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Creating a World Worth Inheriting

A fresh look at our mission
Friday, August 10, 2012, 2:44 PM

With a new site and a number of new irons in the fire, Adam and I thought it a good time to revisit and renew the mission behind this movement.

Simply put, our mission is to create a world worth inheriting.  By this we mean a clean, healthy living environment, a durable economy, and prosperous opportunities for all who participate with us. That's our big, lofty aim. 

At heart, our view is that our policies, uses, and practices in all of the Three “E”s are unsustainable.  One cannot forever grow non-renewable resource use in a finite world.  The exponential nature of that growth just hastens things along.

Because of hard constraints, our exponential money and debt systems are on a collision course with reality.  We will first and most immediately -- and personally -- experience the deleterious effects of this in what we call 'the economy' in the form of stagnant growth, rising unemployment, and various ills and maladies within the financial markets. 

This is just another way of saying that very big changes are coming our way.  In fact, they are here already.

The simple conclusion is that we must either change our habits and ways on our own terms -- or on Nature's.  We face a future that will be shaped either by disaster or design.

Here at Peak Prosperity, we are solidly behind the idea of positive change made on our own terms and that we are each responsible for whatever future is created. 

There are a number of things that we absolutely have to do in order to achieve our mission. And at the top of the list is reaching and influencing a lot of people (millions upon millions) and doing so effectively.

Your Beliefs Are Your Destiny

One might think, as I did for many years, that this should all be as easy as surfacing and presenting the right information.  Surely once people have the right information they will make the right decisions, right?

No.

As I have come to understand myself and my fellow humans better, it has become clear that the vast majority of our decisions are based on the beliefs we hold, not the information we possess.  And by 'beliefs' I mean little stories, the individual narratives that combine into our larger selves, shaping and driving our daily decisions with many times the force of simple data.

One example might be someone who is noticing, perhaps with increasing alarm, that our weather patterns seem to be getting increasingly chaotic, and holding the idea that cutting carbon emissions is the way to stem (if not reverse) this chaos.  Yet they don’t modify their own habits or actions in any meaningful ways that would significantly trim their personal carbon output, even though these same actions might lead to a personally safer, healthier, more cost-effective and resilient lifestyle.

If we dig deep enough, we might find that beneath their concern lies a narrative -- a belief -- that is actually in control of their actions.  That belief might be Well, even if I cut my carbon output to zero, China will simply take my meager savings and a million more like them and shovel them all into one of their shiny, new coal-fired power plants.

If the underlying belief is that you have no agency or ability to impact the trajectory with the fruits of your efforts, then there's a very high chance that your actions will conform to that belief and you will not expend any effort to change your ways.

This is a small example, but the process is very real.  And what is true for an individual is equally true for an entire nation.  We hold cultural stories that shape our collective actions just as certainly as our individual narratives shape our days.

One story that we need to change is the idea that the world’s resources are infinitely abundant.  Another might be that technology always makes things better.  A third might be that we have the ability to shift in a non-disruptive manner from a higher-density energy source (fossil fuels) to lower-density energy sources (sun, wind, biofuels, etc).  A fourth might be that the economy has to grow for us to prosper. 

Each of these narratives and many, many more exist and shape both what we do and what we do not do. 

Your beliefs become your thoughts, 
Your thoughts become your words, 
Your words become your actions, 
Your actions become your habits, 
Your habits become your values, 
Your values become your destiny.

~ Mahatma Gandhi

So the first order of business is identifying which beliefs, which narratives, we are running. And then we need to figure out how to go about either modifying or replacing them if/as necessary.

We are currently holding beliefs about money, the economy, resources, and a number of other unexamined areas that simply must be held up to the bright light of reason.  If we don't, the odds of stumbling into a crisis of historic proportions are practically 100%.

Critical Mass

So one narrative that we are seeking to open up to active questioning is the "need" for exponential economic growth.  If we are to do that and effect meaningful change, our view is that we have to build a critical mass of awareness.  This has two primary components. 

The first is reaching the right people -- those influencers who have an outsized impact on the people around them.  In the parlance of the author Malcolm Gladwell as articulated in his book Tipping Point, those people fall into three categories; mavens (data accumulators), connectors (people who delight in bringing disparate circles of people together), and salespeople (who really care about meeting the needs of people). 

The second component involves reaching enough people.  Fortunately, a tipping point can and usually does occur well before you've reached 51% of the population.  Getting to the right 8%-10% is thought to do the trick; most of the rest just follow along. 

Okay, that's all well and good, but how does one go about reaching the right people in sufficient numbers to make a difference, let alone contribute to a tipping point?

Here we have a number of driving philosophies and principles that we adhere to.

We are constantly trying new things and applying our efforts towards reaching new audiences and doing it better and more effectively.  On our own site we can control the messages and wording to our heart's content.  However, there are only so many new people we can reach given the constraints of our budget and resources.  With your help, we've done a remarkably incredible job to date; reaching many more people than organizations that are far larger and better funded than ours.  I am personally very pleased with all that we've accomplished so far.

From time to time, we wander off our personal reservation and partner up with someone else or another organization that wants to use our book, our content, or me personally to help them with their aims.  When we do, we are very selective and careful -- but know that even with the very best of efforts towards alignment, the message and wording will be different when other stakeholders are involved than if we did it ourselves.

One example, that was rather painful for me, was a Boston magazine piece entitled The End Is Near, Inc, written in July of 2010, where I ended up being photoshopped into a bunker, wearing my suit, with bars of gold, canned food, and chickens surrounding me.  The article took an angle implying that my work was a combination of messianic crusade and capitalist profit motive.  And this was after I spent two full days with a freelance journalist with strong credentials (NY Times, New Yorker, etc.) where I took a lot of time explaining the Crash Course, my entire philosophy of positive resilience, and my sustainable homestead (which the journalist claimed to love).  

When the article first came out, I was livid and said never again. It was off-brand, off-message, off-taste, and potentially harmful to our mission, as it cast me in completely the wrong light...ugh.  

However, over time I have had a number people say they found this site and my work because of that article. And I realized that I would never have reached them otherwise. 

Hmmmm.  Okay.

There were two things we learned from that experience. 

The first led to the decision to no longer enter any media events where we don't have at least some control over the script and final edits.  Over the years I have turned down offers to be part of prepper reality shows, doom-oriented television specials, and other similar opportunities because the producers were quite clear that we'd have no input and no final say. 

The second was that even when the job is mangled badly, there's still some benefit, as we get to reach people we'd have otherwise missed.

Now, when offered the chance to reach new audiences, we are careful. But we're not so exclusive in our messaging demands that we miss out on opportunities to expand our reach.  It's a balancing act; compromises and negotiations are just part of that landscape.

So we do the best we can.  We try new things, experiment, adjust, and drop and pick up new connections, experiences and opportunities as a part of achieving our mission.

Transparency

As we join forces with outside partners, there will be opportunities where Peak Prosperity may be offered a commercial interest. Most of the time that’s not the case – but when it is, we have been and will remain committed to making the terms of such commercial relationships crystal clear to all.

Our greatest advantage in the empirical approach we take on this site, in the rigor underlying the Crash Course, etc., is the trust we have built as open, honest, impartial advisors.

While we will enter into commercial arrangements that help fund Peak Prosperity’s ongoing operations, we will decline an opportunity if we believe it will compromise this trust.

We think we have a pretty good set of criteria by which we filter these opportunities – and we only choose those that are aligned at the center of our goals and publicly-offered advice. But if you ever have questions or feedback about one of our partnerships, please don’t hesitate to ask us.

(For the much wider set of partnerships where there are no commercial terms involved, we’re willing to be a lot more experimental. Exploring new ways to reach new audiences is key to figuring out how to influence at critical mass.

We won’t engage in such partnerships that don’t feel true to our core message and brand. But we will take risks that will invariably stretch too far – and with your feedback, we’ll learn what works and what doesn’t)

Conclusion

We have a very big mission and we constantly seek ways to do it better while serving you and supporting our families and staff. 

We'll both make mistakes and hit home runs along the way.  Being bold and creative is just part of this landscape, and we're here doing what we do because we're well endowed with those traits. 

We ask that you view our new efforts and attempts as experiments, rather than departures or failures.  If you like -- or don't like -- any of our new efforts, just tell us and we'll listen.  Constructive, helpful, and specific critiques carry a lot more weight with us than general complaints, but we read and hear them all.

If you happen to have connections or ideas that can help us either reach more people or reach them better, please tell us.  Join the Brigade, show the Crash Course in your neighborhood, send our newsletters to people in your contact list, or leave comments on other sites directing people to anything here at Peak Prosperity that you found useful or helpful. 

Those are the precise things that got us all the way to where we are now.

Thank you for everything.  We are all in this together.

Related content

43 Comments

mobius's picture
mobius
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: May 18 2009
Posts: 152
A suggestion...

I would love to see Chris and Dick Strawbridge (UK BBC presentor among his many talents) have a meeting of minds.  The Strawbridge's made their TV debut on the programme "IT’S NOT EASY BEING GREEN".

http://www.dickstrawbridge.com/www.dickstrawbridge.com/Home.html

Cheers, Joanne.

t.tanner's picture
t.tanner
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 16 2008
Posts: 43
Chris

I believe it's important to be honest about your goals, and to lay them out clearly for people to see and discuss.  I applaud this new course you've just described.  It's a logical next step, and more importantly, an intuitive and heartfelt move toward the best possible future.  Good luck, and I'll look forward to a more mature and productive site as P.P. continues to evolve.  I'm sure you'll have your fair share of detractors, but keep in minds the words of Teddy Roosevelt:  

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."  

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1509
Yes

That's why most of us are here, to try and help reach that tipping point.

Thank you for giving us a shared platform to help others see that they can either embrace the coming, inevitable changes as a positive and concious choice, or be forced into accepting the new realities and experience it as a loss.

westcoastjan's picture
westcoastjan
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 4 2012
Posts: 466
you are on the right track

Thanks for sharing. As safewrite says, we are all here to help. One person at a time we will reach the tipping point and with luck, the pendulum will start to swing the other way. Your leadership is extremely helpful. If each of us does our part by sharing information, forwarding articles, and engaging others in conversation, then we stand a pretty good chance of effecting a shift in the right direction.  Not only in words, but in action. We must work hard at this, so that we are able to maintain some measure of control of our destinies. Surely that is worth fighting for. 

jturbo68's picture
jturbo68
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 4 2009
Posts: 193
Question about sharing PP Content

What is the PP policy on sharing Enrolled reports to others via email?  Generally I avoid sharing the paid content that I receive as email, under the assumption that sharing it would violate some Terms and Conditions that I have probably agreed to along the way.

However, I do not know that for sure, so I am asking.

Thanks,

John

Concobb2's picture
Concobb2
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Joined: Dec 21 2010
Posts: 12
Time is of the essence

Chris et al.,

It is my impression that every iota of leverage that can be used by governments and elites to preserve the current global economic system is now in play.    A primary tool in these activities is exploitation of the productive class and the stored wealth of past generations (national gold reserve, industrial base, civil and cultural reservoirs).  Out of ignorance, the common man is allowing himself to be consumed by these parasitic entities.  

I believe timing is crucial.  If broad popular understanding occurs too late as a result of a global crises, we could easily loose our individual freedoms and the meager stores of wealth we have set aside from a lifetime of hard work.  It might take generations to regain, and I doubt that self interested totalitarianism will pursue the greatest good.  

We must achieve political "mass" before we enter crises. There are other communities emerging that share foundational elements with your views.   For example, Glenn Beck's followers,  elements of the "tea party", elements of the "occupy" movement, religious communities,  environmentalists, lRon Paul's libertarians, preppers, and survivalists.   

I suspect that a raw tally of these communities would be a significant number of people, perhaps even enough to form a viable political movement?   The trick would be finding a means to buffer the more acidic elements of these organizations so that the prize, main stream acceptance, could be achieved.

If the objective is to mitigate and manage the coming transition hardships and avoid costly crises (starvation, population collapse, and war), you must have political muscle to do real work.

You need a political movement.

Otherwise, we will all likely remain isolated individuals posturing small bands of like minded people that simply seek to have a marginally better shot at surviving the train wreck. 

Respectfully

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1509
Dear Concobb2 - we need to

Dear Concobb2 - we need to become a political movement? Not in the way you think.

Consider how each of the 3 E's bring in different types of people.

Economy tends to bring in fiscal conservatives, who are often socially conservatives or Tea Partiers. Environment tends to bring in Greens, who are very often liberal and occasionally socialist or even Occupy members. Energy tends to bring in people from the financial sector: investors.

My three-year experience on this site is that these wildly divergent backgrounds often make things impossible in a political debate. Too often, the ideology a person comes to the site with becomes something that gets in the way of civil conversations. The moderators here do an incredible job and make this the most courteous and useful prep site on the web, but when we get into political debates online shouting--even screaming--occurs. Name-calling happens. People get temporarily or permanently banned. Often, the other person's motives are questioned and none too kindly.

So we stick to practical topics like beekeeping, chickens, home security, canning, wealth preservation (for those of us who have any), off-the-grid energy, and clean water. And in the process I have observed that you get Tea Partiers who start to acknowledge that climate change might be real, and Occuppy members who begin to realize that in a world with less energy perhaps local solutions will be more important than top-down statist ones, and financial gurus who start to realize that global corporate entities are out of control.

Politics is made up of individuals. We change individual's information filters here. When enough people see that things are not sustainable as is, then we will hopefully stop blaming each other for things that are far past changing and work together for solutions. But true solutions will only happen after all parties see the facts - and this site is very good at explaining the facts of peak oil, peak water, and why things cannot and will not go on in the way we are used to.

Oliveoilguy's picture
Oliveoilguy
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Posts: 360
Following the Facts

safewrite wrote:

Politics is made up of individuals. We change individual's information filters here. When enough people see that things are not sustainable as is, then we will hopefully stop blaming each other for things that are far past changing and work together for solutions. But true solutions will only happen after all parties see the facts - and this site is very good at explaining the facts of peak oil, peak water, and why things cannot and will not go on in the way we are used to.

One  strength of this site is the committment to factual information.  It takes intellectual honesty to follow facts to conclusions even if they lead you to a new place. When we get to that new place and look around, we will see a community of like minded thinkers. 

ckessel's picture
ckessel
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 12 2008
Posts: 422
Beliefs and Destiny - the 'need' for exponential economic growth

The concept of growth and expansion seems to be hardwired into life forms whether it is on a cellular level or in our everyday consiousness. Economics and 'economic growth' is really only a human expression of that process.

Just like the metamorphosis of a butterfly, it is my opinion that the human experiment is in that process of massive change as we speak. The seeds of the future are also contained within ourselves and the outcome is variable and unique (in other words not predestined...IMHO).

Life is created, it grows and expands, it matures and gets old and it perishes only to evolve and repeat with adaptations.

My beliefs are that this is an inevitable process, that the outcome will be determined by those that can create one. Fear, anger, hopelessness, etc. are the oppositional forces of creativity and positive outcomes. So our work revolves around making the facts known and then dealing with the process of working through the emotions those facts elicit.

This is a very large process to be sure. The goals are mile high and each of us are players.

I recently read a book I found very interesting along these lines by Lynne McTaggert which is titled "THE FIELD". She also authored "The Intention Experiment" which is about using your thoughts to change your life and the world. I think they are pertinent to the work being done by Chris and all folks who are confronting our future with an idea in mind to take responsibility and make it one worth inheriting.

As I carry on with my daily activities which today will be turning the compost pile on our seed garden project, fabricating the parts for the farm pond water intake system I will also be thinking about what each one of you fellow crash course grads are creating in your communities.

Best to all!

Coop

Concobb2's picture
Concobb2
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Posts: 12
Time Urgency (w/ content)

Dear Safewrite,

Thank you for the engagement.  

By nature and spirit, I believe in the creative power of the individual.   I frankly have strong libertarian leanings.  Given enough time, I fully agree with you that broad-based coherent political movement is best achieved by consensus among individuals.    Personally, I am deeply disappointed in the poor quality of political discourse across our nation and confess that I reluctantly engage in political debates.

The variable that concerns me is timing.

Over and over in my world, I have observed executive decision makers that only comprehend what should have been done after it is too late for major initiatives to return events to a positive trajectory (please ref Iraq and Afghanistan political and military policies). 

The entire world is effectively a tightly interconnected network.  As we have all likely come to understand, this network is remarkably durable under it’s current extreme states of economic, social, and resource stress.  (as a aside, I urge inclusion of social/cultural stress in your E3 model).   Humans, being largely emotional decision makers, commonly have non-linear responses to new events.  This can shock the entire global network. For example, the sensational public suicide of a Tunisian street vendor was the shock that precipitated  revolutions in Libya, Egypt, and now Syria.  Crop failure in the US AND/OR Iranian reactions to sanctions, AND/OR EU disintegration, may precipitate a global network disruption that produces further severe negative shifts in the human condition.

I concede that if we have Time, evolutionary consensus through individuals is absolutely the correct answer.  And for small groups that are sensitive to risk, it is also the safest foundation for advocacy and action.  

If the global "net" fails in a non-liner manner, individual awareness  will form rapidly, but it will most likely be irrational and unable to positively effect the course of events.  And it will likely even be counter productive.

In my view, the large scale risks indicate that we should consider the pros & cons of concentrating the existing population of "adherents" to more rapidly achieve a Pareto critical mass.  Achieving awareness prior to crises is also the window for forming rational policy. 

My suggestion is that political movements inherently have this potential.  As recent examples I will again point to how rapidly the Occupy, Tea Party, and Arab Spring movements have been able to shape the course of events and popular dialog. 

Again, thank you for the engagement.

Respectfully

RJE's picture
RJE
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 31 2008
Posts: 1369
safewrite wrote: "Politics

safewrite wrote:

"Politics is made up of individuals. We change individuals information filters here. When enough people see that things are not sustainable as is, then we will hopefully stop blaming each other for things that are far past changing and work together for solutions. But true solutions will only happen after all parties see the facts - and this site is very good at explaining the facts of peak oil, peak water, and why things cannot and will not go on in the way we are used to."
 

OH!, safewrite nailed it, absolutely nailed it.

Safewrite is clear thinking and I agree with every word she has spoken.

I would add only this, and it is based on history and the human form during the 60's and the 30's. The people of this country WILL NOT tolerate things as they are for much longer. The tools used today to tame the spirited are going to be unaffordable and when this happens, and I fear this will be soon then change is what you can count on and I happen to have always believed that truth is always more palatable than bullshit. A wake up call is near and Chris and everyone hear (you and I) understands, and really must do their civic duty to educate and calm or insight (?/!) to get the message across compassionately.

You do realize that some of us or many are going to go through some terrible times through all of this. Nothing is assured, and everything is at stake. Will we be Brothers and Sisters when the SHTF or will we peel off into our own sects? Whatever your decision from here to there I wish you well.

There will be right and wrong decisions to make, and it will be your character that will determine a clear path forward. I just believe in our character that has developed here at Peak Prosperity and have been learned from all the days of our lives. We are all learning, different stages, and take steps backward as we march forward, just keep marching forward. Our interests are diverse, priorities are different but we will sort these things out as events unfold. Really listen, observe and take all individuals actions as proof of their intent.

Safewrite, I am a fan.

Where the hell is Arthur, I miss him.

Respectfully Given

BOB

Pioneer's picture
Pioneer
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 1 2009
Posts: 60
How to reach more people - a weekly PBS television serial

I had an idea to reach more people with accurate information and right understanding to “Create a World Worth Inheriting”: create a PBS weekly television serial, perhaps called "This New Life".

This New Life would be a weekly program which explores and demonstrates all the aspects of the New Human Ecology and New Human Values that will be the New Paradigm of Sustainable Living, Stewardship of the Earth and Earth Community, and how to ride the bewildering landscape of the Paradigm Shift to this bright New World gracefully, intelligently, together.

The program would be staged at the site of an ideal New Paradigm Home and garden where all aspects of a more ideal human ecology (how we maintain our bodies) and human values (how we pursue happiness) that is in partnership with Nature and in harmony with the Heart, would be portrayed in an entertaining fictional storyline but giving factual information, right understanding and right vision of New Paradigm Life, which is the remedy to the Old Paradigm ills and the creation of the New Paradigm.

The program would have the combined flavor and share some structural aspects of "This Old House", "A Prairie Home Companion" and "the Waltons" with a story line, humor, lots of music, a structured exploration of the Paradigm Shift and New Paradigm Life facts and concepts (economic, ecological, energy, social, spiritual (universal - of the heart - not sectarian) - where we've been and where we need to go, visits and interviews with people and businesses around the world making the shift to the New Paradigm, a weekly forum for expert expression undistorted by vested interests, and viewer contributions in the form of commentary and submission of music videos expressing the spirit and application of New Paradigm values, architecture and behavior.

Recurring, structured segments will equip people with the understanding of what's wrong with the Old Paradigm and so what is needed for the New Paradigm, how to create the New Paradigm in their own lives and communities, and the inspiration and will and tools to do it:   “Candlelight Chat” (with expert-visionaries, like Roosevelt's fireside chats)   “Public Forum”  “Keys to the New Paradigm” (concepts and guidelines for New Paradigm life)   “Technology of the week”  “Paradigm Shift News” (what's happening around the world)  “Amazing fact of the week”   “Visits” (video-taped visits with New Paradigm champions)  “Home Sweet Home, 2030”  (life in New Paradigm Shelter)  “What I can do”   “Gardening the Earth”  (New Paradigm agriculture in the home garden and on the farm)   “Healthy and Happy in the New Paradigm Kitchen” (the food produced in the home garden and on the farm)  “How it works”  (energy, architecture and mechanical systems of New Paradigm Shelter)  “New Song”  or  “Visions” (music-dance videos celebrating the New Paradigm submitted by viewers).

Imagine the production team!   - matching great TV producers with celebrities and artists, and expert-visionaries like Chris Martenson, Richard Heinberg, Lester Brown, James Kuntsler (I believe he is a Shakespearean actor), Bill McKibben, David Korten, James Hansen, Helen Caldicott, Fred Krupp, Colin Campbell and others.

Television is a powerful tool for education, behavioral change, inspiration, communication and unity  - essentially what is needed for a fundamental shift in the human paradigm - and it can achieve this RAPIDLY, which is the need of the hour as the exponential factor fans the flames of the converging man-made Global Crises driving the Shift with an ever growing and more urgent moral and survival imperative.

Oh! if only we had a few hundred million dollars - a drop of the flood of wealth being used to perpetuate the doomed Old Paradigm-  what we could do!

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Posts: 1509
Dear Concobb2,First of all,

Dear Concobb2,

First of all, when you called it "your 3E model," I hope you meant "you" in the plural sense, as the 3Es are not mine personally but are Dr. Martenson's and are his founding principles for this site. I cannot include social/cultural stress in the 3E model as it is not MY model. That being said, I hope you've watched The Crash Course. If not, I urge you to do so before we debate this further, because it will have the useful effect of defining some of our terms and get us working from the same knowledge base.

You wrote:

I believe in the creative power of the individual.   I frankly have strong libertarian leanings.  Given enough time, I fully agree with you that broad-based coherent political movement is best achieved by consensus among individuals.    Personally, I am deeply disappointed in the poor quality of political discourse across our nation and confess that I reluctantly engage in political debates.

No argument there. You go on to say:

The variable that concerns me is timing.

Over and over in my world, I have observed executive decision makers that only comprehend what should have been done after it is too late for major initiatives to return events to a positive trajectory (please ref Iraq and Afghanistan political and military policies). 

Forgive me for asking this, but (and please do not be offended as I have a valid reason for asking) - how old are you? Because in my experience young people are somewhat more convinced they can change the world. I am not so much older as more experienced. Let me give you an example.

At 57 I've been involved in political campaigns. I supported a candidate for our school board based on a textbook issue. Once she got a majority on the board, which took 2 elections and involved things like her side's candidate mailers being illegally "lost" by the post office until after the election, misuse of franking priveleges and other nasty tactics.... When she and her fellow reformers got on the board they found 11 teachers on the salary schedule that did not exist AND rent being paid on a nonexeistent retaining wall for years. The money was going into SOMEONE's pocket, possibly everyone on the former board. When he found out that this damning information was sent to the state atty general, the superintendent of schools had a heart attack on the spot and ended up in a nursing home until he died. 

What then happened? Nothing other than a slight tax rebate to all village residents when the salary schedule dropped the 11 nonexistent teachers, and only what they would have been 'paid' that year. No one was arrested, prosecuted, or even slapped on the wrist. The paper did not even cover it!  And then the remaining board from the old crew fought every other reform tooth and nail. This is just one of many examples of corruption I ran across in many arenas. You see enough of them and it wears you down. Can you imagine layer upon layer of this going up to the highest levels of government? Reform starts to look like tilting at windmills. 

I still do what I can in my new home state, but if you think you can stop something with as much momentum as the decades-long corrupt relationship between government and banks, I empathize with your ideals but ...well, again watch The Crash Course. Even if we get the politicians to behave, things will crash anyhow. Maybe not as hard, but physical laws like gravity are in effect.

No matter how much or how little time we have, whether we get "evolutionary consensus" or not - per the aptly-named Crash Course things are going to crash. Whether is is a slo-mo crash or an abrrupt one, I suggest to you that a political solution will not do much at all. We are past that tipping point. We have too much population, too few global resources (oil, water, food) and have already squandered our time to avoid most of  a castastrophe.

In my view, the large scale risks indicate that we should consider the pros & cons of concentrating the existing population of "adherents" to more rapidly achieve a Pareto critical mass.  Achieving awareness prior to crises is also the window for forming rational policy. 

My suggestion is that political movements inherently have this potential.  As recent examples I will again point to how rapidly the Occupy, Tea Party, and Arab Spring movements have been able to shape the course of events and popular dialog.

In my opinion, even if everyone "got it" tomorrow and worked toward reform and rational policy, it's too late to avoid chaos. All we can do is ammeliorate it. I welcome your desire to make a difference, and share it, but caution you that you should not put your faith in politics any more than those who think technology will save us put their faith in science, or religious people put their faith in god(s).

Facts, however depressing, are better than faith. They help you deal with reality.

A presuppositional question for you: how do you view human nature? Becuse if you view man as basicaly good and a product of his environment and conditioning you will propose very different solutions than those who think that human nature is inherently flawed by greed and a tendency toward self-gratification and corruption. As a student of history, I lean toward the latter view.

ALIHAYMEG's picture
ALIHAYMEG
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Human Nature

"A presuppositional question for you: how do you view human nature? Becuse if you view man as basicaly good and a product of his environment and conditioning you will propose very different solutions than those who think that human nature is inherently flawed by greed and a tendency toward self-gratification and corruption. As a student of history, I lean toward the latter view."

History only shows us where we have been. It is a fallacy of logic to assume that what has never been done can never be done; just ask the Write Brothers. What we currently are is not the end state. We are adaptive and incredibly resilient creatures; and our evolution is certainly not complete. As a student of psychology and other related disciplines, it has become clear to me that we are, indeed, all products of our environment. It was not easy for me to change my view on this, even in the face of the evidence. I was always taught that "evil" was a real force in the world, and that some people were just inherently bad. That is a dangerous thing to accept and believe, because it takes the responsibility off of those responsible and places it on the victims of "life deprivation".

If we accept that, then we can lock people away as simply evil men and women rather than owning up to the fact that it is the deprivation and inequality in our established systems that cause abhorrent behaviors and desperation. If we would admit that, then we would be forced to DO something to alleviate the conditions that cause abhorrent behavior. Believing that some people are just evil is a way of looking at the way things are that doesn't challenge the way things are. It is the path of least resistance. I'm sure that you have lived long enough to realize that taking the easy way is almost always the wrong way, and that doing the right thing is almost always the more difficult thing. I believe in the strength of the human spirit. I fully expect that we will survive and continue to evolve into ever more complex and compassionate beings; capable of bringing our behaviors in line with natural law. We have not yet come to imagine what it means to be civilized. We thing we know, but we are sorely mistaken. One quote sums it up quite well actually. Gandhi said:

"Poverty is the worst form of violence."

We need to recognize that we are the perpetrators of violence on those whom we have the power to aid but not the will. Even Christ told us that what we fail to do for the least among us, we fail to do unto him. The world can't afford for us to continue to believe that people deserve poverty and deprivation if they fail to work hard enough or try hard enough. The revolution is coming; a "revolution of the mind" that will lead us all to recognize our interconnectedness. If I see myself in you and you in me, then I can no longer allow you to suffer; no matter what you have done or not done. It is my duty; my calling; my purpose.

 

steve from virginia's picture
steve from virginia
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Hmmm ... A bit too much,

Hmmm ...

A bit too much, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Messages aren't necessary, Events are speaking for themselves. For those who don't understand ... too damned bad.

RJE's picture
RJE
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Steve... "meet the new boss,

Steve...

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Dream a little, don't give in...

Peace

BOB

RJE's picture
RJE
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or...

or...

RJE's picture
RJE
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Posts: 1369
...can't have this

...can't have this

RJE's picture
RJE
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Strong Narrative: FDR during

Strong Narrative:

FDR during a time of great struggles:

He stated the following in his State of the Union address to the U.S. Congress in January 1941:

"We look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms:

The first is freedom of speech and expression — 
everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way — everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want — everywhere in 
the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear — everywhere in 
the world."

Yeah!

BOB

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pinecarr
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Awakening Awareness

First, great, constructive idea, Pioneer:

Pioneer wrote:
I had an idea to reach more people with accurate information and right understanding to “Create a World Worth Inheriting”: create a PBS weekly television serial, perhaps called "This New Life".

This New Life would be a weekly program which explores and demonstrates all the aspects of the New Human Ecology and New Human Values that will be the New Paradigm of Sustainable Living, Stewardship of the Earth and Earth Community, and how to ride the bewildering landscape of the Paradigm Shift to this bright New World gracefully, intelligently, together.

As you said at the end, there are challenges (like $) in making something like this work.  But brainstorming of ideas comes before the critical evaluation of those ideas, the identification of issues that would need to be addressed, and planning on how to overcome those challenges.  I think you spoke directly to the spirit of what Chris wants to accomplish, which is what is needed now.

Moving on.  

This morning an idea from Kahlil Gibran's book, the Prophet, came to mind.  Paraphrasing his lesson on teaching, he says that a teacher needs to "lead people to the threshold of their own understanding".  Here's the quote (edited to minimize religious content per site guidance): 

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge...

If he is indeed wise,he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind. 

The astronomer can speak to you of understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding, 

The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm not the voice that echoes it.

And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you hither.

For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.

I love the Crash Course and the ideas discussed here and in related sites, books, and articles.  But I think many of us who already "get" the message are ones for whom the message already reached the threshold of our own understanding (and inherent proactiveness to learn the truth).  

So where am I going with this?  If the goal is to reach a broader audience, I think we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the people we are trying to reach, and ask "how can we guide them to the threshold of their understanding"?

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treemagnet
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This site needs....

The "cool factor".  Chris needs to reach out to other sites with diverse audiences (and no, this site is not a diverse audience....) and get the Tyler Durdens, Jim Quinns, and so forth to recommend their viewers check out and look into this site.  That street credit allows non traditional viewers to lower thier guard and take it in on thier own terms.  To cull the herd and collect the percent or two of thse sites who will fit this sites....."requirements" of thoughtful, reasoned, intellectual, famous quote name dropping/source citing posting accumen is, in my opionion, the best near term solution.  Because this site is so far to one side of the discussion(s) out there, its a viewership limiting factor.  But, its a tough row to hoe, and a beer always tastes better after hard work.

But too much of that diversity which is so often talked about and credited won't be welcome here for long.  This is a niche site that not unlike a growing oak tree will just take time - alot of time to get bigger and stronger.  Like cheap debt, a quick rise in viewership will likely lead to a viewership hangover when dreams and hopes are not delivered as popularity promised.  The MSM is a jungle that I'm certain Chris can navigate somewhat - reach out to those journalists for a plug.  Personally, I've thought of leaving the site - its pretty clear I'm a fringe element.  But, there are things to learn. 

But Adam/Chris,

One thing would allow a truly diversified group of posters - like the kind you love as well as mostly don't care for - would be a way for different opinions to be represented in different places on the site.  Same topic, say...unions - which will elicit pure hate from me, could have different "camps" to reside in.  Maybe you have to assign yourself or be assigned to a category to post - but you can post WHATEVER YOU WANT.  Anyone can roam and check out other views to the same topic, but can only view when not in their respective home camp.  Chris could write pieces - thoughtful pieces - with a target audience.  A trojan horse if you will to gain admission to other sites diverse readers.  Its not poaching, growing PP doesn't detract from anothers site.  Chris maintains control, viewership could explode by truly accomodating different views and opionions, and no longer could diversity be embraced in name only.  But now, you're in focused selling mode building an audience, any audience - doesn't matter who anymore, theres room for everyone.  Currently you're stuck looking for square pegs that fit square holes.  My .02

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Treemagnet..

I support your ideas.. but just want to say that in my view, the Tylers of ZH already do their part in leading their readship over to CM.com via their regular posting of many of the "freebie" portions of the pieces Chris and his contributors write.  

Example:  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-when-quantitative-easing-finall...

What more would you have them, or Chris, or Adam, do? 

Personally, I think the most important outreach needs to target new awakenings... vs. taking the awake from ZH or Jim Quinn and helping them to become 3E awake... I think that progression will happen naturally.  I think we still lack the necessary quick hook to bring about the, "aha" moment in folks who still have little or no idea that something is deeply wrong.     

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Paradigm Shift education - starting with students' understanding

thanks for your observation PineCarr.  If we get the opportunity to create a television series on the Paradigm Shift this will be a key guiding prindiciple in the program design:   "I think we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the people we are trying to reach, and ask "how can we guide them to the threshold of their understanding"?

Having been so long focused on the Shift, when I discovered Chris's Crash Course, some of the pieces of the puzzle fell together, so actually his vision boosted mine.  But how to enlighten people who have no information, no awareness of their own need, no care?   I am reminded everytime I discuss Peak Oil or climate change or the degradation of Nature how little understanding or care people have of our dependencies on the wealth of Nature and the critical role of energy to tap this wealth, and how to do this sustainably and with care.  Architects of the information portion of a television series would have to make a list of the key facts and concepts of Paradigm Shift and all its integral asects  - the converging Crises (including economic, energy and environmental shift), the remedies to these and the bright New Paradigm which will result.  Then the broadcasts would have to cycle through these facts and concepts incorporating them into the life experience at the New Paradigm Home stage, into the dialogue of the actors.  Thinking out loud here.  Anyway thanks for this key idea.

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Thats just it though

The readers of other sites are already "in the market" for info.  You do your best business on main street giving the people what they want.  I'll bet most on this site at some point had to come to the conclusion that something is seriously wrong and the msm isn't getting it done.  A site that addresses the "prepper lifecycle" would be akin to what GM offered for years with the chevy/pontiac/buick/olds/cadillac progression.  People don't suddenly crave a debate about LIBOR, they start with food, guns, gold, shelter, etc.  What do buy/do, when/how to do it.  The crash course is excellent - I've bought it and sent it out on rounds to people I care about, but it doesn't dial into specifics so as to not become dated/etc. (my guess).   So give 'em what they want.  Eventually they'll want to learn about silver manipulation and have ideas for the weekly "world peace" themed articles/posts responses.    I still believe an increased focus on specific recommendations for preparations as well as the current pp debates on nuclear energy and global this or peak that can be had.  More readers posting about what they know, from specifics (products and practices with a CM/PP endorsement) to macro themed debates is what I would like to see more of.  Anything other is just searching for a few needles in a haystack.  And again, there is no poaching suggested here - not that I care - it would just be a site that offers more to more people on the mental transition we've all found ourselves on .  Three years ago, I would've laughed at what I now believe.  And for what its worth, Tyler Durden or whoever he is has set the bar high for riveting posts that cut through the crap, call it like folks see it, and has demonstrated an ability to keep you coming back better than most....different objectives for sure but have you notice how he is able to keep both new and old readers returning?  His audience suggests he knows something about the progression of thought on the part of his readers.  I don't want the fight club atmosphere in general, but can't the boys brawnl in the basement?  Can't a passionate topic allow the gloves to come off?  Then if the boys want to grow up and join the adults in the parlor for intelligent discussion - why can't they rejoin?  Durdens got some, but CM is so loaded up with "Thank you Chris, thank God for you and what you've done for me..." posts I get ill at times.   In the end, I guess these are my thoughts for what PP should do to grow.  You can't just keep kicking Treemagnet around forever.  Thats just my thought on the matter, I hope many disagree and post on this and others to get a better result.  Thanks.

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Why do you feel that way?

treemagnet wrote:

But too much of that diversity which is so often talked about and credited won't be welcome here for long. 

Personally, I've thought of leaving the site - its pretty clear I'm a fringe element.  But, there are things to learn. 

Currently you're stuck looking for square pegs that fit square holes.

 

Treemagnet

Can you be more specific about the snips I quoted above?  I like your posts.  I think you make good contributions to the conversation.

You are pragmatic and direct, which is good, because some people tend to be pretty dreamy.  But I don’t remember anyone saying you don’t belong here.  There is a wide spectrum of viewpoints discussed here, and some ideas are hotly debated.  We are free to say anything we want, but we need to be prepared to answer challenges if we want to convince others.

I don’t see you as a man who is easily intimidated.  So why do you feel out of place?  And why let that stop you?

Seriously man,

Travlin

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I second what Travlin' said -

I second what Travlin' said - Treemagnet, you make good contributions. I look forward to your posts. Many viewpoints are represented here. It's one of our strengths: too often people outside of this site get their news and conversations from like-minded folks and never learn anything.

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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Hey Travlin

Thanks for the kind response.  Same to Safewrite.  In order, this site to me has a very narrow spectrum of participants.  Some, like me - must tailor their words to fit, not always fitting.  This is an site largely for intellectuals and thinkers that are in stages of planning or prepping.  Have you noticed how diversity is championed in public, then on Sundays the blacks and white worship seperately?  Bad analogy, but diversity would mean changing this site for new members with different attitudes and ways of expressing them.  But, thats cool - there are sites for those.  Second, don't know, just a vibe I get - but I'm learning so I'm staying.  Remember the sitcom Frasier?  This site is loaded with Frasiers and Niles.....I'm Marty Crane.  Third, like the first - narrow audience is sought at least to me.  I'm always mystified how so many posts are cluttered with sources, references, quotes, and proof that isn't necessary.  I get hammered for "do you talk like that to people?" (yes, because posts/e-mails, etc steal the meaning and delivery of the spoken word) when I want to say to some post citing a 10th century dead guy backed up with a study from Wharton and printed in the Times....do you talk to people like that?   I don't get it - only academia talk/write that way.  I love the Frasier and Niles type of posting back-and-forths over minutia escalating higher and higher until inevitably things degrade into first doubts, then vague and obscure challenges and finally a testy retort that in PP parlance is akin to something between school kids saying uh-huh ... nuh-uh and an inner city beat down.  No, not going anywhere just yet.  Since Chris/Adam posted the question, I just began thinking how to make the site more to my liking.  Its his site, great site - but when asked I'll likely respond.  Thanks.

RJE's picture
RJE
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treemagnet, for a long time I

treemagnet, for a long time I had the dictionary and thesaurus opened and ready (still do as Chris has some serious verbiage at his disposal and uses his words comfortably), used often too just to get an understanding of what the hell was being said. So, it is true that on this site it is not for the faint at heart if you wish to read and move on. With all the $10 dollar handles I felt like I was reading and stuttering as I did. The speak is NOT for all audiences, frankly you have to be motivated for a different learning to stay here.

For me, it has always been the character of Chris that I remain, and I have come to feel the same for Adam as I have understood him. To trust someone is a rare compliment these days. A compliment that I stay.

Dogs in a pile, Jim H., safewrite, Travlin, Arthur and you are others I have come to appreciate and I personally connect to your styles. All of you are fair minded and stand your ground, and are appropriate when you do.

I am Black and White but live in the gray area only when necessary. I needed more balance, and recognized that, so I seek you and others out because I can relate. I want to relate. 

I say all of this because I know I needed to have you as part of my balance along with the others so it makes your choice to be here valid and valuable to me. I think that is what Chris with Adam are trying to achieve. So thank you for all of your perspectives, who you are is why I am here.

Overall, I do not fit here but I am not intimidated in the least. I come for education, and a greater sense so I am cool with that. Whether I add perspective to others is for the others to determine. My guess is if TSHTF moment arrives, and the good folks here witness something that I have said they should prepare for, and how they may have to deal with it then this would be valuable even if today they just can't see it. I know this, while growing up I hadn't a clue what my parents were saying to me about what to expect and how to handle certain situations. When faced with what I then (at present) recognized was their point it was invaluable. It is why I read everything. You for instance and appreciate every word.  

Regards

BOB

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Hey Marty!!!

treemagnet wrote:

Remember the sitcom Frasier?  This site is loaded with Frasiers and Niles.....I'm Marty Crane. 

treemagnet -

Did you ever notice how whenever Niles and Frasier had some "significant emotional event" and after they spewed their purple prose and displayed their 52 pound brains they ALWAYS went to Dad to talk it through and get things straightened out?

Besides, how can you not favor a scotch drinker over a wine snob?

A while back, there was a poster here who went by the name of Lakhota.  By his telling he was an Oglala Sioux living in Omaha.  He came across as very soft spoken and was extremely respectful in all of his posts.  Every now and then he would insert himself into one of the ongoing "Niles and Frasier" back and forths, and with just a few words would say more than the entire thread.

What am I trying to tell you?  There are a lot more Marty Cranes here on PP than you think.  Stick around and we'll find you.

jessie henshaw's picture
jessie henshaw
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Your values become your [trap]

Chris, Our most deeply rooted values have been for many centuries, and still are, largely abjout how to increase our control of nature... which... naturally leaves out how nature works uncontrolled.  

I'm totally shocked that hasn't occurred to you yet, as evident in the above.    We need to study how natural systems work **unattended** to learn how to design an economic system to be self-managing (like some of nature's unattended systems we admire and might immitate).  

That you're still omitting the need for us to change fundamental investment strategies is embarassing.  A mature self-managing economy naturally has a radically different self-investment strategy from that of a start-up system (i.e. which needs compound growth).  A mature self-managing system doesn't!!!    

When are you going to get on board??  When are you going to start asking me questions??

Jessie

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Let me quote C.S. Lewis

C.S. Lewis was an author from the last century . He was a contemporary and friend of J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings). Many of you have heard of Lewis because he wrote The Chronicles of Narnia, books that were made into movies, but he wrote much more. One of the more interesting things he wrote was a science fiction trilogy: Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength.

In the third and final book of the trilogy, there is a cabal attempting to change the world (and run it, of course). The main character, Mark, is a journalist who has been roped into working for them by flattery, bribes, lies, and eventually threats. He is asked to write post-riot editorials in advance of a comming riot they are engineering. And Mark is told to write one opinion-shaping editorial for the Left, and another for the Right. Why? He is given a startling insight: "It's absolutley essential to have a strong right and a strong left, hating each other. But the real powers is not (either one of them). It never is."

The real power is financial. Thinking people on the right and left can see that if government regulators are bought, they will not regulate. If politicians are bought, they will not govern in the people's interest - regardless of their political affiliation of supposed party platforms. And the heart of financial institutions' ability to buy whatever influnce they want is fiat currency coupled with debt-based fractional reserve banking. It has caused the exponential growth of economies that we've become used to, growth that is crashing down about our ears.

Dr. Martenson has found the actual chink in this dragon's armor, as it were. In his mission statement above he says,

Because of hard constraints, our exponential money and debt systems are on a collision course with reality.  We will first and most immediately -- and personally -- experience the deleterious effects of this in what we call 'the economy' in the form of stagnant growth, rising unemployment, and various ills and maladies within the financial markets.

He goes on to say, "Here at Peak Prosperity, we are solidly behind the idea of positive change made on our own terms and that we are each responsible for whatever future is created." Yes, some of that change may be political, but hard experience has taught us not to be part of the "strong right and strong left, hating each other" and play into the hands of The Powers That Be. So go ahead and start a thread about political things, but keep it civil and remember that the other side is not the enemy; they just see different solutions. One of the great values of this site is that as we continue to study the root causes of our crisis, we agree more and more on what the next steps are.

Anyhow, welcome.

eatkamloops.org's picture
eatkamloops.org
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Hi Friends, You state you

Hi Friends,

You state you want convert the mavens, connectors, and salespeople to your point-of-view which will effect the tipping point. I would suggest, very kindly, that that is just another story we tell ourselves. If we could just convince the people "in power" then everything would be okay. Maybe this belief makes us feel more powerful then we really are. People can do nothing about how much carbon is in the air, or if the glacers are melting, or some act of oppression half a world away, but people can do something about the way they live their lives and the choices they make on a day-to-day basis. The real power might actually be found in the household - the most basic economic unit - and controlled by the women that do most of the purchasing for the family. If you got women to stop and think about what they feed their children, we would make great progress.

I would ask you to consider the idea of having a great life which others would want to emulate. I see such joy in my life, I just want to share it with others. They can make their own decision if it is "right" for them. I really do trust my neighbours to do the "right" thing. Yes, I have been told I am an idealist, and that I am a "stupid-head" for believing in the rightousness of my neighours.

Here are some questions using Socratic method that helped this Mom change her household into something wonderful:

http://eatkamloops.org/what-if/

John Lemieux's picture
John Lemieux
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Preparing for Ecological Adulthood

For the past three years I have been following articals written by Paul Chefurka on his website called Approaching the Limits to Growth. He is an Ecologist from Ottawa Ontario Cananda.

I believe that he sums up our current predicament very wisely here:

"The crises of civilization is not simply a convergence of technical, environmental and orginizational problems. These are symtoms that are themselves being driven by philosophical and perceptual disconnection so deep that it is best understood as a spiritual breakdown. The disconnection goes by the name Separation.

Our sense of separartion is what allows us to see ourselves as different from and superior to the rest of the apparently non-rational universe we live in. In this worldview the complex mutual interdepenence of the elements of the universe is replaced by a simple dualistic categorization: there are human beings, and everything else in the universe-without exception-is a resource for us to use.

The only way to keep this planet, our one and only home in the universe from being ultimately ravaged and devestated is to change our worldview and heal our sense of separateness. Unless we can manage that breathtaking feat all careful application of technology, all well intentioned regulations, all the unbridled cleverness of which we are so proud will do little to delay the final outcome, and nothing whatever to prevent it. We need to find ways to heal that sense of separation, with the goal of helping us prepare for ecological adulthood."

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ALIHAYMEG
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Separation Anxiety

You are so very right John. There is another form of life that exploits its host with no regard for what it takes for that host to properly function; it's called a "VIRUS". We do need to finally reach "adulthood" as a species; and it must start with a change in our beliefs about the world. In early adolescence, and all the way to about age 25, the brain is still forming its primary connections. We are at our most egocentric during that transition phase from a child to an adult. Our "civilization" (and I use the term loosely) is also still in those early stages of transitioning from adolescence to adulthood. If you step back and look at the way we collectively act toward each other, how disconnected from our host that we are, and recognize that we are as destructive as a child left unattended then the need for maturity becomes clear.

Very nice John!

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Oliveoilguy
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A great life to emulate

eatkamloops.org wrote:

I would ask you to consider the idea of having a great life which others would want to emulate. I see such joy in my life, I just want to share it with others. They can make their own decision if it is "right" for them. 

What a great model. I also believe in starting relationships with trust, until people or institutions demonstrate that they can not be trusted any longer.

John Lemieux's picture
John Lemieux
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Worth Sharing

ALIHAYMEG,

I'm glad that Paul Chefurka's messge resonated positively with you. And I would encourage anyone who has viewed the Crash Course and and who cares about "Leaving a World Worth Inheriting" to visit his website. He  certainly does have a considerable understanding of the first "E", but the main purpose of his message is to educate others about energy and environmental issues. Nature truly does "bat last' and although I feel that this site does a great job of creating greater awareness about our economic and energy crises, it misses the biggest show stopper of all that is also at our doorstep. And that is the destruction of our natural resources and our once healthy natural environment. I would say that his message compliments books such as The Ascent of Humanity and the works of Carolyn Baker and others. And everything there is free to read and to share. 

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ALIHAYMEG
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Thanks John!

I'll definitely check into his work further.

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Damnthematrix
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ALIHAYMEG
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Posts: 22
Perspective

I understand your perspective Damnthematrix, but there is much more to the issue than jobs that may be lost. I'm sure that, if I were in that position, I'd be just as angry at the prospect of losing my job so close to retirement. Sometimes though, there are larger issues that have to be addressed in order to bring our methods into sustainable equilibrium with natural law. Here's a question: If you knew for certain that abandoning the use of coal and other fossil fuels for power production now would create a better future for your children, grandchildren, and all other future generations, would it not be worth the sacrifice?

Now, I realize that you are probably under the impression that all of the information regarding fossil fuel use and the environment is an exaggeration, but that is not even the end of the argument. Even if we are not affecting the environment negatively with our emissions (which is unlikely), supplies will still be peaking soon if they haven't already. There really is no choice but to try to develop other technologies to begin the transition to renewable sources. Even if it takes 100 years; 500 years, 1000 years we will eventually have to do this to survive. Is that so hard to accept? We have no choice. The fact that large oil & gas industry corporations have the monetary might to sway public opinion by throwing huge sums of money into misinformation campaigns is no reason to believe the propaganda.

What needs to happen is a plan to transition workers with those companies into new positions with the new ones that will take their place in the market. These things can be done in a way that makes sense and doesn't damage wellbeing in local communities where these fuels are produced; at least until we can start the transition away from the current system altogether. Insanity is doing the same things expecting different results.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Perspective ?

ALIHAYMEG wrote:

I understand your perspective Damnthematrix, but there is much more to the issue than jobs that may be lost.

It's not my perspective at all.......  I simply posted that because it was interesting!!  I think the whole jobs jobs jobs mantra is a fantasy.

ALIHAYMEG wrote:
Now, I realize that you are probably under the impression that all of the information regarding fossil fuel use and the environment is an exaggeration,

Hahahahaha!!!  YOU are new to this site, I've been here from the very start.....  I'm the LAST person to think "all of the information regarding fossil fuel use and the environment is an exaggeration".

ALIHAYMEG wrote:
but that is not even the end of the argument. Even if we are not affecting the environment negatively with our emissions (which is unlikely), supplies will still be peaking soon if they haven't already. There really is no choice but to try to develop other technologies to begin the transition to renewable sources. Even if it takes 100 years; 500 years, 1000 years we will eventually have to do this to survive. Is that so hard to accept?

I'm WAY ahead of you, I'm pretty sure......

http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/powering-up-for-the-collapse/

http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2012/08/18/earth-indicator-3%cf%83/

http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2011/09/04/the-power-of-energy-effici...

http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/busy-being-self-sufficient/

http://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/mon-abri/

And I could go on.............

Mike

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ALIHAYMEG
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 1 2010
Posts: 22
I Stand Corrected

...And gladly so.

It just seemed that you may be promoting ideas that you seem now to take the opposite stance on; very confusing.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
I Stand Corrected

ALIHAYMEG wrote:

...And gladly so.

It just seemed that you may be promoting ideas that you seem now to take the opposite stance on; very confusing.

OK, maybe I should have prefaced that post with a personal comment......  but I still find it fascinating that so many people still don't get it in the face of overwheling evidence.

It's easy for us clever ones to pontificate about what we have learned from CM, but there are other views out there, and just because we/you may not agree with them doesn't mean we shouldn't know about them...

Information is information, and it's always good to gain ever more insight.  Just because I post something here doesn't mean I'm "promoting" it!

Mike

ALIHAYMEG's picture
ALIHAYMEG
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 1 2010
Posts: 22
Damnthematrix

Damnthematrix wrote:

ALIHAYMEG wrote:

...And gladly so.

It just seemed that you may be promoting ideas that you seem now to take the opposite stance on; very confusing.

OK, maybe I should have prefaced that post with a personal comment......  but I still find it fascinating that so many people still don't get it in the face of overwheling evidence.

It's easy for us clever ones to pontificate about what we have learned from CM, but there are other views out there, and just because we/you may not agree with them doesn't mean we shouldn't know about them...

Information is information, and it's always good to gain ever more insight.  Just because I post something here doesn't mean I'm "promoting" it!

Mike

Got it. Oh yah...and I completely agree.

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