ground under my feet is as near as a certainty its a solid for the better part of my day without changing the odds that tomorrow will be any more mundane than it was today for most if not all of the other 300+ million Americans.

Seems to me in this state of affairs we're gonna end up as paranoid as the gunman was.

treebeard wrote:

The level of violence in society is so endemic that it is just a matter of time before it expresses itself through some crazed individual.

aaron moyer wrote:

Life is about mitigating risk.

I find that all of these comments provide an opportunity to keep things in perspective.  We have a 12 people killed/70 injured in a horrible event, but how relevant is this event in our daily lives?  Probably everyone reading this will go through life never having to experience this type of event even though they have always occured.  It is not a new phenomenon caused by video games, poverty, current economic turmoil, etc.  There will always be people that go off the rails and decide to take it out on others.  Is it becoming more common?  Absolutely - but perhaps not due to any factor other than a growing population and much more publicized in our 24x7 news on demand highly connected world.

I agree with Aaron that life is about mitigating risk.  And as far as that goes you are far more likely to be involved in a mugging, or home break in, or car accident than to be gunned down in a movie theater.  Since we can't plan for every contingency, all we can do is plan for those scenarios that are most likely to have an impact on our lives, and rogue gunman in theater should be way way way down our list.

The risk as I see it is the furor from the populace to do something about this, to save us from this type of low risk event.  However, just like all decision making during a crisis, it inevitably ends up being based on emotion rather than facts.  There will certainly be a cry to get guns out of society so that things like this won't happen, but all that does is cause the criminal to use other methods, perhaps next time they use a bomb.  But what it will do is remove a tool from the lawful citizen that allows them to protect themselves.

However, gun ownership is not only about protection from criminals, it's about the ability to stand up against rogue governments or invading forces.  It's a right and responsibility that so many are willing to give up just for the illusion of safety.  So please, it's important to keep this in perspective.  You have far more important things to worry about that the fear mongering being fed to us by the MSM. 

Aaron, I appreciate you bringing this up because it gives us a chance to think about what we would do in this type of situation.  It allows us to think first hand about some of the dangerous situations we could find ourselves in and what options we could use to respond.

Arundhati Roy, I also agree with you that we can't allow fear and paranoia to overwhelm our daily lives. We each have to decide what risks are worth addressing.

A good example of what can happen when we use fear to guide our decisions is layed out nicely by Bruce Schneier talking about the TSA after 9/11:  Why TSA Airport Security Is Harmfull And Not Merely Ineffective.

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Good post Aaron

Good post Aaron!  Comprehensive and thought-provoking.  You missed the emotional element which was the core of Arundhati Roy's comments.  S/he was confessing that the whole possibility of being the target of someone's murderous actions is more that s/he can tolerate emotionally, so s/he has decided to  focus on other things.  I don't know about your experience, but that is how I perceive most people react to the possibility of murderous violence being directed toward them: turn away in horror, change the subject, freeze in terror.  Of course, that works pretty well for the great majority of people nearly all of the time because most people never become the target of a murderer's actions and intentions (SO FAR).  But when they do become a murderer's target, they are woefully unprepared (physically, psychologically and emotionally) to deal with it, so they do whatever occurs to them at that moment (as evidenced by the theatre-goers' responses).  Interestingly enough, the powerful negative emotions stirred up by The Crash Course and the Three E's that brought us all here causes pretty much the same reaction in the people I observe and interact with.  That subject is also too emotionally terrible for most people to deal with.  But, alas, this PeakProsperity website is dedicated to taking a cold, hard look at the Three E's and dealing with it like adults, not like deer in the headlights.  And by "adults", I mean using our minds to understand and prepare for what is happening, while at the same time "dealing with" our emotions as we experience them.  Emotional resilience is a key component to survival (anywhere, anytime, under any threat).

My unique angle on the "Batman Shooting" starts with a self-satisfied smirk because it happened in a "safe" venue in one of the "safest" towns and states in the US (not in one of our ultra violent big cities).  In a few posts here I've tried to make the points that: 1) big city crime is spreading to the "safe" parts of the country, and 2) big, bad cities do have some things going for them.  Both of these opinions have met with... crickets, mostly (though more than a few cries of denial, which I take to be an emotional reaction).  I've noticed that these sensational mass murders don't happen much in big violent cities.  I believe this is because big violent cities have many more people who won't be gunned down passively, and they are often armed. This says something about the psychology of these mass murderers: they almost always chicken out in the face of determined resistance (armed or unarmed).  By chicken out, I mean: kill themselves, run away, or meekly surrender.  These mass murderers are afraid of a real fight -- they want to massacre sheep, so they go where they can find plenty of sheep.  Everyone should keep that in mind if, God forbid, you are ever in such a kill zone.  FIGHT BACK ANYWAY YOU CAN.  You'll save your dignity (though not necessarily your life) and probably have a surprising amount of success.  The "fight through" tactic/strategy you mention is exactly what I mean.

My other opinion is that our society basically creates these monsters because we guarantee them their 15 minutes of fame.  If I was a media mogul I would try to get all forms of media  to rob these nutjobs of most of their motivation by adhering to the following rules when covering these stories:

1.  Never mention the killer's name in the media.

2.  Never show the killer's picture in the media.

3.  Never air the killer's alleged or known grievances in the media.

That Virginia Tech fruitcake actually mailed his own pre-recorded press release DURING his murder spree!  Of course, the media's adoring public demands to know these details (for reasons unknown to me) so the media moguls know that there's a lot of profit in gorging the newscycle on every little tidbit regardless of whether it primes the pump for the next copycat.  Oh well, we're just going to keep having more of these because.... we must like them.

And, I promise, this is my last "insight."  Isn't it amazing how the human mind and emotions work?!  This kind of carnage really gets our attention.  12 people killed in one incident.  But who notices or cares that 12 people are murdered every 13 days in Detroit in 2012, for instance?  Apparently, not the national media or Jesse Jackson or Rev. Al Sharpton or The President or Mitt Romney.

I think a big "die off" is unavoidable because most people can't emotionally face what's coming.

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Let's apply response to every day possibilities

Well,

Aaron, as always, a well thought-out post.

I don’t want to discuss the politics or any of the other socio-psychological implications. Let’s stick with the threat.

Folks, whether you are willing to admit it or not, the fact remains that if you go out into a public place you have the potential for encountering a life threatening event and you don’t even realize it.  Can we prepare for every contingency? No. But, you can prepare yourself with some basic knowledge of how each and every one of these types of public threats evolves. I am not talking only about shootings.

If you are here reading these blogs, YOU are part of the 1%. Yes, I said 1%. Why? Read on.

Aaron outlined quite well the recent threat that claimed 12 lives and maimed physically, 59. Psychologically, the event has damaged many, many more.

He has asked simply, what would you do?  So, what would you do? What should you do, each and every time you enter a public place where there are lots of people?  Psychological preparation.

I want to examine what I see as being similar in almost every occurrence of multi-casuality threats. I don’t mean just shooting events. I mean any type of event that there is a potential for you to DIE.

#1 Disbelief

The morning after the shooting, I heard a radio broadcast where a reporter was interviewing a survivor. The survivor started off his answer to the question of “what happened?”  With the following phrase something to the effect of, “At first I thought it was part of the show, a guy came out dressed in black carrying a gun during a gun fight scene and we thought it was part of the show.” The first time I heard a statement similar to that was from another survivor. It was a survivor of the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire in 1977. That survivor’s comment was something like, “When the Bus boy ran up onto the stage and grabbed the microphone from John Davidson (who was singing at the time) and started saying there was a fire and we all had to leave, we all laughed. He was so calm. We thought it was part of the show.”  (John Davidson was a singer and a comedian in the ‘70s) Sound familiar? Here is a YouTube account of that fire.  Listen at about the 1:08 mark. They edited the entire remark. I heard the remark in its entirety in 1977. My brother had tickets to that show.  I wasn’t 21 at the time so I couldn’t go with him. He ended up not going that night. “Too crowded” he said. I am sure it saved his life.

But fire is not the same as a gunman about to take your life.  Is it? In the next example, re-read Aaron’s account of the “Physical” issues. You tell me if it’s different.

Disbelief that there is a threat then not acting on the stimulus that you are receiving and even going to the point where you rationalize away the threat “I thought it was part of the show” is the same no matter what the threat is to life and limb.

Here is another example of something that happened right in front of the victims eyes. Watch this video of the Station Night Club fire tragedy (graphic content) watch the first 30 seconds. Look at the expressions of disbelief of what was happening right in front of their eyes. I have nephews that lost friends in that fire. My wife cared for some of the burn victims. That threat occurred 26 years after the Beverly Hills Supper Club incident.

#2 Confusion

When the smoke bombs went off in the theater, it left the victims confused and frightened. Yes, by design in the gunman’s plan. But again, look at the Station Night Club fire video. The Videographer does not realize how much data he is compiling (or maybe he does) for us to use to see how a crowd reacts. Watch at the “start clock” annotation where fire is clearly visible. The crowd sensing a problem is milling around. When the music stops and then up until the “30 second” annotation there are still faces of disbelief. The videographer is moving toward the exit behind him most likely the exit they all come in through even though there was at least one exit to the flank of the stage closer to the outside and safety. But it would have meant moving TOWARD the threat.

Gunman and fire still different?

#3 Panic

O.K. The herd panics and at that point, survival is not assured – for anyone still in the room. Aaron describes narrow stairs and exits. For the gunman, this is a tactical bonanza. Revisit the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire video and listen to the first firefighter to the scene explaining what he found. He describes the exits as “jammed” with bodies. They were “Stacked up like cordwood of both the living and the dead.” On the station Night Club fire video look closely at the doorway at the 2:56 mark of the video and the 2:30 annotation. Look at the people wedged in the doorway. Even the bewildered look on a victims face as he passes the camera. Not much video has been released of the theater shooting except what I saw on ABC. But the looks on faces were the same, confusion, disbelief and panic.

These three things seem to be present in every large scale threat event whether it is a shooter, a fire, natural disaster or an explosion. You don’t have to live in fear. I would submit that the fact that there is more than one exit in a theater, the doors always swing OUT with a opening mechanism that is sometimes called a “Panic bar” (ever wonder why?) It wasn’t designed with shooters in mind; it was designed for that other threat. But, because someone designed the building with (that other threat in mind) Lives were saved because of (somewhat) easy egress.

Your challenge is to be part of the 1% who is mindful of their surroundings, mentally prepared and able to execute your plan. Remember Aaron’s Type I emergency?

What I am saying is, if you don’t like the thought of having to prepare for a shooter, think of preparing for “that other” type of threat. Just maybe you will save your life some day.

Ok, so here is what I do.

When I enter a large public gathering, in a building, (outside is a different issue) I immediately look for and count the number of exits. Yup, I sure do. Next, I guestimate the number of folks in the room. How many bodies have to fit through how many doors? (Remember the cordwood) I have become lax in recent years and haven’t been as diligent as I should be. Maybe this is a wake-up call for me.

Then, I find and mentally trace at least two exits. My first choice usually isn’t the door I came in unless I am very near that door. My primary exit if there is an “event” is usually the one that I think most folks won’t use. I think about where that exit leads. Does it have stairs? Does it empty out onto a busy street? Does it have a long hallway that I would have to navigate in the dark? The last you may not know unless you have had some training on building design or codes/ inspection.

Next I assess the risk. Am I at a heavy metal concert where pyrotechnics are surely to be part of the show? How old is the building? What time of the year is it? (Furnaces running overtime) What’s the general condition of the building? Is it well kept? Garbage in the hall? Tables too close together? Exits obviously blocked by chairs or tables? Doors chained? (you wouldn’t believe what I have found) Does the room feel “packed”? Amusement parks are the worst. Because they want you to feel relaxed, exits are not always clearly marked. Rooms tend the over crowd and the “security” guys don’t like snoops. They also understate dangers.

This assessment takes about two minutes and only has to be done once. Make a game of it. It’s fun once you get the hang of it.

Like I said, as I have gotten older I have become lax in checking every new venue I frequent. But I think it is about time I take a drive around the rear of my local haunts and see what is awaiting me as I bust out the back door.

Be a 1%’er.

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New Information

I had never thought about what I would do if someone started shooting in a movie theatre that I was in but now I have. I can understand people thinking/hoping it might have been part of the show at first, who would of thought someone would do this? I talked with a commercial airline pilot and he told me after 9/11 the passengers don't put up with any crap from the other passengers, they now know they could lose their lives if they don't act.  I live my life the same as when I'm driving a car, I'm constantly alert, I always expect the other driver/person to do something stupid and what would I do if he does.

Some things that came to mind with this new info,

The shooter would most likely have his back to the screen so not to be blinded

The people faces would be lit by the screen so you would have to be careful not to draw attention to yourself.

In the Colorado case you possibly could have used the smoke and peoples panic to your advantage, try to tackle or shoot him from behind, isn't body armor protection mostly for the front of a person?

Some thoughts at 3am

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"The quickest way to increase

"The quickest way to increase your voter base is to scare the crap out of stupid people." Annon.

Another snippet fron russia today. Police in Annaheim shoot.

See how the box beam behind the Fireman is cut? Burning aviation fuel will do that every time.

Sometimes things are not as they seem.

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Theatre Shooting

Every time something like this happens it is a wake up call to all of us.  I live in a sleepy suburb where most people including myself would believe we are safe.  Times and people change.  Two summers ago a priest was stabbed to death and this past spring three young men savagely beat 3 other men in the center of town.  Violence can happen anywhere, anytime, anyplace.  

My point?   I've been teaching my ten year old son to scan his environment as he walks with me about town when we run errands.  I tell him he has to be aware of who or what is around him and where someone else is walking to in relation to him.  Look, listen.  If it doesn't feel right for even a second, trust your instincts.  How much sinks in? I don't know.  But it's what I can do to keep me and mine out of harms way as we live each day.

Thanks for the information Aaron.   

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I am more concerned about

I am more concerned about being killed by some 19 year old girl texting as she speeds down the road. I woud guess more people are killed this way, than by mass shootings. It's just not as sensational. Keep aware of the real dangers. Keep things in perspective. Be well.

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Is there ever a time to pretend to be dead?

Aaron

Your insights are always appreciated.  I compare this event to the Norway shooting of last year-in that situation the shooter was completely predator and intent on killing everyone he could, methodically and systematically.  Pretending to be dead would not work in that situation, sadly for those kids who were murdered.

In this situation, a dark room with a large crowd, I probably would like to think I would have flattened myself out on the ground and hoped to be assumed dead. However, that is a risky and probably foolish approach as hiding under the seats means being incapable of flight if the opportunity to escape presents itself.

Since you asked for responses that is mine, certainly not proactive and who knows what I really would have done. I understand this is not a courageous response and does not protect others.  Thank you

D

edit

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Wow, quite an array of

Wow, quite an array of responses.
I'm very pleasantly surprised to see so many well thought through replies; the entire idea of this topic, for clarification, is not to terrify people into arming themselves - it is to get people to think about how to manage a Type I emergency, whatever their level of competency. If all you're armed with is a cell phone and CPR card, you can still do something.

So, starting with the opposition:

Quote:
Aaron Moyer wrote: [snip]

1. Yes, I and the rest of the country easily tick every one of those boxes. It doesn't take away the fact that an audience of movie-goers aren't planning for a siege in their itinerary, which is exactly why they're an easy target for crazed gunmen.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

Life is about mitigating risk.[snip]

2. If you've chosen to write such an article and put it out there, expect people to have enough of a point of view to discriedit it as a choice.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

If you're interested in trying to poke holes [snip]

3. Even if you have approached friends at SOF (Soldiers of Fortune) as well as civilians before posting it, I neither find it cogent or practical to place a knee-jerk reaction to a multiple shooting front and centre when one person is shot/killed in Detroit - as Tycer wrote - almost every day with hardly any news about it in the media. If you ask me, there isn't much most would do in a situation like this than cup their hands about their heads and curl up in a ball even with training.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

Arundhati, if you're not interested in the discussion [snip]

4. I'm very interested in the discussion. It would depend on a point of view whether your own post were percieved as both erroneous and presumptious errata, whether indeed you dictate percieved prudence to your surroundings. The US is still a nice place to live 99.99% of the time. It would be better if we never had to read such stories as Doug commented on, where fathers shoot sons in the dark in half wakefulness because their perceptions are clouded by fear with a gun under their pillow.

Arundhati

I've numbered your responses for ease of address.
1. If you're cognizent of being an easy target, why then, exactly, is it impractical to think of methods of extrication during the seige that we absolutely know can and will happen?

Those are all different hyperlinks. Please notice that in each case, the situation is called a massacre. This might be worth considering.

2. I'm not certain what you're 'discrediting as a choice". You're discounting a preemptive consideration of an established problem as:
- An irrational fear
- A senseless waste of time
- A call to arms

...When it's none of the above. If you want to discredit the notion that thinking about troubling situations before they happen is pointless, well, the burden of proof shifts onto you - this instance (and all the others linked above) show emphatically that a lack of planning, at best, does literally nothing to help you. So, if we're getting a 1-2% edge on our survivability, this is 1-2% better than your suggestion.

3. We can also include the rampage that just occured in Alabama - and if you're starting to get nervous about "assault rifles", we can talk about an equally challenging problem, that utilized primitive weaponry and tactics:  Charles Whitman.

Again, I'm not thinking the "cup your hands over your face and panic" approach is doing us much good.
Lastly, SOF = Special Operations Forces - not the magazine. I'm trying to vet the information through people who literally do this stuff for a living, to make absolutely sure that it's sensible.

4. This is not a discussion for a "black swan" situation. It's a discussion that we can use as a parable for any Type I emergency - having keen perception, situational awareness and a bit of skill is never going to be a detriment to you, so I'm not even sure what it is you're arguing against.

So, it's not "most" I'm worried about. They're welcome to curl into a ball. It'll give those who choose to prepare a clear line of sight.

HungryGhost,

Quote:
I am more concerned about being killed by some 19 year old girl texting as she speeds down the road. I woud guess more people are killed this way, than by mass shootings. It's just not as sensational. Keep aware of the real dangers. Keep things in perspective. Be well.

I completely agree. Driving is the most danger most of us will be in with any regularity, so if we look at mitigating risk in general, the same things can be applied to both situations! This is the approach I try and get people to look at - consistency. Train your mind to observe, orient, decide and act. I've responded to a dozen car wrecks and rendered First Aid when I could have just sat it out. Maybe it didn't save lives, but it was good practice and didn't hurt anything.

Sensationalism not withstanding, this scenario is ideal for a thought exercise, because it forces us to brush elbows with a truly "no-win" situation. If you were stuck in that theater, you wouldn't be thinking about how to "win", you'd be thinking of how to lose the least. 

That's all I want people to consider - that even when it's a net loss, we can mitigate that substantially by not being a part of the problem.

Denise
Playing dead would not be a good option.

First and foremost, in this instance, you'd be trampled.
Second, the ruse probably won't work - not to say with certainty, because it has worked before.
Just don't confuse it for a plan. 

RNCarl,

I had to edit this to say thanks for you post - I really enjoyed reading it.
All the comments here have been very interesting, but you've brought up the rarity of people who actually give consideration to these events. That's a pretty significant element. Thanks for your comments.

Cheers,

Aaron

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"it's as close to a "no-win" as possible"

Totally agree Aaron.  Good post.

I try to visualize myself in that situation and a lot depends on where you are in the theater relative to the shooter, the light reflecting off the screen and the exits.  I consider myself about an average handgun handler, but have difficulty imagining how I could get an open shot in which I would have a fair chance of hitting his vulnerable spot, his head.  The rest of him was armored.  Trying to get off a shot with 300 people panicking around you, in poor light and at a moving target would be extremely difficult and, as you mentioned, your intentions may be mistaken by others.

I would be hesitant to even pull a gun.  The best opportunity would be if you are close enough for a bull rush without getting immediately shot.  If you can put him on the ground, your odds go way up and his go way down.  Once he's down, others will probably jump in to help.  But even if they don't, you're in a position to inflict enough damage to stop him from harming anyone else.

Of course, all of this presumes I would have the presence of mind to actually do what makes sense.  Unless and until actually faced with such a threat, I don't think most of us know with any certainty what we would do.  To me, this argues strongly for tactical training to condition your responses and maintain presence of mind.

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Nail on the head

Doug,

Your thinking on this is exactly what I'm hoping to bring out - the firearm isn't the best tool in this situation. If you can get a clear shot - great - but more likely than not, you're going to be shooting through a mess of people you don't want to hurt.

A man that armored is going to have a few critical, fundemental weaknesses:
- Mobility
- Inhibitions to vision and hearing on account of his equipment
- Inability to maneuver. 

There are two possible routes I see for fighting back, assuming you're alone:
1. Follow the flow of foot traffic until you can maneuver into a blind spot, and hit him hard. Take him down and do whatever you can to control his hands and weapons until you can either get a clean shot, or the police show up.

2. Take a position behind something solid, and prep yourself for a shot if you get one. 
There is cover in theaters, but not much.

Personally, in a crowded space like that, a guy using a rifle is going to be at a disadvantage if you can get a hold of him. Negligent/unintentional discharges might occur, and that would be my main concern. If you could steal the iniative back, use the same principles against him - speed, simplicity and violence of action. Might be the only way to save lives.

Cheers,

Aaron

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Question about armor....

Aaron, I assume even with body armor getting hit with a 9mm, 45, or 357 is going to cause a pretty good punch that would at least surprise/shock an inexperienced individual long enough to tackle them in close quarters.  I don't know enough about how well armor works but I'm assuming disapating the kinetic energy from a bullet is not a trivial impact.

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Body armor

From what I hear from people who have been shot by handguns and been saved by soft body armor, it feels like wearing a Tshirt and being hit by a major league fastball.  Ouch!  But that might be enough to discourage or disorient an inexperienced mass murderer long enough to follow up with more shots or "kinetic activities" of some other kind.  

On the other hand, police officers shot wearing soft body armor routinely continue fighting through the pain, only really coming to "appreciate" the full effect in the moments after the incident is over.  And, those drugged up '99 Hollywood bank robbers wearing soft body armor were hit with multiple rounds and kept fighting until dead.

I suspect the "Batman Shooter" would've wet his pants and run away after one hit, but we can't be sure.  Worth considering as a plus for the good guys.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg

The possibility of friendly fire between two or more armed good guys in the crowd has to be kept in mind as a serious downside potential.  However, for two reasons I wouldn't hesitate to draw and fire because of it.  First, in spite of the millions of new concealed carry permit holders across the country, this has never happened so far.  That is, I am unaware of any situation in the US in which two armed civilians (or off-duty military or cops) have ever engaged a deadly threat at the same time while unaware the other one was doing the same.  We'd have to start seeing more and more instances of armed civilians defending themselves and others, before we could expect to see an occasional instance of two armed civilians in a crowd doing the same at the same time. Sadly, most civilian concealed carry permit holders eventually quit carrying altogether after getting their permits, or only carry occasionally when they PERCEIVE a greater threat (which I would assume before this week would NOT include in a movie theater!).  Second, it takes a lot of experience, training and ice water in the veins not to go into tunnel vision in one's first and maybe second self-defense shooting incident.  If I engaged a murderer in a crowd with gunfire, I doubt a second self-defense shooter would even be aware of my presence or hear my shots (that's auditory exclusion) UNTIL the bad guy was neutralized.  I could at least deploy my badge hanging from a neck chain to reduce my chances of being a target of friendly fire, but the greatest danger of friendly fire would be after the bad guy was down either way.  And that includes friendly fire from arriving police (most of whom will themselves be flooded with adrenaline and experiencing their own tunnel vision). And not a few of them will have their fingers on their triggers as they enter the scene, in violation of all training.  There might be another self-defense shooter to worry about, but there will DEFINITELY be twitchy arriving police to be much more concerned about.  You should have as good a strategy for dealing with arriving police as you would for the mass murderer himself.

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Fish in a barrel

I suspect the public neurosis from this massacre will continue to have a multitude of repurcussions for many weeks. A number of stupid accidental deaths will be given near perpetual repeat by our beloved media having a field day bringing every minute fracas a headline status while profiting heavily by it.

I simply don't agree that this massacre has any bearing on survival in this situation other than by sheer luck.

You can't constantly keep viewing thirty stories up in the possibility that a sniper on a rooftop is going to shoot you. In a near closed confined seat in an orditorium with a couple of hundred people fighting ferociously for their lives to get out, and with three possible exits to cover, this is a turkey shoot, or firing at fish in a barrel for a gunman with an issue.

This isn't a rational senario, but to be sure, those with psychological baggage from the experience will mostly have an excuse to do what the public have been trained to do. That'll be to shout out the tired old banner bloated second amendment, join the NRA, and add a couple more thousand deaths to a yearly figure that averages thirty times that of Canada.

By all means go get the training, but first get a pass to see the results before and after surgery.

If you want a country that hasn't had half a million pointless indirect deaths caused by the banking industry in these past five years at least, and you want a country that'll be safer than it is today, help put the real criminals down that reduce the chance of a productive life from an education that can be afforded, and put a stop to the outsourcing of our country's industry that continues to marginalize and create the poor, and you'll surely never find a need to pull a gun out of a holster again.

Blurring the truthful emphasis of cause and affect gives blame to the wrong culprit, even if I cannot condone what the gunman did.

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Armor

Armor is going to stop the penetrative aspects of the projectile, but as THC said, people who've taken lead in still equate it to being struck by a ball bat. 

If you're pumped on adrenaline, you might not notice, but that's generally not the condition of the aggressor. The surprise would likely have an effect.

Cheers,

Aaron

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Arundhati Roy wrote: I

Arundhati Roy wrote:

I suspect the public neurosis from this massacre will continue to have a multitude of repurcussions for many weeks. A number of stupid accidental deaths will be given near perpetual repeat by our beloved media having a field day bringing every minute fracas a headline status while profiting heavily by it.

I simply don't agree that this massacre has any bearing on survival in this situation other than by sheer luck.

You can't constantly keep viewing thirty stories up in the possibility that a sniper on a rooftop is going to shoot you. In a near closed confined seat in an orditorium with a couple of hundred people fighting ferociously for their lives to get out, and with three possible exits to cover, this is a turkey shoot, or firing at fish in a barrel for a gunman with an issue.

This isn't a rational senario, but to be sure, those with psychological baggage from the experience will mostly have an excuse to do what the public have been trained to do. That'll be to shout out the tired old banner bloated second amendment, join the NRA, and add a couple more thousand deaths to a yearly figure that averages thirty times that of Canada.

By all means go get the training, but first get a pass to see the results before and after surgery.

If you want a country that hasn't had half a million pointless indirect deaths caused by the banking industry in these past five years at least, and you want a country that'll be safer than it is today, help put the real criminals down that reduce the chance of a productive life from an education that can be afforded, and put a stop to the outsourcing of our country's industry that continues to marginalize and create the poor, and you'll surely never find a need to pull a gun out of a holster again.

Blurring the truthful emphasis of cause and affect gives blame to the wrong culprit, even if I cannot condone what the gunman did.

Well,

I do not think what Aaron was trying to communicate in his post was; that we should all run out, join the NRA, have the second amendment tattooed across our chest and wear camo (pattern and color coordinated of course) to the Sunday worship service to watch the Charlton Heston version of the Ten Commandments - then head down to the local gun range to take the latest offerings of "combat tactical training" and lastly subscribe to Soldier of Fortune magazine. (Were you Aaron?) blush

What I took from the post was that here was a member of this community that has a certain level of tactical training that I do not possess. He simply asked, "What would you do if you found yourself in the situation?" He then proceeded to outline the situation using his tactical training. He was sharing his base of knowledge with us as to possible responses.

The very first thought that came to my mind was, "Are you asking what I would have done AFTER I shat myself?" If so, the answer would have been simply. "Stay alive."

I couldn't agree with you more that the points that you made about where we could or should focus our efforts to reclaim our country from the true criminals that have stolen our liberties and wealth.

I doubt however, any of that is what motivated the shooter. Aaron's treatise was not about the "why" it happened, it was about "what to do" when it happens.

Arundhati, what would you do if you found yourself in that situation?

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Tell yourself - This is real!

This shooter incident, the Anaheim Police "bean bag" shootings, or other _________ (insert your favorite life threatening event here) All have a common theme. The early victims (if they survive) all say that they couldn't believe it was happening. They couldn't believe it was real.

Perhaps a first lesson is to learn to tell yourself, "This situation IS what my eyes, ears, gut are telling me that it is."

here is a post that poet made on the DD on 7/22/12:

Near-Riot Follows Anaheim Officer-Involved Shooting

Saturday afternoon, July 21, 2012, Anaheim, California... Following an officer-involved shooting that left one person dead, an angry crowd gathers. Police fire bean bag rounds and unleash dogs on a crowd that includes women and children. Watch the video footage.

Near-Riot Follows Anaheim Officer-Involved Shooting (July 21, 2012)
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/7530254-near-riot-follows-anaheim-officer-involved-shooting/

If you see an angry crowd, get the hell out. Especially if you have children, GET OUT. You don't know what will happen and you can't trust that there will be safety in a volatile situation like that - from the crowd or from the police.

Poet

Watch the video. Watch the victim's eyes and expressions when they are being drawn down on by.... "peace officers" It does not matter what I think or you think about the "right" or "wrong" -ness of the event. Look at the disbelief in their faces as to what is happening to them.

When the "fight or flight" response kicks in... Get OUT! This my friends, is a sabre-tooth tiger attack!

C.

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slightly off topic

This may be a little off topic, but a couple thoughts came to mind reading this.

A while ago I had a debate with a guy at work who said that it was ridiculous to CCW.  When asked why he has fire insurance since it is not likely that his house will burn, I looked up some statistics and by a small margin, the number of people subject to violent crime in 2010 was more than the number of house fires.

Last year while taking a class with Todd Green he told us that given the typical physical condition of most of the people taking his classes they would do more to improve their chances of personal survival by going to a gym rather than to a pistol class.

I recently read that in the gun free zone of Chicago, the number of murders this year is larger than the number of US combat deaths in Afganistan.  I guess the bad guys did not read the no guns allowed policy (same for the guy in the theater).

Someone else (I forget who) told me that we do not train because of the frequency or likelihood of needing to defend one's self, but because of the size of the consequences in the unlikely event that we have to.

Oh well, thanks for putting up with this.  I was out in the sun all day :-)

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PT/Arundhati Support

Joe,

Couldn't agree more with the notion of physical health. I see an awful lot of training junkies who are in very marginal health. Not just phyiscal, either. It takes a toll on you trying to constantly outpace martial threats. Mental health vacations and other hobbies enrich your life. Being hyper focused on any one things is poor. 

I'd say if you can not sprint 400 meters, do at least 25 pushups, 5 pullups and jog a continuous mile, you should have no priority before hitting those standards. They're fairly modest, and a good place to start. 

Also, deaths in Afghanistan are insanely high if you're counting Afghan-Afghan violence. Most of them know better than to "fight" Americans.

Carl,

Quote:
I do not think what Aaron was trying to communicate in his post was; that we should all run out, join the NRA, have the second amendment tattooed across our chest and wear camo (pattern and color coordinated of course) to the Sunday worship service to watch the Charlton Heston version of the Ten Commandments - then head down to the local gun range to take the latest offerings of "combat tactical training" and lastly subscribe to Soldier of Fortune magazine. (Were you Aaron?) blush

Not just no... heck no. =D
I don't even think most of the military needs camouflage. I'm not an NRA member, and I really don't even like guns all that much. If I didn't feel it was necessary to defend my friends, family and community, I'd probably just own an M1A to hunt with, and an old 1911.

Arundhati,

There's a few "thumbs up" on Arundhati's comments, and not a lot of people throwing in their comments. It seems prudent to actually speak up, and support a person in the minority opinion. I'm curious as to why the comments are being "liked", and I don't mean that in a rude way. They offer very little to the topic, so I may well be missing something.

Cheers,

Aaron

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Wendy S. Delmater
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oh for crying out loud

Re: the cut box beam benind the NYC firefighter after 9/11. I was in NYC construction and had THREE safety manager friends working at Ground Zero - a d various buddies in all the related construction trades. A call went out to people with cutting torches to get the steel out of the rubble. Yes, the cut beam in the photo was not done by aviation fuel but for crying out loud, whether you're a 9/11 truther or not that is NOT proof of a coverup or aything like it. It was done by a cutting torch after the disaster.

Just sayin. I was there in NY and part of the industry.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled shooting discussion.

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Poet
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Stories Of Heroism During Aurora Theater Shooting

Even if you are not armed or well-prepared, there are things you can to protect your loved ones. I am sure more such stories will emerge.

Stories Of Heroism During Aurora Theater Shooting Begin To Emerge (July 20, 2012)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/stories-of-heroism-during_n_1690688.html

3 Boyfriends Die Shielding Girlfriends During Aurora Massacre (July 23, 2012)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/aurora-shooting-boyfriends-died-protecting-girlfriends_n_1695290.html

Not everyone was panicking, even if they weren't armed.

Poet

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Senior citizen shoots at Florida internet cafe robbers

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Re: earlier article on "accidental" shooting-OT

This is an update article on the status of the investigation into the police officer father shooting his son (I believe he was also a police officer).

http://www.herkimertelegram.com/topstories/x1073621477/Criminal-charges-not-yet-ruled-out-in-Old-Forge-shooting

There aren't many specifics released yet, but the possibilities include alcohol and whether the shooter's allegation that he thought he was shooting an intruder was "reasonable".

Quote:
A preliminary investigation indicates Matthew Leach was shot once near the doorway immediately after entering the room, and that his father might have been sleeping before he was unexpectedly woken up, Carpenter said.

It remains unclear, however, whether Michael Leach attempted to say anything to his son before firing his police department-issued .45-caliber Glock handgun, Carpenter said.

It also is not yet known whether either Michael or Matthew Leach had been drinking alcohol prior to the shooting, and whether that was a factor in what happened.

Carpenter said he doesn’t consider this an “accidental” shooting due to the facts of what happened, and that this case is more complicated than simply saying someone is justified in shooting a person they believe to be an intruder.

“Anytime there’s a deadly use of force, there’s a subjective analysis as to what the shooter believed at the time, and then there’s an objective analysis as to whether that belief was reasonable considering all the surrounding circumstances,” Carpenter said.

There are other issues that concern me.  Glocks have only a trigger safety to prevent accidental discharges.  They do not inhibit a person from firing the gun.  The other is what is the appropriate manner of stowing a gun before going to sleep?  

I took a handgun safety course from a veteran Marshall's Service officer.  He made the point that police officers do some of the stupidest things wrt guns and regaled us with a fair number of incidents illustrating that point.  He also discussed what to do with a gun that you have for home or self defense when you are not actually carrying it.  He noted that a strict interpretation of safety would require locking an unloaded gun away with a trigger lock so that it is not easily accessible.  OTOH, he acknowledged that would defeat the purpose of home or self defense.  His final conclusion was that each individual needs to make such decisions based on their individual circumstances.

It does seem to me that keeping a loaded gun under your pillow or within easy reach when you're sleeping, particularly a gun that has no safety interfering with firing at will, is asking for trouble.  After thinking it through for quite a while, I have decided how I handle that issue and I think everyone should make these decisions very carefully.

Doug

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Arundhati Roy wrote: RNcarl

Arundhati Roy wrote:

RNcarl wrote:

Arundhati, what would you do if you found yourself in that situation?

RNcarl,

well all of this doesn't bode well.

Two smoke canisters are doing their job of obscuring vision, and there's a fair amount of screaming to jangle the senses. About your feet are people crawling - along with the wounded and dead.

If I had a gun and I had it drawn, could another assume I was the gunman and shoot me?

What odds are there than the gut reaction of fight or flight, bravery or stupidity?

I have a fair clue what most would do, and that is to pile in at every gap that includes stampeding over every obstacle including people, and run like hell.

What would you do?

Well,

What I would do? AFTER the high likelihood that I would have soiled my drawers, (at least a squirt, old prostate 'ya know) I would have hidden as best as possible and exited perhaps using the same exit the shooter entered from once he was past the point where I was hiding. At this point it is easy to say what one might have done.

But, now is the time to at least think about actions before entering the situation. Will I loose any sleep over it? Nope.

I loose more sleep thinking of how I have let my physical endurance become that of a man twice my age. I have no physical impairment other than the lack of will to do it.

When I was thirty, I could run 1 1/2 miles in 10-11 minutes, do 100 sit-ups, carry a water soaked roll of 2 1/2" fire hose up three flights of stairs and return to the ground floor in under 90 seconds, (dressed in full firefighting gear) then carry (or drag) a 200lb. dummy 50 yards. At that point I had to recite a specific order over a two-way radio that it could be understood clearly by the person at the other end. That ended my overall time which I can't remember what the limit was, but I passed the course each year. It was considered the BASE physical fitness to stay employed.

Today, I get winded thinking about it.

So, each time we have a discussion of what to do about the changes coming to our world, physical fitness always tops the list.

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Sidetrack: Officer Almost Shoots Son

Years ago, in college, a former classmate (whose father was a cop) related an eerily similar personal story that could have gone very wrong...

As a teenager, he had stayed out past curfew one night and come home to find the door was locked and he didn't have a key. He didn't want to wake his parents up, so he tried sneaking back into the house through a window. (And of course it had to be his parents' bedroom window.) As he was tiptoeing through his parents' bedroom, he heard a sudden *click*.

His father, who normally kept a loaded gun in the nightstand, was pointing it at him.

This young man immediately started saying, "Dad! Dad! It's me!"

His groggy father took a few seconds to come to his senses, realized it was his son in front of him, and immediately started crying.

That was a lesson I learned by listening. Back to the movie...

Poet

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Reactive weaponry

Doug,

Glocks, revolvers, and some of the other subcompacts don't have external safeties... 
But I don't think this point should be contentious. If the man had shot his son (Terribly tragic) with a revolver, no one would think anything of it, because I think Sirhan Sirhan was the last person to shoot someone with a revolver. They just don't make news like semi-automatic, high capacity Glocks do.

That said, Glocks, S&W's M&P line and a few others (Steyr's MA series, and IIRC, the Walther P99) have trigger safeties as well. If one is following the proper protocols (Keeping their finger off the trigger until they're ready to shoot, being the chief), then this kind of thing wouldn't happen. 

If you keep a weapon nearby, it should be consistent. Not in a different spot every night, not locked, loaded or chambered one day, and not the next - but consistent. Especially under the disorientation of sleep, you don't need to be questioning (loudly - as loading and unlocking can give a pretty strong auditory signature) what status is your weapon in.

Taking slack out of the trigger before you've identified that there is a 100% threat is a terrible idea. It should only be practiced with follow up shots. This sound principle was the base reason for the DA/SA craze that gave our military the Beretta M9 and it's ungodly long trigger pull. 

I had a conversation recently about the use of weapons lights with weapons - this is a great example of why I carry a light seperately. I'll do a quick write up on this soon,  but needless to say, our society doesn't give much credit to the permanance of action. 

Cheers,

Aaron

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A. M.
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Poet/False Flags

You are bringing up some really good points:
One thing I've never understood is why parents who have children out would default to grabbing a weapon when they hear someone come in late at night. Wow. Common sense has GOT to be common, folks!

Folks, I know the community here is a cut above, but think this through too - don't put yourself in an emergency that's totally preventable by being careless...

Second, 
Awesome find on some of the heroics at the theater. It's a great example of a tradgedy where less was lost because of their actions...

Cheers,

Aaron

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theater shooter and response to Arundhati

Admittedly, I haven't read all of the back and forth between Aaron and Arundhati however I have read enough to come out of my CM hybernation and add a little sotry that may help Arundhati better understand what Aaron and others are trying to explain.  Here is goes....

I emtered a post on the old CM site some time ago about my personal home invasion experience a couple of years ago.  I won't go into too many details atp but I will touch on a few things that I believe Arundhati needs to hear.

I, like the theater victims, was taken by surprise (5 am sunday morning knock at my lower level front door)

I, like the theater victims, operated in the first few seconds under my own asumptions (It must be a neighbor who needs my help as has happened in the past)

I, like the theater victims, had felt I was in an innocent and save place prior to the events unfolding (my home)

I, like many of the theater victims, could not apply reason fast enough for the events unfolding (before I looked through the peep hole the intruder was walking through my unlocked back yard sliding door)

I, like many of the theater victims, questioned my reality (I said to the intruder "what are you doing?")

I, like many of the theater victims, panicked and ran (leaving my daughter alone upstairs as I ran to get help)

Here's the important part.  Are you listening Arundhati?

I ran further then the closest house and to my next closest neighbor because I instinctively knew he would answer his door armed....and he did.  I have been his neighbor for 8 yrs prior and knew little about his life and certainly nothing that would have led me to believe that he had firearms.  I never was any firearms on or around him, we'd never discussed anything remotely close to firearms, hunting, nothing, nadda and yet, I instinctively knew.  To this day I don't know how I knew that at the time but I don't care.

He answered his door with a pistol tucked into the back of his jeans.  

He approached our front door, pistol drawn, and when the intruder would not "get down" my neighbor turned on his tactical light and got the drugged up intruders attention.  The intruder got down and put his hands behind his head, then............some minutes later................the police arrived.

The intruder explained to us that he mistook our home for the neighbors house which he was staying at and it was all an innocent mistake.  No threat right?  Not so fast. We all went back to our lives as best we could but something always made me question the presumed innocense of the intruder........why didn't he answer me when I ask "what are you doing?" and why did he have his hood up and why was he walking toward me not saying anything?.........less the six month later the intruder and his guy friend were arrested and charged with murder after they went camping with a young female and her remains were found 7 days later, at the camp site.

within hours after our home invasion I felt a deep sense of gratitude toward our neighbor for his obvious investment in preparedness and his willingness to put his life on the line for me and my daughter.  As a result, I decided that from that day on I would work dilligently to become "That Neighbor", "That citizen", "That Friend", "THAT PERSON" that my neighbor, my friend, my fellow citizen, and people like you Arundhati, can go to because I am invested in preparedness, I am aware, I am trained, I am willing to be there for you, JUST LIKE MY NEIGHBOR.

Take a first aid course, CPR at least, maybe even self defense, maybe even firearms training because it's the people who do those things who end of saving our sorry arsses all while the unprepared spent just as much time narrating the unnecessary story.

I hope you take this with the well intentions it launches from.

RG

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thc0655
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Gun sales in Colorado

Looks like gun sales are way up in Colorado after the recent unpleasantness.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/colorado-gun-sales-up-41_072012

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Strong sentiment

RG - one of the best written comments I've seen here. 
TYVM...

Aaron

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Arundhati Roy wrote: RNcarl

Arundhati Roy wrote:

RNcarl wrote:

Arundhati Roy wrote:

RNcarl wrote:

Arundhati, what would you do if you found yourself in that situation?

RNcarl,

well all of this doesn't bode well.

Two smoke canisters are doing their job of obscuring vision, and there's a fair amount of screaming to jangle the senses. About your feet are people crawling - along with the wounded and dead.

If I had a gun and I had it drawn, could another assume I was the gunman and shoot me?

What odds are there than the gut reaction of fight or flight, bravery or stupidity?

I have a fair clue what most would do, and that is to pile in at every gap that includes stampeding over every obstacle including people, and run like hell.

What would you do?

Well,

What I would do? AFTER the high likelihood that I would have soiled my drawers, (at least a squirt, old prostate 'ya know) I would have hidden as best as possible and exited perhaps using the same exit the shooter entered from once he was past the point where I was hiding. At this point it is easy to say what one might have done.

But, now is the time to at least think about actions before entering the situation. Will I loose any sleep over it? Nope.

I loose more sleep thinking of how I have let my physical endurance become that of a man twice my age. I have no physical impairment other than the lack of will to do it.

When I was thirty, I could run 1 1/2 miles in 10-11 minutes, do 100 sit-ups, carry a water soaked roll of 2 1/2" fire hose up three flights of stairs and return to the ground floor in under 90 seconds, (dressed in full firefighting gear) then carry (or drag) a 200lb. dummy 50 yards. At that point I had to recite a specific order over a two-way radio that it could be understood clearly by the person at the other end. That ended my overall time which I can't remember what the limit was, but I passed the course each year. It was considered the BASE physical fitness to stay employed.

Today, I get winded thinking about it.

So, each time we have a discussion of what to do about the changes coming to our world, physical fitness always tops the list.

RNcarl,

Totally agree with physical fitness. I'm 52 and have/still kick-box to a maintained standard these past 14 years. My round-house kick is quoted as quite deadly, and for a woman of 5' 7" I've put many a bulky fit male in his place on the mat of half my age with both experience and continued training.

Every day for the passed 22 years I've applied and embraced a personal development of mindfulness in my practice of meditation, yoga and breathing, which helps to knock out much of the white noise that society can invade you with without purposeful concentration.

I work out 3 times a week. On top of this I swim twice a week, applying 50 length laps at a pace of my choosing.

I don't drink, have never smoked, and because of this I can still sprint a mile flat out without getting shaken.

I have firm defined abs' without being ripped, am most definately feminine and love my DH.

I am mindful, being fully conscious and aware of my surroundings. I believe this is why I've never been involved in a car accident, broke a bone or gained a single suture.

I believe I am confident, calm; casual in my daily life because I am not a victim. Therefore I am not treated as such.

Good,

Then you can drag my sorry butt to the door. cool

The question remains... could I count on you to drag my sorry butt to the door.

C.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
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Question

Arundhati Roy wrote:
I am mindful, being fully conscious and aware of my surroundings. I believe this is why I've never been involved in a car accident, broke a bone or gained a single suture.

I believe I am confident, calm; casual in my daily life because I am not a victim. Therefore I am not treated as such.

*facepalm*
Then exactly what about this topic did you find contentious? 
All that has been advocated is:
- An acceptable level of situational awareness
- A little forethought with regards to potentially dangerous situations
- Some physical fitness
- A dose of emotional preparedness

I'm still trying to figure it out so I can fine tune how I present this kind of information.
Cheers,

Aaron

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A. M.
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Judgment

Your judgment is misguided. This isn't an article about survival. 
It's an article about an event, and planning.
Here's my judgment - please read before you make judgments.
 

Thanks,

Aaron

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Organic Raw Veggies
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Arundhati Roy

Does Aaron Moyer even know who Arundhati Roy is? I think Aaron should be thankful that she responded to his post. Maybe he will read a book or two of hers. Arundhati Roy gives a great deal of credibility to this post and to this website AND to the subject being discussed.

I have to read some of Arundhati's sentences 5 times, there actually is a lot of meaning in them. This is why her responses are liked.

I like all her responses.

Staying in your seat may be the best choice if you are away from the shooter. After people panic, hide, in place. Anyone close to the guy should tackle him, especially if you were already shot. I would not be the person who stayed on the 105th floor of the WTC, when the word all clear, stay put. I would already be past floor 70. I would have made it out. Burning building, time to go home, fast.

I can work lifting 50 boxes, 12 hrs per day 4 days in a row, not get tired...but getting to the gym is hard. I guess i,ll pump up the tires on the old bicycle. Health is wealth. Learning to eat lighter can help, raw veggies. Yoga always good. Think, then act. AAA, Awareness, alternatives, action. HALT Hungry, angry, lonely, tired won't help but most people reside there all day.

Thank You Arundhati Roy for all you do.

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Jim H
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Question for Organic non-GMO Vegan Raw low carbon footprint...

Why am I to believe that the poster with the handle Arundhati Roy is actually Arundhati Roy?  

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
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Vegan Incidentally, Quote:St

Vegan

Incidentally,

Quote:
Staying in your seat may be the best choice if you are away from the shooter. After people panic, hide, in place. Anyone close to the guy should tackle him, especially if you were already shot. I would not be the person who stayed on the 105th floor of the WTC, when the word all clear, stay put. I would already be past floor 70. I would have made it out. Burning building, time to go home, fast.

If Arundhati's advice was to be followed, you wouldn't even come to this conclusion, as consideration of that possibility is futile. It would simply be luck, if you got out or not.

I apologize in advance, but I do not accept the 'argument from authortiy". This makes them a de facto authority on any subject they choose to speak on? 

Quote:
I have to read some of Arundhati's sentences 5 times, there actually is a lot of meaning in them. This is why her responses are liked.

Maybe she can write a book about how to survive by lucky breaks, in that case.
It may be startlingly profound. My assessments require a good deal of actual work, and actually provide actionable steps which an average person can use. Not existential philosophy.

Arundhati

I'm not trying to be rude, but your comments are gradually becoming inconsistent with all of your previous entries into this discussion:

Quote:
Sure you could count on me.

It wouldn't be the first time I applied a field dressing either.smiley

So then, would it simply be luck that you helped someone?
Are you carrying around field dressings? 

I hate to ask it of you, given that you're clearly someone of great importance... 
I write articles for a website that I enjoy, because I can offer something to folks I care about.

So please - could you try and 

Quote:
This isn't a rational senario, but to be sure, those with psychological baggage from the experience will mostly have an excuse to do what the public have been trained to do. That'll be to shout out the tired old banner bloated second amendment, join the NRA, and add a couple more thousand deaths to a yearly figure that averages thirty times that of Canada.

By all means go get the training, but first get a pass to see the results before and after surgery.

Quote:
Have we to carry loaded AK47's, wear a flack jacket and helmet along with carrying our popcorn and coke to our seats at a Batman movie while searching out a possible exit strategy?

Are we to check for bombs under our cars with a mirror on a stick before getting in and turning the key each morning?

The ground under my feet is as near as a certainty its a solid for the better part of my day without changing the odds that tommorrow will be any more mundane than it was today for most if not all of the other 300+ million Americans.

Seems to me in this state of affairs we're gonna end up as paranoid as the gunman was.

Quote:
I'm very interested in the discussion. It would depend on a point of view whether your own post were percieved as both erroneous and presumptious errata, whether indeed you dictate percieved prudence to your surroundings.

and... of course...

Quote:
I work out 3 times a week. On top of this I swim twice a week, applying 50 length laps at a pace of my choosing.

I don't drink, have never smoked, and because of this I can still sprint a mile flat out without getting shaken.

I have firm defined abs' without being ripped, am most definately feminine and love my DH.

Save your condescention?
This is very frusterating for me, as you've brought literally nothing in the way of suggestions for a more practical approach. If you'd care to do that, I'm all ears. If you're here to make it known that you're tired of people talking about these situations, your first post was sufficient, and the rest have brought little in the way of dialog that didn't directly relate to how neat you are.
Cheers,

Aaron

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ao
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programmed passivity and BS

OK.  I know I'm going to get my head handed to me saying this but there's something about this theater shooting that has bothered me since day one.  Isn't it strange that not one person out of hundreds in a crowded movie theater decided to charge the shooter ... not one.  Granted, there is the initial confusion, shock, and disbelief.  But after a number of shots ring out and the bodies are falling, I'm amazed that every single person fell into flight or freeze mode and not a single one shifted into fight mode.  That darkness and smoke didn't just work in the shooter's favor nor did the confusion.  If he was wearing a gas mask, his visual awareness was hampered even more. That body armor provided protection but it also hampered mobility and it certainly didn't prevent him from being taken down.  That gun could only point in one direction and yet the shooter had 360 deg. vulnerability.  If he was handling a rifle or shotgun, it extended beyond his body providing additional handholds and leverage for disarming.  Isn't it interesting that we have a culture with a criminal element that is becoming increasingly violent but the law-abiding citizen has been passified to such an extent that they seem incapable of using aggression where it is justified and righteous.  Isn't it also interesting in so many cases where someone has acted and acted decisively and effectively, it's been an older individual who demonstrated intrepidity that belied their advanced years.

Besides various media examples of the aforementioned, in our own area, a drug enforcement team mistakenly charged through the front door of a residence.  Unfortunately, they had the wrong residence.  Nevertheless, the elderly male homeowner (worried about protecting his bride) popped to his feet in an instant and wrestled with the shotgun of the lead law enforcement officer making the entry ... a shotgun which, by the way, was pointed directly at the innocent victim.  That hapless old man actually broke the trigger finger of the officer in the scuffle and was effectively disarming him before the rest of the brave cops jumped on top of him and roughed him up pretty badly.  Without getting into details, there've been two other discussions that I've gotten involved in on CM recently which show other indications of the sheepification that is infesting our culture.  This shooting indicates problems in our society that extend beyond this deranged shooter and have implications not only for our personal safety but for the safety of our way of life and our nation.

With regards to the theater shooting, my personal experience is that the more people at an event and the later at night it occurs, the more risky it is.  I avoid such situations if at all possible.  In addition, with regards to those individuals who brought their infants or young children to this type of movie at this type of night, they are a reflection of other serious problems in our society.  The biggest peak phenomena we are facing is not Peak Oil.  It's Peak Intelligence and Peak Wisdom.  Stupidity and foolishness are running rampant and spreading like wildfire.  Again, no one ever accused sheep of being smart and wise. 

Furthermore, while I make reasonable preparations, take reasonable precautions, and assume reasonable risks, I refuse to live my life in fear.  I can be taken out at any time, any place, by anyone with the determination and wherewithal.  If that happens, so be it.  I can't be looking up at the clock tower at University of Texas waiting for Charles Whitman to put a bullet in my brain any second.  That's no way to live.  There are just too many scenarios where one is vulnerable and I'm all too aware of what low grade sub-clinical PTSD can do to one's psyche and life to be willing to go that way in my life.  That doesn't mean I don't see great value in physical fitness, weapons ownership, and weapons training.  It's just that the latter two have limited utilitarian value in most of our lives.  YMMV

Last of all, I call BS on Arundhati Roy's assertions regarding "her" fitness level, martial ability, and identity.  "She" doesn't write on here like she does in real life.  "Her" writing activity times don't correspond to where she supposedly lives but they do correspond to where someone else lives.  "Her" spelling errors also correspond to a formerly banned poster.  "Her" writing style is distinctly different from that in her books and distinctly male and also distinctly similar to a former (banned) poster.  And no 5'7" 52 year old female who is a non-professional is going to consistently take down bulky, fit males ... especially not with a "deadly" roundhouse kick, a technique which has never been know for being "deadly".  Methinks AR is an imposter.

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achrbry
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Let's add to the physical situation...

...elements of light and sound.

Light:

  • The primary source of illumination is the movie screen itself, which is constantly changing as the film progresses.
  • Emergency lighting of some stripe is present along the aisles, but it does not provide substantial illumination.
  • So overall, the theater is dark.
  • In addition, the assailant utilized smoke bombs, which would obscure vision even if the lights were turned on.
  • Escape A (the theater concourse) is well-lit, but typically blocked by a door.
  • Escape B (out the front exits) may or may not be well-lit depending on where it goes out to.  If directly outdoors, it is night.  Sky conditions are partly cloudy, and the moon has already set (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBKF/2012/7/20/DailyHistory....).  Artificial ambient lighting depends on exact point of exit.

Sound:

  • The primary source of sound prior to the gunman opening fire is the movie itself.  It is possible that movie-gunfire, including that from automatic or semi-automatic weaponry, will occur in the course of the film.
  • Subsequent to this will be the sound of the gunman opening fire, followed by screaming, panicking, etc.

None of this, of course, does anything at all to ameliorate the situation.

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treebeard
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We all have our roles to play

I did almost loose my wife and eldest son when he was just a few years old quite some time ago.  They were parked in front of the a big box store early in the morning. When she had just parked the car two guys approached the car from oposite directions.  The one approaching front of the car leaned toward the car causing has jacket to swing open.  My wife saw a large pistol tucked in the front of his pants. Luckily at that moment a someone came out of the store and the two guys took off.

We live in a small town in a quiet area, not the place that you would ever imagine something like that happening.  We did go to the police, but that was not a lot of good.  My wife did take a self dense course after that, and then got into karate, she loved it.  But what else are you to do after an event like that, you can't spend your time hunkered under your bed with a trunk full of amunition.

We coped with it the best we could.  But still I will never be the guy who comes to the door with a gun tucked into my jeans, that is just not my nature.  My focus is building the community, skills and infrastructure so that possibility and probability of random violence is minimized, although I'm certainly not afraid of defending myself. (hopefully being 6' 6 and over 200 lbs and in reasonably good shape is worth something, but against a crazy with a semiautomatic weapon what can you really do?)

When I was first checking out web sites some time ago that had a view towards things not going to well for homosapiens, most sites were run by survivalists.  I remembered reading an artical written by a guy who was more concerned whether a sniper could pick him off when he was picking his carrots then where it made sense put them from an agricultural point of view.  If that is where we are headed, beam me up scotty.

Everyone has their role to play.  It is great that there are those who are into guns and those who are into gardens, as much as we all may not like it, we need both.  Transcending and connecting all this which so many have touched on is the awareness which brings us all togehter. It is awareness that bings us to this site, sets us to work creating a better world, and yes hopefully keeps us personally safe and alive.

Organic Raw Veggies's picture
Organic Raw Veggies
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 24 2012
Posts: 49
No one size fits all

Some people will never have the capacity to the details of their surroundings in real time. Some of us are cursed and have to process every small detail every second. Some lead, some wait to follow. I see a drug deal on the corner, someone else sees 2 people standing on the corner, they missed the exchange. People that live in the details are always over processing details of surroundings and situations. It does help. Others can't hear the person next to them talking when the TV is on. Once on the Interstate I pass a sign, All traffic must stop. I immediately exit and take backroads (no tsa is going to search me, I wouldn't let them, I do not consent to searches, didn't want to get hauled to jail and have the wife and kids come get me at 11 pm). A UTurn in the median was next option. Most people would Lolly gag up the the road closure. Maybe it wasn't tsa, but still a Temporary road closure. I have water in my car. I would pull over and abandon the car if necessary.

I do believe there is always a way out of every situation without needing weapons, even if others have them and may use them against you. If you say and do the right things, there is a way out. I've gotten out of speeding tickets a number of times. But will the average person be able to come up with the right sentence to tell the officer in 30 seconds, probably not. Weapons do give you another option hopefully the brain still will get used. The average non-detailed person will have difficulty even if they read these posts every day. People all have their strengths. We all have that friend that can talk to anyone and become a best friend in 5 minutes.

You will be able to practice your technique, east coast earthquakes, power failures, storms, accidents. Most people miss that small opportunity when you could practice. Thinking is the best practice. At the fair do you wait behind the line of people or do you go to the open window where no one is in line, pay and walk right in. Do you wait in line behind 3 people to by popcorn or go where there is only one? What lane are you in in that traffic jam, left against the guard rail or right where you could pull off quickly. Takes all kinds.

We are programmed to distrust everyone and be greedy. Practice loving. Next time you are in a diner, look around and see that everyone has value, love everyone. The fat lady, the skinny man, the screaming baby. Recognize their value. Everyone can have complete abundance. Boycott corporations.

Tycer's picture
Tycer
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 26 2009
Posts: 553
Feeding trolls?

Organic vegan raw wrote:
Does Aaron Moyer even know who Arundhati Roy is? I think Aaron should be thankful that she responded to his post. Maybe he will read a book or two of hers.

I did not and now do.

Organic vegan raw wrote:
Arundhati Roy gives a great deal of credibility to this post and to this website AND to the subject being discussed.

Yes she would.

Organic vegan raw wrote:
I have to read some of Arundhati's sentences 5 times, there actually is a lot of meaning in them.

 I've read quite a bit of her work this evening and I agree.

I am however going to agree with others that the person using her name here is not the same person who wrote what I've read elsewhere this evening.

Captain A, I think we have rebirthed a troll.

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