Daily Digest

Daily Digest - August 3

Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:02 AM
  • Financial Sense News Hour Part 3B - Euthanasia Health Care Real Player, WinAmp, Windows Media Mp3 (Audio)
  • 1.6 Trillion Dollar Euthanasia Health Care Plan to Bankrupt the U.S. Fix Medicare
  • From Drudge: Warning: Oil supplies are running out fast
  • Bailout Nation
  • Why Bernanke is in panic mode (H/T Jeff Borsuk)
  • FDIC Report & The Top Secret Plan C
  • Sunday Funnies (A day late - humor)
  • Cash For Clunkers Site: Your Computer is now the property of the US Gov't? (Fox Video)
  • A conversation with Robert Shiller on Charlie Rose
  • Guns R US
  • Where is the Public Outrage Over Pensions?
  • DECLINE AND FALL OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE
  • The $328,835.00 Taxpayer Funded Photo Album (PDF)
  • Annaly Capital: Sherlock Holmes And The Mystery Of The Green Shoots (White-paper)
  • Alt-A Loans and Pesky Resistant Subprime Loans: The Lingering Mortgage Beast. $1.1 Trillion in Active Toxic Waste Mortgages. PennyMac Ready for Toxic Mortgages. What Happened to the Public-Private Investment Program?

Economy

Financial Sense News Hour Part 3B - Euthanasia Health Care Bill Real Player, WinAmp, Windows Media Mp3 (Audio)

  • 1:00 Bill creation
  • 4:30 Health care rationing & Euthanasia
  • 5:30 Utilitarian concepts, Humans bad for planet, Elderly have a duty to die, Columbine HS prototype of Death Education
  • 7:30 Medicare is broke
  • 9:28 Page 425 Government mandate for end of life counseling
  • 11:20 Rationing it for the elderly
  • 11:50 Mandatory government end of life counseling
  • 12:16 page 425, government provides end of life resources
  • 12:53 Doctors to provide end of life order
  • 13:30 John Conyers scoffs at reading this bill that he supports
  • 16:00 8% tax on small business, bill would bankrupt the country
  • 18:30 Mandating mental health standards page 768, requirnment to have counseling for increasing birth intervals between pregnancies (This is the U.S. not China!)
  • 19:50 Science Czar wrote in 1977 planetary regeim that advocated (to wierd to even write, just listen)

1.6 Trillion Dollar Euthanasia Health Care Plan to Bankrupt the U.S. Fix Medicare

[See page for all the rest...]

  • Sec. 1233, Pg. 425-426, Lines 22-25, 1-3 - Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death. 
  • Sec. 1233, Pg. 427, Lines 15-24 - Government mandates program for orders for life-sustaining treatment (i.e. end of life). The government has a say in how your life ends.

From Drudge: Warning: Oil supplies are running out fast

Catastrophic shortfalls threaten economic recovery, says world's top energy economist

The world is heading for a catastrophic energy crunch that could cripple a global economic recovery because most of the major oil fields in the world have passed their peak production, a leading energy economist has warned.

Higher oil prices brought on by a rapid increase in demand and a stagnation, or even decline, in supply could blow any recovery off course, said Dr Fatih Birol, the chief economist at the respected International Energy Agency (IEA) in Paris, which is charged with the task of assessing future energy supplies by OECD countries.

Bailout Nation

MANY people were outraged when Goldman Sachs returned $10 billion in federal bailout money just in time to report its biggest quarterly profit ever, along with a plan to pay $11 billion in employee bonuses. Barry Ritholtz, who writes The Big Picture, a popular financial blog, wasn’t heartened by the news, either.

Mr. Ritholtz, however, tried to keep his sense of humor. He posted a satirical story on his Web site by the comedian Andy Borowitz, titled “Goldman Sachs in Talks to Acquire Treasury Department: Sister Entities to Share Employees, Money.”

This is very much in the spirit of Mr. Ritholtz’s book, “Bailout Nation: How Greed and Easy Money Corrupted Wall Street and Shook the World Economy” (Wiley), in which he argues that the American financial system has been twisted beyond recognition by cynical bankers and their Washington enablers, who champion the free market in good times but cry out for government rescue when times are hard.

Why Bernanke is in panic mode (H/T Jeff Borsuk)

Usually, when Ben Bernanke is interviewed, he has the demeanor of a college professor in the presence of freshman students. Of course, as a full professor, he did not have to teach freshmen. That is for untenured assistant professors to do. Stammering and stuttering are therefore a real departure for him. There is a reason for this.
For the first time since 1914, there is a public debate in Congress over the Federal Reserve’s power. Never before has a majority of the House of Representatives called for what should always have existed: Congressional scrutiny over the FED’s money. Bernanke says that Ron Paul’s bill to audit the Federal Reserve is a bill to audit Federal Reserve policy. Yet the bill says nothing about auditing policy. So, what is he talking about?

FDIC Report & The Top Secret Plan C

Either way, the GDP release tells us that commercial real estate is on precipice of implosion. Is it any wonder that the U.S. Treasury is secretly working on a preemptive bailout program called Plan C gearing up taxpayers dollars for another toxic mortgage industry that has $3 trillion in loans? The failure of 2008’s residential mortgage bailout should tell you that bailing out CRE loans is a losing cause especially for taxpayers.

The problem for commercial real estate is the shrinking demand from consumers who have now found a new form of forced austerity. With 26,000,000 Americans unemployed or underemployed the demand for armies of strip malls is no longer a pressing issue. Sure, we can offer gimmicks like cash for clunkers but where is this money coming from? Most people realize that conspicuous consumption by consumers, Wall Street, and the government led us here and our solution is more conspicuous consumption?

Sunday Funnies (A day late - humor)

Cash For Clunkers Site: Your Computer is now the property of the US Gov't? (Fox Video) (That link it to the Coming Depression blog, if your browser crashes click here for video please)

A conversation with Robert Shiller on Charlie Rose (Video, sorry haven't watched it all yet)

Guns R US

We have so hollowed out our industrial plant that the only thing we are now producing is weapons of war. The great British Historian Arnold Toynbee’s theory about the decline of the Roman Empire has lessons for our current age.

The economy of the Empire was basically a Raubwirtschaft or plunder economy based on looting existing resources rather than producing anything new. The Empire relied on booty from conquered territories (this source of revenue ending, of course, with the end of Roman territorial expansion) or on a pattern of tax collection that drove small-scale farmers into destitution (and onto a dole that required even more exactions upon those who could not escape taxation), or into dependency upon a landed élite exempt from taxation. With the cessation of tribute from conquered territories, the full cost of their military machine had to be borne by the citizenry.

This I know. We cannot continue on this course of decline.

Yves here. I have to interject. "Cannot continue?" I see tremendous inertia as far as the path we are on is concerned. We not only have bread and circuses, have version 2.0, with offerings targeted by income level and age group. Back to Taplin:

Where is the Public Outrage Over Pensions?

Am I exaggerating? Perhaps, but if you look at what is going on right now in California, you are getting a glimpse of what will happen across most of the developed world. In California, public pensions are drawing scrutiny amid its crisis:

California's rapid economic decline has prompted Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to propose what once was unthinkable — rolling back generous pensions in a state heavily influenced by public employee unions.
The Republican governor said he's motivated by the need to save money. California has at least $63 billion in unfunded pension liabilities, an amount equal to roughly two-thirds of all annual general fund spending.

DECLINE AND FALL OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE

“Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.”

Roman Poet Juvenal – 77 AD

The $328,835.00 Taxpayer Funded Photo Album (PDF)

Annaly Capital: Sherlock Holmes And The Mystery Of The Green Shoots (White-paper)

Alt-A Loans and Pesky Resistant Subprime Loans: The Lingering Mortgage Beast. $1.1 Trillion in Active Toxic Waste Mortgages. PennyMac Ready for Toxic Mortgages. What Happened to the Public-Private Investment Program?

One thing the happy cheerleaders in the financial circuit fail to have is basic logic. Think of it this way. Why would we need all those trillions in backstops if we are now officially out of the recession? I’ll tell you why. These are the same people who led us to financial Armageddon and here they are promising the public once again that all is well yet quietly, they are developing methods to unload the remaining toxic mortgage waste so they can effectively be absolved from their massive financial sins.

69 Comments

CB's picture
CB
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 365
Re: blackened shoots sprouting - quick, get the green paint!

Quote:

Politics

Tax revenues post biggest drop since Depression

Aug 3rd, 2009 | WASHINGTON -- The recession is starving the government of tax revenue, just as the president and Congress are piling a major expansion of health care and other programs on the nation's plate and struggling to find money to pay the tab.

The numbers could hardly be more stark: Tax receipts are on pace to drop 18 percent this year, the biggest single-year decline since the Great Depression, while the federal deficit balloons to a record $1.8 trillion.

Other figures underscore the recession's impact: Individual income tax receipts are down 22 percent from a year ago. Corporate income taxes are down 57 percent. Social Security tax receipts could drop for only the second time since 1940, and Medicare taxes are on pace to drop for only the third time ever.

The last time the government's revenues were this bleak, the year was 1932 in the midst of the Depression.

"Our tax system is already inadequate to support the promises our government has made," said Eugene Steuerle, a former Treasury Department official in the Reagan administration who is now vice president of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation.

"This just adds to the problem."

While much of Washington is focused on how to pay for new programs such as overhauling health care -- at a cost of $1 trillion over the next decade -- existing programs are feeling the pinch, too.

Social Security is in danger of running out of money earlier than the government projected just a few month ago. Highway, mass transit and airport projects are at risk because fuel and industry taxes are declining.

The national debt already exceeds $11 trillion. And bills just completed by the House would boost domestic agencies' spending by 11 percent in 2010 and military spending by 4 percent.

jpitre's picture
jpitre
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 3 2009
Posts: 366
1.6 Trillion Dollar Euthanasia Health Care Plan to Bankrupt the

More disinformation about health care - you may or may not agree with the Obama health plan, however to slant a report to the extent this link does is plain trash.

The information on the link to "Liberty Counsel" regarding the Obama plan contains information that is misleading in the extreme. While I did not check all of the references & comments, the ones I did check were so badly slanted as to be dishonest

Beware that the comment list is misleading at best. I recommend that you check the comments against the actual document before drawing any conclusions.

Jim

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: 1.6 Trillion Dollar Euthanasia Health Care Plan to ...

Hello Jim:

SHORT VERSON: Specifically?

Take care,

LONG VERSION:

I'm still reading the original. In fact I was up until 5 am reading this mess.

I'm not a big fan of Liberty, flew with some guys who went there, know some friends sending their kids there. My kid isn't going there next year.

That said I'd like to know what you found. Your words are convincing, just the same I'd be interested in seeing hard data that validates your opinion. From what I have read of the original, as well as the papers on LC.org and hearing Puplava o FSN, everything is bad.

Anything otherwise would be a huge sigh of a relief.

But I'd like to read it myself.

I'm most upset by what I am seeing so far.

Most upset!

Everything I looked at makes it clear to me that from price (1.6 trillion a price that doesn't pay doctor's office visits,) to 900 billion (the new estimate) (that magically covers visits) to end of life decisions, to record keeping, to choices offered, the the only thing dishonest I see is this entire mess they call a bill.

Most of which I hear law makers saying that they need to rush it through and don't have time to read it.

What troubles me most is the government is in an area of our lives that it has no business being in. Worse, nothing in the media is covering this. A lot of bad can get vetted out through debate. I'm not seeing any debates because the underlying issues aren't being read.

What specifically leads you to say what you say? Again, I will welcome it with open arms, trust me. I'd love to believe I'm miss reading this and that Puplava has it wrong, that the original is wrong and that LC is wrong.

I watched Moore's film Sicko, so when Puplava had guest on reiterating what the 6 foreigners that flew right seat to me said about social medicine in the UK, Finland and I think Germany was where the other was from? I was disappointed. All of them said that the insurance we had was better than waiting over there because everyone over uses care for minor illnesses.

When on the Q and A line Canadians called in and said his guest had it wrong I was, for a moment, optimistic again until I heard his rebttal.

Again, any good news will be most welcome. I am deeply saddened by what I have read. 1.6 trillion we don't have to help people afford medical treatment I can try to stomach, a better than what I have now insurance plan I can try to stomach, a plan that has government nosing around personal data, contributing to decisions that should be left to the individual for care that is not even as good as what we have now - well I have a serious issue with that.

Take care

SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 2120
Why is USD < 78 a big deal?

As I understand it, folks feel that if the USD index drops below 78 it could be indicative of Something Big (& Ungood).  Why is 78 the magic number?  With it hovering juuust under 78 this afternoon, I'm curious.  Thanks.

Viva -- Sager 

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Why is USD < 78 a big deal?

Hello Sager:

About one of the best tech chart guys updated this chart this morning.

That would be the technical side.

I'm half way through Chris's fine report on bonds and the dollar, that will be for me a good part if not all of the fundamental side of it. Nate has done some on this which I posted last week as well.

Personally, I think what we could be seeing is that the Health Care bill has been voted on in committee and their saying this thing is going through. I think even the Chinese can see that this will tank what is left of the economy.

The government was taking in 2 trillion and we all know that is falling, and they are spending 4 trillion. Old estimates of health care were 1.6 trillion and that didn't pay the doctors visit. Somehow they re-estimated it to like 700 or 900 billion and supposedly that covers it all. From what I am reading 1.6 was too conservative.

All we need now is cap and tax and then everyone will  know the outcome.

Hope that is of use for you, take care!

CB's picture
CB
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 365
Re: more green shoots

Ok, a large company is expected to lose $2 and a quarter/share, but this is good news because the projected loss is "less than expected" and the share price is up two bucks. We have heard this same tune over and over and over. What I want to know is: who are the analysts? how are the projections made? (perhaps with advance information from the company so an artificial gap can be created? No, can't be, waaay to cynical...)

Quote:

Business

Weyerhaeuser shares rise as earnings beat estimate

Aug 3rd, 2009 | NEW YORK -- Shares of Weyerhaeuser Co. rose Monday after the major U.S. timber producer reported second-quarter results that beat analyst estimates and topped the previous quarter's performance.

The Federal Way, Wash., company reported Friday that, before one-time items, it lost 59 cents per share. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters expected, on average, an adjusted loss of 71 cents per share.

Weyerhaeuser's second-quarter also beat the previous quarter's adjusted results of a loss of $1.25.

In addition, the company forecast earnings growth for its pulp and wood products segments in the third quarter.

Longbow analyst Joshua Zaret on Monday noted the improvements in a client note and added that Weyerhaeuser "has a strong balance sheet ... which we believe should see it through this downturn despite a cash burn" and that it has done well at cutting costs.

He reduced his estimate of what Weyerhaeuser will lose this year to $2.20 from $2.25 and the amount it will lose next year to 55 cents from 85 cents.

Analysts expect the company to lose $2.37 this year and 81 cents per share next year.

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1501
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

OK, this should probably go in the Definitive Humor Thread, or there should be a Definitive Sad Thread.  While poking around for info on debt and treasuries, I came upon this, posted at the Public Debt website ( http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/ ):

Public Debt ranked number 4 out of 216 Agency Subcomponents as one of the best places to work in the Federal government.
 

No kidding!  I guess that's because debt is a "growth" industry!  Good grief!

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello CB:

Like Chris said in Steve's 2 beer audio, they keep lowering the bar. Think it was there I heard that.

I also heard on FSN a good point. Companies are cutting to keep profitable. While that is I suppose better than losing money it does give me concern if the cuts are on the R&D side and cutting jobs will only reinforce the negative feedback in the economy and will only stress things like unemployment etc..

Good read, thanks for the link

CB's picture
CB
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 365
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hi Davos, thanks as always for your work on the digest. I understand the pervasive desire to present bad news as good news and keep pushing the market up. However, I have been suspicious for years of the "analyst projections" and how they play to the market. Who are these people? who do they work for and why do they deserve to be quoted as if they have the word directly from heaven? After all the accounting and ratings agency scandals why should such pronouncements be taken at face value?

Glen Greenwald has a second piece today on control of the news by corporate masters - there is no longer even the fig leaf of attempting to deny who is really making editorial decisions - GE essentially admits its role in controlling how news should be covered by the media outlets it owns.

As for Weyerhauser - they are losing money - even after cuts, layoffs and other savings that are perhaps behind the change in estimates - but their shares are up...

Cheers

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1501
Treasury to borrow less than expected

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/tg250.htm

August 3, 2009
TG-250

Treasury Announces Marketable Borrowing Estimates

Washington, D.C. -- The U.S. Department of the Treasury today announced its current estimates of marketable borrowing for the July – September 2009 and the October – December 2009 quarters:

  • During the July – September 2009 quarter, Treasury expects to borrow $406 billion of marketable debt, assuming an end-of-September cash balance of $270 billion, which includes $200 billion for the Supplementary Financing Program (SFP).  The borrowing estimate is $109 billion lower than announced in April 2009.  The decrease in borrowing is primarily related to cash balance adjustments and lower outlays associated with the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (EESA) and the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 (HERA).
  • During the October – December quarter, Treasury expects to borrow $486 billion of marketable debt, assuming an end-of-December cash balance of $270 billion, which includes $200 billion for the SFP.

During the April – June 2009 quarter, Treasury borrowed $343 billion of marketable debt, finishing the quarter with a cash balance of $318 billion, of which $200 billion was attributable to the SFP.  In April, Treasury had estimated $361 billion in marketable borrowing for the April – June quarter, assuming an end-of-June cash balance of $245 billion.  The decrease in borrowing and increase in the cash balance was a result of lower net outlays, primarily due to higher repayments of the Treasury's investments under the Capital Purchase Program (EESA) and lower Treasury purchases of GSE preferred stock (HERA).

Additional financing details relating to Treasury's Quarterly Refunding will be released at 9:00 a.m. on Wednesday, August 5.

mantis308's picture
mantis308
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Posts: 4
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

That said I'd like to know what you found. Your words are convincing, just the same I'd be interested in seeing hard data that validates your opinion. From what I have read of the original, as well as the papers on LC.org and hearing Puplava o FSN, everything is bad.

I tend to agree. Making a list like that damages their credibility. The list is clearly produced by someone who is reading into the details in a negative light.

For example, the first item I see that grabs my interest:

Sec. 122, Pg. 29, Lines 4-16 - YOUR HEALTH CARE WILL BE RATIONED! 

Read the bill, and the definitions, and you see that they are setting that maximum you pay out of pocket, NOT the maximum you will be covered for. This is a classic example of the inflammatory comments that LC has made.

I agree that the whole thing is bad, but this LC analysis damages it's credibility by making this kind of analysis that is clearly flawed right off the bat.

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 480
Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello Mantis:

I have been reding the bill, right from the government's website. I see rationing of services. Puplava sees it also. I'm also seeing that Medicare is in the same situation, either it has to be funded or something, like care, is going to be limited.

Take care

mantis308's picture
mantis308
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Posts: 4
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

All I am saying is that making the inflammatory remarks like this damages it's own credibility. Just commenting on the specifics of the LC report line items. I went through about 8 or 9 of them before concluding that my own analysis of the bill is better than that.

The bill is terrible, and there is no way it can replace private health insurance. Clearly that is the aim of this bill, from my first hour or so of looking at it.

Adding my own inflammatory remark: I am reminded of the holocaust museum in DC when I read this thing. There was a whole wing about the collection of the public's physical characteristics that went on before the final solution was implemented. It gave them a list of names on who to go after.

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello:

By the way, anyone who wants to read the raw data in pdf format there is the link to the governments server. It (the pdf) is 1017 pages long but not that bad save for the strikes and additions, at least it is double spaced and large font. I'd recommend doing a download and save file, opening it in a browser window can be sluggish and it will likely freeze. Taking it off your hard drive instead of the server works well.

I'm having difficulty disproving LC and or Jim Puplava. Any help with specifics would be greatly appreciated! I'd sleep better finding at least a few mistakes. This is way to big brother-ish for me.

I do agree that a better translation into plain language would have been nice. I don't appreciate the wording or the remarks made by LC, clearly they are passionately upset. I've been that way with the economy before. But, if anyone knows of a 10 page cliff note version of this 1000 page bill without the LC sort of comments please let me know. I posted it because aside from that I am pressed for time on doing this myself.

While this is economy related paying for Dr. Kavorkian(SP?) is one thing, deciphering that I'm paying for Dr. Kavorkian is yet another, and I don't think that should be a government mandate and or decision.

Take care

Jeff Borsuk's picture
Jeff Borsuk
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 25 2008
Posts: 150
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Davos,

Many thanks for your hard work, as always!

Have you seen this? Kucinich getting clear from Barofsky that the Fed is actually paying banks extra to keep reserves versus lending (which is what we're being told).

http://dprogram.net/2009/08/02/video-kucinich-the-federal-reserve-is-paying-banks-not-to-make-loans-to-struggling-americans/

...and farther we go down the rabbit hole.

Jeff

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello Jeff:

Sorry, I fell asleep with the Mac on me about 5 am while reading the raw health care report from the govt. site. By the time I got up this morning today's DG for today was live and up there. I posted it on the DG of the 4th.

I meant to email you back, thanks much for the hat tip, this is really a super, super video! Jim Puplava talks about the bait and swap that this video focuses on but this was a riveting watch.

Take care

VeganD's picture
VeganD
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 18 2008
Posts: 636
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Davos
Thank you for the link to the healthcare bill, now that I have heard others' interpretations and I am calmer after seeing the enitre medical profession insulted by the promoters of the bill, I want to go through it in detail. Regards and I hope we are both wrong about the downsides to this bill. I am most suspicious because it is being forced through in such an emotional way. I appreciate the link to the final document.
Regards
D

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello Denise:

I'm most interested in hearing your take, iDoctor's take and Christohper Peters take, and I'm not sure if RN Carl is an RN? But I'm having a tough read of the bill. I'm not impressed with the comments but LC did manage to cliff note it just the same.

Look forward to getting some good insite on this!

Take care

gregroberts's picture
gregroberts
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 6 2008
Posts: 1024
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Fun with Peter Schiff and CNBC

http://www.europac.net/Schiff-CNBC-7-31-09_lg.asp

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2490
The Greatest Bull Market I Have Ever Seen!

Can you guess who said this today?

"This is the greatest bull market that I have ever seen"

"The dollar is dropping and I love it"

"Coming out of the best July since 1997, I think we are in pretty amazing shape"

dave s's picture
dave s
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 20 2009
Posts: 56
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Despite the lack of popularity, isn't it pretty much understood that health care rationing is necessary if costs are to be controlled?  And isn't health care already rationed, at least by customer if not by kind?  And rationing doesn't need to mean that those willing/able to pay more cannot have better access to other kinds of care (that is just capitalism at work, right?).

It seems to me what is really missing is meaningful tort reform, to remove much of the basis for over-testing and over-treating. 

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1501
Re: The Greatest Bull Market I Have Ever Seen!

How many guesses do I get?  First guess: Cramer.  2nd Guess:  Dennis Kneale  3rd guess:  Kudlow

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2490
Re: The Greatest Bull Market I Have Ever Seen!

BOOOOOOOO-YAAAAAAH!!

(Edit: Thats Cramer BTW. The time to short this market grows nearer)

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1501
Re: The Greatest Bull Market I Have Ever Seen!

That's a good idea.  Perhaps some of the engineers together with medical physicians and traders on this site could design a probe to stick on his head that measured his insanity level and provided a corresponding market-shorting indicator.

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

I'm posting this tomorrow and then I don't think I'll be spending too much more time covering this. I maybe alone with these thoughts but here is how I see this:

  1. Medicare Parts A and D are up to 63 trillion, it is broken and flat broke
  2. Health care coverage is expensive and a lot is left to be desired for
  3. This plan goes way beyond the scope of health care with respect to physicians and patients
  4. The plan costs 1.6 trillion, which has been re-estimated now to be only 700-900 billion, the government takes in 2 trillion and spends 4, with this plan we will be pushing 5-6 trillion and taking in 2
  5. I got a lot of comments and I had a bad feeling about reading the LC Cliff Note version of the bill, but let me tell you, that was better than muddling through the bill itself. I found another site, an investment site which has a Cliff Note version minus a lot of commenting. Here it is.

Out of all the stuff I have followed doing the Daily Digest since November 2008 this bill stands out the most.

Take care

Health Care Bill Explained (Bear Mountain Bill Investment Site)

Health Care Bill Explained (Bear Mountain Bill Investment Site):

Pg 22 of the HC Bill
MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123
THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

PG 50 Section 152
HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58
Govt will have real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 lines 21-24
Govt will have direct access to your banks accts for electronic funds transfer

Pg 95 Lines 8-18
The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7
Specs of Benefit Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - Your Healthcare WILL be rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18
Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

PG 124 lines 24-25
No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt Monopoly

PG 127 Lines 1-16
Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17
An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 146 Lines 22-25
Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24
ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above who does not provide public opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

PG 150 Lines 9-13
Business with payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23
ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

Pg 170 Lines 1-3
Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195
Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL American’s financial/personal records

PG 425 Lines 4-12
Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consultant. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19
Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3
Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24
Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9
An “adanced care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patient’s health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12
“advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 -
The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 

The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life 

Cloudfire's picture
Cloudfire
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 29 2008
Posts: 1813
"End of Life" Care

Hi, folks;

I'll make this brief, as it's not really economics-related . . . . There's a fundamental flaw in anyone deciding what "end of life" care should entail:  No one really knows, with certainty, when "end of life" is imminent.  Any health care professional, with any sense and more than a year of experience with the seriously ill, becomes progressively more cautious about making these sorts of predictions.  Patients routinely defy our expectations, in both directions, when given the choice to continue or discontinue care.  That is to say that patients with no apparent chance of survival often rally, and patients with no apparent terminal condition often die.  It is my own observation that their beliefs are often a self-fulfilling prophecy, in both directions.  My point is that there are no reliable criteria for determining that a condition is "terminal", and so, the decision to terminate care is largely arbitrary and subjective.  Since that is the nature of making these kinds of judgments, it would seem that legislating this process as a governmental function is likely to make the process more prone to grievous errors than it already is.

--C1oudfire

SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 2120
Re: Why is USD < 78 a big deal?

What I get from that chart is that 78 is a psychological barrier (like S&P 1000), and not a spot where below that number X cannot be supported or paid or maintained.  So if'n I'm right about that, the concern is that if the DXY closes below 78 (which it did today) people will get nervous, sell dollars, and start a self-reinforcing downward pressure on the ol' greenback.

Thanks for the chart, man (and for the tushie-kickin' DD).

Viva -- Sager

ELIZABETH S.'s picture
ELIZABETH S.
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 15 2008
Posts: 23
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

mantis308 wrote:

..... I am reminded of the holocaust museum in DC when I read this thing. There was a whole wing about the collection of the public's physical characteristics that went on before the final solution was implemented. It gave them a list of names on who to go after.

    Just thinking-

    Why the steady push for the "swine flu" vaccine to be made quickly available?

    Why the steady push for this "healthcare" bill to become law?

    With the end-of-life business in there, it makes one feel that we're ALL on a list....

    Kind of creepy.

bsm20's picture
bsm20
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 8 2008
Posts: 22
Re: Daily Digest - August 3
  • Sec. 1233, Pg. 425-426, Lines 22-25, 1-3 - Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death. 
  • Sec. 1233, Pg. 427, Lines 15-24 - Government mandates program for orders for life-sustaining treatment (i.e. end of life). The government has a say in how your life ends.

Jim is exactly right.  The idea that these (or any of the other listed provisions) somehow enable, promote or mandate Euthanasia or any particular form of end-of-life care is a serious misrepresentation (and, frankly, disappointing that it is further propagated and given credence by a site of this caliber).

What these provisions are intended to do (and pretty clearly do do) is make sure that all of the various end-of-life care options are available to the elderly under Medicare.  Simply put, if your loved one is near the end of their life and needs counseling, support, information, or other services, most of these would not be covered under current Medicare.  These changes make sure that these services are covered.  Nothing in these, by my reading, could remotely be construed to somehow promote euthanasia.  To suggest otherwise is, at best, a misunderstanding, most likely disingenuous or, at worst, a straight-up lie.

Granted, this is one big, bloated, painful-to-read bill, but it is such an obviously politically loaded subject that comments relating to it really deserve some legitimate fact-checking before reposting from a web site that has an obvious agenda of its own (whether you support that agenda or not, the facts should be checked).  Again, I have come to expect higher level of editorial review from this site. 

Please don't take this comment for any general dissatisfaction with this site.  Generally, I find the information on this site to be top-notch and highly valuable.  I strongly support the mission of the site and the great work that Chris is doing.  I think maybe this one just slipped by.... no big deal.... stuff happens.

Brian

DavidC's picture
DavidC
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 29 2008
Posts: 239
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hi bsm20,

I get an overriding sense, reading all the feedback on the Liberty site, that all the regulation is already in place if it were applied properly, much as with the financial problems. rather than trying to apply new, overly complicated rules and regulation with more more potential downside. Ho hum....

DavidC

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello BSM20/Brian

You wrote:

Jim is exactly right. The idea that these (or any of the other listed provisions) somehow enable, promote or mandate Euthanasia or any particular form of end-of-life care is a serious misrepresentation (and, frankly, disappointing that it is further propagated and given credence by a site of this caliber).

Jim who?

Jim Puplava, who is a summa cum laude graduate with a Master's Degree in Finance and graduated cum laude in History and Economics  and did the interview I posted - which corroborates that this does indeed promote Euthanasia, based on questions to a dean of law at LC?

Or JPITRE Jim, who said the information was disinformation but as of yet has not posted specifically why he feels this way? 

Site of this caliber? I'm not seeing coverage of this on any other blogs or the mainstream press. From what I can gather this bill is going to come in at a minimum of .7-.9 trillion and likely exceed 1.6 trillion. If a 1.5 trillion dollar real estate fiasco did this to the economy and if we have a 2 trillion dollar deficit what will another 1.6 trillion do to the economy and taxes?

This is Chris's site if he doesn't want me to blog this I gladly won't. That said I think news like this, substantiated by someone of Jim Puplava's caliber makes this a very important subject that should be covered on this fine site.

You wrote:

What these provisions are intended to do (and pretty clearly do do) is make sure that all of the various end-of-life care options are available to the elderly under Medicare. Simply put, if your loved one is near the end of their life and needs counseling, support, information, or other services, most of these would not be covered under current Medicare. These changes make sure that these services are covered. Nothing in these, by my reading, could remotely be construed to somehow promote euthanasia. To suggest otherwise is, at best, a misunderstanding, most likely disingenuous or, at worst, a straight-up lie.

Well I'm not an attorney, an economist or a trained health care provider - but when I see "issue an end of life order" common sense would dictate to me that I'm not misunderstanding this. Common sense would dictate to me that this needs to be posted so maybe we can get some discussion on it and seek some clarity. For now, all I have to go on is the Jim Puplava interview.

In my opinion that man is on Chris's level.

I agree that LC has it's own agenda, and I can see how this bill would pop up on it's radar. And, as I stated on short notice that was the only cliff note version I could get, and it was referenced in Jim Puplava's interview as that is where the dean of law resides.

You wrote:

Please don't take this comment for any general dissatisfaction with this site.  Generally, I find the information on this site to be top-notch and highly valuable.  I strongly support the mission of the site and the great work that Chris is doing.  I think maybe this one just slipped by.... no big deal.... stuff happens.

Again, this is CM's site, but in all honesty I've been doing this for 9 months and of all the news I have covered from then to now I have no doubt that this is a serious economic issue. Of all the plans to fix things I have seen in this period this one holds the least water. IMHO this is a multi billion, multi trillion dollar disaster of a plan, heaped on an economy that is - deficit wise - 2 trillion in the hole.

Take care

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

And, oh by the way:

Legality

Aid in dying is legal in several jurisdictions, including Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland and three American states.

This country was grappling with what some would consider a moral issue, for others a religious issue, for others an ethical issue or for others a humane issue.

Now, because of some bill about health care it is legal?

Now, because of some bill about health care it is a governmental decision?

What am I not seeing?

Broadspectrum's picture
Broadspectrum
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 14 2009
Posts: 66
Re: 1.6 Trillion Dollar Health Care Plan to ...

Hey Everyone,

I am not for this plan at all.  It is a disaster waiting to happen, going to happen.  It makes matters worse for individuals and as a group of individuals known as 'We The PEOPLE'.  It strengthens the Insurance Industry and the Health Care Industry (I could name more but they are just subsets of these 2 industries) while it picks the pocket of the regular person.   These so called market industries are,  very importantly, NOT interested in you maintaining your health or improving it BUT are very interested in helping you manage it when it's lost.  It shouldn't be called health care.  It should be called SICKNESS CARE.  

Now there are many INDIVIDUALS who are employed in this system.  Everybody probably knows somebody working in it.  I am stating, right now, that the overwhelming majority of individuals working in the medical and related health care professions are in it to do the right thing.  Which is to make a lot of money.  Right?!!   Isn't profit supposed to be our greatest motive in our lives, as Americans?

I propose that, like most bank tellers and other bank employees whom have no idea as to the true nature of the business in which they are, health care and insurance industries employees are in a similar position.  They are just doing their jobs.  I bet most bankers don't even know the Fed is not part of our supposed government.  I also bet that most health care practitioners don't know that their fundamental business model is to make a big fat, enormous profit off of other individual's grief and health misfortunes, which shockingly, other business aspects of this for huge profit venture, actually promote behaviors that lead to the imbalance of the human bodies health.   I so don't blame the workers.  They get sick and die just like all the rest of us anyway.

Educating ourselves and others on the truths of the insipid roots of our financial systems, in which this site is so involved,  is just as important as helping ourselves and others understand our relationship and responsibilities for our own health.  This is our bodies I'm talking about here.  How come we, in general, haven't been taught on how to keep ourselves from having to get into this so called civilized health care system in the first place.  And because the "money" we're talking about is also enormous, just like our appetite for fast food American style.  The real "fast" aspect of it is that it will lead persons to a "fast" death.  

Anyway, what I really wanted to provide was a link to a "debunking" of all the criticisms that are being leveled at the bill.  So here:

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2009/07/deconstructing-the-right-wing-lies-health-bill.html#more

Broadspectrum  

VeganD's picture
VeganD
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 18 2008
Posts: 636
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

I am looking at page 430 lines 9 through 17. If I am understanding this correctly, a nurse practitioner, physician assistant or physician can sign a DNR order which would allow a facility to deny me transport to a medical facility and withhold FOOD and FLUIDS and antibiotics.  I assume they could only do this if I could not decide for myself and had no family.

The decision to starve and dehydrate a patient should be taken with the utmost care, it is potentially a cruel practice. I hope someone can clarify this particular point better.

Tough to translate but an interesting read.

D

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hey Denise: I read that in the raw government report last night (very early this morning). I have the same questions. This particular way of passing hits too close to home, I tried to decipher the living will section and had more quesitons there. Toss in the right to have all personal records and the ability to debit an account (something I despise with any company given the errors I have seen and the time to correct them) and this bill is beyond me - even if there was no impact on the deficit. Take care.

mantis308's picture
mantis308
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 15 2009
Posts: 4
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Davos:

I do not question your dedication here. You asked for specifics, and I realize you are probably done debating this. But...

I have a difficult time believing that anyone has actually compared these inflammatory remarks to what is in that actual bill. While I disagree with the cost and implications of the bill and the constituionality of it, these so called "independent analysis" is clearly designed to be inflamatory.

Examples from Davos quotes:

PG 425 Lines 4-12
Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consultant. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19
Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3
Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24
Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9
An “adanced care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patient’s health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12
“advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 -
The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 

The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life 

All of these refer to "end of life". This is NOT the terminology in the bill, in fact it's the exact opposite. Let's cherry pick here, PG 429 Lines 13-25 "The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.". Here is what this ACTUALLY says (bolded emphasis mine)

(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
the treatment of that individual that—
(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de-
fined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care
professional (as specified by the Secretary and who
is acting within the scope of the professional’s au-
thority under State law in signing such an order, in-
cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant)
and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in-
dividual and be followed by health care professionals
and providers across the continuum of care;

Let's read the next 3 paragraphs too:

(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s
preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in-
cluding an indication of the treatment and care de-
sired by the individual;

(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized
within a given locality, region, or State (as identified
by the Secretary); and
(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as
defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the in-
dividual.

In case you are unaware, this is standard practice, and has been for at least 20 years! Nothing is unusal here. The patient has a right to refuse any and all life saving treatment with an advance directive! This stuff is not giving the doctors or bureaucrats the authorization to terminate your life.

I realize this is a socialist/facist piece of garbage legislation, but we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard here. Fear mongering this bill by twisting the language (ie: changing life sustaining to life ending), using inflamatory language, and intentially picking out undecypherable legalese to confuse the readers... these are bad tactics. Let's quit copying and pasting from obviously slanted blogs and do our own analysis.

Mr. Fri's picture
Mr. Fri
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 21 2009
Posts: 208
On the lighter side...

Sorry to ruin the flow of things in this health care debate but perhaps y'all could use a break and have a good laugh.  The Comedy Central report on Tim Geithner was one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time.  If you missed it on the funnies page you can also find it here.

URL

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-29-2009/home-crisis-investiga...

Cheers!

Headless's picture
Headless
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 28 2008
Posts: 363
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Re: Healthcare a a single-payer plan:

One thing that should be kept in mind is: Who are these people that come to websites and vehemently oppose creating a system of caring for All Mothers, Fathers, Sons and Daughters? Do you think that those who have vested interests in the corporate status quo adhere to  some fiercely guarded moral integrity and corporate policy that warns of harsh consequences for any propagandazizing for the purposes of maintaining said grotesquely profitable status quo? Can you even imagine that there aren't healthcare plants here that are here for one sole reason: to kill your family so they can a bigger house and a fresh-water shower on their yachts? Do you really believe we're having a conversation here among concerned community citizens who are informed about, intimate with, and care about the human beings amongst whom they live? Are these anti-empathists just simply ignorant? Stupid? Without logical processes?

As a cancer survivor who has paid Cobra; as a citizen of America who became a self-appointed ambassador to 6 other countries (as a teacher), all of which have universal health care which requires no payments and no worry,  three of which I relied exculsively upon for minor and major illnesses and accidents, the results of which convinced me, with not the  slightest doubt, that America, that place we call Our Country, has become the refuge of the most heinous criminal collective to ever exist since the beginning of time, aka, Government Sachs and the healthcare mafiosa (politicians and their birthers), I, for one, find those who, here on this blog, come up with canned arguments against single-payer or less reasonable--though still far more fair and effective--systems of serving the needs of those who will be afflicted as Mother Nature decides, simply uncivilized heathens that deserve the shallow lives they must be living as they sit in their slightly larger houses and wonder at their own greatness while the needy sit wherever they endure (their untreated physical pains and mental anguish) while wishing they had been born in a more civilized country such as...North Korea.

Keith Olbermann on the heathen antisocial greedopaths: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/03/olbermann-slams-members-o_n_250580.html

P.S. A challenge to those of you who would kill US to provide a more "impressive" material existence to your shallow guests: Get out of the house and watch a child die of a perfectly treatable disease because her parents were too inimidated to seek health care they couldn't afford when it would have done some good, and come back and tell US all about your fabulous ideas for making America a better place!

fujisan's picture
fujisan
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 5 2008
Posts: 296
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Jeremy Leggett: Another crunch is coming – but will the world act? - Commentators, Opinion - The Independent

There is one major similarity between the energy crisis and the financial crisis and one main difference. These two things tell us a lot about the role of cultures in how our modern version of capitalism plays out.

The similarity is that we are dealing with two massive global industries who have their asset assessment systemically, and roundly, wrong. The difference is that few people and organisations warned about the credit crunch as it approached, where as with the oil crunch, a host of people – many in and around the oil industry – are shouting a warning, and so to are a few good organisations concerned companies span British industry.
...

fujisan's picture
fujisan
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 5 2008
Posts: 296
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Association of American Railroads

Rail Time Indicators

SUMMARY FOR JUNE 2009

Economic Indicator Most Recent Data

U.S. Freight Rail Traffic (p. 1) ↓ 19.5% (carloads), ↓ 18.2% (intermodal) in June 2009 from
June 2008.
Canadian Freight Rail Traffic (p. 1) ↓ 25.8% (carloads), ↓ 19.2% (intermodal) in June 2009 from
June 2008.

...

Several charts and indicators per product...

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

I think you might want to look at that closer, I'm in agreement with Jim Puplava's audio on this one. Secondly I have a serious issue with the bank debits and the right to all information, personal included.

cat233's picture
cat233
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 20 2008
Posts: 575
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Headless wrote:

... I, for one, find those who, here on this blog, come up with canned arguments against single-payer or less reasonable--though still far more fair and effective--systems of serving the needs of those who will be afflicted as Mother Nature decides, simply uncivilized heathens that deserve the shallow lives they must be living as they sit in their slightly larger houses and wonder at their own greatness while the needy sit wherever they endure (their untreated physical pains and mental anguish) while wishing they had been born in a more civilized country such as...North Korea.

Keith Olbermann on the heathen antisocial greedopaths: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/03/olbermann-slams-members-o_n_250580.html

P.S. A challenge to those of you who would kill US to provide a more "impressive" material existence to your shallow guests: Get out of the house and watch a child die of a perfectly treatable disease because her parents were too inimidated to seek health care they couldn't afford when it would have done some good, and come back and tell US all about your fabulous ideas for making America a better place!

Headless,

It doesn't sound as if you were finished with your thoughts.  I felt like I was waiting for the next page to hear more....

Your words give us all a lot to think about... How to take on the likes of GS and friends, I have yet to figure out.

BTW, some of us out here do have a heart and actually use it.

Cat

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Hello Headless:

I'm not sure how to take that post?

From my point of view: 

  1. Not happy with current system
  2. Think it should be fixed
  3. Think everyone should get treatment

That said:

  1. I don't think this should be another Patriot Act snatch of what is left of our rights
  2. What has the government administered well before? The Socaial Security Trust Fund? Meidcare? Medicaide? TARP? TALP? PPPIP? Budget? Deficit?
  3. What have they estimated well? GDP? Inflation? CPI? Recovery? Budgets? War costs?
  4. I don't think they have ANY business dictating course of treatment

Al Bartlett says that our solutions create more problems. Bad is bad, it stinks but worse isn't better, and frankly issueing a end of life order sounds more like Obermans mention of North Koria than the USA.

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: 1.6 Trillion Dollar Health Care Plan to ...

Hello Broadsprectrum:

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

No, it says everyone who opts into the public insurance system MAY be issued a health identification card,

I'm reading through that link. I'm sure the ones I read and posted have bias but this one does also. There is NO choice. I can't dump Bluue Cross Blue Shield and sign up with Aetna. Any change means going from what you had to the governments plan.

That isn't aan "Opt"

Denny Johnson's picture
Denny Johnson
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 13 2008
Posts: 324
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

dave s wrote:

Despite the lack of popularity, isn't it pretty much understood that health care rationing is necessary if costs are to be controlled?  And isn't health care already rationed, at least by customer if not by kind?  And rationing doesn't need to mean that those willing/able to pay more cannot have better access to other kinds of care (that is just capitalism at work, right?).

It seems to me what is really missing is meaningful tort reform, to remove much of the basis for over-testing and over-treating. 

Thanks Dave...........one of the best posts to today's digest.

truenorth's picture
truenorth
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 1 2009
Posts: 21
Health Care in Canada

Back to the Health Care bill.

You folks can analyze and wring your sweaty hands all you want, but the truth is that the United States can't afford the healthcare system you currently have.  As Chris has pinted out again and again, Medicare will soon swamp the US government revenues. 

I live in Canada and we have a government run health care system.  Here's a Wikipedia article that compares the two systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_c...

I'm healthy and haven't used the system very much, but members of my family have been quickly and effectively treated in our hospital.  There's always complainers, but I would say that the majority of Canadians like our system and are glad to have it.  Our administration costs are way lower and our medical community works hard to deliver service.  Sure it's rationed, but that's better than brankrupt.

joemanc's picture
joemanc
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 16 2008
Posts: 834
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Davos wrote:

From my point of view: 

  1. Not happy with current system
  2. Think it should be fixed
  3. Think everyone should get treatment

That said:

  1. I don't think this should be another Patriot Act snatch of what is left of our rights
  2. What has the government administered well before? The Social Security Trust Fund? Meidcare? Medicaide? TARP? TALP? PPPIP? Budget? Deficit?
  3. What have they estimated well? GDP? Inflation? CPI? Recovery? Budgets? War costs?
  4. I don't think they have ANY business dictating course of treatment

Well said Davos. The government can't even administer Cash for Clunkers and they are going to run Healthcare?

And I will add 1 more thing. Why are members of Congress exempted from the Health Care Bill? What makes THEM so special?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124536864955329439.html

I guess one also might ask why members of Congress are exempted from participating in Social Security as well?

joemanc's picture
joemanc
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 16 2008
Posts: 834
Re: Health Care in Canada

truenorth wrote:

Our administration costs are way lower and our medical community works hard to deliver service.  Sure it's rationed, but that's better than brankrupt.

I'll say it's rationed! True story - last September I was in Montreal at my relative's house. Just down the street, a bicyclist fell off his bike, and knocked himself out, and was on the ground bleeding. A neighbor called for an ambulance. It took 45 minutes for an ambulance to arrive. The nearest hospital is oh, 1000 feet away. The hospital building is visible so I am guesstimating distance. And then, WAIT, they didn't take the poor guy to that hospital, they took him to another hospital a couple of miles away!

Moral of the story, at least my story, is every healthcare plan/system has it's flaws, nothing is or ever will be perfect. The best medicine is to eat and stay healthy and try not get sick or injured.

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 2764
Re: Daily Digest - August 3

Thank you Headless and truenorth

for bringing another perspective to this repetition of right wing talking points.

I'm not advocating the current bills in Congress, I don't know enough about them to make a judgment at the moment.  But, the need of serious health care reform cannot be denied.  It really is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  And, I understand why a single payer plan isn't more prominent in the debate, although it is regularly brought up by brave citizens at virtually every "town hall meeting" attended by politicians.  As Olberman emphatically pointed out, our gov't is bought off by the health rationing industry.

I urge you all to ask yourselves why virtually every other advanced country has some form of socialized medicine, and not one has chosen to adopt a system like ours.  As truenorth points out, the citizens of those countries like their systems.  Oh, did I mention that those systems are also cheaper and involve a lot...a lot... less red tape than ours?  And, yes, they have those gov't issued cards that threaten their liberty.  They present the card when they enter a medical establishment and no further paperwork is necessary to ensure they are entitled to health care.  Now, that's evil. 

Oh, btw, Jim Puplava has been known to play fast and loose with facts.  He is as motivated by ideology as anyone.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments