Daily Digest

Daily Digest 12/29 - Treasuries Are Not An Option, Ec. Collapse Worries, New Energy Lifting Local Economies, But At What Cost?

Thursday, December 29, 2011, 11:57 AM
  • Gonzalo Lira: A Run On The Global Banking System - How Close Are We?
  • Treasuries Are Not An Option
  • MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA
  • What Worries Us Most: Economic Collapse
  • Bill Gross: Low Rates Doing More Harm Than Good
  • In North Dakota, A Great Divide Over Oil Riches
  • With Gas Drilling Next Door, County in New York Gets an Economic Lift
  • The Benefits of Shale Gas Far Outweigh the Negatives of Fracking
  • Potential Neuropoison Could Be In Our Food
  • Just How Harmful Are Bisphenol A Plastics?
  • Bacteria 1, FDA 0

Our 'What Should I Do?' guide has steps to cook, see & stay warm in times of power outage

Economy

Gonzalo Lira: A Run On The Global Banking System - How Close Are We? (June C.)

My own sense is, this is the first tremor of the earthquake that’s coming to the global financial system. And how the central banks and financial regulators treated the “Systemically Important Financial Institutions” that had exposure to MF Global—to the detriment of the ordinary, blameless customer who got royally ripped off in its bankruptcy—is both the template of how the next financial crisis will be handled, and an accelerator that will make the next crisis happen that much sooner.

Treasuries Are Not An Option (Ilene)

The problem is some corners of the market think the Fed's tools are losing their punch. The financial system is already flush with money from the bank's previous easing programs, and analysts argue that the Fed's extra money is increasingly less useful. Borrowing costs, for instance, are at all-time lows and yet many investors aren't taking advantage. If Operation Twist isn't enough to get us through 2012 - what's going to be left in the Fed's tool belt once the Global panic into Dollars begins to subside?

MF Global chief missing $1.2B is financial adviser to EPA (June C.)

Even as he finds himself the public face of a bankruptcy and admitted to lawmakers that he had no idea how client funds disappeared, Congress and the administration have voiced no public concern about Mr. Abelow’s role advising the $8.6 billion government agency on its finances.

What Worries Us Most: Economic Collapse (Jeff B.)

Market research firm Leiflin Inc. asked the question on behalf of the EcoHealth Alliance, a conservation group that also works on global disease issues. One-third of the people surveyed said a global disease outbreak was one of their top three worries.

The poll of about 1,000 Americans, conducted this fall, had a margin of error of 3 percent.

Bill Gross: Low Rates Doing More Harm Than Good (David B.)

ank of America (NYSE:BAC) has been the “dog” of the Dow Jones Average, down almost 60% for the year, despite billions from Warren Buffett.

Exchange-traded funds for the banking industry are all off, too, including SPDR KBW Bank ETF (NYSEARCA:KBE) and non-traded indices like KBW European Large Cap Banks.

Energy

In North Dakota, A Great Divide Over Oil Riches (jdargis)

No other county in the state has had a bigger jump in the number of households earning more than $100,000, which spiked to 21 percent from 6 percent during the last decade, according to an analysis of census data. But much like the crude below, the benefits have spread unevenly, often as a result of decisions made long ago.

With Gas Drilling Next Door, County in New York Gets an Economic Lift (jdargis)

This new base of customers — workers from Oklahoma, Texas and other parts of the country with long experience in drilling natural gas wells — are drawn to the region by jobs just across the state border in rural Pennsylvania, where a kind of drilling known as horizontal hydraulic fracturing, or hydrofracking, has vastly expanded over the last two years.

The Benefits of Shale Gas Far Outweigh the Negatives of Fracking (James S.)

Some may say the facts are generated by insidious conspirators, be it Big Oil, government officials, the commercial sector and the scientific community, who have a vested interest in hiding the truth. To some degree this may be a valid statement. But, as will be seen later in this discussion, there are some reputable, independent and impartial studies that can be used to understand the truth.

Environment

Potential Neuropoison Could Be In Our Food (Chris M.)

By the late 1990s, trace amounts of PBDEs had been found in people all over the world, with the highest exposures measured in the United States. Researchers became nervous: Low doses caused neurological damage in laboratory animals, and the highest human PBDE levels were found in breast milk.

Just How Harmful Are Bisphenol A Plastics? (Chris M.)

A single breach in protocol had turned the rodents’ safe environs into acutely toxic habitats. A maintenance worker had used an abrasive floor cleaner, instead of the usual mild detergent, to wash out cages and water bottles. The acidic solution scarred the hard, polycarbonate surface of the plastic and enabled a single chemical culprit to leach out—bisphenol A (BPA).

Bacteria 1, FDA 0 (Mike K.)

A study earlier this year by a nonprofit research center in Phoenix analyzed 80 brands of beef, pork, chicken and turkey from five cities and found that 47 percent contained staphylococcus aureus, a bacteria that can cause anything from minor skin infections to pneumonia and sepsis, more technically called systemic inflammatory response syndrome (SIRS), and commonly known as blood poisoning — but no matter what you call it, plenty scary. Of those bacteria, 52 percent were resistant to at least three classes of antibiotics. So when you go to the supermarket to buy one of these brands of pre-ground meat products, there’s a roughly 25 percent chance you’ll consume a potentially fatal bacteria that doesn’t respond to commonly prescribed drugs.

Article suggestions for the Daily Digest can be sent to dd@PeakProsperity.com. All suggestions are filtered by the Daily Digest team and preference is given to those that are in alignment with the message of the Crash Course and the "3 Es."

28 Comments

saxplayer00o1's picture
saxplayer00o1
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 30 2009
Posts: 2652
britinbe's picture
britinbe
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 381
Greek children being left with social services

I just listened to an article and interview on BBC Radio 5 about Greek children being left with social services because parents can't afford to look after them as a result of the austerity measures. The article spoke about 100s if not 1000s. I have yet to see a link to a specific article but the presenters did interview someone from a Greek charity who confirmed they were helping families in extremely difficult situations.

V tragic

wroth5's picture
wroth5
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 16 2008
Posts: 21
isnt this pm crash fun? Oh

isnt this pm crash fun? Oh well....

JohnGaltIII's picture
JohnGaltIII
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 6 2011
Posts: 5
bisphenol - the real threat is cash register receipts

The amount of bisphenol coming from epoxy can linings (basically all steel cans) and polycarbonate plasticware (water bottles, etc) is incidental compared to the amount that can be received from thermal printer paper. See for example:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2009/12/bpa-in-thermal-printer-i...

see also:
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/bisphenol-a-linked-to-di...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332699/

this has too much hype, but makes some good points:
http://www.thehalsreport.com/2011/01/is-something-wrong-with-the-sexual-...

I don't have my notes handy on the PBDE links, but it is pretty dark. Especially for adult males. If I can find them, I'll post later.

JohnGaltIII's picture
JohnGaltIII
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 6 2011
Posts: 5
it probably is a buying opportunity...

The time horizon to the next peak in the PM market may be 2 to 3 years out.

We can look back and see peaks in 2004 ($430 -> $372), 2006 ($730 -> $560), 2008 ($1030 -> $690) and 2011 ($1900 -> ?). The most serious two of these were about 28% for gold and in the 50% range for silver. A lot more were 15% for gold. Anything can happen, but some things are more likely than others. A 28% correction from $1900 would take us back to $1377. Marc Faber said that the most likely bottom is around $1400, but $1100 is an outside possibility.

there was a timely warning
http://www.peakprosperity.com/martensonreport/coming-rout

rjs's picture
rjs
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 8 2009
Posts: 376
britinbe wrote:  I just

britinbe wrote:

I just listened to an article and interview on BBC Radio 5 about Greek children being left with social services because parents can't afford to look after them as a result of the austerity measures. The article spoke about 100s if not 1000s. I have yet to see a link to a specific article but the presenters did interview someone from a Greek charity who confirmed they were helping families in extremely difficult situations.

V tragic

thats what imposed austerity will do for a country...the beatings will continue until morale improves...

Greek Hospitals Have Turned Away Expectant Mothers Who Can't Pay -- Elli Zachariadou could not hide her shock a few weeks ago when she heard reports about women having to pay at least €900 up front in order to give birth at public hospitals. Even more shocking to Zachariadou and other Greeks was the news that a number of hospitals had turned away pregnant women because they did not have the necessary cash. “My immediate thought on hearing about the hospital charges was, how am I going to have this baby?” Zachariadou said. “You know, €900 is about three months’ rent. It’s not the kind of money we have lying around.” In years gone by, the 33-year-old Athenian’s social-security fund would have picked up most of her hospital bill, but she has joined the growing ranks of Greece’s long-term unemployed who have no such coverage.

Robert Percival's picture
Robert Percival
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 9 2010
Posts: 1
rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1271
Austerity is the result, not the problem...

rjs wrote:

thats what imposed austerity will do for a country...the beatings will continue until morale improves...

The problem is people blame the austerity for the problems, and it's not.  It's the correction for the years of over promises by politicians.  It's the years of not taking responsibility for ones self.   It's the years of relying on government and others for your needs.  It's the years of over consumption.

Austerity is not the problem, it's the result of poor choices.  However, I will give you the "imposed" part, Greece (and others) should default, that way the austerity would actually result in corrective actions being taken.  For now it simply means only part of the population (the non-bankers) will have to correct their expectations and behavior.

Article wrote:

“My immediate thought on hearing about the hospital charges was, how am I going to have this baby?” Zachariadou said. “You know, €900 is about three months’ rent. It’s not the kind of money we have lying around.”

While it may seem heartless, if you can't afford this type of charge, you shouldn't be having a child.  €900 is piddly compared to the cost of raising a child.  It's this expectation that you can have a child but force the rest of society to pay for it that's the problem.  If you can't afford to pay for all the expected costs, and have a little extra for insurance to cover the catestopic/unexpected costs, then you should not be having children.  The state should only be a backstop for rare/unusual cases.

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Rant

Ugh, the Greek parents with the 10 kids... Already on state assistance years before this debt crisis hit...

Just on Tuesday, my wife and I took our toddlers to visit an old friend of hers.

This friend of hers is on welfare - just can't keep even the part-time jobs she does get (pet store, Game Stop, Walmart). She was last fired from Walmart for tardiness and absenteeism and refusing to write a mandatory letter on why it is important to arrive at work on time. So she was on state assistance, on food stamps, state health insurance, and now she is also on WIC, as she just gave birth to a son. All the medical bills were paid for by the state.

A month ago, she bought an Xbox on Black Friday rather than buy a safer infant car seat or save money for her child's future needs. Maybe it's all gravy because she's been living rent free with her grandmother the past several years.

The father of the baby still works at Walmart making a single digit hourly wage. Of course the two of them won't get married - that would likely cut down on the amount of benefits she gets as a single mother. She had broken up with him after she revealed to him that she was pregnant, hooked up with two others, and only later go back together with him shortly before the baby was born. For the sake of the baby.

Talk about losers.

To think, so many hard-working people pay taxes for this person and others like her to have health care benefits and spending money when they themselves can't afford to have health insurance for themselves or their families. Hard-working people who are delaying having children of their own, or having fewer children than they would like, or making sacrifices to make ends meet - all to financially support irresponsible parents like her.

Or maybe we are the losers for funding the system she is exploiting. After all, getting society to pay for your kids has been a viable reproductive strategy for quite some time...

Poet

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1271
Quite the rant....

Poet wrote:

To think, so many hard-working people pay taxes for this person and others like her to have health care benefits and spending money when they themselves can't afford to have health insurance for themselves or their families. Hard-working people who are delaying having children of their own, or having fewer children than they would like, or making sacrifices to make ends meet - all to financially support irresponsible parents like her.

Or maybe we are the losers for funding the system she is exploiting.
 

Wow Poet, you may become a Libertarian yet!

Most humans have compassion and want to help those in need.  The problem is when it becomes a state issue and no longer voluntary.  It means the individual no longer has the ability to tell someone they are a bum and need to get a clue.  Instead the state through it's forced redistribution encourages bad behavior, and not wanting to be "discriminatory" won't cut off off those that refuse to take responsibility.  Unfortunately that responsibility also includes children. 

I think the question becomes, what do we do to extricate ourselves from this situation? Do you eventually have to just let parents have responsibility (bad or good outcome?).  Do you take children away from the parents to be wards of the state?  What if they have more?  Lot's of very difficult questions and certainly no easy answers in a world of declining resources...

rjs's picture
rjs
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 8 2009
Posts: 376
conservative austerity is producing results in the UK, too
 
Family household income falls 8pc this year - Telegraph: The latest Asda Income Tracker showed that the average family lives on just £161 a week. Inflation may have showed signs of easing but family budgets continued to be squeezed thanks to higher energy and transport costs. The latest Asda Income Tracker has revealed that family spending power fell by £15 a week in November 2011, leaving the average UK family with £161 of weekly disposable income – 8.4 per cent down from this time last year. Annual growth in the cost of basics decreased to 5 per cent in November but budgets continue to be squeezed by the rising costs of running a family home. In October, gas prices were some 25.3 per cent higher than a year ago, while electricity prices grew by 15.5 per cent, Asda said. Transport costs continue to put pressure on the inflation rate too, with the cost of getting around remaining a large driver of the headline rate of CPI inflation. Figures from the AA show the cost of unleaded petrol grew by 12.3 per cent over the year to November, while diesel prices increased by 14.6 per cent during the same period.
NHS private income cap to be lifted - Health service reforms will pave the way for NHS hospitals to earn up to half of their income from private work, it was reported today. The current cap on income generated from private patients is typically limited to just a few percent but is set to rise to 49% in a move slipped out by the Government last week, according to The Times. It is expected to cause more friction within the coalition with a senior Liberal Democrat warning that it was part of an ideological drive that many in the party would oppose, the newspaper said. Labour claimed the plans showed Prime Minister David Cameron was determined to mirror health care provision operated in the United States of America. Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham told the newspaper: "This surprise move, sneaked out just before Christmas, is the clearest sign yet of David Cameron's determination to turn our precious NHS into a US-style commercial system, where hospitals are more interested in profits than people. 
 
 
 
thc0655's picture
thc0655
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 27 2010
Posts: 575
What to do...

Well, rhare I'm sure there are solutions, some "better" than others. And I do agree with you on the fundamental nature of the problems. I, for one, don't feel comfortable blaming it all on the politicians since "we the people" simply won't let them fix it.  We the people keep choosing every day to just let the train run into the wall and see what we can make of the result. I guess we'll sort it out eventually but at an unnecessarily high cost.  We're making it harder than it has to be.  I can't wait to see who "we" elect President (and to the House and Senate) as that will provide a window into where most of our heads/hearts are.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Austerity is the result, not the problem...

rhare wrote:

Austerity is not the problem, it's the result of poor choices.  However, I will give you the "imposed" part, Greece (and others) should default, that way the austerity would actually result in corrective actions being taken.  For now it simply means only part of the population (the non-bankers) will have to correct their expectations and behavior.

I know you hate governments rhare, and I know things may well be quite different here in Australia, but I fail to see how you can blame governments for what we the idiots have done..... yours truly excluded of course, we have been on austerity measures for YEARS!!

ALL that excess was sold to us by Corporations employing advertising and marketing.  They're so clever at it, they sucked everybody in, not least those who could not afford the stuff they were selling.  EVEN THE BANKS were at it!  Selling credit by junk mail.  We have one $3000 credit card.  That must surely set some sort of record, no?  And we only use it for cash flow, because AFAIC the banks are evil and running on snake oil.......

And regarding "It's the years of over consumption", I don't see YOU underconsuming.....

And one other thing.  Austerity WILL become a problem, because the economy cannot run on austerity, and it will cause it to tank.

Mike

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
what to do...

When you find yourself trapped, essentially that is a predicament. And getting trapped happens because you didn't see the trap, that is a fundamental part of getting trapped. You might have seen dangers, but told yourself lies, told yourself that you could deal with those dangers easily. You might do that because because the bait of the trap was so tempting. Whatever the situation was, you didn't see it properly. So your immediate reaction on getting trapped is naturally confusion - how did this happen? What did I miss here? And with a simple trap, it might be immediately obvious what you got wrong, but with more complex traps you might remain confused. You look at the whole thing in bewilderment, it might seem far too complex to understand. That is the basic attitude I'm getting from this thread.....

And if one remains confused, obviously one will probably remain trapped. If you can figure out the trap, you still might not get out of it. But if you understand it, you might then see it is actually a problem and not a predicament. If lucky, you get out without any damage, or if not so lucky you might get out by sacrificing something. You might have to sacrifice quite a lot to get out.....

All this is really common sense, right? But I lay it out because I think it is important to remember such basic things about traps, and the hopelessness we're discussing here is really not completely called for. People have to quickly get over feelings of panic and look at the situation with calmer eyes, try to understand the nature of this trap.

And of course that is easy for me to say because I don't think the trap is terribly complex. It was a very predictable trap, a trap people have gotten into many times in the last 4 or 5 thousand years.... They have probably always thought they were too smart to get caught like that each time it happened. The bait of the trap is technology and techniques allowing more to be taken from nature,and the greater amount of reproduction that allows. More powerful technology, combined with sex and babies, most humans are moths to those flames. Add in stuff like alliances and social structures made with people who hold a lot of fundamentally different beliefs about reality, but money can be used to create very large societies of strangers that sort of work as long as times are good, and you have a great trap. Unstable social structures, resources used unsustainably, people telling themselves lies about the likely eventual consequences of the whole thing, and there it is.

I see a chance of getting out of this trap, but it is very likely going to involve quite a bit of very painful sacrifice. People who can't look at this thing without flinching, who cannot accept that they may need to do the metaphoric equivalent of cutting off a limb to get free, won't get free. To give up the stuff that got you into this trap, the status, money, technology,
property, family and friends that might not understand what is going on, all those kinds of things are the bait and bars of this trap. As below, for some people these will be things they cannot consider doing away with. But in being unable to do that, they logically do away with themselves, as well. Loving things or people that are logically doomed, makes little sense. As I've often written, you can't love a corpse, and especially not if you are also a corpse. You do the best you can to convince people you love, but at some point if they don't get it, you have to leave them or die with them. Of course, there are those that are sure that there is life after death and they could be severely punished for leaving people behind. I don't believe in such things, and I'd have a problem with a God who punished people for being logical about dangers. If
such a God exists I'll be in trouble, but I'm really not worried about it. The laws of nature are "God", to me, and the laws of nature are inherently about being logical. They are the basis of logic. I think people have very strongly wanted to believe a lot of BS and if they can't stop soon enough, it will be the end of them. Evolution in action, the fit survive, and the fit are logical.

I recognize that it is a lot easier to say such things than it is to do them. Leaving these kinds of things and people behind is very painful, I know this without doubt, because I've done it. Having done it, though, I also know it is possible. Like I've said here so many times, I saw this coming a very long time ago....

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Sheesh, Rhare.

Hello, Rhare. Did you forget that I told you that I both donated to and voted for Ron Paul back in 2008 and I'm for Ron Paul again in 2012?

Hello?!? Haven't I myself written here before that Social Security and Medicare are Ponzi schemes where the young pay for the old who never pay in enough (and in the case of Medicare, the average retiree takes out TEN TIMES what they ever put in)? And now the young will be left holding the bag? Sheesh.

However, I don't trust corporations just like I don't trust government. That's where you and I differ.

That said, let's look back at this friend of my wife's, for example. I think the government should phase out the free welfare and health care, phase out food stamps, etc. For example, let's say they receive benefits and won't lose them if they find a low wage job. But they get $10 less every month, until it dwindles to nothing. We know from studies at MIT and Princeton that people in their last month of unemployment often quickly find a job - just not the as good as the ones they were holding out for. But hey, a job is a job, and it gets people productive again.

Encouraging that effort leaves a much smaller group of people who may be chronically unemployed or unemployable - a smaller number that a less prosperous America can then afford to take care at a minimum level, if necessary. If someone wants work, the government CAN give them work to earn those bare minimum benefits: sweep streets (do we need massive sweeper trucks running on diesel?), pick up trash with a "grabber", collect fallen branches, cut fire breaks, patrol National Forests, shovel snow, paint over graffiti, mow lawns, etc.

What of the innocent children? Do they get free help? Or does that mean encouraging adoptions, enforcing paternity tests, and having mandatory paternal wage garnishments? What if the father works under the table or is in prison? What about food stamp reforms so soda and Cheetos can't be purchased with a SNAP card?. Well, that's a debate America is going to have to have, because we can't keep borrowing to pay both state retirement pensions and health care, and pay out social welfare. Soon, no one will want to lend to us and we'll have to print.

FYI, I think I got misquoted in a previous comment. Something attributed to me was actually written by you, Rhare: "I think the question becomes, what do we do to extricate ourselves from this situation? Do you eventually have to just let parents have responsibility (bad or good outcome?).  Do you take children away from the parents to be wards of the state?  What if they have more?  Lot's of very difficult questions and certainly no easy answers in a world of declining resources..."

Poet

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Productivity?

Poet wrote:
This friend of my wife's, for example. I think the government should phase out the free welfare and health care, phase out food stamps, etc. For example, let's say they receive benefits and won't lose them if they find a low wage job. But they get $10 less every month, until it dwindles to nothing. We know from studies at MIT and Princeton that people in their last month of unemployment often quickly find a job - just not the as good as the ones they were holding out for. But hey, a job is a job, and it gets people productive again.

Hi Poet, I'd like to challenge these ideas of yours....  There are only so many jobs available, like 1 for every 100 unemployed person, so I doubt ALL people who suddenly run out of SS find ANY jobs.... I suspect they would turn to crime myself.

And "productive"?  Doing what?  More unsustainable crap that has no future?

We have to reboot the system altogether, and the meaning of productivity needs complete redefinition.

Until the system is completely changed, nothing worthwhile will happen, we're just pissing into the wind.

Mike

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1840
Predicament

Damnthematrix wrote:

Hi Poet, I'd like to challenge these ideas of yours....  There are only so many jobs available, like 1 for every 100 unemployed person, so I doubt ALL people who suddenly run out of SS find ANY jobs.... I suspect they would turn to crime myself.

And "productive"?  Doing what?  More unsustainable crap that has no future?

We have to reboot the system altogether, and the meaning of productivity needs complete redefinition.

Until the system is completely changed, nothing worthwhile will happen, we're just pissing into the wind.

Mike

If what you are saying is right, it seems we are stuck between giving jobless people money and resources to live and reproduce, or not giving jobless people money and resources and they'll either die off or resort to crime. We are definitely in a predicament and need to find new ways.

Poet

butterflywoman's picture
butterflywoman
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2010
Posts: 44
mike and poet the grading

mike and poet

the grading curve used to go something like this, the intelligence  bell curve.

3% A's

10 % B's

74% C's

10% D's

3 % E's

if you got A's .,then be thankful and use your intelligence to realize that if you are smarter than 97% of the poplation , yeah, hey, you are going to be frustrated once in a while with their choices

same for all you B folks who are smarter and blessed more than 87% of folks

life deals out the cards not you and your "hard earned" smarts.

be thankful the 87% haven't banded together and decided to take your pm's and what have you.

food stamps and welfare keep the peace to a point. so let it and no, with all the printing, you are not paying for it....the printing press is.and the printing is keeping you afloat too...so be it.

of course maybe we are having an upper  C discussion here.

until we all realize we are all people who hurt ,laugh and bleed the same..

well i hope you get where i am going with this.

butterflywoman's picture
butterflywoman
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2010
Posts: 44
3% A's =90-100% correct 10%

3% A's =90-100% correct

10% B's =80-90% correct

74%C's= 70-80% correct

10% D's= 60-70% correct

3% E's = 50-60% correct.

it's strictly math.

all you A"s, B's, C's, D's tell me how the E's, ie,50% of the time being correct ,should be  such a life to throw into austerity. or call even, or desire

when all of you above E's, are floating in excess, given you have extra to invest, means, you made more than you needed to live, ie excess

this isn't about this or that group should take a hit....we have all over indulged, and we all now have to draw back into some sort of living within some sort of renewable life.and as some have said, they have found enjoyment and health in doing so.

13% of the population is the norm......for needing help just  normal distribution.

see this with  grace please.show mercy in your thoughts.

if you can't take civility into the next phase of humankind,.......welll

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1271
How about trust in individuals?

Poet wrote:

However, I don't trust corporations just like I don't trust government. That's where you and I differ.

Except that you are often putting forth things that the government should do!  They are often social welfare type issues that you believe the government can handle better than individuals.  It's not that I trust corporations, it's that I trust people will look out for their own best interest (as long as they are taught they have too). That's where you and I differ.  Individuals looking out for their own best interest via spending habits keep corporations in line.  When they don't that's when government should be involved protecting property rights from abuse by corporations. 

While you say you don't trust the government, you even suggested in the same post about government involvement it what I believe should be left to the market and individuals.

Poet wrote:

If someone wants work, the government CAN give them work to earn those bare minimum benefits: sweep streets (do we need massive sweeper trucks running on diesel?), pick up trash with a "grabber", collect fallen branches, cut fire breaks, patrol National Forests, shovel snow, paint over graffiti, mow lawns, etc.

This is not Libertarian thinking, that is Progressive type thinking.  Why does the government have to be involved?  The only way government "CAN GIVE" work is if it confiscates the fruits of anothers labor to do so. There are lots of individuals and businesses that would hire people if the labor was properly priced.  That price is based on the amount of work available and the number of people capable of performing that work.  It works just as well for manual labor as it does for professionals.  Yet government gets involved and distorts the value of labor.  It artificially inflates the value of manual/unskilled labor in the name of "sharing the wealth". One of the side effects is it reduces the number of jobs available and results in even more people relying on the government.

I agree with Mike here, that having government generate "make work" projects just continues the distortion.  Ever see construction sites in poorer countries?  Residential building uses almost no machinery.  It's all done by hand, why?  It's because if labor is properly priced, it's cheaper to pay wages than to buy the equipment.  Here in the US all effort is made to minimize labor costs.  We move jobs overseas, apply technology, or just do without even with a large unemployed population. Why? Because labor is too expensive.  Government distorts labor, just as it does so many other things.

Damnthematrix wrote:

And regarding "It's the years of over consumption", I don't see YOU underconsuming.....

I did very much early on.  I saved, and worked, and reinvested my labor back into my own company.  I delayed consumption so that I could consume later.  I certainly paid a lot in taxes to help those that choose to over consume could do so due to government largess.  Even then, as butterflywoman points out a large amount of that over consumption have been allowed to occur due to printing and the subsidy US citizens receive from having the worlds reserve currency.  So I have no guilt in the fact that I SAVED and I'm now in a position to use those savings. I also have no guilt in taking advantage of government subsidies (even though I'm adamantly opposed to them) since I view it as getting back a small portion of the taxes I have paid over the years.

Who are you to judge what is acceptable?  I'm sure I could hunt down others who believe you are living quite well.  I would even bet you are living better and consuming more than 80% of the worlds population. I would even go so far as to guess that you and I are much closer in our consumption habits than we are different when viewed against the range of consumption around the world.

buterflywoman wrote:

so let it and no, with all the printing, you are not paying for it....the printing press is.and the printing is keeping you afloat too.

Printing does mean we are paying for, it's just a hidden tax via inflation.  And unfortunately the poorer you are the higher the tax via inflation since the less well off generally have fewer ways to protect themselves from an inflationary environment.  The farther removed you are from the money being printed, the less benefit you receive.  It's why bankers and governments do the best in inflationary environments because they have access to the money first, before it's had time to cause increased prices.

And yes Poet, I'm guessing thc0655 had some misplaced tags that showed my text as belonging to you, since it showed his text attributed to me.

guardia's picture
guardia
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 26 2009
Posts: 592
Brave New World

Someone here has read Brave New World

Quote:

The two billion citizens of the World State constitute a eusocial consumer society whose individuals are produced in hatcheries by application of "Bokanovsky's"[1] and other techniques to the hatchery line to produce the five classes or castes, α β, γ, δ and ε (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and epsilon, respectively).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_State

butterflywoman wrote:

mike and poet

the grading curve used to go something like this, the intelligence  bell curve.

3% A's

10 % B's

74% C's

10% D's

3 % E's

if you got A's .,then be thankful and use your intelligence to realize that if you are smarter than 97% of the poplation , yeah, hey, you are going to be frustrated once in a while with their choices

same for all you B folks who are smarter and blessed more than 87% of folks

life deals out the cards not you and your "hard earned" smarts.

be thankful the 87% haven't banded together and decided to take your pm's and what have you.

food stamps and welfare keep the peace to a point. so let it and no, with all the printing, you are not paying for it....the printing press is.and the printing is keeping you afloat too...so be it.

of course maybe we are having an upper  C discussion here.

until we all realize we are all people who hurt ,laugh and bleed the same..

well i hope you get where i am going with this.

yoshhash's picture
yoshhash
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 20 2008
Posts: 271
JohnGaltIII wrote:The amount

JohnGaltIII wrote:
The amount of bisphenol coming from epoxy can linings (basically all steel cans) and polycarbonate plasticware (water bottles, etc) is incidental compared to the amount that can be received from thermal printer paper.

yeah, I'm really angry about this one.  I used to occasionally let them into my compost pile (any paper, really, if i was short on leaves).

yoshhash's picture
yoshhash
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 20 2008
Posts: 271
JohnGaltIII wrote:The amount

edited out- duplicate comment.  don't know how to remove it.

Howard Roark's picture
Howard Roark
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: May 18 2009
Posts: 1
Quite the rant.....

Gents, and the Ladie(s),

I've been a lurker on this site for some 4 years.....It's always one of my daily reads.....It is 'Quite the rant'.....and what makes this site so enjoyable.....thanks for your honest, and intellegent bantor.....the respectable forumn without the usual internet obsenities and garbage......and most of all nourturing a worldwide forumn open to a wide variety of opinions and charactors.....heavy on the charactors.....

Peace be with us all in the coming New Year,

Howard

"Motive is everything. Objectives determine outcomes. Life proceeds out of your intention. Your true intention is revealed in your actions, and your actions are determined by your true intention. As with everything in life, and life itself, it's a circle" - N. Walsh

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Who are you to judge what is acceptable?

rhare wrote:

Damnthematrix wrote:

And regarding "It's the years of over consumption", I don't see YOU underconsuming.....

Who are you to judge what is acceptable?  I'm sure I could hunt down others who believe you are living quite well.  I would even bet you are living better and consuming more than 80% of the worlds population. I would even go so far as to guess that you and I are much closer in our consumption habits than we are different when viewed against the range of consumption around the world.

Point taken.  I am certainly better off than almost anyone living in Africa, or India, or....  But, officially at least, we are considered to be living below the Australian poverty line.  Which I am very proud of, because it shows it can be done without being poor.  Also, as I'm pushing 60, I do have (well I've spent it all now!) accumulated wealth.  Which is more than you can say about most people who only "own" accumulated debt!

We don't live on $1 a day, but you'd have to agree, living on $1 a day in any developed western nation would be, how shall I put it, difficult?!

Mike

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1271
Living expenses...

Damnthematrix wrote:

Which is more than you can say about most people who only "own" accumulated debt!

True - a lot of people have stuff and debt, with no real assets.  I'm not sure about mortgage debt.  It will be interesting to see what happens when things continue to fall and the banks won' foreclose because it's worse for them than just writing off the debt.  We are very close to that in some municipalities.

Damnthematrix wrote:

We don't live on $1 a day, but you'd have to agree, living on $1 a day in any developed western nation would be, how shall I put it, difficult?!

In the US poverty level is at $16/day/person.  The median in the US is $40/day/person. So yes, $1/day would be impossible.

Thomas Hedin's picture
Thomas Hedin
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 28 2009
Posts: 815
living on a dollar

If we actually had some Dollars in circulation, maybe we should try living on them.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments