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Why 2014 Is Beginning to Look A Lot Like 2008

The similarities are stacking up
Wednesday, March 12, 2014, 12:06 PM

Does anything about 2014 remind you of 2008?

For example, the increasing signs of stress in the global financial system, from periphery currencies crashing to China’s shadow banking bailouts to the constant flow of official assurances that all is well and whatever situations aren’t well are on the mend.

The long lists of visible stress in the global financial system and the almost laughably hollow assurances that there are no bubbles, everything is under control, etc. etc. etc.  certainly remind me of the late-2007-early 2008 period when the subprime mortgage meltdown was already visible and officialdom from Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan on down were mounting the bully pulpit at every opportunity to declare that there was no bubble in housing and the system was easily able to handle little things like defaulting mortgages.

Some five years after repeatedly declaring there was no bubble in housing and nothing to worry about even as the global financial system was coming apart at the seams, Greenspan bleated out a shopworn and not very credible mea culpa, Never Saw It Coming: Why the Financial Crisis Took Economists By Surprise (Foreign Affairs magazine, December 2013).  First, he claimed no one foresaw the crisis, and second, he attributed this failure to a lack of insight into “animal spirits,” the emotional drivers of behavior.

Greenspan claimed that the herd behavior of animal spirits drove financial firms (i.e. Wall Street and Too Big To Fail banks) to keep extending risky bets lest they lose fat profits by exiting the risk-on trade too early. In Greenspan’s view, the abundance of apparent liquidity in the bullish phase created the expectation that the liquidity would be available when everyone decided to sell their positions and exit the risk-on trades.

In Greenspan’s words:

“Financial firms accepted the risk that they would be unable to anticipate the onset of a crisis in time to retrench. However, they thought the risk was limited, believing that even if a crisis developed, the seemingly insatiable demand for exotic financial products would dissipate only slowly, allowing them to sell almost all their portfolios without loss.

They were mistaken. They failed to recognize that market liquidity is largely a function of the degree of investors’ risk aversion, the most dominant animal spirit that drives financial markets. Leading up to the onset of the crisis, the decreased risk aversion among investors had produced increasingly narrow credit yield spreads and heavy trading volumes, creating the appearance of liquidity and the illusion that firms could sell almost anything. But when fear-induced market retrenchment set in, that liquidity disappeared overnight, as buyers pulled back. In fact, in many markets, at the height of the crisis of 2008, bids virtually disappeared.”

It wasn’t just gamblers and financiers who were mistaken—so was Greenspan. Numerous analysts waved the warning flag long before 2008, and the financial media began publishing stories about the housing bubble as early as 2005. In claiming no one foresaw the inevitability of a subprime mortgage meltdown and a domino effect on securitized debt based on those mortgages, Greenspan is flat-out wrong.

Greenspan is also off-track on another of his claims: that the global financial meltdown of 2008 was widely considered a “once in a lifetime” tail risk, too unlikely to ever happen.

The founder of fractal mathematics, Benoit Mandelbrot, published a book in 2004 titled The (Mis)Behavior of Markets: A Fractal View of Risk, Ruin and Reward that completely eviscerated the standard portfolio model of immense faith in the low odds of major crises ever erupting in modern hedged markets.

On the contrary, Mandelbrot showed, major crises were likely to erupt far more often than predicted, and with less predictability than was assumed by the cohort of economists and financiers that dominated the Fed and Wall Street.

In other words, not only was the global meltdown of 2008 foreseeable, it was inevitable.

Looking to Charts for Clues

A number of technical analysts have been posting charts that suggest a meltdown-type decline in global markets could occur in 2014—there’s an analog chart of 1929 making the rounds, and Tom McClellan published a chart of the Coppock Curve indicator that looks like the next downdraft is imminent. 

Chris Kimble published a chart of the St. Louis Fed financial stress index that suggests market complacency has returned to the low levels last touched just before the 2008 global financial meltdown. (Kimble annotated his copy of the chart; this is the plain chart.)

There are a great many indicators, metrics and correlations to watch for signs of a breakdown: analog charts that overlay the current markets onto past eras, corporate earnings, credit spreads, volatility indices, investor sentiment readings, inflation expectations, and various carry trades and ratios such as the S&P 500 (SPX) to gold, oil, Treasury yields and so on.

Just for context, here is a chart of the S&P 500 (SPX) from 2005 to the present:

Hindsight is 20-20, as the saying goes, so it’s worthwhile to look at a chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) I annotated on December 30, 2007. The head and shoulders visible in the above chart—a classic topping pattern—was already visible, but technically, a bullish case could still be made at the end of 2007.

By late summer 2008, just before the collapse of Lehman Brothers unleashed a cascading decline in global markets, the technical picture was much uglier:

The Bullish case had been extinguished by June, when the recovery broke down at the uptrend line, and as a result there were technical reasons to target the 10,300 level (and once below that, then on to even lower targets). 

Properly used, charts help us anticipate what might happen once various targets are hit, but that’s not the same as forecasting a timeline for a global crisis and meltdown. To do that, some fundamental and/or cyclical analysis must be brought to bear.

For example, consider this chart from my friend and colleague Gordon Long of Gordon T. Long Market Analytics & Technical Analysis.

This chart combines an analysis of trend lines and patterns with cycles of speculative bubbles and inflation, deflationary fear, reflation and real deflation.

Martin Armstrong and other analysts have published forecasts based on cycles: the four-year cycle, the 8.3 year cycle, etc.  It is noteworthy that the market peaks in January 2000 and late 2007 were about eight years apart, as were the bottoms in 2002 and 2009.

It’s tempting to extend these cycles and forecast the next top in 2015 and the next bottom in 2017, and perhaps that’s exactly what will transpire. But if we take Mandelbrot’s lessons to heart, we have to accept the fractal nature of markets and the possibility that these cycles may not be reliable guides.

Here are three more charts for your consideration, of income and employment. I’ve annotated the first chart to match what I view as the waves of financialization that have inflated speculative credit bubbles and temporarily, incomes:

Notice that the current asset reflations (or bubbles, if you dare speak the word openly) in stocks, bonds and real estate have failed to lift the year-over-year rate of change in disposable per capita income, which has been declining since 2007.

(Source)

Income per capita doesn’t reflect the enormous divide between the top 10%, who have seen their incomes rise in financialization, and the bottom 90%, who have seen their income stagnate for four decades:

The number of full-time jobs has also failed to reach the peak set in 2007; clearly, the current asset bubbles have failed to boost meaningful (i.e. full-time) employment.

The Party Is Clearly Ending

Collectively, these charts above force us to ask two questions:

1.  If asset bubbles no longer boost full-time employment or incomes across the board, what is the broad-based, “social good” justification for inflating them?

2.  If employment and incomes are stagnating for the vast majority of Americans, how much longer can assets increase in price, presuming there is still some correlation between incomes and sales, profits, creditworthiness, etc.?

In Part 2: What Will Be Different About the Crisis of 2014/2015, we unpack the unprecedented state and central bank policies that turned a global financial rout into one of the most extended Bull markets in history, and make the case that these -- policies designed to combat a liquidity crisis and then a collateral crisis -- have reached diminishing returns.

As a result the next crisis will not be a repeat of 2008 but a much less fixable and much more monumental crisis.

Click here to access Part 2 of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access).

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17 Comments

Wildlife Tracker's picture
Wildlife Tracker
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 14 2012
Posts: 403
Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1971
Accelerated Crash Course

It would be nice if the updated CC made it out before the bubble pops.  Might wake up a few more people before the rug is yanked out from under them.

Wildlife Tracker's picture
Wildlife Tracker
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 14 2012
Posts: 403
Thetallestmanonearth's picture
Thetallestmanonearth
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 28 2013
Posts: 310
Crash Course

It would be nice if the updated CC made it out before the bubble pops.  Might wake up a few more people before the rug is yanked out from under them.

Totally agree T2H.  Posts like this are why I canceled cable and only use Peak Prosperity and a couple of other like-minded sites for my financial news.  Wouldn't it be great if more people were aware of our present trajectory.

sharonsj's picture
sharonsj
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Joined: Apr 2 2013
Posts: 3
some folks use charts....

...I just look around at the for sale signs and the closed stores.  I also have professional friends who are in dire straits; one is a self-employed lawyer going bankrupt and who may lose her house.   I had the foresight to pay off my mortgage, but because I was self-employed and developed various medical problems, I ending up living on $12,000 a year.  I hardly left my house (to save money), bought what I needed at thrift shops and yard sales, and spent the winter in two rooms. You'd be surprised at how many average Americans, struggling to pay the ever-rising bills, have similar stories.  I tell all my friends to start prepping because it's not going to get any better.

thc0655's picture
thc0655
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 27 2010
Posts: 1110
Hidden distress

Sharonsj: I imagine  your economic distress has been barely visible to those around you who don't know you very well. It's a common dynamic. It's also common for cities undergoing severe economic distress, like the big east coast one I work for. To an outside observer there's not much to see that would give the casual observer much indication that conditions are getting as dire as they are. It would be unprofessional of me to go into detail about the cracks I'm seeing in the police department. But take my word for it: the dept is doing the equivalent of buying at thrift stores and living in two chilly rooms in the winter.

Tom

"Welcome to the Hunger Games. May the odds be ever in your favor."

SPAM_Matthew Blain's picture
SPAM_Matthew Blain
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Joined: Oct 24 2010
Posts: 14
Great Depth of Analysis, But...

I'm always blown away by the depth of analysis provided by folk such as Charles. I struggle to absorb most of it, but am impressed nonetheless. For me, my "be all and end all" is the basic math of compounding growth... In a nutshell. Everything else appears as detail/clutter (IMVHO). 

Again, I applaud Chris and his efforts (and thanks for this great site), but sadly I wonder if it's all in vain. I fear people are too set in their ways and the percentage of folk who will appreciate articles such as this (and then takes steps, whatever they may be) is, grappling for a word, insignificant. Further, the chances of such articles finding folk who may indeed provide a means of influence is extremely unlikely. Near zero, I would say.

My advice to folk starting out on this journey of discovery; don't get too bogged down by the detail. Nothing grows forever, it's as simple as that.

Take care and regards,

Matt

westcoastjan's picture
westcoastjan
Status: Platinum Member (Online)
Joined: Jun 4 2012
Posts: 532
"situational awareness"

does not only apply to personal safety, as is being discussed on another thread.  It can also be viewed on a macro scale; those (very few) who are paying attention to what is really going on out there have what I would call good big picture situational awareness.

There is a difference between reading and actually seeing. Those folks who are able to "see", like the ones who frequent this and similar sites, are the ones who are taking concrete actions on various levels to adapt to changing external events, even if those situations are changing at a pace that is not as fast as some predictions. A person may take the time to develop good situational awareness skills on a personal level and never in fact be attacked. That is not a waste of time. It is smart. The same applies to prepping. We may never need it (which I doubt) but it will be there for us when we do. It is not a short term way of thinking. It is a way of life.

As I travel around my small city, the signs of societal breakdown are everywhere, from closed stores and decaying infrastructure to homelessness and desperate food banks and social services. It is all there right before everyone's eyes, but few are actually able to see it for what it is. Solutions are not found and changes are not made by those who cannot or are unwilling to"see".

Jan

Concobb2's picture
Concobb2
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Posts: 12
Various Side Notes On DANGER - with content

Excellent article.  These are not small idiosyncratic wiggles on a daily series.  These are major multigenerational trends.  On the time scale of their formation they are peaking now and will likely be Tsunami-like in their re-structuring effects.

As the per capita disposable income and percent change in income charts clearly show,  prior to 1970 we were all in the same generally prosperous boat.  Then something changed.  

I believe one of the central pillars of that change was our departure from the gold standard.  It allowed exploitive politicization of monetary policy and banking/market practices both domestically and on a global scale (via dollar's reserve currency status).   Politicians, bankers and Market Manipulators rode that wave to riches at the expense of the fat, ignorant, entertainment-hypnotized, and otherwise oblivious middle class.

As we now understand, the ~10% minority owns ~50% of all the material wealth in the nation.  They also own the preponderance of the legislative process AND the mainstream media outlets.  There is little indication or evidence that they will altruistically and spontaneously reform.  It will take external pressure acting on both a cultural and political level to overturn the >50 year entrenchment.    Politically, we seem to be polarizing into 3 factions.  Status quo power (bankers and main stream R's and D's),  Socialists/Fascists/Communists, and Libertarian/Lockean/Jeffersonians.  Historically, two of these groups (TPTB and Socialists) ultimately revert to the use state security forces to violently compel conformity with their agenda.  So, weak and marginalized as they are, I personally have to plant my flag with the Libertarians. 

High on a QE buzz, the markets and popular sentiment are in a great mood these days.   This is equivalent to a sunny calm day on the beech with many of us watching the curiously receding water that is feeding a monstrous Tsunami.

Given where we are on the peaking of these cycles, we really only have two options: 1) continue to enjoy the warm shine and curious spectacle of the big blue wave on the horizon, or 2) RUN!

Respectfully.

robie robinson's picture
robie robinson
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Posts: 943
wish i could give more thumbs up

"As we now understand, the ~10% minority owns ~50% of all the material wealth in the nation.  They also own the preponderance of the legislative process AND the mainstream media outlets.  There is little indication or evidence that they will altruistically and spontaneously reform.  It will take external pressure acting on both a cultural and political level to overturn the >50 year entrenchment.    Politically, we seem to be polarizing into 3 factions.  Status quo power (bankers and main stream R's and D's),  Socialists/Fascists/Communists, and Libertarian/Lockean/Jeffersonians.  Historically, two of these groups (TPTB and Socialists) ultimately revert to the use state security forces to violently compel conformity with their agenda.  So, weak and marginalized as they are, I personally have to plant my flag with the Libertarians. "

i like this

charleshughsmith's picture
charleshughsmith
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Posts: 466
interesting spectrum of responses

Thanks to everyone for posting comments. I think we all see signs of financial decline, much of it hidden (as noted). What I see as really hidden is people withdrawing IRAs and 401Ks for college, medical bills, etc. That retirement money will never be replaced--we're really eating our seed corn to maintain a crazed system.

There will be factional conflict, as those in charge of enforcing the status quo will "do their job." If this means throwing people in jail for not paying their parking tickets, so be it. (a modern version of debtor's prison?)  One element that receives less attention is the widening cracks in the Elites.  At least some members of the Elites are recognizing that continuing on this path will lead to collapse, and so the consensus at the top is fracturing--yet another hidden movement.

I saw a great line recently: "the perversity of elite cohesion."  As that cohesion frays, then the possibility of positive change opens up.

As I have written in my articles on community, there are many ways we can develop a parallel system that neither replaces the status quo nor requires its dismantlement.  It's the community structures that arise when people opt out of the rat-race and start cooperating outside the state and corporate-economy.

kaimu's picture
kaimu
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Posts: 111
MY ONE IN FIVE!

Aloha! Mahalo Charles! If you follow Prof John B Taylor, creator of the infamous Taylor Rule that the US Fed used to follow, you see that this recession is still a recession just based on jobs. Below is a chart he likes to promote to prove his point. Without an increase in workers it's all smoke and mirrors in the end! I think the Elite know their end time is coming which is why police swat officers look an awful lot like Rangers and Navy Seals on Black Ops! Soon the Elites will understand that living behind a fortified compound and not being able to show off your Masseratti to the lower class parked in front of Starbucks isn't fun any more ...

emp-pop-feb-2014.jpg

Where I live here on the Big Island 1-in-5 are on EBT(food stamps). To put that number in context go to the mall or a supermarket and count four people the next one you count needs government assistance to afford food. For the USA the count is 1-in-7! The USA by far has the richest "poor house" in history! One of my friends who began his own mortgage business in 1985 had to file bankruptcy in 2010 for all the reasons we already know about, but he still drives a Mercedes!

What DOESN'T LOOK LIKE 2008 is America before 1971. If you go to the New York Fed website for historical FFR you would be led to believe that it all started in 1971, which curious enough the US Fed wants us brainwashed to think in terms of "no gold standard", even historically. Ask any teenager now, "what was the gold standard?" An interesting note is that in 1955 the Fed Funds Rate(FFR) began and averaged 1.78% then. In 1969 the FFR was at 8.2%. The 10yr was at 6.67% and a new home mortgage was 7.96%. For that year we had our own discount window going but the US Fed member banks had the official low discount window rate of 5.87%. Life was in contango where the future was selling at a discount to the present! Heck back then a 30yr bond didn't exist until 1977! A 3yr and 10yr US Treasury didn't exist until 1953. It was only seven years ago in 2007 that the FFR was at 5.25% and now it seems like the public is brainwashed into thinking that they will never see 5.25% again in their lifetime. Heck will we ever see 2%? Not a good time for those who were working in the 1960s and 1970s convinced that saving for retirement was the best and safest way to be guaranteed the good life! They have been duped to say the least. When my father died in 2006 he had $300,000 in a Bank America account making 1.36%, yet he still had $20,000 left to pay on his 7% mortgage. My father was from the generation that was extremely loyal to banks. He always told me to always pay my debt on time and never pay it off early. He was the generation that bombed Japan from a B29 Super Fortress stationed in Manila! He was a staunch Republican his entire life. Who is loyal to governments and banks now? He died too soon to see his political party and his banks show their true colors and betray the Middle Class. He died too soon to see his loyalties to his politics and money were completely misplaced. Not even monopolies can survive a loss of "confidence" and that is the end game. THE C WORD ...

jgritter's picture
jgritter
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 13 2011
Posts: 264
Power Vacuum

Charles:

I remember wondering if the Congressional ACA/debt ceiling impasse was evidence of a power struggle within the Deep State.  If a schism in the Deep State results in a serious power vacuum is it possible that rather then a corrupt and malevolent government, we might end up with no government at all.  Which would be worse?

John G.

Mots's picture
Mots
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 18 2012
Posts: 139
small self reliant communities

"we can develop a parallel system that neither replaces the status quo nor requires its dismantlement.  It's the community structures that arise when people opt out of the rat-race and start cooperating outside the state and corporate-economy"

Amen to that. This idea of "parallel" is interesting   I suppose that such system demonstrably should exist (purport) to solve community problems and thus not be seen as a threat (not be a target).  In the case of Japan, the government has let alone and actually fostered community currencies, because most of these are designed to take care of old people (and relieve the govt of this burden).  I think that every small community should ostensibly promote their purpose as taking care of needs, which a collapsing government cannot.  Otherwise the collapsing government is a predator and the parallel system is a prey...............

charleshughsmith wrote:

Thanks to everyone for posting comments. I think we all see signs of financial decline, much of it hidden (as noted). What I see as really hidden is people withdrawing IRAs and 401Ks for college, medical bills, etc. That retirement money will never be replaced--we're really eating our seed corn to maintain a crazed system.

There will be factional conflict, as those in charge of enforcing the status quo will "do their job." If this means throwing people in jail for not paying their parking tickets, so be it. (a modern version of debtor's prison?)  One element that receives less attention is the widening cracks in the Elites.  At least some members of the Elites are recognizing that continuing on this path will lead to collapse, and so the consensus at the top is fracturing--yet another hidden movement.

I saw a great line recently: "the perversity of elite cohesion."  As that cohesion frays, then the possibility of positive change opens up.

As I have written in my articles on community, there are many ways we can develop a parallel system that neither replaces the status quo nor requires its dismantlement.  It's the community structures that arise when people opt out of the rat-race and start cooperating outside the state and corporate-economy.

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1872
Capital Flight And Periphery To Core

Well, while everything is appearing to go to crap, here I am in Southern California where the re-appearance of the real estate reflation has made itself felt to everyone, with rising house prices and ever-rising rent. And of course, the periphery retreating to the core areas where the economy is still doing relatively okay so people move here for jobs, and capital flight from Asia, etc.

I just recently signed a two-year lease for a 1980-built 3BR/1BA apartment (with no garage, only a single assigned car port for one car) for $2,000 per month, utilities NOT included. And this is considered low for the area I'm in. Most apartments like this would command a few hundred dollars more.

Poet

Hrunner's picture
Hrunner
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Joined: Dec 28 2010
Posts: 255
Thank You, Charles

Charles,

I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your hard work and clear writing, for which you are surely underpaid, at least in fiat terms.  Your writing is a gift to the internet financial community.  You have the skills of a consummate teacher, in that you know your subject so well, and know how to distill the important points to your audience, in a clear and plain-spoken language.

It seems 90%+ of the orthodoxy in charge of the media and financial analytical world is doing everything to ignore, obfuscate, even intentionally misdirect what few poor souls that even have the level of intellectual curiosity to ask what is going on in the economy, which makes me appreciate you even more.

That is a rare gift, and we don't thank you often enough, but today I say thank you!

I pray for you to have renewed energy and focus to continue to speak truth to power and teach those who are truly intellectually curious.  And to counteract the propaganda that is on the rise yet again.  It feels like 2008 all over again- "housing has always gone up in price".

One comment re Greenspan.  In addition to your valuable comments, something really struck me when I read his remarks (I copy and paste your quote of Greenspan to ensure proper context):

"They were mistaken. They failed to recognize that market liquidity is largely a function of the degree of investors’ risk aversion, the most dominant animal spirit that drives financial markets. Leading up to the onset of the crisis, the decreased risk aversion among investors had produced increasingly narrow credit yield spreads and heavy trading volumes, creating the appearance of liquidity and the illusion that firms could sell almost anything. But when fear-induced market retrenchment set in, that liquidity disappeared overnight, as buyers pulled back. In fact, in many markets, at the height of the crisis of 2008, bids virtually disappeared.”

It struck me deeply that this shows the real problem we find ourselves in with our modern monetary authorities and with modern monetary and economic i.e. Keynesian theory.  Greenspan's view of the world seems to be entirely obsessed with liquidity. 

Not with how productive the real economy is.  Not with what the average person takes home.  Not with a root cause analysis of low employment, flat or sinking household salaries, not with government debt levels or the size of the government, not with level of accumulated wealth of the average citizen.

Just liquidity.

The consequence of liquidity obsession and liquidity as a panacea to fix all the problems in the world is revealed in Greenspan's other statements- fixation on "financial firms" and "investors" and "animal spirits" within "financial markets" and "credit yield spreads".  If liquidity is the one and only problem, then the center of the planet are the entities that create and move around liquidity- financial firms, 'investors' (with is another way of saying financial firms), buyers (buyers, and sellers, not of real goods and services, but 'liquidity' instruments i.e. credit).

Consider how profane this view of the world is.  Not one mention in the above quote of how much the real economy is being damaged by confiscation of productive wealth by the government for it's important things, like buying revolutionaries in Ukraine and creating massive programs to tell children that it is not healthy to be fat and paying able-bodied adults to watch TV or to grow corn and turn it into moonshine I mean ethanolic gas.  Not one mention of wealth distribution and suppression of relative take-home pay and savings across the socio-economic spectrum.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a wealth redistributionist, far from it.  It is obvious that if the middle class that is working hard is being taxed to death, struggling with a government and Fed-created distorted job market that has cratered their wages, while at the same time having their savings crushed by ZIRP, the actual economy, not the Fed la-la land economy, will be sick.  These are the products of immoral policies that give free money to do-nothing Wall Street and Fed banks (and do-nothing Federal governments).  The system is simply bankrupt.

The opposite view of the high priest Greenspan is that an economy should be measured by the actual wealth it produces, and the level of employment and wealth enjoyed by the majority of its citizens, period.   All the other Princeton Department of Economics-created garbage, be it "liquidity" or 'inflation' or 'cpi' or credit default swaps or synthetic interest rate derivatives or animal spirits or some semi-arbitrary 'Dow Jones Index' or a Frankenstein jobs number created by the BLS is just that, garbage.

The take home message to me is that it is time to reject this crap and think clearly, with common sense.

Why do banks exist?  Why does money exist?  What is the proper role of government?  Who creates new jobs in the economy (answer: it ain't the banks or large corporations)?  Who should we reward highly in society, engineers and high-tech manufacturing employees or self-indulgent and self-important policy wonks, fake money dot chasers, teleprompter readers?

KugsCheese's picture
KugsCheese
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 2 2010
Posts: 1169
David Stockman tells truth about Great Depression and Today

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/2014/03/13/keynesian-myths-monetary-central-planning-and-the-triumph-of-the-warfare-state-part-1/

Did they try to brainwash you, and maybe succeed, in public school too?

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