Blog

Revolution coming with next meltdown

Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 11:24 AM

The title of this blog is not mine, it belongs to Paul Ferrell of CBS Marketwatch who used it in a piece penned and posted yesterday to one of the largest financial websites in the business.

I am reposting a portion of it here because I find it interesting as an indicator of social mood.  Let's face it, a growing swath of people are not comforted by the V-shaped return of the stock market but instead see a continuation of the policies and power structures that got us into this mess in the first place.

More and more people are simply fed up with the financial and economic looting that has already taken place and downright angry to see that it is continuing unabated. 

To the list of looted items tossed onto an already well-lit bonfire we can now add "the future" and "time" because the various stimulus programs and bailouts have done nothing to get us onto a sustainable path of repair. 

But seeing such things openly in print in the mainstream media reveals a profound shift in attitudes.

New bull, new bubble, new meltdown by 2012

Americans are not going to put up with the "Wall Street Conspiracy" ripping off investors and taxpayers much longer. Wall Street got rich sticking us with mountains of debt for generations to come.

Expect a major house-cleaning, a second American Revolution. We predicted the "Great Depression 2" around 2012. Well, we doubt taxpayers will passively sit one more time, like in the 1930s, in 2000, and the past few years. Next time voters will take a page from the history books about past revolutions in the American Colonies, France and Russia. A perfect storm will erupt in a massive global credit meltdown, bringing down Wall Street and the clandestine $670 trillion shadow central banking system. And the collateral damage will be massive and widespread, in areas such as these:

  • Lobbyists' power is lethal to our values. Special interests are running and destroying American democracy, will self-destruct.
  • Derivatives: Cap 'n trade will crash worse than subprime. The Goldman Conspiracy's spending millions lobbying for trillion-dollar derivatives.
  • "Too-greedy-to-fail" big banks will trigger harsh backlash. Banks pay huge bonuses yet modify only 9% of 4 million stressed home loans.
  • America's wealth gap will trigger grass-roots rebellion. Wall Street's greed is so pervasive, gluttonous and obvious the rest will rebel.
  • The "Goldman Conspiracy" will be a target for retribution. Goldman's hubris is most egregious and flagrant. Their arrogance will backfire.
  • Wave of creative destruction will revive commercial banking. Investment bankers are killing commercial banking, Glass-Steagall will return.
  • Secrecy protecting Wall Street's unethical behavior to end. Wall Street's control over Washington's lawmaking will come to an end.
  • The Fed's shadow banking will collapse under excess debt. Central bank balance sheets overdrawn, feeding new bubble with cheap money.
  • A "Black Swan" of huge unintended consequences. Next bubble, highly unpredictable, huge collateral damage on Wall Street.

Make the most of this new bull. Then get out -- before you're the collateral damage.

Part of the anger stems from the fact that it is patently obvious that the entire rescue is aimed at banks, by banks and for banks with any ancillary benefits accruing to citizens a matter of accident.

With interest rates held at zero percent several classes of citizens are harmed. Savers now receive next to nothing on bank deposits and those dependent on cash flow from safe, fixed-income bonds for their living expenses can attest that it is tough going out there.

But banks? Banks love being able to borrow at near zero percent and then loan it out at much higher rates. That is, in fact, the precise recipe for returning banks to financial health.

You might think that banks would carefully tend their public images by sharing some of the bounty offered by the zero percent financing provided central banks, but you'd be wrong.

Banks are making the highest profits on mortgages since records began

11 Aug 2009

The difference between the interest rate that banks charge and the rate at which they borrow is the biggest since the Bank of England started collecting data 15 years ago.

The figures demonstrate that, two years after the credit crunch began, consumers are being hit harder than ever, despite the Bank cutting interest rates to an all-time low of 0.5 per cent.

Last night senior politicians and campaigners called on banks, many of which have been propped up with billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money, to “play their part” by lowering borrowing costs.

Today Mervyn King, the Governor of the Bank, is to unveil his latest quarterly predictions for the economy. He is widely expected to say that lenders are failing to pass on billions of pounds of government support to consumers and small businesses.

According to analysis by Michael Saunders, the chief UK economist at Citigroup, the difference between these rates and the rate banks charge each other is at a record margin. Banks are making a full 2 percentage points of profit on fixed rate mortgages – the first time this has happened, the Bank’s data indicated. Two years ago, lenders made 0.1 percentage points profit on a five-year deal.

At every turn we have banks acting rapaciously and with an extraordinary sense of entitlement and unlimited greed.  It is almost as if banks have lost the ability to understand that it is they who live off the efforts of others, not the other way around.  Politicians (such as Mr. King above) have remarked and complained about this mind-set and related actions, but so far have proven unwilling to apply any real force to the situation.

Even as public money has saved their profession and individual companies, banks and credit card companies have jacked up fees, yanked lines of credit, and feasted on the widest spreads in decades on their way to posting record profits in some cases. 

And so people are becoming angrier and angrier and an increasingly lost Wall Street and Washington DC crowd, hopelessly tone-deaf to everything but the voices in their own echo chambers, seems unable to comprehend why this should be.

Which is why I sincerely hope that the trillions spent have not been utterly wasted and will provide some lasting benefit.  Because if it turns out that the trillions have all been thieved or diverted as seems to be the case, and the economy crashes back again, I can easily see the social mood turning just a little bit darker.

Let's hope not.

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74 Comments

Jeff Borsuk's picture
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Yes ...let's hope not.

However, extremely flammable fumes are swirling and collecting...all it takes is one spark.

Jeff

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I find it fascinating how the only real public displays of discontent have been the anti-tax parties a few months back  and now the anti-health-care reform meetings. It seems to me the anger is somewhat displaced. Our taxes are high but we ain't seen nothing yet. And our current health system is not cost effective or equitable.  But I do think the population senses something is terribly wrong and these are the outlets for that anger that have been publicized. Why aren't we demonstrating in front of Congress or Wall Street? It's not taxes or health care, it's our democratic system that has been co-opted. Why aren't these town hall meetings about bail-outs and public debt? At some point I worry that the public anger will be properly directed and it won't be pretty.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I believe that the government and the banksters "hope not" as well; and as long as there IS NOT some uppity behavior on the part of p'd-off Americans, they will continue with their frauds and swindles as long as they can possibly get away with doing so.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

During the last "great depression" Americans had the opportunity to take our country back.  The last great depression was unescicary - it could have been stopped by FDR.  I hope that this time, we have the courage and the fortitude to excercise our soveirgn power in issuing and controlling our own monetary system.

Like the last great dpression, this one is intentional.  And like the last great depression this one can be quickly stopped.  We all know that our privately operated "debt based" money system is terminally flawed - it cannot be sustained.  No matter what rules the bankers may make or break; the rules of mathematics will always prevail.  There will always be more debt than money.

Robert H. Hemphill, Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, identified the problem and solution during the early 1930's: 

"We are rapidly approaching a situation where the government MUST issue additional currency. It will very soon be the only move remaining. It should have been the first step in the recovery program. Immediately upon a revival of the demand that the government increase the supply of currency, we shall again be subjected to a barrage of skillfully designed and cunningly circulated propaganda by means of which a small group of international bankers have been able, for two centuries to frighten the peoples of the civilized would against issuing their own good money in sufficient quantities to carry on their necessary commerce."

"We shall never recover on credit. Even if it were obtainable, it is uncertain, unreliable, does not expand in accordance with demand, and contracts unexpectedly and for causes unrelated to the needs of commerce and industry...In our present situation the issue of additional currency is the only way out."

The solution is almost too easy to be fully understood...simply issue our own money free from banker debt.  This would not only end the depression, it would provide a truly sustainable monetary system free from government debt and free from federal taxes.

I am proud to say that I protest against the private federal reserve and the coming facism at every opportunity.  I hope you're right in saying that people are "fed up with the financial and economic looting that has already taken place and downright angry to see that it is continuing unabated."  Maybe this means that hundreds of thousands, or millions of citizens will show up at the next "End the Fed" protest, or at the G-20 summit, Sept. 24-25 in Pittsburgh

The revolution, if it comes, will really be an awakening.  People, in mass, will begin to understand that our monetary system is a scam run by the international banking cartel.  And more importantly, I hope they realize that the true key to prosperity and freedom is a sustainable monetary system - a system based on wealth instead of debt.

Larry

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

DrKrbyLuv Quote: Like the last great depression, this one is intentional.  And like the last great depression this one can be quickly stopped. 

So true but we all know history always repeats itself. Recessions, Depressions, Rebellions & big bad ugly wars are pretty much assured by humans flawed nature. The tools of destruction & control just become larger & more ugly overtime.

I feel the best we can do is recognize it for what it is & prepare for what IMHO is probably overdue.

Dwig's picture
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

DrKrbyLuv says:

Quote:
The solution is almost too easy to be fully understood...simply issue our own money free from banker debt.  This would not only end the depression, it would provide a truly sustainable monetary system free from government debt and free from federal taxes.

Right, simple, all of us ordinary folks band together to create a new national currency from scratch. (We know how to do that, don't we?).  Simple, yes, but hardly easy.

There is a potential partial solution along those lines, however; check out the recent L.A. Times story about local currencies for a hint.  There is a solid history of local currencies arising from grass roots origins.  Typically, they die out when the national economy recovers, but some, like Michael Linton's LETS systems, manage to keep going on a small scale.  Also, there's a ton of information on the Internet about how they work, problems/traps/pitfalls, etc.  Given a national mood of distrust and disgust of Washington/New York dysfunction and corruption, there's a good chance of a real bloom of local currencies over the next few years.

{Blue sky warning} If enough of us ordinary folks got angry enough, we could possibly grow a nationwide network of local, then regional alternative currencies, and maybe even a national currency based on the bottom-up structure.

On a slightly different tack, another way to express our displeasure more immediately and individually, is to stop dealing with the national banks in favor of our regional and local banks and credit unions.  A shift of, say, 15% of personal banking and savings accounts away from the big boys would attract far more serious attention than investments in PM or foreign currencies.  Similarly, get out of the stock, commodity, etc. markets and invest locally in projects of value to your community.

RJE's picture
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

   Blow it up!

Davos's picture
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I read on a Drudge linked article how militia's were growing. The author attributed it to a race thing. I'd disagree, I watch these town hall videos and even though the folks can't articulate with any economic clarity any facts and figures - they aren't dumb - they know we are broke.

I think people are fed up with the fiscal irresponsibility, with the overreaching, with the governments inability to manage it's collective way out of a paper bag. When this thing crashes - again - I'm not sure we are going to see the 1930 era social Kun ba Yah fabric.

Good read! Thanks Chris

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

there is no way on god's green earth will we wait another 3 years to finally work things out. things will be worked out in an " unpleasant " manner this fall. we will rise up and literally snatch our country away from the looting banking oligarchs. done deal my brother.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

" But banks? Banks love being able to borrow at near zero percent and then loan it out at much higher rates. That is, in fact, the precise recipe for returning banks to financial health."  what is your problem? it's the friggen banks that got us in this mess. shake yourself dude. great video series, but i don't understand this point. i want the banks to fail. they need to fail... they are they cancer. they should burn in hell as far as i'm concerned.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Keep asking your question, I'm not listening, I'm on the phone.

300:1 was, if I recall the calls for the bailout against/for.

I'm assuming health care will be 30,000 to 1 and will go through - if a phone call is more important than a constituants question....

 
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Davos wrote:

I think people are fed up with the fiscal irresponsibility, with the overreaching, with the governments inability to manage it's collective way out of a paper bag. When this thing crashes - again - I'm not sure we are going to see the 1930 era social Kun ba Yah fabric.

Good read and good response.  The sad thing is that American no longer really knows what to do and how to be involved and respond in an intelligent manor.  It's not really our fault.  Generations have all been bribed with "things" for so long to just look the other way and swallow hard.  A form letter to our Congress is about all we have time for.

People are finally responding in every way they know how now but are being dismissed as dumb and mocked in the media.  Eventually, when you corner an animal it usually reacts strongly and usually with little thought beyond the next few moments.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I remember not to long ago the media frenzy associated with the executive bonuses.  People were outraged at the $100 million plus bonuses being paid out to executives of too big to fail institutions while the cartel was funneling countless billions of tax payer dollars to the same institutions.  The public was so caught up in the bonus frenzy they didn't see the forest for the trees.  I worked at a bank and listened to clients constantly complain about the relative small bonuses, but none of them ever mentioned the much larger fleecing taking place under their noses.

Now I see the same frenzy regarding health care, and I'm beginning to wonder if it's not just another distraction carefully implemented by the powers that be.  They're keeping the attention somewhere anywhere other than the cookie jar.  The Fed has used hundreds of billions of free dollars to stage a market rally not seen since the depression.  At the same time, they've enabled the financial institutions to raise billions in fresh capital and adjusted the yield curve for profit perfection,  all at the expense of the tax payer and ultimately our future.  Whether true or not, you have to admit, the talk of the town is a ridiculous health care bill that will most likely never pass.  I hope.

Thanks for the article Chris and your website.       

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

A revolution is exactly what this country needs.  Seriously.  The financial plutocracy isn't going to give up their power willingly.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I closed my bank account last March.  Been cashing my payroll check at the exact bank branch where issued and paying all bills with cash except one which gets paid with a money order.  Recently I received a small ($385.00) class action settlement written on a US Bank check.  Went down to US Bank to cash the check.  They charged me $5 for the "privilege".  I started to argue but stopped.  I told the teller, fine, take the $5 and my thumb print, just give me the balance.  Then she politely asked me if I would like to OPEN A FREE CHECKING ACCOUNT!

I guess you know what I told her.  Manager had to ask me to leave.  Free checking my a$$. 

Remember, the revolution will NOT be televised.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Dream on Martenson gang. There will be no revolution in the US of A.  Life is too comfortable here, and the people are chock full of the basic narcotics (bread & circuses):  corn syrup laden food, faux news, and American I Dull.  We've had our revolution, become an empire and are heading towards collapse.  This time the "barbarians" are coming from the East.

Dig it?

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

And the tools are available in legislation right now to prevent this debt melt down.  I wish there was a way to get Mr. Martenson to review and support legislation to put money into circulation free from debt and free from interest.

Mr. Martenson would you be willing to support legislation to introduce wealth money into circulation so that the principle plus the interest can be paid on this debt money system?

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

DrKrbyLuv Quote: Like the last great depression, this one is intentional.  And like the last great depression this one can be quickly stopped. 

Idoctor wrote:

So true but we all know history always repeats itself. Recessions, Depressions, Rebellions & big bad ugly wars are pretty much assured by humans flawed nature. The tools of destruction & control just become larger & more ugly overtime.

I feel the best we can do is recognize it for what it is & prepare for what IMHO is probably overdue.

DrKrbyLuv is correct.  It can be quickly stopped and the tools in legislative form are available right now in state legislture.  The question is do the american people have the guts to even make a phone call and demand that one simple in the law about how all money is put on the books(as an interest bearing debt) is changed.

Idoctor,

How about we identify the cause of recession/depression, and what gives the powers at be the ability to control a nation into going into wars that the public doesn't want............then destroy and revoke those abilities from them forever, and give the next generation the tools available to make sure the usurists don't get control of a nations money supply again?

Forget preparing for it, lets do something about it and change what the hell these bastards are doing to our country through the control and issuance of the nations money supply, and the power that comes with that!

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

"Revolution coming with the next downturn."

As Davos would say: "+1"

A revolution--a violent one--is, to my mind, simply inevitable, and that is exactly why Government Sachs has futiley ramped the stock market--to avoid that nasty condition where breathing ceases. They have two insurmountable local problems and one international problem though:

L-1. Any baby boomer (and numerous others) with any sense is going to use such ramp jobs as an escape vehicle, thus applying relentless downward pressure on the market ; pressure which will require government "intervention" to the extent that said "governement" will become the majority holder of all market paper, and;

L-2. although Government Sachs can go in and buy everything with the printing press (and thus levitate the DOW to some even more absurd multiple of  the absurd non-dividend paying multiple of where it's at now--and dividends are about to become everything in a baby-boomer retirement scenario), such a levitation is not only NOT going to appease the budding vigilante mobs, it will actually be the most potent and instantaneous of catalysts that could have ever been applied, as so few of the new Vigilante Class will still be in the market (having already exited out of fear, need, or both) that they will only see "insult added to injury."

I-1. Dollars now grow on trees, and every country has trees.

There is NO WAY OUT for Government Sachs--at least no way out that is not going to involve the citizen-induced  end of numerous Government Sachs self-appointed Oligarchs--at this point.

That's my opinion, and while I've been forecasting this Endgame for long enough to have been considered an extremist  nutjob (a year or so now), I'm actually starting to look mainstream--if you're paying any attention to something other than the MSM, though even they are starting to brush up against reality now and then.

It doesn't take being a "nutjob," an "extremist," or a "doomer" to understand the reality of what's about to happen, it merely takes not "living on" Wall Street, which I don't. What's about to happen is actually pretty god damn obvious to a large number of unemployed, gun-loving Americans. Of course they're not saying the words, but Timothy Mcvay didn't exactly advertise either...

There are millions of indignant--and righteously so, pissed off, 2nd amendment supporting, Constiution respecting, abused and neglected citizens out there right now; citizens who have "Nothing left to lose."

Someone above mentioned "cornering an animal"; well, it's about like that, and that animal is about to react according to its instincts, emotions, and in direct proportion to the amount of abuse heaped upon it by its ruthless "master," but this "dog" is "bearing" more than teeth, it's holding a Wall-Street size grenade in its mouth (by the pin) (precarious), and when it lurchs out of that corner toward those who have trapped it, there will be little left but shreds of banker flesh.

These Wall Street criminals have challenged probability; they're about to realize the mathematical methods exist because they are inviolable--at least when it comes to a normal distribution of human psychological profiles. The collective sample is now large enough to insure encounters with all imaginable events.

Were I on the jury that was evaluating the guilt of any such "dogs" that survived their natural fight or flight response, I'd have to be sitting there thinking about he old maxim...

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

The problem with your analysis Headless, is that it's, well, headless.  Who are all those well-armed Amerikuns going to point their weapons at?  Their neighbors?  They sure as hell won't get as far as the Gold ManSacks monied classes. Those folks will easily fly the coop before the rednecks hit their neighborhoods.  More than likely the armed forces will be called in to quell the redneck uprising.

Get a grip!

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I'm feeling more and more angry every day, but when I randomly question people in my circle of contact honestly I haven't detected a significant shift in attitude.  I don't think they have felt any pain yet or been forced to make changes in lifestyle.  They sometimes sense something is not right but they're too busy with work and family and stuff to educate themselves on how the economy really functions and they feel contacting their congressmen or senators would not accomplish anything. 

That might begin to change if there is a shift in the mainstream media, like what CM noted above.  But sources I heard just today like Marketplace on NPR were still full of the same old "recovery is coming now" stuff based on GDP, employment numbers, etc.  No mention though of the faults and manipulation in these measures which CM has done such a great job explaining.

I'm curios what other folks have observed in other areas of the country.

Tom

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Tom:

So correct. I laughed hard when Max Keiser was being interviewed by a French reporter and she said well what about unemployment, that was good news.

His reply. You have to scratch the surface of those numbers, then a simpleton explanation of the B-D complex model.

Oh well, like Greenspan said, (I'm close not exact here) the numbers can't be conned.

Billy-Bob, what you say reminds me of an older guy I knew when I rowed, he was ex state dept. and told me how the well to do have spare houses, cars, condos, clothes, bank accounts in Switzerland. Just there in case TSHTF.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Billy bob said:

" They sure as hell won't get as far as the Gold ManSacks monied classes."

And "nobody will ever knock down the Twin Towers..."

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I've been living in China since March, and I still keep in decent touch with my friends in the States. I've got to say that based on what I've seen coming out of the media, based on the people I speak or exchange e-mails with in the States, based on what expats in China understand -- a small segment of the population actually takes the time to read or watch material, such as Chris' crash course. An even smaller segment actually makes the effort to understand it. 

I can make a blanket statement to someone like "the economy's not doing well" and the conversation will continue smoothly, but if I try to discuss in depth issues with mortgage fincances, market bubbles, monetary policy, government fiscal responsibility, or debt burden, the conversation stops. I had a conversation with a University English teacher here, who had studied economics, in which we began by discussing the GM bankruptcy. He argued that it was important for the government to support GM for the well-being of US manufacturing and employment figures. When I tried to discuss the GM bankruptcy was just another case of government mismanagement and the power of special interest groups, and then address the roots of the financial crises, I lost him completely. 

Most people's perspective is completely shaped by mass media or by a single book or two on economics. There is a vast divide between people who understand the concepts of economics and finance and those who accept what comes out of mainstream media. It's pretty much defined by those who invest the time to read the literature, and those who read the author's Wikipedia page or the Sparknotes

Honestly, although I have all the hope in the world that the US finds someway to shed this disgusting cloak of rapacious greed combined with willfull ignorance, it will take some world-changing event for it to happen. The population of the States seems, to me, to be too complacant, too content with their meager mediocrities, and most critically too ignorant of what is important - self-motivated grassroots political activity, an understanding of political and economy liberty, an objective sense of what is right and wrong - too ensure the continuity of a democratic republic.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

rht1786,

I think your observations are pretty close to the mark. It will likely require a huge event to spur any real interest or efforts at corrective actions.  Humans are basically lazy and Americans have it pretty easy with the quantity of energy slaves we have working for us (measured in barrels of oil consumed per day per person). 

Coop

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Politicians (such as Mr. King above) have remarked and complained about this mind-set and related actions, but so far have proven unwilling to apply any real force to the situation.

Mervyn King is the governor of the bank of england and not a politician. This is why he can speak something nearer to the truth than the UK government which is behaving like a rabbit in the headlights. When MK said on August 12th that the recession (I prefer to call it a contraction) is pretty bad, and on the same day unemployment figures in the UK rise to 2.5M (8% I believe) the stockmarket rises. There seems to be suggestions on this post that Goldman Sachs are doing some manipulation on Wall Street - any facts to back this up? Could the same be happening in London?

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

The Six Stages of Awareness

STAGE 2:  Next, you might find yourself full of anger ...

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Disappointment

Dr. Martenson,

I have to say I'm deeply disappointed that you posted this seed of revolution on your site. I know they were not your words, but by posting them you have endorsed them. Even though your specific commentary was just an observation of the social mood, the post itself is just more kindling for the pro-revolution fire that is spreading through this community. I'm sure many here feel that is a good thing, but I for one, feel that viewpoint is very short-sighted. 

Revolution=Unspeakable Suffering and Death.

Is that something we want for our children?

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Re: Disappointment

JAG,

If the purpose of the CC is to understand, plan and take action, understanding the ebbs and flows of social mood for potential outbreaks to one side or the other is essential.  Anyone who feels Dr. M is endorsing the message in the title of the article has not watched enough of the CC or read enough of his writings to understand that he is politically agnostic, in my opinion.  I do understand what you are saying, and with many newcomers recently, the post may send the wrong message, but I think anyone who's been around here long enough knows that Chris posts data he deems worth observing, good, bad, or ugly.  In this case, the "data" is a "main stream" voice breaking very unusual new ground.  My 2 cents.

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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Hello JAG:

While I was saddened to read that I think:

  1. Judging from the town hall videos it is likely accurate
  2. Fore warned is fore armed
  3. I agree with Patrick: Chris did years of work then gave it away for free. His intent is to help

I totally agree that it was unpleasant. Congress should get their act together, abolish the Fed, re-denominate a dollar based on our Constitution and stop the bread and circus empire and uphold the Republic that we were entitled to. That, not Social Security, free health care or anything else is our ONLY entitlement. We should hold them accountable. We don't and this is what we get: A corrupt empire. All empires fall. 

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Makoi
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Grassroots movement. 

If Citizens would begin closing their regular "for profit bank" Bank savings and checking accounts and put their money into "non-profit" Credit Union savings and checking accounts.  The revolution fire would be lit.  This is simple.  Citizens will still have their credit and ATM cards.  They will earn interest (maybe higher), and can get most all of the same products from their non-profit Credit Unions that are working for their Depositors, instead of the Banksters.  Remember not all Credit Unions are non-profit.  Not all are strong and healthy.  Choose wisely, but choose.  Vote for change with your money, and the Citizens of this Country can beat the Bankers PACs that use your money as their own.

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Dee NH
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

njwatts,

I don't know how much of this is factually accurate but this recent article sums up the theory against Goldman Sachs.

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/08/great-american-bubble-machine.html

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alcatwize
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Absolutely.  A national movement of money would send a very strong message. If you have savings in a bank that took TARP money, move it to one that didn't.  It's that simple.

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cmartenson
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Re: My purpose in posting

JAG,

I understand your concerns and I admit that this is uncomfortable territory.  To be clear I am not advocating nor endorsing nor hoping for any sort of social unrest or revolution.

My purpose in broaching this issue is to note that, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, there is an undercurrent of anger and displacement that is building in this country and I want to avoid it.

My hope is that some people in power (and in banks in particular) will read this post and others like it and change their behavior before they push too far and cause something unnecessary to happen.  How will they change their ways if not by having their actions and possible consequences raised in open discussion?

Further, I feel a responsibility to point out what I am seeing, the good the bad and the ugly, and I see enormous risks in the current actions of our monetary and fiscal authorities and on the part of irresponsible large financial institutions.  They risk everything; our safety, security, wealth, and livelihoods.  If they blow it, and I think that's an all-too-probable outcome, then things could well become unpleasant. 

If anyone here has a better way of working towards a peaceable outcome, I am quite interested in what that might be.  So far all attempts to change the official actions by discussing the actions themselves have proven utterly fruitless.  Discussing the possible consequences is a different tactic.

I encourage everyone to be responsible for the tone and tenor here - if you detect a post or poster that crosses a line, please either respond with your words, or make us aware of it by flagging the post.

Let me recall one of the site rules; posts or comments that advocate breaking the law are strictly forbidden. One thing that would be a shame would be to allow someone whose only intent is to harm this site do so by abusing this rule.   I have noted several posts that weave dangerously close to the line and we're keeping a close eye on things. 

Lastly, I think it unavoidably newsworthy that Marketwatch ran that article.  It tells us something significant about a growing mindset.  I'm not sure I would characterize pointing it out as equivalent to sowing a "seed of revolution" here.  There are many here and elsewhere who are still working through the anger stage and it is not my intent to either encourage or deny them their passage through that stage.

It's a fine line, thank you for your concern.  Duly noted.

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seekingvalue
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

These comments have a very rear vjiew mirror feel to me.  They are like the covers of national magazines which shout the obvious to the so called average man.  As a bear I find extreme comments like this in such a mass media forum like

CBS Marketwatch to make me seriously question my position and take the other side.

These comments make us no money taken at face value, they only entrench a wrong position.  Investing it highly counter intuitive.

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Bill MacGregor
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Hi Tom, in answer to how it's looking in other parts of the country, I though I'd give you my perspective from the UK.

The major media outlets are cautious on the economy with some noted points of reality and cynicism. One noted commentator is Gillian Tett of the FT (www.ft.com), another is Larry Elliot of the Guardian (www.guardian.co.uk). Overall, there is sickly attention to 'green shoots' balanced by 'don't be fooled, it'll never be the same again' opinions.

This is somewhat supported by the political argument as the current Labour administration has been pursuing an aggressive Keynesian policy and thus is building the mother and father of all national debts. On the other hand, we have the Conservatives who expect to win the election, due next spring, saying that the debt must be repaid through a period of austerity, thus a potential return to Thatcherism/Reganism . This means that there is a lot of heat but not much light. We get better from the aforementioned Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England (not a politician as CM said, but actually a politically active appointee civil servant) who is fairly realistic and open.

As for day to day life where I am, there is little feeling of recession or economic concern. However, I suspect that is because I live in a rural area with a high retirement population which has been somewhat protected (despite the falling yields on cash deposits).There is also a significant farming sector here, which has been coping well. Unemployment is rising (now 7.8% of working population and highest since 1995) but, apart from the personal stories featured every now and again in the media, at first glance there seems to be little heart to fight. Nearly half of the unemplyed are aged under 25 and the worst job losses concentrated in the usual industrial heartlands across the south Wales, the midlands, Liverpool/Manchester, the north east, Glasgow/Edinburgh, so there could be a lot of muted acceptance - especially as social benefits do pay enough to keep you alive.

Even amongst the 'usual suspects' around here, such as those in my own network involved in permaculture, sustainability issues, LETS or the Transition Towns movement, there is no real economic awareness. They are all aware about climate change and peak oil but not about economic collapse (I'm changing that!). Things are also a bit confused with the MPs expenses scandal that has got nearly everyone very, very angry.

Despite what I say, however, in recent years there has been a significant rise in one-issue campaign organisations covering issues such as personal freedom, climate change etc. There is also a growing movement to change our electoral system, not least because there are plenty of people willing and able to protest because there is no other way they can make a difference. This may coalesce into something more focussed.

My own view is that TSHTF will happen when food and fuel shortages impact the population at large, which will precipitate protest and uprising, which itself will be forcibly squashed by the authoritarian government. So, be debt free and part of a rural, local and self sufficient community.

Be well

Regards, Bill

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Matt Holbert
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Woodman and rht1786-

I'm with you.  Other than my spouse, those in my circle of friends and family are unwilling to consider that maybe it's not normal for the average family share of the national annual interest obligation to be higher than average annual family income.  NPR is part of the problem.  In one segment of reporting they disclose dismal figures and then in the next segment they report that everything is fine. (Like this morning.)  If they want to be a viable institution, they need to restructure and become much more comprehensive.

The Silent generation (precedes Boomers) are only concerned with preserving what the have now and can only be counted on to protest government action if it infringes on Social Security and Medicare.  Generational cycle authors Strauss and Howe predicted in The Fourth Turning (1997) that Boomers would sit on their hands in the upcoming crisis (the one we are in now) until it is too late.  The younger generations (and Boomers and Silents as well) are simply numblers (numb bumblers) walking or driving around talking or peering at some electronic device in their hand or ear.

The manipulators continue to come up with ways to grab money from investors.  One friend has told me that his investment advisor has him in some kind of inflation-proof product.  It will go on till all of the credit is washed out of the system and this guy will stick with the system until the account statement reads zero.

Those who are protesting these days are Ditto heads and Beckites who are running on emotion and not intellect. ( A world view shaped by these two is not very deep --  nor very wide.)  Many of them invoke Tom Paine and Ayn Rand without having read any of their work.  I recently saw a truck that had "Palin 2012" bumper sticker and a "Who is John Galt" sticker.  Talk about a disconnect.  Promoting the best known religious fundamentalist of current times alongside the best known atheist of the 20th century.

We've got a ways to go before any constructive action will occur. 

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switters
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

switters wrote:

A revolution is exactly what this country needs.  Seriously.  The financial plutocracy isn't going to give up their power willingly.

Just to clarify, I am not advocating for violence.  But I do think that a revolution in the way that our country is governed, our economy is run, and our society operates is sorely needed.  We are on a patently unsustainable path that almost guarantees future violence, hardship and despair. The way I see it, either we make some painful and difficult changes now or we face the catastrophic consequences of not doing so later.

Unfortunately, recent history has shown that the powers that be won't willingly cede their control and the rest of us won't force them to unless we are truly up against the ropes.  It very well may take social unrest on the scale on a revolutionary scale to bring about the magnitude of change we need.

I believe it is possible to achieve such a transformation without widespread violence.  It has happened before, and it can happen again.

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DrKrbyLuv
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

JAG,

I haven't noticed anyone coming close to crossing the line, which our host defines as "posts or comments that advocate breaking the law are strictly forbidden."

The time has come for us to excercise our legal rights as never before; which includes the freedom of speech and the freedom to protest in mass.  I'm encouraged to see the righteous anger of many of my fellow citizens as it is based on a growing understanding that our constitution is being shredded and the international banking cartel is stealing us blind.

Righteous anger and passion will give us the collective backbone to stand up and say no to those who are breaking our laws by ignoring the constitution and allowing the international banking cartel to destroy our economy.

This is the truth and we have an obligation to do what we can to stop it; within the law, by becoming proactive.  If we sit idly by and don't do anything, then we are being complicit.  We're on our own folks, don't look for help from the corporate media. 

And please, don't forget that we have the final say, as long as enough of us say it together. 

Larry

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gregroberts
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Re: Gerald Celente- The Second American Revolution Has Begun

http://www.infowars.com/the-second-american-revolution-has-begun/

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RedShift
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No Revolution Coming

The notion of popular revolt against "banksters" in America is absolutely absurd, irregardless.  Revolutions need leaders - yet America has no patriots in power, not even in its own military.  Revolutions require resources, and again, Americans have no provisions other than their DVD collections and collectible NASCAR plates.  Revolutions require focus and determination - America is too distracted and pacified by TeeVee and online porn.  Revolutions require planning which is impossible when every electronic device with an IP address is feeding information into global intelligence databases.   Resistance is truely futile.

Banksters MAKE THE LAWS, their kangeroo courts enforce them, and the armed police will detain, capture, and neutralize all suspects working against the best interests of the banks.  The banksters will remove anyone, from heads of state down to street bums, they feel interfere with their plans.  JFK probably learned this the hard way.

You will have a choice, either quietly agree to vent your anger in front of TeeVee; or take to the streets and be shot or imprisoned.   No other choices avail the Lazy CheezDoodle Dandy Americans. 

Sad. But True.

The most effective weapon Americans possess is not a rifle, nor can of gasoline - but the power to conduct LOCAL COMMERCE.  This means growing locally, manufacturing, servicing and repairing locally, and especially using locally printed and issued currency, as opposed to US Federal Reserve Notes.  But again, Americans prefer shoddy slave-labor manufactured Chinese products purchased at the Walmart on credit cards or worthless fiat currency whose crash is inevitable.

What happens after the crash?  An SDR-backed New World Currency to replace the Dollar of course.  Then Americans can be pacified back into their suburbian self-love nests as the New World Order advances one more step. 

For those interested in the plans of the New World Order, visit this website while it is  still up:  http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=home

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arohwed
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Hello all from the Great Pacific NW. 

I see the fall starting when the average consumer moseys to the store and see's a $100 loaf of bread.  The very second our diluted dollar really hits the floor, the pigs will be running in all directions.  All of them.

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TheRemnant
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

cmartenson: If anyone here has a better way of working towards a peaceable outcome, I am quite interested in what that might be.  So far all attempts to change the official actions by discussing the actions themselves have proven utterly fruitless.  Discussing the possible consequences is a different tactic.

Hello Chris,

I truly believe your message and your information scouting is invaluable.  Let me tell you a little bit about me:

I live in Canada.  5 years ago, I paid taxes reluctantly, apathetically voted Conservative without conviction, and pretty much bopped along to whatever was being fed out of the Spin Machine.   The only sort of "conspiracy theory" I knew of in depth was the JFK assasination.

Then I printed out a document written in 1971 entitled "I want the Earth plus 5%".   I have no idea why I printed it out.  I left it around the house for, ahem, "bathroom reading".  It still was a few weeks before I got to it, but once I did...click.  Light bulb on.  I went numb when I learned to see.

Since that point, I have read everything I could on our monetary system and its mechanics.  My friends started bringing me textbooks like "Money, Banking, and the Canadian Banking System" from garage sales.  I talk about our monetary system the way other folks talk about sports, Brangelina, or American Idol.   You can imagine the interest level....or not.  I learned that the definition of a gentleman is someone who can play the accordian...but won't.

Since then, I have relished Mises, Rothbard, Hazlitt, Lefevre, Woods, Paul and many others AND a wide range of blogs and non-mainstream gibberish.  In short, as a number of posters here can relate to, I broke the Matrix.  However, I relapse from time to time, as recently as being enthusiastic about Ron Paul's 2008 Republican Campaign run as he was the only candidate I could relate to.  I followed it closely and watched in disbelief the Establishment/Status quo shut him down, despite acheiving some remarkable things.  But that is another story.

I have read, and read, and read.  Like you - and all of us, I hope - I want a non-violent successful outcome.   We cannot vote or protest our way out.  We cannot change the system, although I help wherever I can to educate and if a candidate came along with the right message (I doubt it...they would become targets or ignored) I would help in this area.  It is "utterly fruitless".  You are correct., and I believe that as well.  Collapse of the State is more likely than reform.  Yet the State has firmly planted an outpost in our minds from cradle to grave and it is almost impossible to break free of it.  The parasitic class has convinced/abused the productive class that we need them.  They're only as powerful as we give credence to them.

Crash Course does an excellent job explaining the nature of the looting and has a positive message of building community.  The only non-violent solution that stands a non-zero chance of success is "Agorism". Click the link in my signature.  I promise you it doesn't leave your site nor will I Rick-roll you.  Let me know what you think.

If you showed me what I typed above 5 years ago and told me I wrote it, I would have laughed at you.  Today, I feel ripped off that I didn't understand the above 5 years ago.  Damn public education.  Oh wait.  That's run by the State too.

Cheers, and apologies for the long winded post.

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jerry_lee
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Posts: 126
Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

"We need a revolution in this country!" Harry the tailor announced this to me just a few minutes ago. I had gone to his one man shop to drop off a suit for alteration so I can wear it at my daughter's wedding in  3 weeks. I have never done business with Harry before and all I had discussed with him today was when I needed my suit and how much I owed him.

But he was wound up! He didn't need anyone to get him started.

"I don't mean going out and shooting each other," Harry explained. "I mean ALL of us need to get out in the streets and make sure people are doing things right and we ALL need to do something to make things better!."

No one has ever said anything like that to me before.

Harry is about 65 and an immigrant. He also mangaged to quote Goldwater to me.

Because I had been reading this thread right before I went to Harry's shop, it stopped me in my tracks.

Talk of revolution is definitely not confined to the blogoshere these days!

It's even on Main St.

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njwatts
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Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

I support the localisation theme mentioned by several contributors here and advocated by the Transition movement among others.

Without even realising exactly what I was doing or why, since my epiphany in late 2008 I see that I have been gradually adapting my lifestyle over many years in preparation for this time. Low income, low expenditure, community-oriented activities whereby I can work alongside other like-minded people for mutual benefit and without worshipping the money-god. And it feels good.

I've become vegetarian and quickly adapted my garden to provide lots of wonderful organic food (both measures will reduce my carbon footprint plus other obvious benefits.) Now within my grasp is the power to undertake a variety of low-paid or even voluntary activities in the "grey-economy" without having to support the political/economic system that we all seem to find so repugnant.

Persuading the wider population of countries like the US and UK that an alternative, sustainable way of life can be achieved is no small undertaking - the influence of the advertising media and consumerist culture is deeply entrenched. But there is a growing body of people across the planet aware of Korten's "Great Turning" and leading by example within their communities. Life is certain to be difficult in "wealthy" countries as resource-limits and the need to reduce energy consumption become pressing. Is it possible that this melting pot of anger and disillusion can find solace in a simpler, more compassionate way of living? Do we have time to build the infrastructure to support this transition? Can there be a quiet revolution?

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fujisan
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Posts: 296
Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Davos wrote:

I think people are fed up with the fiscal irresponsibility, with the overreaching, with the governments inability to manage it's collective way out of a paper bag. When this thing crashes - again - I'm not sure we are going to see the 1930 era social Kun ba Yah fabric.

I'm not sure either, not in a world of anomie.

Normlessness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Emile Durkheim described anomie which is a state of relative normlessness or a state in which norms have been eroded. A norm is an expectation of how people will behave, and it takes the form of a rule that is socially rather than formally enforced. Thus, in structural functionalist theory, the effect of normlessness whether at a personal or societal level, is to introduce alienationisolation, and desocialisation, i.e. as norms become less binding for individuals. Individuals thus lose the sense of what is right and wrong.

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Robinson
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Posts: 24
Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

The next revolution is not a traditional revolution, is the revolution of the consciousness.

The video "zeitgeist addendum" is a confirmation and complementary to crash course

End to the central goverment, wellcome communal goverment.

End to the consumption, wellcome the consumption of the real needs, real food, human relationship, family.

Ento to the slavery by the elite, end to the egoism.

www.laitman.com

Davos's picture
Davos
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Posts: 3620
Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

Hello Fujisan:

Fujisan writes:

Emile Durkheim described anomie which is a state of relative normlessness or a state in which norms have been eroded. A norm is an expectation of how people will behave, and it takes the form of a rule that is socially rather than formally enforced. Thus, in structural functionalist theory, the effect of normlessness whether at a personal or societal level, is to introduce alienationisolation, and desocialisation, i.e. as norms become less binding for individuals. Individuals thus lose the sense of what is right and wrong.

That nails what is going on right here, right now!

I just wanted to say that I read all of your posts, and articles and I am amazed at what you find. Makes what I dig up look like Dennis Kneale on CNBC. Just wanted to say thank you for all your posts! I really, really enjoy them.

Take car.

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Davos
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JAG's picture
JAG
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Posts: 2489
Re: Revolution coming with next meltdown

More Celente on the 2nd Revolution: Audio Interview

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